With Hudson back, should Hanson become a closer?
He started as a starter. Then he became a championship closer.
I’m just throwing it out there, OK? So don’t all scream at once. (If you do choose to scream, please take turns.) So here goes:
With the re-signing of Tim Hudson, the Braves have six starting pitchers under contract for 2010. The baseball truism holds that a team can never have too much pitching, but this one just might. The obvious solution would be to make Kenshin Kawakami a reliever, except for a couple of things: He makes too much money (around $8 million) to slot into middle relief and he generates too many baserunners to close. So …. what about this?
Tommy Hanson as closer.
I know, I know. Would any organization in its right mind redeploy its best pitching prospect in a generation so soon? And the answer would ordinarily be a resounding “Heck, no!’ Except that one organization has done pretty well with a redeployed starter as its closer.
The organization: The Boston Red Sox. The starter-turned-closer: Jonathan Papelbon.
Papelbon worked in 58 minor-league games, starting 48 of them. But then the Red Sox needed a closer to replace Keith Foulke and he got reassigned. And he has been, in the main, great — 151 saves over four seasons.
Loading ...Think of it this way: The Braves have roughly $68 million sunk into nine players (the six starting pitchers plus Chipper Jones, Brian McCann and Nate McLouth). Their payroll last season was $96 million. So that leaves $38 million to spend on 16 roster spots, and the Braves at the moment have no first baseman — Adam LaRoche is a free agent — no proven corner outfielder (Jason Heyward looks good but hasn’t yet had a big-league at-bat) and no closer.
Rather than spend $5 million to re-up Rafael Soriano or Mike Gonzalez, neither of whom is among the game’s 10 best relievers, or spend even more on someone who is among the 10 best, mightn’t it be prudent, both philosophically and fiscally, to give Hanson a look? He has the stuff to do it, and he has the temperament.
OK, OK. I hear you. I’m not saying I’d do it, either. But I’d give it some thought. Because the Braves are going to have to pay big to get the big bat they lacked this summer, and a penny saved is a penny to spend elsewhere. (Get it? Saved? As in relief pitching?)
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310 comments Add your comment
MightyQuinn
November 5th, 2009
4:53 pm
Could it be that I’m……..
MightyQuinn
November 5th, 2009
4:54 pm
First! Woohoo!
don pardo
November 5th, 2009
4:54 pm
I actually think it’s a good idea.
Trey
November 5th, 2009
4:54 pm
No, Tommy should stay a starter.
Skeezix
November 5th, 2009
4:55 pm
Mark: I must say I am not keen on this idea, although he would be a helluva closer.
Trey
November 5th, 2009
4:55 pm
MightQuinn grow up, no one cares if you are first, that has nothing to do with the topic dummy.
MattyB
November 5th, 2009
4:56 pm
I hear where you’re coming from, but I think that’s a sure-fire way to ruin a great starting pitcher that could be valuable for years to come. One thing’s for sure, though. The Braves are going to make some unorthodox moves this offseason.
MightyQuinn
November 5th, 2009
4:58 pm
Trey: Sniff, sniff, my feelings are hurt…….Bwah-ha-ha!
Doc
November 5th, 2009
5:00 pm
I am totally confused. How can you follow a tremendous article on Coach Paul Johnson with such an assinine idea?
Tommy Hanson was the most reliable starter last year in the second half(though you could also argue Vazquez). The Braves need his youth in the rotation with all the other starters over 30. My fear would be an identity crisis a la Joba Chamberlain rather than a success story of Papelbon. The risk in your scenario above does not outweigh the reward.
Mark Bradley
November 5th, 2009
5:00 pm
The Mighty Quinn wins the marvelous prize! (Now all we need to do is decide what our marvelous prize is.)
DP
November 5th, 2009
5:02 pm
Closer is the most overrated position in baseball. Hanson as a starter will pitch 200+ innings if he’s healthy. As a closer he might pitch 75 innings, which leaves 125 innings or more to be filled by lesser pitchers.
It also doesn’t make sense because Hanson has the stuff to go through a lineup 3 times. A much lesser pitcher who throws gas and one other pitch can get the job done as a closer because hitters will only see him once in a game.
MightyQuinn
November 5th, 2009
5:02 pm
I have, however, noted Tommy’s unorthodox-appearing delivery(Anybody besides me look at it and think “Kerry Wood”?) and worried about durability over a career (see Kerry Wood). Moving to the pen to close could save a lot of wear and tear on the arm. That being said, I wouldn’t do it yet.
Frank Robinson (Rockmart)
November 5th, 2009
5:04 pm
Hell.No. But Medlen on the ohter hand…
Mc21
November 5th, 2009
5:04 pm
Why would you take your most dominant starter and put him in the bullpen? Give me 200+ innings and 35 starts over some saves. Hanson has four big league pitches and an incredible amount of confidence in his abilities. We finally develop a pitcher that can be an ace in the major leagues and you want to move him to the bullpen?
ArkyTech
November 5th, 2009
5:04 pm
Difference is Hanson is already a proven ML starter. Papelbon never was. You could make a better argument for Vazquez as closer with his strikeout totals and the fact that the Braves don’t have a long term interest with him.
