5 reasons Bobby Cox needs to hang it up now
Bobby Cox can argue all he wants, but I've come to my conclusion: This is the right time for him to step aside. (AJC photo by Elissa Eubanks)
1. He has nothing to prove. He’s a Hall of Famer. He has won 15 division titles, five pennants and a World Series. He has done it all, and all he’s seeking to do now is repeat after himself. Retire next month and nobody — well, almost nobody — will hold Greg Norton against him.
2. He’s 68 years old. He has money, a large family and the farm in Adairsville. Five years ago he told me what a older friend once told him: “Don’t wait too long to retire, Bobby, because then you can’t do nothin’.” There are a lot of somethings Cox hasn’t yet done. Like go to the Kentucky Derby. Or the Indy 500. Or do anything that happens between February and October and doesn’t involve getting to the ballpark at 11 a.m. for a night game.
3. He’s not quite the manager he once was. This is hard for me to say. As you know, I hold the man in the highest esteem. But this should have been a better team. (Not a great team, but a better one.) The 2009 Braves have outscored opponents by 74 runs and won 79 games. The 2009 Marlins have outscored opponents by seven runs and have won 80.
4. He’s getting even more stubborn, which is never good. Let’s return to what Cox said about pitching to Ryan Howard after Friday’s game (in which Howard hit two more home runs): “We’ve got a good plan. We just make mistakes.” If you can’t execute the plan, wad it up and toss it in yonder ashcan. And just walk the doggone guy.
5. Put simply, it’s time. He has managed the Braves since June 22, 1990. He has been managing this team nearly as long as Tommy Hanson has been alive. It has become too easy to play for him, too easy to be an Atlanta Brave. As this franchise moves into its new era — the Hanson-Heyward-Freeman-Escobar era — it wouldn’t be the worst thing to have a new voice in the dugout. It might actually be the best thing.
And now, because you asked: Here are my 5 top choices to succeed Cox as Braves manager.
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233 comments Add your comment
GEORGIA BRAVE
September 21st, 2009
11:00 am
What about Dave Duncan for a future manager? He is rumored to be unhappy in St. Louis…
Tdalmore
September 21st, 2009
11:02 am
There is a stubborn arrogance in the way Cox manages, and in the way he excuses all the mistakes. I suppose he thought Soriano looked just fine Sat night. Btw, it is actually a relief right now not to have Gonzalez available.
JPHurricane
September 21st, 2009
11:03 am
Hopefully, these are better reasons than the five reasons that Tech beats Miami.
DMac
September 21st, 2009
11:04 am
Thank you Mr. Bradley. You have finally said what most fans have been thinking for a long time. It needed to be said, in print, by someone of your position. I thank Bobby Cox for his contributions to the organization, but as you said: “It’s time.”
Wes
September 21st, 2009
11:05 am
And you wonder why people call us fair-weather fans? Throw your manage to the wolves because the team isn’t reaching the playoffs for ump-teen years straight… nice. Maybe, just maybe, he has aging super stars and doesn’t have a hall of fame pitching staff anymore. Bobby’s talent is taking great players and getting them to perform. Give him the talent already and you’ll see more pennants. Maybe the problem is the front office… or just a bunch of impatient sports writers with nothing else to write about.
DMac
September 21st, 2009
11:06 am
Replace Cox with just about anyone, except Terry Pendleton.
jgon
September 21st, 2009
11:09 am
He gets more out of the players then you think. Every time a former player goes to a new club, their stats are usualy down except for the exceptional players.One good closer over the years and he is in St. Louis.
Braves WIN, Braves, WIN, Braves...NEVERMIND
September 21st, 2009
11:10 am
REASON #1 should have been. The Braves would still be in the playoff hunt, had the nose picker been gone LAST season.
O'Brien
September 21st, 2009
11:13 am
If I’m not mistaken, Bobby has 8 children and a bunch of grandkids. He’s won everything there is to win, so at his age, I think its time to retire and spend more time with the family.
