Face Off: How the Braves can — repeat, can — win the East
They were 9 1/2 games back at the All-Star break in 1991, not even in second place. I know, it was a different time and a better Braves team, but still …
Can it happen? Sure it can.
The Braves are four games out of first place. They’re lucky to be that close, but sometimes you get lucky. They’ve played better these past six days, and there’s a chance they’ll play better in July than they did in June. Because they can pitch, and starting pitching has an aggregate effect. Good innings prop up a team, just as bad innings drag it down. Look what’s happening to the Phillies, who have almost no pitching.
Philadelphia is 27th among 30 big-league teams in ERA, and a team cannot win a division that way no matter how hard it hits. The Braves are sixth in ERA, which means they can. They’ll have to hit a little better and hope the Mets, who remain the most gifted team in the NL East, don’t get healthy. (Carlos Beltran just joined Jose Reyes and Carlos Delgado on the disabled list.) But there’s a way the Braves can leverage some pitching to find a bat before the trading deadline.
I’ve said it before: Tim Hudson is the hidden key to 2009. He’s expected back in August, and if he’s throwing well in July rehab the Braves could part with one of their starters in exchange for, say, Adam Dunn, the Washington outfielder. Which starter? By process of elimination, Javier Vazquez. Which sounds crazy, given that he awoke Tuesday leading the National League in strikeouts. But hear me out.
Jair Jurrjens and Tommy Hanson are the future. (Also the present.) Can’t trade them. Derek Lowe is the ace. Can’t trade him. Kenshin Kawakami is new and makes too much money. Can’t get much for him. Hudson is coming off an injury and could be a free agent at season’s end. Can’t get much for him, either. But Vazquez? A durable 32-year-old under contract through 2010?
You could get something for him.
Most teams looking to dump players at the deadline are hunting prospects, but a veteran pitcher could be enticing to a team lacking everything, which describes Washington. Almost no contender is ever shedding pitching in July, but the 2009 Braves could become the exception. They might even throw in Jeff Francoeur as a package-sweetener.
Think of it this way: Dunn to hit behind Chipper Jones and ahead of Brian McCann, Hudson in for Vazquez to keep the innings-eating going. The Braves have already upgraded once with Nate McLouth. One more major move and the hitless wonders could well surge past the pitchless Phils and give the Mets a run to October.
I know, I know. This hasn’t looked like a playoff team since the Ides of April, but it has hung around. As long as it pitches, it can keep hanging. One more bat and the serious climbing can commence.
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198 comments Add your comment
Powder Springs Jacket
June 24th, 2009
11:14 am
Mark, what about maybe trading to bring DeRosa back? With the Indians probably not resigning Cliff Lee, he (Vasquez) can be a good #1 for them, and with DeRosa, he can play 2 or 3 spots in the infield or move to outfied to give some guys a rest..And what are your thoughts on Matt Holliday? Do you think his stats were magnified by Coors Field, or is his sub-par season in Oakland just an abberation?
JP
June 24th, 2009
11:32 am
Mark — I like the enthusiasm, but the reason this doesn’t work: pitchers coming off TJ (or other serious arm/shoulder surgery) a year later are just not that good. The examples are numerous. Doesn’t mean they won’t or can’t return to being good, but usually it takes that extra six months. You just can’t expect Huddy to perform this year, let alone “eat innings” coming off surgery.
Airik
June 24th, 2009
11:32 am
Knowing how the Braves front office has handled the last two pitchers it did away with, they’ll probably do the same to Hudson haha. If Vasquez is pitching well at the end of July they’ll probably package Hudson as soon as he looks ready.
Hilton Head Island
June 24th, 2009
11:38 am
I agree with you on this one, Mark. The Braves certainly CAN come back and win the NL East, especially when you consider that they’re only 4 games back despite having played so poorly and inconsistently. I mean, what does that say about THE REST of the division? Weren’t the Phillies and Mets supposed to leave the others in the dust??
I think this team just needed a spark, and Tommy Hanson has provided it…and I think there’s a great chance that he’ll be a HUGE difference maker as the season progresses. I also agree that the Braves should make an effort to get Adam Dunn. Frenchy’s time is up as far as I’m concerned, and at least Dunn hits for power and knocks in tons of runs.
The Braves have the talent to win, there’s no question. The only question seems to be whether or not they want it badly enough.
PS-Suddenly Garrett Anderson is paying dividends, another huge factor in a 2nd half surge…LET’S GO BRAVES!!!
bwash21
June 24th, 2009
11:38 am
Hudson cannot be counted on to give us much of anything coming off surgery. He’ll be good for 3-5 innings for about 4 weeks and then maybe 6 innings come September.
Injuries to our staff will likely take care of itself and Huddy will plug in somewhere. We cannot trade Vasquez. He’s a 200+ innings eater we’ve been looking for and along with Lowe, anchors this staff.
Hudson can be a free agent and leave and we’re right back to trying to fill that hole again next year.
Besides that, the Nats will want prospects for Dunn, not a guy like Vasquez anyway. Do we really want to part with more prospects for a 200 strikeout guy who hits .240?
Mrs. Chanandler Bong
June 24th, 2009
11:40 am
I’m on Team Mark! I still believe! And I don’t know much about TJ surgery, but maybe Huddy will have it a tad easier than the rest, simply because he’s not relying on speed so much since he’s definitely a ground-out pitcher.
Bama Aaron
June 24th, 2009
11:41 am
I think your thinking and your enthusiasm. A good bat like Dunn and I too think this team can make a run!
Ernest
June 24th, 2009
11:43 am
I agree with bwash21 regarding what the Nats would want. When you also factor in the Anderson is hitting the ball and making contributions, where would you put Dunn?
Don
June 24th, 2009
11:43 am
The Braves Pitching Staff is good enough to win the Division but not GREAT enough to overcome Bobby Cox’s incompetence as an offensive manager. Cox’s offensive management has the Braves next to last in all of baseball in average number of pitches seen per at bat. This guarantees that you will not have consistent run production and will not be competitive. This violates the most essential requriement of offensive management – developing the approach of your hitters to work the count and force the opposing pitcher to throw a lot of pitches — This enables the hitters to adjust to the pitcher, see what he has, get better pitches to hit, make him make mistakes, wears him down both within innings and for the game, gets you into their weak middle relief etc. Bobby Cox has never understood or implemented this. The only way he won the Division in the past was having dominant pitching so far far superior to the other teams that it overcome his incompetence in management of the offense and in game decisions and made it almost impossible to lose over the 162 game reagular season schedule. All possible moves- everything else is meaningless as long as Bobby Cox is managing and does not implement this basic essentil of effecive run production. Having Pitching so dominant that it overcomes his lack of management skills was a once in a lifetime situation.
P-Man
June 24th, 2009
11:43 am
I’m always optimistic. Heck, I was the guy who figures that if the magic number isn’t reached, you’re still in it. It ain’t over ’til it’s over!
j
June 24th, 2009
11:44 am
I agree with the reasoning here, Vaz is definitely our most valuable trade chip. The only problem is that by trading him, our starting pitching takes a big blow. We signed Lowe and Vaz to eat innings and stay healthy, and they have both been as advertised. Its a bonus that vaz is pitching so well. But if we give him up and hope Huddy performs, we put an extra strain on our BP to pitch more innings effectively. Vaz has been pitching like an ace, and I think he really thrives and feels comfortable in the NL, so there’s no reason to think he won’t continue pitching well. I would feel much better if we could grab a power hitter for less than him.
Plus, it wouldn’t make sense for the Nats to trade Dunn for Vaz. Both are under 2 year contracts for about $20 million, and the Nats have some pretty good SP in their pipeline (especially if they can sign Strasborg, who could be MLB ready as soon as next year). So they would be swapping Dunn for a year of Vaz. You’d think they’d probably be looking to trade Dunn for a young stud who would be under contract for the next 5 years, not an expensive 1 year rental.
Ernest
June 24th, 2009
11:45 am
I forgot to add that our bullpen is and will get better because of ‘innnings eaters’ like Vasquez. I like what he brings to the team.
I do believe the Braves will be in a position of strength by having many quality starters. Given the lack of them in the major leagues, it should help them in trading for hitters.
Over and out
June 24th, 2009
11:49 am
I’ve seen this version of Braves baseball long enough to know that we have NO CHANCE. There isn’t enough fire in their bellies to get the job done. Simply showing up for work and being professional doesn’t win championships.
The Braves need more Paul O’Neill types but instead have a team full of Garrett Anderson personalities.
That’s only good enough for 4th place in the NL East. Don’t kid yourself. I would love it if they could prove me wrong but I’ve lost all faith that Bobby can get the most out of his players anymore. I know, I know, he’s a great players manager, blah, blah, blah. Fact is, he hasn’t done anything for 3 years to make this team better.
Don
June 24th, 2009
11:50 am
Adam Dunn – You must be out of your mind. A high strike out, low BA hitter is just what the Braves do not need. And to give up a good pitcher for Dunn????? We have no chance anyway with Bobby Cox’s incompetence.