Jay
November 5th, 2009
5:05 pm
Running out of ideas to meet your weekly blog quota, I see.
Mark Bradley
November 5th, 2009
5:05 pm
I disagree. Closer is not an overrated position. It’s especially not overrated if you don’t have one.
MightyQuinn
November 5th, 2009
5:07 pm
Just being mentioned by the future Pulitzer Prize winning columnist Mark Bradley is prize enough for anyone!
Colonial Dawg
November 5th, 2009
5:07 pm
Enter your comments here
Colonial Dawg
November 5th, 2009
5:07 pm
No, I didn’t forget….that WAS my comment!
We Need Him Too Badly in the Rotation
November 5th, 2009
5:07 pm
Hanson can pitch a lot of innings and is very difficult to hit. He and Jair are a dangerous 1-2 punch in our rotation.
I’d be more amenable to any of the other four back there than Hanson.
Herschel Talker
November 5th, 2009
5:07 pm
No, this is a terrible idea. Almost as bad and idea as keeping Booby the manager or Richt the coach of the Dawgs.
Smack
November 5th, 2009
5:08 pm
No no no. Unlike Paps, he has already proven himself a dominant front end starter and the likes of him do not come around often. I actually would be a bit ticked off if he isn’t slotted as the #1 or #2 next year. Also, Mark look back at KK’s contract, he will make less the next 2 years than he did this year. It was front loaded. While overpaid, he would be the one to send to the pen if we hold the other 5 going into next season. Either that or at least consider a 6 man rotation, that’s a whole other can of worms…
cricket
November 5th, 2009
5:08 pm
I usually like your work but this is completely insane..
We Need Him Too Badly in the Rotation
November 5th, 2009
5:08 pm
I also agree that Medlen, if he continues to improve, could nicely fill that slot. Perhaps not right now, but at some point
Kurdt Kobain
November 5th, 2009
5:09 pm
So Matt Ryan is overrated and Tommy Hanson should close… Are you feeling okay, Mark? I liked the Paul Johnson article. This is insane. Hanson’s way too valuable as a starter to put in the pen. I’d move probably every other starter to the pen before I’d move Hanson there.
Besides, he’s so fun to watch, I’d hate to only see him one inning at a time every few days.
MightyQuinn
November 5th, 2009
5:10 pm
Interesting idea, there, ArkyTech. Kind of like when we put Smoltzie in there.
Eric C.
November 5th, 2009
5:10 pm
Ummm…no.
Don
November 5th, 2009
5:11 pm
No
Einstein
November 5th, 2009
5:11 pm
Cynthia, I mean Mike…have you lost your mind? Tommy should be our #2 starter behind JJ, and I would trade Vasquez, because he just can’t seem to put two good seasons together, and the Braves can get a lot for him. Don’t sign Mike or Sorryano…both are overpaid and overrated and underperform in the clutch. I would work on getting Medlin in shape as the closer. Justmy opinion. Peace.
Kelly Johnson Fan Club
November 5th, 2009
5:11 pm
I’d rather use Kawakami as the closer than Hanson. It’s not the worst idea I’ve ever heard, though. Closers are overrated, anyway. I’d rather have 5 solid starters and a bad bullpen.
Freddie G
November 5th, 2009
5:11 pm
Mark,
What a crazy idea. Could you not come up with a better subject for this debate. Why would the Braves do that to such a promising young starting Pitcher?
Ken Stallings
November 5th, 2009
5:13 pm
You reveal little appreciation for baseball, Mark Bradley. Hanson has proven he can excel as a starting pitcher. You never then rotate such a player to the bullpen. There are too many quality pitchers out there who cannot start, but who can pitch in relief.
It is vastly more difficult to find quality starting pitching than to find bullpen relief, even closers.
Your answer is obvious — no!
The Braves have already signed one veteran who may come off Tommy John surgery well. There will be others available.
The Braves need to spend about $12 million dollars above last season to secure the two big bats it needs to compete for a World Series. Either the team pays it, or we stay mired outside the playoffs.
Braves Fan in Dawg Country
November 5th, 2009
5:14 pm
I wouldn’t make Hanson the closer, but I would consider it with Javier Vazquez. He is a veteran and a strikeout pitcher. It would be nice to be able to get a strikeout when needed in the 9th.
ATL DAWG
November 5th, 2009
5:15 pm
Well Hmm…. The Braves never want to spend money on any free agents that will help the cause always getting players at the end of their careers. I’m really sick of the Braves and Bobby Cox if u ask me.. Oh the question about Hanson he was about the best pitcher they had besides J.J
Dan
November 5th, 2009
5:18 pm
While this is an intersting option, I believe that keeping Tommy Hanson as a starter makes more sense as he has already proven to be a very solid starter. I would suggest that the Braves would be better off to use Derek Lowe and Peter Moylan as their primary relievers. Thoughts???
singndablues
November 5th, 2009
5:18 pm
Throwing darts at the old idea board again eh…………………
Dawgs and Braves
November 5th, 2009
5:18 pm
Having young cheap dominant starting pitching is the most valuable thing in the game. You want to throw that away? It is almost as insane as trading JJ. With those two guys you have a great chance to win every time they go out. Trade Vasquez while his value is high. After all he is a free agent after next year anyways. That will free up enough money to sign a closer and a set up man. And while you are at it Mark, leave the Braves writing to Dave O’ Brien.
