
One is hunting a third BCS title; the other isn't bowl-eligible. (AJC photo by Brant Sanderlin)
Jacksonville — The game was a total loss, but the lesson imparted need not be. After yet another lost Saturday in Duval County, this much is beyond dispute: Georgia is no longer a major player in its division, let alone the nation.
Mark Richt began his somber media briefing by saying, “Well, here we are again.” And there they were, lopsided losers. It was 49-10 last season and 41-17 this time, and for all the good work Richt did in the early part of this decade, he and his program have been lapped by Urban Meyer. And Richt, once so clever and driven, seems to have run out of ideas.
He tried the color-scheme gimmick Saturday, presenting his players with black helmets after they’d warmed up in the usual red headgear. The upshot of this was to make Georgia look like an Arena league team and to cow the nation’s No. 1 team not one whit. After 11 1/2 minutes, the guys in the orange hats led the guys in the black hats 14-0.
“It’s not the helmet,” safety Reshad Jones said. “It’s what inside the helmet.”
Well, yes. With an extra week to prepare, Willie Martinez seemed even more witless than usual. As bad as the Gators’ first two touchdowns were, the third was an affront to everything Red and Black. Facing third-and-3 at the Georgia 23 with 1:32 left in the half, Florida ran a simple option. Tim Tebow faked a handoff and burst up the middle. He scored the touchdown that put him ahead of the hallowed Herschel Walker without being touched.
“They’re a good team,” said defensive end Justin Houston. “But it seemed like every time we made a bad play, they capitalized on it.”
In the first half Georgia had eight penalties. In the second it had four interceptions. If it was to have any chance against the Gators, it had to play a clean game. Instead it authored another in a series of messes.
If we’re to believe recruiting rankings, the gulf between Georgia and Florida shouldn’t be so pronounced. But Saturday was another installment of men against boys, and it called to mind the barb Steve Spurrier sunk into Ray Goff in this stadium 18 years ago: “Georgia gets all these players — I don’t know what happens to them.”
Players go to Florida and get, to invoke another Spurrier-ism, coached up. Players come to Georgia and are left to their own devices. Martinez is a substandard defensive coordinator, and no other position coach can be said to have done fabulous work. (Unless you count Kevin Butler, who isn’t a coach but who did sire the prodigious punter Drew Butler.)
Said Richt: “We’re 4-4 this season. I don’t think it’s an indictment of the program. I think it’s an indictment of where we are this year.”
Except Georgia has underachieved three times in the past four seasons, and as Richt himself noted Saturday: “There’s no guarantee of a bowl. The question is, will we play a game when we don’t do something that hinders us from being the best we can be?”
The Bulldogs have never lost more than four games under Richt, but they’ve never been 4-4 under this coach, either. Regarding possible changes, he said: “It’s not good to make decisions within minutes of an emotional game. You’ve got to settle your mind and settle your spirit, and then see where you are.”
As darkness fell on Halloween 2009, Georgia was again where it has been too often. The program that has all the resources was left to wonder why it has fallen so far behind Florida. And the ugly truth has never been more apparent: Florida might or might not have better players, but it absolutely has better coaches.
1,165 comments Add your comment
DAWG05
November 1st, 2009
10:08 am
Mark could you please use your media connections to bring up the thugish type play of Mr. Brandon Spikes…although he has many transgressions throughout the many games I’ve watched UF play, but I am specifically speaking about the attempt to rake out the eyes of Mr. Ealey during the scoring drive in the third quarter. I would appreciate any attempt to bring this incident to light, since it apparently went unscrutinzed during the live telecast of the game. Thanks and GO DAWGS!
SOOHSO
November 1st, 2009
10:08 am
I,ve had it. Go TECH!!!
big dog
November 1st, 2009
10:08 am
One more time for those of the Dawg nation-NO, you will only go to Atlanta one time this year. there is absolutely no chance of your playing for the SEC championship. GREAT!! The Dawgs are one of the most hated teams in America. Why-because of their antics like runniong on the field after scoring a touchdown and dancing in this year’s game –even though they were still behind. Their trash talking and lack of any shread of sportsmanship is truly dispicable!! It is not Richt, nor the coordinators-it is the bunch of mindless idiots you have playing for you. Do you think that the Ga coaching staff hasn’t covered the basics like not trying to run out from deep in the end zone on punts, kickoffs and interceptions. All these five star recruits you have all think they are the “MAN” and don’t have the brain power to light an electric bulb if their brains were hooked together in series. Such a classless and narcissitic lot. And you complain about all the unsportsmanship penalties they have only when they get their sorry asses handed to them by the chompers every year. As long as you are in the division with Florida, Tenn, and now include SC(which should have beaten your sorry asses this year), you will NEVER be playing for the BCS championship. It is not Mark Ritch–it is his idiot players.
