5 reasons Bobby Cox needs to hang it up now
Bobby Cox can argue all he wants, but I've come to my conclusion: This is the right time for him to step aside. (AJC photo by Elissa Eubanks)
1. He has nothing to prove. He’s a Hall of Famer. He has won 15 division titles, five pennants and a World Series. He has done it all, and all he’s seeking to do now is repeat after himself. Retire next month and nobody — well, almost nobody — will hold Greg Norton against him.
2. He’s 68 years old. He has money, a large family and the farm in Adairsville. Five years ago he told me what a older friend once told him: “Don’t wait too long to retire, Bobby, because then you can’t do nothin’.” There are a lot of somethings Cox hasn’t yet done. Like go to the Kentucky Derby. Or the Indy 500. Or do anything that happens between February and October and doesn’t involve getting to the ballpark at 11 a.m. for a night game.
3. He’s not quite the manager he once was. This is hard for me to say. As you know, I hold the man in the highest esteem. But this should have been a better team. (Not a great team, but a better one.) The 2009 Braves have outscored opponents by 74 runs and won 79 games. The 2009 Marlins have outscored opponents by seven runs and have won 80.
4. He’s getting even more stubborn, which is never good. Let’s return to what Cox said about pitching to Ryan Howard after Friday’s game (in which Howard hit two more home runs): “We’ve got a good plan. We just make mistakes.” If you can’t execute the plan, wad it up and toss it in yonder ashcan. And just walk the doggone guy.
5. Put simply, it’s time. He has managed the Braves since June 22, 1990. He has been managing this team nearly as long as Tommy Hanson has been alive. It has become too easy to play for him, too easy to be an Atlanta Brave. As this franchise moves into its new era — the Hanson-Heyward-Freeman-Escobar era — it wouldn’t be the worst thing to have a new voice in the dugout. It might actually be the best thing.
And now, because you asked: Here are my 5 top choices to succeed Cox as Braves manager.
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228 comments Add your comment
scottbravesfan
September 21st, 2009
3:26 am
Don’t forget about Jair Jurrjens in that era statement. They should sign him to a long term deal now and seeing how Scott Boras is his agent, it’s going to cost them.
Ostrich Racer
September 21st, 2009
3:44 am
I don’t think he needs to hang it up — but I hope he wants to, for reasons 1, 2 and 5. We need a legend to remember and talk about when we get mad at the next guy. (And we will, eventually, no matter who it is — see Cox, Bobby.) It has been a wonderful ride, and it might be next year, but why take that chance? Chipper can help TP get comfortable in the big chair next year, then maybe transition into coaching himself.
Chief Nocahoma
September 21st, 2009
4:13 am
Bobby is one of the best managers in the game and shouldn’t hang it up because players don’t get hits, make plays or throw good pitches at key times. Bobby’s moves put players in position to succeed, but it’s up to the players to take the next step.
I would agree with you if the Braves were loosing a bunch of games with the tying or go ahead runs were in scoring position and nothing but a relief pitcher holding a bat at the plate. But that doesn’t happen to Bobby – meaning that he is doing his job and putting the players in position to win the game nightly.
If Chipper were hitting .325 instead of .271 and Sorreano and Gonzalous hadn’t blown 11 saves between them – we would probably be leading the division and nobody would be talking seriously about Bobby retiring. This is just baseball – if any one should consider retiring, it’s Chipper, not Bobby.
Richard Nieh
September 21st, 2009
4:37 am
I agree with what you said, Bobby is losing his touch. Some of the managing decision with bullpen is a bit two sided, either it is too conservative or too aggressive. He stuck with Johnson and Francoeur were truly taking too long for the Braves in the first half and some of the hiccups in the second really killed Braves’ playoffs chances as well.
I still think he got good eye for pulling trades for the Braves team; he really should become a senior advisor or something and leave managing to some of the younger managers.
By the way, I don’t like your comments about Braves should be a better team, not a great team and blah, blah. In fact, I think they have a very good team right now. I went from 6 games under .500 to 10 games above .500 shown that they improved a lot this season. It is just hard to go from a disappointing season to become a world champion all of sudden.
If the Braves can play the same level as they did in the second half in 2010 for a whole season, they should be 20-25 above .500 and that is a legitimate record to challenge Phillies for divisional champion.
Coach (2010 or Bust)
September 21st, 2009
4:55 am
Agreed on all points Mark. But will Terry McQuirk and John Schuerholz be able to persuade Bobby to retire, and if not, will they have the balls to show him the door?
It is time for this great franchise to move into the future. Cox is part of the gloried past. Parting paths is the obvious choice.