DP
November 5th, 2009
5:18 pm
With regard to my comment about the closer being an overrated position, a team has to get 27 outs to win a 9 inning game. Why are the 3 outs in the 9th more critical than the 3 outs in the 5th? In a 162 game schedule you need starting pitchers who can eat innings so you don’t have to use the bottom 3 guys in your bullpen in tight situations, or do like Bobby Cox and burn up your best 3 bullpen guys by using them every day.
If the Braves were going to consider doing something as crazy as moving Hanson to the bullpen they should declined Hudson’s option and let him go.
gmister54
November 5th, 2009
5:19 pm
I think that is a terrible idea, he could be the horse of this franchise for the next 10 yrs and we don’t have nearly the type of talent that boston had when it made Papelbon the closer. When the braves were dominant in the East it all started with starting pitching… Glavine, Maddux, Smoltz,… We could have a true big three in Hanson, Hudson, and Vasquez… Closer is important, but not as important as a dominant starting rotation.
Bring Me the Head of Deforest Kelley
November 5th, 2009
5:19 pm
Should we move McCann out of the starting catcher role to improve our bench?
Don!
November 5th, 2009
5:19 pm
No.
gmister54
November 5th, 2009
5:21 pm
check that the rotation should be JJ, Hanson, Hudson…. that could be the tops in the majors if all three pitch to their potential… and then have Vasquez and Lowe at the back… we would be very dangerous with that intact
don pardo
November 5th, 2009
5:21 pm
Wasn’t Lowe a successful closer early in his career with Boston?
That would leave KK as the 5th starter ( which is about what he is) on one of the best staffs in baseball.
O'Brien
November 5th, 2009
5:21 pm
Mark,
As other bloggers have mentiond, have you considered Medlen as a closer? If I’m not mistaken, he averages more strikeouts per 9 innings than Hanson does.
That being said, the Braves have to keep Hanson in the rotation, because they will probably trade either Lowe, Vazquez or KK for a big bat.
Justin
November 5th, 2009
5:24 pm
Your an idot for even writing a article about that
311
November 5th, 2009
5:25 pm
No.
They’re going to have to trade a pitcher to either get a bat or free up some money to help sign a bat. There’s no way we keep all 6.
We have a bigger need. A BIG BAT in either left field or at first.
Bring back Gene Garber and Bob Horner
November 5th, 2009
5:25 pm
Interesting idea Mark, but he’s just got too much promise as a starter.
But it is good to be creative with our current resources in order to afford a big bat (thus my moniker) – we knew we should have paid for Ibanez last year when he was available….
Sonny Clusters
November 5th, 2009
5:28 pm
Norton should be the closer.
MightyQuinn
November 5th, 2009
5:28 pm
Breaking NewsArmy: 12 dead; 31 wounded at Ft. Hood » .Mark Bradley With Hudson back, should Hanson become a closer?
4:43 pm November 5, 2009, by Mark Bradley
He started as a starter. Then he became a championship closer.
I’m just throwing it out there, OK? So don’t all scream at once. (If you do choose to scream, please take turns.) So here goes:
With the re-signing of Tim Hudson, the Braves have six starting pitchers under contract for 2010. The baseball truism holds that a team can never have too much pitching, but this one just might. The obvious solution would be to make Kenshin Kawakami a reliever, except for a couple of things: He makes too much money (around $8 million) to slot into middle relief and he generates too many baserunners to close. So …. what about this?
Tommy Hanson as closer.
I know, I know. Would any organization in its right mind redeploy its best pitching prospect in a generation so soon? And the answer would ordinarily be a resounding “Heck, no!’ Except that one organization has done pretty well with a redeployed starter as its closer.
The organization: The Boston Red Sox. The starter-turned-closer: Jonathan Papelbon.
Papelbon worked in 58 minor-league games, starting 48 of them. But then the Red Sox needed a closer to replace Keith Foulke and he got reassigned. And he has been, in the main, great — 151 saves over four seasons.
Would you try Tommy Hanson as closer?
Er, maybe.
No way!
View Results
Loading …
Think of it this way: The Braves have roughly $68 million sunk into nine players (the six starting pitchers plus Chipper Jones, Brian McCann and Nate McLouth). Their payroll last season was $96 million. So that leaves $38 million to spend on 16 roster spots, and the Braves at the moment have no first baseman — Adam LaRoche is a free agent — no proven corner outfielder (Jason Heyward looks good but hasn’t yet had a big-league at-bat) and no closer.
Rather than spend $5 million to re-up Rafael Soriano or Mike Gonzalez, neither of whom is among the game’s 10 best relievers, or spend even more on someone who is among the 10 best, mightn’t it be prudent, both philosophically and fiscally, to give Hanson a look? He has the stuff to do it, and he has the temperament.
OK, OK. I hear you. I’m not saying I’d do it, either. But I’d give it some thought. Because the Braves are going to have to pay big to get the big bat they lacked this summer, and a penny saved is a penny to spend elsewhere. (Get it? Saved? As in relief pitching?)
.ShareThisPrint
..45 comments Add your commentMightyQuinn
November 5th, 2009
4:53 pm
Could it be that I’m……..
