The Hot Button: Do the Braves need a new manager?
He’s the best manager I’ve ever seen. He’s the best manager I’ll ever see. That said …
I’m not sure Bobby Cox is the best manager for what the Braves have become.
They’ve gone from being great over 15 seasons to being not very good the past 3 1/2. There’s still a aura of assurance around Turner Field, a feeling that, “Oh, we’re the Braves and we’ll figure out something,” but the Braves haven’t figured out much since Brian McCann and Jeff Francoeur were rookies. No, the manager hasn’t stopped managing, but this sort of team needs more managing than Cox likes to do.
He’s a player’s guy, now and forever. He loves his players and treats them like men. The Braves of the ’90s were indeed men, even those who arrived as rookies. They were serious about the game and serious about winning for this manager. I’m not sure what some of these Braves take seriously.
Who can reach Yunel Escobar? Who can instruct Jeff Francoeur in the art of plate management? Who can break the news that Kelly Johnson has 10 days more to prove he belongs in the bigs? Maybe another manager. It’s not this manager’s style.
And his style, we should never forget, worked in a way no other manager’s — not John McGraw’s, not Walter Alston’s, not Sparky Anderson’s — ever has. Fifteen times running Cox brought a team north from spring training and over 15 full seasons he finished first every time. (This counts his 1985 Toronto Blue Jays but not the 1990 Braves, whom he inherited in June, or the 1994 Braves, who were shut down in August by the strike.) He’s a great manager by every measure, maybe the greatest ever.
Loading ...But not every great manager is great with every team, and the neo-Braves don’t respond to avuncular urgings. Maybe they’re not good enough to respond to anything, but as the Braves get younger it seems more likely they’ll see Cox not as a cinch Hall of Famer but as the guy who doesn’t rip them in print or make them work very hard. They’ll see him as a player’s manager, but they’ll neglect to play for him.
It has gotten too easy to be an Atlanta Brave. With few exceptions, these Braves enjoy the reflection of success without having achieved the success itself. They might respond even less favorably to a manager less gentle, but it’s not as if they’re responding to this one.
Via iPhone — yes, he has an iPhone — from Cincinnati, Cox was asked Thursday morning if he felt he was reaching his players. “What do you mean?” he said.
Do they listen to his message, or are they just not good enough for a message to matter? “No, they listen,” Cox said.
But nothing’s working. When you hold the Reds to four hits and get beat on a three-run homer by the Cincinnati pitcher, something’s not right.
OK, you’re asking: Would I fire Bobby Cox? Absolutely not. He’s one of three reasons — John Schuerholz and starting pitching are the other two — the Braves became the Braves. If he wants to keep trying to restore this team to eminence, I’d afford him that chance. He has earned the benefit of every doubt.
But phrase the question differently — if I were hiring someone to manage these Braves, would I hire Cox? — and my answer might be different. And I say that for his sake. I respect the man too much to see him lose with players who have little sense of what it once meant to be a Brave.
I like Bobby Cox. I don’t like what the Braves have become.
For further reading: The Braves aren’t in the market for a manager and mightn’t be anytime soon. But if they were, here are two men I’d consider.
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386 comments Add your comment
Mark Bradley
June 18th, 2009
5:16 pm
For all those people saying anybody could have won with those teams … well, only one guy did. And if you’ve ever been around a baseball team, you know nothing ever runs itself. There’s always a clubhouse to run, egos to juggle, a pitching staff to nurse. A bad manager might get lucky for a year, but not for 14 years in a row.
I know people on the outside hate hearing this, but ask anyone who works in baseball about Bobby Cox. The worst anyone will say is that he’s a Hall of Famer.
Bunster
June 18th, 2009
5:22 pm
I know Bobby’s players “feel the love”, but how about some tough love for awhile. Kick a few lockers and some butts and stop being afraid to hurt a few feelings. Believe me they will get over it and play a whole lot better.
Jborodawg
June 18th, 2009
5:27 pm
Ditto **AtlantaBytes**…”Baseball is not a game that judges the talent of the players and coaches in stretches of 3, 5 or even 7 games. They play 162 games ….the Braves (under Bobby) did this 14 years in a row means more…”
And how bout 2007? Perhaps one of his best managing years, even tho they didn’t go far.
