Bobby Cox a bad tactician? Because of Puckett? Come on

Thanks for the corrective!

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Great column Mark. Every manager, coach, player etc makes moves that leaves fans scratching their heads in disbelief. In Bobby’s case those are far outweighed by the success this team has had for the majority of his tenure.

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He started Keith Lockhart in an elimiation game in the NLCS for the righty-lefty match up. He’s a joke.

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Nice try Mark, but I believe you are outnumbered here. Why do so many people disagree here? Are we all boneheads. This imo, was a bad example to try and defend BC. BC is a great manager and the evidence to back that up is ample, but not this one. I disagree. Cox blew this one.

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TomB, do you care to provide any evidence, besides hindsight, that it was a bad move? If not, then you can’t knock Mark. He backed his stance up.

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Hmmm…Keith Lockhart started two elimination NLCS games: Game 6 of the 1997 NLCS, when went 4 for 5, and Game 5 of the 1998 NLCS, which the Braves won. Oh yeah, what a moron!!!

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I understand where everyone is coming from here, but anyone who thinks Cox has EVER taken from this team is both short sighted and ignorant when it comes to the very soul of baseball.

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I think Cox is a great manager. But I also believe that he is a slave to lefty-righty matchups, regardless of the quality of the player. With bases loaded and two out, he would bat Greg Norton over Brian McCann if a scrub lefty reliever was on the mound. Every other manager knows this, and they can use it to destroy him in a five or seven game series. Also, I guarantee you that if we make it to the playoffs, Derek Lowe will start the first game instead of Javy. Count on it. Lowe will get drubbed and then we’ll be playing catch-up the rest of the series. I like Cox, but I wish he would go with the hot hand rather than the lefty-righty thing and his standard rotation.

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Good column, Mark, but if the Braves were interested in winning right now, in the present, next year, he’d be gone at the end of this year. But I guess 2010 will satisfy Atlanta appetites of mediocrity.

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Space Monkey, the way it’s set up right now, the rotation (if somehow we make the playoffs) would have Vazquez starting Game 1. Hanson theoretically would start Game 2, but I have my doubts that he would pitch in the playoffs if we made it.

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The Cardinals have Carpenter and Wainwright going tonight and tomorrow. They’ll be playing to clinch the NL Central tonight.

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If Wohlers throws Leyritz a 102 MPH heater and strikes him out in the 96 Series, do we remember Bobby differently?

THAT was the best baseball team ever assembled in Atlanta. It is a shame that one pitch destroyed it.

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Jair Jurrjens is the Braves best starter. Followed by Vazquez, Hanson, Lowe and Hudson.

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Well jarvis, I can tell you that Graffanino was 2-3 with a home run against Sterling Hitchcock in his career going into that game. In addition to that, he walked in both PAs against Hitchcock in Game 2 of that NLCS. Lockhart never faced him, regular season or postseason.

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Mark – if you really think that you have to go all the way back to Puckett to come up with examples of why Cox is a terrible tactician, then you are being ridiculous. I can come up with far more examples. For starters, how about all the lefty-righty BS that led to a lineup in the 1998 NLCS with Danny Bautista? Would you like more? This blog entry is ridiculous.

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DawginLex at 10:41:

Yes we do remember him differently if that pitch isn’t thrown. However, as much as I think Cox is a complete clown, I don’t pin that pitch or that game on him. There are far better examples where he was responsible, and not poor execution by a player. That one was poor execution by the catcher in the pitch call and the pitcher in leaving it hanging.

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101 wins in 97 only to come up short to the best Marlins team money could buy. I still hate the Dave Justice and Grissom trade for Lofton.

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I’m not arguing it’s difficult to win 14 division titles in a row. That’s incredible. But you also have to think about what our division has been the last 15 years. The only threats we had were usually the Phils, but that was in the mid 90’s when they had Kruk and Dysktra and Dalton. The mets had that subway series in 99 was it? Who cares…my point is, the braves did not have much competition within their division, and that was obvious when we played in the division games and would continue to get spanked. That is obvious proof of Cox’s flaws.

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“…Cox has made so many blunders that a person could continue to write about them for years….Cox is a complete clown…”

Geez, come on folks….

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OK Brian, I’ll give it a try. Liebrant had already pitched game one with miserable results. Pena was pitching great with Mercker, Wohlers and Clancy available. In game three that went into extra innings, the Braves used Pena,Stanton,Wholers, Mercker and Clancy to win the game. Relievers spend the entire year pitching many times with the game on the line. You can make the agrument that they were in a better position to pitch the 11th than Liebrant who hadn’t pitched since game one.

