It took a while, but the Hawks’ culture has changed
Give Billy Knight credit. (Yes, Billy Knight.) Back in the winter of 2004, as he was dumping salary and trading Rasheed Wallace after one game as a Hawk, the general manager spoke of the need to rearrange more than personnel. “Changing the culture,” was how Knight put it, and here’s what he meant:
Playing and working for the Hawks had become drudgery. Nobody came here expecting to win because the Hawks had stopped winning. There was no pride within the organization, no sense of anticipation in the community. This was just another boarded-up storefront along the NBA’s Desolation Row.
For the Hawks ever to get good again, that feeling had to be replaced by one of competence and expectancy. Well, it took five years — so long that Knight is no longer in place to bank the benefits — but it has finally happened.
What we’ve seen this past fortnight is proof the Hawks are now viewed, both internally and externally, as a thriving concern with a shiny future. We saw it the day the new man Jamal Crawford held his introductory briefing, when his opening statement was this:
“[This warm reception] shows how far Atlanta has come in the last few years, how we’re an up-and-coming team. I’m excited to be here. I couldn’t believe it — it happened so fast; I’d heard the rumors about me going to Atlanta — but for it actually to come true, I’m ecstatic. I can’t wait to get started. Coach Woodson and Mr. Sund are really doing great things around here, and I’m just happy to be a part of it.”
Yes, they were only words, but they were heartfelt. (See video below.) A man who has spent nine NBA seasons without gracing a playoff game sees Atlanta as a place to be if you’re talking playoffs. And we see what the past 15 months have meant to this franchise and its standing: Taking the Celtics to a Game 7 caught people’s eye, and winning 47 games and beating Miami in Round 1 confirmed that first impression.
Loading ...Put simply, the Hawks are again a factor. They have a nice roster. (Much of which, yes, was Knight’s doing.) Mike Woodson has proved, after years of losing, that he can coach a winner. Rick Sund has taken what Knight started and has applied a gloss of professionalism. The Crawford trade was a beauty, and re-signing Mike Bibby and now Zaza Pachulia were missions the old Hawks invariably botched. Sund aced both.
Not that Sund was dealing from weakness. A Hawk for 17 months, Bibby likes what he sees. He could surely have gotten more money elsewhere, but he took what amounts to a $9 million pay cut to stay with an organization he has come to respect. Time was, everybody laughed at the Hawks, we Atlantans hardest of all. Nobody’s laughing today. And there’s your evidence of a culture change.
The matter of Marvin Williams remains this summer, but we’ve reason to believe Sund is up to the task. We’ve reason to believe players like what he’s selling — a nice place to live and work, and also a clear and present opportunity to win. The city that began its life as Terminus is no longer the end of the NBA line. It’s a city where the culture of basketball is imbued with the expectation of success.
So: Take a bow, Billy Knight, wherever you are.
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119 comments Add your comment
MikeInValdosta
July 8th, 2009
11:02 am
What is the status of the Atlanta Spirit’s ownership lawsuits? Thanks.
gcsu12
July 8th, 2009
11:03 am
I completely agree Mark. Now if Sund can lock in Zaza and Marvin, which I’m confident he will.
Mark Bradley
July 8th, 2009
11:03 am
Both parties — Steve Belkin and the other owners — are waiting for a Maryland judge to rule. They’ve been waiting a few months now.
A Tribe Called Quest
July 8th, 2009
11:05 am
FIRE MIKE WOODSON
honest_abe
July 8th, 2009
11:07 am
finally some long overdue credit to the man who started the turn around.
HawkKingBibby
July 8th, 2009
11:09 am
Im glad somebody gave BK some love Mark. Hawks fans hate to admit to themselves that he built this team brick by brick. That 47 win team last year was Knights. Sund has added Crawford but so far the other pieces are Knights unless you want to count Mo Evans in usa and Chills in Greece. Rememeber also that Knight had Calderon for Chills all done but it was nixed by asg. Anyway great blog, is today blog a minute day or something for you? lol
sidslid
July 8th, 2009
11:14 am
The flight of the mascot is the same as the curse of the cat at Shea. 40 wins and a start if all over after next year.
Karl
July 8th, 2009
11:23 am
Good points. Culture has definitely changed. Our announcers won’t take trash from anyone. Remember when that announcer went after DWade? http://hawks.fandome.com/video/111800/Hawks-Announcer-Steve-Holman-Rips-DWade-Heat/?q=k
tbhawksfan
July 8th, 2009
11:27 am
Sekou says zaza is close to signing. Bring in another valuable big, extend MW and a couple minor FA’s and the Hawks are looking to improve again.
50 wins and a better chance at winning in the second round?
Herschel Talker
July 8th, 2009
11:46 am
When’s kickoff?
Sautee
July 8th, 2009
11:47 am
Mark,
I can only give BK so much credit. After all the man was dealt 6 lottery picks over 4 years. I’d have to think that you or me or half this blog could have assembled a roster this talented with that many lottery picks. And given that, he STILL whiffed on Sheldon.
The best thing BK did was to jettison some awful contracts. And yes, the culture has changed somewhat, but that’s as much an offshoot of talent growing up as it is something tangible that a GM did.
I WILL give him credit for taking a chance on Josh Smith at #17. His best pick.
And he DID get Bibby.
(BTW, Horford was a slam dunk, and BK TOTALLY lucked out that we got the right ping pong ball or that would have gone to Phoenix.)
Brian Jurley
July 8th, 2009
11:48 am
Talk about low expectations. Yeah, this is the same guy that drafted mediocre Marvin over a top 2 PG in the game. A role of which the hawks try to fill by starting a past his prime Mike Bibby. This is the same guy that drafted Shelden Williams. Whom has yet to do ANYTHING in the 3 years since he has been drafted. He drafted Acie Law…. Whom turned into a bust. Same with Stoudamire.