Ditto **All I’m Saying**…”he’s one of the few reasons free-agent players even want to come to Atlanta…”
“Don”…You gotta be kidding. We’ve seen opposing pitchers have 100 pitches by the 5th and 6th innings on many occasions.
I’ll admit it’s maddening sometimes when he stays with players in slumps. As has been stated, sometimes he doesn’t have a replacement on hand. Sometimes he just stays with them too long. But, how does one get out of a slump without playing? That, and lately he doesn’t seem aggressive enough with base runners. Where are we ranked in stolen bases? Again, the Braves are very near the bottom in team BA; and probably base running too.
Another question: how many different teams have won the WS in the last 17 years? And how many have not?
Mark Bradley
June 18th, 2009
5:35 pm
World Series winners since 1991: Yankees 4, Red Sox 2, Blue Jays 2, Marlins 2, Braves 1, Cardinals 1, Phillies 1, White Sox 1, Angels 1, Diamondbacks 1, Twins 1.
Mark Bradley
June 18th, 2009
5:36 pm
To answer the question: Eleven different teams have won the Series over the past 17 completed seasons. Nineteen have not.
Robert
June 18th, 2009
5:49 pm
“For all those people saying anybody could have won with those teams … well, only one guy did. And if you’ve ever been around a baseball team, you know nothing ever runs itself. There’s always a clubhouse to run, egos to juggle, a pitching staff to nurse. A bad manager might get lucky for a year, but not for 14 years in a row.
I know people on the outside hate hearing this, but ask anyone who works in baseball about Bobby Cox. The worst anyone will say is that he’s a Hall of Famer.”
It’s a big old boys club – and besides,everyone else in baseball? they WANT us to keep Cox
and Bradley – in 1491 all the “experts” knew the earth was flat – were THEY right?
I am telling youb – dont go by what people with an agenda or people in the boys club say – go by what your eyes and brain tells you
And if your brain tells you Cox is a great manager, then please replace it with a new one
Robert
June 18th, 2009
5:50 pm
“For all those people saying anybody could have won with those teams … well, only one guy did”
Bradley – come on – Cox is the best because he is the only one who got the chance to manage the Maddux-Glavine-Smoltz teams? Come on
jimmy a
June 18th, 2009
5:57 pm
FIRE WREN get some major league players that are in shape enuff to playand i`ll manage just FIRE WREN
WilliamG
June 18th, 2009
5:58 pm
There’s no intent to be mean here but I’m struck by those who think Cox is a bad manager and that his record is unsatisfactory. I guess you have never followed other teams, looked at how they’ve done over a period of years. My lord a mercy, Cox compares favorably – based on his record over the years – with any manager in baseball. I realize that – by saying this – many of you still won’t understand. But honest, spend a little time looking at how other teams – any other team, pick one – do over long periods of time with a manager. Have the Braves fallen into a bad spell – heck yes, you already knew that – but take a look at other teams and see how many have avoided that. Cox has been a magician and – at times – has done his best work when the team has had a bad year. He’s taken injury-ridden lineups at times and produced decent teams. I understand that you won’t believe me, and I sort of doubt that you’ll be able to pick up the telephone and talk to real baseball people. But – believe me or not – if you could talk to other managers, other players, they would make fun of you if you claimed that Cox is a bad manager.
Roja
June 18th, 2009
6:01 pm
Brewers, Cubs and Reds have lower batting averages than the Braves but better records. On the other hand, only the Mets and Dodgers have a HIGHER batting average than the Astros and Pirates and both the Stros and Pirates have worse W-L records than the Bravos. Batting Average means nothing when you can’t get a runner home.
And the Brewers are dead last in stolen bases so little ball isn’t necessarily the answer either.