Jfreak
June 24th, 2009
11:51 am
Dunn would be a good fit if Washington would part with him for Vasquez? Big if? Having to package Frenchy in that trade would too much to give up for Dunn in my opinion. However, hope springs eternal right?
Ron Roberts
June 24th, 2009
11:52 am
What is WITH this “DeRosa” love affair? guy has one magical season with the Cubs’ playoff run, and all of a sudden he’s the “can’t miss” trade piece? C’mon…
We do NOT need another super-utility guy; we have Prado for that, and Omar Infante due to return soon, as well. methinks Prado’s ABOUT to get the everday 2B job once Omar’s back; or maybe Infante gets it, and Prado’s the super-sub. Either way, we don’t need DeRo for a slot already capably filled and not costing us a pitcher/prospect.
The team NEEDS an OF bat; period. Until then, Francoeur and Diaz need to platoon in RF. At LEAST Francoeur hits .277 against lefties. Doing that will eliminate one of the two “holes” we have in our lineup before the pitcher bats.
Doug
June 24th, 2009
11:53 am
What about moving Chipper to 1st? He is slipping at 3rd and could extend his career with a move across the diamond. Start Infante (when he gets back) at 2nd and put Prado at 3rd. I’m not perceptive enough to see their shortcomings, but I sure have been impressed with their attitude, play and hitting. Test Johnson in right field for his last chance before (or while) putting him on the block along with Frenchy. I know neither have much trade value, but we can be shopping them around without giving up the store over the next month. I agree that we can’t put a big load on Hudson right away or we will be disappointed. Vasquez is doing a wonderful job and I think we need to leave this pitching staff alone unless someone offers a bona-fide difference maker for the outfield (not likely). I’d like to see some tweaking without major upheaval for the next month to see if we are really settling down or if we are doomed to sub-.500 with this bunch. Minimize the damage that Francoeur and Johnson are doing with liberal application of bench time.
Hilton Head Island
June 24th, 2009
11:53 am
Yes, Adam Dunn. He doesn’t strike out any more than Frenchy and unlike Frency he still hits home runs and drives in a ton of runs. I’ll take a .230 average with 35 home runs and 100 RBI any day over .230 with 10 home runs and 60 RBI.
Mark Bradley
June 24th, 2009
12:00 pm
We know the Braves aren’t going to play little ball with this lineup. They lack a home run hitter. Adam Dunn is a home run hitter. He’s not Mickey Mantle, but he ain’t Greg Norton.
Poorjeff
June 24th, 2009
12:00 pm
Hell no to trading Vazquez . We could have had Dunn for no players but they passed and now you wish to trade one of the best pitchers we have. Hudson may come back and may not. Do you wish to chance that, Another Hampton. I hope Wren gets another bat but no to trading Vaz. Hell go after Milkey Cabrera he could be had .and are go fishing, they have couple we could get.
Over and out
June 24th, 2009
12:02 pm
Don, you nailed on the head.
Here’s the irony of the Braves lineup. Our leadoff hitter is leading the team in HR’s and only has a .329 OBP.
Other than him, we don’t have anyone in double digits in HR’s yet, we don’t steal bases, hit and run, or bunt. Anyone thinks that’s good baseball?
The steriod era is coming to an end and yet we still play for the 3 run HR to win games without a legitimate HR hitter in the lineup.
Fundamentally, we are gawd awful and have been for years. Whose to blame for that? Good thing we have one of the all time greats in our dugout making decisions. Where would we be without him?
STRETCH
June 24th, 2009
12:05 pm
Well put Mr Bradley!
Reid Adair
June 24th, 2009
12:05 pm
Mark, I think the inconsistencies on offense are too significant to be resolved with a single player. It just can’t be fixed that easily – at least not for this year.
Hopefully I am wrong. I would gladly be wrong on this one.
Mark Bradley
June 24th, 2009
12:07 pm
Thanks, Stretch. And I’m glad you didn’t say, “Mr. Bradley, that’s a stretch.”
MiltonDawg
June 24th, 2009
12:08 pm
we should know more about this team after this homestand and right after the all-star break where we stand. as long as the mets are injury plagued and the phillies continue with their struggles…who knows? we definetly need a bat!!
Mark Bradley
June 24th, 2009
12:09 pm
And to answer Powder Springs’ question from a while back … I like Matt Holliday and I like Brad Hawpe. But the Rockies are playing well now and they might not trade anybody, and I’m not sure the A’s would offload Holliday for anything except prospects.
jeffrey d
June 24th, 2009
12:09 pm
I’d love Adam Dunn in this lineup. But 1) he’d be FIFTH regular lefty in the lineup. 2) I don’t think the Nats are planning on contending next year either, so I don’t think they’d want Javy Vazquez.
And 3) I don’t see where Dunn (or any new acquisition) would play. I don’t think the Braves can justify benching Garret Anderson. McLouth’s in center, that’s a given. And what about Jeff Francoeur in right? Given his potential I can’t see the Braves giving up on him, sending him down for an extended period of time, or benching him for an extended period of time. Unless he’s traded, but why would a team trade a good outfielder for Jeff Francoeur?
Buzz
June 24th, 2009
12:09 pm
There’s no need to trade Vasquez, the Braves don’t need a megastar. They need an RF and 2B that can bat his weight, which ain’t much.
I figure Infante will be our regular 2B, and he will hit close to 300, so the 2B prob is solved.
Now, how much do you think Cleveland wants for DeRosa, who would be a really good #6 hitter? NOT MUCH. Cleveland overpaid and can shuffle that salary off on the Braves, so they will jump at the chance.
Kelly Johnson+Medlen+prospect=DeRosa
hal
June 24th, 2009
12:09 pm
Enter your comments here
hal
June 24th, 2009
12:11 pm
if its coxs fault we dont take more pitches i have a question,whats tps job or does he have one ?
jeffrey d
June 24th, 2009
12:11 pm
PS – I like how you use Schultz’ old picture…was that his request?
Mark Bradley
June 24th, 2009
12:11 pm
To trade Frenchy, you’d have to find a team that sees his potential more than his flaws. Maybe Kansas City. (Dayton Moore, who ran the Braves’ minor-league system when Francoeur was coming up, is the GM.) Maybe Texas, although I can’t see the Rangers making an experimental move when they’re playing well.
Mark Bradley
June 24th, 2009
12:14 pm
That would be overpaying for DeRo, I’m afraid, Buzz.
As for Mr. Schultz’s picture … I usually do the photos on the ol’ blog but didn’t do that one. (Although I did notice they used a more current one of me on his page. Not that sports writers are vain or anything.)
Joseph Russo (Griffin Ga)
June 24th, 2009
12:15 pm
This is an absolutely horrible idea, Bradley. Lets trade the National League leader in strikeouts, hes got a 5-6 record but it really should be about 7-3 or 8-2, hes got horrible run support, but still a 3 ERA. And in return we get a old, fat first baseman with 80 strikeouts already and its not even the all-star break. Huddy will be back, but not back to himself until 2010. Keep pitching. How did the Braves win so many division titles in the past. The braves can win the division, and they need a bat. But the bat they need is not 200 strikeouts a year, with or without 40 home runs.
Over and out
June 24th, 2009
12:16 pm
My lineup:
Prado .348 OBP – Infante when he gets back (.389 OBP)
Escobar
McLouth
Chipper
McCann
Anderson/Diaz
Kotchman
Franceour
Escobar can handle the bat and is ideal for the 2 hole. He can hit opposite field yet we never hit and run with him. He can also bunt.
Just once, I’d like to see us bunt in the first inning. Man on 2nd with one out and you have to pitch to McLouth and then Chipper.
With our pitching, get an early lead and put the pressure on.
Move Kelly Johnson to a reserve role. He’s hitting .222 with a .293 OBP yet he continues to get PT while all Prado does is give you positives on the offensive and defensive side. I don’t understand.
PATTY
June 24th, 2009
12:18 pm
There’s no need to trade Vasquez!!! he should be 11-1 if we had run support and the bullpen didnt suck at times. when you are in a playoff hunt, you need your best pitchers pitching in big game situations. yes we need adam dunn but we dont need to trade Vasquez. I do agree with you we could trade Hudson and some other guys for Dunn but it would be a huge mistake to trade Vasquez.. another option would be to trade Kotchman, jo jo and some other minor league guy for the Padres Adrian Gonzales
o-me
June 24th, 2009
12:18 pm
over and out, mostly out. =all time great in dugout making decisions, where would we be without him.
Maybe 1st place..for sure no worse off.
Mark Bradley
June 24th, 2009
12:25 pm
“An absolute horrible idea” — yep, sounds like one of mine.
Over and out
June 24th, 2009
12:27 pm
0-me
I was being sarcastic. I appreciate all that Bobby has done for the Braves but it’s time for new leadership in that dugout.