Jumbo
September 21st, 2009
6:25 am
Cox should have retired many years ago when he proved, on the field, that he could only stumble to one World Series win despite 15 division championships. His glaring flaw is his preference for mediocre older players and staying with struggling players too long. However, the most significant problem is that the Braves are TOO even keel: there is never any spark. The team currently has a great group of younger players and outstanding pitchers, and they need a manager that can stir the pot and accomplish something. With Cox, it will be like the kid with perfect school attendance, but a “C” average: i.e., mediocre.
JD
September 21st, 2009
6:27 am
The biggest problem that I have had with Bobby Cox is the thing that all the veteran players like about him. His undying loyalty to those veterans to the detrement of the team. He takes too long to realize that a player has lost it. Ala Chipper Jones, Francoeur, A. Jones, etc.
UGASlobberknocker
September 21st, 2009
6:30 am
Ive never been a Cox basher; I dont hold him responsible for onlyone World Series title..I thank him for that one. But Mark is absolutely right..it is time for him to retire gracefully.
We need someone who will stir it up a bit in that dugout..I want to see some passion every now and then.an occasional shoving match if someone isnt hustling..having a little edge isnt a bad thing.
NCBravesFan
September 21st, 2009
7:01 am
Mark – thanks for this post. The changing of the guard on the pitching staff and in the front office has taken place, and a new crop of Braves is ready to usher in the next generation of ATL baseball. It just makes sense now for new leadership in the dugout.
In one way, it would have been nice to have a year to reflect on his legacy and for all of baseball to have a goodbye season – but I doubt Bobby would or will ever go out that way. In his case, I’m sure we won’t know it’s over until it’s over.
YAD
September 21st, 2009
7:03 am
Team too dull? Need a spark? Want some passion, someone who will stir things up and create excitement in the dugout?
Hey, I’ll bet that Milton Bradley is available!
Bill Heller
September 21st, 2009
7:13 am
6. Cox can’t put together a decent batting order: Our best HR hitters are hitting 7th and 1st (LaRoche and McLouth), our best hitter for average (Diaz) oftten bats 8th, Chipper shouldn’t have stayed in the 3 hole with his stats…
zorba
September 21st, 2009
7:24 am
Enter your comments here
Well written, Mark. Respectful, clear, and assertive. Bobby, move on.
Bob Horner had a sweet compact swing
September 21st, 2009
7:36 am
great read Mark….ummm…are you going to do a 5 reasons why he shouldn’t retire..?? I hope….
Larry
September 21st, 2009
7:40 am
Mark,
Finally!
Finally, an AJC reporter has the courage to come out and at least take a position on Bobby Cox. You see, we may disagree on many things about Bobby’s strengths, weaknesses, tendencies or decisions, but at least you’ve demonstrated the courage and willingness to discuss or debate, unlike the other two AJC reporters who have avoided this like the plague. And even though I believe you’re a few years (at least 2-3 years) too late, you’ve embraced the truth and were the first to stick your neck out. You now have my respect and I do not afford this unduly.
Regards,
Larry (1-14)
Bank Walker, Texas Ranger
September 21st, 2009
7:51 am
Like a Kentucky Derby winner, it is time for Bobby to head out to pasture and get paid just to take the mares and…..beat the hell out of em.
curtis jones
September 21st, 2009
7:55 am
Good job Mark. You have echoed the frustrations of most serious fans, while giving credit where due. Thanks Bobby, but it’s time to go.
Slick Willard
September 21st, 2009
7:57 am
Pendleton was a solid third baseman and hitter himself but he apparently is not one who can influence others as a hitting coach. Starting with Andrew Jones, his failures are legion. Why compound our felony and promote him to the manager’s job when it becomes available based on his proven inability to produce well in his current position? I’m sure he’s a likeable person but so are others in baseball. That should not be a factor in the selection. Maybe what the Braves need in a manager is a good “people person” but with a sterner attitude about discipline than Cox. Hang it up, Bobby, and enjoy your family time on the farm.
Plate Appearance
September 21st, 2009
7:59 am
5 REASONS WHY BOBBY SHOULD STAY
1. No one handles young players better than Bobby.
2. He’s great at managing people, and much more is involved here than most realize or acknowledge.
3. He actively roots for and fights for his players in each and every game, getting the best out of them in this way. Moreover, he stays in every game, rather than simply sitting on the bench in a seemingly disinterested or unimpassioned way, as does say a Lou Piniella.
