Bradley’s Buzz: Overrated = DeAngelo, Brooking and Vick
No. 7 is No. 2 on ESPN’s list
It’s the most loaded word in the lexicon of sports, and it’s not “steroids.” It’s “overrated.” Use it and you’ll start an argument. Aaron Schatz of Football Outsiders, writing for ESPN.com’s Insiders Web site, starts 25 arguments in one fell swoop, listing the most overrated NFL players of the past decade. (Link requires registration.)
DeShaun Foster holds the unenviable No. 1 spot, and I wouldn’t object: I’ve never seen him as anything more than an average tailback. But DeShaun Foster isn’t why we’re here. We’re here to identify the three former Falcons who cracked Schatz’s top 11, presented here — with Schatz’s full commentary — in descending order:
2. Michael Vick: Even before Vick’s sordid off-field activities came to light, he was a disappointing No. 1 overall pick. Vick was a great runner, sure, but when he dropped back to pass, he turned into Tyler Thigpen or Derek Anderson, quarterbacks who are close to Vick’s career averages of 6.7 yards per pass attempt, 1.4 touchdowns for every interception and 52.8 completion percentage. His upside at this point is “Best Wildcat Quarterback,” not best NFL quarterback.
10. DeAngelo Hall: There is a difference between an athlete and a football player, and Hall is a prime example. He looks amazing, thanks to his athletic skills (primarily speed), so you don’t notice when guys catch 100 yards worth of hooks and slants on him. Washington gave him a huge contract based on half a season, apparently ignoring the miserable player he was for Oakland and the only slightly above-average player he was for Atlanta. (In his defense, our research has shown that there are only two players this decade whose success on turnover returns is more than just statistical noise: Hall and Ed Reed.)
11. Keith Brooking: A good outside linebacker whose skills don’t fit well as a 4-3 middle linebacker, but year after year he was forced back into the middle by injuries to other Falcons linebackers. His biggest problems came in pass coverage, one reason why the Falcons ranked among the worst defenses against opposing tight ends for the entire decade.
Loading ...My take: I always though D-Hall yielded as many big plays as he made, and his excesses — the three penalties on one Carolina drive in 2007 being the most egregious example — undercut his obvious talent. I never thought Brooking was as overblown as you bloggers insisted, but neither did I believe he was nearly as good a linebacker as Jessie Tuggle, either. As for the other guy:
I’ll have to disagree. On Dec. 23, 2004, Arthur Blank — who had just bestowed that $130 million contract on Vick — said: “Michael wins the way he wins.” And that winning, at least from 2002 through 2004, wasn’t really a function of his passing numbers. He terrified defenses in a way no other quarterback ever has. And if you say, “Well, he wasn’t really a quarterback,” I’ll disagree with that, too.
I say again: Vick was miscast as administrator of the West Coast Offense, but he still managed to keep his team vibrant until the end of the Mora/Knapp reign of error. And we’ll always wonder what Vick coulda/woulda done under Bobby Petrino, who was so enthused by his new student he told a Falcon bigwig he believed the team would average — average — 30 points a game.
Some of you, I realize, might see it differently. And while you’re mounting your rebuttal …
A couple of more nuggets regarding MV7
According to Jason Cole of Yahoo! Sports, Vick might not be playing in the NFL again anytime soon. Quoting unnamed sources, Cole reports that commissioner Roger Goodell is leaning toward extending Vick’s suspension through the 2009 season. Which could mean: Hello, UFL.
And it would be a shame if Vick couldn’t play in the NFL this season if for no other reason than USA Today’s Nate Davis just went to the trouble of breaking down all 32 league options.
(Oh, in case you missed it: Three Falcons also made Aaron Schatz’s rankings of the most underrated players of the past decade. Find out which three here.)
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111 comments Add your comment
Bradley's Buzz: Three Falcons among decade' | Mark Bradley
June 30th, 2009
10:39 am
[...] reading: Mr. Schatz has thoughtfully compiled a companion list of the most overrated players of the past decade. The second name on it is an ex-Falcon. And Nos. 10 and 11 used to play here as well. All three of [...]
nola falcon fan
June 30th, 2009
10:42 am
Mark – (and I know the other bloggers will give me he*l over this) – thank god you are adapting to the new age of sports journailism. It seems like every day, you find a relevant, interesting topic and post a well written article on said issue. And then you spend tons of time (sometimes I wonder if you have much of a life!) responding to the comments of your readers. Well done sir.
Oh and I agree w/ your take on Vick. Go ask any DC who they’d rather prep for… a trad pocket passer or Vick?
Reggie
June 30th, 2009
10:52 am
DeAngelo and Vick maybe but Brooking for sure!
Maxwell Snark
June 30th, 2009
10:55 am
For Vick to be the most effective quarterback he can be, it would take a coaching staff willing/brave enough to tailor an attack to his strengths. Will that ever happen? Who knows. The most Vick-like QB I ever saw previously was Tracy Ham, who posted CFL career numbers of 40,000-plus yards passing and more than 8,000 rushing.
chris
June 30th, 2009
10:56 am
Did Favre make the over-rated list? Given all the drooling by the network sports announcers, if Favre did anything short of walking on water, he would have to be the most over-rated player in history.
gdg73
June 30th, 2009
10:57 am
Yes, ask a defensive coordinator who they would rather game plan for, Vick or Tyler Thigpen. Everybody that knows Falcon football could see that many of the teams offensive problems centered around inept coaching (Mora, Knapp, Stewart (WR coach)), no power running game, and a putrid offensive line. It’s funny how Petrino and Co. felt like the offense could score 30 points a game with Vick after seeing him in OTAs back in 2007. As a watcher of the game, I have learned to form my opinion of a player based on the big picture and what I see on the field. I refuse to base ny opinion of a player off of some list contrived by a sportswriter that probably has never followed the franchise, pre or post Mike Vick. Afterall, the media is the main entity that “overrates” players anyway. The fans of the game know garbage when they see it and will let it be known. Unlike sportwriters who like to cozy up to certain players and constantly paint them as gods in there articles (see Brett Favre and Peter King with Tom Brady). Let the fans be a true measure of who is under-rated and overrated.