Alan
June 18th, 2009
6:06 pm
Bobby Cox had his own bonehead play last night when with no outs, men on first and second, count 3-2 to slow McCann and he DOES NOT send the runners and McCann hits into a DP. Pitiful managing as he also does by always bringing in the struggling reliever in the tight games just so they can lose another one and BOOST their confidence! The Braves need a boss not a big brother best friend. I predicated a bad season for the Braves before the season started due to the way Smoltz was treated and now Glavine. The Braves are reaping what they have sown.
oldbrave
June 18th, 2009
6:07 pm
People talk about cox smotz galvine being treated with no class, need to remember, this is a business and needs to be run like one and not like a retirement home for the long loved, thats what is wrong with the braves now to many changes that should have been made in a rational business way were not and thats why will are losing now
oldbrave
June 18th, 2009
6:09 pm
excuse my typing old guy and dont have my glasses on lol
chad
June 18th, 2009
6:09 pm
The only world series you can blame Cox for losing is one againt Minnesota when Pucket hit the homer off Leibrandt. Right now the Braves need bats that is all. The good old days when Uncle Ted ran the team unfortunately are over. Get one more or two more bats in the line up and all will change. Are players not executing Cox’s fault. No. Not being able to drive in runs when the opprotunity arises Cox’s fault. Again no. Name a better person for the job right now that the Braves could get?
Canadaian braves fan
June 18th, 2009
6:13 pm
hey folks, I stared a blog of the braves for a school project, would you guys check it out and comment, just for fun
http://www.newblogofbraves.blogspot.com
thanks all
JMac12203
June 18th, 2009
6:13 pm
I say again; BOBBY HAS GOT TO GO!!! The Braves time has come and has been gone for years. If you do not believe me, answer this question – When did the Atlanta Braves last WIN a division series?? Not make the playoffs, but actually WIN the NLDS??? I may be off by a year or so, but try LAST CENTURY. The Braves are one of the most undisclipined teams in baseball. They are poor in the fundamentals like bunting, sacrificing, manufacturing runs, hitting cut-off men, relay throws, etc. Their best player is 37 and spends almost as much time sitting out injured than playing. How do you think he won the ‘08 batting title? He backed into it by riding the pines while Albert played with numbness in his hands that needed surgery. The catcher is a good one, however he hurts his pitchers by not being able to throw out runners trying to steal. Some players have gone to other teams batting coaches for help. Why? Bottom line is that the Braves are a BAD team that has no leadership on or off the field, and they are in bad need of a transfusion. That transfusion needs to start with the manager, good, but very overrated. He needs to go, followed by the coaches, and then a new GM, who can maybe bring some legit talent to the Braves, instead of a # 3 career starter getting severely overpaid, who is not even the best starter on the team. Face it people, this is 2009, NOT 1995, and the time of the Braves has long since become a faded memory. Quit hanging on to 1995 like Dawg fans hang on to 1980 and Run Hershel Run.
The Braves need a new direction, like they needed in 1991. The sooner they get it, the better it will be.
oldbrave
June 18th, 2009
6:22 pm
cox just like everyone, me included, loose their edge after a certain age, the game has pasted him by just like when Bud Wilkerson tried to come back and coach footbal or Joe Gibbs Don zimmer in Baseball sometimes you have to admit it hes just too damn old
oldbrave
June 18th, 2009
6:24 pm
I used to be a hellof baseball player but now I watch it on tv mostly same thing cox needs to do watch as a fan
Jfreak
June 18th, 2009
6:52 pm
Cox is like the grandfather you love to hug and listen to his war stories but deep in your heart you really don’t think he really udnerstands what you are going through in your generation. I love him and respect him but do you trust him to be right about what your are going through? I too would let Cox manage as long as he wants because he is one of the good guys, but to think he can reach some of these players seems unreasonalbe to me. As far as who would manage the Brave if Cox leaves, Ned Yost seem to have gotten raw deal and he a braves guy?
Livin In AL
June 18th, 2009
7:17 pm
The old Braves had the winner’s swagger.Todays Braves just havea pitiful stagger. 75% of the players have no concept of being a real winner.
Joe
June 18th, 2009
7:30 pm
How dare you Mark B to even say that. You should find another city. Atl fans are completely bandwagon fans and the media Sucks!!!
GO BRAVES AND GO BOBBY COX FOREVER
JEB
June 18th, 2009
7:35 pm
The following are the best mangers in baseball:
Joe Torre (but.. he still couldn’t always win – did not ever make it to the World Series with St. Louis – nor did he always make it with NY – even with the money and the players)
Jim Leyland: (but.. he still did not do anything with Pittsburg – after the players were gone, Florida – after the players were gone – Colorado = nothing, and only got into one World Series with Detroit and was swept)
Tony LaRussa: (As great as he is – does he always get the team to the World Series???)
My point – you can be the best manager in baseball (and Bobby Cox is one of them) BUT… IF you do not have the players to win with, you can’t win!
