The new Bobby Cox? He’s managing the Red Sox
Of Bobby Cox, I’ve maintained — sorry to be quoting my silly self here, but know no way around it — he’s the best manager I’ve ever seen and the best I’ll ever see. But now I’m thinking maybe only the first part applies.
Because Terry Francona has Bobby Cox written all over him, and I mean that as the highest possible compliment.
Francona manages the Red Sox, and that’s a job unlike any other in sports. “I don’t think anything prepares you for Boston,” Francona said Saturday, speaking before Game 2 of his team’s series at Turner Field. But then, in almost the same breath, he admitted that maybe something did help ready him for Red Sox Nation.
The Red Sox have and have had a slew of good players in Francona’s five-plus seasons — Manny, Big Papi, Pedro, Beckett, Schilling, Papelbon, Pedroia, even Nomar — but none of them was, is or will ever be the greatest athlete this manager has managed. See, Francona had Michael Jordan.
The year was 1994, and Jordan was a Birmingham Baron. Francona was the manager, and he learned early about the caring and feeding of the mass — and massively hysterical — media. “The situation was kind of unique,” he said. “I had to deal with more media than a minor-league manager is used to. That was good training.”
He laughed. “Before Michael got there, the Birmingham [media] was {two print reporters], and they’d come down and ask a couple of questions and then go eat.”
As for dealing with MJ himself: “There were many people wanting to get at him. I can’t imagine going through that … I was shocked at how someone could handle what he had to handle … I really think he enjoyed being on the bus [Jordan rented a special one for the Barons] and playing dominoes or cards. For those 10 hours, nobody could get at him.”
In Boston, the Sox are Rock Stars, same as Jordan was whenever he roamed. Handling MJ was essentially a pilot film on how to handle the RS and, as Francona said, “You try to learn from everything.”
It helps, too, that he’s a great baseball man. His dad, Tito Francona, was a big-leaguer (and even an Atlanta Brave) of note — the younger Francona is invariably called “Tito” by his players — and Terry had a promising future as a Expo truncated by a knee injury. He managed the Phillies and was fired for no real reason, and in his first four seasons in Boston he twice won the World Series.
He has the Cox touch with his players — he worried about giving outfielder Jason Bay, who hates to sit, Saturday off — but has that Red Sox thing about numbers. (Francona also noted Bay had hit only .167 against Javier Vazquez.) He travels not just with a BlackBerry but with a laptop and a printer. He’s a lifelong baseball man who’s suitably 21st Century.
And that’s what I see Terry “Tito” Francona becoming — the Bobby Cox of the 21st Century. He has in Boston the resources to win for a good long while, the same as Cox did here. And that’s also why, should the Braves ever need a new manager, I’d look first to Brad Mills.
He’s Tito’s bench coach. He was once Tito’s roommate. If Tito is the next Bobby, then maybe Mills is the next Tito.
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107 comments Add your comment
Phil
June 29th, 2009
10:47 am
Torre has 4 WS titles. Sparky Anderson has 3 WS titles. LaRussa has 2 WS tiltes. Earl Weaver has 1 WS title, same as Cox. But as you pointed out Bradley, Cox has 15 division titles. That’s more than any of those other guys. Sparky had 7 division titles. With 15 chances, don’t you think the GREATEST manager of all time could win more than 1?? He should have more than Sparky’s 3 don’t you think?
I’m guessing math wasn’t your best subject in school.
Carnac The Adequate
June 29th, 2009
10:49 am
The ANSWER IS: “The Slugger’s Wife”
—————————————
The QUESTION: What is the nickname within the Braves organization for Mrs. Bobby Cox ?
NC Braves Fan
June 29th, 2009
10:50 am
Torre is a great manager, but the Yankees haven’t done squat in the postseason since the late 1990s – and his ability to bring a title to Tinseltown remains yet to be seen.
Does that mean he’s not as good as he used to be, or that he does not have the caliber of players he once did?
azcat225
June 29th, 2009
10:50 am
I’ve followed Terry’s career since his playing days at the University of Arizona, including a national championship his senior year. He hasn’t changed a bit over the years and will in all likelihood be at the helm for the BoSox as long as he desires. It’s nice to see good people do well.