The Hawks will have the same mediocrity they had in the late 90’s with Steve Smith and Mookie Blaylock. The Hawks have NO CHANCE a championship in the next 10 years. They don’t have the talent on the roster to do it.
MrHughes
July 8th, 2009
11:49 am
Billy Knight was never great with glad handing the writers and sports talk hosts, but that wasn’t his job. His job was to build a basketball team rather than befriending the Atlanta sports media. Pete Babcock was a real nice guy, but his on the job performance left a lot to be desired. In my opinion BK is the architect of these Hawks and it can’t be too long before someone else gives him the task of rebuilding another franchise. For as much as people laud Jerry West, Mitch Kupchak, Donnie Walsh, Pat Riley, Kevin Pritchard, RC Buford, Joe Dumars, and Bryan Colangelo, you can’t argue with the results in Atlanta and Memphis…
Plus, the Belkin no-shake photo is priceless.
Hawks Dude
July 8th, 2009
11:49 am
I’m a huge Hawks fan, but to say Billy Knight did anything is crazy. It’s easy to build a talented team when you have a top draft pick every year.
Brian Hurley
July 8th, 2009
11:51 am
Oh, and if it’s true that the culture has changed, why do still no quality FA’s want to sign with the Hawks?
Mark Bradley
July 8th, 2009
11:55 am
I’m still waiting for someone to say, “Way to go, Mark. You mentioned Billy Knight and didn’t bring up Chris Paul.”
And I never had any problem with Billy Knight as a basketball man. (Actually, I had one problem — Shelden Williams.) But I don’t know he’s what you want as a general manager: I remember one TV anchor saying to me, “You know, Billy talks to you [meaning me] a lot more openly than he does to us.” And I thought Billy hated talking to me.
Josh
July 8th, 2009
11:55 am
This is a great time to stock up on talent at a good price. Too many teams are playing for next season. Locking up marvin long term is a must, before teams start throwing around money next summer. In a dream scenario, where resign marvin and zaza, bring in andersen and trade chills for camby. Are we elite? Or would be still need to bring in a superstar?
Brian Hurley
July 8th, 2009
11:55 am
“For as much as people laud Jerry West, Mitch Kupchak, Donnie Walsh, Pat Riley, Kevin Pritchard, RC Buford, Joe Dumars, and Bryan Colangelo, you can’t argue with the results in Atlanta and Memphis”
Mediocrity is not a finish in which you should seek. That is how this team’s run will end. Just as that is how Mempis run ended.
Bravedawg
July 8th, 2009
12:02 pm
Mark,
I’m sorry – I just don’t get it. We now have 3 point guards: Bibby, Crawford, and Teague. Teague is going to rot on the bench, just like Acie Law, because Mike Woodson has shown that he is completely incapable of developing talent. How is this a good thing? Bibby took a “pay cut” to sign with us because no one else was beating down his door. According to all published reports I’ve seen, Philly was the only team going after him. There’s not much of a market for a shoot-first point guard who can’t pass or defend.
Ron E.
July 8th, 2009
12:04 pm
Yes the Hawks are now winners, but they’re still far from being contenders to a championship. Barring Lebron, Paul Pierce, Dwayne Wade, Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan, and Dwight Howard all missing the playoffs with injuries, the Hawks won’t be the ‘09-10 NBA champs. Making the playoffs is certainly nice, but it’s a low bar to cross when half the league qualifies.
BigAtotheRun
July 8th, 2009
12:05 pm
Mark,
Thanks for your continual optimism regarding our Atlanta franchises. I know we all need to be brought down to reality sometimes but I truly appreciate your providing both insight and the facts.
I do have a question for you. What do you think our chances are for retaining ZaZa and do you think Flip is gone?
GeeMack
July 8th, 2009
12:05 pm
Wow Mark sound like we are back on the path of mediocrity. We’ll have a good regular seasons, but never get past the 2nd round of the playoffs. I can hear the marketing slogan now ” Hey Hawks fans come watch your mediocore Hawks take on the great Lakers, Celtics, Cavs, Spurs & Magic”. I just want to see one year where we put a team on the floor that can actually win a title. Just one year!
MrHughes
July 8th, 2009
12:07 pm
” It’s easy to build a talented team when you have a top draft pick every year.”
It’s not easy…
The Kings, Warriors, Bobcats, Grizzles, Sonics/Thunder, Knicks, and Bucks all prove that.
But, the epitome of that is the Clippers. It’s a shame Blake Griffen didn’t go to the Thunder because you know the Clippers are going to screw him up.
hawkfan
July 8th, 2009
12:08 pm
I agree the team has shown steady improvement over the past 3-4 years. But I disagree with the long-term philosophy of GM Rick Sund because I think he believes the Hawks will eventually contend for a title by keeping a starting nucleus built around 5 “good” players. While this may have worked for the 04-05 pistons, they were very much the exception to an NBA league where championships are built around superstars.
The Hawks are a young and exciting team when playing well, and I like the team’s direction, but I worry that mgt. may one day pass on the opportunity to acquire a true superstar for fear of disrupting its nucleus, or simply because they believe tweaking a playoff roster is a safer bet.
Ry
July 8th, 2009
12:09 pm
Mark, Bibby did not take a $9 million pay cut to stay in ATL. He took a $9 million cut because no one would pay him that, and there were no teams really even interested.
MrHughes
July 8th, 2009
12:11 pm
I’m really getting sick of the Chris Paul stuff. If we draft Chris Paul, then we don’t get Al Horford. Getting a legit big man cheaply is more important than getting a PG. There were like 15 pgs drafted early this year. Some want us to bring in Tyson Chandler. Tyson make Joe Johnson money and I’d rather have Horford who hasn’t even whispered his prime and might have played in the All Star game last year had it not been for injury.