den dog
November 1st, 2009
10:09 am
Don’t get too comfortable damon evans, ur gravy train has come to an end. Richt has no passion which tricles down to his flunkies..Start over again..again. other SEC coaches are having afeeding frenzy on our recruits.. Rodney garner for head coach
tech fan
November 1st, 2009
10:09 am
that offence will not work….? look what happened to you guys last year in that bowl game….? you could not survive in the tough sec…..? THE SEC IS A WATERED DOWN JOKE !!!
Sad News
November 1st, 2009
10:09 am
Lack of discipline. That sums up UGA. Discipline starts from the top.
In FSU, and Miami’s hey days they overcame lack of discipline because they were the first program’s going after pure speed and athletes. They had more talent than any other programs, but you still had the Penn State’s, Ohio State’s, and Alabama’s topple them. Now every top program has speed and athletes. Solid fundamental football will always be an important key to success.
When a team plays, and is coached to play like thugs. This is what you get. I don’t think CMR knows any other way of coaching football. Remember whom his mentor is, and what kind of shape he is in.
THWG Fans
November 1st, 2009
10:10 am
Any recruit with any sense at all will not go to UGA. Not because of Richt or poor coaching, but because of the redneck fan base. We all know what the “thug” word you guys like to throw around really means.
You inbred leg humpin mutts are getting exactly what you deserve.
Friends don’t let friends go to UGA.
THWG Fans.
Damon Evans
November 1st, 2009
10:10 am
To Coach Richt:
I think we ought to send that game plan back to Disney. We have the top wide receiver in America and he gets three receptions. I hope you paid for the game plan on a credit card so that we can cancel the sale.
Damon
PS: Perhaps next year we can figure out a better use of a bye week and not spend all our time searching through uniform catalogues.
TRUE BLUE
November 1st, 2009
10:10 am
Georgiadawgg, You can leave the racism comment you made about THE PRESIDENT, GEORGIA AD and the players can’t read or write to yourself. You knew back in the SPRING that GEORGIA would have a hard time winning games this SEASON after the SPRING GAME, because they look a HOT MESS AS A TEAM. Georgia keep on doing what you doing by OVERLOOKING TALENT for these SO-CALLED 4 AND 5 STAR PLAYERS THAT YOU GIVE ALL THE ATTENTION TO AT YOUR CAMPS. From experience I was at a BULLDOG SENIOR CAMP and FRIDAY NIGHTS LIGHTS OUT CAMP and saw from my own EYES. Where a player with NO STARS OUTSHINE A player with 4 or 5 stars. I saw a linebacker that GEORIA RECRUITED and sign get yelled at because he could cover a back out the backfield during 7on7. Willie, BOBO, RODNEY gave all the teaching and love to the 4 and 5 star so-called players. People just go to the one day camp and you will see for youself, because the problem with Georgia is Grading Talent. Then they need to look for player who show and lead by example on and off the field. They don’t need anymore SELFISH players that think about their self.BECAUSE BIG TIME PLAYERS SHOW UP FOR BIG TIME GAMES THEY DON’T GET SHUT DOWN THEY FIND A WAY TO WIN THE BIG TIME GAMES.
E=Mcx4
November 1st, 2009
10:13 am
As a Tech fan I was disapointed in the Black helments, just not UGA. When you start using gimmicks to fire up your players & program. You’re in trouble. Please wear then in Atlanta on Nov.28,2009.
Thank you
Brock
November 1st, 2009
10:13 am
oh yeah- I think Thomas for Tech just passed AJ Green for most yards. How did that happen?
Azazel
November 1st, 2009
10:13 am
Looks like the powers of the East are realigning to their proper positions with Georgia as fly-over territory.