4. The players love, respect, and want to play for him.
5. He’s not the reason for the team’s ills this season — and remains the consummate Brave’s manager. No one’s better!
kurula
September 21st, 2009
8:04 am
6. he’s just padding an unreachable record at this point. no one will be thrown out of as many games as him! at this point, he’s like the power hitter trying to pad the career totals at the end. although unlike the erst-while slugger, he is doing it with more frequency now than when he was in his prime.
shortcircuit
September 21st, 2009
8:11 am
Enter your comments her walk Howard for goodness sake!!!! Why would you pitch to a guy who hits 2 homers every game against you. The omly way I don’t walk him is if the bases are loaded and then maybe if we are 2 runs ahead.His time is up. He has been a good regular season manager but terrible in the post season
MVick
September 21st, 2009
8:12 am
Glad to see you’ve been reading the comments on Jeff Schultz’s page, Mark.
Mark Bradley
September 21st, 2009
8:15 am
Ryan Howard has hit eight homers against Atlanta in a little over a month. If you are willing to concede him singles by playing that shift, why won’t you concede first base via a base on balls?
Marvin Mangrum
September 21st, 2009
8:19 am
All you ever hear is how great Bobby is, one World Championship! One, what is so great about that? I saw in Port St Lucie, Jermaine Dye, years ago, 400 homers ago, Jermaine Dye was a powerhouse with an arm. Bobby never liked him, never. Played one year! Greg Norton, shoot he will pick it up soon and will get the BA to 150. If to the owners, if to upper management Bobby Cox is the answer, they should all be fired. Gawd I was sick of him in the 90’s. Winning 9000 ball games is not the answer, winning one world title is!
F-105 Thunderchief
September 21st, 2009
8:21 am
scottbravesfan is right about Jurrjens. And, speaking of which, maybe the Braves need to trade with the Tigers for a right-handed pitcher more than once every 20 years.
F-105 Thunderchief
September 21st, 2009
8:29 am
I agree that Bobby Cox should retire now. The team is in transition and part of that should be a new manager. He is deservedly a hall of famer, but he has seemed to diminish in performance this year, and the stat you offer re: the Marlins is pretty compelling.
Off topic, I’ve developed a new way to avoid dyspepsia while reading the AJC blogs. I only read the author’s post and follow up comments – not the posts of readers (scottbravesfan was a slip). That way I don’t waste my time with idiots calling for Joe Cox to be benched following a five-touchdown game and other craziness.
kurula
September 21st, 2009
8:33 am
i don’t really recall him ever being a big fan of the IBB. the year bonds broke the single season homer record i was at a game in which bonds homered three times. each situation begged for an intentional walk. hell, that year the bases loaded with bonds up called for the free pass. maybe it’s a pride thing. maybe it’s about respect. who knows?
blazerdawg
September 21st, 2009
8:33 am
Right on PA @ 7:59 AM! BC definately cost the Braves some games this year, but Chipper, Francouer, and Soriano cost them more by not performing as everyone expected. Now that the Braves know what they have, I expect next year will be a lot of fun – especially with BC managing.
AndyC
September 21st, 2009
8:37 am
Right on the money Mark and you did it in a way that was not insulting to Cox. Well done.
Mike Malone
September 21st, 2009
8:38 am
I hope Bobby has the good sense to retire gracefully, before Frank “the legend killer” Wren tells him it’s over. I don’t think it will come to that. But if it does, Wren will say something ugly, in a way that only he can.
Required Reading | Hard Knox Sports
September 21st, 2009
8:38 am
[...] 5 reasons Cox can retire. [AJC] [...]
Mark Bradley
September 21st, 2009
8:38 am
Thanks, Andy. Believe it or not, that was kind of the aim.
curtis jones
September 21st, 2009
8:41 am
A gift for you Cox lovers. You can thank me later.
5 Reasons why our beloved leader should stay:
1. We’re too busy in October to be watching baseball.
2. Greg Norton needs a job, too.
3. We like Chipper batting 3rd. It’s a tradition.
4. We like the way Bobby puts the best hitters at the bottom of the lineup. He’s innovative, even for an old man.
5. He feels the players should earn their pay. There’s no reason for those boys in the bullpen to just sit around. Put ‘em in the game!
