Braves should take a trade holiday, not trade for Holliday
Frank Wren is a man in a hurry. That’s his nature. He walks fast. He’s forever fiddling with his BlackBerry. His predecessor gave the impression of having all the time in the world, but this general manager is always in motion. (Perhaps that’s due to their backgrounds: John Schuerholz started as a school teacher, while Wren was a minor-league center fielder.)
Wren’s default mode is to try something. No GM was more aggressive over the winter, and now we arrive at the fortnight when GMs feel duty-bound not just to try something but to do anything. And surely the temptation of Wren will be massive as July winds down.
His team is six games out of first place in a division where nothing is settled. The Phillies are so desperate for pitching they signed Pedro Martinez, whose fastball is no longer fast. The Mets are hurting. The Marlins are nothing special. The imp perched on Wren’s shoulder keeps whispering, “One more move and you can win this thing.”
And Wren is, by his very nature, disposed to feel that way already. But a GM gets paid not just to listen to his gut (or an impertinent imp). He has to heed his head. The best course for the 2009 Braves is to sit tight.
Yes, it’s tantalizing to imagine Matt Holliday in the Braves’ outfield in August and September. Temptation always comes in a pretty package. But the Braves weakened themselves over the long haul in that moment of Schuerholz weakness in 2007, and one of the key issues now — should Yunel Escobar be traded? — would have a different set of dynamics had not Elvis Andrus been sent to Texas in the Mark Teixeira deal.
The A’s, who employ Holliday for the moment, want prospects. Would you trade Jordan Schafer and Kris Medlen, say, for two months of a diminished Boras-represented slugger? Would you give up Escobar, too? Would you do it if, as Dave O’Brien reports, the A’s might throw in the 34-year-old shortstop Orlando Cabrera as a sweetener? The answer to all of the above should be no.
Loading ...Escobar is younger and, at the moment, better than Holliday, and he’s under contract beyond October 2009. And the Braves have made so many kid-laden trades — Teixeira being the glaring example, but Tyler Flowers was dispatched for Javier Vazquez and Gorkys Hernandez for Nate McLouth — that their farm system needs time to reset itself.
And there’s no assurance Holliday would swing the 2009 division race any more than Teixeira did in 2007. (Albert Pujols would, but he’s not apt to be available.) There’s no great difference-maker to be had. This is baseball, where the difference-makers are starting pitchers, and the Braves have enough of those.
In a way, losing four games in the standings over the 10 days before the All-Star break did Wren a favor. Were the Braves still two games back, the pressure on their GM to make one last trade would have been unbearable. Six games out is different. You’re close enough to win but not so close you feel you’ve let down your club if you don’t do something, anything.
And that’s good. Because this isn’t the July to do something, anything. This is the July to assess options but to hoard resources for what seems a bright future. That voice on his shoulder? Wren needs to whip out a can of Imp-B-Gone. I believe they sell it at Wal-Mart.
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Guides
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2009 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
296 comments Add your comment
matt_T
July 15th, 2009
11:04 am
Its not much of an upgrade either, Escobar is OPSing the same as Holiday.
RF is already upgraded with the addition by subraction and Infante will be back soon, and its been a while, but he was the best hitter the first part of the season.
Sting 'em Buzz
July 15th, 2009
11:06 am
The team will still not win with MH. They are destined to spend the year in mediocrity.
Mike Jay
July 15th, 2009
11:06 am
Could not agree more. It’s ok to rebuild for a few seasons after a 14 year playoff run.
Reid Adair
July 15th, 2009
11:07 am
This would be almost like the Teixeira deal. Both Holliday and Cabrera are short-term answers unless Liberty Media is willing to spend and sign them to extensions.
Wren needs to JUST SAY NO.
The_Superhoo
July 15th, 2009
11:15 am
Mark,
I DEFINATELY agree. However, there is one case where I’d be ok dumping Escobar. If we can do what other teams have done to us over the last 3 years, and get prospects for him: DO IT.
This season is done. Mets are going to be healthy at some point, just in time to choke the Division away to the Phillies. We’ll flirt with .500 the rest of the season.
SimpleDawg
July 15th, 2009
11:18 am
Hey Frankie,
Please STOP TRADING HOME GROWN YOUNG TALENT FOR INFERIOR SHORT TERM TALENT.
Why the rush to trade Escobar? Trade Kelly Johnson? YES. Escobar? NO.
STOP TALKING ABOUT TRADING ESCOBAR, it only retards his play by screwing up his head.
If you just have to trade someone, trade Gonzalez and Moylan for a hitter….that would addition by subtraction. We probably have 10 pitchers in the minor who could pitch and have a 8.00+ ERA…..maybe even less.
The Frenchy trade will turn out to be a big mistake. Let’s don’t make more mistakes under the guise of “improvement”. Just say NO.
Smart Jay
July 15th, 2009
11:20 am
NO! The Frenchy/Church trade is a good one because he wasn’t coming back anyway (and aren’t we likely able to keep Church for less than Frenchy?).
This trade makes no sense as it won’t improve the club much for this season, and will, in fact, only hurt long term.
