All-Trade Friday: Should the Braves deal Jeff Francoeur?
Can Jeff Francoeur feel safe at home? Not any longer, I fear. (AP photo by Gregory Smith)
I thought it would work. I thought Jeff Francoeur would remember how to hit and the masses would forget he’d forgotten and all would be bliss for the hometown kid and the team of his dreams. But it’s not working, and I’ve come to believe it won’t.
Too much has happened. He got too big too fast. It wasn’t his fault. He was great from the moment of his big-league arrival in July 2005 and we — meaning the fans and the media and the Braves themselves — loved him and reveled in every detail of his charmed young life. But then, after two mostly solid full seasons, he stopped hitting. And everything changed.
Francoeur was upset when the Braves sent him to Class AA on the Fourth of July. “I don’t think there’s any way I can [feel as warmly toward the organization] 100 percent,” he said in February. “I want to play here forever; I’ve said that all along. But the business part of it is different.”
The Braves weren’t thrilled when Francoeur went to Texas to work with Rangers hitting coach Rudy Jaramillo. Said Terry Pendleton, the Braves’ hitting coach: “I asked Jeff, ‘Why didn’t you come to me?’ Obviously he felt the need to go elsewhere. It’s his winter. [But] it bugged me at first. Not hearing it from him, that got me more than anything. I told him, ‘I thought our relationship was better than that.’ ”
Loading ...Where once there was sunshine, there’s distrust and frustration. The Braves wonder if Francoeur can be coached. Francoeur wonders if the Braves have his best interests at heart. He tries too hard and falls back on bad habits. The Braves drop him in the order and struggle to be patient. And here he is, batting. 245 with a microscopic on-base percentage of .280. He’s on pace to finish with 11 homers and 71 RBIs — same as he did last year.
I thought it would work, but it isn’t working and I don’t believe it will again. Francoeur and the Braves need fresh starts. He needs to go somewhere where every swing and miss doesn’t stir civic angst. The Braves need a right fielder whose persona doesn’t outstrip production. Both parties need to breathe deeply again.
I would hate it if Francoeur played elsewhere. I’ve known him since he was a junior at Parkview — he remains the greatest high school football player I’ve seen in 25 years at the AJC — and he’s a fine fellow who tries to accommodate everyone. But I’d hate it more to see this psychodrama drag into August and beyond. It’s time for both sides to cut their losses. It’s time to trade Frenchy.
What could the Braves get for him? Probably not all that much, but that’s not really the point . They’d be better off without him, and he without them. He could slip into another uniform and be someone other than the homegrown Golden Child. He could relax. He could just go play ball again, as opposed to feeling compelled to sign every autograph and pose for every picture.
I am, as we know, wrong about everything, and I wouldn’t mind being wrong about this. I’d love to see Francoeur become the Francoeur we all thought he’d be, but the time for that seems past. I don’t see a happy ending for this player in this city with this team. Wish I did, but I don’t.
Other installments: Should the Thrashers trade Ilya Kovalchuk? And also: Should the Hawks trade Josh Smith?
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Guides
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2009 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
476 comments Add your comment
Sirmonator
June 12th, 2009
7:10 am
Mark,
You are far from wrong. I completely agree with you assessment. It’s definitely time to part ways, which would be good for both sides. Even if Jeff becomes “good” again, it will never happen here and hopefully management realizes that.
RHR
June 12th, 2009
7:27 am
Should the Braves deal Jeff Francoeur?
For the love of God, YES! I can’t wait for the day the long and painful Jeff Francoeur experiment is mercifully over.
ND
June 12th, 2009
7:41 am
If they can’t get anything for him, and we know they can’t, then send his arse to AAA the rest of the season.
BJE
June 12th, 2009
7:52 am
“He needs to go somewhere where every swing and miss doesn’t stir civic angst.”
These are the best words written or spoken about this matter. Read the comments above and the ones sure to be spoken below. People obsess over this subject. The Braves have bigger problems than Frenchy, but sadly we live in a message board/talk radio culture. The biggest downfall of these two mediums is the following, very predictable cycle.
A narrative is manufactured (don’t think the AJC and the sports radio guys aren’t aware of what topics drive ratings,) the fans are flamed and then groupthink occurs. I can’t wait to hear the descriptions of Francoeur such as “painful” emerge below.
At this point Jeff is a moderately paid outfielder going through a swing change and producing moderate results. Or, to hear some, he is the root of all evil in Atlanta and should be publicly stoned.
Truly pathetic, but I can’t wait to see what is written. Let the herd commence all saying the same thing.
Brian
June 12th, 2009
7:54 am
Good column and good call. Most of us still hope that he’ll do well and any day that he gets two hits, as he did yesterday, gives us reason to believe. However, what the Braves need is more consistency in terms of power and average; at least someone with a 350+ OBP. I’m a realist, though- what can you get for him??
Caleb
June 12th, 2009
7:57 am
If the majority of the lineup is struggling at the plate, perhaps Jeff is not the problem. Maybe the Braves organization in general needs to put more emphasis on hitting. Maybe they just need to shake up the old guard and bring in some new faces with fresh ideas…no disrepect to the legends (i.e.: Shurholtz, Cox and Pendleton). They’ve relied on good pitching for so long, and they may be a bit too focused on that aspect of the game. I’m a Red Sox fan and wouldn’t mind seeing him up in Boston with Smoltz. It could happen. Being an Atlantan by birth though, I’d sorta like to see the hometown kid become a legend here. I’m pulling for Franceour regardless.
