Your attention, please: This guy here criticizes Bobby Cox!
"You're lying! Bradley would never write anything like that!" (AJC photo by Curtis Compton)
I, Mark Bradley, being of failing body and always-feeble mind, do solemnly swear that I write the following of my own free will. I am not under duress. I am not under the influence of anything stronger than Snapple Diet Lemon. I write this for no other reason than I happen to believe it. And also, I must admit, for the shock value of imagining the faces of those hundreds of thousands who’ve said: “No way this guy ever says anything bad about Bobby.”
Frank Wren took the big heat over the winter, but the general manager of uncertain portfolio, has had a much better season than his Hall of Fame manager. This marks the first time in Bobby Cox’s second tour as Braves manager his team can be said to have underperformed, at least in the regular season. This isn’t a team of vast talent, no, but neither is this a club that should have fallen from contention on Labor Day eve.
The Braves awoke Tuesday with the National League’s fourth-best ERA. Two of the teams above them are leading divisions, and the third, San Francisco, has a real chance of winning the wild card. A team with that sort of pitching could and should be in the playoff hunt, but the Braves are 7 1/2 games behind the wild card leader with 25 to go. In sum, it’s over.
If we fault Wren for not bolstering his batting order sooner — and we can also make the case that fixing the rotation first was the absolute proper course — we must concede the GM attempted correction after mid-course correction. He made three major in-season trades for everyday players, which is as much as anyone could reasonably expect. And there’s also this:
The Braves haven’t hit all that much, but as of Labor Day they had a higher team batting average than the Cardinals, the Phillies and the Giants. Put another way, the Braves have both outhit and outpitched Philadelphia — and yet they lag in the standings by 8 games.
For nearly two decades we’ve assumed Cox will maximize the resources on hand. He hasn’t done it this season. He has overworked his bullpen and done strange things with his two nominal closers and relied on Greg Norton to get the key pinch-hit two dozen times too many. He has also failed to be even slightly creative with his lineup.
It’s one thing to play for the three-run homer if you have men capable of hitting one. The Braves, alas, are 10th among 16 National League clubs in home runs. Brian McCann leads the Braves with 18 but wouldn’t lead 13 other NL teams. Were he a Phil, he’d be tied for fifth.
Loading ...If you can’t hit the ball over yonder wall, you must find alternatives. The Braves are fourth in the league in hits, which tells us they’ve gotten men aboard, but are next-to-last in stolen bases and fourth-worst at grounding into double plays. You should be able to do more with singles than they’ve done.
I’ve long resisted the notion that the Braves don’t play with passion. (This is baseball, where passion fizzles by Memorial Day and precision trumps all.) That said, this team wasted too many expertly pitched games against bad teams. (Case study: The Braves yielded a total of 10 runs over 30 innings to sub-.500 Cincinnati and just got swept.)
No, this suddenly lost season wasn’t all the manager’s doing. Seasons never are. A manager can’t hit and pitch for his men. But he can put those men in better position to succeed. Even great players have off-years. We’ve just seen a great manager have his.
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372 comments Add your comment
braves70
September 8th, 2009
11:01 am
Braves fans or Florida State fans? Which will have to wait longer to be rid of their Bobby? Each man apparently wants one more shot at a championship. I think we will be waiting for eternity for that to ever happen. What is really sad is when one man lets his own vanity and pride stand in the way of the good of the team and its fans. These Bobbys are like Captain Ahab, obsessed with chasing that great white whale one more time. That is a boat that no true fan deserves to be sentenced to ride for eternity. Retirement is not that bad. We all do it at some point if we live long enough.
Wes
September 8th, 2009
11:01 am
Is Bobby the best ever? No. Is he awful? Certainly not. But, Mark Bradley, when someone asks you why Cox is the best ever and the only answer you have is that he won 14 straight DIVISION titles….you have a pretty weak argument. Not to mention that for most of that time, the NL East was a complete joke from 2nd to 5th every single year.
Bobby led a team that won the crappiest division in baseball, so that makes him great??? Please. Winning the division with the talent handed to him in ‘06, ‘07 or ‘08 would have made him great. Winning bad divisions with the best talent in the league and the best pitching staff ever, hardly even puts anyone in the conversation of best ever without some championships.
