Bradley’s Buzz: Is there tension between Cox and Wren?
And now the question: Is seamlessness still the order of the day at 755 Hank Aaron Drive?
Esteemed former colleague Gordon Edes writes on Yahoo! Sports that a rift may have developed between Bobby Cox and Frank Wren. From Edes’ report:
“Another situation that bears watching is in Atlanta, where manager Bobby Cox has been hedging about whether he will be back. According to a major league source, the relationship between Cox and GM Frank Wren deteriorated during the spring to the point that Cox packed his bag and climbed into his car to drive home from spring training until dissuaded from doing so by one of his coaches.
“Cox was unhappy at the way the John Smoltz issue had been handled, the source said, and because he had not been kept up to speed on other personnel decisions. The relationship appears to have been patched up, although the parting with Tom Glavine was another strained episode, and the expectation is that Cox will be back because he’s excited that the Braves have another core of young talent developing. Stay tuned.”
Reached by phone Tuesday night, Wren described the report as “inaccurate.” But it’s fair to say that the relationship between Cox and Wren hasn’t been as seamless — to use a John Schuerholz word — as the one between Cox and Wren’s predecessor as GM. Cox and Schuerholz talked almost daily, even in the offseason, and rarely disagreed on anything.
That said, Cox was complimentary of Wren’s rebuilding work over the winter. “He’s done everything, really,” Cox said then, and this, it should be noted, came after Smoltz signed with Boston. But it also must be noted that even Schuerholz was so distressed by the way the Braves cut ties with Glavine that he offered an apology on behalf of the organization.
Asked Tuesday if he wanted Cox to remain the Braves’ manager, Wren said: “Sure, absolutely.” And this: “We’ll sit down and talk, and we’ll have an announcement at the appropriate time.”
Update: Bobby Cox responds to the Yahoo! report.
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159 comments Add your comment
AUG24
September 22nd, 2009
8:37 pm
It is time for Cox to go. Wren has done a good job of rebuilding the pitching staff. The decisions on Glavine and Smoltz weren’t handled properly but they seem to be the best “business decisions.” Tommy Hanson took Glavine’s spot in the rotation, so no argument there. I love John Smoltz but Boston saw enough. Greg Maddux didn’t whine when the Braves didn’t offer him a contract.
Jurrjens4NLCY {Knoble.MLBlogs.com}
September 22nd, 2009
8:42 pm
Thanks for stirring the pot Bradley, you can crawl back under your hole now…
The Grinch
September 22nd, 2009
8:42 pm
Let’s hope the announcement will happen right after the post season that Cox kept us out of, and it will involve the hiring of a new manager not named Terry Pendleton. I DO hope Cox stays on in some capacity; he’s a fine fellow and I don’t want to see him unceremoniously sent packing. Just for god’s sake keep the lineup card and in game decision making out of his control. Maybe he could replace Chip Carey in the booth and we’d really be in business.
Jurrjens4NLCY {Knoble.MLBlogs.com}
September 22nd, 2009
8:43 pm
Lol. Just kidding, It just popped into my head, I’m sorry…
Black pot
September 22nd, 2009
8:44 pm
Keep stirring … .keep stirring
QuickQuestion_Maggie
September 22nd, 2009
8:45 pm
…and NOBODY from the esteemed Atlanta reporting corp noticed that…or bothered to report that? The manager is in his car ready to go to Adairsville, – and that’s not newsworthy? Hmmmmmmm…..
Gov Clinton Tyree
September 22nd, 2009
8:46 pm
Wow. Mark, how credible is Gordon Edes? Why haven’t we heard anything about this prior to now?
I think Wren is a far better talent evaluator than he is a PR or relationship person, but this is surprising. Quite frankly, I think Frank may have a better reason to be upset with Bobby than Bobby with Frank, since a team with this kind of pitching ought to be in the playoffs.
No, he wasn’t smooth in dealing with Glavine or Smoltz, but honestly, does anyone think maybe the players’ personalities had anything to do with the rift? Wren made the tough decisions.
Might be time to make one with Bobby. Doubt he will; doubt he could even if he wanted to. Still, this is surprising.
The Grinch
September 22nd, 2009
8:46 pm
Btw, Mark; I’m impressed with your intestinal fortitude lately. Atlanta was (and still is) the softest media town in the entire country, but you’ve been the first to come out and say what everyone else in the state has been screaming forever: Cox and Willie Martinez need to go. Willie, however, does NOT need ceremony, nor the offer to stay on in some capacity. Just a swift kick in the #$% onto a one way bus.
Mark Bradley
September 22nd, 2009
8:48 pm
I wouldn’t call someone an esteemed former colleague if I didn’t have high regard for that person. Gordon Edes is a real pro who has worked at the L.A. Times, the Boston Globe, the National — and the AJC.
AUG24
September 22nd, 2009
8:50 pm
Frank Wren has a little Thomas Dimitroff in him. They both remove “the emotion” when they make decisions. The one big mistake that Wren made was giving Chipper that 42 million extension. He won’t last two more years as an everyday player. Maybe, Chipper will take a salary cut to help sign his buddy “La Roche.” That will be interesting.