Atlanta Journal Constitution » Blog Archive » All-Trade Friday: Should the Braves deal Jeff Francoeur?
June 12th, 2009
8:01 am
[...] Mark Bradley | ajc.com – [...]
Big Al
June 12th, 2009
8:02 am
As stated above, the entire Braves starting line up is struggling at the plate. Could the problem be Terry Pendleton?
Bank Walker, Texas Ranger
June 12th, 2009
8:02 am
Couple of things, first JF has no value at this point, so a trade is not going to net much. And he won’t go to AAA and if he did, how is that going to help without a hitting coach. In Jeff’s defense, this lays at the feet of Pendelton. The only hitters we have (Chipper & McCan) have dad’s as hitting instructors. I don’t blame Jeff for going to the Texas hitting coach. He made a millionaire out of Derosa, Hamilton, Kinsler, Young, Blalock and this year Cruz along with everyone else he comes into contact with. Even Andruw is batting .250. We need to trade for Rudy Jaramillo.
Rich
June 12th, 2009
8:08 am
They should not trade Frenchy. He hustles which is more than can be said for Garrett Anderson. The batting order from 5 through 8 are not productive. And the common denominator for them all is Terry Pendleton.
Nativebird
June 12th, 2009
8:08 am
Trade’s are not the end all to be all…a trade for trades sake is THE worst thing any GM could possibly do. A trade (with ANY player) is only worth considering when there is something more valuable (real or percieved)to get in return.
At present, we’re simply not going to get anything better. Alas, your other options are better, sit, train, teach, change, send down, send up, send out for Chinese for goodness sake. Not like you have a whole lot of money in him, some, but not like the bank.
I’ll say this again. I’d trade TERRY PENDLETON before I’d trade the hitters he has NOT been able to help. no question, THE WOST hitting coach in the Major leagues. What a Joke.
Ward Cleaver, Beaver's Dad
June 12th, 2009
8:10 am
Yes
Bleu_Bayou42
June 12th, 2009
8:18 am
I agree 100%, I don’t think we can get a bag of balls for Frenchy right now. I think we are looking at an outright release.
the truth...
June 12th, 2009
8:20 am
AAA is the answer for now. There is no point in giving him away, he might as well be in Gwinnett. That way he can go thru what most players go through and get his head on straight. Then he’ll be ready for the show.
He has always been the Golden One….let him earn it again like he did on the high school level…then he’ll be the ballplayer he can be….
Let that be his Paris Island….then he’ll be able to function again with confidence…
Don’t give away that past number one pick for nothing…
Mike Hunt
June 12th, 2009
8:22 am
Trade him? For what? A bag of baseballs. No team in their right mind will give the Braves anything of value for him. Until this team addresses the black holes that exist at 1B,2B,LF, and RF, they will be nothing more than mediocre.
K Ku
June 12th, 2009
8:27 am
Watch Thursday game with the Pirates. He was the only light in the loss.
Joeschmo
June 12th, 2009
8:29 am
Yes… get rid of the pampered head case… and McJerk as well. Then we’ll be on the road to success… not sub-par mediocrity of which both track records reflect.
Meat Rabbit
June 12th, 2009
8:30 am
Mr MB, the Meat Rabbit is happy to have Friday off from work and is looking forward to blogging with you today. My opinion is heck no they shouldn’t trade JF…..SI cover boys only come around ever so often. Seriously, what value does he have? And I guess that is a question for Frank Wren. I would not give JF away, period. If we are out of this race when the trade deadline approaches, and we get approached by (or if we approach) a contending team and can get a couple of top notch prospects (hitters) for him, then FW should consider it. If we get minimal value in return, then I say to keep him and try harder to get his stuff straight. Where is that psychologist that worked with Smoltz years ago?
billy stover.
June 12th, 2009
8:32 am
It looks like the whole team needs to go down to triple AAA.I wouldn’t go to a braves game if the tickets were free.These players show no hustle what so ever, why do they care, they get paid win or lose.
Jack Daniels
June 12th, 2009
8:33 am
Frenchy needs to go, Terry needs to go, Kelly needs to go, and dare I say it… Bobby needs to go…
Bobby Cox is da man!!!
June 12th, 2009
8:33 am
Hitting major league pitching is all about adjustments. The pitchers adjust to the hitters then the hitters must adjust as well. Guys that get by on raw talent do not always succeed at the major league level (remember Brad Kominsk). What would be so wrong with another trip to the minors in an attempt to make him adjust. Let’s see if he can figure it out there. Learning on the fly on the major league roster just isn’t working for him.
the truth...
June 12th, 2009
8:37 am
I emailed Dave O’brien a couple of weeks ago about the psychologist, Jack Llewelyn. Dave says that he has been sick and not very active. Apparently he has MS and has more important things to do than worry about a bunch of spoiled millionaires playing a kids game….
Hey maybe that is it….Jeff boy needs to remember that this isn’t life and death….it’s a kids game….then he’ll relax and have fun again…
NC Braves Fan
June 12th, 2009
8:37 am
Mark – this is a terrific post, and I hope that people can set their hostility for Jeff aside – and read the words you’ve written.
Read. The. Words.
Set the business considerations aside. This is a human story now and I think it is time to trade or DFA Frenchy to allow him to move on with his life and career. For both sides, it’s likely to be a win-win.
