Bobby Cox a bad tactician? Because of Puckett? Come on
It’s unfortunate the long and meritorious career of a Hall of Fame manager can, at least in the minds of many locals, be boiled down to one at-bat on Oct. 26, 1991. It’s unfortunate because the move that has come to be seen as wrong-headed was made for sound reasons.
Bobby Cox brought Charlie Leibrandt, a left-handed pitcher who’d been a starter all his career, in to face the righthander Kirby Puckett with the Braves and Twins tied in the bottom of the 11th inning of Game 6 of the World Series. Puckett hit a home run. The Braves would lose the Series the next night, also in extra innings. Those looking to justify the oft-voiced claim — “Cox has always been a bad tactician” — start there.
But look close: Leibrandt had faced Puckett twice in that World Series, striking him out both times. In 1991, Leibrandt had retired righthanders at a higher rate than lefties. (Righties hit .237 off Leibrandt in 1991; lefties hit .274.) And when you’re tied as a visitor in extra innings, you know you have to get six outs to win, not just three. Why not summon a starting pitcher, a veteran of postseasons past who’d won 15 games that season, as opposed to a 21-year-old Mark Wohlers?
Because, you’re saying, it didn’t work. But wouldn’t that, on one side at least, invalidate every move made in every baseball game ever played? Was Tony La Russa wrong for letting Dennis Eckersley pitch to Kirk Gibson in 1988? Was Sparky Anderson wrong for having Pat Darcy work to Carlton Fisk in 1975?
The inconvenient truth is that most managers, given the same personnel, would make the same moves most of the time. As Greg Maddux would say, it then comes down to a pitcher making pitches and the hitter trying to trump him.
Can Cox be maddening in his seeming overuse of the bullpen (to say nothing of Greg Norton)? Sure. But even in a season that hasn’t seemed the esteemed manager’s finest, his team entered the final 10 days with a realistic chance to make the playoffs. And that body of work is a better measure of Cox than one swing by the Hall of Famer Puckett.
The hallmark of Cox’s teams is that they keep playing. They don’t implode from internal strife. That’s why his teams have finished first more times than any other manager’s in the history of the sport. (Cox has 15 first-place finishes; Joe Torre has 12; Casey Stengel had 10.) Cox’s men keep playing because they like playing for him. If they thought their manager was an in-game dunce, we’d have known it by now. We’d have known because they’d have quit on him.
It’s intriguing that Cox’s critics focus on the post season, which owing to the addition of the Division Series has been rendered almost a coin flip, and not the six-month regular season, which is the truer test of a manager and his team. It’s also fascinating that Cox is never given credit for any October move that worked. He began to use John Smoltz as a closer in the 1999 postseason, and he even used Maddux to finish Game 5 of the 1998 NLCS in San Diego. And the one Series his teams won turned on, of all things, a Cox choice.
Oct. 25, 1995: Wohlers had been touched for a home run and a double to begin the ninth. Cox summoned the lefthander Pedro Borbon Jr., who hadn’t pitched in nearly three weeks, to face Jim Thome, Sandy Alomar and Kenny Lofton. Borbon retired all three. The Braves took a 3-1 Series lead and would win the title three nights later. Should fairness not dictate that we hear as much about Borbon as Leibrandt?
Here’s hoping that, as Bobby Cox’s valedictory tour begins, we see him for what he truly has been. (And having Cox work one final more is Solomonic: It affords him a final go-around without leaving matters open-ended.) Even above John Schuerholz and Tom Glavine and Terry Pendleton and Smoltz and Chipper Jones, this manager is the reason the Braves became and remained the Braves.
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173 comments Add your comment
Herschel Talker
September 25th, 2009
4:12 pm
SICK OF IT: Amen brother!
KEEPER: You are a tool, and you accept mediocrity. Go cheer for the WNBA team if you want to, but don’t bring that stuff in here, you chump.
Cox messed up
September 25th, 2009
4:15 pm
Mark, I am actually more of a Bobby Cox apologist but he blew that game not by who he brought in but rather who he took out. He keeps Smoltz in and he would have twice the WS rings he has now.