Just listen to what some of the Twins had to say: Puckett’s teamate Terry Crowley said Puckett told him that if they leave Liebrant in the game than this one is over. Crowley swears to this day that Puckett called the home run against Liebrant.Puckett’s teammate Kent Hrbek said he couldn’t recall Puckett specifically forecasting the homer. But he also said it wouldn’t surprise him. You know Puck, how he liked to talk,” Hrbek said.”I do remember they put Leibrandt in to pitch to him, and I don’t know why.”

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If we had a Mariano Rivera, we have at least 3 maybe 4 titles. If Reardon doesn’t implode in Game 2 of the 92 series, it changes the face of that series. If Wohlers doesn’t implode in the 96 series, same thing. 91 was a Metrodome ceiling thing away from yet another title or Hrbeck pushing us off the bases.

Yes, we get spoiled assuming it is a God given right to make the post season but think about the run this team had over the course of 15 yrs – never see it again in our lifetime.

Yes, Cox can frustrate you at times, but overall the true test of the success is how the players and peers view you and you can say that probably most view Cox as one of the best.

I really like this team in 2010 if we can just find that one power hitter and a true leadoff hitter and a bit more bullpen depth.

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Hey Bugkiller…did you ever stop to think about the match-ups?? With Greg Maddox going against the other teams ace, TommyG going against the 2nd best SP…that leaves Smoltz quite often going against the opposing teams #3 starter!! Yes Smoltz was a postseason hero, but speaking of 91, didnt Smoltz get out pitched by a Ace in game 7? Its not as easy as you make it out to be, so quit trying to bash Cox and go rant on another UGA blog!

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And remember how close that game came to never reaching Leibrandt – I distinctly recall Justice crushing what would’ve been a game-deciding HR into the face of second deck, but it went foul by what, a foot or two? (I also remember having the brief consoling thought that the series was too good to end in six anyway, that it deserved a compelling game seven – and we sure got one, though not with the proper outcome.)

The clowns who rip Cox don’t have a clue. They’re also irrelevant – Bobby couldn’t be bothered to spit a sunflower seed in their direction. Of course, Cox is such a class act that if these detractors had the b*lls to talk strategy to his face, he’d shake their hand, hear them out, and likely refrain from pointing out exactly why they’re so clueless. (Unlike most here, I’ve actually met Cox and spoken with him, so I’m not just basing my comments on biased perceptions from afar.)

I love the fact that he’s coming back for a victory tour – mostly because it will be a perfect way for the vast majority to remember and honor him, but also because enduring him for another year will be such a painful thorn in the side of the blathering minority. When he guides the Braves to an unprecedented 15th division title – and if the playoff coin-toss goes our way, perhaps even more – he’ll go off grinning into the sunset, still joyfully oblivious to the bloggers shouting into the hurricane, hoping someone notices them and makes them feel relevant.

It’ll be our loss, but his retirement will be wonderful for Cox and his family. And as with Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz, we’ll only truly appreciate his genius when those who follow fail to live up to a standard that will never, ever be touched.

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Winning one WS in fifteen trips to the playoffs is dumb luck. Coming up short in fourteen trips to the playoffs is a trend.

Get the picture. 1996 WS the Braves are up 2-1 in the first three games , then they are winning game four 6-0 when Neagle and Wade cough up three runs in the sixth inning. The bases are loaded full of Yankees with nobody out. Then Mike Bielecki comes in and strikes out the side to preserve the lead, then nails down the seventh inning. Score: 6-3 Braves.

What does Cox do? Something he hadn’t done all season long. Bobby brought Wohlers in for a two inning save and the rest is history as our closer melted down in the eighth inning, and the Yankees went on to take the series 4 games to 2.

Never mind these two facts. Bielecki had an ERA of 2.63 during the 1996 season and never did give up a run in 6.2 innings of work in the 1996 playoffs.

My point is: If it ain’t broke don’t try to fix it. Wohlers was always a one inning closer. Cox screwed up strategically and there is your proof.

In other words, the correct course of action was to leave Bielecki in for one more inning, bring Wohlers in for the ninth and more than likely we would have been up 3-1 in the series, which probably would have led to a repeat WS Championship.

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Mark

You and Jeff need to huddle up. He thinks that the Braves are done this year and you think they have a realistic shot at making the playoffs. I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. My prediction is that the Braves will lose the wildcard by 2 games, possibly 1.

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BugKiller nailed this 100%.

Bobby may be one of, if not the best full-season managers in major league history. His ability to keep a team performing well for 6 months and keep the team going through rough stretches is why he deserves the HOF – and why the Braves made the playoffs so many seasons. For that he deserves to be lauded.

