Hot Button: Is UGA’s Martinez a good defensive coordinator?
He's no Kevin Ramsey, but really, who is? (AJC photo by Brant Sanderlin)
The answer to the above question depends on definition. If by “good” we mean, “Way better than Kevin Ramsey,” the answer is yes. If by “good” we mean “one of the finest defensive coordinators in the nation,” the answer is no.
Willie Martinez suffers most by immediate comparison to his predecessor. In 52 games under Brian VanGorder, Georgia yielded 30-plus points only in the 2003 SEC championship game against an LSU team that would win the BCS title. In 52 games under Martinez, Georgia has yielded 30-plus points 11 times.
The average score of a Georgia loss in four seasons under VanGorder was 21-12. Not once in any of the 10 losses with BVG as DC did the Bulldogs score 20 points themselves, meaning those defeats were more related to offensive failings. Now look:
The average score of a Georgia loss in four seasons under Martinez has been 32-23. Five times in those 12 losses the Bulldogs have scored 30-plus points, which means the offense has been holding up its end.
The offense has waxed and waned under Mark Richt. (Last season the Bulldogs ranked 22nd nationally in total offense, their best showing since finishing 21st in 2001.) The defense has slipped. In four seasons under VanGorder, Georgia ranked among the nation’s top 10 in total defense twice and scoring defense three times. In four seasons under Martinez, the Bulldogs have ranked among the nation’s top 10 in those categories once apiece.
Over time, the yardage figures are almost congruent. Opponents averaged 305 yards per game against BVG’s D; they’ve averaged 302 against WM’s. What has changed is more problematic:
Georgia now has to score big to win, and that’s a tough way to travel. Forty-two points weren’t enough to beat Georgia Tech last season, and 41 wouldn’t have been enough to beat Alabama or 49 sufficient to unhorse Florida. And before we dismiss 2008 as a function of injuries and penalties and suchlike, let’s note the Bullogs lost 31-30 to Auburn and 38-35 to West Virginia in 2005 and 51-33 to Tennessee in 2006.
In two of the biggest victories of the post-VanGorder era, Georgia beat Florida 42-30 in 2007 and LSU 52-38 last season. The Bulldogs used to win because their defense served as a safety net. They now work without that net.
Loading ...Martinez’s defenders — not to be confused with the men who play his defense — say his units make key stops (against Kentucky and Auburn last season, for example) and that he plays the defense Richt wants played. But it’s tough to imagine any head coach prefers a defense that collapses periodically, and it’s difficult to argue that, given Georgia’s gaudy rankings every single Signing Day, this coordinator is working without talent.
The aforementioned Ramsey lasted one season (1999) as Jim Donnan’s defensive coordinator. His undoing was a 38-21 loss to an Auburn team that entered Sanford Stadium 4-5 but led 31-0 at the half. (Quarterback Ben Leard passed for 416 yards that bizarre night.) Bulldog fans take pride in both their stadium and their history of stalwart defense, and they filed out early on Nov. 13, 1999 believing that hadn’t ever seen and wouldn’t again see such a thing.
On Sept. 27, 2008, Alabama scored on five consecutive possessions against the nation’s No. 3 team. The halftime score in Athens was 31-0.
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353 comments Add your comment
john
August 27th, 2009
4:42 pm
Please, please get a story that makes me want to read this stuff.
OK, so you say he stinks. If you are to complain, look at the head coach. He is thinking… “Who out there that is available, and is that person better?”
Lets move on to real news.
Cuz
August 27th, 2009
4:47 pm
Gator Chomp, I don’t know if I would talk so big if I was you. I have seen Florida’s out of conference schedule and it looks “scary”.
Champaign Dawg
August 27th, 2009
4:52 pm
STILL…the UGA countdown to kickoff clock is off by an hour. Is it that hard to correct?
Ed
August 27th, 2009
4:53 pm
I’m not surprised at the huge disparity in yards allowed (22nd) and points allowed (59th) in ‘08. Sometimes when the offense screws up and puts the other team in position to score, you need to make a stop and force a field goal. It seems like a mistake in a key game last year became an automatic 7 points for the opponent.