SWAT Native
July 8th, 2009
12:13 pm
Way to go, Mark. You mentioned Billy Knight and didn’t bring up Chris Paul. Well, I guess I was a little late..
I hadn’t thought about all of Knight’s tenure, but in retrospect he did do a nice job in changing the culture. He had some misses as they all do, but overall he did well. You didn’t mentioning bringing in Joe Johnson, but that was really the turning point.
Brian Hurley
July 8th, 2009
12:16 pm
“I’m really getting sick of the Chris Paul stuff. If we draft Chris Paul, then we don’t get Al Horford. Getting a legit big man cheaply is more important than getting a PG. There were like 15 pgs drafted early this year. Some want us to bring in Tyson Chandler. Tyson make Joe Johnson money and I’d rather have Horford who hasn’t even whispered his prime and might have played in the All Star game last year had it not been for injury.”
You talk as if Horford is some kind “can’t miss” player when he in fact is not. Al Horford is only productive on the offensive end if the other team has a bad front line. Al Horford will NEVER be an all star becasuse he has no offensive game. It shows in his laughable 10PPG scoring average.
BPJ
July 8th, 2009
12:17 pm
This past season’s Hawks team had a superb starting five (true that no one was among the top 3 at his position, but the starting 5 overall matched up well with anyone). The biggest problem was the thin bench. Over the course of an NBA season, the teams with a thin bench tend to have more injuries among their starters, not to mention a dropoff in performance (especially defensive performance) caused by fatigue. Whether it’s Mookie Blaylock or Joe Johnson, it’s not good to have players who are among the league leaders in minutes played. Next year’s team appears likely to have less of this problem. Still need another backup big man besides Pachulia. Having Childress back would be nice. If the players listen to Woodson, the Hawks could go far.
GeeMack
July 8th, 2009
12:25 pm
hawkfan
I agree with you. Superstars with complimentary players around them win championship, and we have a team full of complimentary players.
MrHughes
July 8th, 2009
12:27 pm
More often than not you get superstars through the draft. They don’t often come via free agency. That’s why Bird rights are so important. We don’t have the benefit of a huge market like LA or NYC.
This isn’t like NBA Live where you can delete Lebron from the Cavs and just add him to the Hawks as a free agent. Also, changing the culture, which has happened, goes a long way to luring quality free agents. It says a lot that a 20 ppg scorer has no problems coming off the bench.
Lastly, I don’t see the point in throwing a bunch of money out the window for the sake of getting to the finals and maybe winning a championship. Does that make sense when you are in the lottery two years later? Where are the Heat now? Where were the Mavs last year? How about the Suns? Where will the Cavs be in two years when Lebron is in NYC? Where were the Nuggets two years ago? I don’t consider Melo a Superstar… They were a couple bad calls from knocking out the champs. Where have the Knicks been since Jordan played for the Bulls despite spending boatloads of money. The game has changed! I’m not going to lecture the ASG on how to spend their money. It’s not mine or my call. I’m happy with the direction of the team. We are building like the Detroit Pistons, who did it the right way went to six straight Conference Finals and won a few rings.
This “lets get to the Finals” talk sounds like spending a grand on lottery tickets for the chance to win Powerball and sleeping in a box a month later because you can’t make rent.
Brian Hurley
July 8th, 2009
12:34 pm
In other words Mr. Hughes… You’re pro mediocrity. Hope you enjoy it, because that’s what you’re going to get. That’s all the Atlanta Hawks have ever done.
You darn right I want to see the team actually win a title instead of winning 45 games and winning nothing in the playoffs. The only reason the Hawks got out of the first round in the first place was because Miami was downright awful.
Lebron is going to NY. Anybody that believes that is not looking realistically.
Brian Hurley
July 8th, 2009
12:36 pm
Despite what people think…. NY is NOT LA. They haven’t won jack in 30 years either. All the hype that always surrounds them is just that. HYPE.
Harpie
July 8th, 2009
12:41 pm
Woodson has proven that he can coach a winner? He’s only proven that he can coach mediocrity! The Hawks have such a good roster of talented guys – but, they are going NOWHERE until they get a decent coach. He seems like a nice guy, but he does not know how to coach effectively!!!!
MrHughes
July 8th, 2009
12:41 pm
@Brian Hurley
Memphis…
Knight traded for the draft rights to Pau Gasol. Gasol won the NBA Rookie of the Year Award. The Grizzlies also drafted Shane Battier. Knight was let go after a very very strong draft class.
Arguably, the Griz didn’t live up to expectations under Jerry West. Two years after winning executive of the year and finishing with the leagues worst record (22 wins), Jerry West resigned.
JD
July 8th, 2009
12:41 pm
The good: Horford, JJ, Bibby
The bad: Boris Diaw as a Hawk
The ugly: Shelden, no CP3, Speedy
Mark Bradley
July 8th, 2009
12:44 pm
I think there’s a good chance Zaza will stay. I don’t believe Flip will now because I simply don’t see a way to play five guards. (Bibby, Johnson, Crawford and Teague would the other four.) I think the Hawks will use the money they might have offered Flip to try and lure another big man, which is what Mike Woodson says he wants.
wxwax
July 8th, 2009
12:52 pm
Well done, giving credit where credit is due.
Armed with a katyusha loaded with high draft choices, Knight hit more than he missed. He assembled the core of a talented team. He believed in the long-term and building a foundation. And he had the balls to make the Joe Johnson deal.
His mistakes have been explored at length on these pages. But if he’d drafted Chris Paul, then Al Horford would be wearing a different uniform today. Me, I’ll take Bibby and Horford over Paul and a nobody.
I believe Knight quit when he felt his foundational work was done. Perhaps it was to spite the rest of us who so disliked his style. And perhaps it was because he knew that, barring any major mistakes by his successor, the team he built would become his legacy.