Swaga1
June 12th, 2009
8:40 am
yea, sure blame Terry Pendleton for the braves not being able to hit….when does the blame ever fall on the actual hitter who are getting paid ridiculous amounts of money to be able to hit the ball? Of course the hitting coach is there to help hitters with certain approaches but it falls on these millionaires to be able to get better at their own craft since they did choose this as a career. Stop blaming the ones who are not actually hitting the ball.
some sense
June 12th, 2009
8:43 am
Unfortunately, little market exists for Jeff, so don’tn expect much in return…more of a “suspect” than a “prospect”. BUT the simple fact remains…Jeff is the face of a very mediocre franchise, the poster boy for the team’s relative failures. If Jeff left, all would benefit…he would, the team would, the franchise would. Poor guy’s walking anxiety for all.
tale of woe
June 12th, 2009
8:45 am
When was the last time Frenchy had good back-to-back games? Last season? Maybe? I agree Mark, he needs to go and get a fresh start. The sooner the better!
Daniel
June 12th, 2009
8:54 am
It is time to trade Francouer. He has more value around the league than here in Atlanta. Remember Boston has been scouting him. I am not suggesting we will get back an All-Star, but something is better than nothing. Perhaps a middle relief arm and a low level prospect.
Swaga1
June 12th, 2009
8:54 am
Enter your comments here
Mary
June 12th, 2009
8:57 am
Frank Wren dumps Glavine and is keeping Franceour? I think a new GM would be the correct answer here.
getmattholliday
June 12th, 2009
8:58 am
Yes
Mac
June 12th, 2009
8:58 am
Maybe he needs to see Smoltz’s shrink. I wish he’d start a tear that lasts the rest of the season so we can stop obsessing about this. The Braves have excellent pitching. Francouer is not the only one not hitting like a major leaguer. The Braves can’t get a big bat without weakening the pitching, which is stupid. They aren’t going to contend this year anyway, so sit tight, chill and accept this year for what it is … a step forward in a rebuilding process.
Swaga1
June 12th, 2009
8:59 am
Yea, sure its easy to blame Terry Pendleton when the team is not hitting well. When does the blame fall on these millionaire players who actually are responsible for being able to get good at their own craft? of course the hitting coach is there to help but when it all boils down to it, its the hitters who are up there to hit the ball, not the coaches! Lets face it, Jeff is not as good as we all thought he would be, so lets stop being in denial. I say go play football! Golden child?….what a Joke!
ProfFish
June 12th, 2009
9:00 am
This posting contains questionable speculations. If you are interested in the subject proposed, please add ProfFish at the start of your posting to allow easier searching.
I’ve been thinking about this for a while, and I’m not comfortable with the subject, but it’s time someone starts taking a real close look at the possibility that Francouer used performance enhancing drugs at some point in his career. At the same time, I’d like to suggest a new approach to this blog that might help us find some answers.
Remember, a decade ago there was little interest in controlling a wide variety of drugs and no testing at all. And, if you don’t think kids are juicing, drop by a Little League ballpark and look at the arms and thighs on 11 year olds. I watched an 11 year old crush a 300 foot home run last night. Proof? No. Suspicion and reasonable doubt? Absolutely, especially since the kid has serious joint problems from growing too fast. He hobbled around the bases.
Back to pro sports. When the sorry history of the era is written, there are going to be many stories told about those who were decent ballplayers, not superstars, and who would never have made the big leagues without help. We’ve focused too much on superstars and now need to look marginal players who had some great seasons. Marcus Giles always comes to mind. Pre-testing, he actually led the league in doubles one year if I remember correctly. Post-testing, isn’t he somewhere in Asia?
What may have happened to Giles and what may have happened to Francouer? The common element is they both lost “explosiveness”, and the ability to rapidly release energy. The ball used to jump off their bats, now it flutters. Energy levels that were once almost comical at times have clearly declined to more normal human levels. Changes in output and production are obvious, just as the reason for those changes is not.
How will we ever know? AJC journalists are now pseudo-Fox News anchors rousing the rabble and sitting on the sidelines in blogs. Don’t doubt that it breaks their hearts to be forced into this role, and expect the exodus from the occupation to continue. Do you really think MB would rather be sitting at his computer when he could be investigating one of the most important sports stories of our lifetime?
A lot of people are going to read this posting. Our backgrounds and access to information vary widely, but together we know and can do a lot. As a society, we must replace responsible journalism with responsible blogging if we are going to find answers to questions that are important to us. Maybe we can do so here.
A quick Google will identify websites that are addressing similar issues, for example http://juicedsportsblog.com/. Unfortunately, these tend to be amateurish or clearly have commercial goals. Here in this forum, we have the freedom to research and report without any requirement to sell advertising space. Maybe we can use it. Here are some suggestions:
We have some great stat-jocks here. Look at players from the 1960s. See what percentage of the group showed significant decline from their first five years in the league to their second five years. Then look at players from 1998 through 2008 and do the same thing. This could be at least an indication of how wide-spread unpredictable performance decline has been. If you have questions about how to set up the data, just ask.
We also have a lot of athletes, coaches and trainers on this board. I’ve been told directly by an Associate Athletic Director at a Division 1 school with a background in training that he could tell exactly who was juicing, when they started, and when they quit. is this true? Are the physical signs so obvious?
We have a lot of members of the Atlanta community who are fans or participants in sports. How many people are juicing, especially at the high school level? Just ask. But, please be careful not to start a witch hunt or to forget that everyone, including Francouer and Giles, is absolutely innocent until proven guilty.
Our moderator needs to help us here, if he’s interested in carrying on the discussion. We would probably need some sort of semi-permanent blog and we would definitely need training in journalistic ethics. For example, journalists prefer public information from quoted sources, as we all do. When sources go anonymous, journalists usually seek confirmation from additional sources. Not a hard and fast rule, but a good guideline.