I guess you could spin it as getting rid of a problem (Escobar), and upgrading the outfield (but, Holliday’s stats in Oakland are probably about what we could expect in Turner Field – rid of the Coors effect). You can probably rid yourself of Schaefer if McClouth is the long-term CF, and maybe the Braves might consider resigning Cabrera if there is no other SS available end of 2009.
Plus, there’s the issue of money. How much more are the Braves into if they have to pay Holliday/Cabrera?
I suppose this really all boils down to how much does Bobby/Wren want to get rid of Escobar.
Frank
July 15th, 2009
11:22 am
As the long as the rebuilding doesn’t turn into the disaster that is the Pittsburgh Pirates.
Smart Jay
July 15th, 2009
11:24 am
BTW – Yunel is not OPS’g Holliday’s numbers. Holliday’s OPS is .922, Yunel’s is .789. But, Cabrera’s is .683. So, Cabrera us closer to Yunel than Yunel to Holliday.
Herschel Talker
July 15th, 2009
11:27 am
Mark – you are on fire lately, and this is your best one yet. There is no way to succeed this year without compromising the future. There is no Melvin Nieves for Fred McGriff coming our way. Be content with a .500 year and retool for next year with another bat in the offseason. Forget the quick fix. Quick fixes get you Mark Teixeira for 4 studs. Perhaps the Teixeira deal was a gamble worth taking, but when it doesn’t work, you see the disaster in terms of what you let get away.
Juan
July 15th, 2009
11:31 am
Everyone thinks Escobar is a problem. When it is a problem to be leading the team in hits, RBI, and RISP?
NC Braves Fan
July 15th, 2009
11:32 am
Mark – what if the Braves did something a little more modest, like trade Kotchman and acquire Nick Johnson from Washington (not necessarily in the same transaction)? Johnson has more pop in his bat (look at the number of doubles, OPS and OBP relative to Koch), is a FA at the end of the year and only making $5.5 million.
Not saying the Braves would necessarily do this trade specifically – but something along those lines.
Bama Aaron
July 15th, 2009
11:33 am
I completely agree Mark. Don’t do a thing. And especially don’t trade a talented SS for an over-hyped OF. Holliday is not the answer…for anyone. I think this season with the A’s is proving he was a product of Coors Field. Stand pat Mr. Wren unless you can find someone to take Moylan and Gonzalez off our hands. We need two bullpen arms that Bobby C. hasn’t overused yet.
On a side note totally unrelated Mark B. can you ask your buddy Barnhart to look at how he uploaded his blog today. I’ve been able to read him each day until today…today he’s blocked because my IS detects it as NCAA related and they block anything NCAA.
jeffrey d
July 15th, 2009
11:34 am
I just noticed that Elvis Andrus is hitting .253 and has an unsightly and unGodly OPS of .666
Mark Bradley
July 15th, 2009
11:36 am
Why, thanks, Herschel.
Mike Jay makes a nice point: It’s OK to take a few months to rebuild. If you never do, you never get rebuilt. You’re always chasing instead.
Floyd
July 15th, 2009
11:36 am
On the surface, this trade seems a bad idea. But one does have to wonder why Yunel is always on the block, right? Look a little closer and it grows increasingly apparent that Yunel has some serious attitude problems that may be proving cancerous in the clubhouse.
We only get to see glimpes of it from afar, but one might assume it’s far worse than we realize. As for Yunel’s potential, he’s been in the league, what, four years?
Guys, at some point there is no more potential – you are what you are. And Yunel is proving to be a very good hitter, an occasionally spectacular fielder with a problem making routine plays while falling asleep at the wheel and he’s a horrific baserunner. Given that Atlanta has been trying to ship Yunel since last year (if reports are to be believed), then shouldn’t that tell us something about him?
Mark Bradley
July 15th, 2009
11:39 am
Yes, but Elvis is starting at shortstop as a rookie for a team contending for first place. Were he still here, the Braves could well have dealt Escobar for something of lasting value.
And Bama, if I might ask a technical question: Are you using Internet Explorer?
The_Superhoo
July 15th, 2009
11:40 am
@jeffrey d:
heh. heh heh. un”GOD”ly OPS of .666
Mark Bradley
July 15th, 2009
11:40 am
I’m not so sure Yunel is on the block. (I was sure Jeff Francoeur was on the block.) I think the Braves, as Dave O’Brien suggested yesterday, are in listening mode. That’s a bit different than, “We gotta get rid of this guy PDQ!”