Don
September 21st, 2009
8:44 am
Your conclusion is correct, although your reasons are extrmely low keyed. Truth is Bobby Cox has made blunder after blunder, game after game this year. With our very good pitching talent and reasonably good offensive potential, it is almost unbelievable that the Braves have won barely over half their games. But the main point you miss is that this weakness as a manager is nothing new. He has never been been a good manager. He has always almost completely ignored the most improtant necessity in getting the most out of your hitters — that is, teaching, emphasizing, demanding — working the count, being selective, making the opposing pitcher throw a lot of pitches – which has multiple advantages: seeing what the pitcher has, adjusting to the pitcher, getting better pitches to hit, making him make mistakes, tireing him out both withn innings and for the game, getting into the teams weak middle relief etc. And this is just one continuous mistake – lack of management that has cost many games year after year. In addition, he makes blunder after blunder in his in game strategis and moves or lack thereof. He is extremely slow to make linup changes, the necessity of which is obvious to everyone – example, getting Prado into the linuup this year, getting Francouer out of the lineup, continuing to use Norton – just a few of many examples. He does not move players up and down in the batting order based of their being hot or cold – example, keeping Chipper in 3rd spot in order throughout prolonged slump. His use of the bullpen has always been terrible. So many times in – in game situations he makes moves or lack thereof that are exactly what the opposing manager wants him to do. He is terrible as far as putting pressure on the opposing pitcher – so many times mkes a move or like thereof that takes the pressure off. He is good at maintaing team moral, making players like him etc. He was fortunate enough to have been manager of a team that had an All Star Pitching Staff so far far superior to everyone else in the Division (in a fairly weak Diviison) that was good enouough to overcome his weakness as a Manage and win the Division of the long 162 game sechedule – for 14 years. But remember, that even with this tremendous advantage, he usually only barely won the Division and won only 1 WS in 14 opportunities (and that required Glavine pitching a shutout).
Mark Bradley
September 21st, 2009
8:45 am
That’s me. Low-key.
Ed-Covington
September 21st, 2009
8:48 am
MB:
If you want BC to leave, you better have an adequate replacement in mind. All of your reasons are valid only if that is the case. Change #2 to “54″ instead of 68, and #3 to “journalist” instead of manager and these reasons could apply to you, or to anyone’s spouse or old friend, for that matter. None are REALLY valid unless there is a far better alternative. Just ask dawg fans who bitched about BVG and now have WM!
Mark Bradley
September 21st, 2009
8:49 am
Brad Mills, Red Sox bench coach, or Jose Oquendo, Cardinals coach. Those are my choices.
Jeff Kender
September 21st, 2009
8:55 am
Enter your comments here I agree Cox needs to retire this will probley be 4 years in a row with no playoffs. If he dont wont to retire the GM should persuade him to..
Navigator
September 21st, 2009
9:07 am
I agree with all 5 points, nothing else to say.
Ed-Covington
September 21st, 2009
9:09 am
Oquendo, maybe. Don’t know much about Mills. Do you see the Marlins doing another housecleaning and their manager (Gonzales?) ending up here? All the sports sites earlier in the year claimed that Wren was high on Pendleton.
Braves Fan in Dawg Country
September 21st, 2009
9:13 am
Bobby, please stay as long as you want! We can’t get anyone any better. Only other people I would want coaching (and not necessarily more than Bobby) are both in California (Torre and especially Scioscia), so I don’t think either one is likely to leave. Sure, it is easy to second guess Bobby on a few specific things, but you don’t think you would second guess whoever you would get to replace him given 162 chances? Appreciate what you have while you can. It is not often you get a hall of fame manager.
BBrown
September 21st, 2009
9:15 am
Mark, come on, be careful what you wish for here. You just might get it. You may have some beefs with him but I don’t see any replacements that come near his credentials. Did you read your colleague Furman Bisher’s column on Sunday? Remember Casey Stengel managed until he was 75 and Connie Mack until he was 88. Baseball is passion for Bobby. Why give up on a passion?
DP
September 21st, 2009
9:15 am
Bobby doesn’t seem to realize that Ryan Howard is essentially 2 different players depending on whether he’s facing left handed or right handed pitchers. Against lefties this year, he is hitting .190, slugging .333, has an OPS of .618 and hits a home run every 42 at bats. Against righthanders, he is hitting .319, slugging .701, has an OPS of 1.096 and hits a home run every 9.8 at bats.
Howard’s stats versus right handed pitching are very comparable to the overall stats of Albert Pujols this year. His stats versus left handed pitching are slightly worse than the overall stats of Kelly Johnson.
The Braves are ill equipped to pitch to Howard because they have nothing but right handed starting pitching. Beyond that there’s also the incredibly stupid move Cox made weeks ago, in which he pulled Gonzales after a 14 pitch 8th inning and went to Soriano to start the 9th against Howard. Home run, Phillies win 3-2.
I have been a defender of Cox in the past but he has become as stubborn as a mule and accountable to nobody. It is time for him to go.
Phil
September 21st, 2009
9:16 am
Bradley has finally seen the light. I welcome him over to our side.
The rest of you Cox lovers go back and read what Bradley wrote. You know it’s the truth. I wouldn’t have been so nice about it, but I will refrain fron name calling and simply agree once again that it’s past time for Cox to go.