I think the Braves cannot be worse with a new manager.
Herschel Talker
June 24th, 2009
12:28 pm
MB – I agree with Schultz. The numbers don’t work.
wareagle
June 24th, 2009
12:29 pm
When can we expect to have Infante back?
Mark Bradley
June 24th, 2009
12:31 pm
I believe I heard Bobby Cox say not until August on Infante. But I don’t think he’s going to turn a pennant race by himself. He’s a utility man.
Herschel Talker
June 24th, 2009
12:34 pm
BOBBY COX MUST GO
AROD LIKES MEN
P Rose
June 24th, 2009
12:41 pm
Nowhere Fan
for Schultz (”I know nothing…!”)
He’s a real nowhere fan
Sitting on his nowhere can
Writing all his also-ran opinions
Has destructive points of view
Worships Blink 182
He should be on AJC suspension
Nowhere fan, please listen
You don’t know who you’re dissing
Nowhere fan, you need to remove your head from the sand
Ah, la, la, la, la
He’s obtuse as he can be
Dumber than a football tee
Nowhere fan, we don’t agree at all
Nowhere man please hurry
Get a shave, you’re furry
Can you please quit writing of things you don’t understand
Unenlightened point of view
Knows not who he’s writing to
Logic is beyond his comprehension
You’ve a bad disposition
And a bad skin condition
Nowhere fan, you need to expand your attention span
Ah, la, la, la, la
He’s a real nowhere fan
Living with his nowhere clan
Writing his pathetic editorials
Always slams the A-T-L
He deserves a living hell
He should be in KC with the Royals
richbrave
June 24th, 2009
12:43 pm
BRADLEY:
Well, it better be a division winner because the wild-card loss column stands at 32. The BRAVES are four back with all but four teams to climb over to get that spot in the play-offs. Yup, better win that flag or the game’s over, end of story.
sidslid
June 24th, 2009
12:48 pm
Let’s approach the White Sox. Hudson and Frenchy for the 19 year old wonder, Dayan Viciedo, who the White Sox have moved from 3rd to the outfield to allow Gordon Beckham to take over 3rd, and Josh Fields, a slugger that Ozzie has given up on but could be a great back up for Chipper and Greg Norton-lie power off bench. Viciedo might hit 12 HRs the rest of the year, but you have a good one for the future versus a Dunn. Sox are desperate for starters and they have a good bullpen so they can throw Hudson out there as a six inning pitcher.
dobearsbare
June 24th, 2009
12:49 pm
I really can’t see the Braves dealing Vaszquez, particularly to another team in their division. He’d probably face them three times and strike out 30 batters the way this club swings, and Dunn would only make that worse.
Mark Bradley
June 24th, 2009
12:50 pm
Let the record show that Mr. Bradley did not crack a smile — not once — while reading P Rose’s latest opus.
Let the record also show that Mr. Bradley just told a big fat lie.
Mrs. Chanandler Bong
June 24th, 2009
12:51 pm
Even though Jeff contends that the numbers are against us, as someone astutely pointed out earlier, even the division (and WS) winners of last year would have to get pretty hot to meet last year’s stats. MB, I also agree with you on trading Vasquez, even though I love him. I think we all know before years end, we’ll say goodbye to a starting pitcher and a reliever.
P.S. Tell Bobby Cox that they don’t make Majestic jerseys in my size, so I ordered a youth size. I hope it fits. That’s how much I love him.
Mrs. Chanandler Bong
June 24th, 2009
12:51 pm
P.P.S. Obviously, I had #6 emblazoned no the back.
Mark Bradley
June 24th, 2009
12:56 pm
The 2004 Braves were under .500 on the Fourth of July and won the East by 10 games. The 2007 Phillies were under .500 on July 19 and won the NL East. If you’re into numbers, you might consider those.
Mr. Joe Torre
June 24th, 2009
12:56 pm
Hey guys, with the talent that the braves have I could bring yall home a world serries championship ring
ATL FAN
June 24th, 2009
12:58 pm
Mark, I like your idea about Frenchy going to Texas… perhaps we can pick up a good bat for him… and they might just take a chance on his talent especially since they have a hitting instructor who KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING!
PATTY
June 24th, 2009
12:58 pm
The braves have the heart. they will make it to the playoffs this season
Fischerking04
June 24th, 2009
1:01 pm
Well put Mark.
Is there any value left in JoJo? If we could package him and Francoeur for a power hitting outfielder that would be nice.
Jeff
June 24th, 2009
1:06 pm
Mark…..NOT a good idea trading Vasquez for Adam or anybody.This guy has the best stuff on the team and would be a allstar if we got him some runs.Who knows what Huddy has in his tank.We should have never signed Hooter boy to a big contract and traded him,and get a REAL leader and a bat.
Braves73
June 24th, 2009
1:08 pm
I agree that the Braves have a chance, but trading a key piece to your pitching staff doesn’t sound like a good move. Hear me out, if upper management is to defend their mantra “pitching wins championships” then why would they make this move? Frank Wren went out in the offseason and spent a pretty penny ($$$ & prospects) in order to upgrade the staff. It would be a counter-productive move to trade a piece of the pre-determined puzzle. It would be a HUGE gamble to count on Hudson doing anything this year (much less next). You have Vazquez under contract until 2010 and he is already proven to be a great fit for this ball club.
My suggestion (and this goes against my previous blogs) is to stand pat on the Vazquez trade front and see what you can get some other potential trade. I know that a package for Frenchy & KJ is not inviting, but it would hurt to see what you could “throw in” to get a bat. Try the old Schuerholz method, see who gets desperate at the deadline, and sell on the “potential” of a player/players you can package.
hmmmm
June 24th, 2009
1:09 pm
The numbers say Lowe is not the ace. Vasquez is pitching much better. How about Lowe, Kotch and Francoeur to White Sox for Dye, Konerko and Josh Fields. RIGHT HANDED bats with power would help better than Dunn. Money will match up as well.
Willy
June 24th, 2009
1:12 pm
Trade Vazquez? Re-tahded.
cmac1818
June 24th, 2009
1:15 pm
No way the Braves trade Vasquez if they’re still in it. Even if it’s for a power bat.
He’s been argueably the team’s best pitcher, so trading him would be a HUGE step backwards. Sorry but I don’t trust Tim Hudson. No way can he be counted on to hop in the rotation and put up the same numbers Javy is. (Seriously, he is leading the NL in strikeouts and with a little luck, would have about 10 wins already.)
Kevin
June 24th, 2009
1:21 pm
well i be darn Arod loves Men we glad not like young boys….lol geez what a comment well bobby cox is okay. to be fired i would rather see him retire first would u be best.But its up to him i would love see them win a WS title for him to before he retires also!
jeffrey d
June 24th, 2009
1:21 pm
But I don’t think he’s going to turn a pennant race by himself. He’s a utility man
THANK YOU, Mark! Based on how some people talk about him on the blogs, you’d think he was an All Star and he can single handedly turn around this team because he got off to a hot start. Truth is, he’s just a utility man (with a career average in the .260s)
ATL FAN
June 24th, 2009
1:22 pm
Ditto what most everyone is saying here. The only untouchables should be Vasquez, then McCann, Hanson and JJ. Everyone else is potential trade material.
jeffrey d
June 24th, 2009
1:27 pm
A lot of people seem opposed to trading Vazquez….I think it’s a great idea. When you have a surplus and you have a huge need, you use that surplus to trade for that huge need. Of the starters not named Hanson, Vazquez has the most value by far. Yeah we’d miss him, but the starting pitching wouldn’t miss too much of a beat. The offense, however, would benefit greatly.
And to the people making their own trade proposals – other GMs don’t want our team’s garbage. “Why don’t we offer KJ and Francoeur for Brian Roberts and Luke Scott?? We can even throw in Greg Norton and Jo Jo Reyes!”
Because Baltimore’s GM didn’t wake up this morning saying “I wonder how I can help the Braves today?” (that’s a line borrowed from someone on O’Brien’s beat blog btw)
ATL FAN
June 24th, 2009
1:27 pm
Oh – and I want Chipper to be included on the no trade list – he needs to retire here
Mike
June 24th, 2009
1:29 pm
Upgraded with McLouth. Hmmmmm…..I’m still not sure I see where the upgrade is at this point. Hopefully, in the second half.
The way to win is for Bobby to start managing the pen a bit more effectively. I’m not convinced Hanson is the savior yet, but after he semi-intentionally walked a Yank to set up a force in the 6th, Bobby yanked him (he was at 99 pitches I think). No offense to Bobby, and it clearly worked out, but I didn’t think Moylan gave us a better chance to end the inning…which was a Jeter DP.
Again, it worked out. But I think Bobby really rolled the dice and I would have preferred to see Hanson pitch his way out of it.
HARRY
June 24th, 2009
1:31 pm
When it is time for Hudson to return put him in the BP. Get a big bat thru the trade route some other way. There are package deals that can be made.