Don
July 15th, 2009
11:42 am
The big mystery is why the Braves keep talking about this trade or this addition etc. and do not address the real problem – Bobby Cox. And an even greater mystery – why the baseball writers protect him and (like Bobby Cox) do not seem to understand what out main offensive run production problem is – not working the count – not making the opposing pitcher throw a lot of pitches – guaranteeing terrible run production. The Braves are next to last in all of baseball in average number of pitches seen per at bat. This is typical Cox – he has never taught, emphasized, demanded this. Do the Braves baseball writers who ignore this and protect Cox not understand the necessity of working the count, making the opposing pitchers thow a lot of pitches – enabiling your hitters to see what the pitcher has, adjust to the pitcher, get better pitches to hit, tire him out both within innings and for the game, get into their weak middle relief and other advantages. This is absurd. And this is just his overall failure relating to having his hitters make the right approach — To say nothing of his being a very poor handler of the bullpen, and a a verry poor in game strategy manager. He won the 14 divisions by having an All Star Pitching Staff so dominant and far far superior to every other team in the league that made it almost impossible to lose the Division over the long 162 game regular season schedule – and even with this, he usually just barely won the Division – and then only 1 W.S. It is amazing that even with this dominant Pitching, he could only win 1 W.S. It is beyond belief that baseball writers aparently do not understand the absolute necessity for working the count and making the opposing pitchers throw a lot of pitches if you are going to have good run production – and the fact that Bobby Cox seems to do little or nothing to develop this.
Jeff R
July 15th, 2009
11:45 am
It’s absurd to even consider trading Escobar if the the only concern is his temperament. The guy’s a Latino and he has some fire. Good managers need to cope with that and squeeze the best results possible out of that player.
If the problem with Escobar is something the team isn’t making public, then AJC needs to do some digging and find out.
But I do have a possible deal. If Wren wants to onload Escobar, send himn to the Rangers for Andrus, Feliz, Salty and Harrison.
What about it?
Marshall
July 15th, 2009
11:50 am
I dont think you all understnad what his attitude is doing to the clubhouse. Yunel is like a cancer that not even chip can help with. If Wren believes Holliday can improve his numbers in Atlanta it would be a great deal for several reasons, A) Wren would have made Oakland pick up a chunk of Holliday’s salary so in essence they wouldn’t have paid alot for him, B) It is definately a defensive upgrade from the sluggish liability of Garrett Anderson in Left Field. So all the numbers are equal, you can’t put numbers up to hustle and great play. So if they do pull on the deal fans may be mad but I doubt that will last if the Braves make a good run at the Phillies, I mean look at who they had to go digging for to bulk up their rotation. The Braves could feast off PEDRO!
Bank Walker, Texas Ranger
July 15th, 2009
11:51 am
We should never trade with Oakland because the A’s are trying to dump salaries while aquiring younger players. That is what the Braves should be doing. Braves need to stop chasing the dream of a division in 2009 and look toward ‘10 or ‘11.
Marshall
July 15th, 2009
11:52 am
Yet, don’t worry the Cardinals are rumored to be trying to make a deal for Escobar now, and the Holliday/Cabrera Deal is supposedly off!
Ron E.
July 15th, 2009
11:52 am
Yes let’s never trade prospects to try to win. Let’s not try to get McGriff or Denny Neagle or Gary Sheffield or JD Drew or Mark Teixeira or Javier Vasquez. Instead let’s just hold onto to every single A player and ignore the fact that the vast majority of them don’t amount to anything if they ever even make the big leagues and ignore the fact that Chipper and Derek Lowe will be one year closer to retirement next year and Gonzalez and Soriano will be free agents and Peter Moylan will be entering the Blaine Boyer phase of his career thanks to being overused. Nosirree, the Braves should make no effort at all to try to win this year in a very winnable division because Mark Bradley can guarantee us whatever single A player we might trade will be totally awesome 3-4 years from now.
Bama Aaron
July 15th, 2009
11:52 am
Mark, Yes I am using Explorer. Is there a setting I can turn off? I doubt my IS will let me install a new browser.
DirtyDawg
July 15th, 2009
11:53 am
I certainly don’t know what it will take to get Yunel’s head screwed on straight – assuming that’s the problem – but before I would dump that talent I’d figure out something, anything. Somebody compared his stats to Holliday’s which got me thinking, maybe Yunel needs to transition to RF – he’s got the big arm, he’s faster than JF was/is, maybe the position wouldn’t mean as much wear and tear on his bod as the constantly moving and diving position of shortstop. That way we can platoon Church with Diaz (a better position for his left-field equipped arm) in left and Let the Loaf Leave.
tjhook
July 15th, 2009
11:53 am
Can Escobar play anything besides short? I’m wondering that since we don’t have a replacement for Chipper presently. I’d like to see the team bring back Adam Laroche (there’s your home run hitter behind McCann and Chipper). Maybe we can interest the Pirates in Escobar and Kotchman and ask a third team to join in just in case they want to move Jack Wilson or Escobar.
Marshall
July 15th, 2009
11:54 am
Maybe you think the 1991 team should have dumped too, instead making a run from 9 back? Teams 5 6 back aren’t out of it, especially when the team your making a run at has had pitching problems, and not knowing what the newcomer to their staff will be able to do. By July 28th if they haven’t made up any ground I would agree they should sell. At this point if they make up even one game I say go get a bat and see what they can do.
raymond
July 15th, 2009
11:54 am
if we deal Escobar, who plays SS next year after Cabrera leaves ? The Braves should move any impending free agent they are not going to offer arbitration. They can’t let anyone like Gonzalez leave for nothing.
