Face Off: Say goodbye to Marvin, hello to Caron Butler
Read Jeff Schultz’s view: Hawks need to get the point — and it’s Rafer Alston
Marvin Williams is the least essential Hawks starter. He scores points and takes rebounds but seems to leave no imprint on games, and one of the reasons Joe Johnson gets the ball with three seconds on the shot clock — or, worse, Josh Smith gets it 25 feet from the hoop — is that Marvin, four years a pro, still won’t assert himself.
I want to see Marvin not assert himself elsewhere next season. I want the Hawks to re-sign him — he’s a restricted free agent — and ship him and Acie Law to Washington for Caron Butler and Javaris Crittenton. The Wizards are looking to cut salary, so that part would work for them, and they’re also looking to get younger. Williams turns 23 on Friday; Butler is 29. (See ajc.com photo gallery.)
Butler is a small forward with deep range and — key point — a ton of self-assurance. He wants the ball when the clock’s ticking low. He averaged 20.8 points, 6.2 rebounds and 4.3 assists last season to Marvin’s 13.9, 6.3 and 1.3.
My biggest complaint has been that too much of the Hawks’ offense begins and ends with Johnson. (”Iso-Joe,” as clever bloggers have dubbed it.) Butler would lighten that load by making plays of his own — Marvin, as we know, makes few plays — and would provide cover should Mike Bibby leave as a free agent. A team could make do with Flip Murray as its starting point guard if he has Johnson and Butler at 2 and 3.
This trade need not be a loss for the Wizards. In a city where he isn’t known mostly for not being Chris Paul, Williams still could develop into something more than a team’s fifth-best starter. (Not so long ago, he was considered the most gifted player of his draft class.) But it hasn’t panned out for him as a Hawk and, with Johnson and Smith and Al Horford ahead of him now, it won’t ever.
Butler would upgrade the Hawks at one of the two positions that could stand upgrading. The other is point guard, and that’s more problematic. Bibby, who’s an unrestricted free agent, might not want to play for half what he made last season and could well leave. (Law’s time here seems done.) Flip, whom the Hawks will surely re-sign, is best deployed as a scoring sixth man, not an orchestrator. That’s where the draft comes in.
There’s not a Paul or a Deron Williams to be had, but there are some promising guards who figure to be available at No. 19. Eric Maynor of VCU could be there. Patty Mills of St. Mary’s could be. And Ty Lawson of North Carolina, who seemed slotted to go in the lottery, has been dropping in the mock drafts. He could be there, too.
The Hawks are getting close to something good. They don’t need to be taking the long view now. Caron Butler will make $21 million over the next two seasons. That’s a reasonable price for the guy who could bring the Hawks that much closer to Orlando and Cleveland and Boston.
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333 comments Add your comment
truth-serum
June 19th, 2009
6:36 pm
Sautee
June 19th, 2009
6:21 pm
What’s keeping you from acknowledging that?
Im waiting for your understanding of what the center positon entails to come to fruition.
jdewayneatl
June 19th, 2009
6:17 pm
I think id take Staudamire because of the scoring threat he brings to the table. Can you post the offensive numbers?
truth-serum
June 19th, 2009
6:40 pm
Jay
June 19th, 2009
5:40 pm
There’s no doubt that Horford is thickly-built, as is Pachulia, which is probably why the Hawks’ management and coaches think Center is his best position.
Horford is underweight and frail for a center. He got the job because ZaZa top this turnover Pachulia turn into Koncak. The orginal intent was to have Horford as a powerforward and ZaZa the starting center.
Lets be honest.
jdewayneatl
June 19th, 2009
7:00 pm
truth-serum,
Thanks for finally answering with a direct answer. I think everyone who has tried to talk some sense into your thick skull can appreciate that. But of course Staudamire’s offensive numbers are better, no one can dispute that. But the real test of a center comes on the defensive end. Who guards the other team’s center. And I’m saying this, quote it, put it up in lights, Horford is the BETTER DEFENDER.
But to answer my own question, it really wouldn’t matter. Same height and practically same weight.
And throughout this blog you have continually contradicted yourself and flip flopped more than the candidates in the 2008 Presidenial race. How could you say “There’s no doubt that Horford is thickly-built” and in the next few lines say “Horford is underweight and frail for a center.” And my point of the Amare situation was to show the similarities between Horford and another dominant big man that doesn’t qualify as a “legitimate center.”
And the original intent was to not give Zaza’s starting job to a rookie right away. It was gonna happen eventually but Zaza’s injury at the beginning of the 07-08 season allowed it to happen a little faster.
AB
June 19th, 2009
7:07 pm
I know I said Horford WAS a C, I made a mistake, dammit. But how can people say Horford’s a C, when he’s 6′10, 245 lbs. Let’s name some under-sized C…
Emeka Okafor (with no doubt isn’t a C)
Marcus Camby (he’s under-sized in weight)
Al Jefferson & Kendrick Perkins (thick, but both lack height, only 6′10)
Joakim Noah (Al’s former teammate at Flordia, lacks bulk)
Marcin Gotat & “Birdman” Chris Andersen (both lack thickness, Birdman lacks height)
Mr. Amazing
June 19th, 2009
7:09 pm
Keep marvin and bibby trade josh smith for caron bulter and they will be one of the teams that everyone will try to beat
Mr. Amazing
June 19th, 2009
7:12 pm
They should also trade ZaZa for chris Anderson and get another Center from the free agency
jdewayneatl
June 19th, 2009
7:13 pm
Truth serum,
How can you vouch for Aaron Gray, a CENTER who averaged 3.5 ppg and 3.9 ppg in the regular season and 0.0 ppg and 0.5 ppg in the playoffs but you can’t get over prooving that Al Horford’s numbers show that he’s not a true center. True Gray is a rookie but Al posted avgs of 10.1 ppg and 9.7 rpg in the regular season and 12.6 ppg and 10.4 rpg in the playoffs as a rookie. He averaged a double double in the playoffs against the eventual NBA Champions. Not to mention HE WAS HEALTHY.
Come on man, you don’t have a valid argument. You’re trying to be right but you are wrong buddy. Horford is only coming into his 3rd year in the league. He’s 22. Be real dude.
You never answered this one.
AB
June 19th, 2009
7:18 pm
One thing the Hawks need to get straight is the lineup. Is Horford a C or a PF? And, is Josh Smith a PF or a SF? Just because Horford and Josh are doing well at their current positions doesn’t mean they naturally fit those positions.