LinkReport this comment.MightyQuinn
November 5th, 2009
4:54 pm
First! Woohoo!
LinkReport this comment.don pardo
November 5th, 2009
4:54 pm
I actually think it’s a good idea.
LinkReport this comment.Trey
November 5th, 2009
4:54 pm
No, Tommy should stay a starter.
LinkReport this comment.Skeezix
November 5th, 2009
4:55 pm
Mark: I must say I am not keen on this idea, although he would be a helluva closer.
LinkReport this comment.Trey
November 5th, 2009
4:55 pm
MightQuinn grow up, no one cares if you are first, that has nothing to do with the topic dummy.
LinkReport this comment.MattyB
November 5th, 2009
4:56 pm
I hear where you’re coming from, but I think that’s a sure-fire way to ruin a great starting pitcher that could be valuable for years to come. One thing’s for sure, though. The Braves are going to make some unorthodox moves this offseason.
LinkReport this comment.MightyQuinn
November 5th, 2009
4:58 pm
Trey: Sniff, sniff, my feelings are hurt…….Bwah-ha-ha!
LinkReport this comment.Doc
November 5th, 2009
5:00 pm
I am totally confused. How can you follow a tremendous article on Coach Paul Johnson with such an assinine idea?
Tommy Hanson was the most reliable starter last year in the second half(though you could also argue Vazquez). The Braves need his youth in the rotation with all the other starters over 30. My fear would be an identity crisis a la Joba Chamberlain rather than a success story of Papelbon. The risk in your scenario above does not outweigh the reward.
LinkReport this comment.Mark Bradley
November 5th, 2009
5:00 pm
The Mighty Quinn wins the marvelous prize! (Now all we need to do is decide what our marvelous prize is.)
LinkReport this comment.DP
November 5th, 2009
5:02 pm
Closer is the most overrated position in baseball. Hanson as a starter will pitch 200+ innings if he’s healthy. As a closer he might pitch 75 innings, which leaves 125 innings or more to be filled by lesser pitchers.
It also doesn’t make sense because Hanson has the stuff to go through a lineup 3 times. A much lesser pitcher who throws gas and one other pitch can get the job done as a closer because hitters will only see him once in a game.
LinkReport this comment.MightyQuinn
November 5th, 2009
5:02 pm
I have, however, noted Tommy’s unorthodox-appearing delivery(Anybody besides me look at it and think “Kerry Wood”?) and worried about durability over a career (see Kerry Wood). Moving to the pen to close could save a lot of wear and tear on the arm. That being said, I wouldn’t do it yet.
LinkReport this comment.Frank Robinson (Rockmart)
November 5th, 2009
5:04 pm
Hell.No. But Medlen on the ohter hand…
LinkReport this comment.Mc21
November 5th, 2009
5:04 pm
Why would you take your most dominant starter and put him in the bullpen? Give me 200+ innings and 35 starts over some saves. Hanson has four big league pitches and an incredible amount of confidence in his abilities. We finally develop a pitcher that can be an ace in the major leagues and you want to move him to the bullpen?
LinkReport this comment.ArkyTech
November 5th, 2009
5:04 pm
Difference is Hanson is already a proven ML starter. Papelbon never was. You could make a better argument for Vazquez as closer with his strikeout totals and the fact that the Braves don’t have a long term interest with him.
LinkReport this comment.Jay
November 5th, 2009
5:05 pm
Running out of ideas to meet your weekly blog quota, I see.
LinkReport this comment.Mark Bradley
November 5th, 2009
5:05 pm
I disagree. Closer is not an overrated position. It’s especially not overrated if you don’t have one.
LinkReport this comment.MightyQuinn
November 5th, 2009
5:07 pm
Just being mentioned by the future Pulitzer Prize winning columnist Mark Bradley is prize enough for anyone!
LinkReport this comment.Colonial Dawg
November 5th, 2009
5:07 pm
Enter your comments here
LinkReport this comment.Colonial Dawg
November 5th, 2009
5:07 pm
No, I didn’t forget….that WAS my comment!
LinkReport this comment.We Need Him Too Badly in the Rotation
November 5th, 2009
5:07 pm
Hanson can pitch a lot of innings and is very difficult to hit. He and Jair are a dangerous 1-2 punch in our rotation.
I’d be more amenable to any of the other four back there than Hanson.
LinkReport this comment.Herschel Talker
November 5th, 2009
5:07 pm
No, this is a terrible idea. Almost as bad and idea as keeping Booby the manager or Richt the coach of the Dawgs.
LinkReport this comment.Smack
November 5th, 2009
5:08 pm
No no no. Unlike Paps, he has already proven himself a dominant front end starter and the likes of him do not come around often. I actually would be a bit ticked off if he isn’t slotted as the #1 or #2 next year. Also, Mark look back at KK’s contract, he will make less the next 2 years than he did this year. It was front loaded. While overpaid, he would be the one to send to the pen if we hold the other 5 going into next season. Either that or at least consider a 6 man rotation, that’s a whole other can of worms…
LinkReport this comment.cricket
November 5th, 2009
5:08 pm
I usually like your work but this is completely insane..