Take a consulting role in the front office, which would allow him to still contribute to the makeup of the team. And I’m sure Wren values his opinion.
Kashi
September 21st, 2009
11:14 am
I DON’T BELIEVE PROBLEM IS A BOBBY HERE. WE JUST DON’T HAVE A PLAYER BESIDE BRIAN WHO IS A THREAT TO A PITCHER ON MOUND. WE JUST DON’T HAVE AN OFFENSE (STEAL/SPEED/AGGRESSIVE BASE RUN) -PERIOD. LAST FEW YEARS EITHER IT IS A PLAYER WITH BAT ON HAND OR T. PENDELTON CAN’T COACH A PLAYER. IF WE HAD GOT FURCAL AND ADAM FOR WHOLE SEASON, DO WE THINK WE WOULD BE TALKING ABOUT THIS NOW?
Chris
September 21st, 2009
11:14 am
The only possibly legitimate reason given for Cox to retire was reason #3, “He’s not quite the manager he once was.” The other four reasons are, with respect, nonsense.
That said, whether Cox is “quite the manager he once was” is up for debate (think Joe Paterno).
KSShake
September 21st, 2009
11:21 am
I agree with you 110%. It was time for Bobby to hang it up two years ago by my clock. We really do need a new voice in the dugout and new leadership, and a new approach to the game. We still are awful at manufacturing runs. And from what I can see, the problems with this team go beyond Bobby Cox. How many guys on this team can execute a hit and run and lay down a bunt to move a runner over consistently. One: Tom Glavine. Opps, Tommy is no longer on the roster. Maybe they should hire Tom Glavine to teach these guys how to bunt. He was one of the best I’ve ever seen.
ksshake
J-man
September 21st, 2009
11:24 am
Numbers 3 and 4 from the article are why I think it’s time for him to go. Frank Wren seems to lack the intestinal fortitude to stand up to Cox and get rid of under performing players that Cox won’t stop using. And Cox seems to really be playing favorites and putting guys in the doghouse to a much greater extent than he ever did in the past. It’s time for him to go.
What scares me though is that while I think it’s time for Cox to retire, I’m not sure I trust the Braves to replace him. Looking outside the majors might be best. Bobby has had coaches who have been poor managers (Yost and Williams come to mind), so I’m not enthused at all at the thought of just promoting someone already on the staff in Atlanta to the job.
Jim H
September 21st, 2009
11:24 am
Bobby needs to take Snitker (3rd base coach) with him. That guy has NO STONES and could be replaced by a stop sign. You almost never score a run by standing on 3rd base. I swear I saw Brian McCann hit a home run and Snitker was throwing up the stop sign to hold him at 3rd.
The guy’s a WEENIE
BBraves@yahoo.com
September 21st, 2009
11:36 am
Better yet along with a new manager how about a new 3rd Base Coach, Bench Coach, and Hitting Coach.
PoBird
September 21st, 2009
11:38 am
I think we all risk letting our jobs define who we are. And we can’t imagine ourselves without the job. Muhammad Ali, Brett Favre, Evander Holyfield, and Bobby Cox are but a few. A youger, sharper mind would serve the Braves best interest. But I would want it to be Bobby’s decision.
Greg Norton
September 21st, 2009
11:38 am
He’s definitely lost it. I mean just sending me up to hit with my 118 batting average proves it. I cant complain I got a family to support.
ozzie
September 21st, 2009
11:39 am
“Just Saying” your comments re: Bradley are way off. He make a good case and your fear of change and blind homer-ism is shining through.
Bradley does not need a writing award to have two eyes that work. Bobby is not the mgr he was nor is he showing any evolution in his thinking even though the game has changed and his talent pool is not as deep.
The Braves look tired and worn out from an approach perspective and the needed changes to this approach are not going to come from Bobby or likely from any of his staff.
Not only is it time for Bobby to retire 2/3 of his coaches need to go as well.
This team was good enough for a solid WC spot and a run at the division especially given how poorly the Phillies played in June.