Braves Fan in Dawg Country
September 21st, 2009
9:16 am
But I agree, I would walk Ryan Howard every time he came up. I do wish Bobby would give in on that…
Braves Fan in Dawg Country
September 21st, 2009
9:18 am
Plate Appearance, couldn’t have said it better, thanks!
braves1710
September 21st, 2009
9:21 am
MB I need help. Im in the finals in fantasy this week and have laroche, escobar and hanson on my team. I read a report last week that the braves might skip him a start. Is he going to pitch this week? Any idea how long Laroche and Escobar will be out of the lineup?
Anyone please help. My braves got me here, no i need them to help me win!!!
David
September 21st, 2009
9:28 am
I’ve been slowly joining the “time for Cox to go” chorus. After pulling Hanson against Houston, refusing to walk Howard this weekend and not playing McCann every day (what are you saving him for Bobby, that lineup yesterday was just sad), I’m fully there now. Graciously walk away Bobby, we’ll all deservedly applaud you. But it’s time.
Doug
September 21st, 2009
9:31 am
Enter your comments here
Bobby and Chipper need to go at the same time, preferably after next season. Let’s do it with some class this time.
Brian
September 21st, 2009
9:33 am
Mark, how is the shift they put on Howard “conceding singles”? It’s exactly the opposite…they do that to take away singles, and it works. Ryan Howard does not hit ground balls to the left side. Maybe one or two all season. Why do you need someone over there?
Brian
September 21st, 2009
9:35 am
(Not directed at you, Mark)
Example #1,564,348 of “People will complain about anything”:
I vividly remember in the last month everyone complaining about Bobby playing Brian McCann too much. Now they’re mad when he gives him rest. Why am I not surprised…
Greg Hawkins
September 21st, 2009
9:39 am
Enter your comments hereBradley, you need to take up Yoga (you might become flexible enough to remove your head from your tailpipe). Bobby Cox has that persona and ability, to have some high priced prima-donnas play for him and love it. Few have, or ever will find that ability. Who do you suggest is out there to take his place? Larry Bowa? Maybe we can bring back Chuck Tanner? Go write about football or at least something you know.
Ed-Covington
September 21st, 2009
9:40 am
BFDC & PA: Agreed!
Bill
September 21st, 2009
9:40 am
Reasons 1 -5 are all valid. However the Braves aren’t winning because of reasons such as blown saves and power hitters hitting .275. I only wonder if the next guy can maintain the decorum that Bobby has. The Braves don’t fight, they don’t get arrested, they’re not involved in scandals and when they do occasionally screw up royally they quickly find themselves playing for a team that tolerates bad behavior. Bobby deserves a full healthy retirement but I only hope the Braves will be as much fun to watch as a family in the post-bobby era.
Ed-Covington
September 21st, 2009
9:49 am
Remember:
The Mets, Yankees & Red Sox have all bought “HOF” pitching staffs in the past and not been able to make it to the WS every year.
Realist
September 21st, 2009
9:53 am
Bobby Cox has 2,391 career wins. That makes him the winningest manager in baseball history with only 1 world series victory. The next closest is Leo Durocher, who had 2,008.
Bobby also holds the all-time record for playoff appearances with 15. And that makes him the worst postseason manager in history, since no other manager has had at least 8 appearances without winning 2 or more World Series.
Lastly, Cox has managed for 28 seasons. Only 10 guys have managed 25 seasons or more. Of the 10, he and Gene Mauch (24 season, 0 titles) are the only two who haven’t won at least two World Series.
Realist
September 21st, 2009
9:54 am
Correction: Cox now has 2,406 career wins. Still only 1 WS, though.
itpdude
September 21st, 2009
9:55 am
The one reason he should not hang it up is to not bow out on this note. I think the Braves need to have a manager in waiting and let it be known that next year is Bobby’s last. Give him one more shot at the WS.
Then retire him.
Realist
September 21st, 2009
9:55 am
…and Mauch managed 26 seasons. My bad.
WVBrave
September 21st, 2009
9:58 am
I’m fine with retiring if he wants but having him forced out is someting different, as well as using him as a scapegoat BUT yes he does deserve some blame . Chipper said next year might be his last year – let them go out together or if a new manager can get Chipper to stay for 2 to 3 more good years then goodbye, Bobby I will miss you and appreciate EVERYTHING you have done for the Braves. Peolpe tend to forget that players come to the Braves to play for Bobby, not the big money that is thrown around (HAHA). And if Bobby goes then Terry goes with him, he CAN NOT be the next manager – Captain ted Turner was a better manager then terry ever could be one. And o yeah, get a real pitching coach also – say Glavine or Maddux.
Herschel Talker
September 21st, 2009
9:59 am
MB:
Another great blog! Finally you have come around. Your blog generally has great insights, so we’ve all been wondering when you were going to see the light. It’s about time. But better late than never! Welcome aboard the FIRE BOOBY COX bandwagon!!!
