5 reasons Bobby Cox needs to hang it up now
Bobby Cox can argue all he wants, but I've come to my conclusion: This is the right time for him to step aside. (AJC photo by Elissa Eubanks)
1. He has nothing to prove. He’s a Hall of Famer. He has won 15 division titles, five pennants and a World Series. He has done it all, and all he’s seeking to do now is repeat after himself. Retire next month and nobody — well, almost nobody — will hold Greg Norton against him.
2. He’s 68 years old. He has money, a large family and the farm in Adairsville. Five years ago he told me what a older friend once told him: “Don’t wait too long to retire, Bobby, because then you can’t do nothin’.” There are a lot of somethings Cox hasn’t yet done. Like go to the Kentucky Derby. Or the Indy 500. Or do anything that happens between February and October and doesn’t involve getting to the ballpark at 11 a.m. for a night game.
3. He’s not quite the manager he once was. This is hard for me to say. As you know, I hold the man in the highest esteem. But this should have been a better team. (Not a great team, but a better one.) The 2009 Braves have outscored opponents by 74 runs and won 79 games. The 2009 Marlins have outscored opponents by seven runs and have won 80.
4. He’s getting even more stubborn, which is never good. Let’s return to what Cox said about pitching to Ryan Howard after Friday’s game (in which Howard hit two more home runs): “We’ve got a good plan. We just make mistakes.” If you can’t execute the plan, wad it up and toss it in yonder ashcan. And just walk the doggone guy.
5. Put simply, it’s time. He has managed the Braves since June 22, 1990. He has been managing this team nearly as long as Tommy Hanson has been alive. It has become too easy to play for him, too easy to be an Atlanta Brave. As this franchise moves into its new era — the Hanson-Heyward-Freeman-Escobar era — it wouldn’t be the worst thing to have a new voice in the dugout. It might actually be the best thing.
And now, because you asked: Here are my 5 top choices to succeed Cox as Braves manager.
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233 comments Add your comment
Tallcarl
September 21st, 2009
12:37 pm
First of all thanks Mark. I believe you must be a pretty cool guy. I live in Spain and read the AJC like I read my Bible, daily. I can’t get the game and will not, can not pay for a $240 NFL game package so I listen to Sirius game-talk about all the games as it is on-line while I read your blog to keep up with the Falcons game: it keeps me sane. I missed the whole football season last year and have been jonesing bad. However, please give us overseas bloggers more gametime info because the idiots at Sirius do not tell you that you can’t get your teams on the on-line hookup until you have bought the subscribtion. I called them jerks because they have the same problem as the talking heads at ESPN. I call it the Northeast bias syndrome, they keep cutting back to the Patriots, Jets, and Northern teams alond with some of the west coast teams with only a quick word when someone scores in Atlanta. I also get angy when these talkers keep repeating that the hardest division in the NFC is the Northeast division. What a joke, they should look at the last few years at the how many of these teams in the NFC south have been in the championship game. Besides the Gaints who else is the beast of the east and when they played the Panthers they came up short. Thankyou
Mike
September 21st, 2009
12:39 pm
Here are two points against your five.
1. Who are you going to get who is better? Who wants to follow Bobby Cox? Good grief. If who ever he is dosn’t do as well, the public will wish they had Bobby back.
2. Go around the line up. Chipper is way off his game. Johnson was way way off his game. McCann is not hitting like last year. Francour is hitting better than Anderson, unfortunately, for the Mets, not us. That shows you what expectations can do to a young talent. We had to change center fielders, right fielders and first basemen. Our bullpen has blown what, 20 games. How does managing have ANYTHING to do with that. Even half of those back would have us leading the division. You have to perform on the field!!!!
Peter
September 21st, 2009
12:41 pm
Gotta love the Greg Norton comment…….. Bating 141 is one heck of a season…….
Don’t worry there is enough games left for him to get to ???????? 160 ?
So why hasn’t this guy been replaced ?
Tallcarl
September 21st, 2009
12:44 pm
Sorry, I meant to post the previous vent on the Falcon post. I would be glad to hear from anyone with ideas about how to watch the Falsons on-line with out paying lots of money. I do not mind paying some but the NFL package is insane and people take it from me, MOST of the on-line TV packages are bogus so before you pay do your homework. I got stafted.