Ralph
September 8th, 2009
11:02 am
I don’t think Cox had an off year, I think he had a normal year for Bobby Cox.
envoybass
September 8th, 2009
11:03 am
A bad year?? How about a bad career!!! Although I don’t have all the stats in front of me, I know this:
1. Cox has lost 8 straight world series games.
2. The last several years the Braves made the playoffs, they were outed on their own field in a crucial 5th game.
3. He is the most thrown out manager in the history of baseball
4. He has one of the visually foulest mouths I have seen and easily visible to all children on TV. His famous JFC utterance whenever something goes wrong.
5. Is stubborn beyond belief with certain underperforming players – keeping them in the same position and batting spot game after game. (Andruw, Francoer, K. Johnson, Jordan Schaefer,……..)
6. The most recent is bringing a tires and ineffective Kris Medlin in 3 days in a row to get bombed and lose games.
7. Then the ultimate is stubbornly parading Greg Norton to the plate in so many crucial situations expecting him to change his .140 batting average
8. For any Braves fan, I don’t even have to regurgitate his futility in the 90’s with superb talent and one championship.
Cox has always been a stubborn, head-scratching to fans manager who has been historically unbelieveable ineffective in most all big games. This season has proved no different. The Braves will NOT sniff another World Series and probably not another post-season with BC. HE HAS TO GO NOW!
bugman
September 8th, 2009
11:06 am
BugKiller, couldn’t agree with you more. Cox has blown more opportunities than Linda Lovelace. He has mismanaged post season play repeatedly and should have been shown the door years ago.
Doug
September 8th, 2009
11:07 am
Save for fighting with umpires and getting thrown out of games, and save for patting players on the back in the face of their failures, Bobby Cox hasn’t had fire in his eyes for a long time.
The players have flat affects only getting excited when good things happen. There is no awareness or willingness to generate excitement to make good things happen. Talent alone doesn’t win baseball games or any sporting event. Those that know how to play the mental game give themselves a better chance. The best illustration of this is Chipper Jones. Here is a player who won the batting title last year. Suddenly, he can’t hit, he is clearly discouraged. The mental part has slipped away from him. With age, we would expect some decline in his hitting abilities, but almost .100 points?
Bobby Cox is riding his baseball knowledge and reputation. He no longer has a clue or the inclination about how to help his players play at their best levels on a regular basis. As a fan I would prefer that he regain that ability over being fired. However, he hasn’t demonstrated a willingness to step back into the mental game.
Mark, I understand that Bobby Cox wouldn’t be seeing your article as he apparently doesn’t read the sporting news. I don’t really blame him. We who don’t play are pretty good critics. Still, Bobby Cox has lost the fire.
BugKiller
September 8th, 2009
11:08 am
Mark,
Dude, come on. To compare Cox to Martin or Herzog or whomever is intellectually dishonest.
Did they have teams that went to the playoffs 14 times in a row? What’s that, they didn’t?
Also, you continue to give credit to Cox for the 14 straight titles when the proof is out there that he had less to do with those regular season records than his talented team did.
AGAIN. In the regular season, the TALENT of a team will win out and cover for a terrible manager because of the 162-game schedule.
The postseason reveals who the good, bad, and overrated managers are.
14 times the Braves entered October.
6 times they had the best team in baseball, 12 times they had the best team in the NL.
3 times they lost to a better team.
1 time they beat the better team.
10 times they lost to a WORSE team.
That’s inexcusable, Mark. Good managers make their teams BETTER. Good managers would have managed to win at LEAST 3 or 4 World Series out of those 14 chances.
The Braves won in 1995 due to luck and guile. Time and time again, Bobby Cox destroyed any chance his team had due to:
Placing too much emphasis in what happened in the regular season instead of what happened in postseason history (never starting the greatest postseason pitcher in baseball history, Smoltz, in any of those game 1’s, except for 1996).
Leaving his hot bats on the bench because they didn’t belong to his trusted “vets.”
Leaving his starting pitchers in one pitch, or one inning too long.
Making terrible decisions with his bullpen, like removing Mike Beilecki who was killing the Yankees, and bringing in Wohlers an inning early. If Cox doesn’t over-manage and bring Wohlers in when he wasn’t needed, then Wohlers doesn’t hang a pitch for Leyritz to crush.
Making inexplicable line-up choices, such as going with defensive guys when offense was needed.
His idiotic “platoons.” His years in San Diego PROVED that Ryan Klesko could more than hit left handers, and would have been a MUCH better hitter than any of the light-hitting platoon replacements for him that Cox would run out there. Cox basically took half a career away from Ryan Klesko.
I mean, the list goes on and on.
What I said before, about how good managers make their teams better?
Explain to me where Cox has done that the last four years when he hasn’t had as talented a team as he used to have.