We should not be hanging on by a thread with this rotation.
Yes the players have to produce but the manager needs to adapt to the realities of his talent and or their limitations.
Bobby has not be able to do that and that is why Mark is making his case.
He could have been much harsher with his rational.
BTW – your reasons are not very impressive not is your prose. Who is paying you to write? I suspect no one.
But like your comments about Bradley’s career it is irrelevant. Bobby needs to go.
Joe Fan
September 21st, 2009
11:40 am
Enter your comments here
I really hope Bobby realizes its time to hang up the spikes and move into the front office. The amount of silence on this subject from the Braves leads me to think that Bobby is headed this way after the season. Also there are much better candidates to replace him than TP and I believe Braves’ management wants new energy in the dugout.
Loveofthegame
September 21st, 2009
11:42 am
Thanks, Mark for writing this. After reading Mr. Bisher’s article yesterday as to why Bobby would not retire, I smiled this morning when I saw your 5 reasons he should hang em up. I thought all you AJC guys were going to give Bobby a free ticket to stay till he decided it was time to move on. I am glad you, Mark, have the knowledge and courage to tell it like it is! While I agree on all your points, I would just like to add a couple more. I think the majority of the Braves fan base are ready for a new manager. Alot of the others ,who would like him to stay on, only want that for sentimental reasons While I am thankful for the 15 division titles. 5 world series trips, and the one world championship, the truth is we should have won a couple more in 91-93 and 96 was certainly ours.It has now been 14 years since the last championship, and 4 straight years with no playoff appearance at all. No other manager in baseball has been allowed to stay with the same team that long with the same results.Frank Wren did a remarkable job of rebuilding the starting rotation in the off season. Bobby actually has 6 quality staters now. The bullpen has 4 good arms in Soriano, Gonzo, O’Flarety, and Moylan, Medlen and Logan have shown signs of promise,and Kimbrel may be ready next year. Even if money constraints force the trade of 1 starter, and you can only resign one of Soriano and Gonzo, the pitching is going to be in great shape next year. For position players, McCann, Prado, Escobar, Chipper, Diaz(LF not RF he has earned the right to be the full time starter there), and McLouth all seem to be set in my mind. Resign LaRoche for 2 to 3 years as Chipper has suggested. He wants to play here, is probably the best free agent 1st baseman available,and the Braves need him. Freddie Freeman is only 19 years old and 1 to 2 years away from being ready.That only leaves right field and the bench to construct. Jason Heyward is going to be in right by mid summer at the latest and for many years to come. For the bench, release Norton, dont resign Anderson, and non-tender Kelly Johnson, Use their money to sign Wes Helms to back-up Chipper and Adam. He would be the perfect bench player for the Braves. He knows his role already, has got some pop in his bat ,and can actually play in the field, unlike Norton. With Helms.Infante, Church, Ross, Schafer, and Conrad you have a really strong bench.Start Church in right for a couple months if you want Heyward to get a little more seasoning.at AAA. This team, with a new manager, who will inspire and motivate,manage the bullpen properly, and use his deep bench to rest players and bust slumps of starters,will surely return to the playoffs next year. None of this did Bobby do properly this year. Thus ,the Braves are going to finish behind an inferior Rockies team. The recent sweep of St. Louis, the 3/4 taken from LA a month or so ago, and the season record with Philly also tell me we are close to those teams as well.
BravesfaninWis
September 21st, 2009
11:42 am
Well put Mark..
While I love what Cox did for the Braves in the past, his time has clearly passed him by.. He can’t do the little things right at all anymore.. This team with its starting pitching staff should have 90 wins or close to it right now.. How many of the gems that out starting guys pitched went for naught just because Cox pulled the pitcher and put in one of his bullpen guys that was notorious for blowing games (insert Acosta, O’Flaherty, Logan, and just about any of our bullpen guys here)
This team is in desperate need of new bullpen arms not named Manny Acosta, Eric O’Flaherty, Raphael Soriano, Boone Logan, and perhaps even Mike Gonzalez..