Herschel Talker
double d
September 21st, 2009
10:01 am
Enter your comments hereYeah retire grow hickory and maples on farm sale to bat mfgs.and bbq places.
double d
September 21st, 2009
10:03 am
Yeah retire grow hickory and maples on farm sale to bat mfgs.and bbq places.
JD
September 21st, 2009
10:03 am
It’s time for that old fart to go. The retirement home is waiting for him to check in.
big-um
September 21st, 2009
10:03 am
booby should have had come to JESUS meeting first of season with players and pitching staff and told them get up or get gone…like few of managers do (torre.larussia)….why they have ed norton on bench is a waste of $1.00,,,,,,,,,hudson over javier??HUH something wrong there..they need to bring back smoltz as bullpen coach!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jt
September 21st, 2009
10:07 am
Mark, I hold him in the same high regard as you. And I think what you say has merit, but I can not bring myself to want him to retire. It is sort of like, “… the devil you know versus the devil you don’t know”. I worry about who is replacment would be, and even in his present state he is better than almost all others.
Gary
September 21st, 2009
10:09 am
The weekend series against the Phillies proved to me that Bobby doesn’t seem to have anything left in the tank. I love the guy to death and thank him for everything he has done for the franchise (remember, he built that 1991 team from the ground up as GM before 1990), but all great things must come to an end. Our run came to an end and it is time for Bobby to call it a career as well. Move back up to the front office, analyze talent with Wren and Co. and rebuild this franchise for another 15 years.
Even with a new manager next year, the Braves should be a team to watch in the NL East. Get over wetting the bed when playing the Phillies and you will be the team to beat. I know, easier said than done.
Bobby, retire now and go into the HOF with Maddux in 5 years (hopefully with Glavine as well).
All I'm Saying Is...
September 21st, 2009
10:10 am
While, I can understand the opinion that maybe the Braves and BC should part company, your five reasons, Bradley, are either invalid or not supported by facts. Just because he’s been the Braves manager for almost 20 years and he’s 68 years old are irrelevant. What’s relevant is if he can get the best out of his players and manage the intricacies of the game despite being 68 and in the same position for almost two decades. The answer to that question is yes. Once Wren helped get rid of the three anchors dragging this team down — Schafer, Francoeur, and Johnson — the Braves win/loss record has been stellar. If the ultimate determination of whether a manager is doing the job is wins and losses, then reasons 2, 3, and 5 are not supported by the facts as once we obtained and/or started playing some productive players (see Prado, McLouth and anyone other than Francoeur in RF), we took off.
Where BC can be challenged is that (1) he’s loyal to a fault and (2) he is and always has been an Earl Weaver type manager: no consistent use of the hit and run, no aggressiveness in running the bases instilled in his players in spring training, stick to the same pattern in the use of the bullpen (letting the starters off the hook after six innings) and let’s wait on the three-run homer. If you all of sudden want a philosophical change in how the Braves are managed (which is a fair point), then I don’t see anyone better out there to manage the Braves.
What you should argue, Bradley, is that
1) With McLouth, Prado, and Escobar (and potentially Heyward and Freeman), we have the makings of speed oriented team offensively and defensively and we need a different style of manager, someone who won’t sit around and wait on the three run homer, someone who will tinker with his batting lineup, someone who will use his bullpen creatively, etc.
and
2) The Braves do not need to have an annual discussion about whether BC will continue and we need to prepare ourselves in the manager position for the next five years which means either sign BC to a five year deal (with the bench coach his designated successor) OR do not offer him a new deal (i.e. ask him to retire).
The Yankees let Torre go and they improved. The same could happen to the Braves. Just make sure your reasons make sense. Mine do. Yours don’t Bradley. (And just in case you are still not convinced, Bradley, try this on: You’ve been a writer with the AJ/C for 25 years, you’re older than the average bear, and you haven’t won any writing or journalism awards lately (certainly not in the last two years despite have oodles of good material to write about). So by your argument, the AJ/C should cut you loose too.).
Ed-Covington
September 21st, 2009
10:13 am
Realist:
Inferrring that Gene Mauch & Bobby Cox were/are bad managers based solely on your stats shows your lack of baseball knowledge. Both were/are great managers. Comparing Bobby Cox to Gene Mauch would be seen as a complement by anyone in MLB, especially Bobby Cox himself.
jeffrey d
September 21st, 2009
10:14 am
Thanks Mark. You put what had to be said in a lot nicer manner than most of us would’ve.
Robert
September 21st, 2009
10:15 am
Cox is the most overrated manager of all time, and quite possibly one the worst manager in the history of baseball. With the teams he has had since taking over the reins , he should have a minimum of three WS titles and could reasonably have expected to win as many as eight.
