All-Trade Friday: Should the Braves deal Jeff Francoeur?
I thought it would work. I thought Jeff Francoeur would remember how to hit and the masses would forget he’d forgotten and all would be bliss for the hometown kid and the team of his dreams. But it’s not working, and I’ve come to believe it won’t.
Too much has happened. He got too big too fast. It wasn’t his fault. He was great from the moment of his big-league arrival in July 2005 and we — meaning the fans and the media and the Braves themselves — loved him and reveled in every detail of his charmed young life. But then, after two mostly solid full seasons, he stopped hitting. And everything changed.
Francoeur was upset when the Braves sent him to Class AA on the Fourth of July. “I don’t think there’s any way I can [feel as warmly toward the organization] 100 percent,” he said in February. “I want to play here forever; I’ve said that all along. But the business part of it is different.”
The Braves weren’t thrilled when Francoeur went to Texas to work with Rangers hitting coach Rudy Jaramillo. Said Terry Pendleton, the Braves’ hitting coach: “I asked Jeff, ‘Why didn’t you come to me?’ Obviously he felt the need to go elsewhere. It’s his winter. [But] it bugged me at first. Not hearing it from him, that got me more than anything. I told him, ‘I thought our relationship was better than that.’ ”
Loading ...Where once there was sunshine, there’s distrust and frustration. The Braves wonder if Francoeur can be coached. Francoeur wonders if the Braves have his best interests at heart. He tries too hard and falls back on bad habits. The Braves drop him in the order and struggle to be patient. And here he is, batting. 245 with a microscopic on-base percentage of .280. He’s on pace to finish with 11 homers and 71 RBIs — same as he did last year.
I thought it would work, but it isn’t working and I don’t believe it will again. Francoeur and the Braves need fresh starts. He needs to go somewhere where every swing and miss doesn’t stir civic angst. The Braves need a right fielder whose persona doesn’t outstrip production. Both parties need to breathe deeply again.
I would hate it if Francoeur played elsewhere. I’ve known him since he was a junior at Parkview — he remains the greatest high school football player I’ve seen in 25 years at the AJC — and he’s a fine fellow who tries to accommodate everyone. But I’d hate it more to see this psychodrama drag into August and beyond. It’s time for both sides to cut their losses. It’s time to trade Frenchy.
What could the Braves get for him? Probably not all that much, but that’s not really the point . They’d be better off without him, and he without them. He could slip into another uniform and be someone other than the homegrown Golden Child. He could relax. He could just go play ball again, as opposed to feeling compelled to sign every autograph and pose for every picture.
I am, as we know, wrong about everything, and I wouldn’t mind being wrong about this. I’d love to see Francoeur become the Francoeur we all thought he’d be, but the time for that seems past. I don’t see a happy ending for this player in this city with this team. Wish I did, but I don’t.
Other installments: Should the Thrashers trade Ilya Kovalchuk? And also: Should the Hawks trade Josh Smith?
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476 comments Add your comment
Paul Lentz
June 12th, 2009
8:45 pm
Now that at-bat is one of the MAIN reasons why Franceour will NEVER be a good Major League player. That pitch HUNG up there. It had “please tattoo me to the cheap seats” WRITTEN all over it. Yet, it goes to the warning track.
Not only does Franceour swing at slop…but he does nothing with the hangers that are supposed to be driven to the left field seats.
He threw out one runner, has stranded 6 runners in his last 2 at-bats. Do the math.
Paul Lentz
June 12th, 2009
8:55 pm
Even good players have stretches where they are going to have a few 0-4’s in a row. Just like Chipper has. However, when Chipper “breaks out” of it, he will have a couple of 3-4 with 2 homers kind of games in a week span. Yet when Franceour “breaks out of it”, he’ll have one game where he goes 2-3 with a walk and an RBI……then go back to his normal 0-4 with 2 strikeout kind of game for the next two weeks.
You guys will rip Chipper and McCann when they go 0-4. However you have to realize that even the best players generally fail “7 out of 10 times” at the plate. So if Chipper has a few 3-4 games in a row….it stands to make sense that he is going to eventually get a few 0-4’s.
The point is that Chipper, McCann and Escobar dont have “prolonged” slumps. Franceour has been in his for a year and a half. Franceour hits one home run……many of you will say “he’s getting ready to get hot”.