GTman
November 1st, 2009
10:14 am
Mark Richt is a great man, but I think he has lost his intensity and passion for UGA football. Probably tired of dealing with the thugs he has to recruit and the redneck fan base. Martinez should have been fired a long time ago, but Richt is too loyal. If Richt refuses to improve his staff he will have to go.
For all you idiots that think Iowa or any Big Ten football team can beat the SEC champ, what college football have you been watching the last several years? Forget about it! The UF / Alabama winner will absolutely smoke any Big Ten team and will be a waste of time watching. I hope Texas wins out, so the SEC can shut the Big 12 fans up too. USC was again exposed tonight for the farce they are, but will probably remain in the top ten thanks to the idiot voters.
The SEC is very top heavy (UF, AL, LSU), but still the best overall football conference and the high level of competition produces a champion that will defeat whoever they play for the NC.
GT is very good this year and if the top juniors (Thomas, Dwyer, Burnett, and Morgan) come back for their senior year, GT will play for the NC next year!
THWG! 45-42 just the beginning and I can’t wait till 11/28 – bring your pink helmets pups.
eastofA1A
November 1st, 2009
10:14 am
I tuned in in the first quarter and thought Florida was playing Grambling.
coach smith
November 1st, 2009
10:15 am
Can a team not have ONE rebuilding/down year following giving up 2 of the top 12 draft picks while playing 16 FRESHMAN and one of the hardest schedules in the country without it meaning something bigger and questioning the whole program??????????????
Really BRADLEY and others, this is a joke!
LSU had a 5 loss season last year,
the “great” GATORS LOST 5 games the year after losing Chris freakin Leak even with all mighty Tebow,
Oklahoma has lost 3 or 4 this year, USC just got stomped and has lost 2, OSU has lost a few, UT has had several LOSING seasons, VaTech has lost 3 games
Yes there needs to be a change at D-Coordinator, and some philosophy changes
BUT teams are going to have some down/REBUILDING years, it is IF they don’t bounce back that is the problem..If it happens a couple years in a row then there is a problem
#2 and #10 the last 2 seasons, lose some key players and play a bunch of young ones have a rebuilding season, now let’s see how they answer it
tech fan
November 1st, 2009
10:15 am
DUKE IS 5-3 DUKE IS 5-3 DUKE IS 5-3
Mickey Rich
November 1st, 2009
10:16 am
Georgia was obviously out-coached by the Florida coaches, but CMR will not make the necessary improvements because he doesn’t recognize a problem. He doesn’t see that his coordinators are out done as an indictment on his coaching staff or their numerous penalties as even a slight problem. So UGA fans, don’t expect sweeping changes because CMR does not recognize a problem.
Barry Jay
November 1st, 2009
10:16 am
I vote for Coach Richt. He is a good coach who can get the team to the next level. What need to happen first is that he needs a change in perspective. No, he doesn’t need to emmulate Urban Cryer or Nick Satan. He just needs to hire new people around him…people who perhaps don’t always reflect himself and who have passion and a smackmouth mentality. I know Richt played football and knows how to play hardnosed…but he was a QB. Get somebody like a younger Mike Singletary to coach. Get some former NFL players on the staff. Get guys who need Richt to temper their passion. Then I believe they will see recruits differently and call plays differently. Richt’s loyalty will then not be wasted.
barneyb
November 1st, 2009
10:16 am
It is time for a housecleaning with coaching- from the top on down! What’s it going to take to get the UGA Administration to wake up? This is the beginning of the end.
georgiadawgg
November 1st, 2009
10:16 am
I hope i never see Joe Cox in a georgia football uniform. I don’t see where he is that good of a quarterback.I believe the reverend mark is getting kickbacks to letting him play.
coach smith
November 1st, 2009
10:17 am
Can a team not have ONE rebuilding/down year following giving up 2 of the top 12 draft picks while playing 16 FRESHMAN and one of the hardest schedules in the country without it meaning something bigger and questioning the whole program??????????????
Really BRADLEY and others, this is a joke!