However, Bobby has never realized and never adapted to the fact that the strategies for getting through a season are NOT the strategies for playoff success – and this is where he has failed. “Seasons” are 3 to 7 games – not 162 games. Every game is a must win. You can’t stick with slumping players to get them through the slump – your season will be over before that happens. You have to go with the hot hand. You have to manage your bullpen differently. You have to play match-ups. And so on. Bringing in Liebrandt was just the 1st of many such decisions that are a major reason why he only has 1 WS ring.

All that said, I will add that IF (major if) the team squeaks into the playoffs this year, things might be different. Because, in effect, Bobby has had to manage (and has managed) the last few weeks in playoff mode. If he can keep that style of management through the end of the season and the Braves somehow make it in, hopefully he sticks with it and lets the chips fall where they may.

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And oh, by the way. Puckett led the American League that year in hitting against lefties.

For this Braves fan, that was the most disappointing night in their Atlanta history. At least the shock and anger following that game 6 (& 7) made the following 13 years of failure easier to take.

Thanks to Sonny Clusters, I can’t look at Bobby’s photo anymore without thinking of a bugger-covered iPhone.

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You make a very good point, Mark. Many time, those who have no experience whatsoever as a manager want to take a decision that ended in a poor result and use that to determine that the manager is in capable of doing his job.

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Gary you are crazy if you think people around here will want Bobby back in 5 years. This manager has done nothing, but win 1 WS in a strike shortened year. Luckily for him, Mike Hargrove was just a little bit dumber. Any manager that sits around a waits in homeruns, never playing small ball, and hopes his pitchers hold a lead is SORRY. What we have seen this season is what we always saw in the playoffs. Mark, why don’t you talk about 1993 when he kept allowing Ron Gant to bat 3rd in the lineup even though he was slumping. Great Managers are defined by championships not division titles. Phil Jackson, Joe Torre, etc won championships not Division titles. Not one championship, but several.

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The #’s were in COX favor with Charlie against Kirby, but “EVERY DOG HAS HIS DAY”, and Bobby played that Ace high hand 1 too many times. He was not wrong for it. Bobby just played that hand 1 time too many. The Herbect tossing Gant(?) off 1st base for an out was HUGE too, but Bobby had nothing to do with that play.

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cvbraves, don’t worry about winning the wildcard because even if we were to get close enough Bobby would do something stupid like start Kelly Johnson or Ryan Church because a lefties on the mound. Or he might pinch hit GREG NORTON in the ninth with the bases loaded nobody out. All bobby does is pick his nose, get thrown out of games, and says thing like “COME ON CHIP!’ during the game. Unfortunately we have to deal with this one more year.

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First, BC is a giant. He is a future Hall of Famer and a great manager. I just disagree with the premise of the article, that Puckett’s performance disputes the argument that Cox, though a great strategical manager, was not a great tactical one. Mark makes his argument for Liebrant pitching that inning. I just don’t agree. I think their was a collective “what are you doing” from the majority of Braves fans when they brought him in to pitch to Puckett. Mercker, yet to pitch two future no-hitters, was available along with flame thrower Wohlers. They had been in these situations before. Liebrant hadn’t pitched since game one(not a great performance). I quess we will have to just agree to disagree here. But, there is no disputing that BC will go down in history as one of the best managers in baseball. The one World Series win doesn’t matter. Weaver and Durocher won only one World Series and they are seen as great managers and so will BC. The Wasington Nationals would love to have one.

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TomB… you argument that Durocher and Weaver only won one World Series is not a good one.

First, Durocher had to face the Yankees. All the time in the WS. The YANKEES, of DiMaggio. Of Gehrig. Of Berra. A FAR better team than his Bums. Literally Jack vs. The Giant.

In fact, the one World Series Durocher was able to win is a testament to how good he was as a manager, because the Yankees were again so much better than his team.

Bobby Cox has continually lost in the playoffs to WORSE teams.

1993 Phillies. 1996 Yankees. 1997 Marlins. 1998 Padres. 2000 Cardinals. 2002 Giants. 2003 Astros. 2004 Astros.

Nine times Cox has had the better team and lost.

THAT IS UNFORGIVABLE.

This is also were Earl Weaver was ALSO overrated as a manager. Those Oriole teams only won ONE World Series??? With THAT pitching staff???

Sorry, but Weaver and Cox are two in the same. Supremely overrated.

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Wait just a second Mark. You know better than that. I know by the stats you selected you know this already but care to post Kirby’s career numbers against Leibrandt? The move doesn’t determine Bobby’s reputation but defending that move is inexcusable as is the Lockhardt move in 98 as is the handling of Franceour, LaRoche and Diaz in the lineup this year.