AUG24
September 22nd, 2009
8:51 pm
Mark, do you think the Braves will resign LaRoche?
Mark Bradley
September 22nd, 2009
8:54 pm
And Governor, I’d contend that the Smoltz and Glavine situations were different. Smoltz chose to sign with another team. The Braves seemed in a hurry to cut Glavine when I’m not sure they had to be. They met with him before a game and announced he’d been cut an hour later. Even if the decision was correct — and it was — they could have taken a bit more time and care.
Herschel Talker
September 22nd, 2009
8:55 pm
Let’s hope there’s some tension. Then maybe Wren will FIRE BOOBY!!!
buckhead benny
September 22nd, 2009
8:56 pm
This has been Bobby Cox’s worst year and it is time for him to go- He is incapable of managing without his emotions and has become too much of a players coach. He got away with it when 3 hall of fame pitchers had his back- he could get away with it- He can’t anymore- It is too much of a chess match dictatated on shrewd moves such as Frank Wren-
Everything Frank Wren has done in my opinion has been masterful- Cutting Smoltz and Glavine- Masterful- Replaced with Vasquez, Lowe, Kamacoochi, and Hanson- then Adam Laroche, Nate Mclouth, even trading Francouer for Church- This is a much better team because of him not Bobby-
We would only be one game out if Bobby would have let Hanson pitch the 9th and Hanson would be rookie of the year- That was an easy decision- hanson hadn’t even reached 100 pitches and was totally dominant-
This is where Bobby messed up and we would have clinched the division- 1.Playing Jordan Shafer almost every ball game for a half a season when it was clear he was a lost puppy in the majors- Why not just give away 4 outs every single game (any body that could at least work the count) = 3 extra wins
2. Kelly Johnson- for whatever reason it was apparent to everyone after a quarter of the season if not early that Kelley was too easy an out for opponents and you had better options backing him up with Martin Prado and Omar infante- This decision should have been made much sooner= 4 extra wins with a better bat at the beginning of the lineup that can take pitches and get on base-
3. Jeff Francouer- I understand trying to show confidence in Jeff so maybe he would get back on track- he should have platooned him at least with Matt Diaz- =3 extra wins
Since the above have been switched out this has been a much better lineup and I personally don’t believe Bobby Cox had anything to do with it- I believe Jeff Francouer, Kelly Johnson, and even Jordan Shafer would still be in your starting lineup if not for Frank Wren.
My point is this- its not a popularity contest and if Bobby had the balls and would have done it sooner the Braves would be sitting in the playoffs. their only 5 games out with the number 3 pitching staff in baseball it could have been done if he would have addressed arguably the 3 easiest outs in all of baseball at the time- francouer, kelley johnson, and jordan shafer along with your pitcher the opposing team had 4 easy outs every single game- You can only afford one easy out a game in addition to your pitcher MAX-
Bobby got away with it when you have Maddux, Smoltz, and Glavine giving up 1-2 runs every game- He won’t be able to it again-
Tim and Jim
September 22nd, 2009
8:56 pm
MR WREN please bring back Garrett Anderson for next year, he has done a good job for us this year.
AUG24
September 22nd, 2009
8:59 pm
I totally agree with Buckhead Benny. Well, said.
Gov Clinton Tyree
September 22nd, 2009
9:02 pm
Point taken on Glavine and Smoltz, Mark. Actually, I think the mistake with Glavine was signing him at all. With Smoltz, I hang that one on the player. He wasn’t worth more than $2.5m guaranteed and Wren made the offer he should have within the bounds of fiscal responsibility. But I still love him and am glad he figured it out with the Cards.
The Red Sox seem to be having some problems getting guys to perform up there. You’d think somebody up there would have figured out Smoltz was tipping his pitches. He was throwing 93 and his splitter was splitting and his slider was sliding…Lugo isn’t the turd he appeared to be…maybe they could have used a bat like LaRoche’s…
Any chance Jason Bay doesn’t resign with them?
it's time
September 22nd, 2009
9:02 pm
Bobby Cox has been a great manager over the years, but it is time for a new direction. With all the starting pitching they have this year, they have under achieved. And don’t get me going on Cox’s use of that great pinch hitter Greg (no hit) Norton…………
Realist
September 22nd, 2009
9:05 pm
In a fight between frank wren and bobby cox, I’ll root for more flooding.
JASon
September 22nd, 2009
9:08 pm
It is a D-I-S-G-R-A-C-E that this team is not in the playoffs, and Bobby is primarily the one to blame. Wren, on the other hand, did a brilliant job this season.
JTH
September 22nd, 2009
9:09 pm
“No, he wasn’t smooth in dealing with Glavine or Smoltz, but honestly, does anyone think maybe the players’ personalities had anything to do with the rift? Wren made the tough decisions.”