How about it? Anyone interested in intelligent discourse that extends beyond single syllable words? Is there a possibility that we might actually do something here other than rant?
Joey
June 12th, 2009
9:01 am
Trade Pendleton, not Frenchie!!!
Johnny
June 12th, 2009
9:02 am
Why is Josh Smith getting brought into this? How is he comparable to Jeff Francouer?
If we released Frenchy right now (or traded him or whatever), my lasting impression on him would be the quote, “If OBP is so important, then why don’t they put it on the scoreboard.”
Buzz
June 12th, 2009
9:02 am
I’d just bench him and keep him as a defensive replacement. He is a competent outfielder.
I’d platoon LF, keep McLouth, put Infante (or Prado?) in RF. Let Jeff play only when the game is out of hand. If that doesn’t teach him, nothing will.
And if a man his age can’t listen to someone like Bobby Cox, he’s a proven idiot anyway.
Mac
June 12th, 2009
9:06 am
The Braves only have a “hole” at 1B when Kotchman is out. He’s a good defensive player and offensive player. First doesn’t have to be a home run spot for a team to be successful. Sure, look at Fred McGriff and the Big Cat, but also see Sid Bream. Kotchman is not a problem.
Swaga1
June 12th, 2009
9:07 am
The problem is Mac, is that the braves do not want to spend any money. They are cheap! they want to put bandaides over the problem instead of actually fixing them, and then somehow hopes that they miraculously work themselves out. You have to pay for talent. Im sure all the braves home games would be sold out if we actually had a good team on the field. y should i spend/waste my hard earned money to see a team that’s not worth lookin at on tv much less goin to see in person.
DeeDee
June 12th, 2009
9:09 am
I think that this is any easy story for Bradley to write. All he has to do is edit his last article about Frenchy and submit. I’m not a Francouer fanatic but the WHOLE team stinks right now! Come one Bradley, write about some of the others……..like Pendleton!
Lowcountry Bulldawg
June 12th, 2009
9:09 am
What about Garrett Anderson? Kotchman? KJ? Frenchie is only part of the problem. McClouth while a nice player is not the talent to put the Braves over the top. With or without Frenchie the Braves will struggle to be a .500 team.
Swaga1
June 12th, 2009
9:12 am
Mac, the braves are cheap….they don’t want to spend money. They like to put bandaides on glaring weaknesses and somehow hope they miraculously work themselves out. If the braves don’t spend money to get quality talent in here Turner field will continue to have empty seats. Why should i spend/waste my hard earned money to see a team that’s not even worth me watching it on tv much less going to see in person.
jon-b
June 12th, 2009
9:13 am
I think he is trying too hard – good games this weekend following the 2-hit game of yesterday could be a good start for him to salvage this season. The Braves are struggling as a team but leaving Matt Diaz in with Frenchy and Kelly for awhile and getting the bottom half of the order streaking a bit would do wonders for the team. The pitching is stable but too much weight to bear without a more consistent attack available – it will come around and this road trip is just the place to do it. I believe that the trade should be Garrett Anderson because we can get something for him and the faith it will show the remaining team will pay dividends. I know I am an optimist, but having been a Braves fan for over 50 years, optimism has to be a lasting trait or life isn’t worth much. Good column Mark – thanks for taking the “tough road” so often – it must be a challenge being a columnist in Atlanta.
Mitch C
June 12th, 2009
9:14 am
Mark, while from a “numbers” standpoint, you may be right, I have several problems with trading Jeff.
One, as you said, what can we get for him? If it’s not the “all that much” that you say, then are we not better off with his 70 RBI? What better would we have than Jeff if he wasnt here?
Two, who plays right field if Jeff is dealt? Do we put Gregor Blanco in the position? He doesnt hit, either, and is worse than Jeff. What other options are there?
Also, Jeff is only .. 25. The guy has plenty of time to still improve to where he was in 2006/2007.
I wouldnt trade him. Too young. No replacement. Too many downsides. Few upsides to dealing him.
You mentioned that you thought you were wrong, Mark, and, personally, for the reasons I listed, I think you are. Then again, 76% of the readers polled so far side with you, so maybe I’m the wrong one.
Mitch C
Swaga1
June 12th, 2009
9:16 am
Get a life Joey, most of the blame goes to Jeff for getting the big head and thinking that he’s “the next big thing”. wow, how life humbles you after a while. y do u want pendleton to be fired and not the person who is actually responsible for making himself better, afterall, he is getting paid millions of dollars to hit.
Chris
June 12th, 2009
9:18 am
I’d rather the Braves actually send him down to the minors, not a casino weekend. Give him 3-4 weeks in Mississippi and see if things turn around. He doesn’t need to go to Gwinnett. It’s basically the same fans, and it will be the same pressure.
He has no trade value right now, Boston wasn’t impressed. Let him get away from things for a few weeks. Benching him would be a solution, but it doesn’t solve the fact he needs to see pitching in order to improve.
Patriot02
June 12th, 2009
9:18 am
I do not agree that Jeff Francouer should be traded. I have been involved in Gwinnett athletics for over 15 years and I watched Jeff throughout his high school career. Jeff is a fighter and I truly feel that he will be successful. He is not the only one struggling under the guidance of Terry Pendleton. Pendleton was great in his time, but pitchers and pitches have changed, the Braves need to adapt and hire someone who can motivate and instruct the hitters on how to adjust to the ways. Jeff never gave up on anything and I don’t think we as Brave’s fans should give up on him. He is still a kid and he will fix this with the right instruction and our support.