Maybe if they signed more draft picks they’d have more options down the road. Everything is done on the cheap.
Mrs. Chanandler Bong
July 15th, 2009
11:55 am
I say no to the Escobar trade. I think many of his attitude problems have been a byproduct of tempermental youth. I like how he contributes to the game (minus a few WTF fielding errors.) Unless Albert Pujols or Dustin Pedroia wanted to come wear a Braves uni, I say no.
Bank Walker, Texas Ranger
July 15th, 2009
11:56 am
Jeff R, you would have to be CRAZY to make that deal. If Yunel had a contract that had only a year reamining, then they might go for that.
Bama Aaron
July 15th, 2009
11:56 am
One other comment about this supposed Escobar deal. I do think there is more there than the general public knows. But even with that you can’t do a deal for him without getting a SS back in return. Even in dealing with Oakland Cabrera is not an adequate replacement IMO.
I don’t keep up with other clubs systems much but I can’t think of another team right now that has a SS to burn to make the trade without wanting some of our prospects that we don’t need to give up.
Mrs. Chanandler Bong
July 15th, 2009
11:59 am
TJHook, please tell me you were joking about LaRoche.
chc4
July 15th, 2009
11:59 am
Any trade for Holliday would be insanely stupid. The Braves are going nowhere this year. What Wren should do his trade his 2 best assets — Javy Vazquez and Mike Gonzalez (if healthy). This organization won’t win until 2011 at least so we need to build towards that. Javy and Gonzo will be long gone by then.
Preston Hannatized
July 15th, 2009
12:00 pm
His power numbers are down, his homeruns that used to jump off his bat are outs to the track. Maybe all those high-stat years are suspect now. But enough about Chipper. We don’t need Holliday either.
The_Superhoo
July 15th, 2009
12:03 pm
Let’s dispell some errant thinking on some of those the Braves have dealt recently:
Elvis Andrus – .253 BA, .315 OBP, .666 OPS … Yawn. We don’t need that.
Jarrod Salty – .244 BA, .318 OBP, .707 OPS … Meh.
Bank Walker, Texas Ranger
July 15th, 2009
12:07 pm
chc4, you are absolutely right. ‘11 is the key. Now I don’t figure Chipper will be much help at that time. Maybe we can send him to a winner this year and pickup something for 2011.
AppalachiaBrave
July 15th, 2009
12:09 pm
I like the new scrappers brought to the team…The Braves needed some of those type guys. But don’t trade away the future…again. Frank needs to chill out and let them play now….I like Conrad, Mcloth,Prado,Escobar….Scrapper types. Real baseball players. That is what we need more of….THe Tex trade was terrible, lets learn from that!
Ken Stallings
July 15th, 2009
12:11 pm
This would be a disaster trade, on the scale of the Len Barker trade with Cleveland that sent Brett Butler and Brooks Jacoby! Escobar is a young and somewhat irascible player, and sometimes inconsistent. But on a purely objective scale, he’s an equal hitter (slightly better) than Matt Holliday.
Further, the Braves won’t be able to retain any player represented by Boras and is eligible for free agency after the season. This is the sole reason why the A’s are dangling Holliday. The A’s want to unload him for prospects because they don’t want to negotiate a contract extension with Boras.
It is time for the Braves to build from within and stop mortgaging the future. The McClouth trade was an excellent move because of who we got and his long term contract status. Such a trade for Holliday would reverse that previous gain and undermine the team for this year and years to follow.
snes
July 15th, 2009
12:15 pm
I agree no to Holliday and no to trading Escobar. If Wren really wants to make a move why not trade Kotchman and bring up Barbaro Canizares from Gwinnett? Maybe get a low level prospect for Kotchman and Canizares is only hitting .323 10HR 47RBIs and a .387 OBP and was in the Futures game in St.Louis with Jason Heyward. It might be a step back defensively but it would be a huge step forward offensively.
chc4
July 15th, 2009
12:20 pm
Barbaro Canizares is a 30 year AAA player. May as well stick Freddie Freeman in there and let him learn. Kotchman would be fine if we had any power in the lineup. But we don’t so he’s not.
John OTC
July 15th, 2009
12:20 pm
Don’t forget about the “move” we are absolutely going to make. TIM HUDSON will be back in one form or another.
Go Tim!
jimmy
July 15th, 2009
12:20 pm
get a bat,20 out 25 of the top prospects are pitchers
Mark Bradley
July 15th, 2009
12:21 pm
There’s no market for Kotchman. Wish there were.
cgmd
July 15th, 2009
12:25 pm
Kotchman and Medlen for Adrian Gonzalez?
chc4
July 15th, 2009
12:26 pm
If there were a DF (designated fielder) in the AL Kotch would have loads of value!
Atticus
July 15th, 2009
12:28 pm
Mark, one question:
I agree that you don’t trade strength for strength. But why should I trust that the “young guys” will turn out?
