Hot Button: Is UGA’s Martinez a good defensive coordinator?
He's no Kevin Ramsey, but really, who is? (AJC photo by Brant Sanderlin)
The answer to the above question depends on definition. If by “good” we mean, “Way better than Kevin Ramsey,” the answer is yes. If by “good” we mean “one of the finest defensive coordinators in the nation,” the answer is no.
Willie Martinez suffers most by immediate comparison to his predecessor. In 52 games under Brian VanGorder, Georgia yielded 30-plus points only in the 2003 SEC championship game against an LSU team that would win the BCS title. In 52 games under Martinez, Georgia has yielded 30-plus points 11 times.
The average score of a Georgia loss in four seasons under VanGorder was 21-12. Not once in any of the 10 losses with BVG as DC did the Bulldogs score 20 points themselves, meaning those defeats were more related to offensive failings. Now look:
The average score of a Georgia loss in four seasons under Martinez has been 32-23. Five times in those 12 losses the Bulldogs have scored 30-plus points, which means the offense has been holding up its end.
The offense has waxed and waned under Mark Richt. (Last season the Bulldogs ranked 22nd nationally in total offense, their best showing since finishing 21st in 2001.) The defense has slipped. In four seasons under VanGorder, Georgia ranked among the nation’s top 10 in total defense twice and scoring defense three times. In four seasons under Martinez, the Bulldogs have ranked among the nation’s top 10 in those categories once apiece.
Over time, the yardage figures are almost congruent. Opponents averaged 305 yards per game against BVG’s D; they’ve averaged 302 against WM’s. What has changed is more problematic:
Georgia now has to score big to win, and that’s a tough way to travel. Forty-two points weren’t enough to beat Georgia Tech last season, and 41 wouldn’t have been enough to beat Alabama or 49 sufficient to unhorse Florida. And before we dismiss 2008 as a function of injuries and penalties and suchlike, let’s note the Bullogs lost 31-30 to Auburn and 38-35 to West Virginia in 2005 and 51-33 to Tennessee in 2006.
In two of the biggest victories of the post-VanGorder era, Georgia beat Florida 42-30 in 2007 and LSU 52-38 last season. The Bulldogs used to win because their defense served as a safety net. They now work without that net.
Loading ...Martinez’s defenders — not to be confused with the men who play his defense — say his units make key stops (against Kentucky and Auburn last season, for example) and that he plays the defense Richt wants played. But it’s tough to imagine any head coach prefers a defense that collapses periodically, and it’s difficult to argue that, given Georgia’s gaudy rankings every single Signing Day, this coordinator is working without talent.
The aforementioned Ramsey lasted one season (1999) as Jim Donnan’s defensive coordinator. His undoing was a 38-21 loss to an Auburn team that entered Sanford Stadium 4-5 but led 31-0 at the half. (Quarterback Ben Leard passed for 416 yards that bizarre night.) Bulldog fans take pride in both their stadium and their history of stalwart defense, and they filed out early on Nov. 13, 1999 believing that hadn’t ever seen and wouldn’t again see such a thing.
On Sept. 27, 2008, Alabama scored on five consecutive possessions against the nation’s No. 3 team. The halftime score in Athens was 31-0.
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353 comments Add your comment
TheItalianDawg
August 27th, 2009
9:53 pm
We should never trust WM, he cost us 2 national championships! he is very inconsistant, I really wonder how bad an assitant coach should be for CMR to let him go?
Work in New York
August 27th, 2009
10:00 pm
I believe this will be a watershed year for the defense, one way or another. If the UGA defense doesn’t return to where it used to be then changes will have to be made. I hope that last year was, just one of those years. We shall soon see. If OSU lites up the Dogs then it could be a long season, but I don’t think that will happen and just hope that the kickoffs improve and the penalties are held to a minimum.
Who Cares
August 27th, 2009
10:03 pm
Who cares!
Mark Bradley
August 27th, 2009
10:14 pm
Apparently the get-out-the-vote effort on CWM’s behalf is running a bit behind, if you go by our poll. Only eight percent view him as “above average.”
atl xmen
August 27th, 2009
10:18 pm
before dogging on CWM compare his last fours years to strong , chavis and muchamp…im pretty sure his defenses were ranked higher than the those three. mark let me know what you get..please..i would take CWM anyday over those three. what CWM had to work with the last few years with the young guys on the def line and in the def backs that were also young he has done wonders..i bet cwm worst year is not as bad as the three i mention worst year…mark B get back with us on the research..thanks
GreggJ
August 27th, 2009
10:23 pm
Please SOMEBODY WITH POWER get Martinez fired!!!!!! He is terrible -He is NOT a junkyard dawg!!! I cant help it if he and Richts wife are great friends!
southgadawg88
August 27th, 2009
10:24 pm
I predict there will be more complaints about Bobo in 09 than Martinez.
hop
August 27th, 2009
10:41 pm
georgia was hard hit with many losses on defensive line and linebacker and the offensive turnovers cost georgia in their losses.