Again, that doesn’t ruin his reputation but the good should go with the bad.

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Cox needs to go -he is awful all these years one championship?? Come on!

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TomB… you’re right, the best teams don’t always win.

I would take 1/3 of the time. Kind of like Joe Torre. 4/12.

But Bobby Cox’s teams losing to WORSE teams 9 out 14 times?

That’s called a TREND, TomB. Don’t let your blind loyalty and appreciation of Cox turn you off to the actual facts that surround his overrated career.

Hitters hit, pitchers pitch. But who fills out the lineup? Who continuously left the hot bats on the bench for his favored light-hitting veterans, or his ridiculous platoons? Who mismanaged the heck out of his pitching staff, time, and time, and time again?

The one thing I don’t get about you Bobby Cox supporters and you Willie Martinez defenders is how quickly you want to blame the players for everything without understanding that the buck must stop with the manager and the coach.

Who manages or coaches the players? Who refuses to make the necessary adjustments to ensure the success of their defense or their team? Who is the one coaching fundamentals? Who is the one who stubbornly refuses to drop a struggling, rally-killing hitter from the clean-up spot? Who takes out Mike Bielecki and inserts Mark Wohlers an inning early, which if that never happens, then Wohlers never hangs a slider? Who is in charge?

It’s no surprise that the Martinez defenders and Cox supporters are most always the same people.

And that they are WRONG on both accounts.

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I believe Bobby is a bad tactician but due to the body of his work not just the Leibrandt-Puckett episode. Since you brought it up though, I believe it’s always a crapshoot to bring in a starting pitcher in a game on the line situation as a reliever. He’s used to warming up and preparing to start and has to alter that in the relief situation. It’s asking him to do something he isn’t really prepared for. He had gotten Puckett out twice before but in a starter’s role. Of course that’s why you never want to get to a game 7 or even worse extra innings of a game seven, because one mistake, bad hop, or other bad break and you’re done.

I’ve always felt like the reason never had more post-season success is because all Bobby’s teams, including his Toronto teams have always been weak on the fundamentals. Failure to bunt, hit to the right side, move runners along, hit and run, poor baserunning and other failures to execute are always magnified in the post season. Every time you get a scoring opportunity, you have to cash it in cause the majority of the time you are going to be facing quality pitchers. Good pitching with negate good hitting nearly every time.

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The problem was with the Braves Organization. Somewhere along the line they put together teams to keep the streak of division titles going, not to win World Championships. The Eastern Division (which we were in during most of this time) was usually pretty weak and the Braves could have holes in the lineup and still wrapup the division a week or two early. Then the holes in the lineup would be our undoing in the playoffs or World Series. As someone state earlier Mariano Rivera is the main difference between the Yankess and the Braves in the 1990s and beyond. They had a closer that was at the top of his game for 7 or 8 years and the Braves kept giving away talent year after year to get a closer that was past his prime. Mark Wohlers, home grown talent, held it together one year and we won the world series that year. Bobby made plenty of mistakes over the years along with alot of good moves. But please save John Schuerholtz his share of the blame. The Florida Marlins a terrible organization that can’t draw flies with regard to attendance have two world Championships to the Braves one. That is the disgusting part of the Braves great run. If winning the division was what Baseball was about they would stop playing in September.

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I really don’t believe that most locals dislike Bobby. I think it’s just that the idiot “know it alls” that think he is awful are the ones that won’t shut up about it. He is one of the best managers of all time, and you people wouldn’t know a great manager if he wiped a booger on your face.

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If the braves make it into the playoffs it will be because they are focused and they are the hottest team in baseball. It will take a miracle to get in, but if we do we should be competitive.
The main reason there is only one WS win is a lack of clutch hitting by our main guys. It should never have come down to one play and one pitch. We had our chances long before it came down to the last play. Plain and simple our players didn’t get the job done. You can’t blame Bobby for that. You have to dance with who brung ya. The game is played on the field not in the blog. Only those that have actually been on the field in the post season with the season on the line can speak with any authority. The rest of y’all are just passing gas in the wind. Get a life.

I remember what it was like to suck every year, and we sucked really sucked bad, never having a shot at playing .500 ball. Our goal was to just not lose 100 games. To be competitive and in the hunt every year for all these years is great. Most cities would be happy if their team is competitive once every few years.

Hey Booby; Thanks for the ride, It has been great.

when they had to. Managers aren’t on the field making plays or swing the bat.

