Why the Atlanta Hawks are still wishing upon a star
The annual chorus is in fine voice. “The Hawks,” goes the full-throated refrain, “won’t get any better until they find a superstar [meaning LeBron James or Kobe Bryant] or a true center [like Dwight Howard].”
And there’s no rebuttal. Sure, the Hawks would be better with LeBron/Kobe/Dwight. Any team would. But the cold truth is that the Hawks won’t find such a transcendent talent unless Dame Fortune smiles an outrageous smile. That’s the way of the NBA.
“You don’t trade for superstars,” says Rick Sund, the Hawks’ general manager. “You draft them.”
The lottery is, by design and definition, pure luck. The Hawks were participants in 2003 (LeBron’s year, when their No. 8 pick was made by Milwaukee as part of the Glenn Robinson trade) and 2004 (Dwight’s year, when they settled for Josh Childress with the sixth pick), and both times went unblessed by the ping-pong balls. There’s no strategy involved. It’s the bounce of ball in a hopper.
A little exercise: Take one player – any one, from Josh Smith to Speedy Claxton – off the Hawks and replace him with LeBron/Kobe/Dwight. Know where the Hawks would be? Preparing for Game 1 of the NBA finals. This is a very good team that lacks only one great player, but that’s a massive lack.
We tire of the NBA’s blather about its stars, but nobody can deny that it’s a star’s game. And stars are hard to get. Of the 15 men who comprised the 2009 All-NBA teams, 13 were top 10 draftees – the exceptions are Kobe Bryant, taken No. 13 when high schoolers weren’t yet the rage, and Tony Parker, who arrived from France as the 28th pick in 2001 – and 10 went in the top five.
Loading ...Only three of the 15 have changed teams since their NBA debuts. (The three: Shaquille O’Neal, Pau Gasol and Chauncey Billups.) Moral of our story: If you find a star, you keep him. And if you have a chance at one and you whiff … well, you wind up being the Hawks, forever chasing the game.
They couldn’t have had James in 2003 or Howard in 2004 because they didn’t win the lottery. But they had a shot at Chris Paul (second team All-NBA) in 2005, and they had another at Brandon Roy (also second team) the next year. To harp on those dire drafts is to flog a horse deader than Man ’o War, but the Hawks haven’t yet — and might never — outrun those lapses.
They could have had a backcourt of Paul and Joe Johnson way back in 2005. No, they wouldn’t have landed in the 2007 lottery and wouldn’t have Al Horford, but they’d have made the Eastern Conference finals by now and still had Mike Bibby’s money to spend on a big man.
Billy Knight deserves credit for building a 69-loss roster into a robust entity, but the best player he acquired — Johnson — hasn’t made the All-NBA team. Twice Knight had the opening to draft a star, and twice he took a guy named Williams. (Though not, alas, Deron Williams.) And even now, as the Hawks come off their finest season in a decade and Sund seeks to model his club after the starless 2003-2004 Pistons, those failures are the horse that keeps on dying.
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178 comments Add your comment
Gravy Train
June 1st, 2009
11:35 pm
The solution is simple: Get Birdman from Denver and draft a guard with speed who can play D and pop treys. Birdman can shut down the paint with the help of Horford and Smith. Then LeBron and such, doesn’t get a free pass through the lane. A PG who can play tight D and get out and run could really open things up. Too bad Iverson carries so much baggage with a big price tag. Bibby has to go. No D and no wheels is a liability in today’s NBA.
UGA
June 1st, 2009
11:38 pm
And with the ownership and GM , that’s what makes the job Woodson did and this team somewhat remarkable……and some of those guys are not “superstars”, but ESPN sure makes them out to be one
rms
June 1st, 2009
11:39 pm
The only legit Superstar you listed up there is D-Wade. lets not forget, they won only 15 last year and this year they won like 43 games. It didnt take them 6 years to do it. They did it in a year. None of that crap about “Well, last year we won 15, and then after that we won 19, then after that 25, then 30, then 37, now we won 43. So you see we have gotten better every year”. Those guys we that young talent went from 15 games to 4o+ wins and gave the 4th seed Hawks a run for their money almost single handely by one guy. Dwayne Wade-a REAL SUPERSTAR!!