AB
June 19th, 2009
7:22 pm
Mr. Amazing,
I doubt the Nuggets pay “Birdman” $4-$8 million so that they can get an over-payed C in return. Be realistic, man!
jdewayneatl
June 19th, 2009
7:23 pm
Truth serum,
How can you vouch for Aaron Gray, a CENTER who averaged 3.5 ppg and 3.9 ppg in the regular season and 0.0 ppg and 0.5 ppg in the playoffs but you can’t get over prooving that Al Horford’s numbers show that he’s not a true center. True Gray is a rookie but Al posted avgs of 10.1 ppg and 9.7 rpg in the regular season and 12.6 ppg and 10.4 rpg in the playoffs as a rookie. He averaged a double double in the playoffs against the eventual NBA Champions. Not to mention HE WAS HEALTHY.
Come on man, you don’t have a valid argument. You’re trying to be right but you are wrong buddy. Horford is only coming into his 3rd year in the league. He’s 22. Be real dude.
You never answered this one.
Also here are the numbers comparatively for Horford and Staudamire:
Al Horford Amare Staudamire
PPG 11.5 PPG 21.4
RPG 9.3 RPG 8.1
APG 2.4 APG 2.0
SPG 0.8 SPG 0.9
BPG 1.4 BPG 1.1
FG% 0.525 FG% 0.539
FT% 0.727 FT% 0.835
3P% 0.000 3P% 0.429
MPG 33.5 MPG 36.8
Sautee
June 19th, 2009
7:57 pm
Truth serum,
What’s keeping you from acknowledging that?
“Im waiting for your understanding of what the center positon entails to come to fruition.”
Yeah, like THAT should matter about ANYTHING. In other words, you don’t WANT to admit my point. So you hide behind some BS position (or is it positon?) in order to run, once again from the truth.
How ironic considering your nomme de blog.
C’mon, truth serum, man up. I was man enough to apologize and you can’t even acknowledge THAT. Do you really lack that much self confidence?
truth-serum
June 19th, 2009
8:59 pm
jdewayneatl
June 19th, 2009
7:23 pm
jdewayneatl
June 19th, 2009
7:00 pm
Good evening.
I understand that you are confused. Let me see if I can help you.
You gave this statement concerning me.
And throughout this blog you have continually contradicted yourself and flip flopped more than the candidates in the 2008 Presidenial race. How could you say “There’s no doubt that Horford is thickly-built” and in the next few lines say “Horford is underweight and frail for a center.”
Here is the truth.
The first part of the statement was given as a copy and paste of Jay statement.
Jay
June 19th, 2009
5:40 pm
Then the is three blank lines seperating my comment from his. It was a contrast. His statement. Blank spacing… my corrections. Go back and read it again.
Secondly. You asked my opinion on the Horford/amare proposal and I choose Amare for his clearly dominant offensive tools. Their defensive numbers are almost identical according to what you posted. If you situation came to pass I would prefer Amare in the middle because he can shoot the three and take his man out side which would unclogg the middle for slashers and creators. I could run so many plays with him in a half court set. Or I could let him post. Id probably let Horford concentrate of grabing rebounds and setting picks since hes limited offensively and only marginal defensively. That for me is a no brainer, and my opinion. I dont know how you can say that Horford has an advantage defensively, the steals, blocks and rebounds are pretty much even. I prefer the dynamics of Amare’s offense and what that brings. Josh isnt going any where.
How about we keep Josh and trade Horford for Amare…you think thats do able?
How can I choose Grey as a up and coming center? Did you see what he did against the Hawks? did you watch his play? Im not the only one on this site to acknowledge Grey. There was not the pressing need to man the post with chicago as it was with atlanta so Grey hasnt got as much time to showcase his talents. Yes, my scouting report favors him. Its not that he has had major time to compile numbers. He is physical and mans the position. Youll see. He had no problems against Horford. where were you?
Did you ask Horford about how Lopez at his lunch twice?
Sautee
June 19th, 2009
7:57 pm
Im having a moment of silence for you. I hope you will get better.
Jay
June 19th, 2009
9:26 pm
truth serum
Coming in ninth in the Coach of the Year balloting does not mean that Woodson is one of the top ten coaches in the league. More often than not, it is an award for dramatically improving a team’s record from the previous season. As a head coach, Phil Jackson has won ten world championships but only one Coach of the Year award. Greg Popovich has won four NBA titles but only one Coach of the Year award. Moreover, if Coach of the Year award meant anything, why did Avery Johnson and Sam Mitchell get fired the year after winning the award and why has Jerry Sloan, who has been on the job for over 20 years, never won the award.
No, I’m talking about coaches who are universally recognized as excellent coaches. While Jackson, Sloan, Popovich, Brown and Nelson are the top five, a better question is: Does Woodson belong in the next five? Now, I’ll admit that Coach Woodson has presided over a team that was totally imploded and has improved the Hawks record every year of his tenure. I also think he has made some questionable decisions regarding play-calling during games and some terrible decisions regarding the usage of personnel.
Think back to when Zaza Pachulia first came to the Hawks as a free agent. He was signed to serve as a back-up to Jason Collier. I remember Pachulia’s first year as a Hawk and how everyone raved about his performance. His game was similar to that of most European big men: a finesse player with some offensive skills but not a banger. But Woodson wanted Pachulia to become more like Collier–who tragically died that season–a physical presence on the inside. Woodson tried everything he could to make that happen; including a reducing Pachulia’s in playing time. For the past 3 years, it seemed as if Pachulia could do nothing right-only a playoff confrontation with Kevin Garnett kept the fans from completely turning on him. Forcing Pachulia, a finesse player, to become a banger and play a style that was not conducive to what he does best caused his entire game to suffer–much like forcing Boris Diaw to become an aggressive PG, when Diaw was best suited to be a passing big man, caused Diaw’s game to suffer. Look what a change of scenery did for Diaw’s game and the same could hold true for Pachulia.
Horford was not drafted to be a power forward, he was drafted to be a forward/center. He was not drafted to replace Pachulia, he was drafted to complement Pachulia and Shelden Williams. Remember, Knight valued versatility and felt that three centers (Pachulia, Williams and Horford) with four interchangeable primary players (Josh Smith, Marvin Williams, Josh Childress and Joe Johnson), a veteran PG (Speedy Claxton) and some additional young talent on the bench (Royal Ivey and Salim Stoudamire) with the right coach could eventually compete for a title–just like the Chicago Bulls of the 90’s. Knight wanted to fire Woodson because Woodson proved to not be the coach to fulfill Knight’s vision.