We need new bench bats not named Greg Norton..
We need a new LF not named Garrett Anderson..
Bobby has benched Escobar twice this year for “loafing” and while I agree with that, why hasn’t he benched Anderson for doing the same exact thing? Anderson loafs in the OF more then any other player I have seen this year.. I hope the age difference is not a excuse either because if you are athletic to play this game, you shouldn’t take a play off ever.. So that to me shows that Cox shows favorites and that is flat out wrong.. If you are going to cut a player some slack shouldn’t it be a very talented SS who hits for average, power, and has exceptional defense and not some LF who is clearly on his last leg and about to make his exit into retirement? Escobar is the Braves present and future at SS and he will be here long after Cox is gone..
Here is my wish list as a Braves fan come winter time..
1. New manager and coaching staff.. Lets start anew..
2. Revamped bullpen, or bring in a PC who can get the most out of his BP..
3. New starting LF.. Someone like Bay or Holliday would be great but probably to expensive.
4. Resign LaRoche to a 2-3 year deal and let Freeman progress in the minors..
5. Make sure Hayward is the new starting RF.. What to do with Diaz and Church?
Make some changes and maybe the Braves are contenders again in 2010..
hmmarett
September 21st, 2009
11:42 am
Enter your comments here BOBBY, WE HAVE WATCHED THE GAME WITH YOU, NOW IT IS TIME TO WATCH THE GAME WITH US..
YOU HAVE BEEN THE BEST MANAGER IN ALL OF BASEBALL…………..!!
WITH RESPECT ALWAYS !!
curtis jones
September 21st, 2009
11:43 am
“There is no one available out there who can manage like Bobby Cox.”
I sure hope you’re right!
Stan
September 21st, 2009
11:45 am
Enter your comments here
You are about two years late with your article. Bobby is an average coach at best. Given the talent he has had to work with, I could have done almost as well as he has. It’s when the talent pool gets a bit shallow that a good manager earns his keep, and Bobby has failed to do that. He has also failed to motivate the players he has to the “next level” during any of the 15 playoffs they’ve reached. That’s why he has only 1 world series to show for it. We need a “motivator” at this point in time, and I’m quite sure TP is not the answer to that. Bobby has been good for the Braves, but it’s time for a regime change if they are ever going to become the team they could be.
Pete
September 21st, 2009
11:45 am
Congrats Mark! You’re not even a top 3 writer for the worst paper in the country!
This comment has nothing to do with this article!
Count de Monet
September 21st, 2009
11:46 am
Thank you MB. Great job telling it like it is.
His (mis)handling of Frenchy, KJ, Bennett, Norton, the entire bullpen are some of the many telltale signs that its time for him to go.
Trey
September 21st, 2009
11:49 am
Clusters and I go way back.
Count de Monet
September 21st, 2009
11:49 am
I forgot to include Escobar in the list of players he has mishandled.
Steven Lemon
September 21st, 2009
11:58 am
BBrown, sure, Casey stengel managed until he was 85, and Connie Mack managed until he was 88, and BOTH of them had their LAST world Championship at age …umm SIXTY EIGHT, same age as Bobby Cox. As I have said for years, during which I seemed to be the LONE voice saying so, Bobby Cox is a fine manager over a 162 game season, but only won that ONE World Series because he had Smoltz, Glavine, Maddox and David Justice on his team. Some of you DON’Tblame him for losing the series in 91 and 92 but I do.
In ‘91 Bobby’s loyalty to junkballer Charlie Liebrandt, let Kirby Puckett, best junkball hitter in Minnesota, hit a game winning homer in game six. In ‘92, same scenario, only substitute Dave Winfield and Toronto for Kirby Puckett and Minnesota in the above sentence. And if Braves observers were really observant and honest with themselves they could point to a hundred different occasions during ANY time of the season and recall how many times the Braves failed to move runners to third with less than two outs, hit into double plays were the runner NEVER got close to breaking it up (because Bobby doesn’t use the hit and run) or where a sacrifice (even a SQUEEZE) was in order but never employed.