The last four years are conclusive PROOF that Cox had NOTHING to do with those 14 ridiculous flags in left field (you should ONLY have flags for WS wins or possibly NL crowns).
Sorry, Mark. Logic says that Cox is the most overrated manager in baseball history.
Jeff
September 8th, 2009
11:19 am
Cox has stunk since he got here. He is a clueless old man. We need a young vibrant manager who will play the young kids and get rid of the old tired guys like Anderson.
Greg Norton
September 8th, 2009
11:23 am
Hey, Mark, that huntin’ invitation is off the table, you traitor!
Ralph
September 8th, 2009
11:24 am
I can’t agree with anyone who advocates moving Cox upstairs, just imagine someone as stupid as he is pulling strings from up above.
jfreak13713
September 8th, 2009
11:25 am
There weren’t many reasonable people out there at the start of the season that belived this team had a chance at a World Series, but most thought they could contend and be player in the playoff hunt. The Braves as an entire organization wasted a fantastic year of pitching. Cox has always made crazy decisions but this year his players didn’t come through when he made some “stupid” moves. I don’t blame Bobby totally for this years fall from contention but you can’t fire the team which leaves Bobby the odd man out. It’s time for Wren to make what would be a very hard decision to promote Cox to the front office and allow a manager from outside the organization to bring in some fresh ideas. Just time for change!
jc
September 8th, 2009
11:27 am
I COULDN’T AGREE MORE WITH WHAT BUG-KILLER SAID REGARDING BOBBY COX AND HIS SHORTCOMINGS AS THE BRAVES’ MANAGER ALL THESE YEARS..SERIOUSLY, WHO COULDN’T HAVE GUIDED THE BRAVES TO 14 STRAIGHT DIVISION TITLES WITH ALL THOSE FUTURE ALL OF FAME PITCHERS AND A TALENTED BATTING LINE-UP?? I’M REALLY NOT IMPRESSED WITH THAT NOR THE 13 TIMES COX’S TEAMS “CHOKED” IN THE POST SEASON!! AND I LOVE WHAT “BUG-KILLER” HAD TO SAY REGARDING HOW JOE TORRE WOULD HAVE MANAGED THE BRAVES’ TEAMS ALL THESE YEARS..THEY WOULD HAVE WON AT LEAST 5 WORLD SERIES, IF NOT MORE, HAD TORRE BEEN THEIR MANAGER..LOOK HOW TORRE MANAGED ANDRUW JONES LAST SEASON IN LOS ANGELES!! BENCHED HIS “WASHED-UP BUTT”-LIKE BOBBY SHOULD HAVE DONE THE YEAR BEFORE..COX HAS WAY TOO MUCH FAITH WITH HIS PLAYERS AND HIS DISALLUSIONED WITH THEM-THINKING THEY ARE BETTER THAN THEY ARE..THIS YEAR’S TEAM DOES HAVE TALENT, THEY JUST HAVE NO LEADERSHIP AND NO CONFIDENCE IN THEMSELVES-AND THAT ALL STARTS AT THE TOP WITH BOBBY COX..CHIPPER JONES IS SUPPOSED TO BE THEIR LEADER BUT HE’S TOO WORRRIED ABOUT WHEN HE’LL BE ABLE TO MISS ANOTHER START TO CARE..HE’S WASHED-UP TOO!! BRAVES WILL CONTINUE TO STRUGGLE AS LONG AS COX CONTINUES TO BE THEIR MANAGER..LOOK AT WHAT COLORADO DID THIS YEAR-MID-SEASON!! FIRED CLINT HURDLE AND BROUGHT IN JIM TRACY..LOOK WHAT’S HAPPENED!! ROCKIES ARE HEADING FOR THE PLAYOFFS..BRAVES ARE HEADING FOR YET ANOTHER LONG WINTER AT HOME..LOOK WHAT JOE TORRE HAS DONE WITH THE DODGERS-WHO REALLY DON’T HAVE MUCH MORE TALENT THAN THE BRAVES RIGHT NOW-A VERY YOUNG TEAM-BUT THEY HAVE THE BEST MANAGER IN BASEBALL WHO IS STEERING THEM IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION!!
tmac
September 8th, 2009
11:28 am
Where to begin on Bobby Cox…
I am not one who has bashed BC at every turn. I am also not a blind loyalist to BC and think he has no flaws.
Bobby Cox has been a very good (not great) regular season manager over the years. Well below average post season manager though.
