The Hot Button: Should Braves be buyers or sellers?
Frank Wren was the most aggressive general manager in baseball over the winter. Barely a week passed that the Braves weren’t in the middle of some transaction, some of which were consummated (Vazquez, Lowe, Kawakami, Garret Anderson), some of which were not (Peavy, Burnett, Furcal, Griffey). With the Braves four games out of first place with 78 to go, there seems little chance he’ll relax now.
But maybe he should. Maybe this is one of those almost-but-not-quite seasons that would be better left to its own devices. Wren has already made a major move in landing Nate McLouth, and that was a reasoned acquisition — a team that needed a professional center fielder found one who’s under contract for four years more. But sometimes decisions made near the trade deadline are less reasoned. Sometimes you swing for the fences and wind up with …
Mark Teixeira for 365 days.
Wren, it must be said, didn’t make that trade. John Schuerholz did. And the new GM has positioned the Braves nicely for 2010 and beyond. All his starting pitchers save Tim Hudson, who’s rehabbing, are under contract for next season, and the Braves and Hudson have a mutual contractual option. They have a first-rate catcher, a burgeoning if occasionally bewildering shortstop, a center fielder and Chipper Jones. They have Jason Heyward and Freddie Freeman and perhaps again Jordan Schafer on the way.
The worst Wren could do now would be to risk the future on a present that mightn’t be altered by one hurried deal. Teixeira was supposed to put the Braves over the top in 2007 — heck, people were writing songs about him (see below) — and he didn’t budge the needle, standings-wise. And then, 365 days later, he was gone. And the farm system was the poorer for it.
The belief here is that the Braves will again seek to be a buyer at this deadline. Wren had to concede last season and jettison Teixeira, and no GM wants to do that two years running. Besides, this GM has much political capital invested in 2009. He has taken hits for his handling — some say mishandling — of John Smoltz and Tom Glavine, and what better way would there be to prove his mettle than to steal a division title?
Loading ...Sometimes, however, a division title isn’t worth the risk abject larceny would require. This team as constituted might — I said “might” — be able to finish first anyway, assuming the Phillies don’t find any pitching and the Mets don’t get healthy. Given a whole offseason to shop the free agent market and find another bat, Wren could well render the 2010 Braves division favorites.
This does, I must admit, represent a modification of my thinking, such as my thinking ever is. For two months I’ve thought, “You know, if the Braves trade Javier Vazquez for a big bopper, they might just win this thing.” But now I’m thinking, “Do you really move a starting pitcher of All-Star caliber for a corner outfielder who can’t field and who strikes out 170 times a year? Does the long-shot chance of propping up a rickety team offset the gamble of weakening yourself going forward?”
My answer two weeks ago was yes. My answer today would be no. I don’t believe that’s what Wren’s answer would be, but it’s now mine. There’s little chance the Braves will be sellers this July and every reason to believe they’ll try to buy one more player. But I’m saying they should be neither. I’m saying, just this once, they should be bystanders.
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
353 comments Add your comment
TheAttack
July 9th, 2009
1:14 pm
The Braves must analyze what they want to accomplish…is the goal to return to the postseason in 09 OR make a deep run this year OR is it contend as long as possible this year with an eye on 2010 OR build as much as you can for the long term future? Combine that analysis with the players you currently field and those on the market to determine what direction to follow.
With that in mind, some thoughts: Let me first say I don’t think the Braves should trade Vazquez, but note that in his career he is a strong regular season pitcher and pretty much bombs once he sniffs the postseason. Now find me a World Series champ over the past few decades that had the lack of pop at first base and the corner OF positions that the 09 Braves exhibit. Doesn’t exist, I’d say that is priority #1. There is minor league depth at OF and pitching, so utilize it to fill in the gaps. Also, try and get whatever you can for guys like Johnson and Francouer who seem to have declining value but still remain arbitration eligible. Teams looking to get younger and/or unload salary or pending free agents will take a flyer on these guys. Seems to me the Braves could pretty easily go out and make a deal for a Matt Holliday or Aubrey Huff if that is the direction of choice.
Pal Joey
July 9th, 2009
1:14 pm
It is pretty clear Francoeur is not going to add anything to this team. He should be on the trading block if there are any interested suitors. As for Vasquez, he is the best starter we have and it is plain idiocy to think about moving him. Someone suggested we should try to get more speed at the top of the order. Why? Bobby wouldn’t use it if we had Ricky Henderson and Maury Wills both in the line-up back to back. He is of the Earl Weaver school and lives for the long ball which the Braves don’t have. My suggestion is to retire Bobby and get a younger manager in here who appreciates small ball and utilizes the people we already have. We have seen year after year since 1991 that Bobby will not adjust and therefore cannot win playoff games even if he gets there. He has had a great career, but it is past time to get new blood in here and revamp the way we play baseball.