That’s right on the money. Glavine and Smoltz are the super competitive bulldog types in everything they do, and Wren is a cool, rational business first decision maker. Fire and Ice. It was bound to get ugly with hurt feelings all around. Especially Cox’s with his loyal to fault personality.
In the end though it will all work out. The Braves rotation for next year will once again be one of the best in baseball. I’d rather have Hanson and Jair than Smoltz and Glavine at this point in time.
If the Braves get a big bat or two and a better bench they can be serious contenders next season.
Gov Clinton Tyree
September 22nd, 2009
9:11 pm
JTH, if the Braves get One Big Bat, they can take it to the house.
This is a damn good team, just ran out of time. Couldn’t outrun that first half.
RC35
September 22nd, 2009
9:13 pm
When we look at the Braves, we’re sort of like the old story of the blind men feeling the elephant–we all start at different places. Someone mentioned Greg Maddux “not whining”. Remember that Greg got arbitration–and $14 million for his last year as a Brave, as I recall. Then, he signed a lucrative contract elsewhere and continued to pitch until last year. Smoltz and Glavine were both treated with contempt unbecoming the Atlanta legends they had been. Smoltz was offered a subpar contract for someone of his status and it boggles the mind to think how much better off we could have been with him in the bullpen instead of Soriano. I know he had a rough stretch with the Sox, but most of the runs scored against him came after the 4th inning–something a one-or two-inning reliever wouldn’t face. Glavine did everything he was asked to do, going through rehab and the whole bit, then was dropped unceremoniously like a .150 pinch-hitter. No–they KEPT the .150 pinch-hitter–I keep forgetting!
Baseball is both a sport and a business, but from the fan side, emotion is an inescapable component of the big picture. Mr. Wren seems to keep himself aloof from any relationship with the fans and never seems to evince any sense of sympathy with our feelings for the team or individual players. No one could make everybody happy, but he could at least make a few public statements to fans acknowledging our existence, or respond to signed letters such as the one I wrote him in April. At the moment, I’d recommend him for the Marie Antoinette “Let Them Eat Cake” Award for being out of touch with his clientele.
I am glad that the Atlanta sports writers are suddenly willing to discuss the future of the manager and front office. It needs to be in the public square for commentary, and I appreciate the opportunity to weigh in.
NRBQ
September 22nd, 2009
9:13 pm
Bobby’s leaving?
This has been my hope since his catastrophic mismanagement of the ‘91 World Series.
Long-suffering? That’s me.
buckhead benny
September 22nd, 2009
9:13 pm
Another pt- Frank Wren should be GM of the year in my opinion he has took a horrible pitching staff and made some incredibly unpopular moves and they have equaled not only short term success for the Braves (3rd lowest era in the majors is not an easy accomplishment in one year) and retooled First base, Second Base, Left Field, Center Field, and Right Field.
His worst decision in my opinion has been signing Dereck Lowe and even that isn’t bad- and we didn’t give up any of our farm system to do it-
I know everyone loves Bobby and including me, but 4 years of not making the playoffs just because you don’t want to retire and hang out with your wife every day. Don’t hold us hostage to this bulls–t.
If anybody really thinks that when Bobby put in his lineup and at the top you had j shaffer- .200
kelley johnson- .205. j. francouer, .245- and your pitcher? how do you expect to win games with a lineup like that- Everyone knows that are starting pitchers should have more wins- Blame Bobby for playing his favorites every game and worried that Jeff Francouer would cried his eyes out if he was benched-
brent a.
September 22nd, 2009
9:15 pm
Not sure how Bradley is “stirring the pot”. Edes wrote the article in question, not Bradley.
Bradley, OTOH, went to Wren and asked him about the report and got a response.
Really vicious stuff, here, on the part of Bradley.
BeachBum
September 22nd, 2009
9:16 pm
Cox needs to hang it up and head to the golf course. He gets thrown out of every other game and his teams lack a bunch of things that managers should teach. Hire a younger manager who knows the current game. 1 title in 20 years is not going to cut it.
Herschel Talker
September 22nd, 2009
9:17 pm
MB – excellent points on Smoltz and Glavine. Nevertheless, in the end they were the right decisions (despite the manner in which the Glavine one was done, which could have obviously been better). This is more example of Cox’s loyalty to his players. It’s admirable in the cases of Glavine and Smoltz, gamers who were here a long time. But he carries his loyalty shenanigans too far with everyone else, and it has cost the team dearly. That is why Booby has to go.
Gov Clinton Tyree
September 22nd, 2009
9:19 pm
brent, what I don’t like is that we’ve got beat writers and I would think that if Bobby packed his car and was ready to leave until somebody (Chino? Eddie? Hub?) talked him out of it, SOMETHING should have come out before September. And in the AJC, not from a national guy. That’s a little harsh, but that’s how I see it.
TB
September 22nd, 2009
9:24 pm
Mark, you rattle off those newspaper names like they’re something to be proud of….
JTH
September 22nd, 2009
9:27 pm
Give MB a bigger spoon.