Whitey Ford
September 25th, 2009
4:23 pm
I was a pretty fair post-season pitcher and I wasn’t a power pitcher.
rufues
September 25th, 2009
4:29 pm
The best thing Cox, can do is to stop trying to out-guess the opposition, he’ll lose more then he win, and, yes he is a bad tactician, a very bad one. Like someone said, he paids more attention to his nose then he does to the game, if he was competing in a nose picking race, he would blow everyone away.
jerry
September 25th, 2009
4:40 pm
“The inconvenient truth is that most managers, given the same personnel, would make the same moves most of the time.”
So what sets Cox apart?
This: The hallmark of Cox’s teams is that they keep playing. They don’t implode from internal strife. That’s why his teams have finished first more times than any other manager’s in the history of the sport.
I say: BALONEY!
Bo in North Carolina
September 25th, 2009
4:48 pm
How did Keith Lockhart go from playing for the Braves to directing the Boston Pops?
kool$kat
September 25th, 2009
4:53 pm
AMEN!!! Great article Mark! In a few years Bobby Cox will be in the Hall of Fame, and the dilusional so-called fans that think its realistic to be in the playoffs and win the World Series every year will be crying and whining about Bobby’s replacements, no matter how successful they are.
Andy Richter Silver Slugger Award Kirby Puckett
September 25th, 2009
4:53 pm
[...] Bobby Cox a bad tactician? Nope. Just a great manager | Mark Bradley [...]
JEB
September 25th, 2009
5:03 pm
MB: Good Job!
Although I doubt that common sense will prevail among some on the blogs!
Most of these have:
a) never played the game (been spectators their whole lives!)
b) coached little league (therefore they know how to coach and
win always!)
c) sit in front of their televisions @ home with peanuts and beer
constantly frustrated and angry – looking for someone to blame.
d) down at the bar with others of like mind – again living a frustrated
and angry life – each looking for someone to blame for their
frustrations.
e) They have the perfect team in their mind and they should
win 150 games a yr. or else you’re a bum!
f) Have not caught on yet that baseball is a game – a sport, there are
winners and losers each year, and you pull – cheer for your team to
be the ones that win more than they lose each year. When they do
not, you move on with REAL life issues and “wait until next season”
to pull – cheer for your guys again.
g) have a computer – found a way to vent out their frustrations – and
sit there all season doing so (it will not make a difference who is
coach – the same ones will spew their stuff – that’s what they do!
I admire your tenacity to continue to bring “some” common sense to the table – keep it up MB!
wawel78
September 25th, 2009
5:10 pm
Kirby Puckett was 18 for 55 against Leibrandt prior to that HR.
Coach (2010- Mr. overrated retires)
September 25th, 2009
5:49 pm
Um, Drock, if Cox had managed in New York, Boston or L.A. and lost back to back WS like he did with our Braves back in 1991-92……Bobby would have been fired, immediately.
Something else few Braves fans are aware of, Bobby Cox has lost more post season games than any other manager in ML History (66-66 record .500).
Cox’s record in the regular season: 4336-2408 .556
Cox’s record in all post season series : 12-13 .480
Cox’s record in the World Series: 1-4 .200
GatorGrowl
September 25th, 2009
6:00 pm
14 division championships with perhaps the best pitching staffs in the history of the game….and only 1…I say it again…only 1 World Series championship…and not because of anything Cox did but what Glavine and Justice did dispite Bobby Cox. Nice man. Good season manager. Horrible post season manager period…including the HR to Puckett and the perfect example of my thinking. Put LaRussa in Cox’s dugout during the same period and the Braves have 3 or 4 World Series titles…PERIOD.
David W
September 25th, 2009
6:37 pm
In 9 of the 14 Division Title years, the Braves had the best record in the NL. Most of those came before the unbalanced schedule, so Division strength wasn’t that relevant. To translate that for the under 30 crowd, in Casey Stengal’s day, that would have been 9 WS appearances in 14 chances at the post-season. Hard to fire a manager for doing that.
TomB
September 25th, 2009
7:17 pm
Yea, I like Larussa GatorGrowl, but no way we get him in a Braves uniform. Smart guy; Has his law degree and is fluent in Spanish.Now that has got to help communications in today’s dugout.