Rick Sund is one lucky mofo.
MannyT
July 8th, 2009
12:52 pm
From a GM level, I don’t think you count Diaw as a bad. He didn’t work out here, but proved to be a decent NBA player.
I’d guess that part of the culture change is the expectation and excitement that drives fans/bloggers to expect playoffs and better. We lost a decade of that during the JR Rider, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Al Harrington era.
BWAF
Shutterbug
July 8th, 2009
1:03 pm
I have some photos that might make it possible to trade Solo to Cleveland for LeBron. Anyone interested?
Sage of Blueland
July 8th, 2009
1:04 pm
Way to go, Mark: you’re fired!
Notty
July 8th, 2009
1:05 pm
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I’ve been saying for years now Billy Knight did a good job. So he didn’t draft Chris Paul when Marvin Williams was the pick to take a 2 that year. He drafted Sheldon Williams, but that brought us Bibby who is not my favorite, but we don’t make the playoffs the last 2 years without him. He signed Speedy Claxton which would have worked out had his knees not fell off. Every other move has worked out as planned and its continuing to pay off. Good job Billy Knight wherever u r.
GET YOUR STEWEY AWARDS TICKETS NOW!!!!!!!! 4 MORE INFO http://WWW.2LIVESTEWS.COM OR CALL 404-237-0079 790 AM THE ZONE!
Steve
July 8th, 2009
1:06 pm
Maybe another big like Andersen or David Lee? Trade Mo’ and sign Childress? I think this Hawks team is real close to a championship – I just hope Woodson can go to a 9 or 10 person rotation to save these guys for the playoffs.
We do need another big, with O’Neal, Howard, and now ‘Sheed all standing in our way of winning the East.
By the way, how serious is Marvin’s back issues? I remember a fellow UNC alum – Brad Daugherty, having to retire at 28 because of back problems. Hope Marvin’s is not this bad.
MrHughes
July 8th, 2009
1:07 pm
Finshing among the top 8 teams in the NBA (based on regular season and playoff records) is not mediocrity. What’s your definition of mediocrity? Not making the NBA finals? The last time I checked only one team actually got the trophy.
“Mediocrity” is how every champion I can think of actually got to hold the trophy. The Bulls (MJ’s) struggled with the championship Pistons.
Were the ‘93 Suns medicore because the couldn’t beat the Bulls? So, ‘91 Lakers and ‘92 Blazers were medicore too. I guess the The ‘94 Knicks were medicore because they couldn’t beat the Rockets in a game 7, right?
Lebron may not end up in NYC. But, he’s not staying in Cleveland. His aura there has hyped that entire city up.
Mediocrity… Please! I’m not in favor of sleeping in cardboard boxes for a chance at the big time.
wxwax
July 8th, 2009
1:08 pm
Gosh, judging by the negative comments one reads here, some fans still haven’t bought into the culture change at Philips Arena. Two straight years in the playoffs, a better record every year under Woodson, one of the top eight teams in the NBA last year: darn, you’d think that would be enough tangible progress to satisfy.
I think the negative guys aren’t really making a statement about the Hawks. They’re making a statement about the status of their own psyche and their own outlook on life. Fellas, try smiling at yourself in the mirror. It will cheer you up!
And as for this business of Woody not developing young players, good grief. The Hawks have been one of the youngest teams in the NBA during his tenure. And they’ve improved every year. Whaddya mean he can’t coach kids? Huh?
Other than the much-beloved Acie, whom has he failed? I think Acie may well go the way of Salim Stoudamire. Remember him? Didn’t think so.
Listen, embrace the good times while they’re here. Sports goes in cycles. The bad times will return soon enough. Enjoy this heady success while you can!
GeeMack
July 8th, 2009
1:09 pm
Harpie
Do honestly thinks the roster can win a 7 game series against the Lakers Cavs Celtics Spurs and Magic. If not then Woody is not the problem. You need players in this league to win. Woody has done great with what he has been given. A bunch of young players with no idea of how to win and he has taught them give the man credit.
Hawks Fan
July 8th, 2009
1:15 pm
@ Mr Brian Hurley: would you take your venom to some other anti-hawks blog? You keep on bashing what The Atl Hawks franchise are trying to accomplish from the comfort of your sofa. My guess is that you have no basketball IQ whatsoever much less enough talent to beat a 3rd grade basketball team because if you do you will realize that no one or no team is perfect.
All the Celtics, Cavs, Magic, Spurs, and any other good team in the NBA ALWAYS have a rough patch that they go through and the true measure of any championhip team is HOW they emerge from it. Give credit to where/whom its due.
WCJ
July 8th, 2009
1:17 pm
Who is going to backup Josh Smith this season? Who would you like to see the hawks sign to back him up?
Jeff B. Gibson
July 8th, 2009
1:24 pm
Antonio Mcdeyess, and or Drew Gooden, but sign Zaza Who Backups Both C-F and Some times
backups SF or M. Williams.
Brian Hurley
July 8th, 2009
1:27 pm
Finshing among the top 8 teams in the NBA (based on regular season and playoff records) is not mediocrity. What’s your definition of mediocrity? Not making the NBA finals? The last time I checked only one team actually got the trophy.”
This team isn’t even CLOSE to making the finals. They got flat out embarrassed by a team that didn’t even make the finals. What you seen last season was the ceiling of this team.
Your in favor of mediocrity. Tell me something… Who outside of the 10 Hawk fans remembers those late 90’s team? They won 45-50 games for several seasons and nobody cared or cares. That seems to be the model in which you think is good.
Sorry, give me that one championship.
Brian Hurley
July 8th, 2009
1:30 pm
Hawkfan…
I’ll speak my mind here. This team doesn’t have the potential to get to the level of the other teams because the roster isn’t talented enough to get there. I will not give a franchise that has never accomplished anything of importance credit until they accomplish something of importance. Which this franchise has NOT done.