2009 will be a better judge if the defense under wiilie is a top defense in the sec and country.
if the result is the same as 2008, i think richt will make the call and willie will be gone!
SavannahDawg
August 27th, 2009
10:50 pm
I’ve gone back and watched a number of the games from last season. Willie’s defense was put in terrible positions in key games. NFL talent put up some incredible numbers on offense but if disciplined could have blown people ie: 2nd half int’s vs Tenn, GT, FLA for 6.
If the center of the defensive line is solid the backs aren’t exposed because the linebackers don’t have to plug the holes. If they don’t have to plug the holes they can cover the flats as well. Our problems didn’t exist in 07′ – occasional lapses but I’m not sure if that is a result of coaching 18 – 22 yr olds. Give him this year with NFL talent, a disciplined offense that will give the D plenty of rest and a team mentality. We’ll find out a lot about Willie the next couple of weeks. I believe in Richt and trust his judgement. Count the Ten Win Seasons. LSU got their most recent title because we were politiced out of the game. Florida benefited from the split into East and West divisions and the demise of their in-state rivals. We kept Auburn a traditional power and Tech. We play an additional out of conference challenger…this year two that FLA doesn’t.
Call me crazy but I’ll take our Tony Gwynn program any day. We have an above average program that will knock on the door. We were close with Greene and in 07. It is just a matter of time. Trust Richt.
UGA Grad '08
August 27th, 2009
11:01 pm
Like i said earlier, can anyone dig up average yards given up per play under BVG versus WM? I think it would be a telling statistic.
Bradley has done his research but i still don’t feel like you can rely ONLY on scoring and total defense a game to gauge a defense. For instance, If your defense had to start at their own 10 yard line every play and the other team takes three downs and scores a TD everytime you’d look really good as far as total defense and awful as far as scoring defense. It’s an exagerration but it shows why you can’t go soley on those two stats.
45ACP
August 27th, 2009
11:10 pm
Some of you want to fire Coach Martinez. Then what? Think about it.
All this talk of running him out of town on a rail is ludicrous.
If you are going to call for his head at least provide a solution.
Defensive Coordinators don’t grow on trees.
Lets here some names people…..You know who you are.
Hale
August 28th, 2009
12:02 am
should be fired …… enough is enough !!!
JG2009
August 28th, 2009
12:12 am
To all:
I’m not sure what our season holds, but I’m not as confident this year as I have been in the past. Starting with OSU, is our defense any better than last year? With a monster killer like Curran on the D, is it enough to overcome Martinez’s shortcomings? If our season starts to decline as Auburn did last year (ours will be b/c of our defense), Richt needs to fire CWM during the season instead of waiting until the end of the season. I don’t think CWM knows how to teach fundamentals or motivation. I hope that I am wrong. Does anyone else feel my pain?
hugedawgfan
August 28th, 2009
12:21 am
that’s BS saying he’s running a defense CMR wants-if that is the case, then there is no need for a DC and just go ahead and eliminate the position and let CMR run it like he did the offense before–as a matter of fact, get rid of Martinez and Fabrais and pay the defensive Coordinator at TCU(or it may be their HC but it would be a step up for both us and him). Get someone else. Who else do you point the finger at if the D collapses again? If it does and no action is taken, then you must start the hot seat for CMR. I realize what I just typed, but no way are we not competing for the SEC and BCS with the classes we are signing. This is not rocket science-we have the talent, we need the personnel to match–HELL we need that fire back.
hugedawgfan
August 28th, 2009
12:25 am
want names—Bud foster at Vtech would be a good fit–like I said, TCU’s def coord would be good–why did we let Chavis get over to Baton Rouge? UT’s problems were on offense, not defense–I think there are plenty of better DC’s out there–go and pay them, we have the money!!!
Cheese
August 28th, 2009
1:34 am
Everyone has got to be kidding me!!! The defense coordinator is fine! The players are the problem…Just because you come in being a four/five star out of high school doesn’t mean crap once your in college. You stop bullying boys and get your ass kicked by men. Welcome to the real world…I mean look at any Ohio St. for all their GREAT defensive players they couldn’t do crap against Texas or USC. The point is a lot of good players don’t make a great defense, you gotta have the Brandon Spikes, or Ray Lewis, the enforcer that is way and above one of the most dominant players in the country and UGALY don’t got it
IveyLeaguer
August 28th, 2009
1:52 am
Mark, outstanding comparisons.