TomB
September 25th, 2009
7:24 pm
wawel78 : Puckett hitting better than 300 against Leibrandt doesn’t help Marks case now. Anyway, it seems to me that if he struck out twice against him in the first game, and he’s hitting better than 300 in his career, then the odds are against Liebrandt suceeding again, imo.
Mark Bradley
September 25th, 2009
7:27 pm
Smoltz started Game 7 of the World Series. Steve Avery started Game 6.
Dawg Hatin' Jacket
September 25th, 2009
7:37 pm
Here’s the deal. Mark: you are absolutely correct. Bobby Cox is the greatest regular season manager ever. BC haters, you are also correct. Bobby Cox is one of the worst post-season managers ever.
Across a 162-game season, it takes a cool, level head to win and win and win. A team, and by extension the manager, cannot get too high or too low between April and September. Bobby’s style is perfect for this scenario, and he’s the best ever.
But come October, you have to crank up the emotions. You can’t afford the even keel of a long season. You have to win 11 out of 19 (and in the right order). That takes some fire, some spark, something more than “no problem, we’ll get ‘em tomorrow”. Bobby doesn’t know how to throw the switch and turn up the heat, to go with a hunch instead of playing it by the book. And it shows in the Braves’ less than stellar post-season performances. Credit the 1995 World Series win to dominant pitching, not any particular strategic moves Bobby made.
And so he was the best and the worst. All rolled up into one.
DAVEinNEPA
September 25th, 2009
8:25 pm
15 division titles and one WS win is underachievement on a scale never before seen in the annals of baseball.
Bugkiller and Don are right on with their assessments of Bobby’s managing.
TampaGator
September 25th, 2009
8:37 pm
Players love playing for Bobby because having good regular seasons and not winning it all is OK with him.
Jason
September 25th, 2009
8:41 pm
Sorry, Mark, but even as a 10 year old, when I say Leibrandt walking out to the mound to face Puckett, I called homerun. And I was not surprised one bit when it happened.
Sonny Clusters
September 25th, 2009
8:48 pm
Let’s say we was not sure about something and wanted to look it up on the internet and all we had with us was an iPhone. We could take out that iPhone and ring up the internet and type in our search and find what we was looking for. Now, say we was a nose picker and had been using that iPhone for quite awhile and it was a little greasy from nose picking. Say we was a major league manager and we needed to make a call to the bullpen and when we tried to call on the iPhone something was covering up the numbers and we couldn’t see what we was calling and we ended up calling Frank Wren or Mark Bradley just by pushing on a booger. That’s what’s been wrong and we hope it gets fixed.
CharlieAlphaBravo
September 25th, 2009
8:52 pm
Mr. Bradley, I’d have to say that’s the best article I’ve ever read by you… Kudos!
Observer37
September 25th, 2009
8:59 pm
EHaven’t read any of the prior posts tonight, so guess I’ll step into a deep hole!
- To all the Braves apologist, relax and enjoy the chase! How long has it been?
- Notwithstanding the above, just think where we might be now if our GM had picked up a bat or a couple of bats at the trading deadline! And despite what all believe, there were some bargains out there that would not have cost us any real prospects. Oh well, the brains had already pitched in. Surprise!!
- Mark, no need to try to justify the spring training report, or lack of report. Most with any real understanding know that the latest report(s) are suspect for whatever reason.
- Thanks for the “time to go” pieces. Don’t know if they had any influence, but your timing was spot on.
- I will half way apologize for my Bark Maddley posts in the past. You seem to be half way balanced this year. Jury is out. I’ll give you a total apology later this year if appropriate.
- Years ago thought you were a UGA Grady graduate- now know that is wrong. I wrote sports for a local paper in Atlanta in the 1960’s-70’s and considered Grady, but went to GT for a more lucrative career. Thankfully, it worked out.
nter your comments here
Observer37
September 25th, 2009
9:00 pm
Haven’t read any of the prior posts tonight, so guess I’ll step into a deep hole!
- To all the Braves apologist, relax and enjoy the chase! How long has it been?
