As rallying cries go, this one is a bit weird: “We’re better off now because nobody thinks we’re the best team in the country.” But this is college football, where anything is grist for the motivational mill.
A year ago the Georgia Bulldogs found themselves ranked No. 1, and they didn’t like the way that turned out. So now they’ve decided it’s better not to have drawn a single vote to finish first in the SEC East. (Florida was a unanimous choice at the conference’s Media Days.) It’s better being considered not nearly as good.
Mark Richt told the Greater Atlanta Bulldog Club last month that he feels he “has a lot more juice” going into this season. Last year, he recalled, he’d gone on a mission trip and had returned to face a barrage of questions on two fronts – the number of off-field incidents involving Georgia players, which hasn’t been an issue this time, and being the first team in school history ranked preseason No. 1, which isn’t an issue, either.
And there is a compelling recent precedent. In 2005 the Bulldogs were picked to finish third in the East for what seemed good reason: They’d lost their longtime starting quarterback. Indeed, that’s what some players chanted during the celebration on the floor of the Georgia Dome after they’d beaten LSU for the 2005 league title: “Third in the East … third in the East …”
We don’t yet know if Joe Cox can do as D.J. Shockley did four years ago – steer his team to a championship after waiting his turn – but the parallel alone gives the Bulldogs hope. So does the return of two anchors from injury: Trinton Sturdivant, the sturdy left tackle, and Jeff Owens, the forceful defensive tackle.
Georgia’s hope this season is to be strong where it was weak in 2008 – up front. Nobody is suggesting Matthew Stafford and Knowshon Moreno won’t be missed, but the Bulldogs should never lack for talent at the skill positions. Cox doesn’t have Stafford’s arm and Caleb King lacks Moreno’s wiggle, but these are still SEC-caliber players.
That said, this will mark only the fourth time in Richt’s tenure at Georgia, which is entering its ninth season, the Bulldogs have approached a season with an untested No. 1 quarterback. In 2001, David Greene’s first season as starter, they finished 8-4. In 2006, the season that began with Joe Tereshinski III as No. 1 and saw Cox start at Ole Miss and finished with Stafford in control, they were 9-4.
Put another way, the two worst seasons under Richt – not to say that a four-loss campaign is “bad” – have come when the No. 1 quarterback was a relative newbie. The belief here is that 2009 will be a similarly lesser year, that four losses will again be the result, that this will be more like 2006 than 2005.
Then again, I was among those who believed Georgia would be the best team in the land in 2008. So I’m already one of the prime motivators. Glad to be of service, guys.
Sept. 5, Oklahoma State at Stillwater: Some Bulldog fans see OSU as another Arizona State. Different league, folks. OSU 30, Georgia 20.
Sept. 12, South Carolina at Athens: The Evil Genius marred 2007 season by winning at Sanford Stadium. Not this time. Georgia 24, South Carolina 14.
Sept. 19, Arkansas at Fayetteville, Ark.: Tempting to go with the Hogs, but the Richt road mojo will carry the day. Georgia 21, Arkansas 20.
Sept. 26, Arizona State at Athens: OK, here’s the real Arizona State, and here’s the first easy win of 2009. Georgia 31, Arizona State 10.
Oct. 3, LSU at Athens: Big-time opponent enters big-time environment and leaves with big-time victory. LSU 24, Georgia 23.
Oct. 10, Tennessee at Knoxville: Any letdown potential after LSU will be overridden by the Kiffin Factor. Georgia 24, Tennessee 13.
Oct. 17, Vanderbilt at Nashville: Another road game in the Volunteer State, this one tougher. But still a Georgia “W.” Georgia 27, Vanderbilt 20.
Oct. 31, Florida at Jacksonville: Strange things happen on Halloween, don’t they? Nothing this strange, I fear. Florida 30, Georgia 17.
Nov. 7, Tennessee Tech at Athens: Don’t look now, but Georgia’s sixth victory will be its third in a row over a team from Tennessee. Georgia 42, Tennessee Tech 10.
Nov. 14, Auburn at Athens: Yes, the road team tends to win in this strange series. But not when Gene Chizik coaches the road team. Georgia 24, Auburn 14.
Nov. 21, Kentucky at Athens: Three in a row for the surging Bulldogs, setting the stage for the big game in Atlanta. Georgia 33, Kentucky 17.
