5 reasons Bobby Cox needs to hang it up now
Bobby Cox can argue all he wants, but I've come to my conclusion: This is the right time for him to step aside. (AJC photo by Elissa Eubanks)
1. He has nothing to prove. He’s a Hall of Famer. He has won 15 division titles, five pennants and a World Series. He has done it all, and all he’s seeking to do now is repeat after himself. Retire next month and nobody — well, almost nobody — will hold Greg Norton against him.
2. He’s 68 years old. He has money, a large family and the farm in Adairsville. Five years ago he told me what a older friend once told him: “Don’t wait too long to retire, Bobby, because then you can’t do nothin’.” There are a lot of somethings Cox hasn’t yet done. Like go to the Kentucky Derby. Or the Indy 500. Or do anything that happens between February and October and doesn’t involve getting to the ballpark at 11 a.m. for a night game.
3. He’s not quite the manager he once was. This is hard for me to say. As you know, I hold the man in the highest esteem. But this should have been a better team. (Not a great team, but a better one.) The 2009 Braves have outscored opponents by 74 runs and won 79 games. The 2009 Marlins have outscored opponents by seven runs and have won 80.
4. He’s getting even more stubborn, which is never good. Let’s return to what Cox said about pitching to Ryan Howard after Friday’s game (in which Howard hit two more home runs): “We’ve got a good plan. We just make mistakes.” If you can’t execute the plan, wad it up and toss it in yonder ashcan. And just walk the doggone guy.
5. Put simply, it’s time. He has managed the Braves since June 22, 1990. He has been managing this team nearly as long as Tommy Hanson has been alive. It has become too easy to play for him, too easy to be an Atlanta Brave. As this franchise moves into its new era — the Hanson-Heyward-Freeman-Escobar era — it wouldn’t be the worst thing to have a new voice in the dugout. It might actually be the best thing.
And now, because you asked: Here are my 5 top choices to succeed Cox as Braves manager.
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233 comments Add your comment
Greg Hawkins
September 21st, 2009
9:39 am
Enter your comments hereBradley, you need to take up Yoga (you might become flexible enough to remove your head from your tailpipe). Bobby Cox has that persona and ability, to have some high priced prima-donnas play for him and love it. Few have, or ever will find that ability. Who do you suggest is out there to take his place? Larry Bowa? Maybe we can bring back Chuck Tanner? Go write about football or at least something you know.
Ed-Covington
September 21st, 2009
9:40 am
BFDC & PA: Agreed!
Bill
September 21st, 2009
9:40 am
Reasons 1 -5 are all valid. However the Braves aren’t winning because of reasons such as blown saves and power hitters hitting .275. I only wonder if the next guy can maintain the decorum that Bobby has. The Braves don’t fight, they don’t get arrested, they’re not involved in scandals and when they do occasionally screw up royally they quickly find themselves playing for a team that tolerates bad behavior. Bobby deserves a full healthy retirement but I only hope the Braves will be as much fun to watch as a family in the post-bobby era.
Ed-Covington
September 21st, 2009
9:49 am
Remember:
The Mets, Yankees & Red Sox have all bought “HOF” pitching staffs in the past and not been able to make it to the WS every year.
Realist
September 21st, 2009
9:53 am
Bobby Cox has 2,391 career wins. That makes him the winningest manager in baseball history with only 1 world series victory. The next closest is Leo Durocher, who had 2,008.
Bobby also holds the all-time record for playoff appearances with 15. And that makes him the worst postseason manager in history, since no other manager has had at least 8 appearances without winning 2 or more World Series.
Lastly, Cox has managed for 28 seasons. Only 10 guys have managed 25 seasons or more. Of the 10, he and Gene Mauch (24 season, 0 titles) are the only two who haven’t won at least two World Series.