Atticus
July 9th, 2009
1:18 pm
Everyone talks about the weakness of the division but we have enough division titles. This team either needs to get better to be able to compete with the Dodgers or it doesn’t matter because just “hanging” in the division is not enough. Just trust that Wren does the right thing.
AlabamaBrave
July 9th, 2009
1:20 pm
Too bad, we don’t need a 2B like Freddy Sanchez. He is available. He is not what we need, but I would love to have him.
Herschel Talker
July 9th, 2009
1:20 pm
Where’s Claudell Washington when you need him?
Just Wondering
July 9th, 2009
1:22 pm
ken who is in the know @ July 9th, 2009 12:05 pm
oakland scout de&%@n @$%al##z
According to the A’s website, this person is not a scout.
Coordinator of International Operations/ Baseball Operations Analyst Dan Kantrovitz
Mark Bradley
July 9th, 2009
1:23 pm
I can’t imagine Jeff Francoeur being much of an attraction to other teams at the moment. Kelly Johnson or JoJo Reyes, either. If the Braves are going to trade somebody other than Javier Vazques, I’d guess Ken Who Is In The Know is correct: The line forms behind Jordan Schafer.
Braves fan in Nebraska
July 9th, 2009
1:23 pm
Maybe someone else has pointed this out already…but leggomyego said quite possible the stupidest thing in the history of man…
“Pitching > Hitting, otherwise the average batting ave. would be at least .500, dig? It ain’t rocket surgery people.”
What the f&#^ is rocket surgery? Stay off the internet Bubba…
As for what this is about. I think everyone needs to get off the Matt Holiday bandwagon. The dude is hitting .270 w/8 HR and 43 or so RBI’s. Not worth the prospects nor the money to resign him in the off-season. Granted, he is playing for the only offense in MLB worse than ours and in a gigantic home park, where a foul ball has to travel 1/2 as far as a HR to get into the stands, but no way no how.
Definitely on the Juan Pierre bandwagon. I think we can get him for a relatively low price and place him lead off and move arguably our best power threat McLouth to 4/5 in the order to drive in some RBI’s. Here is what our lineup could look like. Put Chipper in a Mac sandwich and that should be enough to jumpstart the top of the order. Keep Frenchy for a defensive sub as he still has a laser arm (couldn’t trade him for a bucket of balls right now anyways).
1 – Pierre
2 – McCann
3 – Jones
4 – McLouth
5 – Escobar
6 – Prado
7 – Diaz/Anderson Platoon
8 – Kotchman
Noah
July 9th, 2009
1:23 pm
we have enough division titles. or it doesn’t matter because just “hanging” in the division is not enough.
While there is something to be said that people get bored and disappointed with titles when they are used to them it really shouldn’t get old winning a division title and after a few bad years it would be great and exciting. I’ll take a playoff team over future potential down the road anyday. How many times have we seen in baseball the future potential leading to no playoff trips.
AlabamaBrave
July 9th, 2009
1:23 pm
Sorry, I can’t help myself. I have always Sanchez’s game
AlabamaBrave
July 9th, 2009
1:25 pm
Can’t help myself. I have always liked Sanchez’s game.
AlabamaBrave
July 9th, 2009
1:25 pm
Cursed computer is too slow. My bad
Noah
July 9th, 2009
1:25 pm
Definitely on the Juan Pierre bandwagon
Agree 100% percent But why would the Dodgers trade him when he is playing so well and unless they pay a large portion of his salary he doesnt even come close to fitting within the Braves budget constraints.
Braves73
July 9th, 2009
1:26 pm
You are absolutely correct Mark. I have echoed your same sentiment for the past few weeks. The Braves would be well served keeping their best starter and shortstop in the fold. There is no good reason for Frank to destroy all he accomplished in the offseason (which was to vastly improve the pitching staff). If they are to make a move, it should be with the future in mind. The young guys (Heyward, Freeman) will be up full time by 2010 (and possibly be September call ups).
Atticus
July 9th, 2009
1:27 pm
Mark, I think Medlen or Gonzo could be a potential too. Their stock is at it’s highest right now.
sportsmandh
July 9th, 2009
1:27 pm
MB,
Too me, I can’t pick between buyer, seller, or bystander. The way I would look at it is on a deal by deal basis.
If there was a deal where I didn’t have to give up people I consider key players, I would by a bat. I think it would be possible to do that and get a solid outfielder for right field, and not look to make a blockbuster deal.