LinkReport this comment.We Need Him Too Badly in the Rotation
November 5th, 2009
5:08 pm
I also agree that Medlen, if he continues to improve, could nicely fill that slot. Perhaps not right now, but at some point
LinkReport this comment.Kurdt Kobain
November 5th, 2009
5:09 pm
So Matt Ryan is overrated and Tommy Hanson should close… Are you feeling okay, Mark? I liked the Paul Johnson article. This is insane. Hanson’s way too valuable as a starter to put in the pen. I’d move probably every other starter to the pen before I’d move Hanson there.
Besides, he’s so fun to watch, I’d hate to only see him one inning at a time every few days.
LinkReport this comment.MightyQuinn
November 5th, 2009
5:10 pm
Interesting idea, there, ArkyTech. Kind of like when we put Smoltzie in there.
LinkReport this comment.Eric C.
November 5th, 2009
5:10 pm
Ummm…no.
LinkReport this comment.Einstein
November 5th, 2009
5:11 pm
Cynthia, I mean Mike…have you lost your mind? Tommy should be our #2 starter behind JJ, and I would trade Vasquez, because he just can’t seem to put two good seasons together, and the Braves can get a lot for him. Don’t sign Mike or Sorryano…both are overpaid and overrated and underperform in the clutch. I would work on getting Medlin in shape as the closer. Justmy opinion. Peace.
LinkReport this comment.Kelly Johnson Fan Club
November 5th, 2009
5:11 pm
I’d rather use Kawakami as the closer than Hanson. It’s not the worst idea I’ve ever heard, though. Closers are overrated, anyway. I’d rather have 5 solid starters and a bad bullpen.
LinkReport this comment.Freddie G
November 5th, 2009
5:11 pm
Mark,
What a crazy idea. Could you not come up with a better subject for this debate. Why would the Braves do that to such a promising young starting Pitcher?
LinkReport this comment.Ken Stallings
November 5th, 2009
5:13 pm
You reveal little appreciation for baseball, Mark Bradley. Hanson has proven he can excel as a starting pitcher. You never then rotate such a player to the bullpen. There are too many quality pitchers out there who cannot start, but who can pitch in relief.
It is vastly more difficult to find quality starting pitching than to find bullpen relief, even closers.
Your answer is obvious — no!
The Braves have already signed one veteran who may come off Tommy John surgery well. There will be others available.
The Braves need to spend about $12 million dollars above last season to secure the two big bats it needs to compete for a World Series. Either the team pays it, or we stay mired outside the playoffs.
LinkReport this comment.Braves Fan in Dawg Country
November 5th, 2009
5:14 pm
I wouldn’t make Hanson the closer, but I would consider it with Javier Vazquez. He is a veteran and a strikeout pitcher. It would be nice to be able to get a strikeout when needed in the 9th.
LinkReport this comment.ATL DAWG
November 5th, 2009
5:15 pm
Well Hmm…. The Braves never want to spend money on any free agents that will help the cause always getting players at the end of their careers. I’m really sick of the Braves and Bobby Cox if u ask me.. Oh the question about Hanson he was about the best pitcher they had besides J.J
LinkReport this comment.Dan
November 5th, 2009
5:18 pm
While this is an intersting option, I believe that keeping Tommy Hanson as a starter makes more sense as he has already proven to be a very solid starter. I would suggest that the Braves would be better off to use Derek Lowe and Peter Moylan as their primary relievers. Thoughts???
LinkReport this comment.singndablues
November 5th, 2009
5:18 pm
Throwing darts at the old idea board again eh…………………
LinkReport this comment.Dawgs and Braves
November 5th, 2009
5:18 pm
Having young cheap dominant starting pitching is the most valuable thing in the game. You want to throw that away? It is almost as insane as trading JJ. With those two guys you have a great chance to win every time they go out. Trade Vasquez while his value is high. After all he is a free agent after next year anyways. That will free up enough money to sign a closer and a set up man. And while you are at it Mark, leave the Braves writing to Dave O’ Brien.
LinkReport this comment.DP
November 5th, 2009
5:18 pm
With regard to my comment about the closer being an overrated position, a team has to get 27 outs to win a 9 inning game. Why are the 3 outs in the 9th more critical than the 3 outs in the 5th? In a 162 game schedule you need starting pitchers who can eat innings so you don’t have to use the bottom 3 guys in your bullpen in tight situations, or do like Bobby Cox and burn up your best 3 bullpen guys by using them every day.
If the Braves were going to consider doing something as crazy as moving Hanson to the bullpen they should declined Hudson’s option and let him go.
LinkReport this comment.gmister54
November 5th, 2009
5:19 pm
I think that is a terrible idea, he could be the horse of this franchise for the next 10 yrs and we don’t have nearly the type of talent that boston had when it made Papelbon the closer. When the braves were dominant in the East it all started with starting pitching… Glavine, Maddux, Smoltz,… We could have a true big three in Hanson, Hudson, and Vasquez… Closer is important, but not as important as a dominant starting rotation.
LinkReport this comment.Bring Me the Head of Deforest Kelley
November 5th, 2009
5:19 pm
Should we move McCann out of the starting catcher role to improve our bench?
LinkReport this comment.Don!
November 5th, 2009
5:19 pm
No.