Now, let’s talk about improvement. After five years on your job, didn’t you become better at it than you were when you first started? Didn’t you have a better understanding of the do’s and the don’ts? Didn’t you learn the tricks of the trade that made it easier for you to do what you do? That’s the type of improvement all players make. What I’m talking about is the type of coaching that Kareem Abdul-Jabbar did with Andrew Bynum or what Patrick Ewing is doing with Dwight Howard. Is anyone doing that with Horford or any of the other Hawk players? If not, why not? I’m not saying that Woodson should be held responsible if that is not occurring. I’m simply stating that it should occur.
Now, let’s be honest. The Hawks have chosen to sign Josh Smith, an athletic power forward who block shots, likes/wants to score and can rebound, to a long-term contract. Horford’s style, as a banger, rebounder and interior defender, complements Smith’s style. With only four seven players under contract, there’s no one legitimate Center available to the Hawks in a trade. This year’s draft doesn’t have a Center the Hawks can draft who can make an immediate impact on the team’s record next season. Free agency has some Centers available but none of them are the type of player around whom you can build a championship team.
Bottom line is this: since you feel Horford is not a Center, and the Hawks have signed Josh Smith, a PF, to a long-term deal, tell me what Center, the guy around whom you can build a championship team, should the Hawks make a serious effort to obtain? Who or what should they give up to obtain that Center? and what makes you think his team would be willing to trade that Center to the Hawks?
Sautee
June 19th, 2009
9:35 pm
Truth serum,
your words to me from your 11:55 a.m June 18 post:
“A good center(not a great one but a good one)would be capable of bringing 14-16 points per night with 12-14 rebounds and 2-3 block shots. Like say a ‘Mutumbo’.”
And now from your 5:05: “Being a center is not about rebounds. I’ve said that so much and you do receive it.”
Sounds like YOU might be the one with a cloudy idea of what a center is. Now is it “capable of 12-14 rebounds” or is it “not about rebounds”?
Sounds contradictory to me.
And again, can you tell me other than Dwight Howard, which center in the league can deliver 14-16 points AND 12-14 rebounds AND 2-3 blocked shots?
That was your threshold for a “good (but not great) center”. Other than Howard, name one current player that can do that. Just one. I’ll wait.
For a little while, anyway.
Ken Strickland
June 19th, 2009
9:53 pm
TRUTH SERUM-there’s no doubt you love to hear yourself talk and you’re having the time of your life playing statistical dodge ball. You’re also engaging in an effort of futility by trying to show that you’re more intellegent than anyone else on these blogs, and satisfying that much needed craving for attention. I’m not interested in playing your games.
You’re so busy disecting everyone elses comments, and trying to put yourself upon an intellectual peddlestal at everyone elses expense, you can’t even comprehend the contridictions, misstatements and irrational comments you’re making.
This is one of the condescending comments you made to me. “YOU APPARENTLY DON’T UNDERSTAND WHAT A CENTER IS BECAUSE YOU KEEP REFERRING TO NUMBERS WHOSE REVELANCE IS MINUET. THE CENTER POST IS NOT ABOUT REBOUNDING”. Then you put your foot in your mouth by rendering one of your numerous contradictory statements. You said: “MALONE WAS AN IMMEDIATE SUCCESS IN THE ABA AVERAGING OVER 18PTS AND “14 REBOUNDS” AS A ROOKIE”. Out of one side of your mouth, you render stats meaningless or minuet, when it comes to judging Horford’s ability to play center. Then, out of the other side of you mouth, you use those same meaningless or minuet stats, as you called them, especially rebounds, to show how great MMalone was as a rookie. IF YOU CAN’T SEE THE HYPROCRACY IN THOSE TWO CONTRADICTORY STATEMENTS, THEN YOU NEED HELP BECAUSE YOU’RE WAIST DEEP IN DENIAL.
REMEMBER, USING WORDS TO TRY AND PROMOTE A SENSE OF INTELLECTUAL SUPERIORITY IS MEANINGLESS IF YOU DON’T HAVE AN INTELLINGENT OR LOGICAL THOUGHT TO BACK THOSE WORDS UP, AND SO FAR YOU DON’T.
Wabe
June 19th, 2009
11:38 pm
Can’t stop laughing.
Good one Sautee. Waiting to hear a response to that one.
Chico27
June 20th, 2009
3:13 am
Leave it to the Hawks organization to trade a talent like Marvin so that he can go shine elsewhere… On a separate note, I swear if they let Josh go to Cleveland i will never watch a Hawks game again!!! Cleveland would be unstoppable with smooth over there and the Hawks would go back to a 15-20 wins per season team!!! Keep the core group and bring in a dominant big man!!!
jdewayneatl
June 20th, 2009
4:58 am
Truth-serum,
You’re exactly right and I’m definitely wrong. Your comment was a contrast between the two stand points. So just like Sautee, I stand corrected and I man up to say that I was wrong.
But I still stand by the fact that you have contradicted yourself several times in this blog. One minute you’re asking for numbers, the next its “Did you see what he did against the Hawks? did you watch his play?” Well I’ve seen Horford play and he has more skill and talent and will be the better player playing the Center position. In the NBA a single game doesn’t make you a good player. Its the collection of 82 games in a season (and the playoffs) that measures a players ability and worth. I’m sure that Horford would have similar and probably better stats if he was in Chicago. Chicago has been looking for a low post score and defender for a long time. Noah doesn’t have the offensive skill of Horford and has gone back and forth from starter to bench and back again. They shipped Ben off to Cleveland because he couldn’t score. Drew Gooden is in San Antonio. Eddie Curry was a bust. They didn’t wait for Tyson Chandler to develop, but then again maybe he just benefited from having one of the best point guards in the game throw him lobs all game.
And again the Amare question was basically to show that both players are very similar in size and that both players could play the position. Like I said, to me it wouldn’t matter. So I’m not arguing your point. Amare at the 5 and Horford at the 4 or vice versa would be a great frontline. But it doesn’t matter because its all hypothetical lol.
jdewayneatl
June 20th, 2009
5:13 am
Sautee,
I totally agree with Wabe. That is a good one and I wonder if Truth-serum will give another straight forward answer. And you know those stats sound like something only Dwight could do. Garnett has only done it once in his career (only because he isn’t a dominant shot blocker) and Duncan has done it over the course of his career. Wow! Truth-serum had to be dreaming when he thought up those numbers for just a “good” center.
truth-serum
June 20th, 2009
9:12 am
Ken Strickland
June 19th, 2009
9:53 pm
Good Morning.