This organization has developed one all star (Mac, and I would contest he didn’t need developing) since Chipper came up over ten years ago. Lots of mediocre talent from numerous guys that have been strong in the minors. Schafer and Francoeur are just two examples. ONE all star in almost 15 years. To me, I have no confidence that Freeman or Heyward will take this organization back to the playoffs.
Bank Walker, Texas Ranger
July 15th, 2009
12:29 pm
This deal would be like trading Scarlett Johanssen for Catherine Zeta-Jones. Sure Scarlett is a pain now and Catherine is more experienced and probably more attractive a couple of years ago but eventually your gonna wish you had went younger and want Scarlett back.
AGTFan
July 15th, 2009
12:37 pm
The Braves should be in listening and waiting mode. Wait and see if Church is really an upgrade. If yes, stand pat. If no, listen to offers for Chipper, Vasquez, Anderson, Lowe, anyone who can bring in good prospects to restock the farm and maybe be competitive again in a few years. When you consider yourself to be competitive because the other teams in your division suck, you’re just fooling yourself. If Church really is an upgrade, then the team as configured might make the playoffs. The quality of the starting pitching means they might stand a chance in a couple playoff series, so you don’t trade anyone. One more player isn’t going to make a difference either way. Don’t deplete the farm for the illusion that they can contend.
Ross
July 15th, 2009
12:40 pm
Boy do I agree here. I would do anything possible to trade Kotchman for a backup catcher, put McCann on 1st and get it over with, make Ross the starting catcher. Escobar will eventually adjust to the brain-altering effects of hair dye and will resume his upward path. The Braves’ major issue at this point is getting a good defensive catcher in the line-up day to day. McCann is just not there defensively since his eye problems – and really mentally I think. He’s too good a hitter to spend his career on his haunches.
-drl
The_Superhoo
July 15th, 2009
12:40 pm
Bank Walker, Texas Ranger:
HAHA! I like it. And I definately prefer Scarlett. Yum.
The_Superhoo
July 15th, 2009
12:41 pm
Ross:
A resounding NO to McCann at 1B. Can you imagine him trying to dig one out? Let alone try to make a defensive play at first? Yuck.
Mark Bradley
July 15th, 2009
12:42 pm
Regarding ScarJo (as the tabloids call her) and Zeta the Man-Eater (as the British tabs used to call her … wasn’t it you, Bank Walker, who got that whole Kirstie Alley/Melanie Griffith discussion started the other day?
Ray Pugh
July 15th, 2009
12:44 pm
If it were as easy as “don’t trade prospects!” or “trade them for proven players!”, any of you knuckleheads could be GMs, which obviously isn’t the case. Successful GMs balance the needs of the future with the needs of the present, and work accordingly. Escobar for Holliday would be dumb, but the idea of getting him for other players not in our long-term plans is not so dumb. We have 3-5 players in our organization (especially pitchers) that Billy Beane would covet who wouldn’t cost us Escobar…
59bulldawg
July 15th, 2009
12:45 pm
Don, I’ve been saying that for years. If you want more proof check out his years in Toronto. Mediocre manager at best! Now I can’t honestly say he’s the main problem this year because I really don’t know. I’ve only rarely been able to watch them on the tube this season . . . thanks to TBS. And my work schedule makes it foolish to buy the MLB package. But for years I’ve thought most folks in Atlanta and around the league have drank the Kool-Aid on Cox . . . giving him a free pass because of those 14 glory years. Truth be told . . . with the talent he managed . . . he should have won more rings than he did. And before I get ripped here I know the man doesn’t play but his personnel decisions (especially the inappropriate times when he takes a pitcher out or leaves him in)are what I’m talkling about. But . . . griping about Bobby doesn’t solve our immediate problem . . . and that’s primarily more pop in the bat . . . from what I can gather reading and seeing the handful of games I’ve seen this year. I think for the most part the pitching staff has been rebuilt and that we’re not far away from having a very good team. As much as I would miss the guy, we might ought to try to get something for Chipper why we still can and deal one or two of our relief pitchers. I wouldn’t give up on Schafer until I’m sure that he can’t play one of the corner field positions. He’s going to hit again at this level . . . either here or somewhere else and I hope it’s here. But I wouldn’t do too much this season and ruin the future in the process.
AlabamaBrave
July 15th, 2009
12:46 pm
Mark, is there anyway the team would consider making a move for LaRoche and/or Freddy Sanchez
Bank Walker, Texas Ranger
July 15th, 2009
12:49 pm
No, somebody else got that started, I just piled on. Future topic: Berman and McCarver are the worst.
Bank Walker, Texas Ranger
July 15th, 2009
12:50 pm
I believe NC Brave got it going.
Supes
July 15th, 2009
12:50 pm
Mark, the answer is a resounding NO.
Holliday isn’t half the player he was when he played in Colorado. Offensive numbers down across the board. He’ll bolt after the season. Scott Boras is his agent. So everything points to “NO to Holliday”. Would he be an upgrade over Anderson or Church? Most likely. Will he push this CURRENT braves team over the edge to overtake the Phillies. NO.