LinkReport this comment.gmister54
November 5th, 2009
5:21 pm
check that the rotation should be JJ, Hanson, Hudson…. that could be the tops in the majors if all three pitch to their potential… and then have Vasquez and Lowe at the back… we would be very dangerous with that intact
LinkReport this comment.don pardo
November 5th, 2009
5:21 pm
Wasn’t Lowe a successful closer early in his career with Boston?
That would leave KK as the 5th starter ( which is about what he is) on one of the best staffs in baseball.
LinkReport this comment.O’Brien
November 5th, 2009
5:21 pm
Mark,
As other bloggers have mentiond, have you considered Medlen as a closer? If I’m not mistaken, he averages more strikeouts per 9 innings than Hanson does.
That being said, the Braves have to keep Hanson in the rotation, because they will probably trade either Lowe, Vazquez or KK for a big bat.
LinkReport this comment.Justin
November 5th, 2009
5:24 pm
Your an idot for even writing a article about that
That should be: “You’re an idiot for even writing an article about that.” One should be able to use grammer and spelling correctly before calling someone else an “idot”.
311
November 5th, 2009
5:29 pm
Mark,
If you did this what would be your solution for gaining a bat?
Would you rely on the small amount of money we have left or be happy with a smaller bat in a mediocre trade? Just curious.
No one that we would be willing to trade would result in the bat we need like one of the 6 pitchers.
MightyQuinn
November 5th, 2009
5:30 pm
Ok, now I’m the idot. Not sure what I just did. Please delete for me Mark. Thanks.
ugaaccountant
November 5th, 2009
5:31 pm
I’d rather start Hanson opening day than move him to closer. Terrible idea.
hawesg
November 5th, 2009
5:32 pm
Closers only matter if you don’t have one. There are a ton of closers out on the market right now. Starting pitching is valuable. Moving Hanson to the bullpen is the sort of nonsense one expects from a 15 year old fantasy baseball player who wants to up his saves next year.
Please. Re-sign Gonzo or go get Hoffman.
Or if you really want to make a starter a closer, make Lowe the closer. He’s done it before…
Max Sizemore
November 5th, 2009
5:34 pm
Dan and don pardo have it right: use Lowe in the bullpen, where he’s been successful before, with Boston. Then, if one of the starters goes down, you move Lowe back into the rotation. The idea of trading Vasquez is absurd. Like they say, you can never have too much pitching.
todd
November 5th, 2009
5:36 pm
Ideas like this really make you lose credibility in my eyes Mark. It’s a really, really, really stupid idea and I can’t believe this is what you came up with for an article.
"Chef" Tim Dix
November 5th, 2009
5:37 pm
Mark, I say go with a six man rotation until June and maximize all trade possiblilities and values.
Remember, who player #25 was this past season.
Norton ring a bell?
ugaaccountant
November 5th, 2009
5:38 pm
And the idea that because we paid more for Lowe or Kawakami means he’s the right choice for our rotation and then screw-over Hanson since he’s cheap is laughable. You’d be fired from a job in the business world for not understanding the concept of a sunk cost.
Plus there’s this thing in baseball called trades which are remarkably easy to do if you’re looking to clear payroll.
The smart one
November 5th, 2009
5:40 pm
So Mark nothing to write about today huh?
Dawg17
November 5th, 2009
5:41 pm
Not no but……HECK NO!!!
BravesfaninWis
November 5th, 2009
5:42 pm
No way man. If keeping the cost down is the only reason to not pursue say a Billy Wagner, or resign Gonzo or Soriano, then why not trade either Vazquez, Lowe, or Kawakami and insert someone like Medlen in as the closer? Otherwise we have Craig Kimbrel ready to come up and be our closer.
You don’t insert your most talented starting prospect as a closer. Teams win championships with starting pitching, so why pull one of our best pitchers out of the starting lineup just to pitch maybe twice a week and waste all that talent? Bradley, what are you smoking man?
frosgrim
November 5th, 2009
5:43 pm
I would rather see Lowe moved back to closer than use Hanson there. Consider that Lowe seemed to have problems the second time through and order and he developed blisters around the same time in the game, it would be prudent to at least consider him in the pen. The knock is that he makes a lot of money to pitch 75-80 innings.
ChurchMan
November 5th, 2009
5:43 pm
They’d be seriously wasting his talent if they made him a closer. Someone who can pitch that good and give you a chance to win every start turns into a guy who would then pitch just 1 inning per game?
There are relievers out there (and the Braves have some) whose job it is to close, they should rely on those guys instead.
mudcat
November 5th, 2009
5:44 pm
Mark, go back on vacation. You’re obviously still tired and stressed out. Come back when you can think clearly.
Matt in Toccoa
November 5th, 2009
5:47 pm
I’d like to think the Braves would consider moving Hanson to the closer’s role to be a last resort. A starting rotation with 4 out of 5 pitchers in their 30s? Seems too likely to have an outcome similar to that of 2008’s opening day rotation: Smoltz, Hudson, Jurrjens, Glavine, and Hampton (and then throughout that season — Chuck James, Jorge Campillo, Jo-Jo Reyes, Charlie Morton, and others).