I would sell Vazquez or Gonzalez only closer to July 31st, and it would have to be a REALLY good offer.
Maybe you could even do both. What if Hudson looks solid in rehab, you could sell Vazquez for some strong prospects and maybe a really good reliever. Then you may also be able to trade Gonzalez for a solid outfielder for right field if you’d gotten back a good reliever in another deal so that you don’t weaken the bullpen too much.
The bottom line is that we speculators really can’t know. Only if you had knowledge of what offers may be on the table could you really make the best choice.
Atticus
July 9th, 2009
1:28 pm
Where are all the Yunel bashers? I thought so…
The dude is a stud, yes he makes some mistakes but he more than makes up for them with that bat and the plays he can get to.
Noah
July 9th, 2009
1:30 pm
The young guys (Heyward, Freeman) will be up full time by 2010 (and possibly be September call ups).
Sounds like a rebuilding team next year if your pinning your offense on 2 rookies who have yet to play even at AAA.
I think Medlen or Gonzo could be a potential too. Their stock is at it’s highest right now.
Why blow up your bullpen, that will make ruin any playoff chances.
Benjamin
July 9th, 2009
1:30 pm
I wouldn’t go too deep into either buying or sellng at this point.
Escobar Rocks
July 9th, 2009
1:30 pm
How about Kelly Johnson for Ryan Ludwick. Wasn’t this rumored over the winter? KJ is struggling and so is Ludwick. The Cardinals have a crowded outfield with Colby Rasmus developing nicely. Maybe they could use another infielder.
I don’t want to see the Braves do anything crazy and trade one of the good youngsters like Medlen, Schafer, Heyward, Freeman etc. just for some weak hope at making the playoffs this year.
Benjamin
July 9th, 2009
1:30 pm
…and, by “sellng,” I obviously meant “selling.”
Wes
July 9th, 2009
1:30 pm
McCann in the 2 hole? Can I have some of that drug that you’re on?
Noah
July 9th, 2009
1:31 pm
Where are all the Yunel bashers? I thought so…
For what he is paid you cannot replace him this year or next. He costs almost nothing and provides good offense.
Braves fan in Nebraska
July 9th, 2009
1:32 pm
How much is Pierre earning this year? I thought it was less than 2 mill. True LAD might not want to give him up as he has been valuable, but they are a World Series contender and could stand to add an arm or two to the bull pen/rotation.
Not sure how much I’d be willing to part w/Medlen or Schafer for a Pierre type player, but it’s definitely worth looking into. I’d like to get him much more than Holiday.
Mark Bradley
July 9th, 2009
1:32 pm
I’m thinking “rocket surgery” was a little joke. Even if it wasn’t, it’s funny as heck.
Braves fan in Nebraska
July 9th, 2009
1:33 pm
Why not put McCann in the two hole? With a good speed guy, you want a guy who can handle the stick in the two hole for hit and run spots, plus he has good power, not great power, so Juan gets a bunt single and McCann follows up w/a 2 run HR and the Bravo’s are up 2-0 in the 1st and the pressure is off the pitchers right away. What are your thoughts on Mac in the 2 spot Bradley?
Scoots
July 9th, 2009
1:35 pm
Someone as slow as McCann will never bat 2nd. I like the Pierre idea, but I think it would go more like:
Pierre-Escobar-McLouth-Chipper-BMac- and then some order of Prado-Anderson-Kotchman
Mrs. Chanandler Bong
July 9th, 2009
1:35 pm
I’d feel more comfortable trading Medlen and Shafer, considering Hanson pretty much crushed Medlen’s dreams of starting and we’ve still got McLouth under contract for a few more years. And no, I don’t think moving either Shafer or McLouth over into Frenchy’s spot is going to help enough to make a difference.
Will
July 9th, 2009
1:36 pm
Stand pat? Do you truly think the other teams will? I don’t suggest doing anything drastic but we should consider dumping old rocky (Gonzo). He isn’t what he was a couple of years ago and probably isn’t going to get any better. If someone would take him for a good player that hits consistently and can play the OF then we should consider it. Get of Chipper’s back. He is still the backbone of the Braves lineup at this point. McCann, McLouth, Chipper, Prado and Escobar need to be untouchable at this point. All other regular positions could be upgraded if possible. Who knows perhaps it is time to call up a few prospects from the farm and let them do what they can in the second half of the season.
Jfreak
July 9th, 2009
1:37 pm
The problem with not making a move is that you know the Phillies and the Mets will probably make a big splash of some kind. We have a too many starting picthers and that’s a good thing. One of them will be moved for sure and JV is the odd man out. I don’t know that our chances will be any better after the trade but if you wait you run the risk of injury and then trade value goes down.