Let’s see if I can help clear up your confusion.
The line you refer to concerning Moses Malone was an excerpt from a biography online whose author is unknown to me. If you Google Moses Malone I’m sure you will find it. The reason I selected that passage was the author’s reference to the fact that Moses, though having a set of natural skills (a rookie who could board and score), was left to play the forward position until his body matured to accept the punishment of the center position. His center playing weight was above 260. His forward weight was 235-240.
It’s unfortunate that you got stuck of the fact that the Man produced great numbers as a rookie.
Yes Ken, I am saying the center post is not all about rebounds but position control. I can use my power forwards to grab board’s ala Dennis Rodman. Darryl Dawkins was not used to grab board but to control the flow of traffic and intimidate in the paint. It’s an instinctive position that comes to some naturally. On occasions hed break a backboard or two just to let people know what kind of power was in the middle. “Don’t bring yours in here”. In addition to having the territorial instincts of a posts player it is certainly an advantage if you can bring an offensive cache with you and certainly Moses and Darryl Dawkins, Alonzo Mourning brought that to the table. This is significant because of what those tools bring to the movement on the floor. A good center would allow JJ, Marv and Josh to take their games off the chain. I’d have to write a book to tell you all the options and flow that would develop as a result of a territorial minded and offensively equipped center. The least of the tools necessary (not that it’s not good to have) is rebounding. If a center boxes his man or protects certain real estate let someone else pick up the garbage. If he’s altering the shots, forcing opponents out and causing misses, the least you can do is pick up the rebound for him.
jdewayneatl
June 20th, 2009
4:58 am
I agree a single game does not spell a career. I do think that head to head match ups are revealing. The Hawks had no answer for Lopez and he manned the paint against Horford, every time we played them, why do you think New Jersey a team that did not make the playoffs beat us 2 out of 3?
My scouting report has Grey with the instinctive post abilities and will be a good center as he grows. He will need to develop his offense.
Jay
June 19th, 2009
9:26 pm
ZaZa Pachulia the slowest guy in the NBA, started the first two years he arrived here as a free agent. His lack of athleticism led him to the bench (not Woody). Horford was not drafted to be the center but was the “best athlete available” at number 3.
Chico27
June 20th, 2009
3:13 am
I couldn’t agree more. Good insight!
jdewayneatl
June 20th, 2009
5:13 am
Mutombo was a good center but not a great center (no hall of famer) but those were easily obtainable for him. It’s not that you put those numbers up every night but the threat that you can put those up every night is what you are missing. Just the threat of the potential makes opposing coaches scheme their defensive plays with you in mind.
Try not to confuse capable with actual. Most teams when they know your potential will send help to keep that from happeing so your numbers may go down but the effect on the team in that it frees others is clear.
Try not to confuse capable with actual.
I’ve never said you need to average those numbers I said you need to have the potential to put those up….and don’t tell me about the four time or five times in Horford career that he put up decent number.
I have spelled out clearly that Horford is undersized, non instinctive or territorial as a center, 0 offensive weaponry and is a power forward. The Hawks would be better serve with him being modeled after Dennis Rodman than Tim Duncan.
Those are my views, agree or disagree is your right. Vie discussed this indebt, I’m moving on to a different subject.
Sautee
June 19th, 2009
9:35 pm
Have a nice day
truth-serum
June 20th, 2009
9:43 am
jdewayneatl
June 19th, 2009
7:13 pm
Truth serum,
How can you vouch for Aaron Gray, a CENTER who averaged 3.5 ppg and 3.9 ppg in the regular season and 0.0 ppg and 0.5 ppg in the playoffs
You never answered this one.
Grey averaged 4.5 minute in the playoffs. Those numbers say nothing for his ability.
G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF TOT APG SPG BPGTO PF PPG
56 18 12.8 .485 .000 .576 1.50 2.40 3.90 .8 .25 .32 .71 2.40 3.5
These are his numbers with a 12.8 minutes agame average. Do the math and figure what they would be over a complete game. he wouldnt be far from what im looking for. This is his rookie season. The Kids got potential.
Sautee
June 20th, 2009
10:15 am
Truth serum,
your words to me from your 11:55 a.m June 18 post:
“A good center(not a great one but a good one)would be capable of bringing 14-16 points per night with 12-14 rebounds and 2-3 block shots. Like say a ‘Mutumbo’.
Notice that you said “per night”. THAT’S THE KEY PHRASE.
Your words to jdewayneatl this morning:
”Mutombo was a good center but not a great center (no hall of famer) but those were easily obtainable for him. It’s not that you put those numbers up every night but the threat that you can put those up every night is what you are missing.It’s not that you put those numbers up every night but the threat that you can put those up every night is what you are missing.”
AHA, the story seems to be changing, eh?
If it’s NOT that you put those numbers up every night, then why did you say “per night”? You are trying VERY HARD to change the story now that you are painted into a corner.
You a so full of it and you are caught in your own lies.
“I’ve never said you need to average those numbers I said you need to have the potential to put those up…
More BS because as you and the entire blog can PLAINLY see, you DID say “per night”. Now you’ll try to tell us that “per night” doesn’t mean “average”.
I hope you have some paint remover for getting out of that corner. LOL!
Sautee
June 20th, 2009
10:21 am
Truth serum,
You said this to Ken S.: “Darryl Dawkins was not used to grab board but to control the flow of traffic and intimidate in the paint. It’s an instinctive position that comes to some naturally.”
Darryl Dawkins, for all of his controlling traffic and intimidating in the paint, averaged 1.4 blocks per game for his career.
Al Horford in 08-09 averaged 1.42 blocks.
Sautee
June 20th, 2009
11:48 am
jdewayneatl,
Maybe THIS will help: Aaron Gray started 18 games for CHI. this year. Here are his totals for those games:
4.1 points, 5.7 rebounds, 1.1 assists, 0.33 blocks
Does THIS clear things up?
Jay
June 20th, 2009
2:13 pm
truth serum
I’d be OK with the idea of obtaining a Center from Chicago–but it needs to be Brad Miller not Aaron Gray.
I’d even be Ok with obtaining Gray as a third string Center–just like he is in Chicago. Even though I think Randolph Morris has more potential than Gray, I’d still be OK with that move–not thrilled but OK.