You can take lemons and make lemonade, but you can not take lemons and make orange juice (unless your Jesus!) no matter how great a manager you are.
There are those who say “Anyone could have won with 3 Cy Youngs!” They are making the point exactly, you need the players. Right now we do not have them – I don’t know that Frenchy or Johnson will ever turn around – I hope that they can, just don’t know that they can.
There isn’t anyone that can win with some of these guys we have right now!
fordcobra
June 18th, 2009
7:44 pm
Nothing wrong with a good old fashioned butt kicking! Play and stay!
Thanks Bobby for the memories, but it’s time to move to the front office or the porch swing.
Fordcobra
Baracked the vote!
June 18th, 2009
7:56 pm
World Series losers since 91 – Braves 4, how many teans have come close to that record? and i grew sick of hearing how the postseason is a crapshoot after 96.how many times have the “experts” picked the braves to advance in the playoffs and get knocked out of the first round? how many managers 67 or older have won a world series? the only series the braves won was in a shortened season… he is not a bad manager, it is just time for a replacement. heck, i think he should be GM now..
fieldofdreams
June 18th, 2009
8:23 pm
Bobby was great during the regular season but his teams folded in the playoffs, year after painful year. Teams take on their manager’s personality; Bobby’s as responsible for the streak as he is for all the gut-wrenching post-season failure. And let’s not forget the ALCS he blew after being up 3-1 while he was managing Toronto. That said, no matter what you think of him, the devil you know is often times better than the one you don’t.
hal
June 18th, 2009
9:35 pm
manager for a day idea is solid i know how not to get an incompetent fool restrict entrys to non bloggers lol
Slicric
June 18th, 2009
9:40 pm
Bobby should have been gone long ago. He has cost us at least 1 or maybe 2 more world series. Most likley at least 2 more world series apperances. I was pretty easy to coach the talent we had in the 90’s in the regular season, but when it came to the playoffs and the talent was more even, coaching cost us wins, Bobby gets outcoached all the time. Has the man ever heard of playing a hunch or going against what the book on baseball says. He pretty much made an average player out of Ryan Klesko because he never gave him a chance to hit against a left handed pitcher. The day Bobby and his washed up coaching staff go the braves will be instantly better. Oh and by the way I’m sure Tommy G. would have 2 wins by now. NOT! good job Wren you made the right move. The next right move would be giving Bobby his walking papers.
LSU
June 18th, 2009
9:45 pm
MB,
If you like stats, how about these?
Braves record for the last 3 seasons, 235 wins
251 losses
Finished no better than 3rd place in those 3 seasons
This season, 31 wins—34 losses
Outlook for next season..What young talent the Braves have, are probably 2 years away, and that’s not guaranteed. So I’d say next seasons outlook, looks pretty dismal.
Maybe the Braves fans just might be getting a little tired of reminiscing about the good ‘ole days and want to see better baseball…Should we give Bobby Cox a vote of confidence for 3 1/2 seasons of blah baseball? It’s quite a dilemma for the fans, the Braves front office & ownership, and Bobby Cox because Bobby does indeed deserve to retire on his own terms.
Looks like us Braves fan will be suffering for a good bit longer.
CLIFF
June 18th, 2009
9:51 pm
Yes Bobby Cox needs to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JP Swain
June 18th, 2009
9:54 pm
I like Bobby, I love what he’s done for my team and my city over the last 20+ years, but eventually everyone becomes stale, every situation runs its course, and at long last I think Bobby has out stayed his effectiveness.
R. Brave
June 18th, 2009
9:55 pm
Bobby’s can’t hit for these guys !! We need to get rid of Pendleton. Everyone knows it but they will not get rid of him. Even Andrew said today how great the hitting coach in Texas is. Let get rid of T.P. !!
Tony
June 18th, 2009
9:59 pm
Cox has won less than 35% of his 1 run games during his career as a manager. So blame the team if you want! The proof is in the stats!
John
June 18th, 2009
10:00 pm
Some of this stuff isn’t rocket science.
Right now anyway, Diaz and Prado are better than Frenchy/Anderson and KJ. Frenchy and Anderson should be platooning and Diaz should be playing every day, until they prove they can be more productive. Also at worst, KJ and Prado should platoon.