Realist
September 21st, 2009
9:54 am
Correction: Cox now has 2,406 career wins. Still only 1 WS, though.
itpdude
September 21st, 2009
9:55 am
The one reason he should not hang it up is to not bow out on this note. I think the Braves need to have a manager in waiting and let it be known that next year is Bobby’s last. Give him one more shot at the WS.
Then retire him.
Realist
September 21st, 2009
9:55 am
…and Mauch managed 26 seasons. My bad.
WVBrave
September 21st, 2009
9:58 am
I’m fine with retiring if he wants but having him forced out is someting different, as well as using him as a scapegoat BUT yes he does deserve some blame . Chipper said next year might be his last year – let them go out together or if a new manager can get Chipper to stay for 2 to 3 more good years then goodbye, Bobby I will miss you and appreciate EVERYTHING you have done for the Braves. Peolpe tend to forget that players come to the Braves to play for Bobby, not the big money that is thrown around (HAHA). And if Bobby goes then Terry goes with him, he CAN NOT be the next manager – Captain ted Turner was a better manager then terry ever could be one. And o yeah, get a real pitching coach also – say Glavine or Maddux.
Herschel Talker
September 21st, 2009
9:59 am
MB:
Another great blog! Finally you have come around. Your blog generally has great insights, so we’ve all been wondering when you were going to see the light. It’s about time. But better late than never! Welcome aboard the FIRE BOOBY COX bandwagon!!!
Herschel Talker
double d
September 21st, 2009
10:01 am
Enter your comments hereYeah retire grow hickory and maples on farm sale to bat mfgs.and bbq places.
double d
September 21st, 2009
10:03 am
Yeah retire grow hickory and maples on farm sale to bat mfgs.and bbq places.
JD
September 21st, 2009
10:03 am
It’s time for that old fart to go. The retirement home is waiting for him to check in.
big-um
September 21st, 2009
10:03 am
booby should have had come to JESUS meeting first of season with players and pitching staff and told them get up or get gone…like few of managers do (torre.larussia)….why they have ed norton on bench is a waste of $1.00,,,,,,,,,hudson over javier??HUH something wrong there..they need to bring back smoltz as bullpen coach!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jt
September 21st, 2009
10:07 am
Mark, I hold him in the same high regard as you. And I think what you say has merit, but I can not bring myself to want him to retire. It is sort of like, “… the devil you know versus the devil you don’t know”. I worry about who is replacment would be, and even in his present state he is better than almost all others.
Gary
September 21st, 2009
10:09 am
The weekend series against the Phillies proved to me that Bobby doesn’t seem to have anything left in the tank. I love the guy to death and thank him for everything he has done for the franchise (remember, he built that 1991 team from the ground up as GM before 1990), but all great things must come to an end. Our run came to an end and it is time for Bobby to call it a career as well. Move back up to the front office, analyze talent with Wren and Co. and rebuild this franchise for another 15 years.
Even with a new manager next year, the Braves should be a team to watch in the NL East. Get over wetting the bed when playing the Phillies and you will be the team to beat. I know, easier said than done.
Bobby, retire now and go into the HOF with Maddux in 5 years (hopefully with Glavine as well).
All I'm Saying Is...
September 21st, 2009
10:10 am
While, I can understand the opinion that maybe the Braves and BC should part company, your five reasons, Bradley, are either invalid or not supported by facts. Just because he’s been the Braves manager for almost 20 years and he’s 68 years old are irrelevant. What’s relevant is if he can get the best out of his players and manage the intricacies of the game despite being 68 and in the same position for almost two decades. The answer to that question is yes. Once Wren helped get rid of the three anchors dragging this team down — Schafer, Francoeur, and Johnson — the Braves win/loss record has been stellar. If the ultimate determination of whether a manager is doing the job is wins and losses, then reasons 2, 3, and 5 are not supported by the facts as once we obtained and/or started playing some productive players (see Prado, McLouth and anyone other than Francoeur in RF), we took off.