Random
June 24th, 2009
1:36 pm
MB: “if [Hudson]’s throwing well in July rehab the Braves could part with one of their starters in exchange for” some “big bat” or other.
With that as a premise, the whole rest of your article is useless, idle speculation. It ain’t gonna happen, as many here have already pointed out.
On top of that, you yourself already said “Good innings prop up a team, just as bad innings drag it down.” You attributed the Braves’ current not-totally-out-of-it position to their pitching. They cannot afford to lose ANY of their starters anytime this season. They need the “big bat” on top of all of the pitching they’ve now got, not in place of one their starters.
Finally, I’d rather see Lowe dealt rather than Vazquez. Imo, Vazquez is a keeper — I’d like to see him extended here.
So far this year, Vazquez has outperformed Lowe in all major pitching stats except GO/AO (L=2.04, V=1.36). But if you look at SO+GO/AO, Vazquez is on top with 2.81 (100+117/77) to Lowe’s 2.58 (148+51/77).
Plus, I think the Braves could get more for Lowe than for Vazquez.
Time for JeSch now.
C from Marietta
June 24th, 2009
1:37 pm
Trade Javier – NO NO NO!!!!!!!!
Adam
June 24th, 2009
1:39 pm
Javy Vazquez has given the Braves THE most professional mound performances since the Big 3 left. If we had him as No. 4 behind those guys we would have hung more Series banners. Forget the record — he is the ace of this staff because he has been LOCKDOWN.
Hmm… Hudson coming off of major surgery. Yeah, let’s count on him every five days to throw 100 pitches.
Medlen is not being used and probably could get you something if you package him with a vet like a Kotchman or a Matt Diaz (I don’t think Francouer has much, if any, trade value right now. Neither does Johnson).
Actually, when Infante gets back put him at 2B so we can get another BAT into the lineup that won’t swing at first pitches and hesitate when he hits high choppers, being thrown out and cost us runs.
You don’t even mention Florida — the Marlins started a dominating 11-1 and what that means is that they are capable of doing it again. In the first 2 weeks they looked like the best team in baseball and while they’re not the best team they are EXTREMELY dangerous.
Ray Pugh
June 24th, 2009
1:40 pm
The anti-Dunn crowd knows as much about baseball as I do about how Megan Fox looks naked: even though Dunn rarely hits more than .250, his on-base percentage is always a hundred or more points higher than that, meaning he is very good at not making outs. A player of that caliber is valuable even if he hits half of the ding-dongs Mr. Dunn hits.
HOWEVER, this trade will not happen b/c Washington would want a Medlen, Scafer or Freeman in return as well, and FW thankfully wouldn’t go for that…
nique
June 24th, 2009
1:44 pm
Mark, Wren will never trade Vasquez for Dunn. If he did he’d admit the huge mistake he made when he was in search of an outfield bat this offseason and he signed Garrett Anderson for a few mill less than it would take to get Dunn. He would basically have wasted the stud prospect he traded for Vasquez when he could have obtained Dunn without parting with any talent. Thoughts?
P-Town Brave
June 24th, 2009
1:45 pm
Here’s a novel idea:
Stop playing Francoeur and Johnson, go get another bat for RF, and release Jeff Bennett…
Bobby Cox will still find a way to muff a few games here and there, but that should put the team in contention for a playoff spot….
I’m sorry to tell ya MB, but if we continue w/ the current lineup and the current manager, 3rd place or lower is gonna come calling in September.
Mike from NC
June 24th, 2009
1:52 pm
I say bench Frenchy and start Diaz to add some more offense to the lineup and go ahead and get a feel for whether or not the Nationals are willing to trade Dunn. If so, go get him now!
m
June 24th, 2009
1:52 pm
DON IS A MORON!!!!!
Mitchell
June 24th, 2009
1:54 pm
Hey Mr. Optimism,
What about my prediction that we’ll finish this homestand with above .500?
Might happen. Then you’ll have to get me that nice little award you talked about. I’m holding you to it, you better believe that!
O'Brien
June 24th, 2009
1:57 pm
Mark,
The Braves could have signed Adam Dunn in the offseason, but I dont think Frank Wren even made an offer. And now you want to trade for him?
I dont like the idea of trading Vazquez. Yes, Hanson is pitching well, but he might struggle later in the year when hitters have a better scouting report on him.
We’ve seen JJ struggle towards the end of the season last year, so who knows what to expect this year. And even if Huddy pitches well in rehab, it would still be a very risky move.
Do you think the Braves will keep both Gonzales and Soriano?
Mike
June 24th, 2009
1:58 pm
Megan Foxx naked? What do you want to know?
Hoosier Aaron
June 24th, 2009
2:03 pm
You don’t trade your best pitcher if you plan on winning your division.
Especially when he tells the Hall of Fame manager, “I don’t care about pitch counts…I’m here to finish”.
Ozzie said he didn’t have onions….yeah, right.
joe(shoyo wang)
June 24th, 2009
2:04 pm
Vazquez is not a surplus. Hudson will not be ready this year. no guarantees that medlen can perform half as well as vazquez over the course of 10 starts. we go with what we’ve got, or we get a bat that doesn’t cost us any major contributors to our team.period.
Mark Bradley
June 24th, 2009
2:06 pm
Chipper isn’t going to be traded. Frank Wren has been too aggressive to give up on 2009.
Mitchell
June 24th, 2009
2:06 pm
Now that I’ve read the whole article my only comment is about Bradley’s claim that Derek Lowe is our ace.
No, I’m pretty sure Javier Vasquez is far and away the best pitcher on this team. I guess now I understand why everybody’s been talking about trading him but as great as Hudson is I don’t think I would chose him over Javy if I were made to do so.
I just couldn’t do it man. Javy’s like that one guy who you know can fight through a game. He’s tough. JJ and KK and Hudson are great but they’re a little soft if you see where I’m going with this.
I’d take Adam Dunn in a second I know that.
joe(shoyo wang)
June 24th, 2009
2:07 pm
I predicted a sweep of the yanks and an 8-2….so far so good! hope KK can keep the great pitching rolling.
the braves must keep gonzo and soriano, if they plan on competing this year. we’ve seen all season how nasty they are in the late innings. with moylan coming around steadily, we just need to have a lead in the 7th and we’ll win a very high percentage of those games.
joe(shoyo wang)
June 24th, 2009
2:10 pm
Mitchell,
hudson is soft? what exactly are you talking about? by all accounts from players that played with him and against him, he is known as a gritty bulldog that never gives in. he’s had disappointing seasons in atlanta, but his career should more than speak for itself. you don’t compile a winnig percentage like that, and throw 240 inning seasons by being “soft”. ridiculous.
Mark Bradley
June 24th, 2009
2:11 pm
A sweep of the Yanks, eh? And they say I’m an optimist.
Ramblin Wrecker
June 24th, 2009
2:12 pm
This is what I’ve been thinking and saying for a long time now. The Braves should have signed Adam Dunn outright. I’m still baffled about why they weren’t seemingly interested in a guy who has hit 40 homeruns-literally for the last 4 straight years. Can’t be because of his defense if you are running Garrett Anderson and Matt Diaz out to left field every day.
But we didn’t so we should do the next best thing and trade Javier Vasquez to LA (Dodgers or Angels), Milwaukee, Detroit or whoever they can (too bad Ozzie hates Javy or the Braves could trade straight up for Jermaine Dye and get that right handed bat that is missing). Then spin off the gains from that trade (or a combination of prospects from their own system not named Jason Heyward) to Washington for Dunn.
One other positive to a trade scenario involving Vasquez and Dunn that Mark Bradley failed to mention was the financial aspect. Vasquez makes $11.5 million this year and next year, and Dunn makes $8 million this year and $12 million next year, so the Braves would actually have a net gain in funds this year if they wanted to add another reliever who makes $3 million or less this season.
T.O
June 24th, 2009
2:13 pm
1)Nate McClouth CF
2)Escobar SS
3)Chipper 3b
4)Dunn LF
5)MCcANN C
6)Kotchman 1b
7)Kelly Johnson 2b
8)Frenchy/Garrett Anderson RF
9) Pitcher spot
That’s a tough lineup to beat if everyone stays healthy to go along with the deepest starting rotation in the league. And not to mention one of the best set up and closer combos in the NL. Go get Dunn!!
joe(shoyo wang)
June 24th, 2009
2:13 pm
Mark Bradley,
that’s right! despite the infamous lost popup between chip and escy, i think the braves are playing well lately, and we’re catching the yanks at the right time as they are slumping a lil bit. of course, i’d be very happy with series wins.
GTSteve
June 24th, 2009
2:13 pm
Everybody repeat after me…..You can never have too much pitching……Do not trade Vasquez
GTSteve
June 24th, 2009
2:16 pm
Not to mention ……The Nats are going with a youth movement on the mound, not sure they would even listen to that trade…..the offense is starting to pick up…..maybe….