Bobby’s managing this year was bad, even for him and I’d agree that he’s the reason we didnt make the playoffs. The first half wait and see with certain guys. Then the just awful bullpen decisions, and Norton. Bam! Zoom!
kenneth
September 22nd, 2009
9:37 pm
Glavine was done and it was time for Smoltz to go. I bet Cox will be upset if Wren doesn’t re-sign Greg Norton too! If he packed up and left spring training they should have let him go. The organization isn’t going to fall apart if he leaves. All these so called professionals ( Glavine, Smoltz, now Cox, and sometimes even Chipper) who make millions of dollars and whine about everything that doesn’t go their way.
Anybody that plays Norton as much as Cox does and runs players off who have a pulse and don’t do things the Braves way, shouldn’t be complaining about personnel moves.
Reid Adair
September 22nd, 2009
9:45 pm
Does anyone honestly think it isn’t at least possible, if not likely, that this is true? Frank Wren put together a pitching staff that was great for 2009, but will not be in tact for 2010 (I think more than one of this year’s starters will be gone). I won’t even start with the “offense” options that Wren gave Cox.
I am not surprised that Wren denied any issues with Cox when asked. Wren has lied to the public and the fans before; this is nothing new for him.
It won’t surprise me a bit if Cox calls it quits after 2009, and it will disappoint me that he has too much class to express his disdain for Wren when he does walk away.
Sonny Clusters
September 22nd, 2009
9:47 pm
If he’d crunk that car and drove off the Braves might be in the playoffs. We was never sure why somebody’d want to be GM and not be able to hire his own manager.
Poorbrave
September 22nd, 2009
9:47 pm
Bobbys excited that the Braves have a core of young Talent developing…………….may stay?
That’e one of the reasons Bobby needs to go home. There will always be young talent in system. Bobby don’t need to screw them up. For the love of the Lord please retire BC. Enough is enough.
Man why didn’t they let him leave in Spring training and we would have done better this year.
Frank let him leave or move him upstairs but let his a@@ be gone. I pray.
Kevrock/Smarty Jones
September 22nd, 2009
9:48 pm
At first I thought some of Wren’s moves were terrible BUT it turned out he knew more than all of us. His moves were excellent as the team had showed. Now for Bobby Cox it’s been over 10 years since we should have moved him upstairs. Seriously, Bozo the clown could have won with Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz and Avery (before he blew his arm out). The Braves are really just REGULAR SEASON Dynasty. Our division was a joke for 7 years. When you get used to losing in the playoffs it is time to get a brimstone manager to light some fires. Leyland would have won us 2 more World Series. Folks it’s just the facts. Now for the Gordon Edes. He is a EXCELLENT scribe for baseball. He is a legit source and one day might make the hall in the writer section.
Poorbrave
September 22nd, 2009
9:52 pm
Frank Wren should be GM of the Year!
Now hire your own manager and finish the job.
Colossas
September 22nd, 2009
9:52 pm
The Braves beat writers writing anything remotely negative! PULLEEESE!
willie
September 22nd, 2009
9:53 pm
I am very glad to hear that Cox was not happy with the way Smoltz and Glavine were treated. It’s not that the Braves should have brought them back, it is the way they handled both cases. Very cold. I didn’t like it at all, and glad to hear Cox didn’t either.
Sonny Clusters
September 22nd, 2009
9:55 pm
We did a little free lancing at the Globe and we can tell you it’s a pretty good rag. That said, even the Weekly Reader would report the manager getting in his car to go home. Frank Wren should not be saddled with a nose picking manager. Frank wears expensive suits and no one wants to get a booger on a nice suit. Let’s hope Bobby will heed the discontent from the new homeboy upstairs and move his act to the puppy farm.
Used to care
September 22nd, 2009
10:02 pm
That is a true story about spring training.
Used to care
September 22nd, 2009
10:03 pm
Unless it’s not.
CJ Dawg
September 22nd, 2009
10:05 pm
Cox could stick his finger in his ear and pull out more class than Wren has in his whole life. I stick with BC all the way.
Stoph
September 22nd, 2009
10:05 pm
Wren is an A-hole. He’s botched the dealings with future HOF Glavine and Smoltz. He’s too cocky for the likes of Atlanta and the Braves. If he screws up the deal with – yet another future HOF – Cox, I say we run his butt out of town and let him go join up with Dancing with the “not so famous” stars.
Dr. Phil
September 22nd, 2009
10:06 pm
Frank Wren has a little Mike Adams in him, however the trade for Roache was a good one.
Sonny Clusters
September 22nd, 2009
10:07 pm
We was noticing that Matt Diaz runs pretty hard to first base. Doesn’t anybody holler, “easy” to him? We was thinking when an infielder bobbles a ball the runner might be safe if he’s running all out. When we was playing ball Coach would always tell us to run through the base and watch the base coach. Reading this story about Bobby getting in his car to come home from spring training takes a little away from the lucky underpants story. We was waiting to hear some more about Brian McCann getting hurt. Did he see lightning bugs like Chipper?