When Gray had the chance to keep the starting job in Chicago, he couldn’t because he wasn’t ready for it. In fact, he is far from ready to make a significant impact on any NBA team at this point in his career, let alone be a starter for a playoff team.
This Hawk team just reached the second round of the playoffs and are looking to advance to the Conference Championship round. Are you seriously suggesting that obtaining Aaron Gray and making him their starting center is the move that will make the Hawks legitimate contenders for the conference championship?
Sautee
June 20th, 2009
3:15 pm
Jay,
Good points
truth-serum
June 20th, 2009
4:08 pm
Sautee
June 20th, 2009
10:15 am
Yes, brainfart, he should be capable of it every night. Capable is the key word loser. You aren’t very bright are you? For the hearing impaired. CAPABLE IS NOT ACTUAL…DDUHH! Capable means if you don’t put an able defender to stay with me at all times this is what’s going to happen to you. Is this really that difficult for you to receive, Sautee. Do you see why I ignore you? Get in to some counseling and hit me back when you are better. How can I talk with you of higher things when you can’t understand basics?
Jay
June 20th, 2009
2:13 pm
Grey is a rookie, or was this year. He wasn’t the starter. He may have fill in and started by he was not the starter. That’s misinformation. That was ZAZA the continuous turnover that lost the starting job. I see that if the hawks keep this nucleus together they will have a 5 or 6 year window. I still say they are plenty of options available. Right now the center post is our weakest position and we will not get far unless we address it.
Don’t put words in my mouth.
Sautee
June 20th, 2009
10:21 am
You are clueless. Don’t you have a house you can haunt?
Jay
June 19th, 2009
9:26 pm
“He was not drafted to replace Pachulia; he was drafted to complement Pachulia”
I will agree with you that Horford was not drafted to be the center. That was Pachulia’s job. All power forwards are a compliment to the center.
Sautee
June 20th, 2009
11:48 am
Yea, that clears up a lot. I thought you were retarded. Now I’m sure!
Fellows I appreciate moving the topic from an exchange of guards to the dire need for a center. I guess it’s the Hawk’s most pressing need and we’ve had some extensive conversation about it. I’m not the GM so he will call the shots. I will conclude that there are quite a few options out there. I don’t care for whiners. I appreciate the man that makes it happen.
Jay…don’t hate. Congratulate…Woodson on another successful year. He’ll be back next year so you can hate some more then. I guess you hate in the off season too. Haters will hate. It overwhelms your crew here so much to they can’t think straight…
Your writings have been reduced to your opinions. You are entitled to them. I’m glad you stop making blanket statements.
Michael Vick any one?
Sautee
June 20th, 2009
4:32 pm
Truth serum,
You said this: “I still say they are plenty of options available. Right now the center post is our weakest position and we will not get far unless we address it.”
Care to name some that actually out perform what we already have?
The ones you named before… Camby, Lopez and Gray, were not an upgrade from Horford “playing center”.
Despite Horford having the fewest touches on our starting team.
truth-serum
June 20th, 2009
4:35 pm
Tyrus Thomas , CHI
7 27.9 20 23 2.86
Kendrick Perkins , BOS
13 36.4 35 48 2.69
Dwight Howard , ORL
23 39.2 60 102 2.61
Joakim Noah , CHI
7 38.7 15 31 2.14
Dwyane Wade , MIA
7 40.7 11 20 1.57
Josh Smith , ATL
11 37.3 17 36 1.54
Samuel Dalembert , PHI
6 22.2 9 24 1.5
Jermaine O’Neal , MIA
6 27.0 9 18 1.5
Joel Anthony , MIA
6 14.7 7 9 1.17
Anderson Varejao , CLE
14 30.0 16 49 1.14
this is this years top ten in blks. Horford was number 19 b
Dawkins 1.47 block for a career would be a great achievement. Im sure at some point people stop going in there because they new what the results would be.
Yes Horford had one decent year blocking shots. Now hes down to 19. Pathetic for a starting center. His average was .67. That explains why guys like 5′10″ Tony Parker run down his throat.
Here is the ZaZa top this turnover Pachulia…number 39 on the list behind josh(#6),Al(#19)
Marvin Williams , ATL
6 16.2 2 8 .33
Ben Wallace , CLE
14 12.6 4 13 .29
Maurice Evans , ATL
11 24.1 3 29 .27
Ronald Murray , ATL
11 31.0 3 17 .27
Zaza Pachulia , ATL
11 23.7 3 40 .27
So Big Al blocks .67 and Z .27 Yeah I like Dawkins at 1.47 per game.
That .33 block that Grey had would put him 3rd on the hawks with only 18 games to compile the number. Yeah I like this kid.
Yes. the Hawks are handicapped at the center spot. Where not going to stop anyone with ZAZA and Horford.
truth-serum
June 20th, 2009
4:37 pm
All would be an upgrade over the open lane policy we have now!!
cory
June 20th, 2009
4:38 pm
jay & AB,
very good points in your 5:40 & 6:35(respectively) comments about woodson not even close to being in the top 20 (20 is my opinion). i have no problem with preaching defense to his team, but at the same time, he still has work with his players offensively & using their strengths against other teams. no matter what he truth serum says to support woody, woody still is not a good coach, he hinders this teams greatness. he is merely ok. he wont let his team run, which they clearly need to be doing. if he develops his young guys like he should be doing, he would see that acie could very well lead this team( provided he gets the playing time needed to really show what he can do). theres no way he can just come out & do what woody wants if woody wont play him.
sam mitchell still doesnt have a job. thoughts?
truth-serum
June 20th, 2009
4:40 pm
jdewayneatl
June 20th, 2009
4:58 am
I like your Horford, Amare Idea as well. It would be sweet…except neither one is a shot blocker.
jojo sunshine
June 20th, 2009
5:07 pm
Mark I think Caron Butler did what he did because he had to on a very bad team. I think Marvin Williams is getting better. I would not trade him, but if we trade him trade him to Minnesota and get two draft picks. If you throw in Speedy or Acie we might get all 3 of their picks. Then we have 4 picks in the first round and we still have some intangibles (Bibby’s massive contract that will come off the books next year I think, Josh Smith’s athleticism, Joe Johnson’s shooting touch).