Good Grief
September 21st, 2009
12:47 pm
Been saying this for three years now…good to see you’ve finally caught on.
LongTime BravoFan
September 21st, 2009
12:49 pm
Just my $.02 in terms of a successor for Bobby. . . I’ve always thought that Glenn Hubbard would be a much better choice. He has managerial experience in the minors, and whereas we’ve seen lots of situations in which TP has apparently had difficult making progress with players in the hitting department, we’ve seen probably more in which Hubbard has been able to help players make significant changes in their defense.
Firetheoldfool
September 21st, 2009
12:53 pm
Mark. Thank you so much for having the cojones to speak out about Donk. It is way past time for him to go, but its great to see one writer on the AJC staff that will say what needs to be said (I know of two others that will not).
braves70
September 21st, 2009
12:55 pm
I can’t believe the responses from the pro-Cox people. You folks have elevated him to the level of a deity. You need to surrender your cult following of this man. The Braves were here long before Bobby Cox and will be here long after he is gone……. which I hope is after this season.
kaygeeone
September 21st, 2009
12:58 pm
Think about this: Bobby doesn’t throw pitches…not a one. Bobby doesn’t swing a bat…period Bobby don’t make or miss plays in the field……he’s not out there with a glove…..he doesn’t make bone-headed base running blunders…..he just slowly jogs to the ump to protect his players and takes the ejections and fines upon himself. He has a staff,i.e. Pendelton, McDowell, Perez and Chino just to name a few. If the pitcher is laying fastballs down the middle, it’s the pitchers fault and poss. the pitching coach….not Bobby. Frency searched elsewhere for hitting advise, poss. because Pendelton wasn’t helping him? eh? Chipper couldn’t hit a beach ball now, Norton?…..Bobby isn’t their hitting coach…Pendelton is. Perez should duct tape Medlen to a chair so he can’t come in…period. Chino directs the infield and out field like a blind policeman….sorry Chino…but too many balls are hitting the gaps or are over our heads or bloop in front of the players. With all the modern tech. it would seem to me that Bobby’s staff could be doing better. Last word: The General doesn’t fight the war, it’s the soldiers. Sav vy mates.
Firetheoldfool
September 21st, 2009
12:58 pm
Mike. Your post is just what is wrong with this country now. No one wants to accept responsibility. Its Cox’s job to win with what he has and utilize their talents in the best way possible. Cox has not and will not. He is just a stubborn old donkey. Look at the Rockies who changed managers in midseason and are now headed to the playoffs. How about the Dodgers who hired Joe Torre and in his first year have had the best record in baseball. The Braves have great talent, but when you consistently trot the .160 hitting Greg Norton out there in clutch situations and continually take out the starters that are pitching a shutout for the overworked bullpen (by Cox of course) then you need to have your a** run off.
dawg07
September 21st, 2009
12:59 pm
Enter your comments here
Time for him to move on and take chipper with him.
Bishopbulldawg
September 21st, 2009
1:02 pm
He’s earned the right to walk out when he wants to!
Dr. R
September 21st, 2009
1:03 pm
Mark, I don’t know what 14-year-old girl is writing the Web headline to your blog but tell them that Bobby is a manager, not a “coach.” This isn’t high school football. Gawd, I swear the people in this town are about as ignorant about baseball as any human beings on the green earth. Tribes in Borneo know more about the game than the college football, “Go Dawgs” Georgia-public school-education morons in this great city. I can’t even consider weighing in on the actual issue because of the idiocy of that headline.
Dr. R
September 21st, 2009
1:10 pm
OK, deep breath … I agree with all five of your points. I think even a great manager needs to hang it up at some point. The Braves have lost their edge, and a new skipper might give it back. Of course, if a new guy comes in and they finish fourth, we’ll know that it was something else. But when you don’t win, you try something else instead of beating your head against the same wall. This will be four straight years with no postseason; it’s time to change the dynamic.