Rafael Belliard juiced, and you know it (formerly the poster known as AJC)
June 12th, 2009
9:19 am
“Should the Braves deal everyone on the team”
Mark O’Bradley,
I’m thinkin’ yes.
And here’s why,,,,
Leonard Nimoy’s Ballad of Bilbo Baggins:
In the middle of the earth in the land of the Shire
lives a brave little hobbit whom we all admire.
With his long wooden pipe,
fuzzy, woolly toes,
he lives in a hobbit-hole and everybody knows him
Bilbo! Bilbo! Bilbo Baggins
He’s only three feet tall
Bilbo! Bilbo! Bilbo Baggins
The bravest little hobbit of them all
Now hobbits are a peace-lovin’ folks you know
They don’t like to hurry and they take things slow
They don’t like to travel away from home
They just want to eat and be left alone
But one day Bilbo was asked to go
on a big adventure to the caves below,
to help some dwarves get back their gold
that was stolen by a dragon in the days of old.
Bilbo! Bilbo! Bilbo Baggins
He’s only three feet tall
Bilbo! Bilbo! Bilbo Baggins
The bravest little hobbit of them all
Well he fought with the goblins!
He battled a troll!!
He riddled with Gollum!!!
A magic ring he stole!!!!
He was chased by wolves!!!!!
Lost in the forest!!!!!!
Escaped in a barrel from the elf-king’s halls!!!!!!!
Bilbo! Bilbo! Bilbo Baggins
The bravest little hobbit of them all
Now he’s back in his hole in the land of the Shire,
that brave little hobbit whom we all admire,
just a-sittin’ on a treasure of silver and gold
a-puffin’ on his pipe in his hobbit-hole.
Bilbo! Bilbo! Bilbo Baggins
He’s only three feet tall
Bilbo! Bilbo! Bilbo Baggins
The bravest little hobbit of them all
Keeping It Real
June 12th, 2009
9:21 am
The only hitters on the team are Chipper,McCann,Escobar, McLouth and Anderson. TP cannot make the other guys hit nor can their Daddys. Triple A talent is what it is. The players got to this point on their own and not by TP’s coaching. They cannot get any better. Since Frenchy is not bringing the fans in, he is a liability to the Braves and not an asset. It would be better for him to change venues and become a star somewhere else like so many former Braves have done in the past.
wareagle
June 12th, 2009
9:26 am
i wouldn’t make a trade unless it improves the team.
Billball
June 12th, 2009
9:27 am
Again, this is a very good ball player we are giving up on. Again, why continue to protect TP? The Braves develop talent and when they get here, they seldon improve with no professional coaching. Kelly Johnson could be a .300 heitter with the right direction, which would probably improve his boneheadedness in the field. If we are going to trade Francoeur, let’s trade Kelly Johnson and all of our home grown talent. Actually I wouldn’t mind having everyone on Pittsburgh’s roster.
Joe Public
June 12th, 2009
9:27 am
Keep Frenchy, dump Wren.
Rafael Belliard juiced, and you know it (formerly the poster known as AJC)
June 12th, 2009
9:28 am
Keeping it real,
If Chipper, McCann, Escobar, McLouth and Anderson are the only players on the Braves that can hit, than maybe they should start hitting. Or more importantly, get timely hits.
Susan
June 12th, 2009
9:32 am
I don’t think you should trade Jeff. He is not the only one in the lineup who is having problems. I think you need to get rid of TP…he is not a hitting coach. Remember their was a time that the “new and upcoming pitchers” could not relate to Leo as their pitching coach. Chipper and McCann use their dad as their hitting coach when they have problems should tell you something as well….why can’t Frenchy go to someone else for help?
When players cannot relate to a coach they don’t produce. It’s just like with teachers, if a student cannot connect with their teacher, they will struggle in that subject.
I don’t think much of FW either…he is ruining the Braves reputation in the league.
I don’t understand the Glavine thing either. So what if he wasn’t throwing hard…you don’t have to be a fast throwing pitcher to get players out. They put Smoltz in the bullpen what not Glavine…could not hurt considering we got pitchers in there that cannot get outs with “their hard throwing” stuff.
If the Braves do trade Jeff, hope he goes to Boston Red Sox and so does Glavine and the Braves can watch baseball again in October while the Sox win another World Series with three former Braves…Frenchy, Glavine and Smoltz.
ryan
June 12th, 2009
9:34 am
Wren is the worst GM in baseball. Get rid of that loser and send Terry Pendleton with him. Keep Frenchy.
Chris
June 12th, 2009
9:34 am
I think the common denominator is TERRY PENDLETON. Does no one remember that the Braves couldn’t win a World Series until they got rid of him? Now the Braves can’t win with him back in the dugout. Pendleton is too self-absorbed and needs to move on. Bobby is loyal, but he needs to find a selfless hitting coach; someone like Don Mattingly. Look what his style has done for the LA Dodgers.
The_Superhoo (Montana by way of Virginia)
June 12th, 2009
9:37 am
trade Frenchy to Miami for Uggla, move KJ to the outfield.
NORRIS
June 12th, 2009
9:37 am
When the whole team struggles you need to look at the coaching. Terry Pendleton is the problem.
Andrew Jones left us with problems and carried them over with him to L.A. But now look at him. He is showing signs of being a descent player again.
Frenchy had problems last year and had to go to the minor leagues to get some coaching.
Frenchy is struggling…yes. But when everyone is also then its a bigger problem.
1eyedJack
June 12th, 2009
9:39 am
Hitting coaches are a dime a dozen.