If Mark Texiera couldn’t do it (and no offense to Matt Holliday), Tex is 2 times the offensive PLAYER right now that Matt is, what does that tell you?
Braves if they DO trade have to be SELLERS.
They have to make up their minds and sign either Gonzo or Soriano to a contract extension as soon as possible and DEAL the other to a contending team for a top tier prospect. That’s what a closer will fetch at this time of the year. A team desperate for bullpen help like the Yankees, I’m sure they’d love to have Gonzo.
Then, depends on how Hudson does this month, you look to deal Javy Vazquez BUT ONLY if you end up with 1 top tier pitching prospect in the return package.
Last but not least, if there is ANY interest in Garret Anderson (to an AL team, similar to the Kotsay situation last year), you trade him, let him go and play Matt Diaz in LF.
Mark Bradley
July 15th, 2009
12:52 pm
I stand corrected, Bank Walker. My apologies to NC Brave as well.
And I’ll have to admit I’m a fan of Ms. Scarlett’s body of work.
Mark Bradley
July 15th, 2009
12:54 pm
And Atticus makes a good point: Organizations often overrate their prospects. (The Dodgers were famous for doing it. Remember Greg Brock? Candy Maldonado?) But an organization can’t, on the other hand, let its farm system dry up. That’s what has happened to the Mets and why Omar Minaya has to keep buying players.
Chief
July 15th, 2009
12:58 pm
JEFF FRANCOEUR HAS JUST BEEN TRADED!!
NC Braves Fan
July 15th, 2009
12:59 pm
Hey, I just played straight man on the whole Kirsty-Melanie thing, Bank! I believe that Gov. Clinton Tyree gets the award for taking us down that road.
What does he win, anyway?
Ramblin Wrecker
July 15th, 2009
1:00 pm
The names being thrown around as potential trade bait make no sense to me. Yunel Escobar (the most valuable name) is not at peak value because everybody knows the Braves wish his personality and focus were more Brave like. So anybody coming calling will try to get Escobar for less than he is worth baseball-wise. Jordan Schafer would not get in a trade what his eventual value would warrant. He hit .200 at the big league level and has a wrist injury. Kris Medlen has value, but it is diminished by his current role a lack of a showcasing of his real potential by languishing as the mop up guy in the bullpen. (Sidenote: given that Moylan, Gonzalez, O’Flarety are among the league leaders in appearances you’d think Cox would let Medlen get his feet wet in a meaningful situation once in a while.)
Mark Bradley is right. The Braves are best to stand pat, if these players mentioned are what they are hanging out as bait. Escobar is better than Matt Holliday right now AND he plays a premium defensive position (and plays it well, mental farts notwithstanding). So you would add nothing offensively and would take away defensively. The only logical trade piece is Javier Vasquez and unless you’re guaranteed to move the meter in the NL East race by who you get in return, why make the deal?
Give this new mix of starters a chance to mesh and see what they can do. Martin Prado is awesome and he’s just recently been a starter. Ryan Church will deliver better at bats than Jeff Francoeur, and that could extend innings that used to die as soon as Francoeur dug in at the plate. Then you’ve got Infante on his way back in the next month. You’ll have a whole half season of Tommy Hanson, added to what we know Lowe can do and what Vasquez, JJ have been doing. I think this team can finally surface and go on a run. Then just see what happens.
tvsportscaster
July 15th, 2009
1:03 pm
Mark, do you have a quota of how many blogs one person can do in one day?
You did one at 4:55 this morning, by the way who’s up that time of morning and now you do this one, and I suppose my mid-afternoon, you’ll do another one on some other subject. For god’s sakes man take some freakin time off.
Wink
July 15th, 2009
1:06 pm
Braves must get a bat in any trade, but it has to enhance the future of this team. The young guys we have brought up are down & dirty ball players, the equal of Escobar in temperment on the field; they are confident in their ability & work counts. We need more of the same added to this team. We are actually scoring runs at the top of our order. However, Chipper & Anderson, are not providing any pop in the lineup. Chipper has only 1 home run in his last 107+ at bats. Anderson, just seems lazy and uninterested. I like Conrad, Mcloth,Prado,and Escobar because they can manufacture runs, but they need a Coach with more fire then Bobby Cox. He is just old school and will ride with veterans to the detriment of the team.
Regarding trading Escobar, I only see the player, the one that leads this team in hits, drives in runs, plays adequate defense with a lively arm; admittedly, he does make some ocassional miscues….but he is young. Being young will get you noticed on a team of veterans. However, his temperment is why he plays with such confidence in his ability. The speaks no English, how much trouble can he be in the clubhouse. If that is the problem, no one can understand him, then it could just be perception, that he has not taken the time to learn English. Barring that is the problem, I can live with it, I like the player on the field; I consider him a cornerstone or foundation on which to build.
hem o'roid
July 15th, 2009
1:10 pm
This whole team sux, just show it at different intervals.
fieldofdreams
July 15th, 2009
1:10 pm
After the Texeira disaster/ trauma/ plague, only someone’s who taken leave of their senses is considering Holliday. If so, he better come dirt cheap. We’ll flounder without a reliable RBI guy, though; perhaps there’s a AAA player with break out potential available?