“Coach.” I heard Joe Torre say once, when he was managing the Braves, “I knew I was back in the South when someone called me ‘coach.’” Jeesuz, what a bunch of hayseeds we are. It’s amazing we have teeth and shoes. “Coach” …
Robert
September 21st, 2009
1:12 pm
“All he did was help take the laughingstock of the National League and turn it into a championship team, a perennial contender, and one of the most highly respected organizations in baseball.”
No, no, and no
Cox happened to be around when a large group of young Braves turned the corner from overmatched to awesome. Yes he was involved in obtaining those players for the franchise, but that was as GM, where his work was solid, and not as manager
Making the playoffs does not make a team a contender – the Braves are the ultimate proof of that
The Braves organization and a lot of folks living within fity miles or so of the I–285 Perimeter consider themselves to be highly respected – outside that, they are essentially a laughingstock – or did you miss or ignore the baseball world’s reaction to their numerous player aquisition fiascos this past offseason (just the latest example)
Believe you me, the Yankees LAUGHED at the Braves all thru the late 90’s when we were at our supposed peak
Robert
September 21st, 2009
1:16 pm
“I really hope Bobby realizes its time to hang up the spikes and move into the front office”
Bobby Cox is smart enough to realize when there is another big booger just waiting to be mined out of his left nostril (he gets that telltale tickle) and if the stink gets strong enough, he is lucid enough to realize that he has soiled his diaper or had a thought (the resulting smell being the same in either case)
Cox – smart enough to realize it’s time for him to retire? No way on earth
Bobby Cox may be the dumbest human being alive
bruce
September 21st, 2009
1:18 pm
Mark –
How many of your five reasons apply to Joe Torre?
bvillebaron
September 21st, 2009
1:18 pm
Bishopbulldawg:
Wow, talk about blind loyalty! He’s EARNED the right to walk out when he want to! Are you kidding me. Cox was and remains the most overrated and poorest strategical managers I have seen in my 50 plus years of being a baseball fan generally and a Braves’ fan specifically. I could write a book about all of the stupid decisions he made during the 14 year run in the playoffs, but the most telling fact is he won 1, that’s O-N-E World Series Championships in 14 tries, most of them with MORE than enough talent to win (including parading out 3 Hall of Fame starters for most of those years). He also compounds this situation by playing favorites (no Mark, I won’t forget about Greg Norton) and giving up on players, particularly young ones, that get in his doghouse and blossom elsewhere (e.g. Jason Marquis). Thank God Mark finally has the courage to state the obvious.
Dr. R
September 21st, 2009
1:19 pm
Robert, you’re dead wrong all around. Baseball people respect Cox and the Braves for their amazing 14-year run. In baseball, making the playoffs is the hard part; once you’re there, it’s a crapshoot. This isn’t hockey or the NBA where every team with a pulse gets in. Baseball remains the one sport where the regular season is the true measure of a team or its players. You play every day for six months to get to October. After that, you take your chances. You show, once again, that Braves fans have no real knowledge of the game or the people who play it. Stick to Auburn football, bub.
Dr. R
September 21st, 2009
1:22 pm
You know, for all the talent Cox had that you “fans” think should have led to more championships, remember the one thing he didn’t have: A reliable closer year in and year out. The one year they won they had Wohlers. Every other year, the bullpen was a mishmash of nobodies. By the time Smoltz was closing, the starting pitching wasn’t as strong. You give him a Mariano Rivera all those years and he’d have a half dozen rings at least. A guy like that makes a manager look like a genius. Braves haven’t had a guy like that.
bvillebaron
September 21st, 2009
1:24 pm
Dr. R.
Excuse me, but I think
Herschel Talker
September 21st, 2009
1:28 pm
Robert – you are dead right
Dr. R – you are dead wrong. And you like men.
steveh
September 21st, 2009
1:33 pm
braves70 –
“The Braves were here long before Bobby Cox and will be here long after he is gone……. which I hope is after this season.”
Yes, the Braves were here before Bobby. And they sucked.
Coop
September 21st, 2009
1:35 pm
As much as it breaks my heart… you’re right. At a certain point, we have to move on. We could also do without Chipper.