- Notwithstanding the above, just think where we might be now if our GM had picked up a bat or a couple of bats at the trading deadline! And despite what all believe, there were some bargains out there that would not have cost us any real prospects. Oh well, the brains had already pitched in. Surprise!!
- Mark, no need to try to justify the spring training report, or lack of report. Most with any real understanding know that the latest report(s) are suspect for whatever reason.
- Thanks for the “time to go” pieces. Don’t know if they had any influence, but your timing was spot on.
- I will half way apologize for my Bark Maddley posts in the past. You seem to be half way balanced this year. Jury is out. I’ll give you a total apology later this year if appropriate.
- Years ago thought you were a UGA Grady graduate- now know that is wrong. I wrote sports for a local paper in Atlanta in the 1960’s-70’s and considered Grady, but went to GT for a more lucrative career. Thankfully, it worked out.
MtnDawg
September 25th, 2009
9:36 pm
Braves win! Hooray!
Keeper
September 25th, 2009
9:57 pm
HT, you were precisely who I was thinking of in my line about irrelevant nobodies whining – no, begging – for attention. You couldn’t make it more obvious if you were trying to. Keep on crying, and this tool/chump will happily keep enjoying the Braves and Cox. Adios!
Who knew
September 25th, 2009
10:14 pm
why try and argue with some of these professed experts on Cox being a bad manager…
they are like the mental giants who keep talk radio alive with their wacko beliefs and conspiracy theories, they don’t see logic or the truth..
Anyone who is even remotely involved in MLB knows the truth about Bobby, he is one of the best managers in baseball history, a few wingnuts who frequent these blogs under various names don’t a majority make, no matter how often or fervently they bray…
Realistic Fan
September 25th, 2009
11:46 pm
I’m a Bobby Cox fan. I think he has been an outstanding manager. That being said, I do think he has sometimes made some poor tactical decisions. I was at a game in the early 90s against the Padres. The score was tied in the top of the ninth. Runner on second and one or no outs. Tony Gwynn at the plate and Benito Santiago on deck. The Braves had a lefty in the game so Bobby allowed him to pitch to Gwynn instead of walking him. Tony ripped into the gap to score what would be the winning run. I never understood why Bobby did not walk Gwynn and pitch to Santiago (who was among the lead leaders for hitting into double plays). The Braves may have lost the game anyway, but Bobby’s move sealed the deal.
Having said that, I still think Bobby has other strengths that are equally as important as game strategy. He manages personnel better than anyone in the game. That says a lot. I also think he is a great teacher of the game to younger players. The Braves are fortunate to have him.
GaC
September 26th, 2009
3:33 am
Bobby is seldom the bride and sometimes not even the bridesmaid. I’d rather haver fewer divisional wins and more World Series wins ala Joe Torre. So Leibrant was more effective against righties than lefties. How had Pucket done against either side for the season – well???? And yes Sparky Anderson was wrong to have a boob like Pat Darcy (a spot starter) pitching in late innings when he had the great bullpen of Eastwick, McInny, Bourbon, and Clay Carol – dam straight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tony C.
September 26th, 2009
6:42 am
Mark- Defend the decision in the instance brought up by jarvis @ 10:21
That’s the one that sticks in my craw.
But the habit I find most annoying (and yet is the reason he gets such great performances from nearly every player) is his steadfast loyalty/belief/hope in his players-here’s a scene that’s all-too familiar
pitcher’s getting sloppy, has been hit hard to make his last two outs, has just walked the next batter and is down 3-0 to the next.
Does he send his catcher to the mound to try and ease some pressure? or his pitching coach?
Nope.
Bobby waits ti the pitcher has loaded the bases and then calls in his most trusted reliever (many of whom get torched in the postseason for some strange reason) who gets out of the jam but gives up the tying and go-ahead run.
He drives me nuts.
But I’d love to see him manage this club for so long he needs a hover-round to go out and chew the umps out.
JD
September 26th, 2009
6:45 am
Having been in attendance at the home games against Toronto, and watching the others on TV, I contend that the Braves lost that series because Toronto guarded the line and Atlanta did not. They had numersous hits down the line and the Braves had few. That was an error in Bobby Cox’s straegy that cost the Braves the series.
p
September 26th, 2009
6:52 am
Yeah Bobby, let’s pitch to Ryan Howard some more. We’d be the wildcard team if we had any other manager. Please retire THIS year.