Yes his players like him, but his only strong point, which is how he backs his players and doesnt badmouth them in public, becomes a negative when he carries it to ridiculous extremes
Strategically, he is a joke. You wanna win close ballgames? Then watch what Cox does and do the opposite.
He shouldve been fired after the 1993 season when after having the best team in the game for third year running, the Braves got humbled by a very good, but far inferior, Phillies team.
Give any human being on the planet Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz, and they’ll match what Cox did
KD
September 21st, 2009
10:17 am
Bobby just needs to go period, he’s coaching in the past, no speed in the line at all, being loyal to players past their prime has gotten him nowhere, except losing out on future prospects. Get rid of him and everybody else in the coaching staff, especially TP and seeif you can get Joe Torre back.
jeffrey d
September 21st, 2009
10:18 am
And I love how this article is directly under “Cox can’t walk away from richly stocked Braves”
Mitch C
September 21st, 2009
10:18 am
Mark, you’ve changed your position since the beginning of the season. If you remember earlier in 2009, when I was writing “Retirement”, you were saying I was making Bobby the scapegoat, and that the Braves problems were not his fault. Actually, after reading your reasons today, I agree with them.
A few weeks ago, when the Braves were in the middle of the hot streak, and it looked like we had a chance to make the playoffs, I would have been okay with him coming back in 2010. Now, with our playoff hopes all but over, I just think that four years out of the playoffs, after fourteen straight division titles, calls for a change in the manager’s chair, especially with the pitching upgrades we made this year.
So, we now agree it’s time for Bobby to leave. My question to you then is, who do you think should be our new manager?
Robert
September 21st, 2009
10:19 am
“If you want BC to leave, you better have an adequate replacement in mind.”
Pick up the phone book to any city in any country in the world. Open to a random page and point to a random name. You will have found a better baseball manager than Bobby Cox
Tommy Lawhorne
September 21st, 2009
10:19 am
He is still the best.
Earl
September 21st, 2009
10:19 am
I agree with MB that it is time for BC to retire,I do not think that u can blame the Braves woes all on BC.They need to package up G Anderson,Church,Johnson and Norton and make an effort to get what they need in the outfield-speed,power and hustle
Herman
September 21st, 2009
10:20 am
Bobby should stay as long as HE wants…..he is the best!
Robert
September 21st, 2009
10:21 am
“I love the guy to death and thank him for everything he has done for the franchise”
What has he done for the franchise besides costing them 10 or 12 games every season?
Herschel Talker
September 21st, 2009
10:21 am
MB – good to see you have finally come around to the truth.
David Granger
September 21st, 2009
10:22 am
I’ve always felt that Bobby Cox made some rather strange moves, at times…especially with the pitching staff. Nonetheless, he’s been the best manager we’ve ever had here in Atlanta, and gave us a wonderful run. (The stretch down the wire in 1991 is something I’ll never forget.)
But I’ve always thought that…while he was excellent at building a team and making the players feel that they were part of something special…he was not always the best at getting that team to win as much as they could. (He seemed to be more of an Eisenhower than a Patton.)
But in Bobby’s defense, it has been difficult for the Braves to compete since Ted Turner sold his empire. Ted would spend money on the team because it was a point of pride with him for the Braves to be good, not because it was cost-effective. (And, in fact, it was an EXPENSE, not an investment.) Nowadays the team is run by a corporation without the local ties that Ted had, so many more decisions are based on economic factors. One of the worst things in baseball (or any sport, for that matter) is to see young players develop in the farm system, play their way to the majors, and then leave…because one they establish themselves and are eligible for free-agency, the team can’t (or won’t) pay them the going rate. We were lucky for a long time here in Atlanta not to know what that was like…and not only did we keep our young players, but we also were one of the teams who could afford to sign other teams’ stars…Maddux, McGriff, etc. (I remember once Denny Neagle beat us one night, pitching a very nice game…then Atlanta signed him next day. I seem to recall you even writing a column about that, Mark…as indicative of something really wrong with basetball.) Many of the signings were outright purchases, of course…but a team would trade us a player just because…if they didn’t…the player was going to leave and they’d get nothing.
And that’s another reason Bobby Cox should leave. It’s possible to be competitive, if you spend your money wisely and aren’t afraid to let some of those aggressive, hustling youngsters show what they can do. But Atlanta can’t afford to be REALLY competitive, like we used to.
Thanks, Manager Cox. And goodbye, sir.
HANSON!!
September 21st, 2009
10:24 am
Is hanson going to pitch in his regular spot this week?
Braves Fan #1
September 21st, 2009
10:24 am
Totally disagree with nearly every point you try to make. We are beyond lucky to have Bobby Cox.