Here we go again
June 30th, 2009
10:58 am
I agree 100% on Hall, but disagree on Vick and Brooking…. man talk about a slow news NFL offseason
Mark Bradley
June 30th, 2009
10:59 am
Thanks, Nola.
And Favre did not make this list. Although he’d top mine.
midnite
June 30th, 2009
11:00 am
The smartest DC’s figured Vick out by 2006. Monty Kiffin formerly of the Bucs owned Vick. The fans were getting restless with the lack of performance and that is why the little jerk Petrino was brought in.
Paulie OldSchool
June 30th, 2009
11:00 am
Am I just mis-remembering or was Jessie Tuggle shunted aside so that Brooking could start at ILB? That’s what I seem to recall, that Jessie (great guy–talk about a team player, great MLB)–was forced into early retirement. Anyone clear that up for me? Otherwise, I completely agree with the list. If I could make it more than a decade and Falcons Only, I would add more names, but Ray “So-called Big Play” Buchanon would be at the top of that list.
gdg73
June 30th, 2009
11:02 am
Mark, I posted my Vick comments before reading your article in it’s entirety. As you can see, I agree with you 100%. Great minds think a like, lol.
Bank Walker, Texas Ranger
June 30th, 2009
11:03 am
1. D Foster 2. Vick 3. C Chambers 4.J Lewis 5. A Vinatieri, 6. R Bush (completely agree) 7. Ty Law 8. Stephen Alexander 9. Dante Hall 10. Hall 11. Brooking 12. Flo Adams 13. Simeon Rice (yes) 14 Terence Newman 15 Ruben Brown 16 Olin Kreutz 17 Willis McGahee 18 Nate Clements 19 Eric Moulds (and not Peerles Price?) 20 Freddy Jones 21 Damien Woody (how can anybody named Woody be overrated) 22 Roy Williams (he sux and went to 5 straight pro bowls, should be #1) 23 J Brown 24 Travis Henry (not overated with your local Police)25 All Denver Punters
Reality
June 30th, 2009
11:04 am
Vick had a good three year run, but the NFL defenses had completely caught up to him by 2005 and his strengths that he relied upon were no longer a strategic advantage. Think about this for a minute, every single time Vick went up agaisnt a good to elite level NFL defense, he was completely shut down and rendered completely impotent. I remember games against the Panthers, Eagles, Bucs, and Bears where Vick was completely helpless and hopeless and the Falcons offense could do absolutely nothing because he had no ability to make any plays consistently with his arm. Those defenses were able to complete shut down his running ability, and once that was accomplished, Vick had absolutely nothing else and the offense went in the tank. I was convinced after the 2004 NFC championship game against the Eagles that this was going to be as far as Vick could ever go and he would never lead a team to a superbowl, much less win one, because he simply wasn’t a good enough passing QB to lead a team in further. In order to win a superbowl (or at least make it to one), you have to have an equal threat and ability of beating a team passing the ball as well as running it, and with Vick, the Falcons, or any other NFL team, were not going to be able to do that.
PreyDawg
June 30th, 2009
11:06 am
Mark,
Kinda shocked you “went there” with the whole Vick Enchilada again. But I like this topic and article.
Sorry buddy. You are simply wrong about Brooking. I liked Brook personally very much. I think he was one of the NFL good guys. He was a perfectly lousy linebacker. Keep in mind. Some of us are borderline obsessed with the Falcons. I know the national media doesnt think we exist but there are hard core Falcon’s fans out there that have watched closely for years. And now we have TIVO. I have run back TIVO too many times and slow moed Brook pile jumping after a teammate made a tackle. Nobody in NFL history celebrated a tackle that he didnt contribute to better than Brooking.
Then there is the legendary Reggie Bush non tackle on the goal line where he actually pulled his teammate off Bush when the guy had Bush stood up on the one yard line. Brook comes flying in, pulls the guy off and goes falling out of bounds to watch Bush score.
It is one thing to not be that helpful. It is quite another to actually help the opposition. Our LB corps will be a huge area of upgrade this year over last.
PreyDawg
June 30th, 2009
11:08 am
Buchanan was not over rated for his entire time here. For a couple of years he was very solid.
At long last
June 30th, 2009
11:10 am
MB, Finally someone else (you) agrees that Favre is ridiculously overrated. I know he won a Super Bowl, apparently with no teammates, just did it all by himself if you listen to our friends at ESPN. Fantastic arm, but he never realized that you cannot throw the ball into triple coverage and be successful. That’s why he leads in all time TD passes as well as interceptions…are you listening, Mr Stafford?
Bryan G.
June 30th, 2009
11:12 am
I totally disagree that Vick was overrated. I think he is UNDERRATED. I am not a Vick apologist by any means, but the Falcons pre-Vick were irrelevant and post-Vick were viable. Just look at the year he was injured. The Falcons were…what?…3-1 with him and something like 2-10 without him?
Vick was not a great passer by any means, but if my team has a 3rd and 10, I want him behind center just as much as I want Manning or Brady because Vick has so many ways to beat you. (Of course, I am speaking of pre-Fed Pen Vick)
Sarah B
June 30th, 2009
11:13 am
Pualie Old School here’s your answer:
Jessie Floyd Tuggle (born April 4, 1965 in Griffin, Georgia) is a former professional American football linebacker who played for the Atlanta Falcons his entire career from 1987 to 2000. He graduated from Valdosta State College in Valdosta, Georgia. He appeared in the Pro Bowl five times, and assisted the Falcons to a championship appearance in Super Bowl XXXIII after the 1998 season.
In his 14 seasons, he recorded 1803 tackles (1165 solo), 21 sacks, 6 interceptions, which he returned for 106 yards and a touchdown, 10 forced fumbles and 37 pass deflections. He also recovered 9 fumbles, returning them for 155 yards and an NFL record 5 touchdowns.
His nickname is “The Hammer,” because of the impact of his tackles.
His son, Justin Tuggle, will be enrolling in Boston College on a football scholarship.
In 2007 he was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame.