I would definitely draft Stephen Curry – the best shooter and scorer to come out of the draft in a long time. We might even get the Clips to trade for a couple of picks and Josh Smith and then we get the best athlete in the draft since Lebron James (I did not say the best player but the best athlete). There is a lot you could do but we still need a point guard, center, and some one who can score consistently beside JJ.
truth-serum
June 20th, 2009
5:17 pm
Sautee
June 20th, 2009
4:32 pm
Lopez playing on a team that doesnt make the playoffs, dominates Horford in head to head matchup and his sorry team takes 2 out of three from the Hawks and you say Where is the up grade. If you consistantly beat me you must be better. He Dogged Horford!
Sautee
June 20th, 2009
5:22 pm
Truth serum,
Here’s just a sample of what you have called me over the past few days:
retarded, ignorant, foolish, clueless, in need of therapy, loser, etc., etc.
All because I had the GALL to challenge your opinion. Your self esteem must be TINY for you to be so bothered by someone disagreeing with you, that you stoop to belittling language. Or maybe you just need a bigger vocabulary.
Any way, you seem to be an obviously unhappy soul who has to lash out at those who think differently. There but for the grace of God go I.
Have a nice whatever.
truth-serum
June 20th, 2009
5:24 pm
Jay
June 19th, 2009
9:26 pm
“For the past 3 years, it seemed as if Pachulia could do nothing right-only a playoff confrontation with Kevin Garnett kept the fans from completely turning on him. Forcing Pachulia, a finesse player, to become a banger and play a style that was not conducive to what he does best caused his entire game to suffer”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAH HAHAH!!!!!
HAHASHAHAHHHAHAHAH!!!!YEAH RIGHT…THAT WOODY FAULT THAT ZAZA TURNED TO KONCAK. HE WAS ALWAY SORRY. ANOTHER BURST. PACHULIA A FINESSE PLAYER HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
STOP IT MAN!! NOW THATS FUNNY!!!
truth-serum
June 20th, 2009
5:25 pm
Sautee
June 20th, 2009
5:22 pm
JUST GO!
truth-serum
June 20th, 2009
5:32 pm
Sautee
June 20th, 2009
5:22 pm
Truth serum,
Here’s just a sample of what you have called me over the past few days:
retarded, ignorant, foolish, clueless, in need of therapy, loser, etc., etc.
WHERE HAVE I LIED?
Sund & Bradley Seperated @ Birth (NOT A COMPLIMENT) LOL
June 20th, 2009
5:36 pm
GEESH!! BRADLEY WHY ALL THE ACIE LAW HATE? YOUR DISDAIN FOR LAW IS DISTRUBING AND A BIT OUR OF HAND! DID HE TAKE UR PROM DATE? DID HE BEAT YOU IN A GAME OF 1 ON 1? YOU HATE ACIE LAW AND WE ARE JUST WAITING FOR YOU TO ADMIT IT. IVE NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER ONCE READ OF ANYTHING POSITIVE ON ACIE LAW THAT YOU HAVE WRITTEN. I THINK YOU NEED TO LET HIM KNOW HOW YOU FEEL IN PERSON INSTEAD OF ALWAYS BASHING HIM ON AJC!! (DOUBT YOU’D HAVE THE COURAGE)……..RUFUS1, DAN, DARRELL STARKS I TOTALLY AGREE!!!
TYGER REPLACE HAWKS WITH WOODSON AND MARK BRADLEY IS ABOUT AS SMART AS A ROCK LOL AND I GUESS THAT MAKES US JUST AS DUMB BC WE SIT AND DEBATE WITH HIM. HE IS ONLY ACCURATE 1% OF THE TIME AND THATS SPELLING HIS NAME RIGHT ON HIS OWN POST..
STARTERS: ACIE LAW,JOHNSON,WILLIAMS,SMITH,HORFORD
FIRST ROUND PICK DEJUAN BLAIR
Sund & Bradley Seperated @ Birth (NOT A COMPLIMENT) LOL
June 20th, 2009
5:37 pm
*DISTURBING
truth-serum
June 20th, 2009
5:46 pm
Sautee
June 20th, 2009
5:22 pm
OK YOU WIN.
I HAVE BEEN HARD ON YOU AND CRITICAL. I SAW THAT YOU IGNORE THE FACTS I PRESENTED AND IN MANY CASES YOU WERE ABRITRARY JUST FOR THE SAKE OF BEING ARBRITRAY. YOU TWISTED MY STATEMENTS AND MISQUOTED ME.I FELT YOU HAD A PRECONCEIVE VIEW, A UNFAIR DISLIKE OF WOODSON AND WAS PESTY. I ALSO FELT YOU ENJOYED BEING IGNORANT TOWARDS ME.
I DID NOT HAVE TO BE HARSH IN RESPONSE.
YOU ARE PROBABLY A NICE PERSON.
IF IVE HURT YOU OR OFFENDED YOU I APOLOGIZE.
Ken Strickland
June 20th, 2009
7:13 pm
SAUTEE-how irrational and out of touch would you consider a person that says to you, “A GOOD CENTER(a good one not a great one)WOULD BE CAPABLE OF BRINGING 14-16 POINTS PER NIGHT WITH 12-14 BEBOUNDS AND 2-3 BLOCKED SHOTS, LIKE SAY A MUTUMBO”. Then you have this clown saying to me, “YES KEN, I AM SAYING THE CENTER POSITION IS NOT ALL ABOUT REBOUNDS, BUT POSITION CONTROL”.
Tell me, how can a center average 9.3 rebounds and 1.42 blocks without having position control? The majority of the starting centers in the NBA are bigger and/or taller than AHorford, yet only a select few can match his overall production(scoring, rebounding, shotblocking, steals and assists).
This clown TRUTH SERUM is bouncing around the facts, and his own BS, like an out of control ping pong ball.
Jay
June 20th, 2009
8:20 pm
I’m not hating on Woodson but I’m not loving on him either. I’m calling it like it is. Woodson’s won-lost record has improved every year since he became the head coach and for that he needs to be commended. He has also improved as a head coach. With that said, he is not in the top ten of coaches in the league. His offensive system is designed for guards to take (and hopefully make) the majority of shots so a Center in Woodson’s system is not going to average 20 per game. Yes, he professes to be a defensively-oriented coach but gives his best perimeter defender (Mario West) less than one minute per game of playing time. Oh, and if it isn’t Coach Woodson’s fault that Zaza Pachulia plays worse not than he did in his first year in Atlanta, then you also don’t believe it was Coach Woodson’s fault that Boris Diaw played terribly in Atlanta only to blossom in Phoenix and continue his fine play in Charlotte. If it’s not Coach Woodson’s fault, then who’s fault is it? Or you unwilling to believe that the confidence a Coach shows in a player–especially a young player–can have a dramatic impact upon his performance?
