Bradley’s Buzz: Vazquez could be going, but I bet he stays
"We won't trade you unless the Norton-for-Pujols deal falls through." (AJC photo by Curtis Compton)
The well sourced Buster Olney of ESPN’s Insiders keeps hearing the Braves will trade their best pitcher. (Link requires registration.) Writes Mr. Olney:
“Some rival executives are convinced that Atlanta’s Javier Vazquez, who was arguably one of the four best pitchers in the National League this past season, will be traded in the weeks ahead. Vazquez will make $11.5 million next season before becoming eligible for free agency, so the Braves might be compelled to move him now to take advantage of his value. Atlanta needs a right-handed-hitting outfielder, and the other possible trade pieces on the Braves’ pitching staff — Derek Lowe (who is owed $45 million over the next three seasons) and Kenshin Kawakami (owed $13.3 million over the next two seasons) — do not generate much enthusiasm among some rival talent evaluators.”
If this line of reasoning sounds familiar … well, there’s a reason. We’ve been hearing it for six months. Heck, I broached the scenario in May, and I wasn’t just talking out of my Homburg. The possibility had been mentioned to me by a person within the organization in position to know how the Braves were thinking. But then something happened: Vazquez pitched great.
And now I wonder: Can you really trade your best pitcher and call yourself a franchise?
Re-signing Tim Hudson for three years might make Vazquez seem expendable, but look again. Vazquez is a year younger and is coming off a season better than any of the five Hudson has had as a Brave. And Vazquez hasn’t undergone arm surgery. On the contrary, he has averaged 200 innings over 12 big-league seasons.
And I understand the part about the Braves craving a right-handed-hitting outfielder. (Jason Heyward bats lefty, FYI.) I know they need a big bat in the worst way. But let’s think about that, too.
Loading ...A small-market team with a young slugger — say Arizona and Mark Reynolds, who isn’t an outfielder but who does bat righty and hit homers when not striking out — isn’t going to trade that guy for a 32-year-old pitcher who makes $11 million and is about to become a free agent. The trade suitor would have to be a big-market club in search of a starting pitcher to push it to the top. Like maybe the Dodgers.
If you can get Matt Kemp for Vazquez, you do it. Kemp fits the profile: He bats righty, plays center field and drove in 101 runs. But I can’t see the Dodgers giving up a 24-year-old cornerstone for a pitcher who might be a one-year rental. (There’s another Dodger who plays the outfield, bats right-handed and could be available. But he’s scheduled to make $20 million in 2010. So forget Manny Ramirez.)
I understand the consensus thinking: The Braves have six starting pitchers and lack a big bopper. Ergo, Vazquez is the bait. But I think it will be tough to make a proper match. The big boppers tend to make big money, and teams that have big boppers tend to keep them because they’re hard to find. If I had to guess, I’d say Javier Vazquez will be the Opening Day starter … for the Atlanta Braves.
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171 comments Add your comment
Joe Spooner Cocks
November 10th, 2009
1:58 am
I think you keep him at all costs. Guy is money and a hoss.
Richard Nieh
November 10th, 2009
2:41 am
Trading Vazquez could be meaningless, there are no suitable trade for him unless some GM is willing to give up their best (young) hitters, which is hardly possible. People keep moping about Braves’ offense but the thing is that they are really not that bad. They were one of the best hitting club in second half of the 2009 season and they will have Prodo and Mclouth (plus someone better than GA in the leftfield) starting for them in the beginning of the 2010 season. A right hand bat, yes, it will be helpful but it is not absolutely essential. I think Kawakami is the one who is most likely to be traded and keep the team about the same level as the second half of 2009 season.
By the way, I think Tommy Hanson may win CY next season and I cannot wait for it to happen. 2009 Giants ride on Lincencum to win 88 games, 2010 Braves will be better than the 2009 Giants in almost everyway (except bullpen once they lose Gonzales and Soriano) when Hanson produces Lincecum kind of season and I know it will happen.
Coach (2010-Mr.Overrated retires)
November 10th, 2009
2:44 am
Bradley, not to be a smart ass or anything but haven’t you forgotten about Javy’s no-trade clause to the west coast? It precludes the Dodgers and Diamondbacks.
If anything Vazquez is even tougher to trade than Derek Lowe. When considering his no-trade clause which effectively eliminates nine teams and two divisions, then our own NL east and four division rivals coupled with all the small market teams, and roughly 20-21 teams are out of the trade picture right from the get go.
Here is a better idea. The Angels.
They are one of the few big market teams capable of absorbing Derek Lowe’s bloated contract. Juan Rivera could part of the Braves solution in the outfield. He’s right handed, plays great defense, has decent power and is under contract for 9.5 million for 2010-2011 (10:$4.25M, 11:$5.25M). Throw in a couple of minor leaguers from the Angels system and it’s a done deal.
Pick up the Padres Luis Durango, maybe sign Mike Cameron for another 7-8 million for one season and presto, the outfield, defense and power problems are fixed.
Atlanta could start McLouth, Rivera and Cameron with Diaz on the bench, and still have Heyward, Schafer, Durango if needed down at AAA Gwinnett.
On second thought, this makes too much damn sense, so forget about it. Frank Wren will probably be forced to overpay for another bloated contract because he doesn’t have the chops to actually compete with the rest of his peers.