After being the 12th overall selection by the Falcons in the 1998 NFL Draft, Brooking quickly became the foundation of their defense. In his rookie season, he played in 15 games and posted 32 tackles, 1 interception, 2 forced fumbles, and 5 passes defensed as he served as the team nickel linebacker in passing situations throughout the season. He recorded 8 tackles in the NFC Championship game vs Minnesota Vikings, when the Falcons reached the Super Bowl XXXIII, but Atlanta fell to the Broncos 34-19. After that season, in 1999, he started 13 games, finished with 95 tackles (4th in the team), and he added 2 sacks and 2 passes defended. His first career start was against the Vikings, recording 8 tackles, and his first career sack was against Baltimore, sacking Stoney Case.
So no, I would have remebered Jussie Tuggle is one of my all time Falcon favorites.
Chris
June 30th, 2009
11:13 am
Mark, any other Hokies make the list? I’ve never understood how such disappointments can come from a program run by Frank Beamer.
In all my years of watching DeAngelo Hall play, I never could figure out what people loved about him. A pro bowl corner back should be able to hold his own against pro bowl receivers and he never seemed to be able to manage that. I’ll never forgot those penalty yards in 2007 he gave up against the Panthers. Was it just me, or did all of his interceptions come from underthrown deep passes?
Some guesses of others on the list: Carson Palmer, Chad OchoCinco, Rex Grossman (if he was ever rated), Cedric Benson, Brian Westbrook, Eli Manning, maybe Ricky Williams
Bryan G.
June 30th, 2009
11:13 am
P.S. Can there be a list for most-overrated color commentators who do not fly and stunk on Monday night football?
1. Madden
2. Kornheiser
slick
June 30th, 2009
11:15 am
I’ve often wondered … if most people agree a player is overrated doesn’t that then, by default, make him less overrated?
sam
June 30th, 2009
11:19 am
reality is a racist
Spud Webb
June 30th, 2009
11:20 am
I’ve said all along Vick will still be suspended for this season. Goodall want’s to see these guys live a trouble free live, without football, then he will re-instate.
I don’t think Vick was over-rated, I do agree with the other two.
Vick won football games & that is the BOTTOM line. The guy was good/sometimes great. Pre-dog killing days I’d take him in a MINUTE. I hope he gets everything turned around and ends up back in the NFL, everyone deserves a second chance.
J.J.M.
June 30th, 2009
11:22 am
D hall madeen 2009 overall was 93 madden 2010 overall is 68 thats a HUGE drop
Warden James
June 30th, 2009
11:22 am
Michael Vick will go down as the new Michael Jackson.
Of course, this is as opposed to prison where Michael just went…..
Mark Bradley
June 30th, 2009
11:23 am
Slick, I’ll have to give that some thought. It’s like Joe Rudi of the A’s: He was called underrated so often he probably became overrated for being underrated. Or something.
mobetta
June 30th, 2009
11:25 am
Vick is a douche, but overated? The guy did win in a system that did not play to all of his talents; the guy aint a QB, no leadership. But he was fast as ehll and took the falcons to a new level before embarrassing the ehll out of us.
Greg
June 30th, 2009
11:31 am
After DeAngelo mouthed off about what he was going to do against Chad Johnson, the latter made a complete fool of him in the game—one of the most lopsided CB/WR match-ups I’ve ever seen. So I’m certainly with you on DH. His footwork was terrible. He relied totally on quickness to catch up after getting in bad positions. Vick is a much more complex issue. He certainly terrified other teams, especially his running, of course, and although his passing was inconsistent, and his short passes were much too often wayward, he could and did throw many accurate balls, even quite deep ones. With regard to Brooking, one has to ask “when?”—recently he’s been average or below average on run plays, and horrible dropping into coverage. He was blocked much to easily, and seemed to be candy for good-blocking FBs and TEs.
jarvis
June 30th, 2009
11:32 am
I remember as a kid everyone saying Phil Simms was underrated….How can everyone says someone is underrated? Who’s doing the rating?
DHD
June 30th, 2009
11:34 am
You always have to work in a Vick article.The man crush continues. I bet there is one Vick article in the AJC for each Joe Biden gaffe. If it wasn’t so sad, it would be hilarious.
D.Carter
June 30th, 2009
11:36 am
I find it sickening that people still want to dub Vick as overated and not a good qb, also he played for some of the worst coaches in mora and knapp that the NFL will ever witness… He lead a less than sub par falcons squad to the NFC championship game and also won a playoff game, something that your SAVIOR Matty noodle are ICE hasnt done… Throwing to the likes of Trevor gaylor and Shaun Jefferson lol… lets see what the season brings this year for the falcons… i cant wait to hear all the excuses!!!!
Daniel
June 30th, 2009
11:37 am
I am not sure how Brooking is overrated. When in the description, he is talked about having to move to inside linebacker. He went to ProBowls because players and coaches voted for him, not fans. I am not saying he was super great at ILB, and it was time for him to go. I just think he wasn’t rated particularly above his play, which was a veteran, smart, tough linebacker with average speed and average tackling ability. No one has ever said he is a HOFer.
Now, D.Hall is only overrated by D.Hall and the Redskins. So is that really overrated?
Vick is too much of a complicated mess to even be on this list. Even in this topic he defies catagorizing(both positively and negatively)
Daniel
June 30th, 2009
11:39 am
D. Carter- Man, you can’t seriously still be hurt about the Vick situation. Dude, is gone and has been. Get over it. I am positive he doesn’t care about you.
Sidslid
June 30th, 2009
11:40 am
With you on MV7. The biggest mistake Blank ever made wasn’t the contract, it was ditching Reeves. He was to Vick like Cus D’Amato was to MIke Tyson.
Daniel
June 30th, 2009
11:40 am
True, Sidslid but Vick would have still got busted with Reeves as coach.
Zoomie
June 30th, 2009
11:42 am
Don’t agree that MV was overrated. Certainly, he didn’t make plays in the traditional fashion, but for a while, he electrified the whole team and won many games through sheer athleticism.
DeAngelo Hall was definitely overrated. Any receiver that wasn’t intimidated by Hall’s mouth owned him. Watched it happen too many years. He was so incompetent against some receivers, that I don’t doubt that Steve Smith walked up to the line, looked at DeAngelo and told him, “I’m gonna run a 15-yard hook,” then proceeded to do it successfully. I’m not sure “overrated” is a strong enough word.