Don’t know who to bring in, but not TP.
bvillebaron
September 21st, 2009
1:35 pm
Dr. R.
Excuse me, but I think YOU are the one who has “no real knowledge of the game or the people who play it”, my friend. I realize that it is an accomplishment to win 14 straight division championships and that it is a “crap shoot” when you get in the playoffs. However, 1 in 14 speaks volumes. All this talk about never having a reliable closer is simply making excuses. Let me give you two of my “favorite” Cox moves. Do you remember the time he told the world before the game that he hoped to get 5 good innings out of Glavine when he pitched with a fever? If I recall correctly, the Braves were up 2 to 1 in games on the Yankees and were winning game four 2-0 despite the fact that Glavine struggled alll night. Cox sends him out for the 6th or 7th (cannot remember which) and has NO ONE warming up until after the Yankees get 3 straight hits to tie the game. Of course, the Yankees go on to win the game and the World Series. Brilliant, positively brilliant. My other favorite is when he said that he was not going to pitch a certain pitcher in the 6th game of a playoff series while trailing 3 game to 2 because he was “saving” him for a potential game 7. Am I weird, or is true that there would be no game 7 if you don’t win game 6? Would you like some more examples of Cox’s playoff brilliance so you can further prove how uninformed and stupid people who criticize Cox are?
Van
September 21st, 2009
1:37 pm
It is way past time for Bobby to retire!!!!! He had a good run! But he is killing his legacy looking for the past glory days! With all of the talent he has had over the years, to reach the WS as many times as the Braves have and to only have 1 WS victory……TIME TO GO!
Phil
September 21st, 2009
1:41 pm
“Think about this: Bobby doesn’t throw pitches…not a one.”
No, but Hanson can. Yet that moron takes him out after 8 innings in Houston and brings in Soriano to lose the game. Everybody and their brother knew Hanson was our best chance at winning that game. Everybody but Cox that is.
“Bobby doesn’t swing a bat…period”
Neither can Norton but that idiot Cox keeps sending him up there in critical situations. Everybody and their brother knows Norton can’t hit a lick. Evrybody but Cox that is.
“he doesn’t make bone-headed base running blunders…..”
No, not on the bases. He makes all his bone-headed decisions in the dugout.
It’s time for this buffoon to retire.
smoochies
September 21st, 2009
1:45 pm
FINALLY!!!! Someone thinks the same way I do. Bobby should have been gone years ago. It’s time for a fresh start.
Herschel Talker
September 21st, 2009
1:50 pm
FIRE BOOBY THE DONKEY!!! HE IS A COMPLETE IGNORAMUS!!!
Loveofthegame
September 21st, 2009
1:51 pm
DR R. Mark Wohlers had 25 saves for the 95 braves(the year they won the championship)…..Wohlers then had 39 saves in 96 so I dont think your closer thing holds any reason for not winning another championship in 96!
will36206
September 21st, 2009
1:56 pm
Enter your comments here I hope Mr. Cox will walk away for the good of the franchise. Sometimes it is hard to see the writing on the wall when you are personally involved as long as he has been with the Braves. He has been the one constant for the Braves for the last 20 years as GM and manager. As for his replacement I would love to see Cito Gaston if he were to become available…
calvin
September 21st, 2009
1:58 pm
I think I started losing confidence in Bobby Cox when he started Keith Lockhart and Julio Franco instead of people like Marcus Giles back in 2002. I’m not all for the bashing. However, I do believe it is time for a fresh look at things in the Braves clubhouse.
GTSteve
September 21st, 2009
2:04 pm
If Bobby stays, it will be more of the same next year, maybe some different excuses, but mostly the same, play good for a couple of months out of the year, but ultimately missing the playoffs because of losing to terrible teams. IE Reds and Nationals and Padres, no reason for that with the starting pitching the Braves had this year. Time to clean house, no position already earned for 2010, come to spring training and earn your position.
GTSteve
September 21st, 2009
2:09 pm
The Dave Duncan suggestion sounded pretty good..
Ned Yost
September 21st, 2009
2:12 pm
I need a job!