I would like to see the YPP (yards per play) comparison, and how the YPP ranks nationally each year for each DC. That, when added to what you already have, will tell a lot about what’s going on.
Thanks.
chemdawg
August 28th, 2009
2:33 am
I won’t be swayed by your facts and statistics, Bradley.
jerry
August 28th, 2009
5:43 am
Was anyone else ever interviewed for DC when Willie was handed the job? And what were his credentials? A warm body? This was a Hail Mary by Richt that missed its mark.
jerry
August 28th, 2009
6:09 am
Yahoo! HotJobs Questions and Answers: Is it unprofessional to hire …That is opening a can of worms, it is very unprofessional to hire friends or family in business especially when the person is not qualitifed
AltamahaDawg
August 28th, 2009
7:15 am
What is this sudden love affair with Chavis? Reminds me of the Al Borges, Al Borges, Al Borges crowd we had in here a few years ago.
Charlotte Dawg 06'
August 28th, 2009
7:24 am
The numbers don’t lie. Any SEC team that scores over 30 points a game should win.
Dawg La
August 28th, 2009
7:31 am
Willie is weak, and these “oh we have a game this week” mishaps are proof.
I find it frustraiting that CMR did not take advantage of Kirby Smart(alabama) or Will Muschamp(Texas). Don”t you think they would have been a great fit a UGA, considering that is where they played.
Northern sympathizer
August 28th, 2009
7:41 am
The verdict is still out on Martinez. Surrender 40+ to OK State and the sharks will circle.
jason
August 28th, 2009
8:14 am
Over time, the yardage figures are almost congruent. Opponents averaged 305 yards per game against BVG’s D; they’ve averaged 302 against WM’s. What has changed is more problematic:
I find this interesting. The yardage given up is similar. I am not defending CWM, but Starting field position via poor KOs of kick coverage coupled with a starting field position via inopputuned turnovers explains some up the points given up rising. Teams are stating pout at the 40 yard line vs starting at the 20. Eveybody knows that a short field is not what a defense wants to defend. Last year poor KOs aded with the injuries and all the senseless penalities was the culprit in giving up so many points.
I also agree that CWM is slow in making in game adjustments, but to say that he can’t teach the fundementals of defense (tackling) is a stupid remark. If he can’t teach a player to tackle, how did he even become a position coach? A DC’s job is not to teach players how to tackle. It is the DC’s job to oversee the other defensive coaches and to game plame and make adjustments accordingly. CWM is more of a failure to make adjustments.
chazzo
August 28th, 2009
8:34 am
Somebody asked about Willie’s experience:
Coaching Experience:
1985-86, Miami (Grad. Asst.); 1988, Bethune-Cookman (Quarterbacks / Wide Rec.); 1989-90, Boca Raton H.S. (Def. Backs) 1991, Olympic Heights H.S.- Boca Raton, Fla. (Def. Coord. / Def. Backs); 1992-93, Grand Valley State (Def. Coord. / Def. Backs); 1994, Central Michigan (Def. Backs); 1995-96, Central Florida (Def. Coord. / Def. Backs); 1997, Eastern Michigan (Def. Backs); 1998-99, Central Michigan (Def. Backs); 2000, Central Michigan (Asst. Head Coach / Def.); 2001-04, Georgia (Secondary); 2005-09, Georgia (Defensive Coordinator / Secondary).
Playing Experience:
Miami (1981-84) Def. back… Member of the 1983 National Championship team.
Hollywood Hills H.S. (1977-81) Quarterback and defensive back…team captain.
Random, partially formed, Georgia preview thoughts « Get The Picture
August 28th, 2009
8:46 am
[...] It’s the line play, stupid. I don’t know that I’m quite at the point of saying you can forget about everything else, but I’m pretty damned close to it. This team will live and die on how well the offensive and defensive lines perform this year. A solid offensive line will let Bobo use the playbook to his best advantage, which in this case means giving Cox the time to play an intermediate passing game and keeping some degree of double coverage off of Georgia’s one offensive superstar. I don’t worry about the situation at defensive tackle, but without some upgraded play from the defensive end position, Martinez will be hearing a lot more of this. [...]
chazzo
August 28th, 2009
8:47 am
Of the DCs that have been mentioned, none have any reason to leave their school. Another thing, is the DCs job to teach fundamentals at specific positions. He does with backs, but what about the other folks missing tackles and blowing assignments. I am telling you last year all comes down to execution. I wonder how many of you naysayers will be hoping our D does bad so you can say you were right. Enough. Go buy some orange or some blue. It will look good on you.