And the last 4 years the Braves have needed a very good post season or in this case “do or die” manager (same thing) to help them get to the post season. Bobby Cox is not that manager… and even more so this year.
BC took his “loyalty” to his player to a whole new level this year. He stayed with Jeff Francouer way to long and Greg Norton in crutial situations over and over I will never understand. Both situations hurt this team and both were decisions directly from the manager.
I do agree that this lineup does not have power and when that is the case the team must be creative and opportunistic to score runs. Both are not high on BC’s list of attributes.
I know that Bobby Cox has earned the right to step down when he wants to. And lord knows the media is not going to hold Bobby’s feet to the fire on that either. But, Bobby is never held accountable for anything he does or decisions he makes… so why would he feel obligated to “do the right thing” and step down. Players love playing for Bobby Cox because it is a Country Club atmosphere in the clubhouse. When there is no urgency from the manager to the players to perform, there is no urgency from the players to the field to perform either.
That is where this team is, unfortunately.
Today’s players are in the game for the money and most are not driven by winning championships. BC works well for the older players that are self motivated players driven to be the best and win championships. If the Braves are going to contend and win championships again, they need to have a manager who can create a winning atmosphere and continually give his team the best chance to win on a nightly basis.
Sorry, but that is not Bobby Cox.
BugKiller
September 8th, 2009
11:28 am
Mark,
Dude, come on. To compare Cox to Martin or Herzog or whomever is intellectually dishonest.
Did they have teams that went to the playoffs 14 times in a row? What’s that, they didn’t?
Also, you continue to give credit to Cox for the 14 straight titles when the proof is out there that he had less to do with those regular season records than his talented team did.
AGAIN. In the regular season, the TALENT of a team will win out and cover for a terrible manager because of the 162-game schedule.
The postseason reveals who the good, bad, and overrated managers are.
14 times the Braves entered October.
6 times they had the best team in baseball, 12 times they had the best team in the NL.
3 times they lost to a better team.
1 time they beat the better team.
10 times they lost to a WORSE team.
That’s inexcusable, Mark. Good managers make their teams BETTER. Good managers would have managed to win at LEAST 3 or 4 World Series out of those 14 chances.
The Braves won in 1995 due to luck and guile. Time and time again, Bobby Cox destroyed any chance his team had due to:
Placing too much emphasis in what happened in the regular season instead of what happened in postseason history (never starting the greatest postseason pitcher in baseball history, Smoltz, in any of those game 1’s, except for 1996).
Leaving his hot bats on the bench because they didn’t belong to his trusted “vets.”
Leaving his starting pitchers in one pitch, or one inning too long.
Making terrible decisions with his bullpen, like removing Mike Beilecki who was killing the Yankees, and bringing in Wohlers an inning early. If Cox doesn’t over-manage and bring Wohlers in when he wasn’t needed, then Wohlers doesn’t hang a pitch for Leyritz to crush.
Making inexplicable line-up choices, such as going with defensive guys when offense was needed.
His idiotic “platoons.” His years in San Diego PROVED that Ryan Klesko could more than hit left handers, and would have been a MUCH better hitter than any of the light-hitting platoon replacements for him that Cox would run out there. Cox basically took half a career away from Ryan Klesko.
I mean, the list goes on and on.
What I said before, about how good managers make their teams better?
Explain to me where Cox has done that the last four years when he hasn’t had as talented a team as he used to have.
The last four years are conclusive PROOF that Cox had NOTHING to do with those 14 ridiculous flags in left field (you should ONLY have flags for WS wins or possibly NL crowns).
Sorry, Mark. Logic says that Cox is the most overrated manager in baseball history
JMc12203
September 8th, 2009
11:29 am
Thank You Mark for finally cleaning your glasses. Bobby WAS a good manager last century, but… How many playoff series have the Braves won this CENTURY? Answer – NONE!!! The old GM gave Bobby plenty of talent to work with, yet he could not get the job done. I have been saying for the past 3 or 4 years now that BOBBY HAS GOT TO GO. Many managers could have done as good or most years BETTER than Bobby has done. You look at him on the bench, and he looks like an old, tired man waiting on retirement. If the Braves are to be relevent again in their division, BOBBY HAS GOT TO GO!!! Then, Chipper, who has admitted to being tired, needs to go right behind him. He did not need to admit what his lack of effort has shown over the past month. The Braves need to clean house the way they did almost 20 years ago. But, bottom line, if Bobby manages next year, the Braves will be no better than a 3d or 4th place team. The Brave dynasty, such as it was, ended almost 10 years ago, but no one wants to admit it.
jc
September 8th, 2009
11:33 am
THANK’S FOR POSTING THIS BLOG, MARK..GREAT JOB!!!IT’S ABOUT TIME YOU ALLOWED US TO SPEAK OUT ON THE “REVERED” BOBBY COX!!!!