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How can we upload pics? I owned a 64 Galaxie 500 4 door (Andy Griffith’s Police car) that we painted with scores, Homeruns, strikeouts, and the next team we beat. I drove it around Atlanta during the early 90’s games and we had a blast. Doing the CHOP and feeling the love from all the people of Atlanta. 89 Tech BBall in the final Four @ Denver, 90 Tech winning the National Championship in football, and the Braves Going to the World Series. What a GREAT 15 months to be in a Metro Atlanta Sports Bar.

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…and I agree with you, UGA!

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In spite of all of his so-called ’shortcomings’, I will ALWAYS remain a Bobby Cox loyalist…You have to consider the ‘entire’ body of a man’s work in order to make a ‘fair’ judgement…I was disappointed, angry, and hurt in 91′, just like every other die-hard Braves fan, but I have to believe that 8 out of 10 times Liebrandt gets Puckett out & we win!…The folks who hold that move against Bobby are short-sighted in view of his tremendous accomplishments. I’m glad the Front-Office did the right thing, and gave our ‘Skipper’ a chance for a final farewell…I for one will be there both this year and next to say, “Thank You for all you’ve done for us!”

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Maybe Bobby is responsible for Lonnie “Skates” Smith falling down rounding 2nd in Game 7 of the 1991 WS as well.

The common knock, and I heard this again a few times yesterday, was that Bobby had the best pitching in baseball for 14 years but only won 1 title, which is somewhat true. However, he had the best REGULAR SEASON pitching in baseball during that time.

In the postseason, when the weather gets cold, power arms dominate. During this time the Braves had one primary power arm, Smoltz. And Smoltz, despite often being the Braves’ 3rd or 4th best starter during the regular season, was their money starter during the postseason. The rest of the Braves rotation was often comprised of softer-tossing control oriented pitchers that were almost always better during the regular season then the postseason–Maddux, Glavine, Leibrandt, Neagle, Burkett, Ortiz, Hampton, Ramirez.

In fact, when one of Bobby’s soft tosser’s was as good in the postseason (or better) then they were in the regular season–e.g., Maddux’s two-hitter in Game 1 of the 1995 WS and Glavine’s one-hitter in Game 6, they won.

Could the Braves have won another title? Sure. Lonnie could have scored from first on Pndleton’s double, Reardon could have not done his gas can impression, Leyritz could have not hit the 3-run HR. But, none of those situations occurred because of Bobby’s tactical errors.

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Enter your comments here The Herbeck/Gant blown call in my opinion is the real reason we lost to the Twins.

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Ummmm. But it was still CHARLIE LEIBRANDT. Cox is a master of going to the well one too many times. And I was 14 years old when that decision was made, and I was screaming at the tv what a horrible idea that was BEFORE HE EVEN THREW A PITCH TO PUCKETT. A 14 year old knew that!!! Please stop standing up for Bobby. I love him for what he did for us, but DO NOT try to justify his boneheaded moves. Thanks.

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I was in the stands for the 2nd game the Braves played in Atl. I’m really just a Braves fan anymore, I just can’t get interested if the Braves are not playing. I’ve held season tickets from 1978 thru 1995 so I’ve seen my share of Braves baseball. The best baseball the Braves have played since they’ve been in Atl has come under Bobby Cox. Period, end of discussion. I will remember this time as the best time in Atl Brave history. I’ll miss Bobby when he’s gone and tell my grandchildren about the time when the Braves were the best team in baseball. We will never again have this kind of run. Thanks Bobby, you were and are one of the best ever. I hope you enjoy many years or retirement. The Hall of Fame awaits

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IT’S THE 1997 NLCS – PAGING KEITH LOCKHART!!!

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SICK OF IT: Amen brother!

KEEPER: You are a tool, and you accept mediocrity. Go cheer for the WNBA team if you want to, but don’t bring that stuff in here, you chump.

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I was a pretty fair post-season pitcher and I wasn’t a power pitcher.

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“The inconvenient truth is that most managers, given the same personnel, would make the same moves most of the time.”

So what sets Cox apart?

This: The hallmark of Cox’s teams is that they keep playing. They don’t implode from internal strife. That’s why his teams have finished first more times than any other manager’s in the history of the sport.

I say: BALONEY!

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AMEN!!! Great article Mark! In a few years Bobby Cox will be in the Hall of Fame, and the dilusional so-called fans that think its realistic to be in the playoffs and win the World Series every year will be crying and whining about Bobby’s replacements, no matter how successful they are.