May I remind you that Rick Camp did hit one home run in his career back on that 4th of July game in 1985. Anyone can get lucky and hit one out (just like it seems Franceour did against the Cubs last week.
Mike J
June 12th, 2009
9:02 pm
We jump on Frenchy b/c he was bad last year as well, but most of the team suck offensively this year. No discipline, no approach, just hacking and stumbling their way through an at-bat. I say, since you arent going to get anything for him anyway, keep him and send him to AAA for the rest of the year to learn about hitting with a chance to resurrect his career.
Mark Bradley
June 12th, 2009
9:04 pm
Why don’t the Braves send Francoeur to Gwinnett, you ask? And promote … who?
Paul Lentz
June 12th, 2009
9:13 pm
Mark Bradley………….I would send Franceour to Gwinnett and start Matt Diaz in right field, until Frank Wren can hopefully make a trade for that elusive right handed power hitting right fielder. Matt Diaz isnt the long term answer in right field. However, I believe if Bobby were to play him for 2 weeks straight in right field, Matt Diaz would put up better numbers than Franceour has the past 2 weeks.
A little something from Diaz until Wren can swing a trade is much better than getting nothing from Franceour.
Mark Bradley
June 12th, 2009
9:14 pm
And for all those who suggested I should write something about Terry Pendleton … I just did.
Mark Bradley
June 12th, 2009
9:20 pm
Oh, and about Garret Anderson: I’ve said it before, but that’s just his demeanor. It’s nothing new. I covered him during the 2002 World Series — he got the winning hit in Game 7 for the Angels — and he looked just as dispassionate then.
Not everybody is Lenny Dykstra or Will Clark.
Paul Lentz
June 12th, 2009
9:21 pm
I must say, considering that Tommy Hanson didnt have his best stuff tonight……I think that he did an amazing job getting through 5 2/3 innings only giving up the 2 runs…….all the while giving up 9 hits and 5 walks. Talk about pulling a “Houdini”, lol. Most pitchers would have given up 6 or 7 runs with those numbers.
Still, he made a lot of improvement from his first start (just like Medlen did). He’ll be fine. Anyone can mow them down when they have their best stuff that day. However on days when you cant locate your fastball, when your curve ball isnt breaking…….you have to grind it out and “pitch” your way through it. I like how Hanson kept his composure.
Plus you have to remember that one of those 2 runs was scored as a result of Escobar dropping that throw from McCann.
BIOMASS
June 12th, 2009
9:26 pm
Gutsy title: Should the Braves trade Jeff Francoeur?
Wow. You have some brass ones, my friend.
What’s your next article? Should child murderers go to jail? Should the Earth remain in orbit around the Sun? Should women be allowed to have children?
I can’t wait for your next exploration into the obvious.
RHR
June 12th, 2009
9:49 pm
“That individual has to step up” – TP
And anyone with half a brain knows that. I know “Fire TP! It’s his fault Jeff sucks!” is a popular theme on these blogs but people who have left their mom’s basement at least once in the last 4 years knows better.
Don Pardo
June 12th, 2009
11:12 pm
Mark:
Remember Ron Gant? He was in a slump so bad they sent him back to A ball,but he worked his way back up and had many great years before he and his motorcycle had a meeting with a tree. Send Frenchy back down and let him start over. The talent did not just disappear.
The truth is if the Braves were winning no one would suggest we trade him, even the way he is hitting now. But with some many other holes in the line up some got to take the heat.
The second half of last year aside I have never though Kelly Johnson was a everyday hitter. Johnson’s stats are just as bad a Jeff why is not one calling him out. And don’t get me started on Garrett Anderson, at least Jeff plays the out field, I own sheep the can cover more grand the Garrett. Kotchman a great fielder but does not have have the power numbers you want from a first basement, especially with sheep in the outfield.
If you trade Jeff who are going to put out there that is any better. Gregor Blanco? He was far worse the Jeff last year and not as good in the outfield. Perhaps you want to give Jordan try. NOT!
