The Hot Button: Do the Braves need a new manager?
He’s the best manager I’ve ever seen. He’s the best manager I’ll ever see. That said …
I’m not sure Bobby Cox is the best manager for what the Braves have become.
They’ve gone from being great over 15 seasons to being not very good the past 3 1/2. There’s still a aura of assurance around Turner Field, a feeling that, “Oh, we’re the Braves and we’ll figure out something,” but the Braves haven’t figured out much since Brian McCann and Jeff Francoeur were rookies. No, the manager hasn’t stopped managing, but this sort of team needs more managing than Cox likes to do.
He’s a player’s guy, now and forever. He loves his players and treats them like men. The Braves of the ’90s were indeed men, even those who arrived as rookies. They were serious about the game and serious about winning for this manager. I’m not sure what some of these Braves take seriously.
Who can reach Yunel Escobar? Who can instruct Jeff Francoeur in the art of plate management? Who can break the news that Kelly Johnson has 10 days more to prove he belongs in the bigs? Maybe another manager. It’s not this manager’s style.
And his style, we should never forget, worked in a way no other manager’s — not John McGraw’s, not Walter Alston’s, not Sparky Anderson’s — ever has. Fifteen times running Cox brought a team north from spring training and over 15 full seasons he finished first every time. (This counts his 1985 Toronto Blue Jays but not the 1990 Braves, whom he inherited in June, or the 1994 Braves, who were shut down in August by the strike.) He’s a great manager by every measure, maybe the greatest ever.
Loading ...But not every great manager is great with every team, and the neo-Braves don’t respond to avuncular urgings. Maybe they’re not good enough to respond to anything, but as the Braves get younger it seems more likely they’ll see Cox not as a cinch Hall of Famer but as the guy who doesn’t rip them in print or make them work very hard. They’ll see him as a player’s manager, but they’ll neglect to play for him.
It has gotten too easy to be an Atlanta Brave. With few exceptions, these Braves enjoy the reflection of success without having achieved the success itself. They might respond even less favorably to a manager less gentle, but it’s not as if they’re responding to this one.
Via iPhone — yes, he has an iPhone — from Cincinnati, Cox was asked Thursday morning if he felt he was reaching his players. “What do you mean?” he said.
Do they listen to his message, or are they just not good enough for a message to matter? “No, they listen,” Cox said.
But nothing’s working. When you hold the Reds to four hits and get beat on a three-run homer by the Cincinnati pitcher, something’s not right.
OK, you’re asking: Would I fire Bobby Cox? Absolutely not. He’s one of three reasons — John Schuerholz and starting pitching are the other two — the Braves became the Braves. If he wants to keep trying to restore this team to eminence, I’d afford him that chance. He has earned the benefit of every doubt.
But phrase the question differently — if I were hiring someone to manage these Braves, would I hire Cox? — and my answer might be different. And I say that for his sake. I respect the man too much to see him lose with players who have little sense of what it once meant to be a Brave.
I like Bobby Cox. I don’t like what the Braves have become.
For further reading: The Braves aren’t in the market for a manager and mightn’t be anytime soon. But if they were, here are two men I’d consider.
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386 comments Add your comment
o-me
June 19th, 2009
12:55 am
If 14 great years with 3 HOF pitchers makes Cox GREAT, Then how would you rank Leo Mazzone, He was the spark plug for those HOF pitchers. In fact” Bobby the Great” has not won anything since Leo left. So maybe it was Leo’s doing not Cox.
When a team goes bad, the buck stops with the Coach, mgr. Thats Little League, Babe Ruth, High School ,College and the Pros. Thats just the way it is. Bobby needs to go.
Liberty Braves
June 19th, 2009
1:01 am
There is good corporate ownership, and bad corporate ownership. Good corporate ownership is interested in the making the team competitive and poors money into the team.
Bad corporate ownership doesn’t put competiveness on the top of the priority list. Liberty Media falls under this.
Poorbrave
June 19th, 2009
1:23 am
PT and Mark should read the story in ajc on Andruw’s Texas pitching Coach and how he now sees the light because the Ranger Pitching Coach can teach which he didn,t get here.