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MB: Good Job!
Although I doubt that common sense will prevail among some on the blogs!
Most of these have:
a) never played the game (been spectators their whole lives!)
b) coached little league (therefore they know how to coach and
win always!)
c) sit in front of their televisions @ home with peanuts and beer
constantly frustrated and angry – looking for someone to blame.
d) down at the bar with others of like mind – again living a frustrated
and angry life – each looking for someone to blame for their
frustrations.
e) They have the perfect team in their mind and they should
win 150 games a yr. or else you’re a bum!
f) Have not caught on yet that baseball is a game – a sport, there are
winners and losers each year, and you pull – cheer for your team to
be the ones that win more than they lose each year. When they do
not, you move on with REAL life issues and “wait until next season”
to pull – cheer for your guys again.
g) have a computer – found a way to vent out their frustrations – and
sit there all season doing so (it will not make a difference who is
coach – the same ones will spew their stuff – that’s what they do!

I admire your tenacity to continue to bring “some” common sense to the table – keep it up MB!

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Um, Drock, if Cox had managed in New York, Boston or L.A. and lost back to back WS like he did with our Braves back in 1991-92……Bobby would have been fired, immediately.

Something else few Braves fans are aware of, Bobby Cox has lost more post season games than any other manager in ML History (66-66 record .500).

Cox’s record in the regular season: 4336-2408 .556

Cox’s record in all post season series : 12-13 .480

Cox’s record in the World Series: 1-4 .200

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In 9 of the 14 Division Title years, the Braves had the best record in the NL. Most of those came before the unbalanced schedule, so Division strength wasn’t that relevant. To translate that for the under 30 crowd, in Casey Stengal’s day, that would have been 9 WS appearances in 14 chances at the post-season. Hard to fire a manager for doing that.

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wawel78 : Puckett hitting better than 300 against Leibrandt doesn’t help Marks case now. Anyway, it seems to me that if he struck out twice against him in the first game, and he’s hitting better than 300 in his career, then the odds are against Liebrandt suceeding again, imo.

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Here’s the deal. Mark: you are absolutely correct. Bobby Cox is the greatest regular season manager ever. BC haters, you are also correct. Bobby Cox is one of the worst post-season managers ever.

Across a 162-game season, it takes a cool, level head to win and win and win. A team, and by extension the manager, cannot get too high or too low between April and September. Bobby’s style is perfect for this scenario, and he’s the best ever.

But come October, you have to crank up the emotions. You can’t afford the even keel of a long season. You have to win 11 out of 19 (and in the right order). That takes some fire, some spark, something more than “no problem, we’ll get ‘em tomorrow”. Bobby doesn’t know how to throw the switch and turn up the heat, to go with a hunch instead of playing it by the book. And it shows in the Braves’ less than stellar post-season performances. Credit the 1995 World Series win to dominant pitching, not any particular strategic moves Bobby made.

And so he was the best and the worst. All rolled up into one.

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Players love playing for Bobby because having good regular seasons and not winning it all is OK with him.

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Let’s say we was not sure about something and wanted to look it up on the internet and all we had with us was an iPhone. We could take out that iPhone and ring up the internet and type in our search and find what we was looking for. Now, say we was a nose picker and had been using that iPhone for quite awhile and it was a little greasy from nose picking. Say we was a major league manager and we needed to make a call to the bullpen and when we tried to call on the iPhone something was covering up the numbers and we couldn’t see what we was calling and we ended up calling Frank Wren or Mark Bradley just by pushing on a booger. That’s what’s been wrong and we hope it gets fixed.

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EHaven’t read any of the prior posts tonight, so guess I’ll step into a deep hole!
- To all the Braves apologist, relax and enjoy the chase! How long has it been?
- Notwithstanding the above, just think where we might be now if our GM had picked up a bat or a couple of bats at the trading deadline! And despite what all believe, there were some bargains out there that would not have cost us any real prospects. Oh well, the brains had already pitched in. Surprise!!
- Mark, no need to try to justify the spring training report, or lack of report. Most with any real understanding know that the latest report(s) are suspect for whatever reason.
- Thanks for the “time to go” pieces. Don’t know if they had any influence, but your timing was spot on.
- I will half way apologize for my Bark Maddley posts in the past. You seem to be half way balanced this year. Jury is out. I’ll give you a total apology later this year if appropriate.
- Years ago thought you were a UGA Grady graduate- now know that is wrong. I wrote sports for a local paper in Atlanta in the 1960’s-70’s and considered Grady, but went to GT for a more lucrative career. Thankfully, it worked out.

nter your comments here

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Braves win! Hooray!

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why try and argue with some of these professed experts on Cox being a bad manager…

they are like the mental giants who keep talk radio alive with their wacko beliefs and conspiracy theories, they don’t see logic or the truth..