Ted Striker
June 1st, 2009
11:39 pm
Mark — I’ve been cleaning out the sock drawer. (It’s a big drawer). But I always catch up on your columns.
niremetal
June 1st, 2009
11:40 pm
kirkinga,
You hit the nail on the head re: the Marvin selection.
ed
June 1st, 2009
11:41 pm
mark,
they need someone else who can help take the scoring load off of joe in the halfcourt offense score not necessarily a superstar, preferably at the small forward or point guard position. Not to mention having josh childress next year would help
The Truth
June 1st, 2009
11:44 pm
Ted Striker
Name me the last NBA championship team who won the title with the 10th or worst center? Yes you can compensate with better rating starters but that can only take you so far during the regular season. During the playoffs, it’s all about matchups.
GT
June 1st, 2009
11:49 pm
Not sure I agree though I can see where you are coming from. I want to hold judgment until they stop getting better ever year. You are saying it won’t happen and I am saying you may be right but as long as they are improving which I guess their season record and second round in the playoffs would indicate they are I am giving them some room. I have to admit there is nothing in their management resumes that would separate them from the pack. You might say it is luck of the draw but LA and Orlando have both been to the finals in recent years with different players but the same management a lot like the Braves use to do.. But you have to be honest this last year surprise all of us so maybe we owe them a little respect anyway and it is fun watching long shots beat the odds.
ed
June 1st, 2009
11:51 pm
marvin williams wasn’t a bad pick, shelden williams over brandon roy was the miss. what the hawks need is someone that can score either at the small forward or point guard position, to take the pressure off of joe in the hawks half-court offense. The return of Josh Childress wouldn’t hurt either.
Rufus1
June 1st, 2009
11:54 pm
Mark
The best JSmooth will ever be is KENYON MARTIN. He has no offensive skill set and he is 60% from the line, 29% from 3. He needs a uptempo PG(i.e,Jason Kidd)just like KENYON. Marvin has the potenial to be a 240lb Rashard Lewis, who can rebound and defend. Marvins Skill set works in any offense. The moment we get a coach with an offense system Josh’s stats will look just Kenyon,s(11pts and 6rbs) and just like denver WE OVER PAID!!!
D-Nice
June 2nd, 2009
12:06 am
The Hawks were short a point guard but Billy said he liked the “Potential” of Marvin Williams. Dude can somebody tell him CP3 played 2 years in college versus one for Williams and was he POY in ACC and the exact position they needed not some untapped potential that still has not been tapped. I could have been a scientist but its still untapped at 33 years old (LMAO). Then tell me who was going to draft Shelden Williams especially when everyone said Brandon Roy was the truth including me. We could have saved the money we spent on JJ, which is another story in itself. Phoenix was not going to resign him, too much money so wait and keep Diaw and your draft pick and you still could have gotten Roy and JJ. Imagine (CP3, JJ, Roy, J Smith, Zaza (prob dont get Horford). Thats a pretty impressive squad there.
Ted Striker
June 2nd, 2009
12:47 am
Truth — Elden Campbell at center might have struck fear against high school players, but never in the NBA. Yet, his team won it all. It’s a team sport, my brother.
Mitun
June 2nd, 2009
12:59 am
I think we do good this year if we keep Bibby, Zaza and Flip but get rid of Marvin for a decent backup.
The Truth
June 2nd, 2009
1:43 am
Ted Striker
If you are referring to the Detroit Piston 2004 Championship in which the Piston starters consisted of:
Chaunncey Billups – PG
Richard Hamilton – SG
Tayshaun Prince – SF
Rasheed Wallace – PF
Ben Wallace – C
Elden Campbell was the backup center on that team. The starter, Ben Wallace was one of the elite centers in the league at the time. However, I will agree it takes a team to win a championship. But that eventual championship team is the creme of the crop.