NO MORE BOBBY
September 22nd, 2009
10:08 pm
Sounds like Wren is going to give Bobby one more year and nothing else. Can we go ahead and just offer the nothing else now?
Ocee
September 22nd, 2009
10:10 pm
Enter your comments here
Frank Wren may be a good baseball man, but I question his professionalism. Smoltz and Glavine didn’t deserve to be treated the way they were by Frank Wren. Mr. Wren sure didn’t show professionalism at the state baseball playoffs last year.
Capitol Avenue Cal
September 22nd, 2009
10:10 pm
I have to agree with CJ Dawg…until someone proves differently, Bobby’s the man.
njbraves
September 22nd, 2009
10:16 pm
Posts, claiming Bobby is the reason this team isn’t going to the playoffs, are laughable. I guess it has nothing to do with all the games the offense didn’t show up for. Some of the people on here are too dumb for their own good.
torre
September 22nd, 2009
10:18 pm
Enter your comments here
Fire the coach who talked him into staying!
White Blood Cells
September 22nd, 2009
10:23 pm
Mark,
Regarding your 8:54 post. I kind of disagree. They were giving Glavine as much time as they could to prove he could still pitch. Glavine was delayed an additional 2 weeks when he injured himself swinging a bat. The organization simply could not pay him an additional 1 million dollars to continue his rehab. I’m sure during the meeting this was explained and they probably offered him a nice celebration which I bet he declined.
Rob
September 22nd, 2009
10:25 pm
Goodbye Bobby!
Yes he’s won a bunch of games but can’t coach when it counts. Torre or LaRussa would have hand a handful of World Champion rings instead of only one.
Philthy
September 22nd, 2009
10:26 pm
As a life long Braves fan, I have to admit, I’d like to see Bobby retire. But hear me out; It’s not that I dont like him. Bobby is (at least partially) responsible for the legacy of Atlanta baseball. The recent years have provided a changing of the gaurd for the organization. With Wren stepping in and Schuerholz stepping down, it was only a matter of time before other “Big” changed would be made (either by force or decision) I believe with the core of young players that Atlanta currently employs, keeping a manager that we know for a fact wont be coaching much longer is only a mistake. It’s my Band-Aid theory; The faster it’s done, the quicker the pain subsides. I believe the sooner Bobby steps down and a new manager is hired, the sooner every fan can start to truly beleive in a winning team. Sure would be nice to hang another 14 straight division banners around the house that Cox built.
Bill Heller
September 22nd, 2009
10:29 pm
Bobby Cox doesn’t have anything to prove – and Frank Wren does.
CLIFF
September 22nd, 2009
10:30 pm
It is past time for a managerial change.Maybe Tony Larussa.I hear he might be available
PMC
September 22nd, 2009
10:44 pm
It is difficult to progress when one foot is squarely in the past while the other attempts to move forward.
Mitch C
September 22nd, 2009
10:49 pm
Mark, while I know I’ve been posting on here that I feel this should be Bobby’s last year, I’m beginning to think that the “Dump Bobby” kick is getting a little too much, for all of us.
Lest us not forget, that whether Bobby decides to retire, or is not offered a contract for 2010, our new manager, whoever he is, will not win fourteen straight division titles, over 2000 games, and Manager of the Year multiple times. I do think that the Braves definitely underachieved this year, and should have won the wild card, but it seems to me that the writers and fans bantering on here, should be reserved for a team that should have won the division, and ended up losing 100 games. This team was picked to finish second, or third, behind the Phillies, and maybe, the Metsm had they stayed healthy. As it will turn out, we will likely finish in the mid to high 80s for wins, and nearly fifteen games better than last year.
I know this is a sports blog, and that we’re all going to debate this ad nasueam, 100 ways to Sunday, but, maybe, just maybe, after over twenty years at the helm, fourteen straight division titles, more than 2000 wins, etc, does Bobby deserve for us to let him finish out the season as best he can, before we write every day musing whether he’s not going to have a job next year?
If you think I’m wrong, tell me, Mark, but I’m just wondering if we’re all spinning this a little too much, considering that if Bobby does leave, it is not like any average manager departing, considering his accomplishments, and just maybe, we should wait, until something actually does happen, and he is gone, if thats the case, to spin it round and round.
Frank Schilling
September 22nd, 2009
10:50 pm
Enter your comments here
I think both Bobby and Chipper will both be back for one more year – then retire together. The Braves look too good next year for either of them to go and don’t see the Cox getting fired; Scheuerholtz won’t let it happen.
Deacons10
September 22nd, 2009
10:51 pm
Wren is ajackass who has gotten lucky with some of the moves he has made. I agree that it is time for Bobby to move on but he has earned another year. Braves will finish with around 90 wins which is excellent. Losing in April with Johnson, and Schaefer is not why they are 5 back today. How about getting swept at home by the Reds?