If there is a move to be made that will improve the team this year and next then I hope Wren pull the trigger. A power bat changes how the picther picthes to the batters ahead of that power bat and that means Chipper has better pitches to look and McCann has more runners on base when he comes up if you assume Chipper hits 3rd and McCann hits fifth?
However, lets get off the Matt Holiday trade talk. His numbers do not look good enough to trade for?? Remeber his numbers came from Colorado! I like Dunn! Give me 30 homers and 120 RBI and I don’t care how much you strike out. Good luck Wren the weight of the entire city rest in your lap?? What’s it going be buying or selling?
Noah
July 9th, 2009
1:38 pm
just for some weak hope at making the playoffs this year.
Weak hope of playoffs? They came through perhaps the toughest part of their schedule against the Sox and Yankess and are only 4 games out and have perhaps the best pitching in baseball. The division is weak so they need to take advantage, next year the Phils or Mets may win 100 games and the Braves may have an outfield full of rookies.
Daniel
July 9th, 2009
1:38 pm
Really, you can do both. Trade Escobar and Frenchy(as a throw in) to the Red Sox for Clay Bucholz; then trade Vasquez to Oakland for Holliday and Cabrerra. (you sweeten that deal with a non-A level prospect). You have traded for the future and now. Yes, you would be left with a short stop and OF issues for next off season, which they are already going to be anyway. But, you have created a starting staff for the next 8-10 years of JJ, Hanson, and Bucholz (oh, yeah some veterans named Hudson, Lowe, KK in the mix) You can decide in the off season whether to spend money on retaining Holliday or signing both Gonzo and Soriano.
I am telling you Mark, I got this whole thing figured out. I mean like you said its not brain science rocket surgery or anything.
Braves73
July 9th, 2009
1:42 pm
Noah – If you think adding two solid young guys to our current lineup would constitute “rebuilding”, then what the heck do you call this years team? The positions they would presumably fill (first base & Right field) are two massive holes on the team.
rlinaug
July 9th, 2009
1:45 pm
Atticus, love the name but I must disagree with you when you say, “Everyone talks about the weakness of the division but we have enough division titles. This team either needs to get better to be able to compete with the Dodgers or it doesn’t matter…”
The ONLY way to make a deep run in the playoffs is to MAKE the playoffs in the first place. Even Boo Radley will tell you, that for 162 games a year, winning a division title or making the wildcard is the ONLY thing that matters.
Braves fan in Nebraska
July 9th, 2009
1:48 pm
McCann is too slow for the 2 hole? I thought the idea is to drive in runs, not have a race. The whole idea is to have him up w/a speed guy (ideally Pierre) on base and have some hit and run action, stealing 2nd straight up and give Mac a chance to drive that run in. What good does it do to have McLouth lead off w/a HR or have Nate, Prado, Chipper go down 1-2-3 and then have Mac leading off the 2nd with no one on?
fan1293
July 9th, 2009
1:49 pm
I cannot believe you actually believe Frank Wren has done positive things for this organization.
ALL Righty then
July 9th, 2009
1:51 pm
Keep our pitching, get Diaz and Prado in the lineup and use Infante when he gets back. Do not trade away Vazquez and his 2 era when hes been the best pitcher we have this year. Its funny that when Diaz, Blanco, Prado are playing the braves win and they have a spark. But then Bobby moves the lineup again and they die.
Its time to sit the slumpers, move up the prospects of Heyward and crew and see what we have when the roster expands. One thing for sure is that not one player is going to impact this lineup to hit. They hit one day then all of them slump for the next three games. This includes Chipper. He has not been that great player this year. Hes just the normal player who gets hurt a lot. The lineup needs a total overhaul of new blood thats coming. Let the new blood come then see what we need.
Noah
July 9th, 2009
1:53 pm
How much is Pierre earning this year?
According to Fox Sports he is earning $10 million this year.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/playerScouting?categoryId=85915
Noah
July 9th, 2009
1:54 pm
I cannot believe you actually believe Frank Wren has done positive things for this organization.
Really? Are you kidding? In one winter he rebuilt the pitching staff into the best in baseball. He stole JJ from the tigers, stole McCouth etc.
LOLOLOL
July 9th, 2009
1:56 pm
You want to trade one struggling player for another? What the heck good does that do. I have a hard time trading a ACE pitcher and yes Vazquez is pitching like a ACE when we have KK standing there. Hes good enough to help a rotation and hes the one that needs to be traded. Next year we have
Hudson, Vazquez, Jurrjens, Hanson and Lowe. Thats one strong rotation if you ask me.