Ostrich Racer
November 10th, 2009
2:59 am
Solid analysis, as always. (Well, other than last week’s acid trip about putting Hanson in the bullpen.)
I am but a simple caveman; your world frightens and confuses me. But I know this: Vazquez #1, Hanson #2, Lowe should be closing.
Wren Hater
November 10th, 2009
6:30 am
If Javier Vazquez gets traded, the buffoon known Frank “Wrong Again” Wren should be fired and then have a pitchfork shoved up his rectum.
The Braves need MORE players & pitchers like Vazquez, NOT fewer.
FsuNoleInDC
November 10th, 2009
6:41 am
I think the one line says it all ” you don’t trade your best pitcher and call yourself a franchise” the braves need to stop making some of these foolish moves and keep their best pitcher. I’d rather trade Lowe if possible or kawakami….if they braves want to win, they are going to have to speand a little money.
dagnabit
November 10th, 2009
6:48 am
How can the Braves improve and get me back by trading their best pitcher. And who is Katt Williams.
Braves fan since 1956
November 10th, 2009
7:00 am
Whats the difference between a right handed hitter and a leftie if he hits 35 homers and drives in 100+ runs? Leave Diaz(who has earned it) in left, put Heyward in right. Keep your money and pitchers(you’ll have injuries).
F-105 Thunderchief
November 10th, 2009
7:16 am
It has to be a 100-rbi guy for Vazquez. Do you really wear a Homburg? Wonder how many people will read that and think it’s what you sit on?
ManiacBravesFan
November 10th, 2009
7:21 am
Trading Vazquez would be bad, this guy is really good and he wants to be near his family in PR so I would keep him and put Lowe or Kawamki on the trade block, Lowe definitely.
RHR
November 10th, 2009
7:23 am
Well I was hoping they’d keep him too but now that he’s been bitten by the Bradley jinx…..so long, Javy.
MitchC
November 10th, 2009
7:24 am
Mark, I really hope you’re right. As you know, I’ve posted on your blog for many months that I’m dead set against the Braves trading Vazquez. He’s still young, and he can help us next year, and hopefully for years to come.
So, you know I have to ask: If Vazquez stays, what do you think the Braves will do about the six starting pitchers? Or, do you think that Bobby would dare do what you suggested a bit back, and make Hanson the closer, thus eliminating the need for a closer?
MitchC
November 10th, 2009
7:26 am
What I meant to say is.. of course, thus eliminating the need to trade for, or sign another closer, if both Gonzo and Soriano are let go.
Just wanted to clarify so it makes sense. It’s early, lol
Marco
November 10th, 2009
7:32 am
Katt Williams is a 3-foot-1 comedian from Atlanta.
SWAT Native
November 10th, 2009
7:35 am
As Bobby says, just when you think you got too much pitching, go get some more.
Bobbito Heat
November 10th, 2009
7:36 am
Mark,
Sometimes you’re dead wrong, but sometimes you are spot on! (But you’re always entertaining!)
And this is one of those times where you are so MONEY! I could not agree more. He wants to stay here and his teammates and coaches want him. And the fans’ stomachs churn with even the thought of losing him.
Wren will do the right thing though. He’s earned our faith from last offseason’s reconstruction of the starting rotation. I really don’t want to believe that he would take that big of a step backwards with something he worked soooooooo hard to accomplish. He’s looking to build on it!
And if Lowe’s too hard to move. Then move Kawakami… that’s at least 7 million we would save on next year’s payroll. If you get something for him – Great… If not – then you get 7 million of salary space to apply towards a leftfielder/firstbaseman along with whatever else they’ll have.
BRAVES in 2010!!! Do it for Coxie!!!
RobertNAtl
November 10th, 2009
7:36 am
I think they’re going to trade either Vazquez or Jurrjens for a bat, and, of the two, I’d rather they trade Vazquez.
Kudzu
November 10th, 2009
7:41 am
Better be making plans for 3rd base…
Tim and Jim(aka 2 homo boys)
November 10th, 2009
7:45 am
Why trade Vazquez, The white Sox cut ties with Jermaine Dye,Yes we know he has played with the Braves before,he could help the Braves and give them the power they need.he could hit betweent Chipper and Big Mac.also keep in mind people keep mentioning trading Vazquez to the Angels or Padres, That is not gonna work as he has a no trade clause to West Coast teams.So keep him.move Lowe to the closer role or try Hudson at closer and let Gonzo and Soriano walk,another possibility is sign Mike Cameron or don’t even worry about a right handed power bat,A left handed power bat can also be just as beneficial as a right handed one.We don’t see what difference it makes whether a hitter bats left or right.
A left hander can hit with power the same as a right hander.If you have a chance to get a left handed power hitter that is good also because getting a power hitter is better than not getting one.The Braves have the pieces to make them better but you don’t trade them away.another possibility is Dan Uggla,dude can outright hitt anrd left/right got nothing to do with it.Get Uggla put him between Chipper and big Mac and there is your power bat.there are possibilites available to make the team better.Wren needs to forget this right handed power hitting thing and get a power hitter rather than saying we want a right handed one.