Yes Wrenn put together a solid team but think about where we would be if he had gotten Furcal, or if San Diego had agreed to trade Peavey for Escobar and a host of others. The Braves overpaid for Lowe and Kawakami and now they have a big decision to make beacuse I don’t think either are tradeable without the Braves eating a considerable amount of their remaining salaries (won’t happen), which means to get a decent OF Bat PLUS resiging LaRoach (Braves are absoltuely stupid if they don’t do this even though he doesn’t start hitting until mid-June) and either Gonzo or Soriano, you probably have to trade Huddy and possibly even Vazquez to free enough money assuming the team payroll remains at $97 million for 2010. Remember that Diaz, Chipper and McCann will get raises as well, not to mention the other arbitration players.
Sunshine
September 22nd, 2009
10:52 pm
Can someone please fire the donk?! We cant get rid of this guy!
Meanwhile...a fly in the ointment
September 22nd, 2009
10:53 pm
Mark we appreciate the scoop from your esteemed colleague, especially as it seems to put you and/or the AJC in a bit of a pickle.
Hate to be a fly in the ointment here, but I can imagine some AJC critics saying you guys sat on this story.
I don’t see that myself, but it does beg the question, how did the AJC reporters not have their ear on the ground on this one?
Has this tension, or more to the point, this story been alluded to previously in the AJC? I’m not saying it’s on par with, for example, a San Francisco reporter not noticing that Barry Bonds didn’t get along with some of his teammates, but it does seem to indicate a gap in the AJC’s coverage analogous to putting Klesko in right, and say Terry Forster in center.
Well maybe not quite that bad, but certainly you can see why the readers would wonder about this.
Bravedawg
September 22nd, 2009
10:56 pm
Mark – what was the apology Schuerholz gave to Glavine on behalf of the organization? I never heard/saw anything about that and I follow the Braves closely. Did I miss something?
Reid Adair
September 22nd, 2009
11:04 pm
Bravedawg, it happened not long after the announcement that they were releasing Glavine.
http://blogs.ajc.com/furman-bisher-blog/2009/06/05/glavine-deserved-better-from-braves/
FEAR
September 22nd, 2009
11:04 pm
Like some other people on here. Why was a story about Cox almost leaving during sprin training brought up by a national reporter and on top of that almost 6 months later? Other than MB, (been kicking some ass lately) the ajc sports writers seem to still be writing for their high school rag. Cox needs to go. Not after 2010 or 2011. NOW! The game has passed him. Even the most casual observer can see that. Wren wants towin the big one and he knows that with Bonehead Cox that isn’t going to happen.
zzzzzzzzz
September 22nd, 2009
11:08 pm
First, bloggers…hit the back space button and you won’t have ‘enter your comment here’ at the beginning of your post. Secondly, nice job, Mark. Edes worked in Athens at the National, serving pizza? Really? Seriously, Bobby is a HOF er, no doubt. He’s won too many games to be otherwise. But any manager who goes 4 years without getting his guys into the postseason is a candidate to be relieved. Bobby gets more time because of his accomplishments here, but not four years worth. I truly believe that his handling of the bullpen this year cannot be defended. I also believe his handling of Shafer, KJ and Norton cannot be defended. He obviously saw talent in Frenchy (hitting 280 now, for the season, by the way) and gave him every opportunity but just couldn’t get it out of him, so I’ll give him a pass for French. The rest, though? Sorry, four years is too long.
Darren Holmes
September 22nd, 2009
11:09 pm
Mark…
Can you finally tell us what you know of what went down in 2002, specifically why, in your view, Glavine was justified in leaving? I know it’s not on point here, but some of us are quite curious.
Father of 5
September 22nd, 2009
11:09 pm
When the Braves fire Wren, I’ll start taking my family to games again. The guy sold his soul this year to put together the “masterful” pitching staff — and the team never got into contention for the playoffs. His poor decisions outlined above have hit him at the box office, and Wren needs to own up.
Every other team realized that Lowe was a solid #3 starter, but Wren paid him like an ace — and the Braves still owe him $45M over the NEXT THREE YEARS. Guaranteed. And times are tight. Even the Mets wouldn’t pay that. Wren mortgaged the future and hamstrung the team for years to come. Sure, Vasquez had a career year, but he is still a .500 pitcher. He ain’t Cliff Lee — or even Pedro Martinez. Vasquez makes $12M and he cost us good prospects to get him. Where did that get us?
Bobby is absolutely right to disagree with Wren’s moves — anything left would be a sign of senility setting in. Only one of those guys is going to the HOF, and my loyalty (and confidence in baseball matters) is with that guy.
Cox Supporter, BRAVES Supporter
September 22nd, 2009
11:11 pm
Burn in Hell, Wren !
Jack
September 22nd, 2009
11:14 pm
For more than a decade, Bobby Cox was unquestioned as among the best managers in baseball. The Braves continued winning even after they started reducing payroll, but now those cuts have caught up to the Braves. You seemed to realize Cox’s exceptional success a few weeks ago when you said that he was a good manager but not a right manager — an argument containing remarkably stretched and contradictory logic for a professional writer.