AGTFan
June 12th, 2009
11:46 pm
While I think trading Jeff would be good for the Jeff, I don’t like giving up on players and I don’t like giving them away for nothing. Send him down or keep him here. I’m about convinced that this team is going nowhere either with or without Jeff. Look at trading some guys who can get us some prospects and build for the future. Somebody with a chance of playing post-season is going to be interested in a switch hitting 3rd baseman or a pitcher like Lowe or Vasquez. Trading more prospects for a quick fix is just going to prolong the agony. Trade for prospects, give Jeff till the end of the season to turn things around. If he doesn’t, release him.
Supes
June 13th, 2009
12:55 am
Paul Lentz…it feels like last year I had to carry the Jeff torch all alone, glad to have you step up this year and keep posting b/c some of these people just don’t get.
However, the great majority are knowledgeable baseball fans on this matter. Over 70% have spoken…Jeff doesn’t need to be on the 25 man major league roster. Trade him, option him to AAA, put him on the DL (with some made up injury like they just did Norton…sprained ankle my a&&, more like hitting a robust CORKY MILLER like .098!)
choozer
June 13th, 2009
1:02 am
If we didn’t have a near carbon-copy of Francouer playing 2nd base, and so little production out of LF, it would be a little easier to be patient with Frenchy.
Bill
June 13th, 2009
1:42 am
you are right about this
scottbravesfan
June 13th, 2009
2:33 am
The Braves won’t be able to trade him because no one will take him. He has zero trade value. The Braves are going to end up releasing him in the off season and he will sign with someone for the league minimum without a guaranteed spot on the roster and most likely be a bench player or go down to AAA and try to learn to hit.
DHD
June 13th, 2009
8:33 am
Another great headline by the AJC: “Should these stars be traded?”
Francoeur is a star now? Good one.
BravesFan4Life
June 13th, 2009
9:02 am
Braves could get nothing for Frenchy. I still have confidence in him as a clutch hitter. I love what they did with Glavine and McLouth. The team needs more bold moves like this – shake it up a bit.
Tim
June 13th, 2009
9:40 am
Let’s be honest here. It’s baseball where skill is not neccessary to be good. These players spend 95% of all innings standing around and the few times a ball is actually hit in their direction it will take minimum effort to catch the ball. Basically, this sport can be played by anyone with arms and legs. Trade him for a lesser player and get the same results. It’s 2009, does anyone care about baseball anymore? I would say NO! The “sport” lost its spunk 10 years ago. The major sports are Football, Basketball, Soccer, Hockey, Tennis and dodgeball. I think baseball comes just behind cricket in the worst sports in the world.
buckhead benny
June 13th, 2009
9:42 am
Mark- I think there has to be an agreement with the higher ups that Terry Pendelton takes over as manager for the Braves when he retires- It doesn’t make sense otherwise why they would keep somebody on board when there players that really need help go to other hitting instructors from different teams? Doesn’t get much worse than that- If your one duty is to be the hitting coach and you can’t do that- then why else would they keep him? Just some thoughts
oldbrave
June 13th, 2009
9:50 am
all of you are a bunch of idiots. If you were so smart then why arent you running a major league team instead of working for minium wage like most of you, losers.
oldbrave
June 13th, 2009
9:55 am
I am in the medical field and I wouldnt go to Bobby Cox for medical care so why sould he come to me for team advice. I am a true fan and yes I want the Braves to do well but I pull for them win loose or draw and the players that we have on the team. I played baseball as ayounger and man and got free education for doing so, that said if it was as easy to adjust and make the corrections that are suggested here you all would be major leaguers.
oldbrave
June 13th, 2009
10:02 am
logic wins out again wow
Joebrave
June 13th, 2009
10:04 am
Maybe they should trade Faliurecouer to Six Flags for Buford the Buzzard… Buford is prolly a better hitter.
Grace
June 13th, 2009
10:07 am
We trade based on potential, goobers. someone will snatch him up. Can we get a decent player for him? Depends on how good we can negotiate. At this point I’d take my chances. Let him go so he has a chance to start again and fix what’s between his ears.
scott
June 13th, 2009
10:34 am
Let him go. He proved to me last year that he is a prima donna by not being smart enough to go work it out in the minors (proves why he was heading to Clemson, thats the type scholar athlete they look for).He is still having his little hissy fits about it. He can catch the ball, great (there are hundreds of others that can do that do that too). He is mad about the money that went to McCann now while he had the same shot to sign. He is the new Andrew Jones but without the occasinal ability to hit a home run. I cringe when he bats and cringe more when he has men on base. I believe he believes he is bulletproof because he is from here. I think a change of venue would do him well.