People in Baseball never say anything bad about Bobby…thats true because you don’t burn bridges you may cross again. Baseball is a brotherhood, you keep your mouth shut are you will be out.It seem to be the same with some reporters, they don’t wish to get black balled by home team. Right AJC reports.
PHIL
June 19th, 2009
2:47 am
Idiocy to blame coaches for what players do. Firing Cox won’t keep Frenchy from swinging at bad pitches, won’t make Kelly be able to hit, wont make that lazy Anderson we have in left field hustle. Players play, coaches coach. It’s not tactics that are keeping the Braves from scoring it’s players who just aren’t all that good.
David
June 19th, 2009
3:24 am
Remember the saying “Coaches are hired to be fired”. Bobby Cox has done a great job over the years but watching the braves the last few seasons, you can tell the players just don’t play hard the man anymore.
This is why I think they need to go in a new direction but he should be ask to retire after this season and if he doesn’t then they need to let him go, just think, he might pull a Tommy Glavin.
r martin die hard braves fan
June 19th, 2009
3:41 am
ITS NOT BOBBYS FAULT!!!!!FRANK WYNN MUST GO!!!!!!!!
D-Nice
June 19th, 2009
4:56 am
Joe Torre was even let go by the Yankees (forced out/let go=same thing). Bobby was a better GM than coach if you ask me because we blew 3 of those World Series when we clearly had the better team and also no way you get swept by the Yankees. Charlie Liebrandt is not pitching and I am figuring out a way to score one run for Smoltz because we deserved tha game. Can someone tell me how we blow the Yankees out the 1st 2 games then up by 7 in game 4 and somehow lose it and the series. Unbelievable. Atlanta is a city of overhype ala matthew stafford so what do you expect.
r martin die hard braves fan
June 19th, 2009
5:20 am
terrance moore used to be the worst for ajc. now i wonder should yiou go too!
Will
June 19th, 2009
5:34 am
Let’s get the media focused on the real issue – we need a hitting coach.
willieg
June 19th, 2009
6:01 am
KEEP BOOBY COX HE MAKES ME TO MUCH MONEY,GET RID OF CHIPPER,AND JOHNSON AND YOU MIGHT HAVE A CHANCE TO FINISN IN 5TH PLACE,BY JULY 2ND THE BRAVES WILL BE 13GAMES OUT,THEN THE FIRE SALE SHALL START THAT IS WHEN I WILL HAVE TO FIND ANOTHER TEAM TO MAKE MONEY OFF OF,PROBABLY OH YEA, I FORGOT YOUR NEW MANAGER WHEN COX RETIRES,WILL BE NEDYOST, OR GET THE FUEL STARTED BOBBY VALENTINE FROM JAPAN,THANK YOU BRAVES FOR MAKING ME ALOT OF MONEY WHEN YOU WERE GOOD AND NOW YOUR SO BAD,THIS TEAM WILL GO ON A BIG LOOSING STREAK AND THEN BOBBY WILL RESIGN,YANKEES WIN DAAAAAAA YANKEES WIN.
frank
June 19th, 2009
6:37 am
A manager is only as good as the players and support the front office give him.
hop
June 19th, 2009
6:54 am
the problem is NOT bobby cox but a general manager who does not have a clue.
the braves continue to trade their best talent for some worn out veteran who has since lost it.
the model the braves are using is a small-end market using young players to carry the water,i.e. tampa bay and the marlins.
this is not all bad since both have experience a measure of success.
fire frank wrenn and get a GM who knows how to win with young players.
Coach ( 2010 or Bust)
June 19th, 2009
7:11 am
Bobby Cox is among the best ten managers of all time. The man is a winner, period. Universally loved by players, he has stuck around major league baseball for the better part of half a century. The man bleeds baseball. Cox is a players manager because he treats them like men and they in turn, treat him like a father. And like most fathers, Cox is loved by all who truly know the man.