I suppose it’s my exposure to dyed-in-the-wool Falcons fans, but I don’t think Brooking was overrated. His liabilities were pretty evident and talked about constantly. I think he was rated just about right: a strong team player with a lot of heart, but definitely lacking in the speed and skill departments.
Dan
June 30th, 2009
11:45 am
It’s a complete and utter joke to call Michael Vick overrated.
Michael Vick is the singular most important football player in Atlanta Falcons history. His tumultuous tenure in Atlanta was the only time in franchise history they were relevant for any length of time beyond one season. He had a 38-28-1 record as the starting quarterback which is a Falcons Ring of Honor worthy accomplishment (not the he would be considered for the ring of honor obviously)
He also sold merchandise and, more importantly, tickets. That’s a minor point if the guy didn’t win, but he did that and he brought something with him that Atlanta had never seen prior to his arrival: expectations. People were livid with 7-9 and 8-8 records when he was here, I remember a time when 8-8 was a parade worthy accomplishment for the franchise.
And a disappointing number one overall pick? Give me a freaking break. Go look at the other number one picks this decade. Eli Manning has a title, but has never had a consistently great season. Carson Palmer had numbers, but the knee injury derailed his career. Other than that you can’t even compare any of the number one picks this decade to Vick. Not even Mario Williams, who has been great but hasn’t won squat.
If anything, Vick’s impact is underrated.
Paulie OldSchool
June 30th, 2009
11:46 am
Sarah B: Thank you for the info on Jessie Tuggle. I in no way meant to imply that Mr. Tuggle was overrated, in my mind he was one of the best LB’s ever in ATL, and certainly UNDERRATED as far as the NFL goes. My point was that I remember that Brooking was moved into the lineup and Jessie was moved to the sideline, but, again, perhaps the haze of age and ??? simply makes me remember it that way. As I recall, Brooking was pretty good in years 1-4, questionable after that, horrible at the end. Hall was all speed, all talk, little D. Vick was Vick, often exciting, often heart in mouth terrifying as to when he would fumble or be intercepted or overthrow open receivers. A true polarizing force in ATL. At the beginning, a unifier; at the end, a divider. A sad, sad story, all in all.
RK
June 30th, 2009
11:49 am
linebacking – its about quickness and reading the play. Lose either and you slip.
dw
June 30th, 2009
11:53 am
Anybody else notice how the first sentence when talking about Brooking was an excuse? Call it what it is, HE FLAT OUT SUCKS AS A LINEBACKER NO MATTER WHERE HE PLAYS!
truth-serum
June 30th, 2009
11:54 am
Hey Mark. Are sells down again? You pimping Michael Vick to help your ever decreasing readership. You funny man.
Mark Bradley
June 30th, 2009
11:57 am
No other Hokies made the list.
Algonquin J. Calhoun
June 30th, 2009
11:58 am
Vick is the most overrated player in the history of football! Any achievement made by the Falcons while he was here was in spite of his play and not due to it. Goodell, I’ve said all along, will suspend him for at least one more season. Vick was involved in illegal gambling, a criminal dog fighting operation and other crimes related to those already stated. When confronted by Goodell, early-on in this mess, Vick looked into the Commissioner’s eyes and told him a damn lie. Goodell hasn’t forgotten. He also knows it took the threat of RICO charges being brought against him to get Vick to admit to the lesser charges he was already facing. The suspension Goodell is going to levy will be of specific length. His indeterminate suspension will end when he is released from federal custody. Vick has not been available to serve a suspension from the NFL while in prison. Once he is available, Goodell will bring the hammer down! It is appropriate that he do so. Mike Vick has been unmasked and revealed to be a person engaged in the torture and killing of dogs in a most hideous manner. He’s been involved in illegal and illicit gambling and it is now known, for certain, he is a drug user. Playing in the NFL is a privilege and not a right. Vick, as far as I’m concerned, has forfeited that right and a lifetime ban would be just fine with me!
Maxwell Snark
June 30th, 2009
12:03 pm
Can’t really argue with Mr. Calhoun’s reasoning. I’d like to see Vick earn a second chance through the redemption of his life. It would be best for him, his children and could inspire others to seek and make real, positive changes in their lives.
Maxwell Snark
June 30th, 2009
12:05 pm
Sitting involuntarily in prison, by the way, is serving time, not paying a debt. Paying a debt means making whole those you hurt.
nhe
June 30th, 2009
12:07 pm
I disagree with Vick’s inclusion…………I don’t think a guy is underrated if he fills seats and creates the first waiting list for tickets in franchise history.
Granted, it can be said he underachieved at times, but he was never going to be a high percentage passer……he was what he was for the Falcons – an exciting, running quarterback.
Hi work ethic (allegedly) wasn’t good here, which is a characteristic of “overratedness”. But on Sunday, he was a “must see” – overrated guys don’t fall in that category.
That said, I think his best years are behind him, and we are in a MUCH better place now.
TazTurner
June 30th, 2009
12:09 pm
Definately D-Hall!! I base my opinion on how many games he cost the birds. At least Vick won us some games even if it was with his feet rather than his arm. Brooking was consistent with 100 plus tackles a year. He sucked in pass coverage, but gave 110% every down.
JM
June 30th, 2009
12:16 pm
DeShaun Foster most overrated? I didn’t even know he WAS rated.
As for the Falcons on this list, I agree with Bradley’s take. Hall was vastly overrated. Brooking was a tad overrated but still solid.Vick was simply a hard guy to wrap your brain around, because he was so unlike anybody else. It was hard to quantify how much his ability to run made up for his mediocre passing skills. All I do know was he was 38-28-1 as a starter and took us to the NFC Championship Game, so for that reason I can’t call him overrated.
Beautiful Monte
June 30th, 2009
12:18 pm
Wow.
What a surprise.
Yet ANOTHER Mark Bradley column in which he expresses his undying love and support – not to mention his unspoken “great affection” – for the conVICKted felon who used to wear No. 7 for the Falcons.
In more news from the “dog bites man” department: Other Vickheads (the ones not named Mark Bradley) continue to point out that their lord and savior has the highest winning percentage in Falcon history.
Of course, that’s kind of like being the world’s tallest midget, but since they enjoy numbers so much, I have a couple of questions for the Vickheads:
1) Where did the Falcons’ “passing” offense rank in Vick’s last two seasons?