Concerned Brave
June 29th, 2009
10:52 am
Does being a players manager mean playing Kelly Johnson, putting up with Garrett Anderson’s lolly gagging, accepting a team with no heart. This team sucks from the top down. I agree with trading Chipper for some young talent like Texas screwed us out of. Cox has under-achieved with the staff he had over the years. I think it is because he is to soft on the players. I would rather have a manger that puts winning first no matter if he has to trade players that don’t hustle and know how to play the game.
LSU
June 29th, 2009
10:53 am
MB,
I think you highly underestimate the postseason. Isn’t it the goal of every team to win the last baseball game played in the season, including postseason? Did you really feel a great since of accomplishment over that 15 year span and only 1 WS title at the time it was all going on?
I didn’t, it left me with kind of an empty feeling, especially with ownership retaining and spending $$$ to attain whatever players Bobby needed to win that last game, in which he failed 14 out of 15 times.
I’d personally trade 12 (stupidly maybe) of those regular season titles for 2 more WS titles.
Duke Yellowjacket
June 29th, 2009
11:06 am
Brad:
While I agree with you about Tito’s outstanding managerial skills, serious health issues will likely prevent him from staying at the helm too much longer. Look for long-time friend and bench coach Brad Mills to become manager of the Red Sox within the next couple of years.
THWG!
Mac
June 29th, 2009
11:07 am
I was living in Birmingham when Francona was managing there. It was obvious, even then, he was headed for big things.
elroy
June 29th, 2009
11:11 am
I can stand to get beat like a rug. What I can’t stand to see is player who don’t hustle down the firstbase line, outfielders who don’t come in to back up a base, and players who go brain dead (johnson). Red Sox batters put on a clinic, especially 1 and 2,with the way they work a pitcher. It seemed that the no. 3 hitter got to see every pitch by the time he got into the box.
Helluva Engineer
June 29th, 2009
11:14 am
Question…..
Would Kelly Johnson be starting for any other MLB team????
Jay
June 29th, 2009
11:15 am
LSU – you’re basically saying you’d rather be the Florida Marlisn than what the Braves had? I guess there’s something to that.
As for Bobby, many have pointed out – his greatest failure is that he managed the post season like the regular season, yes, sticking with players too long and not playing the hot hand. I have never been enamored of his bullpen management. I always thought he overused certain relievers and had a tendency sometimes to use closers when he shouldn’t, but… overall, you can’t argue with the success when he had major league players and he’s a shoo-in for HOF. Best ever? No, but, among them.
We can all argue with specific game decisions, but, he’s gotten many more right than wrong.
I hope that if another big bat is not provided to this team (and soon), that Bobby will relook at his lineup and decide how he’s going to get more speed on the basepaths and improve the defense, so that we win most of the 3-1, 4-2 games, rather than being on the other end. That’s probably going to require a lineup that features more Prado, Infante, Diaz, and Blanco ultimately. This makes Kotchman and Anderson the odd men out (maybe we can get something for Anderson).
BTW – Derosa is the answer to a question no one asked.
cjbreed
June 29th, 2009
11:18 am
let’s see the juggernaut of money spent on the yankees and red sox make terry francona and joe torroe jokes. they were handle championships(in torre’s case steriods for his players too). the only managers at bobby’s level or above are tony larussa and jim leyland.
cjbreed
June 29th, 2009
11:19 am
LSU and it’s bayuooo rat fans suc*
Hoosier Aaron
June 29th, 2009
11:20 am
I’m not sure who the Best Manager of all time is but (in my opinion) if 6 teams all had the exact same talent – Tommy Lasorda would get more out of those players than any mentioned above.
Now seriously..
C’mon – If Yuney gets pulled for bone-head plays then Kelly should too.
Besides – Kelly is giving us nothing with the bat.
Call up Chris Burke – do something…
This division is horrible and our pitching is lights-out and we’re doing nothing to try to win.