Bobby will waltz into Cooperstown on the first ballot as a two time World Series manager. Yes, surprise. The man has not one but two WS rings to his credit. Cox was the 1st base coach on the 1977 WS Champion New York Yankees under the management of Billy Martin.
Among other things, Cox is the GM who rebuilt the Braves minor league system in the first place. Cox was the same GM and manager who brought Leo Mazzone on board and also had a a hand in the hiring of none other than John Schuerholz. He also drafted Chipper Jones. Simply put, Bobby Cox defines greatness. The man has won in both leagues. Taking both the Braves and Blue Jays into the post season.
I said all that to say this. Cox has far outlived his greatness. With every year he manages his legacy is tarnished. He will always be a one trick pony as 1995 was the only season where the man got it all right for at least one full season as a manager. You don’t take fourteen straight teams into the post season without doing a lot of things right in the regular season, and even more things wrong in the post season by coming away with just one Championship team. Cox will never be the greatest tactician and he is undoubtedly, his own worst enemy. Overrated? In a word, Yes. First ballot Hall of Fame? Yes. Should he keep managing? The results speak for themselves. Cox needs to retire and I think he knows it.
I wish the man all the best and I will cheer like mad when Bobby is inducted into Cooperstown. I also hope he calls it a career, and soon.
Flush TP
June 19th, 2009
8:04 am
Why in all the talks of what is ailing the Braves is Pendleton never brought up? Don’t get me wrong, he was one of my favorite players when he was playing for the Braves. However, he does not seem to have what it takes as a hitting coach. Every player on the team gets worse and worse behind the plate the longer they work with him. McCann and Chipper are the only two consistent hitters on the team and they seek help from their fathers. Andruw goes to Texas and reinvigorates his career with help from a good hitting coach. Francoeur straightened his swing out once when he spent 2 days with Mississippi’s coach and the second time this off season when he worked with Texas’ coach.
Why is it that TP seems to be the only person on the staff that Frank Wren has any loyalty to?
Tim L.
June 19th, 2009
8:23 am
Different question – if you were hiring an owner would you hire Liberty Media? Have you really seen an increased budget?
Kotchman at 2.9M replaces Teixeira at 12.5M,
Kawakami at 3.7M replaces Glavine at 10M,
Vazquez at 11.5M replaces Smoltz at 14M,
Lowe at 15M replaces Hampton at 15M (wash),
O’Flaherty at 0.4M replaces Ohman at 1.6M,
McLouth at 2.5M replaces Kotsay at 7.35M
Tim L.
June 19th, 2009
8:30 am
Typo on Kawakami’s salary should be 8.3M.
Different question – if you were hiring an owner would you hire Liberty Media? Have you really seen an increased budget?
Kotchman at 2.9M replaces Teixeira at 12.5M,
Kawakami at 8.3M replaces Glavine at 10M,
Vazquez at 11.5M replaces Smoltz at 14M,
Lowe at 15M replaces Hampton at 15M (wash),
O’Flaherty at 0.4M replaces Ohman at 1.6M,
McLouth at 2.5M replaces Kotsay at 7.35M
Mark Bradley
June 19th, 2009
9:20 am
This would not be my first choice of ownership, Tim. Or my 50th choice.
ND
June 19th, 2009
9:25 am
How many times can you continually be a good regular season team and not take the next step. The Braves don’t even sell out during playoff games. I’m from Boston and they just had their 500th sell out. Make a product that fans can get behind
Gerald
June 19th, 2009
10:11 am
Here’s the thing: a team should only fire its manager if it can get someone better. And in the case of the Braves, it wouldn’t be enough to get someone marginally better, in which any would-be added wins would likely be (more than) offset by the hit to team morale. Cox is solid, he’s certainly not a liability; any replacement (not named Torre or LaRussa) would be a gamble.
Agree with the final sentiment: maybe he wouldn’t be the first hire if you were starting over, but you can’t fire him.
We may need a new hitting coach, though. Maybe Chipper’s dad?
Poorbrave
June 19th, 2009
10:25 am
The Poll is running 60% fire Cox and 40% keep.