Also Braves need to resign Adam Laroche,he can also hit with power.
my husband and I know tht Freddi Gonzalez likes Jo JO Reyes a lot,so Wren needs to work a deal with florida for Uggla or Cody Ross.KJ,JOJO.plus a mid level prospect and a lower level prospect might work.Never know unless you try.talk to the Marlins you never know what might develop.nothing ventured = nothing gained.Bottom line is the Braves need to keep Vazquez.As far as trading within your own division my husband and I see nothing wrong with it.a lot of trades have worked out that were made within the same division.Wren and the Braves need to be flexible.
Bank Walker, Texas Ranger
November 10th, 2009
7:54 am
Nice title MB, thats like “Bank Walker could be dating ScarJo, but I bet he doesn’t.”
Bank Walker, Texas Ranger
November 10th, 2009
7:58 am
there are two sides hers: (1) if you think Javy was a one year wonder and will revert back to the way he has pitched every other year then you trade him because his trade value will never be higher or (2) if you think he just matured and turned the corner on pitching then he is top 5 in the NL, you will never get equal value so therefor you keep him.
Extremus
November 10th, 2009
8:00 am
In my experience one is never tempted to do the RIGHT thing; therefore my inclination is for the Braves to hold onto Vasquez. He’s earned another year in what could be the league’s best overall rotation next year.
That Norton for Pujols trade, on the other hand, does have its appeal…
Bank Walker, Texas Ranger
November 10th, 2009
8:07 am
thats funny (2:44) a platoon of Cameron Diaz. When did we trade for her and how can we trade up for Salma Hayek
rhynster
November 10th, 2009
8:11 am
Anyone who thinks that Vazquez will have another season like last year either…
A) has not looked at Vazquez’s career history
or…
B) believes in unicorns, leprechauns and the tooth fairy,
Vazquez is NOT a #1 or a #2 pitcher. He’s a #3 with last season being an aberration.
TROTTINGHOME
November 10th, 2009
8:11 am
Where’s Dave O’Brian?
Nativebird
November 10th, 2009
8:12 am
Not only keep Vasquez, but if you have to package TWO other starters (Lowe and Kawa) then do it for a big bat. Lowe is A BUST at the money. Plain and simply he cannot be counted on. Vasquez has proven, he IS money and is a pro on and off the field. Match with Huddy and Hanson and you’ve got the makings to put with an badly needed acquired OFFENSE.
Mike S
November 10th, 2009
8:15 am
Bottom Line – JUst as DEFENSE wins championships in football, PITCHING wins championships in baseball.
The Braves have the pitching. it wouldbe stupid to trade it away. Vasquez, Hudson, Jurrjens, Hanson is a championship staff. Trade Lowe or Kawakami and get what you can, the other remains as 5th starter. if a decent deal can’t be made, Kawakami becomes long relief and Lowe just adds to the strength of the rotation.
Another option, give Lowe a look at setup or closer.
Nice
November 10th, 2009
8:19 am
Yeah, hate on Wren. He only brought us Jair, LaRoche after JS cast him off, finally cut bait on Andruw, and Frenchy, and oh yeah, also brought in the article’s subject, Javy Vasquez. Getting rid of Javy with Hudson coming back from an arm rebuilding surgery, and Hanson less than half a year into his career. I mention the last because let’s not forget, Chuck James looked very good his first season and into his second and Kyle Davies was even okay in spots when he first got here. I’m not saying Hanson will devolve into either of those, but we need to give him a season to make sure he is what we think he is. Also, as an aside, do we really think we can afford to stick Diaz and his 300 plus annual average on the bench as a part time player? I mean every year but one he has torn the cover off of the ball, and let’s face it, someone has to get on base for the ‘big bopper’, whomever it may be, to drive in. I think Diaz plays left or right, wherever the ‘bopper’ is not and truthfully, we might end up with the bopper in center. Not a bad thing, given McClouth is basically a 260-270 hitter with minimal power.
Nice
November 10th, 2009
8:20 am
Meant to say that getting rid of Javy…would be a huge mistake.
Sonny Clusters
November 10th, 2009
8:27 am
They should trade Vazquez for a Clusters. We was definately not pitching as good as Vazquez but we was always much cheaper. The Braves could replace they pitcher Kawakami for a Clusters and it could be a Vazquez Clusters pitching duo, with Stinky Wintes behind home plate.
j
November 10th, 2009
8:30 am
We don’t need to trade him. Lowe is the worst in the league WHEN HE IS OFF (84 MPH fastball??) and Kawakami is simply not that good. We need to keep this guy and figure something else out. How about our cheap a$$ owners sell us to someone who gives a damn? Or maybe get rid of Frank Wren?
2010 in site
November 10th, 2009
8:30 am
They wont trade Jurrjens, hes part of our future sitting beside Hanson. Just think of a rotation of Vazquez, Hudson, Jurrjens, Hanson and KK. I think that Lowe is the one who should be traded. Those big money clubs would go for him. Especially if all they have to give up is prospects. Then we take the money and sign a couple of free agents to fill the void in the outfield.