Perhaps he needs to look at the work ethic and humility of McCann, whose team this is fast becoming (and by the way another Atlanta native).
Mark Bradley
June 13th, 2009
10:35 am
You know, I read on the blog all the time that Pendleton is set to be the next Braves’ manager. But I’ve never heard anyone inside the organization say that, not even off the record. Not saying it couldn’t happen — it does make some sense — but I wouldn’t say it’s set in stone.
SOUTHERN YANKEE
June 13th, 2009
10:35 am
How many times have Pendleton and Cox struck out this season?
Bobbymahlon
June 13th, 2009
10:48 am
As for trading Franceour I think it would be a mistake because first we are not going to get anything for him as this time. Also if we are trading because of lack of performance we had better start with some others who are not contributing as much such as Norton,Kelly Johnson and Garret Anderson. I know Frenchy is not hitting like expected but he still is a great right fielder, runners are very leary about taking extra bases with his arm and when they do like last night he saved at least one run and maybe more if the runner was safe and the inning goes on. Who ever heard of a player like Norton holding down a spot when they are hitting 0.98. Anderson is so slow and lazy in left so he has to hit or he is one big liability and Kelly is average at best at second base and hitting for a lower average than Franceour at the present time.
Barry
June 13th, 2009
10:50 am
I think Jeff needs to totally get rid of his ego. He seems to want to do things his way and guess what Jeff…ITS NOT WORKING! He’s so impatient at the plate. Last night in one at bat the count is 0-1 and he’s swinging at a slider thats being caught in the left handed batters box. OMG. There is no need whatsoever to be THAT aggressive. He seems to have no plan up there. He’s hacking at everything. The way he acts up at the plate it seems as if he doesn’t trust what TP or Chipper or anyone else is telling him. It’s great he tried to develop a new stance to get better balance, but it doesn’t help if he’s swining at balls up near his shoulders or down near his ankles in the other batters box. I think it’s time Chipper sat down with him and gave it to him straight up, but be almost yelling at him to try and get it through Jeffs thick skull. Jeff could be a good hitter and player, but he has some mental problems while up at the plate.
wp
June 13th, 2009
10:52 am
Everyone expected too much too soon from Frenchy. I for one think he is a very good ball player and will again play that way. He proved last night he can save runs with his play in the field and over time and a good batting coach he’ll once again hit. Fans in Atlanta expect superstar play immediately and it don’t happen that way in baseball. Just look at the list of young talent the braves got rid of and what they are today. As far as hockey and basketball WHO CARES.
siskel_god
June 13th, 2009
10:58 am
MB
You asked last night who the Braves bring up if they send down Francoeur, the answer is nobody. You just have to go with Diaz in RF and let Gregor spell whoever needs a day. JF is just lost right now he needs a mental break and to regain his confidence. You gotta look outside the organization for a replacement this year because a outfield of Diaz/McLouth/Anderson is still not good enough.
Ben
June 13th, 2009
10:59 am
Please, Please, Please, Jeff Francouer is not, and I repeat, is not a Star!!!!
siskel_god
June 13th, 2009
11:02 am
IDK if KJ still has options, anybody know? I think Omar will be the 2nd basemen everyday if he comes back full strength and hits like he has been, KJ has had every opportunity in the world to take that job and doesn’t seem to want it. I think he should go before JF.
ALB30092
June 13th, 2009
11:35 am
Just a thought, but you can’t “trade” a coach.
Rudy J
June 13th, 2009
11:44 am
My question is, the faults in Jeff’s swing are so apparent, is anyone trying to do anything about it? I never see or hear about Jeff working on his batting with a professional. (At the high school level, you can get away with a faulty swing.) One thing that does bother me is, I don’t sense that the relationship/respect between Coach Pendleton and Jeff (and other players???) are close enough to project any postiive outcomes. If you don’t fix what’s broken, it will never get better regardless where Jeff ends up playing.
Ted T.
June 13th, 2009
11:50 am
I have to say, this Paul Lentz fellow seems to have a fairly knowledgable and pragmatic approach to the situation. Let’s bring him in as a unbiased, independent consultant for the rest of the season. If someone stinks, he can say so and not have to worry about repercussions.