The Braves don’t sell out during play-off games,etc.. The Braves under Bobby are not a very exciting team, very predictable.
Why pay to see players like Cox keeps playing., Frenchy, KJ, GA, Bennett do you need more.
FlashGordon
June 19th, 2009
11:16 am
Bobby Cox is a great manager. His problem is that he has NOT communicated with upper management enough (President John Shuerholtz) and the powers that be with respect to bringing in enough hitting pitching and enough good players to help Cox win. In my blog yesterday, I pointed out that during the offseason there were three future hall of famers available that the Braves could have signed: Gary Sheffield, Barry Bonds and Sammy Sosa. All three guys still wanted to play baseball and all are great hitters and can be productive. Unfortunately, the Braves didnt invite any of them to camp. Barry and Sammy both are being blackballed and cant find a job anywhere. Gary Sheffield signed with the Mets and IS NOW HITTING .300. (NO SURPRISE THERE). Steroids or no steroids, Gary is a former brave and is also a Lifetime .295 hitter and certainly could have helped the Braves in the middle of the lineup. Although Shef got cut 1 home run away from 500 (he was at 499 home runs when he was cut by Detroit) one of the biggest insults I have ever seen. So what does Gary do when he is signed by the Mets: just hit .300 is all he did, being productive as he always is and the Braves could have had his bat in the lineup for certainly the major league mininum salary. There is still time to sign Sammy Sosas and Barry Bonds. Just because all the other major league clubs are blackballing them doesnt mean the Braves have to do that. What would you rather do, bring in Sammy and Barry and help you win a world series, or not bring those guys in and watch Bobby Cox get fired. Either way it makes sense to upgrade the ballclub and make it better. In addition, the Braves are fools for releasing Glavine. Glavine would almost certainly make the Braves a stronger team. Plus, if Glavine had continued with the Braves, he most certainly would have won the Cy Young award in the National League this year. The Braves continue to make blunders in the front office and then wonder why they keep putting a pathetic product on the field.
Bill
June 19th, 2009
3:34 pm
Any other team on any level, and Booby would have been LONG gone.
Bill
June 19th, 2009
3:38 pm
Well, journalists aren’t exactly rocket scientists, are they. Nor are they very accurate either. Next time a story about your field of expertise appears, pay attention to how the most basic facts are wrong. Extrapolate that to every story, and it becomes obvious, when you figure in the Liberal Bias, why newspapers are dying a deserved death.
SC Brave
June 19th, 2009
8:59 pm
Great column, I have always felt Cox was 1; a manager for veteran guys, and 2; one who thought there was no need for emotion on the field. If you were a professional player you didn’t need it. That attitude served them well in the regular season but when they played good teams who were pumped up in the playoffs they were sent home. Not because the other team was better but Atlanta/Cox didn’t understand the urgency required for the playoffs. The only year they won the World Series was because one player (Justice) stirred everything up. What happened to him, they sent him packing. Bobby has almost always shown no ability to bring a player up from the minors and teach him the difference in the majors. The ones who have made it were can’t miss projects, not just above average. Look at what happened with Mark DeRosa. Glavine didn’t care about Atlanta when he left (even though he knew about Liberty Media’s attitude) but when the tables are turned they he wants to cry. How long did Smoltz and Glavine think Atlanta show hold onto them while they try to rehab their old bodies. Who knows even now if either one can pitch? Some of your readers say let Bobby go on his terms. Well, how long is that. With the stretch of games they are in now they could come our with only 5 or 6 wins and 15 to 20 losses. What if they have a 15 game losing streak. Blame Wren if you want but he did the right(and hard) thing getting rid of Glavine and Smoltz. Now its time for Bobby to go. If he wants to save face, great , give him a believable out and bring in a new core )Mgr, Pitching, hitting) staff. Someone who knows how to deal with young players and low salaries. That person is out there if you make the right choice. But you are also right, not from the Braves current group. We need a fresh start.
steve
June 20th, 2009
3:47 pm
A players manager is the worst thing to have for a bad team with no superstar. They seem to play with no fear of acountability. And I have been saying for years that is how he manage. He should have been fired after 1996. 5 is the number of rings the braves should have, at the least. I root for the front of the jersey not the name on the back.
poll du jour « Rowland's Office
June 21st, 2009
9:35 pm
[...] du jour 06/21/2009 at 8:35 pm | In Bobby | Leave a Comment Mark Bradley thinks it’s time for a change in the Braves dugout, and I’m almost inclined to agree (it’s tough to come out and say [...]