The Braves have their rotation set and if they want to compete with the big clubs again, they are going to have to spend a little money to bring in a player or two who can get the job done. Chipper Jones is no longer that player. Bring a couple in who will pull the weight and put people in the seats. Everyone loves a slugfest and thats what we need to go with the pitching. You just dont tear apart something as sweet as a Vazquez, Hudson, Jurrjens, Hanson rotation. You just make yourself week when you give away your top pitcher.
j
November 10th, 2009
8:34 am
Nice,
I do understand what Wren has done but we should have been in the playoffs. We probably would have been if HE had brought Hanson up sooner. I could give a $h!t about all of those moves because I had to watch the POS Phillies go to the World Series again. I am also not satisfied with ending the season on a six game skid.
j
November 10th, 2009
8:39 am
Oh yeah…And the Scott Proctor deal? Correct me if I am wrong but I think we have enough bad relief pitching right now!
PMC
November 10th, 2009
8:41 am
Depends on what they can get in trade. If they can get a bonified slugger they can consider it. He will never have higher value than now.
I’m good with keeping him too because if he’s a back of the rotation starter and we can move Cowpajami and Lowe to the BP until someone inevitably gets injured that would be a tremendous rotation.
They still need to address what they will do at Cleanup and Leadoff.
Poorbrave
November 10th, 2009
8:46 am
I hope you are right and he is the starting pitcher Opening Day. Vazquez is #1 and loves playing in Atlanta and gets the job done.What else do you want in a pitcher. Yes, we need a big RH bat but thats nothing new? how many years now has that been? Need big relief pitcher also .
Need a new Manager also!
BRAVE CHEIF
November 10th, 2009
8:46 am
Yes,the Braves should trade him and throw in Chipper Jones in the deal!Afterall Vasquez was never really sucessful in any of his other stops with the exception of the Expo’s.The Yankees paid big free agent $’s for him and he was a wash…history shows that he will fail miserably this season….TRADE HIM WHILE THE VALUE IS HIGH!
jeffrey d
November 10th, 2009
8:49 am
People on these blogs talk like Javier Vazquez is the greatest pitcher in Braves history.
No! It would be stewpid to trad him because he’s awesomeee!
Here’s the thing(s):
1) He’s only had ONE great season to go along with his +4 career ERA
2) He’s approaching his mid-30’s
3) He’s only under contract for one more year
4) He’s got a ton of value
Why not trade him? We’ve got enough pitching. He’ll be gone after this year anyway. I know a lot of people seem to have a distorted sense of worth (”Hey I got an idea! How about we offer Derek Lowe and JoJo Reyes for Ryan Braun!”) but we won’t get much for Lowe or Kawakami.
MLH
November 10th, 2009
8:52 am
It is amazing how many ignorant people here are hating on Frank Wren. Do you people not remember the Braves record before he reconstructed the roster? Or do you people just not know anything about baseball?
MLH
November 10th, 2009
8:52 am
It is amazing how many ignorant people here are hating on Frank Wren. Do you people not remember the Braves record before he reconstructed the roster? Or do you people just not know anything about baseball?
Big Ten Sleeper
November 10th, 2009
8:56 am
trade him for calvin johnson
jeffrey d
November 10th, 2009
8:57 am
How about our cheap a$$ owners sell us to someone who gives a damn? Or maybe get rid of Frank Wren?
Those owners dish out nearly $100 million a year, in the middle of a recession mind you, which ranks among the top half of baseball payrolls.
And what on earth has Frank Wren done? Built a solid foundation that’s going to be competitive for many years? Yeah okay. Do you think at all before you post, or do you just dish out whatever’s on the top of your head?
Doug B
November 10th, 2009
8:59 am
DO NOT TRADE JAVY!!!
Reid Adair
November 10th, 2009
9:00 am
I don’t see how Frank Wren cannot move Javier Vazquez. The contracts that he gave Derek Lowe and Kenshin Kawakami a year ago make it virtually impossible to deal either one of them, and Wren has to find some money somewhere to deal with the offensive needs.
Besides, what on Earth do the Braves do with six starting pitchers (Vazquez, Kawakami, Lowe, Tim Hudson, Tommy Hanson and Jair Jurrjens) for an entire year in 2010? Wren got away with this for 2009 while Hudson was recovering from his injury, but he won’t have that for 2010 (unless somethign disastrous happens).
J-man
November 10th, 2009
9:02 am
The owners have a hard salary cap on the team. It’s a lot higher than many teams, but it’s not as high as others (ie. Mets, Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, Angels and Dodgers to name a few). Simply put, this is all about money and nothing else. Lowe isn’t really tradeable because of his costly contract. Jurgens, Hanson and Hudson will be kept. That leaves Vazquez and Kawakami. Vazquez is gone. Why? The front office will conclude that they can’t afford to re-sign him (probably he’s looking at Lowe type money if he has a good 2010) so they might as well trade him since Kawakami is cheaper to keep and has 2 years left.
Reid Adair
November 10th, 2009
9:04 am
“Those owners dish out nearly $100 million a year, in the middle of a recession mind you, which ranks among the top half of baseball payrolls.”
Those same owners CUT payroll from 2008 ($102,365,683) to 2009 ($96,726,166). I wouldn’t be surprised to see them tell Wren to cut some more for 2010.
While the Braves reduced payroll from 2008 to 2009, the Phillies increased their payroll by almmost $15 million.