Nov. 28, Georgia Tech at Atlanta: Willie Martinez has had a year to figure out Paul Johnson’s offense. He’ll need another. Georgia Tech 30, Georgia 24.
481 comments Add your comment
comedydogs....
August 12th, 2009
8:35 pm
88, I think its safe to say that the more stars you take off of a team, the worse they would be….
With that said, UF’s talent across the board RIGHT NOW is second to NONE. They have recruited very well and they coach up their talent down there
Tech is Great
August 12th, 2009
8:35 pm
Joe Cox…..LOL!!!!!!!!!!
ghost dawg
August 12th, 2009
8:36 pm
remember your predictions after the first game. Too late then to jump on the dawg bandwagon. The dawg nation never forgets.
You are fired...
August 12th, 2009
8:36 pm
WM won’t get another year to figure out GT’s or any other d. Mark it down Mark.
SOUTHGADAWG88
August 12th, 2009
8:36 pm
Everybody seems to be buying the GT hype I don’t get it.People only seem to remember the Mia and Uga game….but what about VA,NC,LSU how about Garder-Webb.Now they lose the best DL players they had and they are going to be a great team?Somebody explain that for me.
Tech is Great
August 12th, 2009
8:44 pm
88, they return eveyone else. Their offense is very difficult to stop because you only practice against it one week out of the year. Yes, they lost to LSU bad and three others and people knew they would have some tough games in their first year, but it is no different than UGA losing to USC and UT in 07 and struggling to beat Vandy that same year. It didn’t take away from the fact that UGA had a good year.
Tech will build on that year because their players have an extra year in the system and the bring almost everyone back. Their Dline will take a step back, their back 7 was loaded with soph and fresh last year so they should improve a lot.
comedydogs....
August 12th, 2009
8:47 pm
Tech will be really good this year. They return a lot
BufordDawg
August 12th, 2009
8:51 pm
Good point, SOUTHGADAWG!!! The NATS (you know what it means) will have a tough row to hoe this year, man. I am glad that they have finally assembled a team because it was getting pretty boring whipping the GT azz year in and year out. The insects have a ton of issues just to compete in the lowly ACC. We’ll see how the chips fall. CPJ is a mighty fine coach but GT will drop a few games this year – VT,FSU,NC. Also toss-ups with Clemson and Miami. Go Dawgs!!!!!!!!!!!!
chazzo
August 12th, 2009
8:56 pm
Bradley,
Do you read a paper or magazine? Do you know what the other ajc writers are writing. This article is old news. Try doing some research and reporting. Maybe you could try to add some insight.
SOUTHGADAWG88
August 12th, 2009
8:58 pm
Comedy you still avoided the question..but anyway NO I AM NOT on the Joe Cox bandwagon…I see Gray or Murray as the guy which is why I say our Offense will be different ..without Stafford and Moreno we will not better on O…no I don’t believe that.Now the FB,TE and WR losses are moot in my book because the players we have are BETTER than the ones we lost.The OL/DL comparison don’t wash either FLA couldn’t block Owens and Atkins in 07.in 08 Owens was out.Conversely Sturidivant locked down that left side in 07 as a true freshman and was out in 08.Besides Moreno and Stafford UGA is a better team all around and of the two Moreno will be the hardest to replace because I see us with a different look all together on Offense with a run threat QB.The Gator secondary was very good in 08.. about as good as they were horrible in 07 so on that point we shall see how it plays out.
TampaGator
August 12th, 2009
9:03 pm
SOUTHGEORGIADAWG…please stop making excuses for not winning a game. Great teams step up when their stars are injured and out of games. Harvin, a major superstar, was out against FSU and Alabama last year. The backups stepped up and Florida won the games. That is what great teams do, and great teams have great back up players to step in. Georgia lost to Florida because they obviously did not have the depth to step up. Florida did and still does. They are 3-deep at almost every position with really outstanding athletes. If someone goes down, someone steps up. Otherwise, you are just a good team like Georgia was last year. By the way, Florida played the Georgia game last year with Dustin Doe hurt at starting LB, both backup guards out with injuries, and the starting right tackle on offense played the entire game hurt. Also, Moody was injured. And Riley Cooper was out of the game. Aaron Hernandez played with an injured arm. Harvin played with a banged up ankle. Both backup defensive tackles, Epps and Antwine were out with injuries (Antwine got hurt at the beginning of the game and did not return). But Florida still managed to win the game. They did not make excuses. They gutted it up and played to win! STOP WITH THE EXCUSES AS TO WHY YOU DIDN’T WIN THE GAME. Tebow was hurt in ‘07, but Florida was beaten by a better Georgia team that year. Georgia would have won that game if Tebow was not hurt. Georgia might have had the best team in the country that year. So give your excuses a break, would you.