Mark Bradley
July 8th, 2009
1:36 pm
The Hawks lost to Cleveland in four games at a time when three Hawks starters were hurting to the extent that, had it been the regular season, they wouldn’t have played. Do I think the Hawks would have beaten the Cavs with all hands on deck and healthy? No, I don’t. But I think they’d have made it a better series and given us a better barometer as to where they are.
Mark Bradley
July 8th, 2009
1:40 pm
As for backing up Josh: I must say I’m getting more and more intrigued by David Andersen.
BPJ
July 8th, 2009
1:48 pm
What are the prospects for Childress? By that I mean (a) are you in favor of having him on the Hawks roster, and (b) how likely is he to return to the NBA?
And about Pachulia: is he as good as he’ll get, or might he improve next season?
GeeMack
July 8th, 2009
1:55 pm
Mark,
Can a healthy Hawks team get past either of the Eastern elite team (Bos, Clev, or Orl) in a 7 game series? That’s the question that must be answered. Even with the injuries we had we still should have won at least 2 games against a 2 man show like Cle.
Mychelfromatl
July 8th, 2009
1:59 pm
Zaza’s Back!!!
MrHughes
July 8th, 2009
2:02 pm
“Zaza Pachulia has agreed to terms with the Hawks on a long-term deal, according to two sources familiar with the situation.”
tree rollins
July 8th, 2009
2:05 pm
With Sund here I definitely am gaining confidence in this franchise (at last). His moves have been very clever and show we now have an adult in charge. I’m still skeptical about Woodson as coach and the Josh Smith situation. I guess we’re going to struggle through another year of that.
But certainly nobody can dispute that the Hawks are handling their situation better than since the days of Stan Kasten and Mike Fratello.
GeeMack
July 8th, 2009
2:06 pm
MrHughes
Detroit is not the model you want to copy. The model you copy is the Lakers 30 finals appreances in 63 NBA seasons with 15 championships. Thats consistency. Find out what they do a copy it.
DKD
July 8th, 2009
2:10 pm
From a poster at hawksquawk.net
Billy Knight thought that Childress was a better pick than Luol Deng and Andre Iguodala.
Billy Knight thought Chris Paul was too small and picked Marvin, who isn’t a bad player or a bust, when the Hawks most glaring needs were at Center and Point Guard. Picking Marvin wasn’t a reach because everyone had him in the top two, but when you need a point guard and there is a good one there YOU TAKE HIM.
Billy Knight passed on Brandon Roy to draft Shelden Williams a player that was a fringe lottery pick on just about everybody else’s draft board.
Billy Knight panicked and gave a four year contract to an injury prone career back-up named Craig Claxton.
Billy Knight got lucky that his terrible drafting landed him back in the lottery and he ended up in the top three and drafted the clear cut third best player in the draft in Horford.
His drafting decisions were from flawed in logic to just terrible decision making. His free agent signings, outside of Joe, were either average or terrible.
Billy Knight did a piss poor job as GM of the Hawks. Yes, he did get things right. When you’re given so many opportunities to draft in the lottery you’re bound to get it right eventually…unless you are the Clippers. Whoop de doo, we aren’t the Clippers.
Bravedawg
July 8th, 2009
2:12 pm
Wxwax – hilarious that you say “Other than Acie, who else has Woodson failed to develop?” Then you bring up a great example – Salim Stoudamire. There’s also Josh Smith, who should be much better than he is now. He has more athletic ability than almost anyone else in the NBA, yet he still has not developed a low-post game, a jump shot, or an even-keeled temper. Marvin Williams received RAVES from everyone out of college. Woodson has “developed” him into an average swingman with no discernible talents.
And for all the people that talk about how Woodson improved the team’s record each year, I would counter with the fact that it’s not hard to improve from a 13-win season.
But please, continue living in your fairy-tale land of daisies and gumdrops…I’ll continue to watch the Hawks barely beat a below average team in the first round (Miami) and lose in the second round. Mediocrity! ALL RIGHT!!
Bravedawg
July 8th, 2009
2:15 pm
Mark,
Oh…forget it. You’re not going to respond anyway.
Signed,
Hopeless in Hapeville
Mark Bradley
July 8th, 2009
2:21 pm
Sorry, Bravedawg. Just got off the phone with the owner of the Atlanta Falcons. (He’s in Montana, you should know.) As for your question … you’re wondering how Teague will be different from Acie Law, is that it? Well, I can’t give any guarantees he will be, but I think Woodson likes Teague’s game better than he liked Acie’s. And remember, when Acie got here, the other point guards were Anthony Johnson and T-Lue. Acie probably got too many minutes too soon, and when Woodson wasn’t pleased with the results he buried him on the bench. Teague won’t be expected to start. He’ll have the luxury of settling into the rotation without a ton of upfront pressure.
Anakin Joe
July 8th, 2009
2:26 pm
If drafting in the lottery year-after-year is a sure-way to get better (almost by default because young guys will narturally get better), then why are so many teams bad for so many consecutive years? BK missed on some Mercedes Benz-type players but he only chose one true lemon… and even turned that clunker (Shelden) into Mike Bibby. Without doing the research, I’m guessing that there have been other teams that have drafted 5 consecutive years in the top 10 and are not close to being a top 4 team in their conference. I think that you can give the man some credit without wanting to have his name tattooed on your left cheek.
MannyT
July 8th, 2009
2:38 pm
DKD,
The primary focus of MB’s piece was the culture change, but I’ll have a go at the other side of the BK argument. Always easy to play the hidsight game. BK was not the best talent evaluator but consider the following. Compare his work to his predecessor, Pete Babcock. I’ll let you run the names, but they were not impressive–I’ll take BK.