This team really isn’t far from being a winner. Oh yeah, stop using the bullpen so much, especially Bennett and Moylan, the more you pitch those guys the greater chances of losing games.
Robert
June 18th, 2009
10:00 pm
“The only world series you can blame Cox for losing is one againt Minnesota when Pucket hit the homer off Leibrand”
1991 “He’s bringing in Liebrandt to face Puckett.” I think I vomited when I heard that
1996 – What was Wohlers doing in there in the 8th in game 4?
1999 – Game 1 Maddux gets trotted out there to start the 8th to face Scott Brosius who was already 2 for 2 off him. Maddux was clearly done after 7. My big screen tv almost took a beer bottle thru it when that happened. Repeated the mistake in Game 3
that’s just three WS he BLATANTLY and single-handedly lost. Then there’s the times he blew it before the WS began. And we’re not talking games where the Braves lost because Cox didnt teach or require solid fundamentals – these are just games where one incredibly stupid managerial call turned the Series momentum irreversibly to the other team
Liberty Braves
June 18th, 2009
10:03 pm
Don’t worry so much about replacing Cox, but replacing the owners!
Robert
June 18th, 2009
10:04 pm
“Cox has won less than 35% of his 1 run games during his career as a manager. So blame the team if you want! The proof is in the stats!”
Whoever posted that, I want the reference! Cuz that right there is an INDICTMENT of Cox as a manager. With equal talent he should be at 50% if he’s just average and everything is crapshoot.
TPM
June 18th, 2009
10:10 pm
Hometown Discount Glavine told fox 5 tonight that he will not pitch this year. I guess his phone was not ringing from the other 29 teams.
ceph
June 18th, 2009
10:21 pm
All I see Cox doing is sitting around the dugout picking his nose. Everytime the cameras focus on him he is just sitting there digging for gold. The man has truly lost it!!!!!!
No More Bobby
June 18th, 2009
10:54 pm
As much as I dislike Bobby Cox, I really don’t want to see it get sad ugly. Losing is one thing but it would suck to see him look like an idiot to the point where fans forget all the good he did in the 90’s.
With that said, he is being selfish by not retiring and dragging this out. He’s a smart guy and has to realize it isnt there anymore but keeps hanging around.
Walk away Bobby. It’s time.
Fade
June 18th, 2009
10:56 pm
I wouldn’t terminate Bobby Cox now, or in the future. He has earned the right to turn off the lights when he’s done, and he as stated, in part gave the organization any claim to greatness. Maybe he doesn’t have what this team needs, but maybe he will.
red goat
June 18th, 2009
11:00 pm
Hell yes, the Braves need a new manager. They’ve needed a new manager since 1996. The team hasn’t played with any sense of urgency or passion in years. It’s easy to win when you have a pitching staff filled with future hall of famers and position players who can actually hit. Shuerholtz deserves the credit for that. Not Cox. All he did was fart away a bunch of first place finishes by treating the post season like any other day at the park. Cox seems to have no connection to today’s players and has failed to develop our young talent. On top of that, his blinding loyalty to a handful of players and coaches is retarding the team’s progress.
Players are a reflection of their manager. What hope do we have?
varodrunner
June 18th, 2009
11:01 pm
Has anyone noticed that the Tigers have benched Magglio indefinately for his average. That’s managing your team. Managing is doing …not sitting back and waiting for something to change – That’s senility or insanity.