UGA Grad '08
August 12th, 2009
9:10 pm
I generally agree with Tampa Gator’s points. I think his/ her analysis of UGA is pretty fairly stated. UGA’s a great program but we have some question marks. Meanwhile the Gators return 21 of 22 on a proven Defense. any objective observer would agree with what TG has said.
So i’m going to take a tall swig of kool-aid and jinx my team: if we beat Ok state why is it impossible that we could go 11-1? assuming a vintage Georgia defense returns and Cox manages the game similar to Matt Flynn in 2007 begind a solid o-line, who on the schedule besides UF would we not be favored to beat? Personally i have a sneaking suspicion LSU could be ranked that high on name alone. Legitimate question to LSU fans, no disrespect intended: what are the strengths and weaknesses of this years LSU team? How many starters do they return on D since that has traditionally been the Tiger’s calling card. IF LSU is similar to last years LSU team we could have a pretty easy SEC schedule. I also believe that a disciplined UGA defense stops Tech’s running attack. Heck we had them shut down until we forgot how to tackle.
On a final note, some fans on this forum need to calm done. it’s just fottball. let’s keep it civil. Not to mention it’s preseason predictions, nobody really knows who is going to surprise and who is going to disappoint. You just won’t know until the teams have played some games.
SOUTHGADAWG88
August 12th, 2009
9:12 pm
I say Owens and Atkins are better prospects than anyone FLA has on the D-line..who’s better?Sturdivant and Boiling are better Tackles than anyone the Gator’s have as well.I believe the Mincy twins are a G/C tandem.
comedydogs....
August 12th, 2009
9:13 pm
excuses…excuses….excuses….
I guess 88 and the rest of the gang can hope a little longer
comedydogs....
August 12th, 2009
9:19 pm
dude…who cares what the NFL thinks….Do you think I would trade 2 NC rings to UGA for Stafford if I was a UF fan?….HELL NO….you live off of NFL picks while the rest of us live on what our teams do in college since that is who we pull for….the COLLEGE team
and not that I care who is better, but the Pouncey twins were G/C, but this year they will be G/G this year.
…and you are kidding yourself if you don’t think UF has some big time prospects on the dline and oline…
but what is funny is that so far in this blog alone, you think UGA has the better oline, dline, wr’s, rb’s…
who do you feel has the better db’s, lb’s qb’s and coaches…? Just curious…
SOUTHGADAWG88
August 12th, 2009
9:19 pm
TampaGator it’s not an excuse it’s reality..Tebow banged up in 07 but he played.If he missed the game I won’t say UGA was better…they should have won the game.I’m not concerned with backups…so what?I’m talking starters…all conference…all American caliber players..so SIR i reject that yap about making excuses too.I asked a straightforward question..I don’t need a lecture about players stepping up if that was all it was to it then FLA shouldn’t have lost 4 games in 07.
comedydogs....
August 12th, 2009
9:23 pm
In 07, UF’s offense was the best in the sec and one of the best in the country. The problem was that they lost 9 starters off of Defense and several backups. They took their licks in 07 and it paid off starting 5 true freshman and 4 true sophmore and pretty much all the backups were fresh and soph as well. The thing with UF’s Defense is that you can’t show me ONE single position where the backup player on the two deep hasn’t started multiple games. That is depth. It was created in 07. Backups are huge because it allows you to be competitive if you lose a few starters as UGA did.
And for the record, UF has several All Conf/AA type players
joe taxpayer
August 12th, 2009
9:26 pm
7 and 5 because we lose to Ark.
comedydogs....
August 12th, 2009
9:27 pm
I’m still waiting on jealous to address my post to him at 5:48….LOL
SOUTHGADAWG88
August 12th, 2009
9:28 pm
Comedy Yes UGA has a better OL/DL and WR’s .RB nod to FLA because they at least have production coming back in Rainey/Demps.For now I say the Gator secondary is better, LB slight edge to FL,Tebow?C’mon I am a football fan not a blind homer.I say we will dominate both lines of scrimmage in that game in come out with a win..I just don’t think that will be FLA’s only loss.