Bank Walker, Texas Ranger
July 15th, 2009
1:10 pm
MB, totally agree on the Dodgers, they got the benefit from inflated stats in the minors due to the PCL being a hitters league. If we are to trade, trade away age and expiring contracts (that’s the point of Zeta-Jones). As for ScarJo’s body of work………incredible.
Jammie
July 15th, 2009
1:12 pm
The Braves would be crazy to trade Escobar, I would support Furman Bisher idea of trading Chipper, if a team wants to take on his salary thinking he could put them over the top. Escobar has a bright future ahead of him. I remember Edgar Renteria raved about him when he played here, and he was in fact move because of Escobar’s brilliance. I seem to recall that a young Andruw Jones was called off the field by Bobby Cox early in his career, because in his opinion Andruw was not hustlng.
I wish Bobby would have done that to Kelly on a couple of occasions to show he is not biased.
nique
July 15th, 2009
1:12 pm
100% agree. Try to contend with what you’ve got now, and hope Chipper returns to form and Mac gets hot. If not this season, they should be in real good shape next year to contend if they keep this team and bring up a couple of young studs.
lazydawg
July 15th, 2009
1:15 pm
Mark you make a good point (but) if we don’t have to give up to much he is a game changing player that is a proven hitter .
Mark Bradley
July 15th, 2009
1:15 pm
To Mr. TVsportscaster: I actually did a list of FAQs regarding the blog regimen. Ordinarily it’s three a day, five days a week.
Mark Bradley
July 15th, 2009
1:17 pm
What does the Governor win for taking us down the Kirstie/Melanie road? The thanks of a grateful nation, I’d suggest.
Alan
July 15th, 2009
1:17 pm
Mark,
I agree with you about Holliday and Cabrera (very bad move for all kinds of reasons), but I can see a trade happening. At least two folks have mentioned reacquiring Adam LaRoche. That’s not a bad idea. He has much more power than Kotchman, and he’s almost as good defensively. How about this blockbuster: LaRoche, Freddy Sanchez, Jack Wilson and Ian Snell (now in the minors) for Kotchman, Kelly Johnson and Escobar? Wilson reminds me so much of Walt Weiss — a steady, sure-handed SS who’s pretty handy with the bat, too. Whatever happens (or doesn’t happen as the case may be), the Braves have to resist “giving away the farm” as they’ve done way too much of since they got J.D. Drew in the ‘03 offseason (if I remember correctly).
AndyC
July 15th, 2009
1:20 pm
Mark,
You had to fall back on the Tex trade again? Boy, that certainly has become the Atlanta sports writers crutch hasn’t it? Maybe you need to come up with some new material.
dap01
July 15th, 2009
1:26 pm
Everyone is wasting time and energy discussing Escobar as the problem of the Braves. We have a 1st baseman with 4 home runs, we just got rid of an outfielder who was one of the least productive rf in all of baseball history, we have NO team speed, we have no team power, our manager consistantly over uses certain relievers, we have a manager that would slow down an outfield of Vince Coleman, Otis Nixon and Carl Crawford! we have problems but having a SS with an attitude is the least of all the problems.
Again, we have a first baseman with 4 home runs!
Bank Walker, Texas Ranger
July 15th, 2009
1:27 pm
AndyC, if they make this deal he’ll have some new material. Tex trades don’t come along every day. Heck that trade was the best negative news story since the Len Barker deal and people still talk about that one and Atlanta only had a population of about 100,000 when that one took place.
AlabamaBrave
July 15th, 2009
1:28 pm
Nice post @ 1:26 dap01
Mac
July 15th, 2009
1:28 pm
What was that song, ” Hang on … help is on the way …”
The help will come in the offseason and from growing the kids in the minors to meet up with our already outstanding starting pitching. One step at a time.
Jack
July 15th, 2009
1:30 pm
C’mon Kotchman, tear it up in the second half. I believe in ya.
Garret Anderson
July 15th, 2009
1:30 pm
It doesn’t matter if the Braves trade or not because Bobby Cox would screw it up anyway. This guy has mismanaged the team for too long now. The Braves are under-achieving and they could at least have 5-7 more wins if managed properly. I am sick of them failing to score when a runner is on second and no outs, I am sick of Bobby Cox wearing the arms out in the bullpen, I am sick of Leo Mazzone not being the Braves pitching coach anymore, I am sick of Cox batting Mclouth leadoff when he leads the team in HR’S and RBI’S, I am sick of Chipper missing games for sprained toes or whatever weak excuse he has, I am sick of the AJC (except you Mark) not calling out Bobby Cox for his poor nanagement of the team, I am sick of idiots defending Cox based on his past (what has he done lately), I am sick of it all.
I’ll be at the game tonight.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 15th, 2009
1:31 pm
Excellent article. The Braves don’t need another Teixeira trade, gutting the farm system for a guy who is not going to put them over the top. And count me among those who don’t see the value in trading Escobar just for the sake of trading him.