Oregon Brave
June 29th, 2009
11:44 am
You are so wrong about Bobby. I like Bobby. Reminds me of my father-in-law. But he is a bad manager of a baseball team. JF and DA are two of the laziest outfielders I’ve ever seen. KJ is not a major league 2b. And YE does not have a baseball players mentallity. Why doesn’t Bobby get as upset with his players and coaches (especially his coaches) as he does with the umps? Yeah, Bobby is a players coach alright. A lazy player. Nothing is expected of these chumps and nothing is demanded. TP
hinted that a few weeks ago when he said sooner or later the batter has got to take it upon himself to step up. A good manager would have heard that and reacted. As in new expectations and demands. Why can’t these players, coaches and managers understand that what they do is a dream every MLB fan from little kids to old men would die for the opportunity to spend one game on the field, in the dugout and the clubhouse? All the while I’m sitting up here in Oregon watching dink hits behind second and dribblers thru the infield to left go for doubles. Maybe you are right Mark. Maybe Bobby’s greatness just makes the players look worse than they really are.
HoJo
June 29th, 2009
11:59 am
You’ve got to be kidding right? First off Francona is BETTER than Cox. The guy’s won two World Series in the last 4 years and might win another this year. Cox is an absolutely miserable playoff manager, one of the worst ever. You can defend him all you want but we had incredible teams in the ’90s with hall of fame pitching and we BARELY won a World Series. We came up short 13 other times. The playoffs is where managing matters and Bobby consistently showed that what he was best at was handing the ball to John, Tom or Greg and saying “Go beat the Expos”. Think about it, we had three 1st ballot hall of fame pitchers for ten years and all we were good at was beating up on the National Leagues sisters of the poor and then losing in the playoffs. Man, Cox IS awesome. Please, spare me. Joe Torre did a much better job under much more difficult circumstances…and in NEW YORK!!!
Don
June 29th, 2009
12:08 pm
Cox has never developed good run producting teams — How can you defend his complete lack of understanding or implementation of the first absoulte necessity of run production — teaching/emphasizing/demanding that your hitters work the count – make the opposing pitcher throw a lot of pitches. Cox has never done this. This is absolutely essentil to having a good run producint team – has multiple advantages – enables your hitters to see what he has, adjust to him, get better pitches to hit, forces him to make mistakes, tires him out both within innings and for the game, gets you into the teams weak middle relief etc. It is absolutely unbelievable that Cox does not understand and develop this. Right now the Braves are next to LAST IN ALL OF BASEBALL IN AVERAGE NUMBER OF PITCHES SEEN PER AT BAT – which GURARENTEES they will have terrible run production.
Mark Bradley
June 29th, 2009
12:10 pm
Imagine how great Cox would be if he’d hired Greg Knapp to coordinate his offense.
Don
June 29th, 2009
12:13 pm
Isn’t it strange that players who are brought up or acquired by other teams continue to signifucantly improve — While those acquired or brought up by the Braves usually get worse. No mystery — Bobby Cox does not teach/ emphasize/ demand the absolute necessity of correct approach to hitting (working the count – making the opposing pitcher throw a lot of pitches). Braves are right now second to last in all of baseball in average number of pitches seen per at bat – which guarentees that they will have terrible run production. Do baseball writers who defend Cox not understand this either — It’s like 2 + 2 = 4.
Atticus
June 29th, 2009
12:27 pm
I agree, the regular season is a greater measure of a manager’s success. But think about it, how can a team win 14 division titles and only ONE WS. You almost have to try and lose to be able to do that. He made a mistake with Charlie Liebrandt and that cost us. Other than that, he was just plain unlucky (Lonnie Smith, Wohlers etc…)
But if he gets credit for the success of the regular seasons, how about 4 straight years without a good regular season. He is not the manager for this team anymore he is not hungry enough. You can’t manage the same every year. Sometimes it requires a different stratagey, different players require different psychology and he just doesn’t get much out of young players. He just doesn’t seem to want to work at it and motivate and light a fire by creating runs.
Something is wrong with Chipper too.
Phil
June 29th, 2009
12:40 pm
Time has certainly passed for Cox, I think most logical people would agree on this. As it has for Bobby Bowden and others that hang on forever. If you say Cox has earned the right to leave when he wants to, then the Braves will continue this trend until he retires. And Cox has hinted that he may keep going. He may decide to stay another 5-10 years. Can you Cox supporters take another 5-10 years of this mess? I had enough 10 years ago.