I’d rather rely heavily on Vazquez (if he comes back), Jurrjens, and Hanson with Kawakami and Hudson filling out the rotation. As for the closer spot, I’d like to get somebody to fill in for only a year or two and let one of the minor league guys groom for that role. I hear Kimbrel is looking really good, anybody know anything about Marek?
Brad
November 5th, 2009
5:48 pm
NO…NO…NO…HELL NO..!!!!
Mark Bradley
November 5th, 2009
5:49 pm
Greg Norton? Greg Norton? Can’t say the name is familiar.
Eric from MO
November 5th, 2009
5:49 pm
This may be the dumbest thing I have ever seen from an actual reporter. If was some dumb blogger I could just brush it off, but your getting a paycheck. Damn man… If, if your going to make one of the pitchers a closer then why not Lowe who isnt as good, is at the end of his career, and actually has experience doing it. Granted 15 mil is alot of money for a closer but your going to be paying Hanson and Lowe the same no matter who starts or closes. Also dont compare Papelbon and Hanson. Papelbon was never as highly regarded as Hanson and Papelbon doesnt have as many pitches to be as successful like Hanson.
Overrated
November 5th, 2009
5:50 pm
Overrated: That is you Bradley. Only teams with $$$ to burn like the BoSox can do this stuff. A solid closer is a lot cheaper to get than a solid starting pitcher. Last I checked, the Braves are not rolling in $$$$
I disappointed I even clicked on this link.
Luv 2 Hate Me
November 5th, 2009
5:50 pm
Dude that idea sucks! If you make him the closer than how are we supposed to get a power hitter. We have nothing but pitchers that are of value. Mark I know your running out of things to talk about and this was a bad blog suggestion.
David
November 5th, 2009
5:56 pm
Sheer insanity. Why not make Lowe, a guy that couldn’t go more than five innings, the closer? What is it with AJC writers and wanting to trade Vazquez, and make Hanson our closer? Did anyone watch last season? Hanson and Vazquez were our best two picthers — Hudson shouldn’t have even been resigned. We don’t need him. They should’ve spent $10 million on a bat, instead.
Brad
November 5th, 2009
5:57 pm
Hanson is the one guy the Brave’s shouldn’t mess with….he comes cheap and is a great starter…….put one of the “RENT A PLAYERS”in that role….afterall when their contracts are within a half a year of being up they can then give the player/s away.They have done that since Ted Turner sold the team/CNN haven’t they?Trade good prospects for a player that you will have a year or less…that way they don’t have to pay them in 4-6 years when they are eligible for arbritration….I miss the Ted Turner days…..Atlanta would definitely be competing with the Yankees and Red Sox if Ted was still the owner…..Please Ted buy back the team!
Leebo
November 5th, 2009
5:57 pm
Bradley, you’ve had some really stupid ideas in your day, but this time you have lost your everloving mind.
Country Boy
November 5th, 2009
5:58 pm
I’m not totally opposed to Hanson closing for one year for the Braves. I would like to see him pitch in perhaps 3 to 4 games per week as opposed to just under once a week. I don’t think closing for a year would “ruin” him and people stating he is a 10 year starter need not bank on him remaining a Brave once is is eligible for free agency.
Erk the Great
November 5th, 2009
6:02 pm
Mark, been reading you for a long time, you are doing your best work these days.
ugaaccountant
November 5th, 2009
6:03 pm
Country boy – Going to the pen may or may not have ruined Joba and Price, but of the three pitchers Hanson is the only one who put up Ace numbers this year. It can’t be a coincidence when 2 highly touted studs fail after being jerked around into relief and back to starting.
Mike
November 5th, 2009
6:04 pm
No! No! No! leave Hanson as a starter! Resign Gonzo to close and send Medlen any where for any thing.
Brad
November 5th, 2009
6:07 pm
Brave’s management thinks that if they get a “BIG”name player in a trade for valuable prospects they can put more fans in the stands..I would rather pay more to see the Gwinnett Braves play then A bunch of guys that will be traded within a year after arriving in Atlanta.
Mark Bradley
November 5th, 2009
6:08 pm
Thanks, Erk. But others disagree.
FSUnoles
November 5th, 2009
6:09 pm
gosh Bradley, you have way to much time on your hands….;
FSUnoles
November 5th, 2009
6:09 pm
make derrick lowe the closer….he’s occupied that spot before
AdirondackDave
November 5th, 2009
6:11 pm
NO – NO … umm NO.
Erk the Great
November 5th, 2009
6:12 pm
as long as they don’t sign your paycheck
HOT DIGGITY DAWG
November 5th, 2009
6:13 pm
The Braves would be better off moving back to Milwalkee..just like the Bulldogs Football team would be better off playing water polo..at least then they could “DROWN IN THEIR SORROWS”..!!
Tampa Gator
November 5th, 2009
6:17 pm
Yeah, a make Mario Rivera a starter. Just about as good an idea. Bradley, still to reporting on ping pong. You probably know something about that. You obviously have no idea about baseball. Hanson a closer. Plain stupid idea and a more stupid as a story idea.
Not Disappointed!
November 5th, 2009
6:18 pm
Will this get us back to post season? Go Braves!
Braves WIN, Braves, WIN, Braves...NEVERMIND
November 5th, 2009
6:18 pm
What’s up with the Braves raising ticket prices for next season? When was the last time we made the playoffs?