Phil
September 21st, 2009
2:15 pm
Hubbard is not a bad idea either. TP is the last person we want based on his job performance. But given a choice of more Cox or go with TP, I would take TP. Anybody would be better than Cox, anybody.
All I'm Saying Is...
September 21st, 2009
2:16 pm
To: ozzie, September 21st, 2009, 11:39 am
You clearly did not read my post. I gave reasons why the Braves should get rid of BC so I don’t ‘fear change’ as you ignorantly put it.
My point was that Bradley’s reasons for getting rid of BC are ridiculous and could be applied to him (and would be equally ridiculous).
A stronger case for not bringing back BC is to simply say (as I did in my post that you clearly either did not read or did not understand) that
(a) We need to clarify the next five years and we don’t need any annual drama about whether the manager is coming back and we decided that we want someone to commit to us now for five years (assuming they do the job); and
(b) We need our team to be led in a different manner—we have team speed now and we need to remake our offensive approach to be based on working the count (i.e. not swinging at the first pitch), stealing bases, taking the extra base on the base paths, etc.
Those are the only two reasons you need to not offer BC another contract. You don’t need to say insulting things like he’s 68 years old or its simply time for him to go because those don’t make any sense based on the performance of this team once we got rid of three dead weights from the line-up.
And I don’t know why people keep tossing out that TP is his successor. If BC is let go, then all his coaches know that there is no guarantee they will be around. BC was kept by John Scheurholz [sp.] but Frank Wren doesn’t owe BC anything—just ask Glavine and Smoltz how sentimental Frank Wren is.
LET’S GO BRAVES!
p
September 21st, 2009
2:19 pm
The pitching to Howard thing, definitely. Pitching around him is a valid strategy. Bobby has totally lost it, and cost us 5 games. That and relief pitcher abuse. And we wonder why we have no bullpen every year. Stay home Cox.
Dr. R
September 21st, 2009
2:19 pm
They don’t get to most of those playoff series without Cox. And Wohlers’ 39 saves didn’t keep him from giving up a game-winner to a backup catcher in ‘96 that cost them the series. But I won’t change anyone’s minds here and I know it. Everyone believes that this particular move or that one would have made a difference when it isn’t always that easy. Sometimes in baseball you pick the right guy at the right time but it doesn’t work. But when you have a football mentality and believe that this block or that play call would lead to success, you won’t be convinced otherwise. So I’m wasting my time. Enjoy your football games. Bobby will be gone soon, the Braves will go deep into the tank and you’ll be left to blast someone else.
Mark Bradley
September 21st, 2009
2:23 pm
And here, because you all asked, is my list of five possible successors as Braves managers.
Frankie Knuckles
September 21st, 2009
2:24 pm
off with his head. the schmuck.
Legend of Len Barker
September 21st, 2009
2:35 pm
This year Bobby Cox has been the absolute worst in managing a bullpen I’ve ever seen. Simpson and Sciambi pointed out that Medlen statistically doesn’t do well on back-to-back nights. Cox keeps throwing him out there night after night, not paying any attention that what any report would tell him.
There are some nights when a reliever needs to take one for the team and pitch several innings. Bobby likes to share the wealth and have 4-5 take for the team during one game.
I’m shocked Moylan’s arm didn’t fall off. Gonzalez, too. Tim Hudson was under pitch counts during his appearances because of his surgery. Guess it doesn’t apply to relievers.
Taking out Hanson in Houston was the icing on the cake. I also remember a particular day in Colorado where I wanted to skin Cox for his mismanagement of his pen.
And dadgummmit, I want to steal bases. I like fast runners who terrorize pitchers.
I want a manager who knows who to manage youth. Poor Escobar will be permanently chained to the doghouse as long as Bobby’s around. I’m not sure if Escobar was benched for loafing or for actually having the gall to be visibly frustrated with his own play. Bobby, you need to encourage players with spark, not bench them. By every account, Yunel is working very hard to acclimate to American culture. He smiles more and his English is supposedly much better than it was. Unfortunately the only encouragement he gets in the dugout is from Chino Cadahia.
I’d like another outfielder who isn’t a defensive liability. I love Diaz, but he can’t field. That leaves Garret Anderson who also can’t field, but unlike Diaz he has not upside anymore.