Don
June 29th, 2009
12:47 pm
How can you just ignore that fact that the Braves are next to last in all of baseball in average number of pitches seen per at bat – and that this is typical Bobby Cox. Do you like Cox not have a clue not understand that this guarantees that you will have terrible run production – violates of first absolute essential of offense – working the count and making the opposing pitcher throw a lot of pitches. Cox has never taught/ developed/ emphasied/ demanded/ implemented this – which is complete incompetence and is unbelievable. This enables your hitters to see what the pitcher has, adjust to him, get better pitches to hit, make him make mistakes, tire him out, get into the teams weak middle relief etc. etc. Not to do this shows a complete lack of understanding of winning baseball.
Mark Bradley
June 29th, 2009
12:52 pm
Don, that’s simply not true about players never improving here. Think of John Burkett. Think of Matt Diaz, who was cut in Tampa. Think of Kerry Ligtenberg, who came here in a deal for balls and bats (literally). Think of Terry Pendleton, who arrived and won a batting championship and the MVP award. Think of Jaret Wright and Chris Hammond, pitchers who became hot free agents because of what they did as Braves. Think of Otis Nixon, who was a fourth outfielder in Montreal.
Phil
June 29th, 2009
12:54 pm
Don,
Bradley can/will ignore all the facts you throw at him. Just like the fact that Sparky Anderson won 3 WS titles in 7 attempts where Cox only won 1 in 15 attempts. They can’t defend things like that where the numbers don’t lie, they will just ignore them.
Ralph
June 29th, 2009
1:00 pm
I don’t think I need to comment any further than 65 of the 73 previous comments, they have said it all. Mark you are as much in the tank for Braves Management as the elite media are for Obama if fact you are so much out of touch with the real world that I question weather I should bother to read your BLOGs anymore.
Mac
June 29th, 2009
1:10 pm
Um, Bobby Cox hasn’t managed in 15 World Series. Thanks for the hyperbole, though.
LSU
June 29th, 2009
1:22 pm
MB,
I know you’ve said before that you don’t know much about the folks who run Liberty, but do you or anyone you may know have any insight as to whether Liberty will sell the Braves in a couple of years?
Phil
June 29th, 2009
1:26 pm
15 playoff appearances = 15 attempts at a World Series title. Does that make better sense? Like I said, you can’t defend the numbers, so try and mix words ang ignore the facts.
Braves Mom
June 29th, 2009
1:36 pm
To all of you bashing Bobby, I guess you missed the Sports Illustrated article where MLB players were polled on which manager they’d most like to play for other than their own, Bobby was the top pick, by a long shot.
So, I for one, am choosing to agree with the people actually IN MLB and w/ Mr. Bradley.
Bobby is the best ever, I say that not only as a baseball fan but also as a person who has read lots of books and aritcles about leadership, not just from a baseball perspective.
Not to mention he is fourth all times in win, that doesn’t happen by mistake folks.
I’m sure Cooperstown will soon agree also.
Mac
June 29th, 2009
1:43 pm
No, it doesn’t. Also, it’s not “mix” words, it’s mince words. Bobby Cox needs no defending from hysterical bloggers. How close are you to making any hall of fame? What are your baseball bona fides? Your barbershop banter is not expert analysis. Thanks and have a nice life.
LSU
June 29th, 2009
1:45 pm
Braves Mom,
Could you possibly relay that info to the current Braves team. Looks like this years team and the last 3 teams are out to get the worlds greatest manager.
Phil
June 29th, 2009
1:51 pm
Braves Mom,
All lazy non-performing players would love to play for Cox. They get paid millions with no consequences, nothing is demanded from them. That poll didn’t surprise me at all.
Ken Stallings
June 29th, 2009
1:51 pm
Mark, there is a knee-jerk faction who loudly insist that Bobby Cox is a terrible manager. They will continue their criticism well past the time Cox is elected to the Hall of Fame!