Also, too many complete meltdowns where Georgia seemed completely helpless against the opposing offense – West Va. in the Sugar Bowl, Auburn at various times in the ‘05 game, the first quarter against a mediocre Florida team in ‘05 (we were aided from then on by an extremely cautious, conservative approach from Florida, but the damage was done), Tennessee in ‘06 and ‘07 (back-to-back embarassments), Kentucky, Vandy and Colorado in ‘06 (a horrible CO team went up and down the field on us the entire first half, even if they were too inept to score), and Alabama, Florida and Georgia Tech in ‘08. Also, Troy lit us up one year – maybe ‘07.
There were huge defensive lapses in the ‘05 loss to Auburn that should have ruined our conference title hopes (thanks South Carolina). Even the ‘07 Florida game left a lot to be desired – Florida moved the ball easily and scored often despite two costly turnovers, good thing their defense was even worse than ours that day.
There’s no question in my mind that Martinez isn’t the right guy for the job. But, that doesn’t mean he should be fired. When BVG ran the defense and Martinez was coaching the DBs, I think the defensive backfield was a definite strength of the team. Maybe he’s not cut out to be a coordinator. No shame in that. But I don’t think the Dawgs return to the top of the SEC until a change is made at the coordinator position.
Husker4Ever
August 27th, 2009
4:54 pm
Gator Chump, chomp on this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VojVTyYWGds
BBB
August 27th, 2009
4:56 pm
Big year for Martinez….no doubt.
AltamahaDawg
August 27th, 2009
4:59 pm
john, are you suggesting that an article 8 days before the new season starts asking, “does your DC stink”, and how many hits do you think I can get with this, is not riveting journalism?
King Gator
August 27th, 2009
4:59 pm
I do .. Go Gators!
Starring Kam Fong as Chin Ho
August 27th, 2009
5:01 pm
In the immortal words of Hank Hill ” He ain’t much but he’s all I got”
King Gator
August 27th, 2009
5:05 pm
Husker4Ever, you’re living in the past brother. The Gators have won 3 football NC’s since the ‘95 thrashing by the Huskers. (Plus 2 in basketball) Wasn’t that hard to get over it when the Gators beat FSU for the title the very next year. Like Thunder Collins and Lawrence Phillips you and all Husker fans are in your own “jails” having to support what currently is and remembering what used to be. You’ll be lucky finish 5th in your own conference this year. Go Gatos! 3 NC’s in 4 years in ‘09! CHOMP CHOMP!
Chris
August 27th, 2009
5:11 pm
Mark, I applaud you for this article. It is the best you have written yet.
I want my DAWGS to win every game and have a great defense but Willie has got to go. I don’t care if we have a good defensive year, he should still be fired. One descent year out of five is not good enough.
So what if we were so close to playing for the SEC championship, and a possible national championship in 07. We would have been there with a great D.C. Willie has no business being a D.C. at Georgia or any other school for that matter.
Are we going to get into the same rut that we did with Ray Golf? It took way too long for the universtiy to get rid of that pathetic excuse of a coach, so why is it taking so long this time? Mark Richt can be overuled, and he should be in this situation. Willie Martinez SUCKS! I don’t care how nice he is. He will never get the job done at Georgia.
Why is that so hard for some people to see?????
john
August 27th, 2009
5:12 pm
You are right. I wish the “nation” knew fotball…
Bob Horner
August 27th, 2009
5:21 pm
This guy is a clown.. add an inept coordinator into a mix of kids who don’t know how to tackle, and you have the recipe for disaster.
Get this boob out of there – UGA will NEVER win a BCS title with this schlep at the helm of the defense.
Nick
August 27th, 2009
5:21 pm
I must say that’s the most concise article I’ve read or argument I’ve heard on the matter. Great investigation, Mark. I honestly think that if things aren’t turned around defensively this year (and fast), at a minimum, the boosters are going to be on CMR’s back pretty hard to axe this guy. Those numbers certainly don’t lie, albeit, each year and each game is altogether a different situation, but nonetheless, it’s hard to keep overlooking the numbers and the facts. I hope for the sake of the Bulldog Nation that he turns things around and is able to get past the controversy at some point, but if it doesn’t change soon, I’m all for “Off with their (his) head(s)”!
Go Dawgs!
john
August 27th, 2009
5:22 pm
I meant to say Football
Gator CHOMP Champ
August 27th, 2009
5:23 pm
Husker4Ever, sounds like you’re most appreciative of all of what the Gators have accomplished. 3 crystal football NCs to GA’s ZERO. What happened in 1980 was not a BCS NC. You’re old news…just get on board, there’s plenty of room for Frawg fans to pull for a program that plays for current NCs-kinda like what’s going to happen again in January 2010. Enjoy. Sincerely, your defending NCs!