Mark Bradley, it’s as though you have a vendetta against Bobby Cox. Alternatively, you have a serious lack of creativity in column and blog topics. Either your professional integrity or ability is in question after the relentless assault for no apparent reason.
DP
September 22nd, 2009
11:20 pm
Frank Wren has made some good moves but he has made a bad one or two and got lucky that a few bad offers he made weren’t accepted. He overpaid for Derek Lowe, 4 years & $60 million for a 36 year old who has never been a #1 pitcher. The chances of moving Lowe and the last 3 years of his contract are about nil. He got extremely lucky that A.J. Burnett, Griffey Jr. and Furcal turned down offers as all would have been bad deals.
FEAR
September 22nd, 2009
11:23 pm
Cox defenders always say that you can’t blame bobby when the bullpen gives up runs, or when the offense doesn’t deliver etc. Well the same can be said for when the Braves were on top. Bobby cox wasn’t the sole reason we won 14 in a row. People talk like he was.
Base
September 22nd, 2009
11:30 pm
Wren is a corporate man so he is cutthroat nno surprise he is hard to work for.
Mark Bradley
September 22nd, 2009
11:34 pm
My view was that the Braves succeeded in making Glavine mad enough to leave. Whether he was justified in his anger, I can’t say. But to me he was Mr. Brave in a way Maddux and even Smoltz were not, and his leaving served notice that the era of good feeling had come to an end.
Hillbilly Deluxe
September 22nd, 2009
11:40 pm
My guess is that when Bobby Cox goes, whenever that is, it’ll be like Glavine and Smoltz, kicking and screaming. I don’t think he’ll ever walk away on his own.
Joe
September 22nd, 2009
11:43 pm
Bobby Cox isn’t the problem it’s the braves payroll issues face it they don’t have the money to spend like say Phila or NY Mets. If the Mets didn’t have so many injuries this year the braves would be in 3rd place right now behind the philies and mets. Once the braves start spending money on offense they are going to struggle they have good pitching but they need to get some hitters to give them some offense.
Mitch C
September 22nd, 2009
11:48 pm
Mark, I’m sure you’ve heard about John Scherholtz’s book, Built to Win, in which he states that the Braves did in fact make Glavine a 10 million a year, two or three year offer. (I dont recall whether it was two or three years). Glavine left because the Mets gave him more years.
At the time Glavine left, I was furious with him, because he was leaving a team that at the time had won eleven straight division titles, to go to a team that had finished in last place in 2002. I’ll admit I gained satisfaction watching him struggle in New York, while the Braves won the division without him from 2003 to 2005. I was thrilled when he returned to Atlanta in 2008. I only wish his pitching had been better in his homecoming.
I do agree with you that the team deterioriated after he left, in spite of the three division titles afterwards. Glavine was a guy you would have hoped would have been a Brave for life, and it didnt happen. Hopefully, whatever happens with Bobby, 2009 will be the beginning of an ascendance for this team, after three years of deterioration.
Joe
September 22nd, 2009
11:48 pm
I got a good idea the next Braves coach should be Mike Maddux and Greg Maddux should be the pitching coach. Bring Dave Justice in to be the hitting coach and Brian Jordan can be the bench coach.
Sunshine
September 22nd, 2009
11:49 pm
What has Bobby done for me lately? The one WS is cute, but even the Florida Marlins have won more in a shorter time frame than the years Bobby has been coaching. FIRE BOOBY NOW!
unbelievable
September 22nd, 2009
11:52 pm
its time to get past this whole JS, Cox, Mddux, Smoltz, Glavine era. We have a exciting bunch to watch now if Wren can keep most of it intact and its time to have someone new in the dugout managing this group (Fredi G maybe?)
unbelievable
September 22nd, 2009
11:52 pm
Herbie congrats, you’re an idiot
Sunshine
September 22nd, 2009
11:59 pm
F bomb Herbie, I would love to go roof for G Braves, but im not sure what roof is?
Coach (2010 or Bust)
September 23rd, 2009
12:07 am
Hell, I knew abut this months ago.
Lets just say I have a “Friend” who works for a large Georgia newspaper in a “sports capacity” who told me about the less than congenial relationship between Frank Wren and Bobby Cox. One major disagreement between the two of them was and still is: Yunel Escobar. Cox wanted to trade the young SS and almost got his wish this past off season.
Blake W.
September 23rd, 2009
12:12 am
I think it is hilarious that some of the people on this blog lavish praise on the team that Frank Wren put together in the offseason and blame Bobby Cox for starting the season with Jordan Schafer in centerfield and Jeff Francouer in right field?!? Is it just me or was it Frank Wren who wanted to add starting pitching and a power hitting outfielder?!? When he finally followed through…Bobby Cox has managed the team to a great second half record.
It is ridiculous and I question if alot of the people on this site are Braves fans if we are going to side with Frank Wren who has been dismissed from prior jobs because of his inability to get along with others (i.e. another Hall of Famer Cal Ripken) instead of the guy who has committed most of his career to creating a ballclub that the city of Atlanta can be proud of.