The hard reality is that despite free agency, when the Braves committed themselves as an organization to pursue and keep the best players, and combine that with an enviable farm system, it could compete with the higher priced market teams like the Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, and Dodgers.
However, the team lost money most of those years. The same “fans” who want to blame it on Cox, fail to understand that it was the smaller market in Atlanta that eventually doomed the team. Turner had money issues arising from his Time-Warner relationship and it forced him to sell the team. Time-Warner then sold it to Liberty-Mutual.
The Yankees and Red Sox then went on a renewed bidding war and they decided to spend more money than any other AL team was physically capable of spending. The Mets have done likewise.
The result is surprising only in the sense the Mets still cannot even win their own division! The Red Sox and Yankees have turned the AL into their personal sandbox to play with the other toys. The Rays spoiled the show last season, but that’s the inevitable result of chance and a lot of prospects coming of age together.
The Rays are back to average again. And the Yankees and Red Sox are back to where they normally are — running roughshod over all opponents with all-star lineups in the field, the pen, and on the mound.
For the last three seasons the Braves kept winning their division, Cox took teams never considered contenders and shocked the baseball world by winning the NL East. That we couldn’t muster another run to the World Series doesn’t change the fact that high priced lineup with the Mets got managers and GM’s fired because they couldn’t beat the lower-priced lineups Cox put on the field.
Those efforts were the ultimate indication what Cox can do. But chewing gum and bailing wire cannot work miracles perpetually. Eventually, the bloom fell off the rose and now we cannot get “home team” discounts in free agency, which is why we could not get Tex to come back, and also why knowing this, we traded him.
We now have a lineup with one young stellar bat, one aging stellar bat, a young solid bat (McLouth) and a very irascible talented youth in Escobar who might have played his act too far for even Bobby. The rest of our daily lineup is middling and poor players. That isn’t Bobby’s fault. And the reason he plays Kelly Johnson is because he has speed and recognizing our near total lack of power, Cox knows speed is the only way we can score runs.
People who think managers like LaRussa could take the current Braves lineup and beat the Phillies and Mets with it are fools. Rather than LaRussa, give the Braves Albert Puhols! Put that bat in our lineup and suddenly Cox can do it himself!
Braves Mom
June 29th, 2009
1:56 pm
To LSU:
Seriously you think this year is Bobby’s fault?
Yes, I guess he should be able to go out there and hit for Frenchy, Kelly Johnson, Anderson, etc. etc. They are not winning b/c they have two, maybe three, players who are producing offensively.
And before you start screaming they shouldn’t be on the team, then blame Wren, Bobby is doing the best w/ the hand he’s been dealt.
I heard Mark Lemke once say that the coaches can only do so much, then it’s up to the players to go out and produce.
Take your argument up w/ Wren, Franceour, Johnson, Kotchman, Anderson, etc. etc. where the real blame lies.
Hoosier Aaron
June 29th, 2009
2:07 pm
Bobby Cox is certainly a Hall of Fame Manager.
However, in 72 AB in June, Kelly Johnson:
.125 BA
.167 Slg%
.229 OBP
5 Runs scored
2 SB
Speed isn’t really helping Kelly out or us.
I’ve gotta believe we have someone who could give us better production.
If not – call the Bucs about Freddy.
LSU
June 29th, 2009
2:11 pm
Braves Mom,
I think Wren has done a pretty good job basically concentrating solely last off-season on bringing in some quality pitchers, and getting rid of 40+ year old oft-injured pitchers.
So when this off season comes and he starts looking for position players, maybe he’ll do as well with that too, or, we’ll just continue the trend of becoming the National league version of the KC Royals and the fans will just go away because no one will care.
Phil
June 29th, 2009
2:32 pm
Braves Mom,
You honestly beleive that Wren makes roster decisions without approval from Cox? I don’t think so. Cox probably has more say so than Wren. Cox is not playing the hand that was dealt to him, he had a huge part in this as well.
Mark Bradley
June 29th, 2009
2:36 pm
I have never met or spoken with a single member of corporate Liberty Media. (Unless you count Terry McGuirk, which I don’t.) I have no idea what that group’s thinking might be, but I recall they had to keep the Braves for at least three years — I believe it was three years — to get their tax break.