If you pull the Horford was an obvious #3 card, there is clear bias. There was a definite top 2 (Oden, Durant). After that it was wide open…do you get the PG (Conley), the big enigma (Yi), one of many guys from the back to back champs (Horford, Noah, Brewer) as well as others.
In contrast, your post pal agreed that Marvin was the consensus #2 pick and guy with the most perceived potential in that draft. As one of the other folks here brought up, is Marvin less than dominant due to his revised upside or due to the system in which he plays?
While Shelden was a reach, which was the bigger mistake—to take a guy at another position of defnite need with the #5 pick or to take Roy and trade him away for Randy Foye? Portland made the best moves in that draft. Originally they did not have the rights to Aldridge or Roy.
The Hawks were lucky to move up in the draft to get the 3rd pick for Horford. They were less than lucky to get the Williams pick when they had the worst record. IF the #1 pick that year meant getting the center (Bogut), then the Shelden pick would have been less likely. BK doesn’t get boo hoos for losing out in the 2005 lottery, so no boo hoo on the other side because they moved up.
BWAF
wxwax
July 8th, 2009
2:49 pm
Hi Bravedawg,
I’d say going from 13 wins to 47 wins is an improvement no matter how you slice it. It’s indisputable. Not to mention becoming of the 8 best teams in the entire NBA. This really isn’t up for discussion.
If you look at Marvin Williams’ career stats, it doesn’t look like he’s changed much except for his rebounding. But if you look at how he fit the Hawks last year, it’s like he finally found his place. His 3-point percentage skyrocketed. I think he found his role as a shooter and personally, I expect him to be one of the most improved Hawks next year.
Last season Josh Smith became one of the NBA’s most talked about young talents. His game is sometimes awesome, sometimes awful. I think we’d all like to see him take fewer bombs. But to say he hasn’t developed into one of the game’s most exciting young players defies reason. In fact, I got the attention he got swelled his head a little bit. The key to Josh Smith is a variable over which a coach only has a little control: his maturity. If Josh Smith can grow-up and realize how best to use his talents every night in the NBA, he’s going to be just an awesome player. His own mind is his only obstacle at this point.
So, a point-by-point rebuttal: the Hawks have dramatically improved their record under Woodson; Marvin Williams seems to have found his role and is poised for a break-out year; and Josh Smith is an awesome talent whose only barrier to greatness is himself.
SAABotager
July 8th, 2009
2:53 pm
Are you kidding? Give Billy Knight credit for what? One or two good picks doesn’t make this guy a genius. A blind man will find the hole ocassionally. Look at his whole body of work. He was mediocre at best. Too many veterans and lottery picks squandered. Ask yourself this question, “Why doesn’t this guy have a job?”
By the way Mark, I remember mentioning to you that Gortat, out of Orlando, would be a good fit here in Atlanta. I guess Mark Cuban thought so also. That is one free-agent we could have used.
Hawks Dude
July 8th, 2009
2:53 pm
Mr Hughes,
You say that it hasn’t been as easy with the Clippers, Kings, Warriors, Bobcats, Bucks, Knicks, Grizzlies, and Sonics….but they haven’t had 4 top 10 picks in the last 5 years (2004-2008). I didn’t include 2009 cause the season has yet to be seen. The Hawks have double the top ten picks of every team you listed with the exception of Golden State…who by the way were very good just a year or two ago.
hawkfan
July 8th, 2009
2:56 pm
MrHughes
(1) The Pistons won 1 ring. Not plural.
(2) Hawks fans want a title. The city deserves it.
(3) Just b/c you have a superstar doesn’t mean the team should implode after winning a title. Look at the Lakers, Bulls, and Spurs. They each won multiple rings and were/are consistent title contenders because they built teams around their stars, i.e. Shaq, Kobe, Jordan, Duncan. I know these are elite players who only come around every so often, but my point was that I don’t believe current Hwaks mgt. would do what it takes to acquire a truly elite player IF given the opportunity.
wxwax
July 8th, 2009
3:07 pm
Billy Knight built the roster that got 47 wins.
Hate on him all you want. But facts are facts.
BPJ
July 8th, 2009
3:09 pm
Mr. Bradley, any thoughts about Childress and Pachulia (please see 1:48 above)?
SAABotager
July 8th, 2009
3:15 pm
Speaking for M. Bradley:
Childress is trade bait, possibly a good center (not D. Anderson). Pachulia was signed today. I’m more concerned with M. Williams.. The Hawks need him back.
Stat Man
July 8th, 2009
3:19 pm
For anybody that questions the plethera of guards – please keep in mind. Come next year (regarded as a great FA class) we won’t feel obligated to resign Johnson at a ridiculous price and can slide Crawford into the starters role and spend money on a big man (when Marvin, assuming he stays this year) becomes an UNrestricted FA.
O'Brien
July 8th, 2009
3:23 pm
Mark,
I dont think the Hawks should go after David Andersen. We need a player who can bang/hustle/rebound, and not be a defensive liability. I havent seen many Andersen highlights, but my impression of him is that he is a good pick & pop player, good shooter, but bad defense.
Also, give me a guy who has played in the NBA. I’ll take Brandon Bass, Big Baby Davis, Drew Gooden, even Joe Smith. Plenty of established bench players out there. Hopefully Mr, Sund can find a match.
All I'm Saying Is...
July 8th, 2009
3:32 pm
DKD: What do you think that poster would say about Pete Babcock? And that is relevant when you judge BK because he had to clean out the garbage that Pete Babcock left, rebuild the franchise by trying to identify talent in the draft (because no free agent would come here), and regain credibility as an organization. BK is the one who drove the Joe Johnson acquisition despite the haters going on and on about Boris Diaw (who BK drafted by the way). BK screwed the pooch with picking Shelden Williams but otherwise he did a helluva job given where things were when he took over. Rick Sund, by contrast, has stepped into a wonderful situation.
howie
July 8th, 2009
3:45 pm
Mark-
Do you think the Hawks are thing of playing Zaza more and Al H at PF?