There is no one available out there who can manage like Bobby Cox.
steveh
September 21st, 2009
10:24 am
Bobby deserves to go out on his own terms. I hope he takes one more crack at it next season. The Braves have made a good run this year. Quite honestly, they have done much better than I anticipated.
As for reason#5 you said, “It has become too easy to play for him, too easy to be an Atlanta Brave”. I wonder if Escobar feels that way? Bobby has been pretty hard on him (and rightly so).
RHR
September 21st, 2009
10:27 am
Who are your suggested replacements, Mark? I agree that his best managerial years are behind him, but boy those big old shoes will be hard to fill. I’m an Eddie Perez fan myself but I don’t know if he’ll ever get a chance.
Ed-Covington
September 21st, 2009
10:29 am
BTW:
MY son called me yesterday morning from Ireland, his plabe had just landed in Shannon from Kuwait. He has been doing convoy escort duty as a Ma Deuce gunner on an MRAP for the past year in Iraq. So proud of him and so happy that the GOOD LORD saw him safely through his duty to his country. He’s on his way back to Hawaii now for a year.
I know that this is too serious a note, and I am the world’s biggest sports fan; but there are times that other things must take priority.
Thanks for your time and patience and God Bless everyone
dave
September 21st, 2009
10:32 am
Whatever, . . . I just want the Braves to WIN!
Daybed Wagmoe
September 21st, 2009
10:35 am
Excellent points, especially number 3. Very well said.
realist
September 21st, 2009
10:36 am
Let Bobby coach as long as he is able. Who are you to give reason why he should quit. He has given much of his life to the Braves.
Diehard
September 21st, 2009
10:42 am
Enter your comments here
God bless you for saying the truth – the organization owes Bobby so let him do PR stunts like the Hawks do with Dominique but let’s hire this generation’s Torre and go win another ring.
Scott from Fairburn
September 21st, 2009
10:45 am
The 2009 Braves have outscored opponents by 74 runs and won 79 games. The 2009 Marlins have outscored opponents by seven runs and have won 80.
‘Nuff said
Blackberry Cobbler
September 21st, 2009
10:45 am
Be careful what you wish for.
I too wish a farewell to Booby Cox. But if he retires, the next Braves manager WILL be Terry Pendleton. Mark my words. It WILL happen. If the Braves don’t promote him to manager, the “race card” will be played loud and clear. Mark my words.
Steve
September 21st, 2009
10:46 am
Take those same 5 reasons, and apply them to yourself. Both of you need to put on the shelf.
Scott
September 21st, 2009
10:47 am
I hope Bobby manages the Braves for 20 more years…at least.
GO BRAVES !
Brian
September 21st, 2009
10:50 am
Robert, you are either ignorant or being obtuse to say Bobby Cox hasn’t done anything for this franchise.
All he did was help take the laughingstock of the National League and turn it into a championship team, a perennial contender, and one of the most highly respected organizations in baseball. Other than that, though, I see your point…
samuel melvin
September 21st, 2009
10:51 am
His Ass should been gone years ago.
samuel melvin
September 21st, 2009
10:51 am
Enter your comments here
Jim Feely
September 21st, 2009
10:54 am
Totally agree with your assessment of the current Bobby Cox. If Bobby still wants to remain in baseball. Give him an executive position that allows him to evaluate player personnel, except pitchers. If Bobby has a fault, it’s micro management in the manner in which he works his pitching staff. Additionally, another dimension beside the big rally and the long ball need to be a part of a team to the extent they are able. Hit,run, steal hit and run. Complete games by starting pitchers. Then he’ll stay with Lowe and other of the seasoned pros in after they give up five hits in a row.
What’s he looking for, a miracle. Tom Glavine was a horrible first inning pitcher and we knew that, but very few others are as resilient. It’s demoralizing to a pitcher when that happens and he knows hen his stuff or placement isn’t working. Bobby is looking for a sign from the heavens.Time to go Bobby, and do it with some class. The club isn’t in a position to release him, that would be undignified.
Maybe he hates the idea of having to spend as much time with his wife; they have had their problems.
Duke DeLuca
September 21st, 2009
10:54 am
Let’s bring back Bobby Cox and dump Mark Bradley. I don’t know whose cousin he is, but he has never been a major market writer and he’s been there way too long. As he has aged, he has lost whatever creative writing skills he might have had. AJC needs some young blood. He should have a lot of money by now. It’s just time for Bradley to go.
Me, I want some more championships. Let’s keep Bobby Cox.
Trey
September 21st, 2009
10:55 am
As my old friend Clusters would say, “We was talking and we need Cox to stay.”
Tony
September 21st, 2009
10:56 am
It is past time for him to be gone, we need a fresh mind at the helm. He leaves pitchers in too long, then we have no chance. He is too set in his way.