VaBravesfan
June 29th, 2009
2:47 pm
Mr. Bradley: I agree with your 12:52 p.m. post, there are a bunch of guys who played better here than before or after they came/left.
VaBravesfan
June 29th, 2009
2:49 pm
Hoosier Aaron: Those stats are pathetic, I knew he was bad, but OMG.
Lori
June 29th, 2009
2:52 pm
Bobby may not have been able to beat the Yankees in the World Series, but he will split your lip open and black your eye if spill red wine on his new carpet while nagging him.
Mrs. Chanandler Bong
June 29th, 2009
3:03 pm
Good article as always, MB. Although all these people out here calling for Bobby’s head is starting to feel a little “broken record.” I think the majority of them missed the insinuation of one of your previous posts, where you purported that Bobby might not be the best manager for THIS 2009 Braves team. Bobby hasn’t changed — the players have. Now everyone’s going to say, “Well, Bobby should adjust, yell at them, not be the player’s manager, etc. or we should bring in someone who does.” But, I, for one, have always been proud of the fact that (overall) the Braves organization has been pretty classy and I think calling in someone else or having Bobby adjust would make us another Manny/Dodgers or Zambrano/Cubs organization.
Mark Bradley
June 29th, 2009
3:25 pm
Thanks, Mrs. CB.
Dumbfound
June 29th, 2009
3:51 pm
Why did Mark Texeria say Joe Giradi was the best manager he ever played for ?!!! He must have seen something in Bobby Cox that would lead him to say that !!!!!!!
Dumbfound
June 29th, 2009
3:53 pm
And not good things !!!
Skeezix
June 29th, 2009
4:01 pm
I really like Bobby Cox and think of him as a master at managing a game; but my all time favorite – Tommy LaSorda. I lived in the LA area for 3 years and used to go see the Braves when they visited the Dodgers. Fans waited each day for the sports radio/newpapers daily updates on LaSorda’s antics-he is a one of a kind character, can cuss a blue streak and was really entertaining. He also was a master at managing a game, a great motivator, most players loved playing for him, and I loved watching Tommy chew out umps, man could he chew out an ump…. the fans would cheer his perfomances.
Mrs. Chanandler Bong
June 29th, 2009
4:16 pm
Dumbfound: Tex also made mention of the fact that he felt honored to have played for Bobby and will always think of that year as special year because of Bobby.
Dumbfound
June 29th, 2009
4:22 pm
But if Tex said all of those nice things about Bobby Cox, Why did he not say he was also the best manager he ever played for ?!! Joe Giradi ?! Give me a break !! Joe Giradi was fired by the Florida Marlins. He was only a manager for about two years and now Mark Texeria is saying he’s the greatest ?! Something is not right !
LSU
June 29th, 2009
4:36 pm
Mrs. Bong
I would be nice if our classy organization could maybe put together an 8 game winning streak for old times sake.
Also while being classy during all those years, you don’t think that maybe Javy or Andruw might have participated in any Manny like activities, do you?
JEB
June 29th, 2009
5:02 pm
MB
Your assessment of Bobby Cox is right on!
It’s easy to sit on this side and view Bobby Cox up close on a regular basis and then compare him to others!
But, I was in Detroit in Sparky’s reign – he took the Tigers to the Worlds Series (after he had taken the big red machine to the series) and won with Detroit – yet there were those voices (much like here in Atl. ) that griped and complained – wanted him fired – and wanted someone else. Friends in the St. Louis area, continually harp and complain about LaRussa, and think he should move on (others love him!).
NY continually stayed on Torre’s back!
Getting to my point, we will miss Bobby GREATLY – after he is gone, there will be those looking for the 2nd resurrection of Bobby Cox (including the gripers and complainers)!
One thing I do not agree with you on MB –
it is not an issue whether Bobby is the man for this team – NOONE. I repeat NOONE could win with this team right now! There are TOO MANY obstacles on this team to win consistently. KJ and Frnchy have proved themselves to be “Head Cases” and they can’t play consistently well on this team (doubt they could for anyone!!)