TONY
June 13th, 2009
12:56 pm
Sometimes we tend to believe everything people write or say about us. Jeff has fallen into that catergory.
He came up at a time when the Braves were not playing very good, Instead of ranting about how poorly
this team were playing, people and the media found something good to talk about and that was JEFF
FRANCOEUR. Fans and the media compared him to DALE MURPHY. SPORTS ILLUSTRATED tab
him the “natural”. FRANCOEUR at one point said,” I do not go to the plate to take balls, I go to swing
at them.”
JEFF FRANCOEUR has sadly fallen into that “i am a star and nobody can tell me what to do syndrome.”
That is why he went to TEXAS for batting instructions. By doing this, it has left a sad taste in the BRAVES
mouth. I blame the organization. So, it is better to move on for his sake. He will become a better or even
a great player. But , it will not be for this organization!
Skeezix
June 13th, 2009
4:05 pm
It’s too early to pull the plug on Francouer. He has a lot of potential, is a great outfielder and I think he will work out his hitting problems before season’s end. What does TP’s feelings got to do with this decision? If I was a professional baseball player, I’d go to whatever coach I felt could help me the most (especially in the offseason). Also, with his hitting woes, he ain’t good trade bait. Face it, this team’s not going to the playoffs this year—so let’s keep building for the future. The starting pitching, once Huddy returns, will be great. Once Omar returns, I think the offense will start clicking again (as it was before he was injured). If Frenchy figures it out, the offense will get well fast. I can’t figure out why that idiot Wren paid all that money for Anderson and Kawakami. They are the ones who need to go. Be patient folks, and the sun will shine on the Braves again.
bravesfanforever
June 13th, 2009
4:49 pm
Oh yeah, firing Terry Pendleton will suddenly turn Frenchy into the Babe Ruth that he is and will surely fix all of our hitting woes. I think it is silly to think that a hitting coach really has that much control over the talent that players supposedly have. The only reason a team even has a coach is to simply provide an additional thought maker to help the players with their issues. THEIR ISSUES. You can’t squeeze blood from a turnip. It’s ridiculous to think that at this level these guys need that much tutoring. My god, these are not little leaguers still learning the game! Just like TP said, “STEP UP!”
Apparently with Francoeur this is true. He really is relearning the game–or at least he is supposed to be. Look at how many strikes are against Frenchy in the first place.
1. He never had much patience in the minors
2. He never spent much time IN the minors in the first place.
3. Major leaguers typically do not remake their swings once they make it to the big time. It’s hard enough just to make it to this level in the first place.
4. Jeff Francoeur has NEVER struck me as someone who can make adjustments and that goes back to #1. Hitters that are the best at making adjustments are those who typically are patient, because they are DISCIPLINED.
Normally hitters make adjustments in order to extend their careers not to simply survive in the big leagues. I predicted all a long that there was about a 2% chance that he would improve this year. Look at where we are at. He is exactly the same as in 2008.
bravesfanforever
June 13th, 2009
5:13 pm
1. It’s not his ego. He just can’t hit. He never could. Pitchers have caught up with his deficiencies and now he is not major league worthy. It happens. Let’s just call his first few years great athleticism but we all can see how far that can take a player. Michael Jordan, one of the greatest athletes who ever lived, couldn’t play baseball. There is more to hitting a baseball than brute strength or what is between a person’s ears. Some guys just can’t hit and they don’t belong in baseball. Period.
2. MLB players are supposed to be able to hit at this level. No amount of coaching or prodding is going to change that. You can tweak a few things but you can’t completely dismantle a player’s swing and stance and rebuild him. Not going to happen.
3. The only reason Francoeur is still with this team is because we could find a taker and we don’t have a replacement–NOT because there is a big hope he will rebound!
Let’s face it: This team is not going anywhere this year. It would take an absolute miracle with this many holes in the line up. Now explain to me how it is going to get much better: Chipper will be one year older and there is no heir apparent. We will still have holes in RF, LF, 2B, and the bench (if Infante plays well the rest of the season–fine– but that doesn’t fix our problems), and there are no immediate call ups from the minors. Heyward may make the team by late next season (call up to AA this year, AAA next year, then the majors perhaps?). But he may not perform at a high level so he may not help much. You never know about rookies.