hugedawgfan
August 28th, 2009
8:51 am
you should also be in love with Chavis due to him engineering some fine defensive schemes against us on several different years we played UT. Funny how our memories are as long as a bulldawgs p-cker.
chazzo
August 28th, 2009
8:53 am
Oh and here is VanGorder’s experience:
Grand Valley State 1989-1991
Wayne State 1992-1994
Central Florida (LBs/ST) 1994-1996
Central Florida (DC) 1996-1997
Central Michigan (DC) 1998-1999
Western Illinois(DC) 2000
Georgia (DC) 2001-2004
Jacksonville Jaguars (LBs) 2005
Georgia Southern 2006
Atlanta Falcons (LBs) 2007
Atlanta Falcons (DC) 2008-present
Paddy
August 28th, 2009
8:55 am
The test for WM comes very fast vs Okie St. If his guys put a whoop’in on that offense he can turn it around. To me he has a short leash and we will see what he can do on that short leash. It won’t take long UGA fans to see what we really have this season. My guess is that the offense will have to score like it always does.
shards1967
August 28th, 2009
9:02 am
This IS the year for the UGA D. If they do well, the pressure for now is off. If they get blown out in two or three big games like in 08 or vs WVA or UT two years ago, or like allowing a KY or a Tech to score like in 08, the CWM is gone.
It is TIME for him to go to the next level.
Denver Dog
August 28th, 2009
9:11 am
I’m tired of hearing about Muschamp, he was an average linebacker, and his defenses give up bunches of points. I’m sure he is a good coach, but we all know about coaches that give up bunches of points and we moan and complaing about that.
Let’s just see what happens, maybe the players will have more pride, afterall there will be some senior leadership out there, and maybe we will continue to have big scores. It all comes down to this year, Dogs this is now next year. We will start to notice in about 8 days. Give it a rest until then, and lets see what the players do on the field.
AltamahaDawg
August 28th, 2009
9:13 am
Finally got some guys who understand the DC is not the “tackling coach” in here. Furthermore, missed tackles happens dozens of times in every game, every week. I’ll be so glad when we can move on from this notion that the entire 2008 season boiled down to one play where a safety came from the other side of the field, took too sharp of an angle and couldn’t knock a RB going full speed out of bounds!
Nor is WM sitting in an isolation booth making “adjustments” during a game. See all the grown men with a big ol’ G on thier matching shirts?
SEC Links « The Blog Hawgs
August 28th, 2009
9:31 am
[...] Martinez is under a microscope this season in [...]
Georgia News – 8/28/09 | MrSEC.com
August 28th, 2009
9:39 am
[...] for Georgia fans this year. A… 10… win… season.Defensive coordinator Willie Martinez must hate it when fans and media compare his units’ stats against those of his predecessor, Brian [...]
chazzo
August 28th, 2009
9:40 am
I’ve looked over the stats. Willie’s aren’t that bad. Honestly. Actually, in 2005-2006, the were pretty stellar. I was trying to do a comparison with other DCs, but they move around so much, it is hard. But most of good ones mentioned in this thread coach Ds that allow btw. 3800-4500 yds. a season and fall in around 13-21 ppg allowed in any given season. Muschamp is stellar, true. Last year his D allowed 4458 yds and 18.8 ppg. Willie’s allowed 4056yds and 24.5 ppg. If you look at Willie’s record 2005-2009 as DC, it tells a story. The story is a bunch of top players graduated and/or went pro. As he is building it back up, all his big time players get season ending injuries. IN miserable 2006, Willie’s D held opposing teams to 17.6 ppg and 3357yds., and that was with freshman stafford throwing something like 10-13 picks. To pin the missed NC opportunities on Martinez is simply unfair and inaccurate. I don’t think he is the best, but he has done a good job.
D.N. Nation
August 28th, 2009
9:54 am
“In two of the biggest victories of the post-VanGorder era, Georgia beat Florida 42-30 in 2007…”
Ahem. About that game. Stafford through a pick-6, so make that 42-23. Also, celebration penalties killed on kickoffs, Penn Wagers took away two deep scoring drives by the offense, etc. The defense played well enough to win that game, say, 42-13.
Gator CHOMP Champ
August 28th, 2009
10:11 am
There is nothing wrong with Willie Martinez. Georgia fans should be happy about winning ten games a year. He should be given a raise and contract extension due to the continuation of such consistency.
jerseydawg
August 28th, 2009
10:15 am
I believe a lot of the shortcomings has to do with the lack of talent they are bringing in on defense. UGA has not had a defensive 1st round pick since Pollack and Thurman (I believe). In my opinion, they have missed on some prospects at positions of need like defensive end. Martinez is average at best, but I do not believe it is all coaching.