Is that the best Hawks line-up?
I know you are not crazy about Marvin W but he seems to keep better each year and I like his ouside shot.
Ted Striker
July 8th, 2009
3:46 pm
Any truth to the rumor Chris Washburn is on the Hawks big man radar again?
Word on the street is that Mark Price has been coaching Washburn up the last few weeks — special emphasis on tying shoelaces — out at Suwanee Sports Academy.
I’m geeked.
Rob
July 8th, 2009
4:43 pm
Mark Bradley, you must be on the Hawks payroll, with a six figure salary, to put out some BS like this! Do you really believe what you are feeding us? Of course not, I would lie to the faces of ATL fans too, if I was making your salary. Don’t hate the playa, hate the game!
gcsu12
July 8th, 2009
4:54 pm
Mark, what are the chances of David Andersen signing with the Hawks and leaving Europe?
niremetal
July 8th, 2009
4:54 pm
Bravesdawg
Wxwax – hilarious that you say “Other than Acie, who else has Woodson failed to develop?” Then you bring up a great example – Salim Stoudamire. There’s also Josh Smith, who should be much better than he is now. He has more athletic ability than almost anyone else in the NBA, yet he still has not developed a low-post game, a jump shot, or an even-keeled temper. Marvin Williams received RAVES from everyone out of college. Woodson has “developed” him into an average swingman with no discernible talents.
Yup. Pretty hard to develop players when the offense consists of “give the ball to JJ, and everyone else wait around in case he needs to make a bailout pass.” The Hawks are probably among the worst in the NBA at creating open shots through off-ball movement. That’s why a spot-up shooter like Salim and talented swingmen like Diaw, Chills, and Marvin never put up more than “ok” numbers in Woodson’s system.
Arlo
July 8th, 2009
5:15 pm
Who cares? It’s basketball. Yawn!!!
Rob
July 8th, 2009
5:19 pm
Niremetal hit the nail on the head! The hawks need to continue cleaning house, with Woodson being the first neck on the chopping block! Shame on you Mark Bradley, for praising Billy Knight, Bibby and Zaza! The Hawks won’t even make the playoffs this year, with the upgrades made by the other teams in the East.
All I'm Saying Is...
July 8th, 2009
5:28 pm
Billy Knight had to clean up the mess left by Pete Babcock (getting rid of unproductive players with burdensome contracts), draft some talent as initially no free agent would sign with the Hawks, get the team respectable again around the league, get the team relevant to Atlanta again, and then boldly pluck an unappreciated star off someone else’s roster (see Joe Johnson) despite a recalcitrant, two-faced member of the ownership group.
BK whiffed big time by drafting Shelden, was lousy at public relations (Rick Sund aces that test), and stubbornly refused to acquire a point guard via the draft preferring (like Larry Bird while G.M. with the Pacers) to acquire an established one but, as far as I’m concerned, BK did a phenomenal job given what he inherited.
As a result, Rick Sund took on a great role at a wonderful time and I’m sure it was easy to sell him on taking the job.
BK does deserves some props because he did build our playoff team basically from scratch and kudos to you Bradley for taking the time to realize it and type it.
(Now, the tasks that need to be done are:
1) Re-Sign ZaZa CHECK!
2) Re-Sign Bibby if he takes a pay cut CHECK!
3) Re-Sign Flip (don’t rush Teague);
4a) Check in with J-Chill to see if he wants to come home;
4b) Do a sign and trade with Marvin to get a big in the middle—either Tyson Chandler or go out and get Gortat (before he inks his deal with Dallas) as we have got to have a defensive presence in the middle and give Al a break from having to always play center
And at this point, 4B or something like it is the key—show me what you got, Rick!
Mark Bradley
July 8th, 2009
5:46 pm
About Al Horford: The Hawks believe he’s a center, and a fine one. They believe Zaza is a good backup center.
As for Childress: He’s not going to play here, but he could well be part of a sign-and-trade. Supposedly he has attracted the interest of Cleveland and Milwaukee.
Mark Bradley
July 8th, 2009
5:48 pm
And let me just say something about those who think — for reasons I admit are unclear to me — the Hawks should blow up the roster and start anew: Three of the five starters are under 25, and Joe Johnson is under 30. I mean, come on.
kevin2
July 8th, 2009
6:09 pm
allwe need now is a back up power forward
Billy
July 8th, 2009
6:17 pm
Mark, why wasn’t Sund successful in Seattle? Any thoughts?
Ben
July 8th, 2009
6:19 pm
Just sign David Andersent to backup the 4/5 and we are set. Maybe snag another backup big like Wilcox and were good to go.
E43
July 8th, 2009
6:34 pm
Bravedawg you obviously arent born in atlanta, you must be one of the people that moved to atlanta and got stuck here and can do nothing but hate all day all night. u dont know hawk history and are probably one of the people that want to trade everyone. the hawks have beaten cleveland before and even then we had an injured player. we took the celtics to the brink and earned respect in the east. if u dont appreciate the hawks then dont watch them at all. id imagine u being one of the fans that are just there to heckle the players when u do watch. josh smith wasnt supossed to be a supertar being drafted at 17 or wherever he was. he was supposed to develop slowly and despite being injured for the most part this year, he made some noise, he scored one point less than LBJ in that last game. salim was one that couldve gone away we didnt need him, the hawks let him go when he began uncovering up the situation to the public. if he came back he woudve been a lockeroom prob.