Atticus
July 9th, 2009
1:58 pm
rlinaug, I agree you first have to make the playoffs and that is goal #1. But just sitting pat and saying if we can win the division onbly being a few games back, and beat a mediocre Phils and Mets, to me that is not enough. If we can get better and not hurt future years, let’s do it because this team would NOT beat the Dodgers in a 7 game series much less the Sox etc…yes there is always a chance. All I am saying is if Wren sees an opportunity, let’s take it. Just saying we are hanging within the division is not enough because this team could would nto win a WS and to me that is always the goal.
Braves fan in Nebraska
July 9th, 2009
2:00 pm
If Pierre truly does make the $10 mill then it is unlikely that FW would take on that much salary, unless it was a D-Lowe for Pierre type trade (which is about as likely as me crapping out a $100 bill). What other good speed guys could ATL possibly get for a reasonable price tag? Michael Bourne, Denard Span, Jacoby Ellsbury? I really don’t see any of those as being in the realm of possibilities.
Noah
July 9th, 2009
2:00 pm
Hudson I believe has a $10 million option so whether he comes up I would say is up in the air. $10 million will buy you a good hitter and you never know how quickly pitchers come back from that surgury. And KK makes less then that. With that rotation Hudson would be a #4 or #5 guy potentially until he proves otherwise.
Klaus
July 9th, 2009
2:03 pm
Vaz for Vmart would make sense. Vaz for Dunn not at all.
Vaz & Vmart both have 18mos left on their deals so you could say its a wash. The Braves need a power hitter more than a starter but its close.
Now I will say I do not want to trade Vaz and would only trade him for a Vmart or Adrian Gonzo level player.
If I could I would trade for Vmart and try to keep Vaz but that exposes JJ to a trade which I also don’t want to do.
Net net we are better off standing pat apart from demoting Jeff to AAA and platoon Diaz and BJones in RF.
bvillebaron
July 9th, 2009
2:03 pm
fan 1293
Wren hasn’t done positive things for this organization? Are you serious? How about he rebuilt the starting pitching staff which is now the best in the divsion? How about he acquired versatile McLouth who has speed, power, plays gold glove defense, is young and under contract at a modest price for several years without giving up any of his top propsects in exchange for him? Wake up and smell the coffee my friend!
Braves73
July 9th, 2009
2:03 pm
Noah – You have to be blind or just not willing to give credit where credit is due. I don’t like Wren from a personality standpoint, but he did add Vazquez, Lowe, Kawakami, and called up Hanson). If you think that he had nothing to do with that and that our pitching staff isn’t world’s better from last season, you are smoking something dude.
Chris Broe
July 9th, 2009
2:03 pm
Braves will make the playoffs, no question. There are many teams (both leagues) playing within one standard deviation of .500 ball (give or take) who are in contention for the playoffs. Is that because the talent is spread out evenly? Good pitching beats good hitting the day after good hitting beats good pitching?
Today’s trivia questions: Has an umpire ever been ejected from the game by a mascot or batboy? Has an umpire ever stolen a player’s wife? Are there any scandals in baseball besides pine tar, fungo bats, gambling or steroids? (answers tomorrow)
TUpac 44
July 9th, 2009
2:05 pm
MB, Braves keep Vaz! It would be dumb to get rid of him. Hudson, is no shoe in to be sharp! (Hope he is however!) JF, just aint gettin it done anymore..he needs a change of scenery….As for Glavine….no sympathy for him…he is a trader..went to the mets! Enough said! Smoltz is not doing real well at this point..Go braves!
Noah
July 9th, 2009
2:06 pm
Noah – You have to be blind or just not willing to give credit where credit is due. I don’t like Wren from a personality standpoint, but he did add Vazquez, Lowe, Kawakami, and called up Hanson). If you think that he had nothing to do with that and that our pitching staff isn’t world’s better from last season, you are smoking something dude.
That is exactly what I said, defending Frank Wren to the guy who said he hasnt done anything. This team was in shambles a year ago and now has the best pitching in baseball. Thats why I mentioned stealing JJ, stealing McCouth etc.
Michael
July 9th, 2009
2:08 pm
Noah- Yes, I am serious. When you have an ice cold pitcher like Lowe, you don’t let him pitch in the playoffs. One cold pitcher can lose a series for you. Hopefully he turns things around by this Fall. As for Hanson, I don’t care if he’s 19 or 29 or 39. When the playoffs come around, you put your best guys on the field. He is out best pitcher NOW and if you disagree, I’ll just assume you haven’t watched all of his starts this year. JJ has been great, but his stuff doesn’t touch Hansons.