Potential 5 tool outfielders are not.
TP failed with Andruw, TP has failed with Frenchy, and to some extent TP has failed with KJ, Prado, Norton, etc, who all seem to be backsliding.
Maybe the problem is that we need to trade TP.
Reebok
June 12th, 2009
9:39 am
Nobody on the Braves’ roster can hit except Chipper, and he’s hurt 40% of the time. Nobody on the Braves agonizes over losses or plays with passion (although Bobby Cox-coached teams never play with passion). Whether Jeff Francouer stays or goes is irrelevant…a Braves team that couldn’t get past the first round of the playoffs with 4 future Hall of Famers on the roster is certainly not going to be any better than .500 with the average talent populating the roster now.
Noway
June 12th, 2009
9:39 am
Sorry but I disagree…I think Jeff is over reaching and so are the fans. Eventually with patience and trust in one another, Jeff can find his stake in Atlanta and it will feel like home.
SimpleDawg
June 12th, 2009
9:40 am
OK, here’s the line on Frenchy….he’s a reincarnation of Andruw at the plate. Great bat speed, plenty of power, decent foot speed…no regard for the strike zone, too intent on pulling every pitch, impatient, unwilling to adjust his approach based upon what opposing pitchers are doing to get him out, not a thinking hitter – just blind, raw, physicality unleashed without thought or recognition. Swings at too many bad pitches, can’t hit pitches low and away, even in the strike zone because he puts a pull swing on a pitch that should be hit to right field….will not, ‘just get a hit’. He needs to focus more on hitting the ball where it’s pitched….take a walk when you’re not getting strikes to swing at….be more of a student of the game and not just a thrashing brute.
Ted Williams said that the way he hit .406 was that he didn’t swing at a pitch he either wasn’t looking for or wasn’t sure he could put in play. In other words, he didn’t just swing because the ball had been thrown.
OBP may never be put on the score board, but it is an indicator of how professional the hitter is in his approach to hitting. Anyone who doesn’t think about getting on base first and scoring after that isn’t very smart. The only way to score from home plate is to hit the ball over the fence; however, once on base, there are multiple ways to score…but you can’t score by making outs.
Joe T
June 12th, 2009
9:40 am
From what I hear, Jeff has gone to TP prior to this last winter, obviously with limited success. I think Jeff was trying something different with another hitting coach and his intent was not to ignore TP. Again, these are my ideas. I am not a Jeff appologist and I do think a new uniform will take a lot of pressure off of him. He definitely needs to clear his head and maybe Mac is right. Does anyone have the number to Smoltz’s shrik? In any event, if we trade him (which about 98% of the people are calling for, including myself) we are not going to get much for him.
Reality Time
June 12th, 2009
9:41 am
Unfortunately I do think it is time to trade Francoeur. I believe that his advisers did him a great disservice when they advised him to reject the offer made to him by the Braves, around the same time that Brian McCann signed his deal, and roll the dice as to his future market value. When they did that a great amount of pressure was put on a young man to excel each and every game to make his market value go up. That type of pressure can play havoc with your head, and quite frankly most young people his age are not equipped to deal with it. I believe that signing early, and basically setting up his family for life, took pressure off Brian McCann and allowed him to relax and just play baseball, whereas Jeff Francouer sees every strikeout or error as money flying out of his pocket. There is truth behind the old saying “a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.” Too bad it had to happen this way. I hope he can get a fresh start somewhere else and be able to enjoy playing baseball again.
*TP DISCUSSION*
June 12th, 2009
9:42 am
The Braves have to be concerned right now about canning Pendelton, because this would be the 2nd ax-job of a former Braves star in 2 weeks. But how do you judge the success of a hitting coach? Thaink about that, what happens next season if the Falcons come out and have the worst offense in the NFC after 7 games? I don’t think it would take long to pull the trigger on that on. Very repsectable player, probably a better career hitter than 97% of the team, but that does not mean he is not the problem.
NORRIS
June 12th, 2009
9:42 am
at this point we need somebody who can just get on base.
NC Braves Fan
June 12th, 2009
9:43 am
I would remind the Pendleton bashers that Andruw Jones is a fourth outfielder in Texas who suddenly isn’t hitting much – and is working with Jaramillo on a daily basis. He also had a year with Torre in LA and I think we all remember how that turned out.
JK
June 12th, 2009
9:43 am
Look at the roster and their lineup! Its not Pendleton’s fault. They spent money on pitching and only have 2 Major League hitters – Chipper & McCann. Maybe McClouth will make it 3. Kelly Johnson, Matt Diaz etc…wouldn’t make 80% of other teams rosters. They have to keep teams under 3 runs every game to have a chance. That’s tough way ti go through a season
SimpleDawg
June 12th, 2009
9:44 am
Oh, and by the way….trading Frenchy isn’t a profitable option. Try working on his weaknesses and letting him sit until he begins to change his approach at the plate. Maybe a fresh voice to instruct him will help…
RK
June 12th, 2009
9:44 am
Yes, hitting coaches are a dime a dozen because they aren’t that important. TP isn’t up there swinging at every pitch. Unless TP is telling him “hey, go up there and swing at anything you want”, it isn’t his fault.
This was Francouer’s last chance. It isn’t working out. The only solution is to trade him, and hope that the change in scenery changes his career.
NORRIS
June 12th, 2009
9:46 am
well then why do all the players that have problems have to go outside the organization to get help. The word is that Chipper has started working with francoeur some of late. Also if you notice the last few days he has actually hit the ball hard it just hasnt fallen for him.