P Rose
June 18th, 2009
11:30 pm
It’s Too Late
Lingerin’ in the clubhouse just to pass the time
There’s something wrong here, there can be no denying
Pennant race is fading, the players have just stopped trying
And it’s too late, Bobby, now it’s too late
Though we really did try to make it
Something inside has died and I can’t hide
And I just can’t fake it
It used to be so easy back in ninety-two
Glavine Smoltz and Avery and you knew just what to do
But now those days are over and changes are overdue
And it’s too late, Bobby, now it’s too late
Time has passed you by, don’t mistake it
Steppin’ aside, your pride can hurt inside
But I know you can take it
Winning every season like we used to do
Is what everybody wants I know you feel it to
Still, I’m glad for what we had and I want to thank you
But it’s too late, Bobby, now it’s too late
Though we really did try to make it
I can’t deny it’s time to say good-bye
But I sure do hate it
Robroy1101
June 18th, 2009
11:33 pm
Great article MB! I love Bobby and everything he and the Braves have represented. I, like many, have questioned his decisions numerous times in-game. I wonder why he does what he does. I am also of the opinion that until you do the job and understand the situation, then you have no right to judge. Unfortunately, in the world of access we have today people judge from afar and make attacks on people’s integrity that aren’t justifed simply because they are limited on the information recieved. Not that they are right or wrong, it’s just that I find it hard to believe some of the people on this board continually say assinying things that they have no clue about. I’m pretty damn sure that Bobby has a pretty good reason in his mind for running Frenchy out there day after day. I simply don’t understand what that reasoning is and can’t even begin to comprehend. but I’d bet alot of money it would be explained by him very rationally. And it wouldn’t be some stupid 1 paragraph post on a blog for AJC, it would make sense. It would be interesting to have an unofficial discussion with him on the topic. Having said that, 2 years ago it would have broken my heart to see Bobby go, I don’t think I’d feel the same at the end of this year. I would cherish the memories and talk about him as the greatest manager “I” have ever seen………..
Mark Bradley
June 18th, 2009
11:33 pm
Maybe my favorite, P Rose. So far. (Not to be confused with, “So Far Away.”) Thanks again.
Scott S.
June 18th, 2009
11:44 pm
OK this has been bad but, still only 5.5 out of first. Santana for the Mets not looking like an ace and Phillies lost Lidge and Ibanez. Only worry for anyone in the East is Florida because if they put it together they have enough pitching and offense to win this mess of a division but I still like the Braves chances! Go Braves, Go Hanson!!!
Bruce
June 19th, 2009
12:00 am
NO! Bobby Cox is an a GREAT Manager. More than that – he is a GREAT LEADER. There is not a single manager alive today that a player will run through a brick wall for other than Bobby Cox. He hurts himself in the public eye because he is a private team manager and not public manager trying to get that 20 second ESPN quick line. He doesn’t need the limelight to validate him as a great leader and manager. I have never seen any manager garner more respect from players than Bobby Cox. He get’s the most out of his players – more than they never realized they had. How many careers has he resurrected or vaulted? . He never says a negative word in public. In his quiet way, he redefines positive attitude. After 30+ years I know he has witnessed train wrecks of players on all levels. He could easily throw them under the bus. I am sure he has been tempted to but he never does.
He has always held his tongue and made a choice to encourage people. His players respond to his style regardless of talent level.
The best author other than Jesus that I have ever read on Leadership is John Maxwell. He happens to live in Atlanta. John Maxwell should do a book on Bobby Cox’s low profile leadership style. He is unparalleled in professional sports.
Thanks for giving me the time,
Bruce Frcek
Boca Raton, FL
mattman
June 19th, 2009
12:47 am
This is a very senstive subject!! but Bobby has already hinted toward retirement.So this is what i propose let him finish his contract and explain to him the changes neccesary for this club to succeed.We need bobby just not on the field but in scouting, advising something close to J.S. in the front office, they are truly two great minds,that work great together!I dont know who the Braves would target to take the helm over but what do you think about these suggestions: Terry P.,Bruce Bochy or Tony Gwynn as far as a hitting coach i here that guy in Texas is purdy good! and the pitching coach i know Roger has done decent i just dont like his approach its to laid back.If i was the Braves management i would do what i had to to pry Mr.Duncan away from Cardinals the rest of the staff i would keep intact yes it would be expensive but can you really put a price tag on good coaching in the era?This is what this team needs one good swift kick in the butt!
Liberty Braves
June 19th, 2009
12:51 am
I think that if the Braves had good ownership that cared about contending, then Cox would have the good players to work with.
Don’t get me wrong, we do have some good guys on this team; Lowe, Jurrgens, Vazquez, Hanson, McLouth. But these others? They’re just pathetic. The reason the Braves have this limited payroll is because Liberty Media is a bunch of tight wads!
The Braves need new ownership before it’s too late and there is no one at Turner Field during the games.
Come on, Ted, come on, Arthur, come on, ambitious business people. Buy this team from the Liberty Losers.
We Need New Ownership, NOW!!!
Liberty Braves
June 19th, 2009
12:53 am
Keep Cox, dump Liberty Media, and oh, get rid of Wren!