Anyone who is even remotely involved in MLB knows the truth about Bobby, he is one of the best managers in baseball history, a few wingnuts who frequent these blogs under various names don’t a majority make, no matter how often or fervently they bray…

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Bobby is seldom the bride and sometimes not even the bridesmaid. I’d rather haver fewer divisional wins and more World Series wins ala Joe Torre. So Leibrant was more effective against righties than lefties. How had Pucket done against either side for the season – well???? And yes Sparky Anderson was wrong to have a boob like Pat Darcy (a spot starter) pitching in late innings when he had the great bullpen of Eastwick, McInny, Bourbon, and Clay Carol – dam straight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Having been in attendance at the home games against Toronto, and watching the others on TV, I contend that the Braves lost that series because Toronto guarded the line and Atlanta did not. They had numersous hits down the line and the Braves had few. That was an error in Bobby Cox’s straegy that cost the Braves the series.

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To be balanced, you should have noted that Kirby was hitting .400 or very close to it that season off of lefties. That means that the fact that Leibrandt got him out two times isn’t a reliable indicator that he would get him out the next time up. Leibrandt should have gotten Puckett out 3 out of every 5 times. But if you keep tempting fate, it’ll bite you.

I love Bobby. That was a bad move.

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The biggest factor is the lack of the DH in the NL. The DH gives you another stick and doesn’t adversely affect the pitching staff since you never have to pinch hit for the pitcher. Think of it, if the Braves could add another stick right now and drop the worst pitcher on the staff, would they not be a stronger team? And there would be no need for Greg Norton.

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Mark your opinion is just that. Do you believe you can change the opinion of all those that differ with you on Bobby Cox? I’ve watched the Braves 42 years and you couldn’t change my opinion on any of their managers in that period. They’ve had some good ones and bad but the players made the difference. Good players make great managers. You can’t say another manager wouldn’t have done as well or better than Cox. Thats opinion.
My opinion is Cox has had his glory days………..I believe he could have done alot better……when he put in Leibrandt I told my wife it was over……..many other times when he made stupid moves everyone knew what was going to happen, you can feel it…. but not Cox. Frankly I’ll be damn glad when he’s gone and you can bet your sweet a@@ I will never ever wish him back.

I do hope management is smart enought to hire a good Manager so some of the smart a@@ on here want start that crap.
We may agree on these- Mills, Jose Oquendo, John Farrell, Greg Walker hitting coach white Sox, would be great picks to follow BC. Hell no to TP!

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Agree Curtis Jones. If not for what C. Jones said above happen, Braves would be in play-off. Great mgr screw up. Wait till 2011.

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Cox’s Braves brought plenty of regular season satisfaction but too much post-season pain to be remembered joyfully. In fact, the Mighty Braves of the 90’s were responsible for 2 of the 3 most painful events in Atlanta sports history: (1) the loss to the Twins in extra innings via a base-running error and (2) the Leyritz home run and subsequent collapse against the Yankees in ‘96. The third? The Falcons playoff collapse against Dallas in January 1981, of course.

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Let’s not focus on the things Bobby has done wrong, which are few. Let’s focus on all the things he has done right which makes him one of the great baseball managers of all time. Can anyone name a professional baseball manager who hasn’t made some mistakes along the way? Why don’t you nasayers look at the mistakes you have made in life and give Bobby a break? He’s not perfect but he’s one of the best ever.

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You can throw out the loss to Minnesota, as we know now they cheated their way to two World Series championships, by changing the flow of the vent system (blowing in 15 mph against Braves), blowing out (15 mph) when Minnesota was batting. The situation is so bad that Baseball has a standing rule that only a Baseball representative can control the air flow during a playoff game. I guess in Minnesota winning overrules fair play and honesty.

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yeah bubba cox blew it in the world series.What a lose to be in the series or championship game to come up empty so many times. What a loser. We only won one and that was because of David justice. HEY WHAT ABOUT MICHAEL VICK? IS IT TRUE THAT THE FALCONS ARE OFFERING MATTIE LICE AND NORWOOD FOR VICK? It makes sense because mattie lice cant consistantly sell out the stadium like VICK. BTW Bradley how many Vick jerseys do you own?

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We will never have Vick hear again because a black man cant be quarterback. We may use him as a running back if he acts right

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I dont think any one who has that many dogs would have time to play football. I think Vick should give some of his dog away or turn them in to the human society. Then if he want to play for Georgia bulldogs im for it.

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Tom B – my point was that MB was picking and choosing stats, which is unfortunate since Kirby owned Leibrandt up to that AB. I don’t hold that as Bobby’s defining moment but defending it is a little silly.

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Absolutely correct, Mark- and also, we’ll never see how Puckett would have done with Wohlers or anybody else.

The easiest thing for the armchair loudmouth to do is sit there, wait and see what doesn’t work out, and then yell “I’d have done the other thing!” The right decision doesn’t always work.