One in particular was a rocket to center that MCcutchen caught on the track. Mccutchen is the fastest man in the majors now. I do not beleive thhat anybody else would have caught that ball.
the next day francoeur had 2 hits. On that same day nobody else had any. so chipper may be helping here.?????????
billy
June 12th, 2009
9:48 am
Mark, I agree with you on Frenchy and I as well think he will be better off somewhere else. But one other factor that seems to be affecting Braves in general…HITTING! Maybe Frenchy was not too far off by going to Texas. Maybe we need to access our present hitting coach. He failed with AJ and now with Frenchy, but in reality sparodic hitting does not justify his present position. Maybe two changes are in the offering.
Scoob
June 12th, 2009
9:48 am
The problem for Francouer is the expectations(and the Ks). But seriously, compare him and Kelly Johnson. –
Francouer – Career BA .266; 34 HR, 201 RBI, 273 Ks(Since 2007- Kelly’s first full season)
Johnson – Career BA .269; 33 HR, 156 RBI, 265 Ks(Since 2007)
Not a whole lot different for these 2. But there aren’t any articles calling for KJ to get traded. By the way, I wouldn’t lose any sleep over trading either of these guys, but I do feel bad for Francouer for the bias…
Kendawg
June 12th, 2009
9:50 am
Francouer has the potential to be a fairly good hitter. I think it’s pretty obvious from the entire struggling Braves lineup(with the exception of Chipper and McCann) that the problem is the hitting coach. The Braves currently don’t have one. The Braves need to forget about loyalty and Bobby’s “good ole boy” method of hiring coaches and get a hitting coach who could actually help the team. I keep hearing that this is a business. Well, run it like a business. Accept nothing less than a quest for excellence.
JimC
June 12th, 2009
9:50 am
Just another brief overpaid flash-in-the-pan, then a fizzle. Time for Francoeur to go.
Deena
June 12th, 2009
9:50 am
Well duh. Of course they SHOULD trade Francoeur but they can’t because they won’t get anything (AKA NOTHING) in return. And who wants him? Really?
tenn.DAWG
June 12th, 2009
9:52 am
Your right,he’s not worth a dime right now,send him to AAA,give him one last shot.Hopefully playing in front of his friends and family in his own back yard will help him in some way.Bobby should be careful,his loyalty to JF may net him a ticket out of town.
Greg
June 12th, 2009
9:52 am
It’s really not that complicated. Francoeur doesn’t walk. Which means he swings at whatever they throw up there. Major League pitchers are very good, and very smart. If you let them know in advance that you will swing at whatever they throw, you will not see good pitches to hit. We have the entire history of Major League Baseball to back this up. Francouer has ZERO trade value because everyone in the league knows he is an undisciplined hacker with ZERO command of the strike zone. The only option is to bench him. He has to grow up, and learn to approach each at-bat like a professional in order to earn a starting job again. Just trotting him out there each day will not solve the problem.
Tom
June 12th, 2009
9:52 am
Either Frenchy is the most stubborn person on earth, totally confused, or just not able to distinguish the strike zone. Got two hits yesterday then with the tying run on second he swings at a ball in the dirt to get behind in the count. Then takes an outside pitch out of the strike zone and tries to pull it and ground out to short. Same scene over and over again. Is there any coaching going on? I really want him to do well, as I think most of Atlanta does, but he is so frustrating to watch. Give him the rest of the year and hopefully he can figure out or never will in Atlanta. Yost , Freddie, Pat Corrales all coached in Braves Glory years and were managers or became managers. I do not hear anyone talk about the current coaching staff in any great manner.
Rafael Belliard juiced, and you know it (formerly the poster known as AJC)
June 12th, 2009
9:53 am
THE BIG PICTURE, FOLKS
Terry Pendleton job as the batting coach is way overrated…These players know how to hit, but due to either not listening to good advice, being lazy, or just not being able to handle the pressure of hitting in the big leagues, they’re not even close to getting the job done as a team…A decent batting average doesn’t mean squat (from the TEAM standpoint), if your not getting clutch hits.
Pendleton as I’ve said before, is the manager in-waiting, and it’s time for him to be the manager. That’ll be the true judge of wheather Terry is a good or not so good coach in my opinion. The current group of players, sans the pitching staff for some reason, aren’t productive for Bobby, and the fans don’t deserve bad baseball..I love Bobby, but it’s time for new leadership.
FIRE COX!!!
June 12th, 2009
9:54 am
PLEASE add Garret Anderson in that trade!!!
RK
June 12th, 2009
9:54 am
JimC: yup, a flash in the pan. After the first half-season when he was great, the rest of MLB figured him out, and he can’t adjust.
Heresy Smith
June 12th, 2009
9:55 am
I must go under an assumed name for this controversial post.
Do you know which third baseman has the worst fielding percentage in Major League Baseball?
Hint: Limited range prevents his having more errors. It may be time to move him to first base. Wait! Our first baseman has the best fielding percentage in the Majors. This is a dilemma!
dap01
June 12th, 2009
9:55 am
What Jeff doesn’t realize is that if he goes to another organization, he will not be played 162 games a year while he is terrible. They will send him to AAA like he deserves. Why is he above actually having to learn how to play.
He does not even hustle anymore. Notice the baserunning the past couple of games. He never has an idea of the the game situation during an abat. He is probably the worst stolen base threat in the major leagues.
The Braves have many offensive problems and JF is the poster child.
Wren? You're kidding, right?