I like LaRoche when he’s hitting, but I thought Casey Kotchman got shafted. He wasn’t spectacular at the plate but solid. Neither he nor LaRoche can run. I think Casey’s big sin was that he wasn’t Chipper’s buddy, while LaRoche is.
Phillies/Mets/Marlins Fans
September 21st, 2009
2:46 pm
We love you Bobby and hope to see you in the dugout next year and for many years to come! Please never leave! If you do leave, please find a replacement from within- someone who has been indoctrinated in the dull, lifeless brand of baseball the Braves play, where anyone with a hint of a fiery personality is quickly sent packing. Thank you in advance!
DAVEinNEPA
September 21st, 2009
2:47 pm
Finally, AT LONG LAST, someone from this rag has the cajones to say what a good many of us have been saying for years.
BOBBY’S DEPARTURE IS LONG PAST DUE.
IMO he should have been gone after the 96 WS and if not then after the fiascos of 97-98 when we dumped the playoffs to clearly inferior teams.
If he’s back next year after the numerous blunders he made this year, we have to assume that the management of this team doesn’t truly care about winning!
bobby
September 21st, 2009
3:06 pm
Enter your comments heremark bradley get off this website, no body likes u
Jim
September 21st, 2009
3:17 pm
So what if the pitching staff was playoff calibre. The lineup this year has been mediocre and some of our better players like Chipper, Kelly and others have had off years. The Braves are close to being really good with a few moves not the least of which being the promotion of Jason Heyward. With that said, unless Bobby wants to leave, I think this is a bad time for him to go because I think they are on the verge of being a real contender again. I guess it seems easy to blame Bobby Cox for everything but I am nervous about what the Braves are going to be without him.
Mike W
September 21st, 2009
3:39 pm
Being from St. Louis and a die hard Cardinals fan (still), I have lived in Atlanta a long time. I go to alot of the Braves games not because i like the Braves, i go because i love the game of Baseball period. I use to say that Bobby Cox needs to go, I have recently recanted my thoughts and heres why. Bobby Cox only manages the talent he is given…..and while he may be loyal to certain players……..not all….he gets the most out of each……..Players play……….Managers manage, and when you get the the Major league level, there should be no excuses from the players period. They have to get it done on the field. Bobby Cox cant play and manage, he can only manage the talent he is given and in the Braves case “not” given at times. The game of baseball now is the same game that has been played for many many years, he’s not to old, thats BS, he knows the game and he knows it well. I think Atlanta would be better served if we demanded more from ownership and the front office to get talent in here that can play, want to win and play the game the right way which is hard night in and night out. St. Louis is a great baseball town because it demands a great product on the field the majority of the time(2nd in World Series wins), if the product isnt there, or you slack off, you get ran out of town…….Atlanta should be the same way. Once the talent is in place and Bobby dont win, then run Bobby Cox, Ownership and the front office out of town. Look at St. Louis, we ran the GM out once he stop producing and wanted LaRussa too. Guess what they brought in the talet to win, so Larussa has no excuses now. He better win, if not he will go too. To Bobby’s credit he is a company man…never heard him complain about what he is given to work with, he just maximize there talent and win…………..wonder what would happen if he demanded the same from the front office as we demand on him……..which is win and win championships. Whatever happens Bobby Cox, you are a class act………we all wish we had Bosses as loyal as you are……even when everyone else dont give it back to you. Thanks Coach Cox, you deserve to leave the game and Atlanta on your own terms, Hell, you earned it.
Joe S
September 21st, 2009
3:54 pm
They should trade Derek Lowe away for a big bat in return, free up more money get a pitching prospect and save up extra cash for Jair’s future.
In the bullpen next year Buddy Carlyle, and Jorge Campillo can certainly fill in for Soriano, and Mike Gonzalez because they can go the extra innings and get the big outs.
Frank Derrickson
September 21st, 2009
4:41 pm
You know even less about baseball than football and we all know you know nothing about football.
Should have left years ago
September 21st, 2009
4:53 pm
Hey Bobby – beat my wife – please!!!