Bobby Cox would be a GREAT AMERICAN LEAGUE manager, but his success in the National League was due only to the fact that his players, over the years have been able to overcome his tactical mistakes..
AJ
September 21st, 2009
12:00 pm
Thank you Mark Bradley for writing this. ALOT of people feel the same way. You are right! We love ya Bobby, but its time to go.
Jerry
September 21st, 2009
12:02 pm
Yeah he needs to hang it up. And the friend who said do so while you can still do something is 100% correct. I hung it up over a year ago & it has been thee best move I have made in years.
And he has nothing left to prove.
Replacement? The history of baseball says that is a hit & miss, trial & error game. There is not list of “requirements” for a successful manager except the ability to handle unique people in a very unique environment.
Fenton Hyacinthe
September 21st, 2009
12:04 pm
As much talent this man have had over the years, for about ten years he had the best pitching in the majors, AL or NL. This man and the Braves should have won at least five world championship. Its long past the time for him to go, he should have been fired after he lost to Minnesota.
R Cagle
September 21st, 2009
12:05 pm
Mark – who do you suggest as the “new voice from the dugout” and why?
GregNorton
September 21st, 2009
12:06 pm
He’s the best manager I’ve ever had.
gayle
September 21st, 2009
12:10 pm
Any bloggers who protest to keep Bobby on the throne need to look no further than Colorado – they will be the team with the NL Wild Card this year, not your beloved Bobby-led Braves.
The Rockies had the courage to dump their manager – the guy who took them to the playoffs in 2007 when the team wasn’t performing.
Since that change, the Rockies are about 30 games over .500 and headed to the playoffs. It makes you wonder where the Braves would be if their absent ownsership cared as much about this team as the Rockies did.
Old, out of touch, stubborn, past his time, too loyal as well as too quick to dump a quality player he can’t manage (Dye, Justice, Lofton, Boone).
Look how Glavine was embarrassed staying too long – aren’t you embarrassed Bobby? Go, please go!
steveh
September 21st, 2009
12:13 pm
Personally, I want Bobby Cox back next year. I really did not think this year’s team would even be at .500 this year but he has gotten these guys to perform pretty well.
I’m not sure why so many seem do be down on the idea of Terry Pendleton being the eventual successor. Everyone who has been around him knows that he has a great baseball mind. If you disapprove of his job as a hitting instructor, so what? That is comparing apples and oranges. The role of the manager is completely different. I can remember back in the 80s hearing Whitey Herzog comment that someday TP would make a great manager.
Mark Bradley is right on the money
September 21st, 2009
12:14 pm
Another thing is that Ryan Howards homeruns arent just homeruns but if you notice his team gets fired up after he launches those bombs..its like in one mighty swing of his bat the opposing crowd is silenced, the Phillies players are suddenly thinking ‘Yeah we can do this!’ if they are trailing or ‘We got this!’ if they are winning. I mean look at that bottom of the ninth against Soriano. Howard launches one and next thing you know every one of the Phillies wants to join the party. If you can take that out of the equation by walking the guy then daggonit walk him.
GregNorton
September 21st, 2009
12:16 pm
Winning is overrated. It’s more important to keep playing your non-productive players so your players will love you.
ckgator
September 21st, 2009
12:18 pm
And replace him with who? Cox is admired across baseball not just because of what he has done in the past, but because of what he is doing *today.* I would hate to see their current record without Bobby as the skipper. He’s doing an awful lot with what he has.