Where BC can be challenged is that (1) he’s loyal to a fault and (2) he is and always has been an Earl Weaver type manager: no consistent use of the hit and run, no aggressiveness in running the bases instilled in his players in spring training, stick to the same pattern in the use of the bullpen (letting the starters off the hook after six innings) and let’s wait on the three-run homer. If you all of sudden want a philosophical change in how the Braves are managed (which is a fair point), then I don’t see anyone better out there to manage the Braves.
What you should argue, Bradley, is that
1) With McLouth, Prado, and Escobar (and potentially Heyward and Freeman), we have the makings of speed oriented team offensively and defensively and we need a different style of manager, someone who won’t sit around and wait on the three run homer, someone who will tinker with his batting lineup, someone who will use his bullpen creatively, etc.
and
2) The Braves do not need to have an annual discussion about whether BC will continue and we need to prepare ourselves in the manager position for the next five years which means either sign BC to a five year deal (with the bench coach his designated successor) OR do not offer him a new deal (i.e. ask him to retire).
The Yankees let Torre go and they improved. The same could happen to the Braves. Just make sure your reasons make sense. Mine do. Yours don’t Bradley. (And just in case you are still not convinced, Bradley, try this on: You’ve been a writer with the AJ/C for 25 years, you’re older than the average bear, and you haven’t won any writing or journalism awards lately (certainly not in the last two years despite have oodles of good material to write about). So by your argument, the AJ/C should cut you loose too.).
Ed-Covington
September 21st, 2009
10:13 am
Realist:
Inferrring that Gene Mauch & Bobby Cox were/are bad managers based solely on your stats shows your lack of baseball knowledge. Both were/are great managers. Comparing Bobby Cox to Gene Mauch would be seen as a complement by anyone in MLB, especially Bobby Cox himself.
jeffrey d
September 21st, 2009
10:14 am
Thanks Mark. You put what had to be said in a lot nicer manner than most of us would’ve.
Robert
September 21st, 2009
10:15 am
Cox is the most overrated manager of all time, and quite possibly one the worst manager in the history of baseball. With the teams he has had since taking over the reins , he should have a minimum of three WS titles and could reasonably have expected to win as many as eight.
Yes his players like him, but his only strong point, which is how he backs his players and doesnt badmouth them in public, becomes a negative when he carries it to ridiculous extremes
Strategically, he is a joke. You wanna win close ballgames? Then watch what Cox does and do the opposite.
He shouldve been fired after the 1993 season when after having the best team in the game for third year running, the Braves got humbled by a very good, but far inferior, Phillies team.
Give any human being on the planet Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz, and they’ll match what Cox did
KD
September 21st, 2009
10:17 am
Bobby just needs to go period, he’s coaching in the past, no speed in the line at all, being loyal to players past their prime has gotten him nowhere, except losing out on future prospects. Get rid of him and everybody else in the coaching staff, especially TP and seeif you can get Joe Torre back.
jeffrey d
September 21st, 2009
10:18 am
And I love how this article is directly under “Cox can’t walk away from richly stocked Braves”
Mitch C
September 21st, 2009
10:18 am
Mark, you’ve changed your position since the beginning of the season. If you remember earlier in 2009, when I was writing “Retirement”, you were saying I was making Bobby the scapegoat, and that the Braves problems were not his fault. Actually, after reading your reasons today, I agree with them.
A few weeks ago, when the Braves were in the middle of the hot streak, and it looked like we had a chance to make the playoffs, I would have been okay with him coming back in 2010. Now, with our playoff hopes all but over, I just think that four years out of the playoffs, after fourteen straight division titles, calls for a change in the manager’s chair, especially with the pitching upgrades we made this year.
So, we now agree it’s time for Bobby to leave. My question to you then is, who do you think should be our new manager?
Robert
September 21st, 2009
10:19 am
“If you want BC to leave, you better have an adequate replacement in mind.”