NABOR39
September 8th, 2009
11:36 am
WILL BOBBY BE REPLACED????
Mark Bradley
September 8th, 2009
11:37 am
I said it back in June: I would never fire Bobby Cox. But if I were hiring a manager for the 2010 Atlanta Braves, I’m not sure I’d hire him.
SOCAL MOM
September 8th, 2009
11:37 am
Let’s hope that now Bobby has hit a couple of his milestones this year, he will look at retiring. He already hit his 2,000 win with the Braves. Three more wins and he will have 2400 wins in his coaching career. Maybe once he hits that one, and at the end of this year he loooks back and says, “Let me go out while can with good numbers adn the respect of most of the fans” The fans that don;’t respect him now will if he takes his leave. It would be a long time before he can get to the next level of those milestones. He is tired and needs to sit back and let someone else move this team forward.
Joseph
September 8th, 2009
11:42 am
I have watched game after game as Bobby left the starter in too long and I correctly predicted trouble time and time again. I also saw when Bobby would go for some relievers in situations that we knew would create trouble. All of this has been an issue because we didn’t have the homerun capability to back anything up…..
Marty 0416
September 8th, 2009
11:42 am
I agree with you Mark. Bobby has had a bad year. Great players make a good manager look great. Good players make you have to manage. Bobby has proven he can’t manage good players, only great ones.
For what it’s worth. Braves record against the 6 worst teams in the NL:27-25. The Phillies are 38-14 against those same teams. How far out of first are we? Do the math. This trend started in ‘06. We play down or up to the opponent.
Freddie G
September 8th, 2009
11:45 am
It is so refreshing to see so many on this blog, finally saying what I have been saying years ago, and that is that Bobby Cox was not a very good manager, for all the reasons cited. But I came to realize that in this town we settle for mediocrity especially if that person did well ten years previously. I was thinking over the weekend that the only two teams in all of Georgia, College and Pros, that seem to hold their coaches to a high standard are the Falcons under Blank and GT. People here seem to fall in love with a Coach or Manager and then starts wearing the Rose Colored Glasses, where they can see no wrong in him. I gave up my Falcons Season Tickets when the Smith’s owned the team, because they did not seem to care about winning; I only got them back after Blank purchased the team. I have cut back significantly on going to Braves games and will continue to do so as long as Cox is the Manager. It does not matter who we sign he will not give us a good chance to win. The same goes for my beloved Dawgs, unless Coach Richt improves the coaching staff the Dawgs will fall back to the level of the Goff and Donnan teams. I have no cofidence in Bobo and Martinez.
Ed
September 8th, 2009
11:46 am
November 2010, Bobby steps down. Frank Wren hires Brian Snitker as his next Braves manager. You heard it here first.
Big B CH 99
September 8th, 2009
11:47 am
I agree that Bobby hasn’t odne a great job this yr, when like this yr, U don’t have a lineup that’s gonna hit a lot of HR’s U have to play small ball, & STEAL bases, something that Bobby never does. The other problem is the obvious one, keeping Greg Norton on the team, more than less using him in key pinch hit situations, when the guy’s been terrible all yr. The other problem is he hasn’t done a good job managing the bullpen, U can’t use both Moylan, Soriano & Gonzo 3 & 4 nights in a row. U need to give them all a few nights off. When u have 2 closers, let them alternate, so that U always have at least 1 of them available every night.
Wait till next year
September 8th, 2009
11:47 am
Someone said about Bear Bryant, “He can take hisn and beat yourn, and can take yourn and beat hisn.” Bobby is no Bear.
Mitchell
September 8th, 2009
11:50 am
And he should be fired because of it.
I honestly think Braves bloggers collectively could have managed this team better than Bobby Cox has this year.
They could just have a video screen in the dugout and when we need to bring in a reliever or a guy to come up off the bench in a pinch hit situation we could do a quick vote and go from there.
Sure, we don’t always agree with one another but we tend to disagree with Bobby Cox in a rather unified manner.
I mean, who among us did not know that Kris Medlen was going to blow the last game of the Marlins’ series when Bobby brought him in the 6th? Nobody. Everybody. An alien who had only seen three baseball games in their alien life and the three games were the preceeding ones in the series could have understood that Medlen was not going to get the job done.