I’m not putting words into your mouth. I’m trying to follow your logic but you make it difficult. Here’s what I mean, you give the list for the Eastern Conference playoff leaders in blocked shots on which Horford is 19th as proof that he is not a center but you call it this year’s top ten list in blocked shots. Yet, no Western Conference player is on the list; not Camby, not Nene, not Yao Ming and Dwyane Wade is ahead of Josh Smith on that list.
Let’s just cut to the chase: you maintain that Al Horford is not a Center–OK, fine–that’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. I maintain that he plays the center position when he’s on the floor with Smith and he plays the power forward position when he’s on the floor with Pachulia. He’s a tough, versatile and unselfish basketball player who gives his all every game. His offensive game has room for improvement and I believe he will put in the time and work to improve his game.
Now, you say that the center position is the weakest link of the Hawks’ starting five and there are plenty of options out there. I say the lack of a veteran bench followed by the lack of a PG are bigger problems than Al Horford at the Center position. I asked you before but you refused to answer, so I’ll ask you again: who should the Hawks get to play Center? what or who will it take to get that person and what makes you think that team will trade that person to the Hawks?
Cory–I think Sam Mitchell would make a fine head coach for a team with young talent that needs to be developed. He did a fine job with a young team in Toronto and was the fall guy when the GM traded their starting PG for a C/PF with chronically bad knees.
niremetal
June 20th, 2009
9:43 pm
Sautee/Jay/Ken,
No need to press on with truth-serum – no point in trying to teach pigs to sing.
niremetal
June 20th, 2009
9:49 pm
Jay,
That being said, I definitely don’t agree that Zaza is naturally or best-suited as a “finesse” player. He was also the exception to the rule when it came to Euro big men – he has a thick body and loves to bang. He might have an ok stroke on his jumper, but the best role for him is to be a Jeff Foster type who plays physical, crashes the boards, and plays tough D. I bash Woody for a lot, but Zaza has found his niche as a rough-and-ready, high-energy backup center. I don’t know why you think Pachulia isn’t doing just fine in the role he plays now. I promise you that teams will be interested in him this summer, and it won’t be because of his jump shot.
Wabe
June 20th, 2009
10:04 pm
You guys are arguing about things that are honestly irrelevant.
You get people around Horford to play up to their abilities, and this argument of Horford not being a true center is IRRELEVANT.
As of now, nobody can identify whether Smoove is a SF or PF. He spots up beyond the 3pt line and runs fast breaks (usually resulting in a TURNOVER) as if he were a SF(Point Forward). You have literally zero production at SF. Honestly, how many teams would Mo Evans be starting on in this league. He’s a decent player, but should be coming off the bench. Of course he started in place of an injured Marvin, but even when Marvin plays, he doesn’t provide enough production to take any pressure off of JJ. Then you guys whine and cry about why JJ ballhogs and takes so much time off the shotclock…
Really, I don’t see Horford playing as an undersized center as being the issue with the Hawks. Go find a “true center” and lets see how drastically the Hawks improve, because judging on the argument a few of you are selling, we would instantly become contenders…
SF/PG. Those are the holes on this team. Upgrade at PG or SF to take some pressure off of JJ. I’ll admit the hawks do lack in size a bit, but that lack of size isn’t what’s holding this team back…there are a dozen other things I can point to before I would even consider Horford’s size being the issue…
Truth-serum
June 20th, 2009
11:08 pm
Jay
June 20th, 2009
8:20 pm
I appreciate your articulation.
I accept your remark about posting eastern conference block leaders as being somewhat misleading. I wanted to have some showing for Horford on the defensive side and rather than just say he was a defensive presence I wanted to show his numbers, so the numbers could speak for themselves. If you pull up the entire NBA he is not ranked, so I had to pull up the conference to get some account of his work. .67 block shot average is awful for a starting center whether you are willing to admit it or not. Just for the record here is the block shot for the top 20 in the NBA
PLAYER NAME, TEAM NAME GP MPG BLK PF BLKPG BLKP48M BLK/PF
1 Dwight Howard, ORL 79 35.7 231 270 2.92 3.93 .86
2 Chris Andersen, DEN 71 20.6 175 174 2.46 5.76 1.01
3 Marcus Camby , LAC 62 31.1 132 129 2.13 3.29 1.02
4 Ronny Turiaf , GSW 79 21.5 168 243 2.13 4.76 .69
5 Jermaine O’Neal , MIA-TOR 68 29.8 136 211 2.0 3.22 .64
6 Kendrick Perkins , BOS 76 29.6 150 253 1.97 3.2 .59
7 Ming Yao , HOU 77 33.6 150 257 1.95 2.78 .58
8 Tyrus Thomas , CHI 79 27.5 151 220 1.91 3.33 .69
9 * Brook Lopez , NJN 82 30.5 151 257 1.84 2.9 .59
10 Samuel Dalembert , PHI 82 24.8 146 248 1.78 3.44 .59
11 Tim Duncan , SAS 75 33.7 126 173 1.68 2.4 .73
12 Emeka Okafor , CHA 82 32.8 136 247 1.66 2.43 .55
13 Josh Smith , ATL 69 35.1 111 184 1.61 2.2 .6
14 Shaquille O’Neal , PHX 75 30.0 108 253 1.44 2.3 .43
15 Joakim Noah , CHI 80 24.2 110 238 1.38 2.72 .46
16 Dwyane Wade , MIA 79 38.6 106 178 1.34 1.67 .6
17 Nene Hilario , DEN 77 32.6 101 278 1.31 1.93 .36
18 Lamar Odom , LAL 78 29.7 98 235 1.26 2.03 .42
19 Andrea Bargnani , TOR 78 31.5 97 242 1.24 1.9 .4
20 Spencer Hawes , SAC 77 29.3 93 249 1.21 1.98 .37
Number 3 and number 9 where both on my radar. No Hawk center made the list. Josh did but he’s a power forward and his blocks come from breaks to the basket not from manning the post like a center, with his back to the basket.
Every coach who faces the Hawks sees the Hawks as weak in the middle. Charles Barkley said it, the TNT crew discussed it, ESPN voiced it the only ones in denial about it is….the Woody haters. Horford and ZAZA are .67 and .27 for Block shots this year. It’s hard to sugar coat that.