Mike
June 24th, 2009
2:17 pm
M- “DON IS A MORON!!!”
Good one, Bobby.
joe(shoyo wang)
June 24th, 2009
2:17 pm
Vazquez is bobby’s boy now, no way bobby allows him to be traded, especially with him pitching so well. especially not for dunn, who we could have had as a free agent.
AustinBrave
June 24th, 2009
2:18 pm
What would we need to give up to get Brian Roberts and Luke Scott? Maybe Medlen, JoJo,Kelly, Francouer, Campo.
HUH
June 24th, 2009
2:21 pm
I’d love to see a sweep, Joe. But this team against a decent opponent? NO WAY. Remind me how many sweeps we have this year. Is it one against the Nats in April??? Uh…. no…
Phil
June 24th, 2009
2:21 pm
As long as Moron Cox is managing, there is zero chance of winning the East. Last place is more likely than first place.
Adam
June 24th, 2009
2:24 pm
Getting Brian Roberts would be AMAZING….
Only if Bobby stops thinking he’s Earl Weaver.
That’s the guy we should be targeting. He could bat 2…. move Yunel to the 5 spot and now you can absorb Francouer as an 8 hitter, much like Cox did with Andruw many years ago.
bravessince85
June 24th, 2009
2:26 pm
I would NOT, would NOT include Javier Vazquez in any trade in any shape or form. Tim Hudson is scheduled to make his return in August right? Why not plug him into a long relief role? He has already said if he’s best fit there, he would make the transition through the end of the year. If we wanted Adam Dunn, we should have gotten him during the offseason. The Nationals aren’t even in a position to acquire a starting pitcher because they will not be in contention this year nor next. I think right now they are gaining the confidence they’ve desperately needed. Like Ive said before Garret Anderson would come out of the woods, and he has and its paying dividends. Plug Infante or Prado into second base and let Kelly be the utility player for a change. Then the only week spot is in rightfield. I like Francoeur and think he can bust out of it… i don’t know if it’ll be for the Braves or someone else.. but i think he can. The Mets are in a situation the Braves were in last year, no one stayed healthy and it will cost them. Reyes looks to have a more serious injury than previously expected and Beltran’s injury plagued him a few games earlier in the season, so that’s something that might linger. The Phillies have no pitching.. with no pitching, you can’t win. I don’t care who you play and how many runs you score, pitching and defense ultimately win championships and with only 9 wins at home? I don’t think they are in it to win it this year. I think the Braves are breaking out of their funk. 1-6 in the lineup is producing. If they are in it after the All Star break, then maybe trade for a bat, with draft picks involved. We have a sleu of talent in the farm right now, so I don’t think it would hurt too much anyways.. but trading Vazquez is not the right answer because we don’t know how Huddy will be anyways. It is Tommy John surgery folks.
Mark Bradley
June 24th, 2009
2:28 pm
Note the day and the time: June 24, 2009, 2:28 p.m.: I will guarantee the Braves don’t finish behind the Nationals.
Tommy Wildfire Rich
June 24th, 2009
2:29 pm
Mike- If you don’t think McLouth is an upgrade over Shafer/Blanco, I don’t think you would recognize a naked Megan Fox if you tripped over her.
joe(shoyo wang)
June 24th, 2009
2:29 pm
HUH–
In baseball, “No Way” is a ludicrous statement. anything can happen in baseball. on top of which, its not like this is the worlds worst baseball team meeting the worlds best. braves have great pitching right now which seems to be peaking, we have hitters starting to hit their stride and get timely hits (GA), it is not a NO WAY situation. Tonight’s game will obviously be key. I thought yesterday’s matchup favored the braves and they won. Tonight probably favors NY, so KK will have to be on top of his game. Yankees are quality, but they are slumping, and the Braves just posted back to back shutouts for the first time since 2004. obviously, you couldn’t have predicted that based on “track record”. but this is baseball.
joe(shoyo wang)
June 24th, 2009
2:31 pm
Mark Bradley,
way to put yourself at risk there sir.
Mark Bradley
June 24th, 2009
2:34 pm
Thanks, Joe. Danger is my business.
Robbie T
June 24th, 2009
2:37 pm
You have to drunk or crazy to suggest that the Braves trade one of the best pitchers in the league.Vasquez is a horse.You have a chance to win everytime he pitches.Wren could have signed Dunn during the off season but, chose not to.If you want him now offer Francouer and a pitching prospect.If they say no then just move on.We don’t need another lefthand bat in the lineup anyway.A righthand batting cleanup hitter is what we need.Andruw Jones would be perfect back in this role.Put him in right field and leave him alone.He will hit more homers and have more rbi’s than Francouer.Wren got pitching during the offseason so,lets get the hitters now.
Phil
June 24th, 2009
2:39 pm
I didn’t say the Braves would finish behind the Nationals. But I would say the chances in that happening is greater than finishing in first. This is a .500 team just like the last several years. Moron Cox and TP are going to lead this team to first place?? Note the time and day, June 24, 2009, 2:38 PM. NOT going to happen.
Mark Bradley
June 24th, 2009
2:40 pm
Drunk, no. Crazy … well, I’ll give you the number of my psychiatrist and y’all can chat.
Tommy Wildfire Rich
June 24th, 2009
2:40 pm
Everyone thought I was delusional a couple of weeks ago for saying Medlen was nothing more than a “tradable piece”. Now I see his name thrown around like a rag doll.
To AustinBrave
June 24th, 2009
2:42 pm
I like Luke Scott, forget about Brian Roberts. But the Orioles will make moves to improve their pitching. So you have to offer a decent pitcher to get him. Not sure if Medlen and JoJo would be enough value.
Tommy Wildfire Rich
June 24th, 2009
2:43 pm
Phil,
The Braves are more likely to sweep the A’s in the World Series than to finish behind the Nationals. Bobby Cox has been in the baseball business for longer than most of us have been alive. Don’t pretend to know more than he does about the game by calling him a moron. I mean, he doesn’t tell you how to dig ditches.
Tommy Wildfire Rich
June 24th, 2009
2:44 pm
Phil, define “several years”. Does several mean 3 now?
Phil
June 24th, 2009
2:51 pm
According to Webster, several is more than 2 or 3.
Mark Bradley
June 24th, 2009
2:51 pm
I’d say Tommy Hanson going 3-0 has been deleterious to Medlen’s future with the Atlanta Braves.
Mike
June 24th, 2009
2:53 pm
TWR- if you consider trading an up and coming arm for a .250 hitter then you should apply for GM job at Turner Field. Wait, someone that thinks like you already has that job. Sorry, back to the fries…..
Tommy Wildfire Rich
June 24th, 2009
2:55 pm
Did anyone seriously think Medlen was going to block Hanson’s path to a rotation spot. I like the little guy, but his ceiling is servicable at best.
Tommy Wildfire Rich
June 24th, 2009
2:57 pm
Mike- “People in the know” across the baseball world agree that the Braves raped the Pirates on that deal. Keep holding on and maybe buy a Charlie Morton Yakult Swallows jersey to Braves games at Turner Field in protest.
Swaga1
June 24th, 2009
2:58 pm
I don’t understand y u guys keep trying to make this team something that they are clearly not….this team isn’t going anywhere this year. They will prove this to you when they fall on their faces b4 the all-star break. The Braves have no devoted ownership, an outdated manager and players who lack fire. Until they get rid of this old fashioned southern “business conservative approach” to baseball, 3rd place is all they will be.
Mike
June 24th, 2009
3:01 pm
“People in the know”. I’m laughing MAO! Why didn’t you just say “they”?
Hillbilly Deluxe
June 24th, 2009
3:01 pm
Can they do it? They can. Will they do it? It’s unlikely.
Tommy Wildfire Rich
June 24th, 2009
3:03 pm
Because “they” wouldn’tfit my sentence. Have you heard anyone in the baseball world say this was a bad trade for the Braves??? Or are you just one of those stubborn people that never admits they’re wrong? Where would that “up and coming arm” fit in with the Atlanta Braves???
Paul Lentz
June 24th, 2009
3:05 pm
Mark Bradley………………how can you say that the Rangers are “playing well”? 2 weeks ago, the Rangers were 5 games in first. They were swept over the weekend by the Giants. As of today, they are tied with the Angels. And you have to know that the Angels will not stand pat as the trade deadline approaches.
Matt Harrison, whom many of you cried when he was included in the Tex trade in July of 2007……was rocked for 7 runs on 7 hits with 4 walks in 3 2/3 innings last night. For the season he is 4-5 with an ERA of 6.11, 63 innings pitched, 81 hits, 9 homers, 23 walks, 34 strikeouts, and a WHIP of 1.64. Hitters are batting .316 against him.
Sounds like another Horatio Ramirez.
The Rangers need pitching. The Angels are playing much better than the Phillies and Mets. A month from now, I can very well see the Braves being in first place, and the Rangers being 6 or 7 games out of first.