Look at the guys who you want to build this team around: Brian McCann, the aging and brittle Chipper Jones and? Escobar is great but he sure is having some mental lapses at SS and besides, he is not going to be hitting 25 homers any time soon with that swing. He is a gap hitter. Then we have McLouth who is pretty good, but he is no franchise player.
Trade Vasquez or Kawakami? Who would you get in return? The team still has some pretty big holes to fill. Could be 2011 before we are true contenders.
So yes, I say trade Francoeur but be prepared to trade others and start over. I would love to see us make some trades for some younger guys and take a few hits in the win column just so that we can build this team back up.
We could have contended this year but it would have taken rebounds from Johnson, Kotchman, Francoeur, and Anderson, and for Schafer to fulfill his destiny. Guess that was too much to ask. Who knows, maybe Schafer will come back next year with a vengence and we can move McLouth to RF, Johnson either comes back or we trade him and let Prado take his place. There are too many question marks going into next year to make me think that this team can make it to the playoffs–because we had just as many question marks before this year!!
Bravoravo
June 13th, 2009
5:23 pm
Vazquez and Frenchy for Nelson Cruz
Justinn
June 13th, 2009
7:48 pm
The problem is in order to trade him so one would have to want him.
francoeuristheman
June 13th, 2009
11:42 pm
sunday night – francoeur went 3 for 4 with 2 rbi’s, sounds pretty good to me when chipper and mccann go 0-8, and we lost 8 to 4…he needs to stay, tp needs to go, and we need to focus on the bullpen.
will
June 14th, 2009
4:25 pm
I think the Braves issues are deeper than just Jeff. Look at the recent young prospects that were doing so good at the A,AA,AAA levels and come up to the Braves only to falter down the road. Then if we trade them, look how good they do elsewhere on other teams. The batting coach has to be looked at, we continue to struggle especially against sub-par teams.
CC
June 14th, 2009
5:25 pm
Have any of you played a day of baseball in your life? Why is he worse than the rest of the line up? If he should be traded so should the rest of the team, including, dare I say, Chipper. He hasn’t hit the broad side of a barn in 20 at bats, and he should know everything about hitting by now.
7
June 14th, 2009
5:29 pm
YES, Trade JF as soon asp. Cox needs to go also.
ivan babbit
June 14th, 2009
5:35 pm
I can remember a great young outfielder with can’t miss attributes. He had awesome power and great passion for this great game of baseball. He began to be booed off the field and told he was a bum by his hometown fans.The harder he tried the more he struggled. He was young and the more that he struggled in the limelight of the majors the more he failed.
After trying so hard and failing,he began contemplating quitting this game he loved so much. This young players name was Mickey Mantle and thank God he didn’t take the advise of the critics.
I watch Jeff Francoeur almost everyday. Sure he’s struggling at the plate on a team that seems to breed uncertainty. He doesn’t feel comfortable at the plate. He is a great outfielder with one of the best arms in the game.
The Braves hitting coach is a part of this problem. Watch enough Braves games and pattern emerges regarding the entire teams hitting philosophy.
May be I am wrong but I think Jeff Francoeur will become a great major league player. He has always been a great outfielder and with some minor adjustments he will become a 300 hitter
The Braves should be in first place in their division. There are other problems much worse than Frenchy. Right now what is need is patience for a prospect that I believe will deliver everything that he is capable of. Brave do not make another stupid move and loose one of your future stars. Help him adjust hitting wise and he will be just fine.
billy stover.
June 14th, 2009
5:57 pm
if the pitcher rolls the ball on the ground {frenchy} would strike at it.terry p. reminds me of a big gorilla sitting in the dugout eating his sunflower seed.
Rufus
June 14th, 2009
8:03 pm
Since last year Francoeur, as well Johnson, aren’t their part.
Johnson, is not even a good second base, and strikes out way too many times.
Francoeur, is a very good outfielder, but can’t hit his weight.
If you could replay, last years Brave to this years Brave, you would find a perfect copy.
As long as you have the old way of doing business, you’ll find the same old predictable Braves.
One can’t blame just one person, but it does reflect on one person, and it’s the manager.
You have records keeping, on player, errors, fielding, etc.
But there isn’t one on managers, who blow the game.
Bobby Cox should step down, he was good at one time, long ago.