2) What was the Falcons’ record in Vick’s last two seasons?
If they are true to form, the Vickheads will respond by saying that their lord and savior was in no way responsible for the team’s horrible passing stats and mediocre record during the final two seasons of the Vick Error.
More than likely, they’ll blame it all on Keith Brooking.
michaelgee
June 30th, 2009
12:24 pm
Mark,
You contuinue to “dumb down” the sports intellect of Atlanta with yet another Vick / MeHall story.
The ability to wallow in the mire continues at the ajc. sheesh, why let Peerless price rest another day, then more about Petrino again on Thursday.
ajc writers will never let Atlanta get beyond having these mega-failures for heroes.
The Truth
June 30th, 2009
12:25 pm
Dan…you must be kidding. Being overrated or underrated has nothing to do with ticket sales or merchandise. He is far from being the number one player in Falcons history based on his statistics that you proclaim. Saying he is the most important player in Falcons history is like saying saying William Andrews was the greatest rusher of all time. Andrews, unfortunately, lost his career to injury not stupidity. Vick, great athlete who could run but he was not a good field general and had no accuracy on his passing one bit whatsoever.
Please wake up and stop smoking the illegal stuff man…..
rhynster
June 30th, 2009
12:25 pm
There has been alot of revisionist history regarding Vick.
He was exciting, and he made plays that no one else could make.
He doesn’t need to be Peyton Manning or Johnny Unitas.
He just needs that X-factor that made him a winner.
Only problem is that nobody knows if he still has it after the last couple of years.
Chesterfield Unry
June 30th, 2009
12:28 pm
MV had running and throwing (notice I didn’t say passing) talent but lacked leadership qualities on and off the field. For so long, MV’s physical talent made up for his clear lack of mental skills. In the NFL, all gets vetted.
MV’s physical talent was never underrated, but his lack of leadership skills was overlooked by many.
Name (required)
June 30th, 2009
12:36 pm
Good god….all the Ron Mexico apologists are sickening.
wxwax
June 30th, 2009
12:37 pm
Michael Vick twice brought playoff success to the Atlanta Falcons. No question that had Dan Reeves stayed, Vick would have been a more consistent, productive quarterback. (Ultimately, however, he would still have self-destructed – it was in his DNA.)
I’m as interested in Bobby Petrino’s opinion of Vick’s upside as I am Tommy Bowden’s. Petrino is a college coach who was the Flying Dutchman of the NFL — adrift, lost and more likely to sink than make port. His opinion has no value whatsoever.
A George
June 30th, 2009
12:46 pm
Falcon fans really seem to forget all the great moments Michael gave us. I remember him in the Dallas loss. What about the Pittsburgh game. He did struggle against some teams, but the offensive line was horrible. Also, the defense was even worse. Michael only had ONE losing season as a Falcon…. something no other quarterback could ever say. I would argue he is the only Falcon quarterback with a winning record!!!
mdk
June 30th, 2009
12:48 pm
More to Vick than just the dog fighting conviction –
The Mike Vick conviction incident has been talked about until, if you are like me, folks skip over the print that reminds us who Mike Vick is and why he’s being written about. This will no doubt be written on his tombstone. But let’s remember the events preceding this where die hard football fans began losing confidence in his ability to LEAD the Falcons.
Dan Reeves once said that Michael Vick was a natural leader and many of his team mates gravitated to him. This is a fact that I cannot dispute for I have the utmost respect for Dan Reeves as a person. However, leaders have the ability to lead in several different directions and obviously pull his followers with him.
The on-field examples of poor leadership were displayed in different ways:
– “The Fingers”
– Ignoring OC Knapp on sideline
– Never conversing with teammates
– The ultimate – Who can forget the game late in his last season when the Falcons needed two scores to stay in the game. The Falcons were driving with minutes left in the 4th quarter. Vick scrambled for the necessary yardage to become the 1st QB to rush for 1000 yards in a season. He began celebrating by raising his arms in the air while slowly jogging back to the huddle. By the way, we lost the game.
The off-field examples of poor leadership have been well chronicled:
– The Ron Mexico incident
– The water bottle incident
– Trespassing to fish on a private lake
– Not showing up for public commitments
My kids were Michael Vick fans. Who could say that he wasn’t the most exciting player in the league! But after he used the finger(s) to his own fans and the personal record celebration, the two young Vick fans were no more. Again, this preceded any federal charges.
A leader takes a vision and sells it to his/her followers. Great leaders do not always support a noble cause (i.e.; Hitler). What was Michael Vick’s cause? Was it team oriented?
To take a much often used saying from the Spider-Man movie: “With great power comes great responsibility.” Michael Vick did not understand this. Let’s hope he gets it in his next chapter. After-all, he is a natural leader.
TIGER TIME
June 30th, 2009
12:48 pm
That is atrue statement if there ever was one.Wheres Al Sharpton race monger and savior for all blackfolks.
Ken Stallings
June 30th, 2009
12:50 pm
It’s hard for me to focus on Michael Vick’s play on the field. Because I’m one of those folks who think character does matter. It wasn’t just Vick’s infamous dog ring. He started giving me the creeps with his “Ron Mexico” sex-capades. Not even caring enough to avoid infecting a woman with STD goes to the heart of whether someone has the basic moral chemistry of a human being!
But then said person reveals the depth of the depravity when for the sake of money, he dons that jersey for a commercial, with Nike continuing their slide to hell with a marketing campaign attached to the alias he treated the Herpes under!
People like these bask in the limelight of noteriety. They seem to glorify in their ability to “get away” with offensive behavior.
It was at this point I realized the path Vick was on even as I underestimated how badly he screw up his future. I don’t believe people who lack such basic morality can succeed in anything, particularly a game that puts a premium on challenging one’s ability to lead others and endure hardship and adversity.
A player doesn’t need to be a saint. Groupies in locker rooms is a known thing. But womanizing in and of itself isn’t what Vick managed to revel in. He and his “posse” seemed constantly on the lookout for opportunities to flaunt law, such as the “false bottomed water bottle,” or the “theft of the Rolex” from a security screener. One can unfortunately add to this list.