For 2009, the Braves were 11th in payroll. It wasn’t that long ago that they were in the top five. Clearly, what you spend is a factor in success.
tbhawksfan
November 10th, 2009
9:08 am
Seems like we had a pretty good team last season. Seems like next season looks good too. A couple of lesser moves could do it.
KEEP VASQUEZ
Vasq / JJ / Hanson / Hudson /
Kawa or Lowe can keep both with one moving to the pen or trade one or both of them. The rotation will still be excellent.
Sign LaRoche. He puts up good numbers, plays great D and fits in well. Can’t wait for Freeman and can’t already count on him to do anything in the next two seasons.
Sign an OF that can hit with some power and hopefully play some D.
If the right deal comes along for a nice offensive prospect, you let Lowe or KK go in a second.
Heyward is on the way and we have a few others ready to contribute.
Extremus
November 10th, 2009
9:11 am
I admit Frank Wren didn’t win any extra fans for his handling of how Smoltz and Glavine were released (although I do understand the need for younger, more dependable arms). But over the past year I’ve seen the Braves franchise take some lumps and learn a few valuable lessons (such as the need to hold on to top prospects; let’s hope we’ve seen our last deal where we singlehandedly restock half of another team’s lineup with top-tier prospects like we did the Texas Rangers). I hope we’re able to have an efficiently-run offseason where we get a whole lot more in return for what we give up. I want to see Bobby Cox go out with one more World Series ring.
I think now that the biggest obstacle to the Braves’ return to title contention is the nebulous, distant ownership of the Liberty Media corporation. Anyone out there working for a corporation over the past few years knows well that the employees, the customers (in Liberty’s case, the Atlanta fans), and everything else come a distant second to profit margins (can I get a witness?). We need a human owner who has a genuine passion for the game, the city, and the fans; no corporation has or ever will have any of those qualities. Say what you will about the Yankees (yes, I hate them as much as you guys do), but no one can fault the willingness of their ownership for putting forth the effort and money (however ridiculous) to get a championship product on the field.
raleighbravefan
November 10th, 2009
9:16 am
Frank Wren has done pretty well so far with what he has had to work with. He DID bring in Vasquez, and he refused to give in to the demands for Pevey, thank goodness. What would you have done that would have made the braves more competetive? Don’t give me the off-the-wall fantacy trades most of you suggest, because the other teams would never consider most of your suggestions in a million years. They are trying to make their teams better as well, and they are not stupid.
rhynster
November 10th, 2009
9:16 am
I’m constantly amazed at the people who think it’s so obvious to trade Lowe or Kawakami.
Honestly, I don’t even know if you could trade either of them for a bag of bats.
Your only tradeable pitchers are Jurrgens, Hanson and Vazquez.
So, isn’t Vazquez the obvious choice?
jndn
November 10th, 2009
9:17 am
Frank Wren made good by putting together a solid rotation. Why would he regress now? C’os make no mistake about it, trading Vazquez would be regression. The last thing Wren needs is the wrath of the fans. Again, trade the pieces that don’t fit, not the the ones that do!
Boston Braves
November 10th, 2009
9:19 am
How about the Braves pulling a fast one on Hudson? Now that he is signed to a “Hometown Discount”, trade him, he might be attractive to someone at the price? Remember the Bravos do not give “No trade” clauses. Discuss amongst yourselves.
Paddy
November 10th, 2009
9:20 am
Like Gabe Paul used to say, “build on your strenght”. We have good pitching so lets get some more good pitching. Thats when all the teams will start coming to you. Easy to say but it takes guts as a GM to do it. Gabe and Birdie Tebbetts where the 2 smartest baseball people of their time and they both worked for the Yankees. Too bad they had to run everything past Stienbrenner III.
WilliamG
November 10th, 2009
9:25 am
Obviously you don’t want to trade him. But then along comes reality. Like you said, there isn’t a real demand for KK or Lowe. And there is not an unlimited budget. Add in the fact that there can be no real argument that we need hitting. I wouldn’t like to be in management’s shoes on this one – there is not a perfect answer. Again, I’m against trading him – it’s just that it is easy to see why his name would come up and have to be seriously considered.
Smack
November 10th, 2009
9:27 am
Mark, why do you keep forgetting Javy’s no trade clause to a NL West or AL West team? That is the only 2 scenarios you put into this article. Do your homework before writing such things next time ok?
Fischerking04
November 10th, 2009
9:33 am
After saying that perhaps Hanson should be the closer I think it may be time to take a break from predicting what should happen.
King Donko of Punchstania
November 10th, 2009
9:34 am
If the Braves don’t get Carl Crawford, they will have wasted yet another off-season.
King Donko of Punchstania
November 10th, 2009
9:39 am
More and more it’s looking like the key move this off-season will be a the sign and trade of Greg Norton for some new overseed for the infield. Lord knows it really needs it where he wore the grass down walking back and forth between the batter’s box and the dugout.
raleighbravefan
November 10th, 2009
9:40 am
They hardly “wasted another off season” this past year. They rebuilt the pitching staff. I say give Wren and the organization a chance. They are deffinitely headed in the right direction. They do have to work with what they have, including budget restraint.
Fischerking04
November 10th, 2009
9:40 am
Vazquez had the best season of his career…and he’s played quite a few seasons. Chances of him repeating this year’s performance are not very good. Sell high. Which is the reaon that you don’t trade Lowe (even though that would’ve been hard anyway). Lowe had an uncharacteristically bad year. So chances are both of these guys will move closer to their career averages next season.