DC Braves Fan
September 26th, 2009
6:55 am
To be balanced, you should have noted that Kirby was hitting .400 or very close to it that season off of lefties. That means that the fact that Leibrandt got him out two times isn’t a reliable indicator that he would get him out the next time up. Leibrandt should have gotten Puckett out 3 out of every 5 times. But if you keep tempting fate, it’ll bite you.
I love Bobby. That was a bad move.
zorba
September 26th, 2009
7:03 am
Enter your comments here
Mark, since Cox is staying another year I guess you had to do a “make up” story to stay in his good graces. Such a politician you are!
jerry
September 26th, 2009
8:42 am
The biggest factor is the lack of the DH in the NL. The DH gives you another stick and doesn’t adversely affect the pitching staff since you never have to pinch hit for the pitcher. Think of it, if the Braves could add another stick right now and drop the worst pitcher on the staff, would they not be a stronger team? And there would be no need for Greg Norton.
Atticus
September 26th, 2009
9:07 am
He was a very good manager. He gave the Braves a lot of consistency in getting to the playoffs.
HOWEVER, winning that many division titles is should not be the measure of success. That simply means you are better than 4 other teams. That is ridicuolus to have that as your measure because it’s only 4 teams and you can’t control or how poor they are.
To me the measure is World Series appearances and wins. He did a great job in the 90s getting us there. 1996 against the Yankees forever doomed him and it wasn’t his fault. It began with Wohlers but other things happened too. If he’d have won that series and won back-to-back, the arguement would’ve been easier because he could’ve been forgiven for all the other stuff people question, like Lockhart etc…losing to worse teams like the Cubs, Phillies and Marlins.
He is a Hall-of-Fame manager but you really have to TRY and lose when you go to the playoffs THAT many years and only win one.
Poorbrave
September 26th, 2009
11:21 am
Mark your opinion is just that. Do you believe you can change the opinion of all those that differ with you on Bobby Cox? I’ve watched the Braves 42 years and you couldn’t change my opinion on any of their managers in that period. They’ve had some good ones and bad but the players made the difference. Good players make great managers. You can’t say another manager wouldn’t have done as well or better than Cox. Thats opinion.
My opinion is Cox has had his glory days………..I believe he could have done alot better……when he put in Leibrandt I told my wife it was over……..many other times when he made stupid moves everyone knew what was going to happen, you can feel it…. but not Cox. Frankly I’ll be damn glad when he’s gone and you can bet your sweet a@@ I will never ever wish him back.
I do hope management is smart enought to hire a good Manager so some of the smart a@@ on here want start that crap.
We may agree on these- Mills, Jose Oquendo, John Farrell, Greg Walker hitting coach white Sox, would be great picks to follow BC. Hell no to TP!
curtis jones
September 26th, 2009
11:51 am
Is Bobby Cox a great manager? You tell me. First half of the 2009 season: in the lineup…Jeff Francoeur, Kelly Johnson, Casey Kotchman, Jordan Schafer. On the bench: Matt Diaz, Martin Prado, Omar Infante (when he was healthy).
I don’t even have to get into bullpen overuse/mismanagement, Norton, Chipper batting 3rd until he draws his pension, etc. do I?
Bill
September 26th, 2009
12:45 pm
Agree Curtis Jones. If not for what C. Jones said above happen, Braves would be in play-off. Great mgr screw up. Wait till 2011.
Ray
September 26th, 2009
12:46 pm
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again….Bobby Cox is one of the greatest baseball managers of all time. He has built a winning tradition that the city of Atlanta, State of Georgia, the Southeastern U.S., as well as all of baseball can be proud of. Thank you Bobby Cox for what you have done. You are definitely a “Hall of Fame” manager. Don’t listen to all the nasayers who just like to complain because you, like all the rest of us, are not perfect. We all make mistakes, every single one of us. Sure Bobby has made some mistakes but, overall, he has been an awesome manager we can and should be proud of. Bobby, I’m glad you are staying next year. Hope you can stay as the Braves manager many more years after that. I’m close to the same age you are and, yes, we’ve still got some more gas in the tank. Go Bobby!!!!!