I firmly believe a prime reason why Vick never seemed able to lead a team past expectations is that he lacked the character to endure. He was a spoiled athlete who too frequently survived legal offenses that would have ruined most people. He got his second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth chances and it emboldened him to think his talent made his special, above the law.
That’s not the kind of person who can lead a team to a Super Bowl and win it. There’s a difference between “chasing skirts,” and raping women! The physical act may be similar, but it’s all about the methods involved! With Mike Vick, the methods involved went past all boundaries.
A George
June 30th, 2009
12:59 pm
Wow, it is really amazing all the God fearing perfect people who watch football games!!! Michael made a lot of mistakes.. but mistakes have followed many men who had nothing, then overnight they got fame and fortune. The people who want Mike banned for life, well what about Stallworth???? Okay, he was drunk and killed somebody, but he should play – because he is not a convicted felon? I really want Mike to come back to the league (I really wish Tampa Bay) and kill the Falcons EVERY time he plays them. You bandwagon fans are the same ones who were so happy when he won games with his athletic ability – and I mean really when he beat Minn, Carolina, etc. on last second plays!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chesterfield Unry
June 30th, 2009
1:00 pm
mdk
I don’t recall Dan Reeves saying MV was a “natural leader” but I won’t dispute you on it either. What I will add to your fine commentary is my own interpretation of that Reeves comment. Reeves clearly knew what MV would need, and was lacking, to bring consistent success to the Falcons – leadership. MV’s physical talents impressed other players but any “natural leadership” Reeves may have been referring to should probably be interpreted as “what MV needs to improve” or “what the Falcons may miss with MV.”
Jables
June 30th, 2009
1:02 pm
Um…for those who smack talk KB, how quickly we forget: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0608/gallery.nfl.most.feared/content.4.html
Vick sucks. Hall sucks. KB was a beast and the leader for a team that needed one desperately in recent years. Bugger off, the whole lot of you!
in the biz
June 30th, 2009
1:04 pm
For your next list, how about overrated AJC columnists …
1) Furman bisher
2) Bradley/Schultz – aren’t they just the same guy anyway
3) Terrence Moore – third because he’s now both irrelevant AND gone..
Whopper Dawg
June 30th, 2009
1:05 pm
I would swap DHalll with Vick, but otherwise I don’t have a problem with the rankings. Mark, you have hit rock bottom if you need a statement by Bobby Petrino in regard to professional football to support your position.
That first time I saw Matt Ryan play for the Falcons, I almost cried it had been so long since I have seen a Falcons QB actually do QB things. Read a defense, ball fake, step up in the pocket – It was a wondrous day.
hem o'roid
June 30th, 2009
1:07 pm
Some are snotty, some are slick—to sum up stupid, say michael vick. Selah
Chuck
June 30th, 2009
1:20 pm
Good point about the West Coast offense – it was a disasterous fit for his playing style. Dan Reeves’ offense was a much, much better match.
Jfreak
June 30th, 2009
1:23 pm
I love Michael Vick for what he ment to this Franchise! Remember where we were prior to Vick and Blank?? Of course Vick made some bad decisions off the field that caused this same franchise harm but all in all Vick to me was not over-rated but I wouldn’t trade Matt Ryan for three michael vicks. I wish Vick well and hope that he gets a chance to play again, but we’ve moved on to better things.
jarvis
June 30th, 2009
1:38 pm
How can someone say Deion was overrated? He’s the best cover corner in the history of the league. He may not have been a great tackeler, but it didn’t come up that often since his man never seemed to have the ball.
Al Beeski
June 30th, 2009
1:46 pm
MB,
Really agree with your take on all 3 dirty birds, especially MV7; bottom line he won games with his ability that NO OTHER Qb in history has been able to do.Weird list; b/c how in da world/who in da world rated Deshaun Foster in the 1st place. Anybody that runs for 2 staxx (j.lewis)in a single season can’t be overrated. SORRY, that’s not gonna fly. Tough to justify others, (WHO IN DA #$%# RATED Freddy Jones II) because the only way to be overrated is get rated in the 1st place. And basically, the media has to rate someone in the 1st place. But everyone knows that the mothership recognizes a slow season so they create all kinds of lists, etc. to get arguments and promote ESPYs.
Vick Supporter
June 30th, 2009
1:53 pm
It’s good to see people actually saying positive things about The Great Mike Vick. Can’t blog with u guys right now…I’m actually working,lol
RedTailHawk
June 30th, 2009
2:04 pm
MAXWELL SNARK: “NEWS FOR YOU – sitting in jail involutarily IS paing your debt to society. If you want to go further, it is an option, NOT a requirement.Heard of the phrase “paying your debt to society”?
A. CALHOUN: Yeah, let’s be fair. We should lock up all illegal drug users. Let’s see, that would be about 40% of all Americans (including marijuana users, and prescription drug abusers). That would be about 80% of MLB players.
Now lets lock up all the illegal gamblers: That would be about 50% of Americans. (including office pool betters, casual betters, internet poker players, etc.) Oh, and if you consult anyone about a bet lets add RICO charges for conspiracy and racketeering.
Just want to be fair and make sure all you righteous self-serving criminals get your just due..
Reid Adair
June 30th, 2009
2:06 pm
Mark, I will agree with you somewhat about the former #7. He was good at what he could do, and that did win some football games. However, his passing was atrocious. He was terrible at reading receivers and working with timing routes. The whole concept of “Go deep and I’ll throw it to you” was nice when they could hit a big play, but otherwise, it was sad.
He may have “terrorized” some defenses in the league, but I seem to recall that the Bucs usually kept him in check pretty good.