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Enter your comments here
NC Braves Fan,
John Smoltz was not out pitched in Game 7 of the 91 series. When he was taken out of the game the score was 0-0, and the bullpen and Lonnie Smith blew that game.
But to address the topic of the thread, Bobby was a great regular season manager, postseason, not so much.

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Mark: Great article! Thanks for taking time to try and ingrain some sense of perspective to those fans with have lived a perfect life where every decision/move they ever made worked out perfectly, who have selective memory, who love to second guess after the fact, probably also are back seat drivers, and constant kibitzers. Any knowledgeable baseball fan who is fair minded has got to conclude, without hesitation, that over his entire remarkable career, Bobby Cox has been one of the best ever. How he has pulled this team together in the last month (especially after being embarrassed by the Reds and Chipper’s extended slump) has been another example of this man’s amazing ability to stay positive and develop/motivate a team. Without Bobby Cox there is NO way this team is only two games back in the wild card race this morning,

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I’ve often said that Bobby is a dichotomy, the best regular season manager and the worst post season manager. But you have to be the first to have a chance to be the second.

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Why do you even waste your time debating this with some people?
He is respected and praised all over MLB, and by national sportswriters, annoucers, former players, etc.
Why bother arguing with people who just aren’t very knowledgable baseball fans?

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For us to be in such a critical point of this season, there sure is a lot of negativity surrounding this organization, all of which can be attributed to the fan base. Yes, all YOU, you Bobby Cox haters. We took a lot of flak this off season during that Griffey fiasco because we were such terrible fans. We sure are proving them correct right now. Why don’t you put your hating behind you and root on your team, won’t you??? Idiots… I might as well start rooting for the Mets… At least they will defend their team.

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Bobby Cox has often been compared to Earl Weaver. Both men lived and died with the 3 run homer and great pitching. Like Cox, Weaver too had much regular season success yet won the championship only 1 time in 6 post season appearances. The pitching of the 90s Braves and 70s Orioles was as solid as you could get. I think waiting for the 3 run homer is not a winning hand in postseason. Add Cox and Weaver together and you 2 championships in 21 tries. That seems to be an indictment of the big inning strategy. I hope for a new manager who will emphasize the running game and speed, which never slumps.

Also remember how Cox got burned on the LH/RH platoon in the 1985 ALCS with Toronto. Games 6 & 7 of that series, Dick Howser played on Cox’s use of platoons. Howser started RH pitchers which meant that Cox went with his LH platoon guys. After about 3-4 innings, Howser would pull the starter and bring in a lefty. Cox then would take out all of his LH hitters for the RH ones. Howser would then go to his RH reliever, Dan Quisenberry, and there was no one left for Cox to pinch hit with. Besides, most of his best hitters were the LH he took out early in the game anyway.

Finally, Bobby’s idol was his own manager Ralph Houk. Despite all the talent that he had with the Yankees and later the Tigers and Red Sox, Houk won just 2 world championships.

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Enter your comments here
Why in the hell would anyone want to watch another Bobby Cox post season? I’m glad that the Braves are gonna miss out… I don’t need the agravation.
Oh yeah, I have lived in several states since leaving GA in the early 90s, and Cox is a HUGE JOKE everywhere. He gets no “National respect”.
So quit believing it’s just an “Atlanta thing”. He has gooten nothing but dis-respect on every media location I’ve been around.
Ahhhh.. but the way he buries that thunb knuckle-deep in his nostril, dis-lodging a nose fruit to flick in the dugout… that is sublime.

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i do agree that Bobby’s steady hand keeps teams playing hard. but we can’t ignore his deficiency in in-game situations.

for instance, his decision on Sunday

tied at 3 in the 7th inning, go ahead run on third with one out, pitcher’s spot up

the Following hitters available – Infante .290 avg, .731 OPS, David Ross .264 .866, .272 .721, Gorecki, Kelly, and Brooks Conrad .200 to .220 hitters. And Norton.

Norton, hitting .102 and slugging .118 from the left side. Let me reiterate – slugging .118!!! Bobby inexplicably picked Norton, who failed.

Because of Moylan’s Houdini impression saved Bobby from looking too terrible.

But that was a big run that we left out there, and it can’t be denied that it was because of Bobby’s foolish decision to keep running an overmatched, pitiful Norton out there.

i love bobby, but his in-game decisions are often terrible.

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[...] by Kirby Puckett during game 6 of the 1991 World Series. While fans are sad to see the end … Bobby Cox a bad tactician? Because of Puckett? Come onBobby Cox brought Charlie Leibrandt, a left-handed pitcher who'd been a starter all his career, [...]

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