Pick up the phone book to any city in any country in the world. Open to a random page and point to a random name. You will have found a better baseball manager than Bobby Cox
Tommy Lawhorne
September 21st, 2009
10:19 am
He is still the best.
Earl
September 21st, 2009
10:19 am
I agree with MB that it is time for BC to retire,I do not think that u can blame the Braves woes all on BC.They need to package up G Anderson,Church,Johnson and Norton and make an effort to get what they need in the outfield-speed,power and hustle
Herman
September 21st, 2009
10:20 am
Bobby should stay as long as HE wants…..he is the best!
Robert
September 21st, 2009
10:21 am
“I love the guy to death and thank him for everything he has done for the franchise”
What has he done for the franchise besides costing them 10 or 12 games every season?
Herschel Talker
September 21st, 2009
10:21 am
MB – good to see you have finally come around to the truth.
David Granger
September 21st, 2009
10:22 am
I’ve always felt that Bobby Cox made some rather strange moves, at times…especially with the pitching staff. Nonetheless, he’s been the best manager we’ve ever had here in Atlanta, and gave us a wonderful run. (The stretch down the wire in 1991 is something I’ll never forget.)
But I’ve always thought that…while he was excellent at building a team and making the players feel that they were part of something special…he was not always the best at getting that team to win as much as they could. (He seemed to be more of an Eisenhower than a Patton.)
But in Bobby’s defense, it has been difficult for the Braves to compete since Ted Turner sold his empire. Ted would spend money on the team because it was a point of pride with him for the Braves to be good, not because it was cost-effective. (And, in fact, it was an EXPENSE, not an investment.) Nowadays the team is run by a corporation without the local ties that Ted had, so many more decisions are based on economic factors. One of the worst things in baseball (or any sport, for that matter) is to see young players develop in the farm system, play their way to the majors, and then leave…because one they establish themselves and are eligible for free-agency, the team can’t (or won’t) pay them the going rate. We were lucky for a long time here in Atlanta not to know what that was like…and not only did we keep our young players, but we also were one of the teams who could afford to sign other teams’ stars…Maddux, McGriff, etc. (I remember once Denny Neagle beat us one night, pitching a very nice game…then Atlanta signed him next day. I seem to recall you even writing a column about that, Mark…as indicative of something really wrong with basetball.) Many of the signings were outright purchases, of course…but a team would trade us a player just because…if they didn’t…the player was going to leave and they’d get nothing.
And that’s another reason Bobby Cox should leave. It’s possible to be competitive, if you spend your money wisely and aren’t afraid to let some of those aggressive, hustling youngsters show what they can do. But Atlanta can’t afford to be REALLY competitive, like we used to.
Thanks, Manager Cox. And goodbye, sir.
HANSON!!
September 21st, 2009
10:24 am
Is hanson going to pitch in his regular spot this week?
Braves Fan #1
September 21st, 2009
10:24 am
Totally disagree with nearly every point you try to make. We are beyond lucky to have Bobby Cox.
There is no one available out there who can manage like Bobby Cox.
steveh
September 21st, 2009
10:24 am
Bobby deserves to go out on his own terms. I hope he takes one more crack at it next season. The Braves have made a good run this year. Quite honestly, they have done much better than I anticipated.
As for reason#5 you said, “It has become too easy to play for him, too easy to be an Atlanta Brave”. I wonder if Escobar feels that way? Bobby has been pretty hard on him (and rightly so).
RHR
September 21st, 2009
10:27 am
Who are your suggested replacements, Mark? I agree that his best managerial years are behind him, but boy those big old shoes will be hard to fill. I’m an Eddie Perez fan myself but I don’t know if he’ll ever get a chance.
Ed-Covington
September 21st, 2009
10:29 am
BTW:
MY son called me yesterday morning from Ireland, his plabe had just landed in Shannon from Kuwait. He has been doing convoy escort duty as a Ma Deuce gunner on an MRAP for the past year in Iraq. So proud of him and so happy that the GOOD LORD saw him safely through his duty to his country. He’s on his way back to Hawaii now for a year.