Bobby Cox has single handedly built this franchise and the idea that he should leave so that Frank Wren doesn’t have to be insecure because he is not the most accomplished man in the room is not worthy of this franchise.
Bobby Cox built this franchise before Frank Wren walked into the lap of luxury and if Bobby wants to be, he should be there when Frank Wren’s act wears thin and he is kicked to the curb.
itpdude
September 23rd, 2009
12:24 am
The info may be good, but one thing is for sure: Yahoo writers suck.
unbelievable
September 23rd, 2009
12:46 am
Blake, so what your saying is a great 2nd half record and a 4th straight yr being out of the playoffs is okay by you because Bobby used to be a great manager? Im sorry, but I think real braves fans want to get back to the playoffs and understand that it starts with a mangerial change. Wren just gave Bobby the best SP staff in baseball and it wasnt enough.
When did it become Wren’s fault that Bobby continued to play KJ over Prado while he was hitting .215, or Frenchy over Diaz when he was hitting below .250, or letting Schafer go out and strike out 75 times in the first two months.
Is it Wren’s fault that Bobby continues playing for one run and giving away outs late in the games with all of his excessive bunting. Im guessing you think that its Wren’s fault that we have 3 relievers in the top 5 of most appearances this season. Im guessing it Wren that calls to the pen to get Moylan Gonzo and Soriano up and throwing when we have 6 and 7 run leads also, then tells Bobby that they are unavailable to pitch in close games because theyve been overused. Im sorry but Im a real fan and 2nd or 3rd place in the division and an very slim shot at a wild card race isnt good enough for me
Wayn-o
September 23rd, 2009
12:50 am
FREDI GONZALEZ steal him from the marlins!
unbelievable
September 23rd, 2009
12:50 am
and one last thing, please remember that its Bobby who always has his say in everything and that we continued making one bad trade after another with slim playoff hopes. All those 3 for 1 and 4 for 1 deals wiped out our farm system.
Saying that Wren walked into luxury is just laughable. We had no position prospects being close to ready at the start of this season and when he took over our starting rotation was Jurrjens, Campillo, Morton, Reyes, and Carlyle. Wren, not Bobby, went out and made this team competitive.
Oregon Brave
September 23rd, 2009
1:26 am
This story makes me wonder what REALLY happened with the Furcal non signing.
TeeBerry
September 23rd, 2009
1:47 am
This really gets to me. Who in the Tara-on-fire blazes is going to do a better job than Bobby Cox??? He IS Braves baseball. For crying out loud! Do you losers remember what the Braves were BEFORE Bobby came to Atlanta??? They were just like you——losers. Bobby Cox made them contenders AND champions. With good talent and work-in-progress talent.
Michael
September 23rd, 2009
1:56 am
If nothing else, that photo shows why baseball managers and other coaches should stop wearing uniforms. Unless Bobby Cox is going to shag fly balls in center field, he should take the lead of his full-figured NFL brothers and wear coach clothes. Did Bill Parcells ever wear an oversized jersey with a big 58 on his chest and call in plays through a helmet? No, because it would’ve looked stupid.
reality
September 23rd, 2009
1:58 am
Hopefully Bobby Cox will be back next year and Wren will go away. Far, far away.
Tim
September 23rd, 2009
2:25 am
Please come home Terrence Moore. I’d rather read your annual column on why the Braves don’t have enough black players than Bradley’s dribble, which by the way, he gets off the radio.
Coach (2010 or Bust)
September 23rd, 2009
2:32 am
Bobby Cox was and still is the most overrated manager in ML history. Coming up short in fourteen of fifteen playoff appearances isn’t a crap shoot, it’s a trend. A terrible one.
Frank Wren is a DONKEY. He has personally disrespected three Hall of Fame players in Cal Ripken Jr., John Smoltz and Tom Glavine, the treatment of Glavine being truly repugnant.
I would part ways with the both of them if I had a say in the matter.
Tim is a moron
September 23rd, 2009
3:32 am
It’s drivel, not dribble. Now go read a book.
C from Marietta
September 23rd, 2009
3:53 am
Atlanta fans are the biggest whinners around. Terrible sportstown indeed.
London Calling
September 23rd, 2009
4:52 am
This story is bull. If there was any truth in it, it would have come out long ago. Just more raw meat for your new-found Cox-hating friends, Mark.
sad brotha
September 23rd, 2009
5:00 am
COMPLETELY OFF THE MARK… MARK! Terry McGuirk is the cog of the woes! He is CLUELESS and is in charge! I grant he is smart enough to distance himself, and that is his M.O. Get rid of him… Put John S. in his place and get ready for another more successful run! His salary and taking of air hurts the Braves.
Smooth
September 23rd, 2009
6:26 am
I have just added Bradley to one my don’t read articles. The man makes up what he don’t know.
Steve
September 23rd, 2009
6:42 am
I feel Frank Wren and Bobby Cox have done a good job. They need to resign LaRouch and too improve there outfield with more speed or power.