What 200lb gorilla in the room?
Yet two of the guys on my list are in the top ten in the NBA in block shot and the third I have given as a result of my scouting.
Any center on this list would definitely upgrade us in the post.
You are right. I have not given you the center we should get. You send me your list of what you deem available or what you could get by packaging a deal. Tell me what we are authorized to spend and or trade and who is on the market behind the scenes and I’ll tell you who we should get….
Meanwhile like I’ve already said, I like Lopez, Camby and for the future I like Grey who would come at a cheap price.
Camby the # 3blks shot leader and Lopez is # 9 either would bring a definite impacts to the Hawks. We would lose nothing in offense and some ways gain. We would also stop teams from running down our throats. Lopez owns Horford.
By the way I also liked Jermaine O Neal but we sat on our hands when it was clear he was available and wanted to play for a playoff team. Miami made the move.
The seven dwarfs, ACIE, ZAZA, SOLOMAN, MARIO WEST, OTHELLO HUNTER, THOMAS GARDNER AND SPEEDY CLAXTON, and WOULD BE STARTERS ON 0…ZERO…NILL…NONE…NADA NBA TEAMS. THAT’S SEVEN SCRUBBS THAT YOU EXPECT WOODY TO OWN THE NBA WITH. GET REAL. ALMOST ALL OF THEM WOULD GET NO SIGNIFICANT TIME ON ANY OTHER TEAM IN THE NBA. They are draft or sign burst. You can’t make ZaZa Tim Duncan. He went from starter to turnover factory. Acie has had enough time in practice and games to develop. The one he’s got to blame is the man in the mirror. He’s a lot like Rumiel Robinson. You either step up or sit down. Don’t whine like a mother whose son doesn’t make the grade and so she blames the coach. The coach did not shoot that brick or turn the ball over or give up the dunk. Your son did.
You mentioned a player you felt did not get better under Woody. And? Big deal. This aint the CBA or a developmental league. I can count even more that did not make it here and left or was traded and they did not make it there either! Richard Hamilton Was a vagabond for a long time till he and underline the word HE, took his game to another level Flip has played for 5 or 6 teams and didn’t stick. But he and underline the word HE has taken his game to the next level. 95 % of the guys that leave here that are traded or cut are soon out of the NBA. IT’S CALLED BASKETBALL! For every Boris Diaw there’s a Rumiel Robinson or Stacy Augmon or Jon Koncak.
Woodson has done a great job. I’m not going to dismiss the accolades the he has earned being number 9 on the coach of the year poll. It’s an honor and enough sports writers felt that he was doing a bang up job, as did TNT and ESPN. I do to. He’s done a great job and I’m proud of him. You can spew you sentiments as long as you like. You are entitled to your opinion. The writers disagree with you, on this one so do I.
You can argue or hate, refute or diminish whatever you want to call it, all you like. I agree with the writers.
MJ3
June 21st, 2009
12:17 am
Woodson has done a great job. I’m not going to dismiss the accolades the he has earned being number 9 on the coach of the year poll.
You think that finishing 9th out of 22 eligible coaches (8 were basically not considered eligible bc they were hired midyear)? And where a bunch of others were either coaches of godawful teams (you think the Kings’ head coach was considered?) or coaches of teams that have done so well so consistently that they weren’t considered (like Phil and Doc)?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. God what a moron. How can u people waste time arguing with this fool?
Jay
June 21st, 2009
12:26 am
truth-serum,
So with one more blocked shot per game, Horford would go from awful to #12 in the league–would he still be awful? Lopez and Camby are unavailable and Gray is a project who would be less help right now than what the Hawks have. I don’t know whether you meant to do this or not but you made my argument for me when you referred to the “seven dwarfs” on the bench. The Hawks need an upgrade on the bench–that should be their top priority.
Enough of playing point-counterpoint. Suffice it to say that we each have our opinions about which we have strong convictions.
niremetal
I do think Zaza gives the rebounding, banging and toughness to the Hawks that Coach Woodson wants. In fact, there have been some games that the Hawks wouldn’t have won were it not for Zaza’s work. And yes, some team(s) will offer Zaza a lot of money because of his size, toughness and rebounding prowess, maybe even more money than the Hawks are willing to pay. I’m sorry if it seemed that I’m not a fan of Zaza’s work–I am. I’m simply saying that from an offensive standpoint, he has been reduced to the occasional tip-in or put back attempt after an offensive rebound.
But when he first came to the Hawks, Zaza had an offensive game that he tried to use. No, he didn’t shoot from distance but it was not a banging or bruising style of game, either. Unfortunately, whenever he’d commit a traveling or 3 second-violation, he’d get pulled from the game instead of being given the latitude to work his way through it. Now, you hardly ever see Zaza make any type of offensive move with the ball. It would be a shame if Zaza went to another team and insult would be added to injury if that team helped him become a true offensive scoring presence on a nightly basis.
Ken Strickland
June 21st, 2009
12:55 am
NIREMETAL-you’re absolutely right. This clown is a total waste of time and energy. Did you see the last post he directed at me? The truth hurts, and I definitely hit him where it hurts, with the truth. It’s also evident that he immediately retreats to assigning homosexual labels and inuendos whenever he feels threatened and/or exposed.
Zaza is a strange case. He has a very effective 12-15ft jumper, but instead of using it consistently, he prefers to post up and/or drive to the basket, which leads to many of his turnovers. He reminds me of Charles Oakley, who was a dominant rebounder that had trouble finishing around the basket. He did the opposite of Zaza and started shooting jumpers almost exclusively. Both players were unable to get any lift with the ball in their hands trying to score under the basket, but they had no problem getting enough lift going after a rebound. As a result of the problem, Oakley started shooting jumpers almost exclusively, which got him traded from the Bulls and ultimately became his downfall.
The main thing the Hawks need to become an elite team is a change in OFF philosophy and style of play. We need an OFF philosophy, and a penetrating PG, that allows us to attack and break down the DEF instead of our current philosophy of shooting over it. We need a more flexible OFF system that takes maximum advantage of the superior speed, quickness, athleticism and versatility of our frontline. We should be using our attributes to carve teams up. We don’t have enough shooters to be an elite team by consitently shooting 3pointers, which we do too much of. We’re also not tall enough or physical enough to become an elite team by being an effective inside scoring team. However, if we use our 3pt shooting ability and overall OFF balance, along with our superior athleticism, speed, quickness and versatility, we can become an elite team.