BALLPLAYER1179
November 10th, 2009
9:45 am
THIS IS YOUR 2010 ATLANTA BRAVES:
Your pitching staff is going to look like this next year:
#1 Vasquez
#2 Hudson
#3 Jair
#4 Hanson
#5 KK
Closer: Lowe (he has done it before)
Get Dye for your power right handed bat to replace GA so your line up will look like this:
1.McCloth CF
2.Prado 2B
3.Chipper 3B
4.Dye RF or LF
5.Mac C
6.Yunel
7.Roachy
8.Diaz
9.Pitcher
raleighbravefan
November 10th, 2009
9:49 am
Fischerking – You may be right on both counts. Time will tell. However, Vazquez is an asset in many ways (not the least of which is his influence in the clubhouse on JJ, Esco, etc.). I would hate to see him go. However, Wren must make the choice that he believes will strengthen the club to the max amoung the choices he has.
bvillebaron
November 10th, 2009
9:54 am
fisherking, jeffreyd:
Right on guys. This drivel about Vazquez being the Braves’ BEST pitcher is absurd. No question the guy pitched great last year, but your points are valid, principally the fact that there is NOTHING in his history that suggests a repeat of last year. Couple that with the fact that he will earn $11.5 this year, becomes a free agent after 2010 and now is the time to move him.
Nick C
November 10th, 2009
9:57 am
I think Frankie has a few options. If you can’t work out an extension with Javy this winter, I would try and use him as leverage to see what you get. If the deals includes a lot of talented propects and a decent OF I would take it. I covet the pitching Javy had in ‘09, but like the person above said, history shows he won’t have another strong season in ‘10. Even if he does, the Yanks or Boston will try and get him next year when he hits free agency. So why not at least look for something while his value is up.
Trading Lowe will be the problem, along with his $45MM contract and low “lowe” numbers in ‘09. More than likely Derek will bounce back and have a decent ‘10 season, but in this economy only a big market club will want to trade for him. If we can get a decent return without having to absorb most of his salary I say do it, otherwise it would be stupid to trade him as well.
As for heyward, Frankie is right in the regard to keep him in the minors and get more seasoning. I know ppl said he should have brought Hanson up sooner, but how do you know he would have done well from the start, it worked out well for both sides.
I see a lot of Frankie haters on here. I too was not a fan of Wren, but have to appreciate what he is doing for the club. He is trading/signing players to make the club better, without giving up top talent. The Tex trade (by Johnnie S) depleted our farm system, and gave Texas like 5 current major leaguers. Wren gave up one top talent (hernandez) in a crowded position to get McLouth. Even the Lowe signing can be overlooked because the Braves desperately needed a top tier pitcher last winter, and he was the only one left. Granted he didn’t have a great year last year, but still has 3 more years to prove his worth. So I say, leave Frankie be for now, see where potential deals are, and go from there. Keep in mind, we only need an OF for a few months until Jay-Hay comes up.
Here’s what I think Frankie should do.
1) Sign Laroche to a 1 year deal with club option for 2011 ($9.75M)
2) Sign Mike Gonzo to a 2 year $9.3MM deal
3) Do not Trade any of the starting pitchers and move KK to the bullpen for now.
4) Sign Mike Cameron to a 1 year deal.
My Braves 2010 Lineup:
1) Schafer/McClouth – CF
Diaz/Cameron – RF
2) Prado – 2B
3) C Jones – 3B
4) McCann – C
5) LaRoche – 1B
6) Escobar – SS
7) Cameron/McClouth – LF
9) Pitcher
Rotation:
1) Vazquez
2) Jurrjens
3) Hanson
4) Hudson
5) Lowe
6) KK (spot starter/long reliever)
abudefdef
November 10th, 2009
9:57 am
I hope Wren can move Lowe and re-sign Javy
Rotation of:
Vazquez, JJ, Hanson, Hudson, KK = BEST in MLB
raleighbravefan
November 10th, 2009
9:58 am
bville – Point well made. I would be tempted to try someone in closer role. KK or Lowe.
Paddy
November 10th, 2009
9:58 am
We all new it was coming. Greg Norton filed for free agency. The price will now be thru the roof to sign him to solve our right field problems. If we had only acted quicker. Damn Yankees will for sure sighn him now. Another WS ring for Norton.
Get a PROVEN Closer
November 10th, 2009
10:02 am
John Smoltz for BRAVES CLOSER in 2010 !!!!
Problem?
Solved.
FOXNOISE.NET
November 10th, 2009
10:07 am
After what happened with Teixeira I thought we were past the one year rentals. Remember, we traded Lillibridge and Flowers to Javy.
Gravy Train
November 10th, 2009
10:07 am
Keep Javier. He’s maybe the only reliable inning eater on staff. Sign Vlad away from the Angels. He hits for average and power, without batting gloves!
Bill from VA
November 10th, 2009
10:08 am
I will be very disappointed if the Braves trade Vasquez. He likes being in Atlanta and I always like keeping a player who wants to stay put, especially if that player’s one of the best at his position in the MLB! Why is that so hard to figure out!!!