Dr. Warren
September 26th, 2009
2:04 pm
Cox’s Braves brought plenty of regular season satisfaction but too much post-season pain to be remembered joyfully. In fact, the Mighty Braves of the 90’s were responsible for 2 of the 3 most painful events in Atlanta sports history: (1) the loss to the Twins in extra innings via a base-running error and (2) the Leyritz home run and subsequent collapse against the Yankees in ‘96. The third? The Falcons playoff collapse against Dallas in January 1981, of course.
THE WORLD BIGGEST NUTTZ
September 26th, 2009
2:09 pm
I DONT WANT TO TALK ABOUT BUBBA COX, ID RATHER TALK ABOUT WHAT SELLS PAPERS….MICHAEL VICK! I TRIED TO TALK ABOUT THIS ON YOUR MATTIE LICE STORY BECAUSE EVERY BODY ELSE WAS TALKING ABOUT VICK. WHAT CAN WE DO TO GET VICK BACK!
Ray
September 26th, 2009
2:43 pm
Let’s not focus on the things Bobby has done wrong, which are few. Let’s focus on all the things he has done right which makes him one of the great baseball managers of all time. Can anyone name a professional baseball manager who hasn’t made some mistakes along the way? Why don’t you nasayers look at the mistakes you have made in life and give Bobby a break? He’s not perfect but he’s one of the best ever.
tjhook
September 26th, 2009
3:10 pm
I’m going to throw my support behind Bugkiller about Cox’s questionable attitude in the playoffs, but I’m writing to say I’m thankful to have people not talk about trading Vazquez. I personally think Prado should be the MVP of the team, but Vazquez has been awesome (being particularly tough down the stretch – something Guillen said he lacked) and Cox has to have been a part of that to some degree. Frank Wren for Executive of the Year (Vazquez, Laroche, McClouth . . . Church!). Believe that!!
Navigator
September 26th, 2009
4:28 pm
You can throw out the loss to Minnesota, as we know now they cheated their way to two World Series championships, by changing the flow of the vent system (blowing in 15 mph against Braves), blowing out (15 mph) when Minnesota was batting. The situation is so bad that Baseball has a standing rule that only a Baseball representative can control the air flow during a playoff game. I guess in Minnesota winning overrules fair play and honesty.
Antonio Gramsci
September 26th, 2009
4:37 pm
I was in the press conference before the first Braves home world series game in 1991. I asked Leo if Charlie would pitch again in the series and he indignantly answered “Yes!” (Did he know any other way to answer a question?) (And btw, my question and Leo’s answer was the lead in the Braves notebook the next day in the AJC.) Do you recall what happened to make me ask that question? No velocity and poor location Charlie got tagged by GREG FREAKING GAGNE who had 8 homers all year (he hit 111 homers over 15 seasons, so you couldn’t exactly consider him a power threat now, could you?). Charlie’s line: 7 hits, 4 earned runs in 4 innings. You want to trot out numbers, Mark? Do you like those numbers?
I don’t care about Cox as a tactical manager, and I’ve never come on your blog to either slate him or praise him, but he blew that decision and your attempt to justify it is just silly.
GREAT BIG NUTTZ
September 26th, 2009
5:22 pm
yeah bubba cox blew it in the world series.What a lose to be in the series or championship game to come up empty so many times. What a loser. We only won one and that was because of David justice. HEY WHAT ABOUT MICHAEL VICK? IS IT TRUE THAT THE FALCONS ARE OFFERING MATTIE LICE AND NORWOOD FOR VICK? It makes sense because mattie lice cant consistantly sell out the stadium like VICK. BTW Bradley how many Vick jerseys do you own?
THE WORLD BIGGEST NUTTZ
September 26th, 2009
5:26 pm
Yeah the lastest rumor has Mattie lice and a second rounder for Vick if the Eagles can get him under a long term contract.
confederate flag waver
September 26th, 2009
5:29 pm
We will never have Vick hear again because a black man cant be quarterback. We may use him as a running back if he acts right
confederate flag waver
September 26th, 2009
5:29 pm
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