If the Braves really care about winning and not just winning the division or the wild card but about putting together a team that can win the World Series and isn’t going to act like the playoffs are a “crap shoot” and whatever happens happens, they need to remove Bobby Cox from his position as manager.
cvbraves
September 8th, 2009
11:53 am
Never thought I’d see Bradley capitulate to the Bobby bashers…guess Mark needed some love.
Bobby was and is still a great manager, but he can’t pitch and hit. Put the blame this year where it belongs, the offense. Bobby did the best anyone could, players just didn’t do their jobs.
Phil
September 8th, 2009
11:57 am
cvbraves,
Norton can’t hit but that idiot Cox keeps putting him in there in crucial situations. Norton can’t hit, Cox can’t manage.
bfred
September 8th, 2009
11:58 am
Go read Torre’s “The Yankee Years” and see what he expected from his players. The man was short on sentimentality, but I bet the vast majority of his players preferred the championships they won to being their manager’s best friend.
Cox has seen too many Hollywood sports movies where the player digs deep and gets that key hit, basket or touchdown. In reality, Norton just strikes out.
GaCracker
September 8th, 2009
11:59 am
When Leo left as pitching coach, Bobby became a CARDBOARD manager. Like Casey Stengel, he’s over the hill. I always thought he was overrated – so many divisions and only ONE championship. When he needs to manufacture runs, he just can’t do it. Look at all the L.O.B.’s this year. How can he keep a roster spot for Norton? Joe Torre he isn’t. Maybe he treats his players well, but managing is about winning, not being liked by your players. Please retire at season’s end Bobby and take Snitaker (hold the runner on third and leave him stranded) with you!!!
GK Chesterfield
September 8th, 2009
12:00 pm
Mark,
This has been one of your few blogs where the readers made more sense than you. If I were a judge listening to the case, I would have to rule in favor of Bug Killer for his much stronger reasoning. Sorry.
You’ve heard of: “you had me at hello?” Well, you lost me at “Bobby Cox, greatest manager ever.”
Wellman's the man
September 8th, 2009
12:01 pm
Bobby was one of the greatest ever, no doubt. He built the franchise as GM and then he took ‘em to the playoffs as manager. That said, he has absolutely destroyed the bullpen, and this is not the first year. His loyalty has always gotten him in trouble, and this year it has essentially killed any chance of what should have been a playoff team. Early in the year we fell further and further behind as KJ continued to start, giving us an automatic out in the lineup. Ditto Frenchy, another automatic out. Ditto Shafer, another automatic out. Combine that with the normal automatic out from the pitcher spot, that’s four out of nine players. Later in the year, when Prado finally got to play ONLY after KJ was injured, we started to make a move. Now we have seen that usurped by the falling apart of the bullpen, which was predictable considering the ‘one inning per reliever’ rule that Bobby has long employed. So, like every other year in the last several, August starts to close and the bullpen’s effectiveness starts to wane, the guys are simply worn out.
As an aside, would Wellman’s ‘hand grenade’ rant play well at the Ted?
BugKiller
September 8th, 2009
12:06 pm
sorry for the double post.
amicusterrae
September 8th, 2009
12:06 pm
Disagree about lineup creativity. Cox has been shuffling it a lot, particularly earlier in the season.
Agree about bullpen overuse. It’s amazing Moylan hasn’t fizzled yet.
Disagree about underperforming. Derek Lowe is not an ace. Javy Vasquez is pitching like a #2 this year, which is great, but above average for his career. J.J. is still learning. K.K. is never going to pitch 7 innings on a consistent basis. Hanson has great stuff, but he needs to become more efficient. The rotation is good, but it is not excellent. Especially when you consider they rearely go into the last third of the game. Too many 5 and 6 inning outings have hurt the ‘pen.
Bobby’s quick trigger this year is indicative of his lack of confidence in the offense.
Speaking of which, our lineup is just not very good. It’s been feast or famine all year. Apart from the run when almost everyone was hitting, it’s been a famine. Too many simultaneous slumps. Sure they can all get hot and beat Cliff Lee now and then, but those performances are overshadowed by pitiful games against rookie and journeyman pitchers. Prado’s headaches, and Chrcuh and McLouth’s injuries killed our momentum. Not to mention that Chipper has almost totally disappeared.
Ted Striker
September 8th, 2009
12:06 pm
Since the 90’s baseball teams have been as likely to implode in the locker room as they have been to fail on the field. Bobby Cox is the greatest manager of a team — 24/7 — than any other manager ever. And that includes this year.