FOXNOISE.NET
November 10th, 2009
10:10 am
What if we traded Lowe and Kawakami for some nice bats and gave Kris Medlen a shot at the fifth slot in the rotation?
King Donko of Punchstania
November 10th, 2009
10:13 am
I can already see the AJC headlines out of the MLB winter meetings…”Atlanta Braves hire Bradley’s Buzz comment board as GM for 2010 season.” You guys are fast on your way of bringing the Braves back to the playoffs. Keep up those strong roster moves! Next year is really looking up!
Mark Bradley
November 10th, 2009
10:14 am
If you thought Francoeur swung at everything, wait till you see Vladimir Guerrero.
PMC
November 10th, 2009
10:16 am
yeah the difference is that Vlad actually makes good contact. Vlad is more like Matt Diaz than Francouer. Vlad and Matty probably get more hits of bad balls than good ones.
King Donko of Punchstania
November 10th, 2009
10:19 am
Guerrero has been to the All-Star game without having to buy a ticket
hawesg
November 10th, 2009
10:28 am
I’m not sure I’ve ever agreed with Mr. Bradley’s baseball writing until today. Spot on.
mgar
November 10th, 2009
10:30 am
Just my thought Bradley, Why not save the money on Mike Gonzalez or Soriano and try Hudson out in the closer role. He has closer stuff with alot of sinking action and I think he has the mentality. If it doesn’t work move in Moylan and make a move from there. By then we see how Kawakami and Javy are looking and decide if we need to trade.
Don
November 10th, 2009
10:30 am
The Braves should remember that (like always) the only chance they have of winning with Cox managing is to have Pitching so far far superior to the other teams in the Division that it makes it almost impossible to lose during the long 162 game schedule – Pitching that enables you to win in spite of him and his mnagemement procedures and lack thereof.
It is also likely that one or more pitchers will go down to injury or will not be effecive
Don
November 10th, 2009
10:35 am
It is unbelievable that someone could manage for over 20 years and not understand the absolute necessity to teach/ emphasize/ demand – your hitters work the count, be selective, make the pitcher throw some pitches – if you are going to have consistant run production.
ArkyTech
November 10th, 2009
10:37 am
Um, Mark, pretty sure Vazquez has a west coast no-trade clause. That would rule out the Dodgers.
Mark Bradley
November 10th, 2009
10:39 am
I would never underestimate the baseball knowledge of AJC.com readers, King Donko. The folks here know their stuff.
Mark Bradley
November 10th, 2009
10:41 am
According to DOB, Vazquez has the no-trade-to-the-West-Coast clause, but he can waive it if he likes the deal. (Vazquez, I mean — not DOB.)
EW
November 10th, 2009
10:44 am
Hopefully Wren will try to revert to the 90’s style of Braves baseball and keep Vasquez. We have seen how it worked out last time we tried to bring in a big bat rental (TEX). We gave up way too much for too little in return. We need Javy and he’s earned his place here. I especially like having Javy, D Lowe, and Hudson mentoring the likes of Jurjens, Hanson, and KK.
raleighbravefan
November 10th, 2009
10:49 am
Difference between Javy and Tex – We got nothing but a draft pick for Tex – truly a rental. We got a great year out of Javy, and if we do trade him, we should get value in return. Definitely apples and oranges. (Tex was JS, not Wren, btw)
chemdawg
November 10th, 2009
10:50 am
Wait until the regular season. If all arms are healthy, some other playoff bound team will get desperate for a proven #1.
Don
November 10th, 2009
10:55 am
When you think about it — In 14 opportunities, it would be difficult to win only one WS – even if you were trying not to win — especilly with the pitching that the Braves had. This says it all relating to Cox’s management skills – when you don’t have the long 162 game schedule to make it impossible to lose with your great pitching.
EW
November 10th, 2009
10:55 am
raleigh, I think maybe I didn’t make my point..I meant we gave up way too much to GET Tex. Agreed that we didn’t get the value back when he left like we should if we move Javy. I guess we lost on both ends of the TEX deal. Either way, Javy should stay. Give me some help in the bullpen and a DISCIPLINED hitter with decent power and I’ll be happy. I really felt like we did ourselves a disservice with the whole Moylan, Soriano, Gonzalez rotation. If those are the only guys we’re gonna use then there is either an issue in management or a lack of ability from the other guys. We saw this as the season progressed and those arms wore down.
raleighbravefan
November 10th, 2009
10:59 am
Don – What in H*** will you talk about after next year. You cannot say BC only won 14 yrs. because of talent. Look at Yankees, 9 years between titles in spite of unlimited budget, and all stars at every position. I am sick of BC and Wren haters ranting.
raleighbravefan
November 10th, 2009
11:01 am
EW – I agree on all points.
EW
November 10th, 2009
11:02 am
Don…good point. I actually heard that issue addressed on a talk radio show recently. The point was that some teams are built to win over the 162 game season (like the braves in the 90’s) and some teams are built to win in the postseason (Like this year’s Yankees…lights out #1 and #2 starters and tons of power if the pitching fails). The best idea is to find a mix of the two, consistent pitching and enough power to win the 10-8 kind of games. The Braves had the pitching, but didn’t find that balance with the offense in the 90’s. Cox definitely didn’t make all the right moves in the postseason, but he also was working with a group of players built to win over the long haul. Not really an excuse, just food for thought.