I know that this is too serious a note, and I am the world’s biggest sports fan; but there are times that other things must take priority.
Thanks for your time and patience and God Bless everyone
dave
September 21st, 2009
10:32 am
Whatever, . . . I just want the Braves to WIN!
Daybed Wagmoe
September 21st, 2009
10:35 am
Excellent points, especially number 3. Very well said.
realist
September 21st, 2009
10:36 am
Let Bobby coach as long as he is able. Who are you to give reason why he should quit. He has given much of his life to the Braves.
Diehard
September 21st, 2009
10:42 am
Enter your comments here
God bless you for saying the truth – the organization owes Bobby so let him do PR stunts like the Hawks do with Dominique but let’s hire this generation’s Torre and go win another ring.
Scott from Fairburn
September 21st, 2009
10:45 am
The 2009 Braves have outscored opponents by 74 runs and won 79 games. The 2009 Marlins have outscored opponents by seven runs and have won 80.
‘Nuff said
Blackberry Cobbler
September 21st, 2009
10:45 am
Be careful what you wish for.
I too wish a farewell to Booby Cox. But if he retires, the next Braves manager WILL be Terry Pendleton. Mark my words. It WILL happen. If the Braves don’t promote him to manager, the “race card” will be played loud and clear. Mark my words.
Steve
September 21st, 2009
10:46 am
Take those same 5 reasons, and apply them to yourself. Both of you need to put on the shelf.
Scott
September 21st, 2009
10:47 am
I hope Bobby manages the Braves for 20 more years…at least.
GO BRAVES !
Brian
September 21st, 2009
10:50 am
Robert, you are either ignorant or being obtuse to say Bobby Cox hasn’t done anything for this franchise.
All he did was help take the laughingstock of the National League and turn it into a championship team, a perennial contender, and one of the most highly respected organizations in baseball. Other than that, though, I see your point…
samuel melvin
September 21st, 2009
10:51 am
His Ass should been gone years ago.
samuel melvin
September 21st, 2009
10:51 am
Enter your comments here
Jim Feely
September 21st, 2009
10:54 am
Totally agree with your assessment of the current Bobby Cox. If Bobby still wants to remain in baseball. Give him an executive position that allows him to evaluate player personnel, except pitchers. If Bobby has a fault, it’s micro management in the manner in which he works his pitching staff. Additionally, another dimension beside the big rally and the long ball need to be a part of a team to the extent they are able. Hit,run, steal hit and run. Complete games by starting pitchers. Then he’ll stay with Lowe and other of the seasoned pros in after they give up five hits in a row.
What’s he looking for, a miracle. Tom Glavine was a horrible first inning pitcher and we knew that, but very few others are as resilient. It’s demoralizing to a pitcher when that happens and he knows hen his stuff or placement isn’t working. Bobby is looking for a sign from the heavens.Time to go Bobby, and do it with some class. The club isn’t in a position to release him, that would be undignified.
Maybe he hates the idea of having to spend as much time with his wife; they have had their problems.
Duke DeLuca
September 21st, 2009
10:54 am
Let’s bring back Bobby Cox and dump Mark Bradley. I don’t know whose cousin he is, but he has never been a major market writer and he’s been there way too long. As he has aged, he has lost whatever creative writing skills he might have had. AJC needs some young blood. He should have a lot of money by now. It’s just time for Bradley to go.
Me, I want some more championships. Let’s keep Bobby Cox.
Trey
September 21st, 2009
10:55 am
As my old friend Clusters would say, “We was talking and we need Cox to stay.”
Tony
September 21st, 2009
10:56 am
It is past time for him to be gone, we need a fresh mind at the helm. He leaves pitchers in too long, then we have no chance. He is too set in his way.