Preston
August 27th, 2009
5:25 pm
I’ll tell you if I believe CWM is a good DC at the end of the season. After last season, he has something to prove this season. Too much talent on this team year in and year out not to have stellar performances.
Pi$$onaDawg
August 27th, 2009
5:26 pm
Maybe Willie and Pat Nix can find jobs together a some high school.
redandblackblood
August 27th, 2009
5:28 pm
I am not defending martinez, he is a decent Defensive Coordinator at a school where we demand greatness. That Tennessee loss in 2006 does not belong to him it belongs to the Offense and special teams which kept giving up TD’s and great field position. I wouldn’t be upset if Martinez was let go, but he is our DC and I hope he figures out how to make the defense Great this year. I am just glad that we got rid of our offensive coordinator / O line coach back in 2006.. (Thanks UAB for taking him off of our hands) Go Dawgs
45ACP
August 27th, 2009
5:36 pm
POAD, good to see you’re doing better today.
Ed
August 27th, 2009
5:42 pm
“What happened in 1980 was not a BCS NC”
I had to laugh at this quote. You think the BCS has somehow legitimized the so-called national championship? If anything, the BCS has become more of a joke than the old AP/UP system ever was. It’s been nonstop controversy since it’s inception. Last year, it left many people thinking that the best team was Utah. The year before, we were treated to a two-loss champion.
The national title is every bit as fictional today as it was in years past. And yes, that includes Georgia’s mythical “titles” in ‘42 and ‘80. The NCAA doesn’t even recognize a major college national championship. It should not be taken seriously.
gratefuldawghead
August 27th, 2009
5:53 pm
SavannahDawg I agree to back the Dawgs 100%, but Richt gave his boy Martinez a $ 30,000 BONUS for last year! Martinez has blamed everyone but himself. The Defense is a direct reflection of the coach. Richt has never fired anyone, BUT I will give him this year. I pray you are right.
GO DAWGS!
Midland Dog
August 27th, 2009
5:53 pm
I like Ed’s post. WM just is in over his head. This is the HOTSEAT! One more year and I think Damon Evans pulls the trigger, and rightly so. This many fans can’t possibly be wrong, could they?
John
August 27th, 2009
5:55 pm
Ouestion: On 3rd down and 4 yards to go, the Georgia DB is 15 yards off the ball…How in the he11 is this player in position to make the play? If the said DB runs a 3.5 forty yard dash it’s possible, but not likely.
Fire Martinez!!
Mark Bradley
August 27th, 2009
5:57 pm
Actually, Buck Strickland, I believe Coach Ramsey got fired and then took a swing on Coach Donnan.
HH
August 27th, 2009
5:58 pm
The question isn’t whether Martinez is a “good” or a “bad” defensive coordinator. Willie has unconditionally answered that question himself.
The real question is: Is Mark Richt, the “most overrated and/or overpaid coach” too STUPID to figure out the answer himself?
My guess is the latter. I also guess that if “Willie” proves to be his old self again this season, Richt won’t have to worry about figuring out the answer, because his “higher ups”, one in particular, will figure it out for him.
monty
August 27th, 2009
6:06 pm
Coaching is so much more than just taking a bunch of blue chippers and putting them out there and netting good results. All you have to do to determine if a team is well coached or not is watch them play. DO they look like they are giving maximum effort on every play? Are they intense? Football is all about intensity especially on the defensive side. I can’t remenber a game last year where I thought,”MAn this defense is fired up”. Maybe in the first half of the bowl game but not a regular season game.You can fake intensity but it only last until the other team starts to dominate.
gratefuldawghead
August 27th, 2009
6:18 pm
Mark..I think Kevin Winslow,on ESPN,called Donnan a “Racist” for firing Ramsey.
red hill
August 27th, 2009
6:19 pm
Willie Martinez defenses have zero intensity and just about zero effort. Fundamentals are awful (see tackling). And btw, all you Gaytor fans can GTH.
Cuz
August 27th, 2009
6:31 pm
How does Mike Adams feel about Coach Willie. That is where the power lies.