Niremental i get what your saying but JJ running all the plays was not the reason players didn’t develop. many teams run their plays through one man. but the bench helps take that effect out. and when you look at the hawks bench it was at one time during the season one of the worst scoring teams. probably because we didn’t have a back up point that could run the offense day in day out. yeah i know that they mix the rotation and all but when mike bibby didn’t play we got blown out in both games. dont get me wrong flip did well at the point but he also just happens to be joe johnsons back up. then marvin williams left movin mo into the line up and mario/ solo to back up roles.
we wont see those issues this year, my one hope is that our second round pick is able to play in the us this year.. i never liked the speedy claxton issue and think that just him leavin gives us some money and space for a big.
Mark Bradley
July 8th, 2009
6:36 pm
I know Andersen is interested in leaving Europe to play in the NBA. I don’t know if the Hawks are as interested in him now that they’ve re-signed Zaza.
Dawg A
July 8th, 2009
6:52 pm
Mark…… I really try to listen to what you say with some respect. However, you have got to stop saying Woodson did a good job. You have to take off your “Hawks Rose Colored Glasses”. With the talent we have we should have already gone a lot further. And as I mentioned in a previous blog…. if he was so special then why didn’t Joe Dumars and Detroit go after him? Instead they are focusing on another Assistant that was on the same staff as Woody that has no pro head coaching experience. Dumars seems to get it.
COME ON MARK!!!!!!!
RA
July 8th, 2009
7:19 pm
As much as I hate to, I’ve got to give you much props on this piece. Here’s the thing. If the Hawks ever win a championship, and that end doesn’t seem nearly as out of the realm of possibility as it once did, the forgotten man in all of it will be Billy Knight. He was the one that brought in Joe Johnson. He orcestrated the Bibby deal. He drafted Horford (and Mo Williams). His contributions to this franchise can’t be ignored, but they will be. It was just nice of you to give credit where credit was do, and if you can do that, I guess I can to. Good job.
Tim from EP
July 8th, 2009
7:29 pm
The true mark of a GM should always be how did he leave the franchise compared to how he got it. True, Billy Knight may have passed on some good players and acquired some bad ones, but the fact still remains that the core of the Hawks team(which have made the playoffs 2 years in a row, should be there again this coming season) are players acquired by Knight. And to this day, Billy Knight doesn’t get half the credit he deserves for pulling the Joe Johnson trade. The Hawks basically got the modern version of Scottie Pippen for Boris Diaw and some draft picks.
Furthermore, he left the franchise in a situation to where the Sund doesn’t have go and get big name players. The bulk of his job is going to be convincing ownership to pay for the core group of players Billy Knight got in the first place(and so far so good). Where Sund is really going to earn his pay is going to be in a couple of years when he has to convince Hortford to continue getting beat up playing center when there are going to be a plenty of teams willing to pay him top dollar to play his natural PF position.
RA
July 8th, 2009
7:32 pm
Dawg A if indeed that is your real name. I’ve got to step to Bradley’s defense on this one. (Yea, I know.) Look there are very few things that I can say with perfect certainty, but I can say that Bradley doesn’t have Hawks colored glasses or Braves colored glasses, or Falcons colored glasses… He is if anything the eternal pessimist of Atlanta sports. The fly in our ointment, the stink at our meals, the quintessential dark sliver in our otherwise silver lining. Oh yea, I’m supposed to be defending Bradley aren’t I? Well, here’s the thing, Bradley was right. At full strength last year’s incarnation of the Hawks was just not strong enough to take out Cleveland. At full strength, they would have put up a good scrap, might have even shown the king a few new things, but they wouldn’t have, couldn’t have won that series. Now, don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that Woodson has done a good job, and Bradley’s not either. What I’m saying is that he’s done the best he could with what he had to work with, but the situation has changed now. The Hawks have a backcourt that will rival anything in the east and if they can add a piece or two up front, such as an Andersen, they could make the big three in the east real twitchy. Trust me, Bradley’s not praising anyone, least of all Woodson, but he is trying to give credit where it’s due, and honestly at that. Give him a break. He is after all trying to evolve into something becoming of a journalist.
RA
July 8th, 2009
7:39 pm
Tim has a point, but if the Hawks were to get an Andersen or a true center, move Horford to PF and slide Josh Smith over to SF, bring Mo Williams off the bench to give firepower to a revamped and dangerous second unit. Horford could be a much easier sale two years from now…
Mark Bradley
July 8th, 2009
7:46 pm
Wow, RA. With a passionate defense like that, I hardly need Perry Mason on retainer.
And David Andersen is less a true center than Horford. Andersen is a power forward if he’s anything.
RA
July 8th, 2009
8:05 pm
He’s 6′11 and looks like he could cause matchup nightmares for a lot of true centers. That’s enough for me. As for my retainer, I’ll be billing the AJC directly. You’re welcome.
It took a while, but the Hawks' culture has changed | Mark Bradley « Culture Blog
July 8th, 2009
8:08 pm
[...] View post: It took a while, but the Hawks' culture has changed | Mark Bradley [...]
kirkinga
July 8th, 2009
8:32 pm
You want another example of a change in culture? I would say the increased numbers of blogs about the Hawks. Last year this time, it was tough getting comments from more than a handful of people.
Now we have many interested fans eager to comment on their basketball team.We’re still not at the level of the Braves/MIB or Falcons blogs (in season), but the interest has surely increased.Hopefully that interest will result in higher attendance so ASG can better afford to pay all of these players we all want to see added to the roster.
Go Hawks!!
Dawg A
July 8th, 2009
8:35 pm
RA, if that is your name…….. you and Mark are on a lonely island. If you read the blogs from all of the AJC writers, listen to the sports talk shows, watch the E.S.P.N. basketball experts, then you will know that you two guys might be the only two guys that give Woody any credit. And Mark it must feel good to have someone finally come to your defense on this issue. And as far as sending a bill to the A.J.C. they have lost so many readers , and that is a fact,I doubt they could pay you much!!!!