Bat Masterson
November 5th, 2009
6:20 pm
That would be no, Mark, besides someone will be traded.
ncgary
November 5th, 2009
6:20 pm
if 6 starters were used , could they maybe not go 9 innings each outing?
garcia
November 5th, 2009
6:25 pm
I haven’t read any of the messages ahead of mine, so I may be repeating someone else’s thought.
Why not make Hudson the closer? Didn’t we do the same to Smoltz to save his arm? Isn’t Hudson an injury risk? I say we keep Hanson in his starting role and put Hudson to work in the bull pen.
BTW, I am against trading any pitching talent. I hear that there will be several top rated hitters dumped onto the market soon.
ncgary
November 5th, 2009
6:26 pm
if 6 starters pitched 8 innings every time they started (27 starts) thats 216 innings, surely the closer by committe, and maybe pick up smoltz on the cheap.
unorthodox? or cutting edge?
or just plain crazee
lol
joe
November 5th, 2009
6:28 pm
why on earth did the Braves resign Hudson–why?? Did they NOT learn their lesson w/ Glavine & Smoltz & the one they paid millions to for not pitching for 3 years & then shipped him off–to Texas I believe. Old tired arms that have been repaired. When will they learn??
klsfriend
November 5th, 2009
6:29 pm
Definite idea for consideration. A few things to consider for braves pitching in general:
1. An closer wins or loses games. An exceptional one wins not only with their own performance but by making the rest of the pitching easier. I simply give you Mariano Rivera. With a close like that the game becomes 7 innings rather than 9 innings long. An unsuccessful closer loses games not only by pulling Brad Lidges but by demanding more from starters and middle relievers than they might be able to give. I don’t think anyone has seen Hanson enough to know how he would actually do in that role.
2. You might want to be more rigorous before thinking the Braves have too much pitching. Here is what you really have:
An ace = Jair Jurrjens – far and away your best pitcher from start to start who appears to be a long-termer
A #2 – Tommy Hanson – until he develops arm trouble which, if you pay any attention to “mechanics”, he will due to the hitch and whip in his motion that will lead to elbow trouble just like Mark Prior (remember when he came up and everyone said he had perfect “mechanics”? I wonder what they were seeing and what they would admit they ignored)
The rest –
Javier Vazquez – an amazing 2009 along with a history of mediocrity. Should you anticipate another career year or another year of the career (12 wins, 4.5 era, etc.)
Tim Hudson – smaller guy, older guy, coming off arm trouble with a history of injuries and never as dominant in the NL as his Oakland days
Derek Lowe – consistent #3 type inning eater with maybe a .510 winning percentage
Kenshin Kawakami – average ML stuff who averaged barely over 5 innings per start
Not exactly a group that strikes fear in the hearts of the rest of the league. Definitely a group who will be generally successful over the course of a long season, particularly with some additional offensive support. Not a group constructed for post-season. Here is the key question – out of all those pitchers, which of them would you feel strongly confident ending a losing streak or winning games in a short playoff series?
Benjamin
November 5th, 2009
6:43 pm
It’s an interesting thought MB, but there’s no way in Philadelphia (…did you see what I did there? I took a rather common saying and used it to slam our rival city.) that I’d move Hanson anywhere near the bullpen.
Atlanta does have a dilemma of sorts, though it’s a decent dilemma to have. Better to have too much than not enough.
The real question this offseason is “Who goes?”. From where I sit, three guys are tradeable — Vazquez (a commodity after last season), Lowe (an albatross who would probably be just a simple salary dump), and Kawakami (still an unknown). We still need an outfield bat, unless people believe Jordan’s going to return with a fury, and we may need two, depending on what happens with Diaz and/or Church and/or Heyward. We need bullpen depth.
Let the Hot Stove begin!
(My take: trade Lowe if we can. That was a bad deal from the beginning, giving a 35 year old above average major league pitcher four guaranteed years at the cost he gave us. I called into Buck and Kinkaid to say just that back when the deal was done, only to be pooh-pooh’ed off the line. It wasn’t a good move then, it’s not a good move now, and it will be a bad one three years from now. Mark my words.)
p
November 5th, 2009
6:43 pm
stupidest idea that i’ve ever heard. seriously.
Mike Mc.
November 5th, 2009
6:46 pm
The season ended last night and I’m hungry for the season to begin already! I have a good feeling about next year. I hope the Braves can somehow push the payroll near $100 million to save LaRoache, despite Freeman’s entry in a year or so. If we get one stud hitter, we’ll be set with or without a top-5 closer. We could probably make an early season trade and pilfer a small market clubs top reliever once the season starts and we figure who is hot.
Steve
November 5th, 2009
6:47 pm
Lowe at closer maybe? I also think the Soriano/Gonzalez combo has real possibilities – but they were not great this year.
Benjamin
November 5th, 2009
6:47 pm
His job is to get people churning, P. Don’t take it to heart.
I used to think otherwise, but Bradley’s pretty dang good at what he does.
Bill Heller
November 5th, 2009
6:48 pm
Hanson as the closer brings shivers down my spine – and the starting rotation would be SICK.
longshotsmith
November 5th, 2009
6:51 pm
let lowe be the closer