UGA Grad '08
August 12th, 2009
9:28 pm
Um, we do know these are PRESEASON predictions right? As in Preseason as in nobody really knows for sure who will do what since NOBODY has played a game. Wasn’t Clemson supposed to be a NC contender in 2008 and Michigan likewise in 2007? The only team I can say with almost 100% certainty will be a beast this year is Florida, which kills me as a Dawg fan. Why? They return 21 of 22 on the depth chart of a D that averaged less than two TDs a game last year. They did NOT have anywhere close to that in 2007.
As for the Dawgs, I’m going to take a tall drink of cool-aid and ask: if they beat OK state why is impossible they could go 11-1? The only really scary team besides UF is LSU. Here’s an honest question to LSU fans: who do the Tigers have to replace on D? How is this team different the 7-5 2008 team besides bringing in Chavis? Honest questions, no disrespect intended, I would really love some insight. Other than UF who would UGA not be favored to beat if Joe Cox can manage games like Matt Flynn behind a good O-line and a vintage Georgia D returns.
I’d agree with most of Tampa gator’s points as you can see in my above statements. (Tampa Gator here’s a shout out for keeping your posts fact based and civil) I’d also agree with his analysis in what the dawgs would need to do to win in Jax. Long time consuming drives to keep their offense on the sidelines as well as a few timely turnovers. I’d also like to ask ALL no matter who you root for posters to be civil. It’s just a football forum, no need for childish antics. Even better if you have an intelligent opinion.
SOUTHGADAWG88
August 12th, 2009
9:33 pm
Maybe I should preface my comments with this…I see FLA,ALA,UGA and LSU all around 10-2 Nobody is undefeated this year in the SEC..but a two loss SEC team might still be in the NC game.
BruffDawg
August 12th, 2009
9:37 pm
At least tampa gator does not use the whole tebow was hurt in 07 excuse. Let’s join him in making no excuses and just geat the gators.
Tim Tebow
August 12th, 2009
9:38 pm
comedydawgs, I like your stile. Can we meet at my dorm to just talk some football? You seem to know a lot about my teem. I can show you a lot about me. For example, I usualy sob when I lose. I sob when I watch movies on HBO. I shed teers when I see a sunrise. I just need to cry once ina wile. We can cry together in my dorm. I have the Ole Miss film from last year and maybe we can watch it together. Do you like to cry too? Will you hold me wile I cry? I will hold you too. There is nothing wrong with crying. C’mon now. Let’s have a good cry togethyer. I think I love you.
Fools Gold
August 12th, 2009
9:44 pm
Mark Bradley….. You are a genius in your own right! I whole heartedly concur. Folks believing its gonna be a 10- 2 season just dont understand that its another year of Fools Gold!
Saint Simons
August 12th, 2009
9:46 pm
A Georgia Tech professor has been arrested and charged with 15 counts of sexual exploitation of children.
UPDATE: It was actually CPJ found in the tech locker room!
comedydogs....
August 12th, 2009
9:47 pm
88, you are dreaming if you think UGA is equal to UF right now, but you DO have the right to dream
Bruff…I don’t use that excuse either. UGA was the better team that day no doubt…
Tim Tebow, I do know a lot about UGA because I live in GA and follow football really close. I give unbiased opinions, but you have to remember they are MY opinions. That doesn’t make them fact so don’t get so bent out of shape about them.
Now, again, you are assuming that I am a Florida fan and even if I am, why in the hell are you talking smack about Ole Miss beating UF? That still doesn’t take away the fact that UF beat UGA like a drum say…49-10 and won a NC. So, why would Ole Miss beating UF hurt my feelings if I was a UF fan? Also, do you honestly think that UGA would have beaten Ole Miss last year with that pathetic Defense? Hahaha…right,….now continue riding Ole Miss’s success since UGA couldn’t beat the team that you THINK I am a fan of…
weak SEC sisters club
August 12th, 2009
9:47 pm
Sorry Mark you are too kind but Dawgs lose to SC and Arkansas….. 6 – 6 Goodbye Willie!