C Robert
August 27th, 2009
6:36 pm
The 1st person to come up with a way to “consistently” stop the Spread is going to be a very rich man…
Denver Dog
August 27th, 2009
6:41 pm
The year has not even started yet. If the O line is bad are we going to start trashing Searles. I think that we will know how good Willie is after the UF game. Maybe after the OSU game. His skills are to be tested severely this year, and I would have to say it is all on the line. I think that he did a great job last year as the whole staff did with and empty chest. Now the drawer is full and we should see what happens when the guys get on the field. My biggest concern last year was that we didn’t have a defense to score at will, but then we couldn’t march down the field on 5 + minute drives. So if the other team scores quickly, and we take along time to score, it keeps the ball out of the other teams hands, and therefore, we should win. Defense is not as tired, etc and so forth.
So we will see.
77DAWG
August 27th, 2009
6:50 pm
(((((NO))))), he is here to screw up GA program. One by one we will lose a top player without a title. He make CMR look bad even thouhg we have a top recruiting class every year.
Adam
August 27th, 2009
7:11 pm
Please do a comparison of the points off turnovers in the different years. Under BVG, the offense led by Greene was more inclined to game management and efficiency. Under WM, the offense was more high paced and has turned the ball over significantly. If my guess is right, much of the perception about the defense is really a key factor that is not controllable by the defense but rather the offense. On a side note though, there was no excuse for the lack of a pass rush last year!
derrick
August 27th, 2009
7:28 pm
no we need brian vangorder back
Dorsey Hill
August 27th, 2009
7:38 pm
BVG had Richard Seymour, Marcus Stroud, David Pollock, Jonathan Sullivan, Charles Grant, Sean Jones, Odell Thurman, and Thomas Davis. The middle of his defenses were manned by very high draft picks. If you think that CWM has had the same or close to the same talent at those positions, I can only ask who? Who are the high defensive draft picks that CWM has had? Off the top of my head I think Blue is the highest draft pick and that was second round. The guys listed above were all or almost all 1st rounders.
Whether we like it or not Tre Battle (undrafted), Kelin Johnson (undrafted), Rashad Jones, CJ Byrd(undrafted), and Dannell Ellerbe (undrafted), etc… are not the same quality of players as BVG had in the middle of the defense..
dan
August 27th, 2009
7:41 pm
Adam,
I think the points off turnovers is huge. Florida was +22 in turnovers last year which is crazy, which divided by 12 is almost 2 turnovers per game. Compare this to UGA which -3 in turnovers. That’s terrible. The good news for the rest of the teams in the SEC is that according to Phil Steele, when a team has an overabundance of turnovers in their favor, they never generate the same amount in the second year. For instance in 2007 LSU was +21 in turnovers and were National Champions. In 2008 they were -1 in turnovers and finished 8-5.
There are some exceptions to the rule. Florida in 2005 was +18 in turnovers and finished 9-3 in Urban Meyers first year. In 2006 they had +6 turnovers and went 13-1 winning a National Title. However, the scores of many of those games in 2006 were decided by a TD or less. Now the Gators do have experience across the board this year to make up for the lack of turnovers they will get. I think the key for most teams will be to not buy into the Gator hype, which will be hard. But if they can do it, and not turn the ball over, I think some of Florida’s wins will be closer then they think like they were in 2006.
Big Jon
August 27th, 2009
7:51 pm
CMR will never win a NC. He will never fire CWM. Or BOBO. BullDawg Nation ask CMR to take a pay cut or Fire CWM. They are living the good life in Athens Town. Damon Evans is not a Strong Enough AD , yet. Get use to it. Hey, Does anyone on here care our Nation is in Trouble. Jobs are going over seas. It is sad and I am guilty as anybody of puttin football before God and Country. Shame on us.
munson maniac
August 27th, 2009
7:56 pm
When are we going to bring Will Muschamp back to Athens? Enough is enough! He has proven himself as a fine defensive coordinator and rumor has it that he is ready to return home.