June 12th, 2009
9:56 am
Yeah, we need to fire Frank. All he’s done is bring us Jair, Lowe, Vasquez, Kotchmann (a 300 hitter) Soriano, McLouth ( an upgrade of 50 points of avg, w/ no dropoff defensively) insured Chipper and Mac stay in the fold. You folks are morons. Kotch’ll help when he’s back, and we have to, HAVE TO find someone to hit in RF and hope Kelly comes out of his every single year slump. Why not stick Diaz out in RF and leave him there? Why platoon two guys in LF who are each hitting 270-280 and keep a guy in RF everyday who is hitting 240? I agree with the blogger who feels French would be well served being sent to Miss. for more than three days. Let Wellman help him, maybe a month or so, see what happens, then let him come to AAA for a few weeks. If it fails, then let him go. We can’t keep wasting these excellent starts by our pitchers and we can’t keep having 1 or 2 automatic outs in our starting 8.
Friday
June 12th, 2009
9:58 am
The issue that I see with JF is that the city of Atlanta made him out to be more than he really is. When he broke into the show he was on fire. Because of this we have come to believe that JF is a great ball player. He is not and will never be anything more than average. Yes, he has a good arm for right field but he will never be more than a .250 hitter that will give you 20+ HR’s and 70 or so RBI’s. We have got to come to grips with this and realize he is what he is. The sooner we do that the sooner we can stop expecting him to save the Braves.
rlinaug
June 12th, 2009
9:58 am
It’s not hat he’s just not producing at the plate, he’s a liability. He makes outs on bad pitches, he doesn’t hit behind the runner, he hits into double plays with predictable regularity. He’s been in the bigs, what five years, and he looks like he’s never been coached. You know, if he’d learn not to swing at pitches well outside the strike zone, learn to hit behind the runner–basically, if he’d learn to treat an at bat the way fundamentally sound professional hitters treat their at bats, he’d be so much better.
stop swinging at the first pitch!
June 12th, 2009
9:59 am
Enough about Frenchy, until he stops swinging at the first pitch, which is usually out of the strike zone when he’s up, he has no chance.
Now, let’s find someone to let us have a real center for J Smoove and move Horford to 4, which is where he should be…oh, wait, that’s tomorrow. Sorry
swing away, dude
June 12th, 2009
9:59 am
Sooner or later the pitcher’s going to make a mistake and Frenchy’s gonna nail that first pitch!
fieldofdreams
June 12th, 2009
10:00 am
Gosh, yes. The only reason, in my opinion, he’s still in the line-up is to preserve whatever trade value he has, which isn’t going to be much. His career is over. You might be able to get a couple of minor leaguers, that’s all. The roster is like a stock portfolio. A couple of losers can bring the whole thing down. Unfortunately, Frenchy, and KJ, have handcuffed the Braves for three years now. Brad Hawpe would look great wearing the Tomahawk; when / if Huddy gets back, and Hanson establishes himself as a starter, we could package Vasquez, Frenchy, and KJ to Colorado for Hawpe.
dap01
June 12th, 2009
10:00 am
SCOOB: Compare the number of at bats.
Dawg A
June 12th, 2009
10:00 am
YES YES YES and take Cox,Wren and T.P. with him. But T.P. would have to go somewhere else because Frenchy would use another hitting coach. Please Braves ………… it’s time to start over!!!! Top to Bottom!
Rafael Belliard juiced, and you know it (formerly the poster known as AJC)
June 12th, 2009
10:00 am
Wren is not the problem…The problem, is the Braves position players, not trying smart enough.
Mark Bradley
June 12th, 2009
10:00 am
I’m beginning to think he’s closer to a .260 singles hitter than the .280/30/100 man we all envisioned.
Herschel Talker
June 12th, 2009
10:02 am
Mark – I agree in principle that he should be traded. But what are we really going to get for him? Unless we bribe some other GM, we’re probably looking at a mediocre prospect or a mediocre middle reliever.
timthebrave
June 12th, 2009
10:02 am
I think he once again will be a productive hitter. A .250 average with 11 hr is better than any other outfielder we got waiting in the wings and to trade him away for a bag of balls will not help this team be better. I have a bad feeling that he will be another Jermaine Dye we’re we wish we would have been patient. I can see it now, everyone will be complaining about why o why did we trade him 3 years ago.
Johan
June 12th, 2009
10:02 am
Is this the same Mark Bradley who ripped Braves fans last year for being impatient and combative towards Francoeur?
Fascinating.
Rafael Belliard juiced, and you know it (formerly the poster known as AJC)
June 12th, 2009
10:02 am
MB,
You like the Leonard Nimoy post?
dap01
June 12th, 2009
10:03 am
JF’s trade value is absolutely nothing!
RK
June 12th, 2009
10:03 am
Wow, Frenchy swings at the first pitch 47% of the time. In comparison, Chipper does 32% (career numbers).
Is it really that hard to let the first pitch go?
Keeping It Real
June 12th, 2009
10:04 am
I cannot believe the TP cop out excuses you guys give for this anemic hitting team. TP cannot step into the box and face sinkers, changeups, curves and 95 mph plus fast balls. Neither can you guys. I wonder how many of the current Braves could start for other teams.
I like TP as he has fire in his gut and he knows how to win. I remember him walking off the field in disgust when the Braves did not retaliate when Deion Sanders got plunked with a pitch. No hitting coach can make this team hit any better than they are now. They will get paid high salaries no matter how they perform. That’s the problem. They have no incentive.
Frenchy is a good player. The mistake he made is playing in front of the home folks whose expectations saw him as being the next Al Kaline. The media made him into a super star before he was one.