Phil
June 24th, 2009
3:05 pm
Swaga1,
Don’t say anything bad about Cox, you are going to upset Tommy Wildfire Rich. One thing you were right about Tommy, Cox has been in baseball longer than most of us have been alive. He’s been around so long he’s completely senile and needs to retire. Good point, glad you brought that up.
Tommy Wildfire Rich
June 24th, 2009
3:05 pm
“No Mr. Wren, please don’t trade Tyler Flowers for that washed up Vazquez!!!”
Tommy Wildfire Rich
June 24th, 2009
3:10 pm
Lou Piniella has “fire”. His talented team has underachieved. Larry Bowa has “fire” and it got him fired twice. Maybe you want Bobby Valentine. That’s a tired argument. Joe Torre is more stoic than Bobby. Francona’s demeanor has been compared to BC’s many times. That “fire” argument is tired and unfounded.
fieldofdreams
June 24th, 2009
3:12 pm
Didn’t you just write them off? They do have a shot but it’ll take a shot in the arm from Frank Wren; they need a reliable RBI man in the four hole. Where’s Tony Perez when you need him? If Huddy can pitch effectively, we’ll have excess inventory on the mound from which to deal.
Tommy Wildfire Rich
June 24th, 2009
3:13 pm
Phil, did you forget how long Bobby had been in the game? Did you need me to bring it up to remind you?
Phil
June 24th, 2009
3:15 pm
I didn’t forget, although I wish I could forget how long we have been saddled with him. Hey man, I’m going to send Abdullah the Butcher over to take care of you.
Tommy Wildfire Rich
June 24th, 2009
3:17 pm
Are you at Abdullah’s Ribs and Chinese food? Wahoo’s got my back.
Ralph
June 24th, 2009
3:20 pm
Braves will never win another championship as long as Bobby Cox is at the helm. He is getting the credit for winning those 14 in a row but the truth is a dummy could have managed that pitching staff and won and the truth is A DUMMY DID.
Phil
June 24th, 2009
3:21 pm
I just gave Abdullah a picture of Cox and he ate it. I think he wants Cox gone as well.
Phil
June 24th, 2009
3:22 pm
Good one Ralph!
Baba O'Riley
June 24th, 2009
3:24 pm
I see the Bobby hatin’, Teeball coachin’ baseball geniuses are out today. later
Flip and flop: The story of a Braves' blogger's life | Mark Bradley
June 24th, 2009
3:25 pm
[...] be finished, at least as a vibrant entity, by the Fourth of July. Today I wrote there’s a way they can win the NL East. And now you’re saying, “There Bradley goes again, flip-flopping like a flounder on the [...]
Horner's Corner
June 24th, 2009
3:25 pm
Tommy Wildfire Rich – You continue to beat me to the punch today, you’re on fire. A couple of follow ups:
Anyone who, to this point, has been disappointed watching McLouth should find a different sport to follow. The guy is as advertised. Good hitter with power and speed; solid defensively and posses great all around baseball instincts. The move against the Cubs when he sprinted home on the Sac Fly because he saw Prado tagging up and moving to second was priceless.
Everyone is entitled to dislike Bobby, but suggesting he got lucky last night by pulling Hanson (when he was obviously out of gas and ready to face the top of the line-up for the third time) and bringing in Moylan is absurd. It was the right move and it worked out accordingly.
joe(shoyo wang)
June 24th, 2009
3:27 pm
oh you bobby cox bashers. living room sofa managers. backseat drivers. there’s nothing wrong with questioning various moves that managers make, even HOF managers, but to say that a DUMMY can run a baseball team, well, all I can say is I’m glad YOU the real DUMMY is not running the Braves. Besides when to bring in relief pitchers and basic strategical moves, none of us even have the ability to be half the DUMMY it takes to run a major league baseball team. You armchair experts crack me up and piss me off at the same time.
LSU
June 24th, 2009
3:27 pm
My prediction was a 3 game winning streak before one of the AJC blogmiesters would start a blog saying “We can do it”, but it only took a 2 game winning streak for that to happen.
Mark, as long as the Braves pitchers can keep hanging zeros on our opponents, and the Braves offense can average 1 run a game, than I’m sure we’ll win the division, the NLCS, and the WS…Maybe even Kelly Johnson will become the next Mr. October. >please insert mucho sarcasm in my post<
Tommy Wildfire Rich
June 24th, 2009
3:28 pm
Horns- Last night’s pull of Hanson has been conveniently ommitted by the Bobby bashers. If he woulda left Hanson in, he would be bashed as well.
LSU
June 24th, 2009
3:30 pm
Also, speaking of winning streaks.
Go Tigers!!!
A one game winning streak after tonight would be beautiful.
ATL FAN
June 24th, 2009
3:34 pm
Bobby isn’t a “dummy” or any other disparaging term. He’s a decent man who happens to go by the book – no mixing it up. I just think he’s ready for retirement. Also, I agree 10000000% with Swaga1: this ownership and management is so extremely button down, short-sighted, anything to save a buck, southern conservative, unimaginative… it makes me puke.
LSU
June 24th, 2009
3:37 pm
I quit bashing Bobby, but I wonder when he’ll start taking responsibility for 3 1/2 years of bad to mediocre Braves baseball?
I mean after all, Bobby is credited as being the main reason for 14 straight division titles, no?
Hmmmmm, all those titles and only 1 World Series championship.
Ralph
June 24th, 2009
3:55 pm
I wouldn’t go so far as to say that Bobby is retarded but he sure is a slow learner. Case in point, how long did it take and how many losses before he realized that Shafer could not hit big league pitching and he still hasn’ figured out that KJ and francouer are costing the braves any chance of a playoff when he has Prodo and Diaz on the bench and how long will it take for him to realize that the team would be better off letting the pitchers hit for themselves than using Blanco and Norton, all the pitchers his as well as they do.
Mike
June 24th, 2009
3:56 pm
Cox is no fool. He has not done a good job with the bullpen this year, but he does have a pitching coach that shares some of that blame….and a front office. Having said that, this team has the pieces in place to be a better than average team. That’s it. An over-achieving Braves team will compete for a wild-card spot. Nothing more. If they go 3-4 games over .500 and win the division because everyone else falters, then I guess that’s like winning the lottery.
Swaga1
June 24th, 2009
4:00 pm
Exactly LSU-
How in the world do you just win 1 world championship with the pitching that bobby cox had. We had the yankees dead to rights in 96 and look what happened. I’m not saying bobby cox is not worth his due but now its time to send him out to pasteur.
Ray Pugh
June 24th, 2009
4:00 pm
Bobby Cox is no fool, but you sir, are: if you can’t see our problem is hitting, then you wouldn’t know what to do w/ a naked Megan Fox if she walked into your office.
Ralph
June 24th, 2009
4:03 pm
Last night the yankees sent up two pinch hitters with a total of 24 HR’s and Cox sent up Blanco.
stew
June 24th, 2009
4:06 pm
Why does everyone think Infante is the answer at 2B? He’s a great utility player but not an everyday player. When was the last time he played everyday or put up 550 ABs? We need a right handed power hitter. There aren’t many out there. We’re in trouble if we’re facing a lefty. That said, Vasquez is having an allstar year. Good pitching beats good hitting. You never have enough good pitching and I not sold on Kawakami or Huddy making an impact this year. I’d trade Vasquez and Francoise and a prospect or 2 for Braun. Maybe something could worked out for Lee.We need righty power.
WILD BILL
June 24th, 2009
4:06 pm
Forget all the scenarios & trades. BOTTOM LINE, WE NEED A RIGHT HANDED POWER BAT IN RIGHT FIELD, whoever that might be but its not Frenchy. Garret/Diaz in left, Infante/Prado at second, & Kotchman at first are servicable, but gotta have another big bat to compete to be in the Show or its just not gonna happen. Our outfield is the worst in baseball, Blanco & Frenchy are not major leagers, Norton should be cut & play Ross at first to platoon with no power Casey. If we dont get a REAL rightfielder there ‘ll be no October baseball here 4 years runnin thats for Dam sure.
Pretend Hero
June 24th, 2009
4:07 pm
So your premise is that a team trying to get into the playoffs should trade the NL strike out leader in the hopes that a player coming back from a major injury will be ready to play in the stretch run? Not only that, you are saying that a team not in the race is going to be a buyer coming up to the deadline? The only reason the National would want Vasquez is if they have another team to send him to.
Vasquez is pitching well and has legit playoff experience. Please dont trade him if we have a chance at the playoffs. For a top prospect when we are out of the race, sure. If we can stay in the race, its either going to take prospects to bring in a bat (or some speed), or someone to step up and start to hit.
There are really no hitters at Gwinnett, so its hard to hope for an Andruw Jones type appearance late in the year from someone in the minors.
Trading prospects with the hope of making a push for the playoffs makes me cringe. This team cant make a real run at the Dodgers, so please dont sell the future to finish just out of the race again this year.