UGA Grad '08
August 27th, 2009
8:04 pm
Mark, i applaud you for your research but do we have a stat showing yards allowed per play during the BVG and WM eras? i feel that you can’t have an apples to apples comparision without it. For example in the Florida game the score was 49-10 but rhe dawgs actaully outgained the Gators just as Tech outgained LSU in the peach bowl. Special Teams and field position can definitely impact scoring defense and total defense.
john johnson
August 27th, 2009
8:06 pm
This was an interesting article. Since the total defensive yards given up BVG’s and WM’s defenses are virtual identical what constitutes the decline in defensive production? Perhaps A few things. 1 BVG was better at making adjustments on the fly. 2. BVG defenses did not give as many big plays. 3. BVG was better at making the correct defensive calls or better at disguising his defensive schemes. Regarding last year, it was the first time that under a CMR coached team, that the Dawgs had no defensive ends. If Mo Howard and Charles Johnson played on WMs defense last year, results may have been entirely different. Both BVG and WMs defensive schemes are predicated on getting pressure from the D-ends. Without that pressure, Georgia’s defense was exposed. I definitely feel BVG is a better defensive coordinator, working as the Falcons’ DC substantiates that, but I also believe last year’s defensive performance was an aberration. This is probably WMs last opportunity to prove himself. Any repeat performance like last year will doom him.
JJ
Dorsey Hill
August 27th, 2009
8:10 pm
munson maniac,
Go back and look at how we performed against Will Muschamp’s defenses. Not particularly impressive.
BTW: he is the head coach in waiting at Texas. Why the hell would he leave?
jimmy
August 27th, 2009
8:13 pm
mark,nice house ,great job i wouldn’t lose them ouer willie
Cuz
August 27th, 2009
8:52 pm
Give the man September before you light the firewood at his feet.
K-Town Dawg
August 27th, 2009
8:53 pm
My question to the “fire martinez b/c he sucks crowd” is where exactly are you coaching? I would imagine you guys have some pretty high-proflie coaching gigs since you know so much, right?
Hurry up and get that resume up-to-date and start waiting by the phone because Damon Evans will surely be calling you!
Pit Bull
August 27th, 2009
8:59 pm
Hey! You Willie supporters! You’re the reason Ga doesn’t win National Champioships. You settle for SUBPAR. You deserve your TEN win seasons. Be Happy! Just don’t expect the Gators to put up with that kind of CRAP< Losers!
Skip Jacobs
August 27th, 2009
9:01 pm
Where were all the Martinez critics in 07?
Defensive issues last year were the result of:
Injuries to key personnel that led Mark Richt to decide to limit live tackling in practice-if you look at the defensive slide-it started happening right about when this shift in practice routine started.
Penalties-both sides of the ball.
I will tell you that the defense will be one of the best in the country this year. We recruit in the top five every year-Willie martinez is a solid coach.
Last year was a tough year in many respects-yet we went 10-3 with the toughest schedule in the country-period. Let’s see when Florida had their off year in 07-what was their record?
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe they lost 4 games-incl. the bowl game to a Michigan team which was nothing special. Their schedule in 07 not as tough as ours in 08
One more point- we beat Fla in 07-worse than they beat us in 08. I’m nuts right, look at the
scores. Look at the stats of the 08 game-I believe we actually had more yards of offense in that game. Don’t get me wrong, we deserved to lose, but that victory was gift wrapped.
elderdawg
August 27th, 2009
9:02 pm
“Is UGA’s Martinez a good defensive coordinator?”
No, but he stayed at a Holiday Inn the night before Coach Richt’s wedding, where he was his “Best Man”.
chazzo
August 27th, 2009
9:36 pm
Everyone should read Jeff’s post, posted 8/27 at 4:27 pm. The man knows what he is talking about. VG never had to patch together third string ends and backs who weren’t allowed to full on tackle in practice. VG had once in a lifetime superstars in Pollock, Jones, and Davis all on the same team. Notice he left with his star power and has been in relative mediocrity ever since.
Alabama story: 10 penalties and 2 turnovers
Florida story: 8 penalties and 4 turnovers, also 2 missed field goals and an ill-advised onside kick
GT story: no tackling 7 penalties and 1 turnover (and I think GT was just plain due).
Thrid quarters are problematic: 21 zip against UF, 26 zip against GT
Yeah okay, what is up with the D? But, what is up with the O? They couldn’t get the depleted D off the field.
Also, consider flying to Arizona and back before meeting Alabama and playing in Baton Rouge the week before the cocktail party.
DAWG
August 27th, 2009
9:40 pm
To Saint Simon, did you even graduate with such a limited vocabulary. You must have a tough life being so limited, I can just imagine when you go out for dinner and they ask you to place an order and your response is 45-42.You would have thought Georgia Tech won the lottery by beating us and it only took seven years.