Skip Jacobs
August 12th, 2009
9:48 pm
I don’t believe 2001 and 2006 are valid comparisons to 2009. First of all, 2001 was Richt’s first year.
Secondly in 2001 and 2006-If memory serves me correct, I do not believe we had the quality and
depth upfront that we have this year,
Thirdly, I believe Joe Cox is better prepared than David Green in 2001, and a better quarter-back, period
than Joe tereshinski in 2006.
SOUTHGADAWG88
August 12th, 2009
9:49 pm
For the last time comedy my point is depth is good.. true but there is a reason a guy is not the starter..you can dance around it all night but you can not show me anywhere FLA lost that kind of talent and just kept pushing on.Didn’t happen.. OK all this talent is there..drop Spikes,Tebow and One of the Mincy kids for the season how far do you think FLA goes?.
comedydogs....
August 12th, 2009
9:50 pm
23 days and change…..
atlantadave
August 12th, 2009
9:52 pm
Bradley…you are a pompous A$$.Your W/L picks for Georgia have absolutely no logic behind them.You spew them out like you researched each team throughly.True football fans can see that the only thing you are concerned about is getting as many hits on this blog as possible to justify your exsistence to your boss. Thats why you will never be taken seriously as a sports writer and eventually be cast asided for somebody far more competent.If you could logically state reasons behind each of your picks we might be able to agree with you…..but you can’t and will never admit that you know nothing about any team in the SEC.Please go cover NBA womens basketball…..thats right up your ally…. and leave college football to somebody far more capable.
comedydogs....
August 12th, 2009
9:54 pm
no worse than 10 wins. What you are missing is that Will Hill could start for UGA right freakin now. Ask Mark Bradley his opinion. Call 680 in the morning and ask them. They are GA guys. They will tell you in a heartbeat that Munroe and Hill would start at UGA this year, but at UF, they back up. The reason they don’t start is because their are two guys a little bit better in front of them that start and get most of the reps, but that doesn’t mean they aren’ starting material. That is why UF had 3 safties on the preseason all sec. Hill played as much as anyone last year. he just wasn’t labeled the starter. You can dance around it all night long all you want, but depth is a huge factor and UF’s depth is much better than UGA’s. Nobody is arguing that the starter is the more ready/experienced one, but don’t think that means that the backup isn’t equally as good. I
Saint Simons
August 12th, 2009
9:55 pm
M Brandley is pathetic
Mr INCREDIBLE
August 12th, 2009
9:57 pm
UGA will upset Ok state 36-33….Book it !
I wish they could upset Florida though !!!
LSU and GaTech will be close , if we have a good running game going.
Lane Kiffin….what an idiot
comedydogs....
August 12th, 2009
9:58 pm
atlantadave, tell us why he is wrong and I expect logic. Give me a breakdown of UGA’s schedule and explain the outcomes. I’ll be waiting. We can go game by game ifyou’d like.
First up…..@ Oklahoma State……tell me who will win and why. I will respond because I have UGA losing this one
UGA Grad '08
August 12th, 2009
9:59 pm
sorry thought my first post at 9:10 didn’t go through
UGA Grad '08
August 12th, 2009
9:59 pm
sorry didn’t mean to post twice
comedydogs....
August 12th, 2009
10:02 pm
don’t let it happen again….j/k
Tim Tebow
August 12th, 2009
10:02 pm
comedydogs, I need you to just come and hold me now. That Ole Miss loss still hurts and I’m crying a river of gator teers. Please come hold me. I need to be held righte now as I sob. You know gator football better than I do so I’m sure Urbin would not mind if we spend the night together in my dorm room. Ther is plenty of kleenex tissue for you and me. Let’s cry together. I love to cry when I lose. I even cry to the meedia.
SOUTHGADAWG88
August 12th, 2009
10:05 pm
Maybe Hill would start maybe not…I’m not buying the hype… some of you guys are going to be shocked in 09.It’s college football I wouldn’t expect anything less.
Buck Strickland
August 12th, 2009
10:06 pm
Thanks Mark! Best article you’ve ever written. Dawg fans everywhere rejoice!
Now please do us a favor. If we’re lucky enough to pull out a few wins, DO NOT write a new article about how you were wrong. If we go into Jacksonville with a hint of chance, DO NOT change your prediction. Just realize that you are the Jinx Man. If you get the urge to throw praise UGA’s way, just reconsider and start talking about how Tech has turned the corner and Obama’s health care plan is a lock to pass. Many thanks.