"VICK & OBAMA SUPPORTER" $upporter (i.e. Taxpayer)
June 30th, 2009
2:13 pm
There is ONLY ONE area where Michael Vick has lived up to his enormous potential:
The Redistribution of STDs
Saabotager
June 30th, 2009
2:14 pm
Give Vick a break. He is stupid definitely not overrated!!! He led a team ranked 17th in the NFL to the NFC Championship game. What more do you want him to do. Vick did it all on his natural athleticism. Vick was always surrounded by mediocre talents. From the top with Rich McKay and his suck-”a” drafts and trades; to a rookie head coach who wanted to be friends instead of a leader; and to the weak-”a” offensive line, runnning backs, and wide receivers. He was thrown from the frying pan to the fire. I think he could have grown into a decent quarterback under the right coach, especially if Dan Reeves was kept on. Mora Jr. was not the guy to help Vick get to that next level. Dan Reeves had a plan and a system that never materialized because Blank was in a hurry to get all he could get out of Vick before it was too late. Blank saw his opportuinty to make quick money. Blank knew Vick had deviant potential. That is why he assigned Billy (White Shoes) Johnson to mentor Vick. Blank is a shrewd businessman who saw opportunity $$$$$ in Vick and he wanted capitalize on it before it was too late. (I love the Benjamins too!) Vick surprised us all. Don’t blame Vick because the coaching staff couldn’t coach him up. Vick won games and made a lot of people some money, namely the NFL and Arthur Blank. As far as being over-rated I don’t buy it. Make a new top ten list, “The Top Ten Stupidess Atheletes.” Now he belongs on that list not an overrated list.
Zoomie
June 30th, 2009
2:20 pm
One small point: MV didn’t go through what he’s been through because of mistakes. Accidentally running over someone’s dog while backing out of his driveway would be considered a mistake. Investing his money with Bernie Madoff could’ve been classified a mistake. What he did was deliberately engage in criminal conduct. That’s not a “mistake.”
What!!!
June 30th, 2009
2:21 pm
Mike Vick is gone, can we please get some blogs on Matty Ice?
He is the “new face” right?
Is he that insignificant?
Maybe he can win a couple of “play-off” games then maybe he will head up the “next decade” over-rated list.
TIGER TIME
June 30th, 2009
2:28 pm
How about Bret Farve as the most over-rated player of all time, he gets my vote hands down.
Mark Bradley
June 30th, 2009
2:31 pm
Here’s a little something I wrote regarding Brett Favre. The word “overrated” is prominent.
JSS
June 30th, 2009
2:35 pm
Ken… Does that same “moral” character comment go for men who infect their wives with the HP virus and are held up as the pinnacle of the college coaching profession and are then given that profession’s highest award? Also, he happens to be the highest paid State employee…
The whole Mark Sanford thing should give all of us pause to get out of other people’s bedroom… That whole Ron Mexico thing and the people who profited from it is the reason I knew that there were some that were going to “Jack Johnson” him eventually. Unfortunately, I gave Michael too much credit on one account. I thought he saw what most of us saw coming… And this is no excuse or conspiracy issue, Mr. Vick put himself in the position and did it to himself in terms of the dog fighting… Nevertheless, the hypocrisy reeks to high heaven…
A CITY OF RACIST!!!
June 30th, 2009
2:37 pm
MARK! no life yet? vick, hall and brook are gone about theirs. YOU NEED TO REALLY GET A ****ING LIFE.
A CITY OF RACIST!!!
June 30th, 2009
2:41 pm
MATTY ICE CREAM WILL MELT IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS….GO MARK….YOU ACTUALLY SIT AROUND AND THINK OF THINGS TO LOOK BACK ON. VICK IS GONE, HALL IS GONE, BROOK IS GONE….WHY CAN’T YOU JUST LEAVE THE AJC?
Vick Supporter
June 30th, 2009
2:43 pm
My God….you people never talk about Matty Ice. Why don;t ya’ll do a blog on him for once. He’s your “Franchise,lol” QB for God’s sake. Vick is going to do his thing when he gets back on the field, guranteed.
Vick 09
Cnote
June 30th, 2009
2:43 pm
Vick was not overrated to me. I have been a season ticket holder for 9 years and he played a major role in that. I also remember when Vick was hurt all season then came back for the last four games and won 3 of them. If Vick didnt matter to the team, the team never would have fallen apart without him. They were lost for a reason. They were missing their LEADER. The funnest thing people can say is he was not a leader. Hell, I remember him taking over pro-bowls!! It was assume what he could do with all-pro receivers. If he wasnt so special, his activities would not have mattered as much to the media. I love Matt Ryan, but it was a sad day when Vick was officially released. I cant wait to watch him play again, no matter who he plays for. I’ll bet it will be just like Atlanta was. He will neveer play for a crowd that isnt SOLD OUT. Did he do it here? Marinate on that. But this is the same city that drove Chandler out after a Superbowl. Hater capitol of the World, including the media.
Vick Supporter
June 30th, 2009
2:46 pm
Cnote….you just laid it down man, Thats the f;ing truth
What!!!
June 30th, 2009
2:49 pm
Matt Ryan
Ryan Leaf
Joey Harrington
Dan Mcgwire
Carson Palmer
Jay Cutler
What do they all have in common?
They all combined, have “zero” play-off wins!
What!!!
June 30th, 2009
2:59 pm
D-Hall over-rated?
Can anyone tell me in the history of the NFL that 1-player in a 12-month or less time frame could sign contracts of 72-million & 56-million?
I don’t think D-Hall cares much about what you people think, especially when he looks at his bank account
Chesterfield Unry
June 30th, 2009
3:00 pm
What???
You might want to give Mr. Ice a coupla seasons, hoss. Know what I mean?
VICK SUPPORTER 2
June 30th, 2009
3:23 pm
MV7 OVERRATED??!!
JUST LOOK AT HIS BANK ACCOUNT AND……….
WELL, HE STILL HAS HIS CONTRACT SO……….
WAIT A MINUTE………..WHERE AM I?
AC
June 30th, 2009
3:32 pm
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blog. Who cares? What about the team know. Vick is gone and I do not think he was overrated. He was what everyone thought he was. No one dreamed of Vick becoming Peyton Manning. He screwed up. Does that mean he was overrated?
I think the error was in the system he was in. Anyway, MOVE ON.
I'm back...
June 30th, 2009
3:46 pm
Matt Ryan is white.
Tate
June 30th, 2009
3:48 pm
Vick Supporter -
Was the ability to pass a rudimentary English class NOT a requirement for your high-paying, Affirmative-Action job with Cisco you like to come on these blogs and brag about so often?
Your communication “skillz” are quite poor, VS.
I'm back...
June 30th, 2009
4:38 pm
Vick is not white.