Ray Pugh
June 24th, 2009
4:07 pm
Swaga1:
The reason we didn’t win more titles in the 90s was the bullpen–Bobby had little, if any, to do with it. JS did not consider it to be a high priority in the budget, for which he was somewhat wise. However, it came back to bite us at very inopportune moments…
Oh yeah, and I was 11 years old then and even I knew that…
BRAVES FAN SINCE BIRTH!!
June 24th, 2009
4:07 pm
Y didnt we jus sign the guy n the off-seaseon
nub
June 24th, 2009
4:11 pm
what r u smokin .. u dont give up good pitchers …period
Ray Pugh
June 24th, 2009
4:14 pm
because FW, although a good GM, looked at Dunn and saw a defensive liability who strikes out too much instead of one of the premier hitters in the game. Sounds like most of you buffoons…
JayDub
June 24th, 2009
4:16 pm
Vazquez for Dunn is an idotic thought … let me count the ways:
1 – no contender trades quality pitching, you say. There is a reason for that!
2) The Nats have quality young starters. They would not want Vazquez.
3) The Nats signed Dunn to bring people to the ballpark, they do not want to trade him.
4) The Braves are in no position to take on Dunn’s contract. We could have signed him in the offseason. We didn’t want him then, we don’t want him now.
5) Frency often costs us at the plate and often saves us in the field. Dunn would save us at the plate and cost us in the field.
Mark Bradley
June 24th, 2009
4:16 pm
Having seen this offense work (and not work) through 66 games, I’m thinking Mr. Wren’s opinion of Adam Dunn might have evolved.
gboh
June 24th, 2009
4:20 pm
I keep missing something. Why is the name Adam Dunn continually floated as a desirable commodity? He hits .240-.250. He strikes out constantly. He hits home runs when it doesn’t really matter. Oh, and has anyone seen him play in the field? Yikes! Mark, I just don’t see what value he would bring to the Braves. If you’re going to be a team based on pitching you better have a good defense. Dunn would make it decidedly worse no matter where you put him. Not a good deal at all. I wouldn’t even swap Francoeur straight up for Dunn.
Mark Bradley
June 24th, 2009
4:23 pm
Maybe because Adam Dunn has 18 home runs and 50 RBIs on a last-place team.
Ray Pugh
June 24th, 2009
4:25 pm
JayDub
Please allow me to retort:
1) They do if they have a stockpile like we do and other glaring needs–the Sawx were entertaining offers for Brad Penny but nothing suited them.
2) Most are in the low minors or unproven (Strausburg)–not to mention they have decent offense w/out Dunn. OR, ever heard of a 3-way trade? Braves-Rangers-Nats makes pretty good sense
3) Zimmerman has emerged as the star of team–not to mention the above-mentioned Strausburg will be here next season.
4) Dunn makes w/in $1.5 million of Vazquez’s 2009 salary
5) if you believe this, then you’re dumber than I thought…
Phil
June 24th, 2009
4:27 pm
Frank Wren is indeed a buffoon. And because of that, he turns to Cox for every decision on player personnel, I would bet anything on that. This roster was set by Cox.
Wild Bill, you are right, our outfield is the worst in baseball.
Ray Pugh, you say our hitting is the problem. You think TP is doing a good job? Who hired TP? Who has NOT fired TP? Cox. It all comes back to Cox.
Ray Pugh
June 24th, 2009
4:28 pm
Let’s see:
1) a .400 on base percentage, the most important offensive statistic in the game
2) proven, consistent power in a variety of different home ballparks. Currently 18 bombs this year
3) doesn’t just hit homeruns: he’s got 10 2bs so far this year
4) Oh, and did I mention 55 walks (!). His eye is one of the best in game.
Ray Pugh
June 24th, 2009
4:29 pm
gboh go back to the entertainment boards where you can argue over John and Kate + 8, something closer to your comprehension level…
Horner's Corner
June 24th, 2009
4:31 pm
Pugh – FW saw a defensive liability who strikes out too much because that’s exactly what Dunn is! In addition, FW didn’t have the budget available to sign him. Did you notice that no other contending organization made a strong effort to sign Dunn this off season? His price tag was WAY too high for his skill set. Now I will admit that I was very disappointed the Braves made little effort to get either Ibanez or Abreu. Both players were available late in the off-season, both were available at a far cheaper rate than Dunn and neither had shown a statistical decline over the last few years that was as blatant as G. Anderson’s.
Ray Pugh
June 24th, 2009
4:33 pm
Bobby Cox didn’t hire TP you rube, the front office did. Sure, Bobby may be in his corner, but if the FO had some balls, they would send TP packing. But still, does TP physically swing into those grounders for Francoeur?
Swaga1
June 24th, 2009
4:34 pm
Ray pugh-
The reality is that bobby is too loyal to players who do not perform. U have to “manage” the bullpen and from my recollection we had a decent bullpen, its just that bobby waits too late until a pitcher gives up the lead to make a move…and u don’t even have to be 5 yrs old to see that.
Ray Pugh
June 24th, 2009
4:38 pm
He could have if he didn’t sign KK and Anderson, but I understand why he did what he did. I am arguing along w/ Mr. Bradley in favor of a trade for Dunn. BTW, we’re gonna have so much $$ off the books after this season that Liberty would agree to fork over a few more million.
ATL FAN
June 24th, 2009
4:39 pm
Over Adam Dunn’s career he has averaged 30-35 homers and 90-100 RBI. Hmmmmm… Anyone think Frenchy will come close to that? And while Frenchy does have a terrific arm in right field, our issue isn’t about holding others from scoring; it’s about us being unable to score. It’s over for this team when trailing after the 6th!
The only issue I see with Dunn is his contract. Currently in a 2 year deal worth 20 mill? No way the Braves will take that on. Their approach? Look for another cheap way to tweak the team.
Phil
June 24th, 2009
4:40 pm
You think the front office hired TP without getting consent from Cox? Don’t think so. All Cox has to do is say the word and TP is gone. We do agree that TP needs to be sent packing.
Mike
June 24th, 2009
4:40 pm
Wow Ray. Lot’s of posts. Perhaps when the unemployment money runs out we’ll hear less from you.
The Braves have problems in the pen and at the plate. Are you happy now? I got that from “people in the know.”
Rick in Big D
June 24th, 2009
4:44 pm
Let’s see we got a pitcher in Javier Vazquez that pitches early 5th day and goes deep into games and strikes out lots of folks. He is under contract. This is a guy you don’t trade
Ray Pugh
June 24th, 2009
4:47 pm
Regardless of my current employment status/living arrangements in my parents’ basement/Adam Dunn poster on the wall of said basement, it does not negate the crux of my argument.
Swaga1
June 24th, 2009
4:50 pm
signing KK was the biggest joke of the offseason..we could have signed Dunn with that money…KK says he puts his soul into his pitches, i guess he doesn’t have one because his pitches aren’t worth crap…the braves should have just kept glavine for that spot, they throw about the same speeds. Dunn would b a major upgrade over Franceour anyday….The Franceour argument is over and his career is pretty much over as well. Package him with a couple of glad bags to carry his Bulls#$t.
Ray Pugh
June 24th, 2009
4:52 pm
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coach k
June 24th, 2009
4:54 pm
hell yea all we need is a mgr, hitting coach and 1 bat that can blast us 24 home runs second half, love this team, start Prado ant 2nd NOW and package Kelly and Frenchy and go get a bat! Go Braves
Mitch C
June 24th, 2009
4:58 pm
Mark, as much as I’d like to have Dunn, even with all his strikeouts, I would be very afraid to part with Javy Vazquez.
This isnt 2001, where Smoltz came back from TJ surgery, and our rotation had stellar Hall of Fame pitchers in our rotation like Glavine and Greg Maddux, and solid Kevin Millwood. Jair and Lowe have been very good, but besides them, what do we have? Vazquez has been a major key to us staying as close as we’ve been. Trading Vazquez causes two problems for us. One, it takes away the solid starting pitcher in our rotation, and two, Hudson is a free agent after this year. Is it really wise for Frank W to give Huddy, say, three or four years, 15 mil a year, coming off TJ surgery? Yes, I know John S did it with Smoltz in 2001, which is precisely what he and Tommy Glavine fought about during their contract dispute in 2002. It’s just a very risky proposition. Then there’s the chance that we could trade Javy, bring Dunn here, and Hudson might leave anyway, so we would be down potentially two starting pitchers, and start next year with Lowe, Jair, Tommy Hanson, and who knows? KK cant be counted on as anything more than a fifth starter, maybe. Our rotation would have a huge hole in it if FW does what you suggested.
I see your position, and I’m trying to look at it from the perspective that you did, but I just think that given all the variables, such would be too risky a proposition.
Mitch
Pete
June 24th, 2009
5:05 pm
Mark, the chances of the Braves winning the East are about the same as are my chances of a date with Jennifer Anniston…..slim and none. And Slim just left town.
joe
June 24th, 2009
5:36 pm
Ah, the intelligence. Only someone who is a future reader and of supreme intelligence can predict that the Braves have no chance of winning the division when they are 4 games behind with 90+ games to go. I wish I was as smart as that.