LSU had a 5 loss season last year,
the “great” GATORS LOST 5 games the year after losing Chris freakin Leak even with all mighty Tebow,
Oklahoma has lost 3 or 4 this year, USC just got stomped and has lost 2, OSU has lost a few, UT has had several LOSING seasons, VaTech has lost 3 games
Yes there needs to be a change at D-Coordinator, and some philosophy changes
BUT teams are going to have some down/REBUILDING years, it is IF they don’t bounce back that is the problem..If it happens a couple years in a row then there is a problem
#2 and #10 the last 2 seasons, lose some key players and play a bunch of young ones have a rebuilding season, now let’s see how they answer it
Let’s be SMART and not knee-jerk to ONE rebuilding season
Good Grief
Topp Dogg
November 1st, 2009
10:17 am
White helmets,black shirts, red pants, pink panties, and join flag football league.
Bill E. Goat
November 1st, 2009
10:17 am
Lake Oconee,
What jealous pathetic comments. Tebow actually doesnt carry the Gators the Defense does and Defense wins championships, something UGA doesnt know much about.
Andy in Blairsville
November 1st, 2009
10:18 am
You know what would be hysterical for you fair-weather fan whiners? If UGA canned Mark Richt like so many of you demand then he goes back to FSU to build it into a national championship contending powerhouse once again.
You deserve nothing more.
Saint Simons
November 1st, 2009
10:18 am
41 – 17 !!!!!!! hahahahahahahahahahahahaha here comes the carpets of Dalton bowl hahahahahahahahahahahaha
UGA Fan
November 1st, 2009
10:19 am
It’s not a good year for us. Very tough schedule. We have a respectable program though. We will be back. Tebow will graduate. Things will change for the better for Georgia. I like Richt and the dignity he maintains.
coach smith
November 1st, 2009
10:19 am
Techies who are running your mouth
you should WORRY about your own team
31 points to VANDY?
the Dawgs are going to throw the ball all over the yard against you
big dog
November 1st, 2009
10:19 am
It is getting tiresome but one more time—NO YOU ARE MATHMETICALLY ELIMINATED FROM ANY ROLE IN THE SEC CHAMPIONSHIP> Maybe you could go and usher or something. THE ENTIRE SEASON IS A WASHOUT> Now suck it up and wait for basketball season.
Yellow Fuzz
November 1st, 2009
10:19 am
I’m GAY!!
I love watching football players run!
I want them SO BAD!
THEN and NOW
November 1st, 2009
10:19 am
THEN: After touchdown, Herschel hands the ball to official, runs to sideline
NOW: After giving up 8 yards on 1st down, defense struts while beating their chests
THEN: Classic red and silver uniforms
NOW: Arena football league uniforms
THEN: Classic Georgia tradition songs over stadium loud speakers
NOW: Gangsta hip hop rap blaring over stadium loud speakers
THEN: Dooley, wore a tie
NOW: Richt, wears shades and spray on tan
THEN: ERK
NOW: willie
THEN: Special Team All-Americans
NOW: Special John Fabris
THEN: Larry Munson
NOW: Not Larry Munson
THEN: Fred Davison
NOW: Michael Adams
THEN: World’s Greatest Outdoor Cocktail Party
NOW: Annual Beatdown
THEN: Win or Lose, UGA had reputation for class and poise
NOW: Win or Lose, UGA has reputation of thugs
THEN: After loss, coaches and players blamed themselves
NOW: After loss, insult the fans, blame the refs, blame eye-poking, blame it on travel, etc
THEN: Annual Media Guide featured pics of UGA legends on the sidelines
NOW: Annual Media Guide features pics of hip hop gansta ‘stars’ on the sidelines
THEN: Long collegiate careers
NOW: Long dreadlocks
THEN: Player commits stupid personal foul? Coach tears into player!
NOW: Player commits stupid personal foul? Coach tears into referee!
THEN: Bulldog Nation.
NOW: Thug Nation.
THEN: Annual donations from me.
NOW: ZERO donations from me.
Down Dawg
November 1st, 2009
10:20 am
Okay that was bad. We had a bye. Florida should have been tired, but we still got blown out. WOW this is a bad team. When Tech scorches our Defense is Richt going to fire Martinez? When Aurburn beats us 45-20 will that be enough. What’s enough? I don’t see any light at the end of the tunnel.
geno
November 1st, 2009
10:20 am
with the Dawgs going down the toilet, hopefully all you losers will remove the “G” licence plates from your cars…..PLEASE
David
November 1st, 2009
10:22 am
Come on Mark, don’t buckle down. You know that the assistant coaches are a bi product of the head coach. So the assistant coaches are idiots and the head coach is still smart. Stand your ground Mark, so what if it makes the fans mad?