Vick = Michael Jackson
June 30th, 2009
4:48 pm
BREAKING NEWS: Michael Vick Leaves Construction Job to Work with Young Boys
PROOF!
Michael Vick IS the new Michael Jackson!
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4297245
Lynn
June 30th, 2009
5:35 pm
The AJC clearly loves #7 and needs him to keep afloat. This pathetic attempt to use ANOTHER blog to spur movement on THIS one is funny but hey, ya gotta eat don’t cha Mark Bradley?? Can’t hate on your hustle! LOL – you gotta do what you gotta do…journalism ethics be damned! LOL
Famuan
June 30th, 2009
5:47 pm
The AJC never did secure a picture or video of MV working on any construction site in VA….oh well! Don’t worry! You’ll have some of him working with smiling excited children next week! LOL But I bet you won’t print those if you do! LOL
Benjamin
June 30th, 2009
5:56 pm
I don’t agree on the Brooking opinion. I agree with the D. Hall selection — never thought the guy was worth the hype he received — and, to an extent, the Vick selection, though I think that his off-field problems of the past few years probably aided that. He was a guy who, like you said, won games based on his sheer athletic ability, not to mention the intimidation factor that came along with it.
Any time he had the ball, he could beat you…. he simply wasn’t the prototypical style of quarterback, and thus gets dinged by some for that reason.
VICK SUPPORTER 2
June 30th, 2009
7:46 pm
I agree. DHall is and never was a “shutdown” corner, and anytime a team takes a gamble on him they will find out that just doesn’t live up to the hype. I almost voted for Vick who was extremely overrated; however, DHall overshadows the dogfighter in this conversation. Thank god, MattyIce is the QB for this team.
Signed,
Vick Supporter 2
mars
June 30th, 2009
8:03 pm
Hey, Mark? Where is your blog from yesterday? You know, the one about the falcons receiving too much preseason praise. Doesn’t appear to be on your list of recent blogs (see top of page, to the left).
Mark Bradley
June 30th, 2009
8:10 pm
The archive only lists the 10 most recent posts, Mars. That one was from last week. But here it is. Thanks for asking.
mars
June 30th, 2009
9:00 pm
Thank you.
What!!!
June 30th, 2009
9:35 pm
Sorry for delay guys – my library card expired and my Mom’s electricity was shut off, but here I am.
Anyway, Matty Ice clearly choked in the playoffs last season, but even if he chokes again this season, at least we have a white quarterback.
Go Falcons!
Yeah yeah – I know I’m stupid.
What!!!
June 30th, 2009
9:43 pm
2011 NFL Lockout…………
All the NFL players will play in the UFL
Najeh Davenpoop
June 30th, 2009
10:16 pm
I find myself agreeing more and more with Mark Bradley when it comes to football, and I mostly agree here too. DeAngelo Hall was overrated mainly because he couldn’t play zone and he thought he was a million times better than he actually was, although I still think he’s a good man corner. Brooking is maybe slightly overrated when you look at his rep versus his production, but he still has had a solid if not spectacular career. Vick is only overrated if you look at stats — if you look at his impact on the game compared to the impact of other big time QBs on the game, as far as defensive preparation, etc. he was a top ten (maybe top five) QB at his best. John Elway had mediocre stats for most of his career too, and nobody disputes his place among the all time greats.
crabapplejoe
June 30th, 2009
10:36 pm
Well now, of the three candidates only one went to five Pro-Bowls and only one will be in the Falcon Ring of Honor…so I would say he was not overrated. As far as you folks who say he couldn’t cover….he had 12 career interceptions to the beloved Tuggle’s six….but I’ve never seen a post saying Tuggle couldn’t cover….makes you go hmmmmmmm. But you haters never let facts and statistics get in the way of your prejudice….maybe if KB56 would grow dreadlocks and always have a scowl on his face ya’ll might like him better…LOL
Bigeasy830
June 30th, 2009
10:37 pm
ESPN and the sports pages in the local paper use to be good at informing the viewers and readers about sports. Now, it’s all tabloid stuff. Who cares about your opinions. Just give the facts. comparing MV7 to Tyler Thigen is insane. He has a better QB rating than many Hall of Fame QBs and a very good winning percentage and lead his team deep into the play-offs. Plus the Georgia Dome was sold out every game he started and he was until he was arrested the most exciting player in the NFL, so to call him a disappointment is an opinion but facts seem to show other wise. But anyway we will see who will be the over hyped player of 2009 after the season. To call Matt Ryan the best franchise player under 30 over Big Ben, Joe Flacco, Eli Manning and Phillip Rivers and the weak armed chump is yet to win a play-off game is a bit of a stretch. So we will see how he will be viewed after the Falcons go 4-12.
The Falcons 2009, 4-12, Back to Life, Back to Reality.
Wacko Jacko
July 1st, 2009
10:12 am
Michael Vick Leaves Construction Job to Go “Work” with Young Boys???
Yes, the new Michael Jackson has arrived.
Michael Vick
July 1st, 2009
2:25 pm
“PEOPLE ALL OVER DA WORLD LOVE MIKE VICK.”
DrJ
July 1st, 2009
3:06 pm
Like Reality, I thought defenses had caught up with Vick, and he didn’t have a passing game, and the Falcons didn’t have a strong running game to overcome that problem. He is such a great runner, I wonder if he would come back as a receiver?
What!!!
July 1st, 2009
6:20 pm
If the Falcons don’t make it to the playoffs or win a playoff game, whose fault will it be?
OWNER
GM
COACH
QUARTERBACK
Who will take responsibility?
Will Matt Ryan ever be held responsible if after 2-full seasons as a starter with no playoff wins?
Will it be everybody else’s fault?
Would the leader be held accountable?
Who is the leader?
cake daddy
July 3rd, 2009
3:04 am
vick is the falcon alltime win qb and said he overrated all yall crazy
BROWNIE ON TOP
July 3rd, 2009
9:20 am
I am a MIKE VICK fan…and i feel he should be given a second chance to play,we have players that have taken a HUMAN LIFE,,and given 30 Days…WOW!!! but MV kill a dog or dogs u want to throw the book at him, and taken everything he worked for.PLZ PEOPLE GIVE ME A FREAKY BREAK..WHO ARE WE TO JUDGE,,