taxman kenneth
September 21st, 2009
12:23 pm
I totally agree with you that it is time for Bobby to move on. He has done a lot but in the past few years without having any power on the team he does not do the little things to win games. Yesterday for example he let McCann sit and rest. Why does he need to rest? Pudge caught the game for Texas yesterday after playing on Saturday night and he is much older than McCann. They can rest from Sept until Feb. He took Vasquez out Saturday night with a 6-0 lead and the bullpen almost lost the game which is what he wanted them to do. He will let pitchers complete games regardless of the pitch count or situation. Last night I heard Joe Morgan say that Warren Spahn pitched 16 innings in a game. If Cox had been the manager then it would have been 6 or 7 which the magic number for him. They don’t hit and run, they have no speed, and no power. When the braves were winning all those pennants look at the team they had. They could outscore any team and with the pitchers and the bullpen they had they could prevent other teams from scoring. They have a good pitching staff right now but that does not do much good if they cannot score and Cox won’t let them pitch but 6-7 innings. Chipper needs to hang it up, Cox needs to go as well as Pendleton and the pitching coach. Get some new blood and some players who want to play.
London Calling
September 21st, 2009
12:24 pm
One reason why Cox should stay. The hatemongering morons who have been spitting venom about him all over these blogs ever since they were set up will be doing exactly the same to his replacement inside a month.
George Holman
September 21st, 2009
12:25 pm
I say Bobby stays as long as he wants. He is still effective, and ball players love playing for him.
Ed
September 21st, 2009
12:26 pm
I have the highest regard for Cox and appreciate the glory years, but it’s time to hang it up before he goes the way of Bobby Bowden. If Bowden had retired even 5 years ago (preferably 10 years ago), he would without dispute be regarded as one of the Top Five greatest college football coaches of all time. He was once regarded as the most innovative offensive mind in football, and his FSU teams were fun to watch. Instead, his stock has dipped each year until he is now considered an addled figurehead who’s good for the occasional homespun quip or two, but little else. That’s probably not entirely accurate, but that’s the perception. Say goodbye, Bobby. Thanks – it has been a great run.
Oh, come now.
September 21st, 2009
12:26 pm
Curtis Jones, don’t forget 2A, Kelly needs a job, too.
bobby
September 21st, 2009
12:26 pm
hahah its pretty dang bad when half the people who write on here cant even spell. yall are not true fans of the atlanta braves. bobby can stay as long as he wants. the reason for failure in 2009 is the fact that we missed that big slugger who would hit between chipper and mccann. I mean come on chipper did’nt have any protection. thats why the numbers arent so good.
bobby
September 21st, 2009
12:29 pm
so i mean dont get on here and talk crap. Chipper hates mark bradley so do i now hahah what a loser. u dont know shet about the game. keep ur shet to ur self.
Hang in there Bobby!
September 21st, 2009
12:31 pm
Ask the players what tney think…not a reporter who obviously should consider retiring instead of trying to think of what next contreversial article to write. I’m betting a few paychecks that %95 of them say he should stay and i would take there views way over MB’s.
Juan Querendon
September 21st, 2009
12:31 pm
Just goes to show how far this franchise has come, when the Atlanta sports public is ready to can a hall of fame manager with 5 world series appearances and 15 playoff appearances.
I remember the 80’s, and am in no hurry to return to them. I sure hope Braves management has a darned good replacement before they usher Bobby out the door. Remember Chuck Tanner?
Peter
September 21st, 2009
12:34 pm
Bobby should go, and relax….. he has burnt the bullpen this year as usual.
Long Time Fan, First Time Caller
September 21st, 2009
12:35 pm
Bobby Cox has been a great manager in Atlanta, but lets face facts. He has never been a great game coach. If Atlanta isn’t hitting home runs we just don’t produce wins. The reason we always won pennants was our record against the weaker teams in the league, not against the best. Anyone can check the stats over the years to see that. This is why the team always faltered in the playoffs and World Series. I’m a huge fan of old school baseball (which I just like to call baseball) where you move runners over, hit behind them, hit and run, squeeze, etc. I’ll give Cox some credit for doing this in the last few years, but only because he finally realized that his lineup couldn’t jack the dingers like in years past. Its time to go Bobby, retire, relax and let someone younger with fresh energy revitalize this team and teach them how to play the game I love so dearly.