SOOHSO
November 1st, 2009
10:22 am
How much money did UG waste on those ugly black helments? The cost should be taken from CMR salary.
StraightJacket
November 1st, 2009
10:22 am
As a childhood ‘Bama fan moved to GA, it is a time for dawg fans analogous to the end of Darth Vader.
For all of the “sidewalk” dawg fans (i.e. “sidewalk” defined as non-graduates of UGA), it is time to end your life on the Dark Side.
Become ‘Bama (or whatever) fans in the SEC, but for LOCAL college football in Atlanta, join us to see a well-coached team at GT!
LOTS of Georgia Southern fans are following the Jackets now … you non-UGA grads can join us as well!
-SJ
Dawg Gone
November 1st, 2009
10:22 am
Mark Bradley has clearly captured how quickly the UGA football has fallen in such a short time. Georgia has the talent, but the talent is not developed. I am not certain that Urban Meyer would have been able to beat UF with UGA’s players, but I am confident that he would have been in the game the past two years. He is simply a better coach, and he expects (and gets) more from his players than Richt does. Richt has lost the fire in his belly and has resorted to gimmicks to compensate for lack of preparation. Changing helmets and uniforms does not change the fact that the program is on decline, that the defense is pathetic, that the offense is predictable, that the special teams are not special, that the Bulldogs are one of the most undisciplined and most penalized teams in the nation, and that other second (and third) echelon teams in the SEC have caught up with Georgia. The physical and financial resources at Georgia are second to none in the SEC. Georgia has a great tradition, but the reputation is returning to the Ray Goff era. Georgia went into last season as the preseason no. 1 and was humiliated on national television by Alabama and then was embarrassed by UF in Jacksonville. This loss occurred with two first round NFL draft choices on offense. Paul Johnson comes to Georgia Tech, installs a brand new offense, and begins winning immediately. Georgia needs to wake up and realize that the major changes are needed to resurrect its now mediocre program.
Steve
November 1st, 2009
10:23 am
I’m just sick of of the Bulldogs. Every year we return home from Jax. with our tail tucked between our legs and we start saying wait til next year crap I’m tired of it.
But I read one post that cracked me up on page 1 about great SEC coaches have tater chip commercials and CMR doesn’t have a tater chip commercial.Funny stuff.
Sour Pus Dawg
November 1st, 2009
10:23 am
This is all Ray Goof’s fault…
It’s sort of like wrestlin’ – you NEVER let the bad guy get up off the mat.
Seriously, if Richt can’t make the decision to fire his coordinators, then replacing the head coach has to be considered. As mentioned, lots of good candidates out there at smaller schools, and also, there is a guy sitting at home named Tuberville.
dawggone
November 1st, 2009
10:24 am
Did anyone notice the play where a Florida defender stuck his hand inside of Ealy’s facemask while he was under a pile of players? It looked like a clear intent to injure a defenseless player and the sort of thing deserving of a season long suspension.
Super Dog
November 1st, 2009
10:26 am
The Jim Donnan years are back
Undisciplined Team
Dancing and more arrests
I just love how my hard earned money is being spent on this crap again
Oh but this time I have to make an additional donation for this
Thinks Damon Evans
SeaDoggy
November 1st, 2009
10:26 am
Several years ago Richt came up with the inspirational idea that he would become the Chief Executive Officer of the UGA football program and delegate all of the hands-on work to his coordinators. Now he has morphed into being the Chief Exasperation Officer of Dog Nation. When he came in, we were in the middle tier of the SEC East trying to break into the top tier. Now we are desperately trying to keep from sinking into the bottom third of the division. It is time to clean house and find some people who know how to coach college football players before we replace Vandy as the perennial bottom feeder of the SEC East.