TampaGator
August 12th, 2009
10:06 pm
SOUTHGEORGIADAWG…I must say, you are hard to reason with, my friend. The ‘07 Gators did not have any depth, and that is one of the main reasons (other than they were very young, mostly Fresh. and Sophs on tha team) that they lost 4 games that year…and one of the main reasons they won the ‘06 and ‘08 National Titles and one of the main reasons they will be so good this year. My point, Georgia did not have the talent depth to replace the starters that were lost to injury. Florida did last year, and they have even more depth this year. And, you are right about Tebow and Spikes not being able to be replaced last year. But Georgia did not have injured “Tebow or Spikes” type players out of the game last year other than, maybe Owens the DT. But you have to have more than one good DT to be a championship caliber team. Oklahoma lost a starting DT in the NC game last year but the two backups were just as good. That is my point. But I am not going to keep on with this debate. You are not getting the point and do not wish to get the point. Georgia simply has more depth this year and will have even more next year and the year after…and will be a lot better as a result. Last year, Georgia did not have the depth to be a top tier team…period. Florida did and still does. Enough said, believe it or not. It is your choice. Reason combined with logic beats emotion and loyalty every time, my friend.
Tim Tebow
August 12th, 2009
10:08 pm
UGA made me cry in 2007 (sniff, wipe). That defense takkled me so hard. It was not fare!!!!
comedydogs....
August 12th, 2009
10:11 pm
88, dude…you are hard-headed bro. You obviously don’t understand how depth works and honestly I am tired of explaining it. Keep dreaming and use zero logic and it will be you that is upset in a couple of months
comedydogs....
August 12th, 2009
10:12 pm
all that matters is 08 buddy and UGA did not make him cry. I guess CMR ran out of gimmicks for that game. He tried to rally the troups against Tech to start the 4th qtr, but that didn’t work and it was you that was crying for sure that day…bbwwaahahahahaaha
Tim Tebow
August 12th, 2009
10:15 pm
Pl-pl-pleeze don’t treet me like that, comedydogs. Pleeze don’t be mad at me. We can make up. I have Urbin’s credit card so I can take you anywere you want to go in Ganesville. I just want you to tell me that you love me and just jold me. I have to go cry some more now. By.
comedydogs....
August 12th, 2009
10:19 pm
Do you think you are funny?…just curious?
TampaGator
August 12th, 2009
10:31 pm
Also SOUTHGEORGIADAWG…you keep making references back to the ‘07 Gator team as if that team is like the current Gator team. It isn’t by a long shot. The Gators could not block Owens (but mostly the outside linebackers who blized on almost every play and Tebow couldn’t handle it and did not know how to handle it at the time) because the OL was made up of mostly fresh. and sophs. and had absolutely no debth (again). This year, Florida has a top line OL with 3 potential All-Americans in the Pouncey twins at the G posiitions and Carl Johnson at the OT postion. Matt Patchan, a rising soph, will make a run at the all-SEC second team at the other OT position. And the redshirt fresh. C, Robey, is a future all-conference player as well. Plus, the backups at all the OL positions are nearly as good as the starters. That is what you have to have to be a great team and the Gators have it. And the DL is 3-deep with very talented players at every single postion. The same at LB. The Gators could lose the 2-deep players at both safety postions and still put 3rd stringers that on the field that would start for many of the SEC teams. FS – Wright, Hill, Evans SS – Black, Munroe, Finley. The same is true at CB where Janoris Jenkins and Joe Haden are backed up by two former starters (Wondy-Pierre and Anderson) and they are backed up by super redshirt freshman Jeremy Brown and Adrian Bushnell. MY PONT AGAIN….you have to have really good players on your second and third teams that can step up and play if you want to be a top tier team in college football. You will have injuries, and you have to win anyway. That is what great teams do.
TampaGator
August 12th, 2009
10:34 pm
Hey “Tim Tebow”…here is a dare for you. Walk up to the real Tim Tebow, all 6′3″ and 245 lbs. of solid muscle of him, and say that stuff. But Tim, knowing the real Tim Tebow, would just pity you and say a prayer for you…not pound on your head as you should and do deserve.