I think they are going much improved this year with Owens coming back. When he went down, that whole defense changed.
Gator CHOMP Champ
August 28th, 2009
10:20 am
Willie contained Florida and Alabama to 90 points. That’s on par with some other 2nd tier SEC teams, which isn’t all that bad. 10 wins a year is great at Georgia.
Dawg Fan
August 28th, 2009
10:22 am
predictable – does not make adjustments quick enough
Huevos Grandes
August 28th, 2009
10:25 am
Mark – Well done. You brought good data to help us judge the performance of Willie Martinez. The problem with evaluating Willie in totality is that in spite of defensive lapses UGA’s overall success has been very good – better than Vince Dooley’s!
The problem as I see it is inconsistency. One game Willie can create a masterful game plan (see ‘08 Sugar Bowl and ‘07 Florida games), then we have the ‘08 Tech game. Inexplicable is the only way to describe it.
For me 2009 is the judgement year for Willie Martinez. He’s got a ton of talent and a healthy squad to work with. Georgia should be vastly improved over last year. There are no execuses to lose to teams like Tech. Stack the line and make Tech beat you through the air. Ensure your defensive ends are pounding the QB on every option play. Defeating the option is not brain surgery!
chazzo
August 28th, 2009
10:30 am
Mark Bradley,
I am not sure I understand your stats. In one of your post, you seem to talk about 8 possible for Maritnez. He has been the DC since 2005. In 4 seasons, UGA went 10-3, 9-4, 11-2, 10-3, #10, #23, #2, #13 respectively. Total D rankings: 2005 #18, 2006 #20, 2007#14, 2008 #13. Prior to 2005 Total D: 2001 #49, 2002 #15, 2003 #4, 2004 #8. Yes #4 and #8 were stellar years. They were also Pollock years. VGs avg. for four years #19. WMs avg for 4 years #16.25. That avg. thing is a little bogus, but still. Let’s look at finishing #13 in total defense with half of your players out for the season and a pretty rough schedule.
Total D is much more telling than scoring D. With scoring D you need to factor in the schedule, the advent of the spread offense, field position, offensive turnovers, penalties and special teams.
Last season all came down to execution, and there were reasons beyond the DC why that happened.
EveryDawgHasHisDay
August 28th, 2009
10:32 am
IT IS NOT THE MARK RICHT IS JUST A NICE GUY WILLIE MARTINEZ WAS HIS COLLEGE ROOMATE. HE WILL NEVER FIRE WILLIE MARTINEZ. NEVER!!! OUR ONLY HOPE IS THAT HE GETS A HEAD COACHING JOB SOMEWHERE(SOMEONE WOULD BE DUMB TO GIVE HIM THAT POSITION.) OR THE ATHLETIC DIRECTOR STEPPS IN AND SAYS THAT HE HAS TO GO. WE CAN ONLY HOPE FOR THAT.
matt
August 28th, 2009
10:44 am
How many times over the last two years has the offense and special teams and even penalties given the opposition good field position, thus putting the defense at a disadvantage. I’m not trying to shift the blame. I just think that there are alot of variables involved.
BruffDawg
August 28th, 2009
10:46 am
Richt is giving him one more year, but do not be fooled by the move to make Janeck co-dc. This was done so if georgia’s defense is having a terrible season, Richt can fire Martinez and not have to look for a replacement. Martinez is essentially training his possible replacement and he knows it. PS there are lots of other ways to score besides with your offense, so points given up can be deceptive. And the GT game was not Willie’s fault. GT just wanted it more and it showed in the second half. There was also a pick six and fumble inside the twenty.
Matt
August 28th, 2009
10:48 am
I think you already answered your own question. Who would honestly be upset if he was let go??
Altamahaisahomer
August 28th, 2009
10:50 am
Nothing is the coaching staff’s fault right?
ryan
August 28th, 2009
10:52 am
bradley, where’d your brain go?
“Forty-two points weren’t enough to beat Georgia Tech last season, and 41 wouldn’t have been enough to beat Alabama or 49 sufficient to unhorse Florida”
huh? if we scored more in each of those games then they wouldn’t have scored as much as they did. so it wouldn’t have taken 49 to beat florida, 41 to beat bama, etc.
thats almost as bad as my favorite: falcons lost each when matt ryan had throw more than 25 times, therefore we should run more. we passed more because we were down!!!!!!!!!!