Garret Anderson
July 15th, 2009
1:31 pm
I meant management for any smart-mouth.
rlinaug
July 15th, 2009
1:32 pm
I’d trade Esco for ScarJo in a skinny minute.
Sunshine
July 15th, 2009
1:33 pm
Who keeps bringing this idea up of trading Escobar, “The Donk!” Forget that lets trade Boobie!
Garret Anderson
July 15th, 2009
1:36 pm
I think a lot of this Escobar hate is crazy. Go ahead, trade him, and see how quick the Braves will fall. Diory Hernandez is a .200 hitter at best and you won’t get a better SS in return. Is that what you want starting everyday? If you trade Escobar, you are taking a step back at SS and the already weak offense will be even weaker. Dumb idea.
Phil
July 15th, 2009
1:36 pm
Don,
Good points about Cox. But when you have Dumb and Dumber (Cox and Wren) running this team, can you really expect anything different?
Mizzou Guru
July 15th, 2009
1:38 pm
The idea of trading Escobar for Holliday and Cabrera doesn’t seem to make any sense. First of all, the Braves are now a fairly frugal team and combined Holliday and Cabrera are making about $18M more than Escobar is making. It would seem to be financially impossible to make this trade. Also, Holliday seems to be fairly mediocre outside of Colorado and I don’t think he is as good as Escobar to begin with. Also, the Braves can hold Escobar for some period of time before he gets expensive – not true for Holliday. I don’t know how this can even be debatable. Frank Wren would be totally insane to even ponder this deal.
cdog
July 15th, 2009
1:38 pm
WHY NOT TRADE FOR HOLIDAY? STAND PAT AND KEEP LOSING? ANYTHING IS BETTER THAN WHAT WE GOT. TRADE FOR HOLIDAY OR ANY OTHER PLAYER THATS GOING TO MAKE US BETTER. THATS WHAT WRONG WITH THE BRAVES AND THE HAWKS, THEY STAND PAT AND EVERYONE ELSE BY-PASSES THEM
Bank Walker, Texas Ranger
July 15th, 2009
1:40 pm
dap01, right on, you were 5 for 5 on your points. rlinaug..considering her, um, body of work, it would need to be a 2 for 1 deal.
cdog
July 15th, 2009
1:40 pm
WE NEED TO STOP HOPING THAT JOE BLOW IS GOING TO START HITTING OR PITCHING THEY ARE EITHER GETTING THE JOB DONE OR THEY OR NOT. IF NOT, SHIP THEM OUT AND BRING PLAYERS WHO WILL GET IT DONE.
harry rand
July 15th, 2009
1:41 pm
The Frenchy trade was rediculous. Remember the lack of patience with Jermaine Dye and what kind of all-star career he’s had. I hope Jeff hits 40 homers and drives in 125 RBIs in the near future. Letting Tyler Flowers and Gorkys Hernandez get away sucks, learn by mistakes and leave the minors alone, quite frankly I’m somewhat surprised Hanson is still here.
Phil
July 15th, 2009
1:42 pm
cdog,
Does that go for the coaching staff as well? If they are not getting it done, can we ship them out?
david
July 15th, 2009
1:48 pm
You people sound like politicians.Your president and congress try to solve problems with writing checks they cannot cash.Trade/cut anderson,kotchman,and give diaz and others in the system a chance.Escobar will be just fine,also take pendleton out of his position,along with the pitching coach!
Larry
July 15th, 2009
1:49 pm
You could trade for the entire Red Sox lineup and the end result would be the same: A Bobby Cox managed team watching their opponent celebrate on the pitching mound! So, no trades, hope that he will retire at season’s end, and then judge our current team by a new manager who understands more than pitching and defense; he understands the need for effective in-game management by marrying speed and situational, contact hitting, and exhibits better pitching decisions (change, or no change)and instincts.
Besides, how can one cheer for a player for two months they know beyond a doubt will be wearing another uniform in three or four months?
sgebraves
July 15th, 2009
1:53 pm
How about we trade Javier Vazquez to the brewers for JJ Hardy or their young shortstop Escobar from what I saw at AA he is very fast and pretty slick with the gove. Then we trade our Escobar for a bat or prospects.
Larry
July 15th, 2009
1:55 pm
Garrett Anderson,
You wrote: “I am sick of the AJC (except you Mark) not calling out Bobby Cox for his poor management of the team”
Please submit just one reference, quote, anything (I’d like to see even an insinuation) where Mark Bradley or another AJC Sportswriter has “called out” or even politely challenged Bobby Cox!
I’ll be waiting…
AZBravoFan
July 15th, 2009
1:56 pm
It’s clear that there are no big bats available at a reasonable price. (unless you get the Nats to pick up most of Dunn’s salary, but do you really want to run McLouth to death in CF with 2 stiffs on either side?) So maybe the Braves should focus more on smallball, something that has always been a problem for them, but something that is much more useful in close games and in the post-season. I don’t know who of that ilk is available. Is Podsednick still any good? Could we get the Nats to flip Nyjer Morgan? This team badly needs people who can manufacture runs.