Ebenezer Snerdberg
September 8th, 2009
12:09 pm
Nobody has screamed.”FIRE BOBBY COX”, more for these umpteen years than me. The truth be known,he WILL be back next year. He won’t get gone until his Nibs decides to. Truth be known,he thinks he’s the best. He believes the local media. He thinks he’s always right. He thinks he’s the only one that knows how to manage! In short,he’s become a ‘Legend In His Own Mind!’ I think his knees wasn’t the ONLY thing he blew out!
But,Bradley,an AL bench coach in Mills? And, I don’t think you’d get Oquendo away from the Cards(I think he’s still there).
Oh,and bvillebaron: Cox din’ get shut of that egotistical SOB,Marquis,Leo did!
FIRE BOBBY COX!
London Calling
September 8th, 2009
12:13 pm
Ah well, you’ve brought out the Cox haters here, with their 20-20 hindsight and total lack of understanding.
And as for all that “14 playoffs and 1 championship” garbage – do the math. 3 seasons when there were 4 playoff teams + 11 seasons when there were 8 = 100 playoff teams. The Braves were 14 of those teams. That equates to slightly less than 2 championships on average. If we had one TWO championships (that’s one less hanging slider, or one less base running blunder) then we would have won MORE than average.
But go ahead, blame it all on Cox. You were going to anyway.
bravesfannj
September 8th, 2009
12:15 pm
Truly said by bugkiller, Time to move on. I live in New Jersey and have watched the Braves for over 30 years and took my lumps at Shea stadium many a time cheering on the Braves in a hostile enviroment. I long to see the passion with the Braves like the Phillies fans have. I miss the fire that is portrayed and love for Derek Jeter that the Yankees fans have (are you listening chipper?) This team needs a real shakeup not centered around bobby & chipper. Long overdue… Please for the sake of the real fanbase let’s get some real change in Atlanta. The Falcons are getting better, the Hawks have gotten better..Go Braves… Look deep & hard and have desire….Get a manager that will defend his home turf and field like Phillies fans & yankkees fans do…Bye, Bye Bobby, go out with class and watch and cheer from home like a lot of us do. You cannot take this team any further. If you love the Braves Pleas leave!
Freddie G
September 8th, 2009
12:15 pm
The Braves will not end up out of the playoffs only because of Bobby. He is one of the reason, but let us not overlook Chipper’s performance. I agree that Bobby should have moved him from the 3 hole and give him a chance to regain his confidence, just like Charlie Manuel did with his stars in the Phillies lineup. I would also like to see BMac moved out of the cleanup spot, as I believe his numbers declined when he moved to the cleanup hole. Another reason we will not make the playoffs is the poor hitting in the first half, despite stellar pitching from the starters. The third reason was the Bullpen, and I know some folks say the 3-4 pitchers used were overworked, but they were not overworked in the third game of the season when they blew a 9 -3 lead in Philadelphia, and several others during the season. I agree with folks who say McLouth is not suitable for leadoff, and I am not sure he is top tier Centerfielder, leftfield seems more suitable for his skill level. It will be an interesting offseason for FW.
Born2Buzz
September 8th, 2009
12:16 pm
Bobby Cox and Bobby Bowden, what’s the similarity other than first name?
Both are HOF coaches that are at the end of the run. It never ends with that one last championship when you hang around too long, it just gets sad to watch them look old and not really perform.
They should have both retired 2 years ago.
Sidslid
September 8th, 2009
12:19 pm
Braves have always undervalued the closer role as they have never but their wallet into that position. If we had a go to closer, Soriano, Gonzalez and Moylan could rotate at set up and not burn as much innings. In 91, they went out and got Alejandro Pena. It won us the pennant (remember the classic Steve Avery huddled under a poncho while Pena struck out Andy Van Slyke). The next year, we are stuck with Jeff Reardon who gives up the first of many pivotal post-season homers. In 95 and yes even 96, Wohlers was dominant. We were the best team in baseball both of those years save one errant pitch call. And then Smoltz shut em down at the beginning of this decade when the starters began to fade a bit.
Skeezix
September 8th, 2009
12:30 pm
I am a big Bobby Cox fan but I have been concerned about a lack of passion and the lack of fundamentals (still can’t bunt and unexplainable mental errors) we seen over the last two years. The continued use of Norton seems stubborn. I don’t fault Bobby for the lack of punch in the line up—-that goes to Wren. Wren has made three moves, but McLouth and Church half missed a tons of games with injuries. LaRoche is the only one who has produced. Then you have Chipper going into his career slump just at the time when the team needed him to step up.