GT
November 1st, 2009
10:26 am
Bradley is painfully honest and intuitive in this assessment. I keep wanting to revisit the celebration penalty with LSU, which TB found so offensive. I think the refs penalized Georgia on a poor, but earned, reputation that was plainly shown Saturday with a team totally out of emotional maturity and control. The black stuff worked once on a depleted Auburn team at home, two years ago, why would you need to add any more incentive to this game than Florida is over there and they usually kick your butts. Martinez is a recruiter first and coach second. He is a salesman and his defenses consist of smack talk and out of position players trying to lay the wood to anyone in the other team’s uniform,with the results on the score board the last thing on the players mind. You’ve got a bunch of spoiled players at Georgia on both sides of the ball and given a choice the refs will go against you ever time, they don’t like the way you conduct yourself. I am sure a microphone on the field would be an eye opener. Georgia is going to beat somebody once they get all this macho crap out of their heads, they have the talent to play with anybody. Now that it is not Florida they will probably be down to room temperature to beat Tech. I was hoping so bad they would beat Florida, now Auburn and Tech have to face the sober team with talent. Even sadder Georgia fans will have to watch how good this team could have been will some real coaching, which is not always Xs and Os and recruiting talent.
zooker
November 1st, 2009
10:26 am
even ron zook beat richt!
GA DAWG in CT
November 1st, 2009
10:27 am
I have been a proud Bull Dawg for 45 years, but I am totally ashamed to wear Red and Black. Everyone has been saying the problem is Willie. It goes deeper, or should I say higher. Richt does not have the balls to address the problem. Richt has been on the job too long. It is time for him and all his loser assistants to hit the road. Changing jerseys to black, then dance on the field, then change the helmets to black is high school crap. We need a change in coaches, not a change in jerseys or helmets.
catlady
November 1st, 2009
10:27 am
Why blame the coaches exclusively? Some of these players are so limited, they cannot get and keep a driver’s license, and Coach seems to feel THAT is his responsibility, too. Folks, look at how these athletes are coddled: special housing, special food, special tutors, preferential class schedules (they register before everyone else, including honors students and grad students!), special study halls, etc ad nauseum. Let them be REAL STUDENTS, coping with REAL STUDENT PROBLEMS instead of privileged lap dogs.
For the Tech game, they better wear read underwear too, so that when their butts are handed back to them…..
whats up with that?
November 1st, 2009
10:27 am
sorry to also mention this fact but you had a BYE week last season as well before GT game at home while Tech was playing Miami.
Super Dog
November 1st, 2009
10:28 am
Damon Evans
Heres and idea
Get in your car and make the drive to Atlanta and offer Van Gorder a blank check and tell him to fill it in and take over the defense
Ed
November 1st, 2009
10:28 am
“Let me be clear: I believe Mark Richt is a good coach. But I think those around him are less good.”
For the first time in the Mark Richt era, I have to disagree. Good recruiter definitely, but good coach? A good coach with two weeks to prepare would not preside over this performance against a beat-up, struggling Florida team.
A good coach would not have kept the same staff, especially on the defensive side, after last year’s embarrassing collapse against Alabama, Florida and Georgia Tech. Could the results we’ve seen so far in ‘09 have been any more predictable? What comes to mind is that unofficial definition of “insanity” – did Richt actually expect to have a well-coached, shut-down defense this year? Based on what? Even in ‘07 it was mostly the offense that caught fire to turn the season around. We had to outgun Florida and Troy in back-to-back games because the defense gave up a combined 65 points. The signs go all the way back to the 4th and 10 collapse against Auburn in ‘05.
I can’t come to any other conclusion than Richt has completely botched the last two seasons.
barneyb
November 1st, 2009
10:29 am
Who said they like Richt and the dignity he maintains??????? Are you serious??? Just because he himself displays almost comatose-like calmness? What dignity has he brought to this team? Thugs getting arrested constantly, dreadlocks, dancing Soulja Boy?
The black helmets just underscored the serious systemic problems with this organization. Like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Wonderful Christian family man with great values, YES. Top tier Head Coach, unequivocally NO. In way over his head, questionable play calling & clock management skills. And personal loyalties to his staff have destroyed the entire program. Pure poison. Time to start from scratch. If we are to “rebuild”, let’s do it right. Everyone must go, and put your money where your mouth is. This has been the perfect storm brewing since Richt got here. Once the players recruited by his predecessor were gone, that’s where it all started. Hate to say this, but you know it’s true. I didn’t like Donnan either and don’t want him back. But don’t give Richt credit where it’s not due.
You can quote all the win-loss stats, bowl games, etc. that you want to. But you know deep down this is a program in serious trouble and he is NOT the man to fix it.
BMM
November 1st, 2009
10:31 am
I can’t believe how little attention this article and blog give to how piss poor Joe Cox is at QB. No leadership.