Tommy Wildfire Rich
June 24th, 2009
5:52 pm
Why did Bobby hang that slider to Jim Leyritz in the ‘96 WS? Everyone knew that Bobby Leyritz couldn’t catch up to a fastball, yet he throws a slider to a slider-speed bat. Damn you Bobby Cox, why did you throw a slider?
Pete
June 24th, 2009
5:53 pm
joe: “Ah, the intelligence. Only someone who is a future reader and of supreme intelligence can predict that the Braves have no chance of winning the division when they are 4 games behind with 90+ games to go.”
Joe, its not anywhere near that simple. If the Braves were 4 games behind just 1 team, then its a whole different story. But they are behind 3 teams, and its so much harder passing 3 teams than it is passing just 1 team.
Tommy Wildfire Rich
June 24th, 2009
5:54 pm
Bobby, why didn’t you watch the ball hit into the outfield in the ‘91 WS? You were running on the pitch and let Knoblauch decoy you at 2nd base. You should have surely scored on that double in the gap. Damn you Bobby Cox, you should have picked up your third base coach when you were approaching 2nd.
Pete
June 24th, 2009
5:59 pm
Tommy, youre point is well taken re: Bobby didnt throw the slider or run the bases. But the reverse is also true: he never hit any 3 run homers, or pitch the Game 6 shutout to win the Series…or did he? Yet he received the accolades when they won 14 titles without him doing any of that, and when they struggle as last 2-3 years, its always the players fault. My point is you cant have it both ways.
joe
June 24th, 2009
6:00 pm
Pete, and what would you say if,due to some good pitching and timely hitting, the Braves win every series on this homestand, which they are fully CAPABLE of doing given the way they are currently playing? What would you say if the Braves sweep the Phils. This is a team that has underachieved, not overachieved. A few breaks here and there, if Braves can steal a win tonight, they can get on a real roll.
but thank you for pointing out to me the intricacies of division standings. after watching baseball for 17 years, I had no idea that any given team is not capable of putting a run together and overtaking one or more teams in the division.
the fact of the matter is, the braves are 4 games behind the leaders with 90 games left. all four teams are within 4 games of the leader, which is to say the team that has the best head to head record with the other teams in the division will have the best chance of winning. i guess i am the only one who is dumb enough to think that the Braves have just a good a chance as anyone else in doing just that.
Jeff R
June 24th, 2009
6:06 pm
Why would the Nats take Vazquez? They’re building with youth. I’d imagine that they’d want prospects for Dunn, unless they thought they could flip Vazquez for prospects from another contender.
joe
June 24th, 2009
6:17 pm
Pete,
regarding your posts on bobby cox. he doesn’t try to have it both ways. he is the first to deflect any praise that he received during that remarkable run on to the players. he will admit that it was rather easy for him to manage such a talented team year after year. but that is not to say that he had some severe challenges with some braves teams, ie the russ ortiz era, the baby braves era, and the years at the beginning of the decade when he had an obviously declining staff of glavine and maddux and a revolving door at first base, a bullpen of has beens and castoffs and still won.
you severely discount the skill it must take to continue to win in those circumstances, and i dont believe it is all on the players in situations such as that. and again, bobby, during these non-winning years, is not blaming the players rather than himself for the lack of production. he doesnt go on record and blame the hitters, saying there’s only so much i can do! no manager is perfect, but when people have such a short memory and point out from their armchairs that bobby is such a crappy manager, that is severe disrepect for someone who has given this franchise so much, and will end up in the hall of fame. not to mention, there is a LOT to be said for players continually praising Cox and the way he handles his business in the clubhouse and on the field. but i suppose you all know better than the players on how good of a manager bobby cox is and has been.
Tommy Wildfire Rich
June 24th, 2009
6:33 pm
So….we are not able to pass 3 teams within 4 games of us with 90 games to go?
Jan
June 24th, 2009
7:09 pm
Pardon me while I get you a “get real” pill. Braves could have had Dunn for a song in the off season and they continually passed him up. To think to trade a horse like JV for someone we could have had straight up is ludicrous. You just lost my vote for virtual GM of the year. KK to the pen if the Hoss is ready in August. Keep young, exciting, effective pitching. The Braves are going to break you heart if you really think they can win. Just don’t trade the pitching.
Mike
June 24th, 2009
7:40 pm
Well Ray, at least you’re a sport about it. I’ll give you that. Let’s hope the Braves can string together a better second half.
CTrim
June 24th, 2009
7:47 pm
We might have a shot if we let Kurt Rambis manange the away games.
Realistic Fan
June 24th, 2009
9:05 pm
Can pigs fly? NO? Same chance as the Braves winning the NL least.
Pete
June 24th, 2009
10:06 pm
joe: “Pete, and what would you say if,due to some good pitching and timely hitting, the Braves win every series on this homestand, which they are fully CAPABLE of doing given the way they are currently playing? What would you say if the Braves sweep the Phils. This is a team that has underachieved, not overachieved. A few breaks here and there, if Braves can steal a win tonight, they can get on a real roll.”
You can play the “what if” game all you want. What youre suggesting is the Braves will win 7 out of 9 games against the Yanks, Red Sox and Phillies, and my response is there is no reason in the world to think they will do that. But if you want to believe it, thats fine; I take a much more realistic view. Youre ignoring the fact they have to pass 3 teams, and not just 1. If they were 4 games behind just 1 team, I would be on your side of the arguement re: they certainly would have a decent chance to win it. But behind 3 teams? Not gonna happen.
Just back from Gwinnett Braves game; great stadium.
Pete
June 24th, 2009
10:14 pm
joe: “regarding your posts on bobby cox. he doesn’t try to have it both ways.”
You misunderstood. I wasnt saying Cox wants it both ways; I was saying those who always support Cox want it both ways. That is, when things are going great such as in the 90’s through ‘05, Cox received a ton of accolades for the way he managed. But when things arent going so well, it has nothing to do with Cox; its the players. Thats what I mean by having it both ways. You yourself said the Braves have underachieved so far; doesnt the manager bear any responsibility for that?
Mike
June 24th, 2009
10:16 pm
As I was saying about the bullpen…………and oh yeah, why is Escobar still on this team?
Pete
June 24th, 2009
10:21 pm
Tommy Wildfire Rich: “So….we are not able to pass 3 teams within 4 games of us with 90 games to go?”
The way this team is constructed now, I do not believe so. Of course its possible; anything is. Im just saying its not probable. A team under .500 this late in June, and that plays so poorly at home….just seems very doubtful to me is all Im saying.
Pete
June 24th, 2009
11:02 pm
joe: ” i guess i am the only one who is dumb enough to think that the Braves have just a good a chance as anyone else in doing just that.”
You are definitely NOT the only one.
Mark P.
June 24th, 2009
11:08 pm
There is absolutely no reason to believe that Tim Hudson will step back into the rotation and be the pitcher he was before surgery. The next pitcher who returns from this surgery and immediately regains his form will be the first. It will probably be sometime next year before he can be a seven inning quality pitcher. To count on him to be the old Hudson in August is questionable at best and foolhardy at worst.
Wayn-o
June 25th, 2009
12:27 am
How about Medlin, Kotchman, Francoeur & low level prospect for Adrian Gonzalez?
mferris01
June 25th, 2009
9:44 am
I don’t agree with trading JV. We definitely need a big bat but I would package any combination of Kotchman, Francouer, and minor leaguers to get it. Kotchman just doesn’t produce the power numbers that a first baseman should.
A Lowe-down dirty shame -- the Braves' ace is in a hole | Mark Bradley
June 26th, 2009
2:21 pm
[...] days ago I called Derek Lowe the Braves’ ace because that’s how I’ve come to see him. Alas, he’s not pitching like one. We can [...]
MIke
June 27th, 2009
7:08 am
Did someone say “all we need is a 7-3 series.” Well it’s looking more like 3-7. This team literally looks like a AA ballclub when the big boys are across the diamond.
It’s not even respectable anymore. Last night, Chip Carey was celebrating the fact that the shutout was broken up.
Too bad MLB doesn’t add a column for moral victories.
Bradley's Buzz: Buster helps the Braves make a deal! | Mark Bradley
July 6th, 2009
11:45 am
[...] My match: Adam Dunn of Washington. [...]
John
July 6th, 2009
4:39 pm
Trade Lowe instead of Vazquez.. vazquez is the ace on this team, not Lowe. Lowe is getting old and his performance will continue to decrease worse than it has this year and these next years.I want Adam Dunn on this team bad though.
The Hot Button: Should the Braves be buyers or sellers? | Mark Bradley
August 24th, 2009
7:33 pm
[...] answer two weeks ago was yes. My answer today would be no. I don’t believe that’s what Wren’s answer would be, [...]