BravesfaninWis
September 8th, 2009
12:30 pm
Bobby Cox should take a exit for good. He has been one of the best managers in baseball history, but he has clearly run his course.. He makes terrible decisions when games are on the line and its getting to the point of being unacceptable..
I for one rate this season for Bobby Cox as a failure.. He hasn’t gotten the Braves to the playoffs in 4 straight years now and that is reason enough for termination.. This Braves team has no passion under Bobby Cox.. The only passion that Cox shows is getting ejected from ball games.. If he put that much into stealing bases, bunting, and doing the little things to win games this year, we could be talking about either the division title, or at the very least the wild card spot.. The fact of the matter is that Bobby Cox has failed for 4 straight years now, and he needs to go.. I have said before, I will not support the Braves by any means until this team makes some serious changes.. If they were to not do that for a few more seasons, then it looks like I will take a few seasons off from watching the Braves play ball.. I have no ears in supporting them when they don’t perform for their fans.. This team needs a change, and we Braves fans deserve better then this..
The Real Don Steele
September 8th, 2009
12:34 pm
Bobby Cox manages exactly like Earl Weaver managed the Orioles. Pitching; defense; and the three-run home run. Once he didn’t have the bombers to hit the three-run homer, he was lost. No hit and run; no base stealing; no working the count to increase walks and to enhance hit opportunities. He should have moved Chipper down in the batting order weeks ago. Into the six or seven hole. Keeping him at third killed this teams chances. He has become an automatic out. Too bad, too bad, too bad.
BravesfaninWis
September 8th, 2009
12:34 pm
If Cox doesn’t step down on his own after this season, then he should be forced to.. You can’t keep wasting season after season because you are afraid to fire your manager.. Cox doesn’t have it anymore, and if he can’t see that himself then he is blind.. Time to spend the money elsewhere, and hopefully get a manager in here with passion and the will to win..
Waylen
September 8th, 2009
12:40 pm
I was so angry the other night when he put Medlin in for his 3rd straight multi-inning game that I cursed out loud. And I was watching it on TV! Kawakami should not have been put in the bullpen. They should have went to a 6 man rotation. Bobby has juggled the lineup well recently but the team wide hitting slump killed them If they hadn’t list 5 straight and could have somehow managed to pull those out then they would be like 2 games back! They could have win all of those games. Lackluster fielding… uninspired hitting… too many nagging injures… I guess we can only look forward to 2010 at this point…
Huddy's Ligament
September 8th, 2009
12:40 pm
It is agreed that Cox has not had the talent of the halcyon days in these last few years of non-playoff baseball for the Bravos.
Somehow, we got lucky in ‘05 with the infusion of “Baby Braves” and you have to tip the hat to him for that feat.
But it seems to me that Cox does not recognize levels of talent – i.e. it seems like he just plugs guys in regardless of their skill set, so to me, it seems like a corporate mentality, i.e. -”this guy is a Major Leaguer, so he should be able to bunt” regardless of whether said ballplayer is actually good at bunting or not. He doesn’t seem to play to players’ strengths or weaknesses and can’t seem to recognize when someone is off (everyone has off days) – like when it was obvious to everyone that Medlen had nothing after 3 consecutive days. Or leaving Lowe in to get shelled?
So, I’d have to say that is bad managing; not knowing your personnel’s strengths and weaknesses.
Marvin Mangrum
September 8th, 2009
12:41 pm
Bobby Cox is one of the worst managers ever. For management to keep bringing him back is insane. One World Series win, one. Casey Stengel manmaged 12 years, 10 world series, 5 wins. 10-5, fired cause he couldnt win. I quit going, they are on paper kinda good, but paper doesnt breathe. Theres no plan for Chipper at first, none. The number one pinch hitter is cant hit it out of the infield Greg Norton. Why is he even on the team?They have no plan! And, just say they made the playoffs Cox would play all the backups every other day, its insane! I have been saying hes bad for years, I dont get it, never will. The players win, the manager, generally loses. Braves are where they are cause they deserve it. MGM
dross
September 8th, 2009
12:41 pm
An acquaintance from NY summed it up. A manager who has won 15 division titles and had all the talent the Braves have had and only wins 1 world series has not done his job.
Ebenezer Snerdberg
September 8th, 2009
12:46 pm
London:
All ancient history. You’re only as good as your last year,ergo,he’s made a polecat smell like a rose for 4-5 years!