The new Bobby Cox? He's managing the Red Sox | Mark Bradley
June 29th, 2009
10:22 am
[...] — sorry to be quoting my silly self here, but know no way around it — he’s the best manager I’ve ever seen and the best I’ll ever see. But now I’m thinking maybe only the first part [...]
J K
June 29th, 2009
5:47 pm
Flash, that Glavine comment is ridiculous. Also, Sosa is near useless, especially in the NL. I don’t know about Bonds though, he may be blackballed. Sheffield is making the Mets look smart, but GA was supposed to be our Sheffield ‘lite’.
This is sorta what I figured you would say MB, and I hafta agree with most of it. I still think Bobby taxes the bullpen too much since he doesn’t have sure-fire ‘Hall of Famers’ in the rotation anymore. See below for my prior prediction (sorta right).
J K
June 17th, 2009
4:07 pm
MB, I think you will write that Bobby needs to change his approach to certain players. That he may be a little TOO patient, but that in the end he can only work with the tools he is given. (Also, he taxes the bullpen too much. Those guys are coming off fairly recent injuries!)
Smoltz's Beard
July 2nd, 2009
7:15 pm
Bobby should not be questioned at all by anyone of us couch managers! He is a HALL OF FAME manager and what he has done for the Braves and Atlanta will always be greatly appreciated! He is a true warrior and competitor, I would follow him to battle anyday period!!!
zorba
July 2nd, 2009
7:16 pm
Mark, solid article – a bit overdue, but thoughtful, balanced, and a good historical perspective. I wrote you previously as to why Bobby is a “players manager” that guys like to play for = too soft on them! You essentially nailed it. Thanks for the article. This should be his last season.
David
July 2nd, 2009
7:25 pm
Being one who casts a very cynical eye on all the spoiled ‘everybody needs to hear my opinion so they can see how wrong theirs is’ Braves fans and sports writers who simply cannot fathom the thought of OUR team not being as good as they once were, I find this whole discussion distasteful and pointless. Bobby Cox is not the Braves’ ‘problem’. Heck, they don’t have any real ‘problems’ anyway. They are men who get to play baseball for a living. Whether they win or lose and whether they entertain me to the extent that I want them to, is really of no consequence…it still beats the heck out of what I do for a living. So take it from somebody who has been a Braves fan thru a WHOLE lot worse than just three or four years out of the playoffs, do something better with your time than bash a man who is better at his job at the end of his career than most of us will ever be at ours.
Greg
July 2nd, 2009
7:47 pm
Managing anywhere else Bobby Cox would have been fired 10 years ago. He is the worst on field manager in baseball.
CJDawg
July 2nd, 2009
7:59 pm
I tell you this. The Braves do NOT need a new manager, but the AJC needs to replace you. You are the cockiest, useless excuse of a coward I have ever met. Taking potshots at Glavine and Smoltz….now Bobby. Why don’t YOU retire so we can have some decent opinions around here? I can name a LOT of columnists I would rather read than your moronic idiocies. Smoltz shoulda beat your ass….
DHD
July 2nd, 2009
9:48 pm
Is this the best article you can come up with? What in the world is wrong with the AJC writers these days? Maybe you guys can’t cut your jobs.
DMac
July 3rd, 2009
11:14 am
Bottom line is that Cox is old. He will be allowed to continue until he decides to step down. And God help us, but I think Terry Pendleton is a lock to replace him.
fxmulder
July 11th, 2009
6:17 pm
bobby is a good manager-for the 60’s and early 70’s. on top of that, the management for the braves have become the cubs of the 60’s(lou brock comes to mind). Go bobby go, and bring a jim tracey type in.