Just Me
November 10th, 2009
11:05 am
I don’t see how the Braves can keep Javy. Yes, he had a great year last year but he is the ONLY Braves starting pitcher who could bring the Braves a power hitting right handed LF. Lowe makes to much money to get anything in return. KK had a very good year last year and doesn’t have a ridiculous contract but he wouldn’t bring back as much as Vazquez either.
I think the Braves should look at Vazquez as an investment. They traded one elite prospect to get him. They had him one year and he had a tremendous season, thus increasing his value. Therefore, they could probably trade him for two elite prospects or one young power hitting LF.
If the Braves don’t trade one of Vazquez or Lowe, they have no chance at improving their anemic offense from last year.
MiltonDawg
November 10th, 2009
11:10 am
Braves would be nuts to trade Vasquez. It has to be Lowe or KK. I agree the idea of moving KK to closer would be a better deal. Keep Soriano, drop Gonzo.
jayvee
November 10th, 2009
11:15 am
Watching Javy pitch this year was a highlight. The guy is a master craftsman and a joy to watch. He’s got multiple great pitches. He doesn’t give in. With any kind of run support, he’d have been in the mix for the Cy Young Award. I’d love to see him stay rather than go work his magic for somebody else. But alas, since Ted Turner left, the Braves have seldom had the luxury of doing the right thing.
PN
November 10th, 2009
11:16 am
This article is very, very shortsighted. The problem is that while Vazquez was tremendous for us in 2009, look back at his career. I am not and have not looked at it recently, but this is a veteran guy who has a history of “man he is on the brink of breaking out”. Well, the problem is, you don’t break out at the end of a career. He had a fluke season and the Braves would be wise to capitalize on it. And no, no one will offer Matt Kemp for him, but the fact is we DO have 6 SP’s, and while I would rather trade Lowe and his stupid contract, the reality is if we offer a team Lowe they’ll inquire about Vazquez, especially if it’s a team with short-term SP needs. This article misses the point of the whole trade Vazquez belief. It is no slap in his face, it is not solely that we have surplus SPs, it is that Vazquez had a MAJOR outlier season, and outlier seasons in the face of a long career are not trends, they are outlier seasons.
bry22
November 10th, 2009
11:28 am
I do not believe he can be traded to any west coast team from either league. No trade clause of some sort.
bob
November 10th, 2009
11:32 am
The Braves have the money to keep the pitchers and add a bat.
1. Hudson will be at 9 mil a year not 15 mil like last year. A savings of 6 mil a year.
2. Anderson and Soriano will be gone saving another 8 mil a year.
Braves should
1. Negotiate a three year deal with Vasquez at 10 mil a year. If no extension then trade him.
2. Deal Lowe and absord some of the salary. After all, he was signed to quell the rebellion when the Smoltz, Glavine and Furcal deals happened last year. Braves overpaid and barring any TARP monies from DC should eat 6 mil a year on the overpaid guy….yet freeing up another 9 mil a year.
3. Keep KK. He pitched some great games last year in his first year here. He can be a decent number 5 starter.
Mr. Thomas Anrhony "The taxman Cometh" Jones, SR (Waf-SS, ret)
November 10th, 2009
11:33 am
The Atlanta Braves would be fools to fools to trade Senor Javier Vazquez. He is the best pitcher on the team. Derek lowe and Tim Hudson are both older and vastly over-rated. Derek Lowe’s ERA expanded as he 2009 season progressed. Tim Hudson was also injured in 2009. And Hudson is part of that old Oakland Athletics trio of pitcher that has faded as the years path. I dare the stupid Atlanta Braves to trade their best pitcher. The New York yankees are the 2009 World Series Champions. The Philadelphia Philles are the 2009 National Leaugue Eastern Division and League Champions. The Florida Marlins beat out the Braves in the season series and the Washington Nationals swept the pitiful Braves in the season ending series. The New York Mets luck will improve in 2010. The Atlanta Braves would be stupid fools to trade Senor Javier Zazquez, the best pitcher by a mile. All Hail Senor Javier Vazquez!!!!!
Jeff R
November 10th, 2009
11:36 am
Agree with Mark entirely. I believe Vazquez is coming into his own as a Brave. Of course, I’d hate to see him post solid numbers in 2010 and then skip town for greener pastures. Wren needs to sew him up for a few more years.
If Wren decides to move Vazquez, I think the play is to acquire a couple of major league ready top prospects (one, a power bat; the other pitcher, if feasible).
BravesLefty
November 10th, 2009
11:37 am
Vazquez helped JJ all year become better and more confident according to JJ and Chipper. Renegotiate Vazquez contract for 2 year- 8 mil a year with option for 3rd year.
Hudson, Vazquez, JJ, Hanson- consistant, work deep in games, innings eaters,almost always gives their team a chance to win.
Trade Lowe- for good bullpen help- free up 15 mil for 3 years to be spent on Free Agent OF or
Trade KK- for bullpen help- he is inconsistant at best- free up 7 mil a year.
No team will trade big power hitter for Lowe,KK or Vazquez for 1 year rental
Resign LaRoche for 2 year to let Freeman mature.