HawkKingBibby
June 2nd, 2009
2:00 am
Some of those awards are BS anyhow. You cant tell me that Joe hasnt had some years here where he could have been 2nd team nba but he wasnt because he is on the HAWKS. Brandon Roy hasnt done anything better than Joe Johnson and Roy is on a team with real bigs.
BrittishAnger
June 2nd, 2009
2:02 am
Please you guys, give up on J-Chill ever coming back…he’s got no reason to until his Olympiakos contract ends. He’s only 10 Million Euro rich at this point, with another 20 million euro coming to him if he sticks around, and that team went to the FIBA championships and the Greek national championships this year. That team makes a small tweak to fight against Batiste’s inside presence, they’re FIBA champs guaranteed. Olympiakos has a better chance of getting Chris Andersen to play with J-Chill that we have in bringing him back before 2010. Give it up.
HawkKingBibby
June 2nd, 2009
2:08 am
90% OF THE LEAGUE WOULD HAVE TAKEN MARV #2. There were some teams who would have taken him #1. I can tell you flat out why Billy took Shel #5. Woody wanted a veteran pg and they knew they could get a vet pg to start cheaper than they could get a starting center in FA. Shelden was the best big man in college and they thought he could play pf/c. The problem was even tough he had the physical stature to be a Dale Davis like banger, he didnt have the talent or the heart.
MannyT
June 2nd, 2009
2:26 am
While they may have been slow to develop, that 2003-4 Pistons team had a #3 pick (Billups), a #4 pick (R. Wallace), and a #7 pick (Hamilton). They had the draft pedigree, BUT none of them found success with the team that drafted them.
Does that mean that the Mark Bradley view of the world for Rick Sund to rebuild is with top ten drafted players that don’t have success with their original teams?
If you want to throw some luck into all of this, recall that in 2005 when the Hawks drafted Marvin, they had the worst record. If the ping pong balls fall to form, we might have picked up Andrew Bogut. Not that he is a star, but he would have put to rest questions of needing a starting center. Once that was addressed, it is easier to say that we could have picked up the best player available in future drafts…i.e. no Shelden, maybe Brandon.
While it is easy to say, we should have done better with top 5 picks, I think most of you would accept this team of players drafted later than Kobe, no more than 1 per year for last 10 years.
1999 – Ron Artest – 16th
2000 – Michael Redd – 43rd
2001 – Mehmet Okur – 38th (Would have taken Parker, but moved on as he was mentioned in Bradley’s opening. Needed a center, so Arneas gets snub–but he qualifies for the team)
2002 – Carlos Boozer – 34th
2003 – Mo Williams – 47th
2004 – Kevin Martin – 26th
2005 – Danny Granger – 17th
2006 – Rajon Rondo – 21st
2007 – Glen Davis – 35th
2008 – Courtney Lee – 22nd
Because there are only 10 there, I can still pick up some free agents. Given the low draft value used to make this team, I will fill it out with some undrafted players.
1999 – Chris Andersen
2001 – Andres Nocioni
2002 – Udonis Haslem
2005 – Jose Calderon & Kelenna Azubuike
I am confident that my rejects would make the playoffs. They could have a shot at a title with the right coach. How about one that was a reject as a coach…some CBA & foreign coaching jobs before he could even get a shot as an NBA head coach…maybe that Phil Jackson can do something for my squad.
BWAF
Ted Striker
June 2nd, 2009
4:32 am
Truth: Your NBA knowledge likely triumphs mine. That said, Wallace was not a true center during the year you reference. Wallace alternated between power forward and center. The aforementioned Campbell played 65 games at center, starting at least 27, fairly integral.
Your original post read “here are 11 centers that are better than Horford right now: Dwight Howard, Yao Ming, Shaquille O’Neal, Al Jefferson, Marcus Camby, Pau Gasol, Nene, Chris Bosh, Brook Lopez, Tim Duncan, Amare Stoudemire.” I don’t necessarily agree with that but I still say it’s not necessary to have a “top 10” center to win a championship.
Since you didn’t like the Elgin Campell example, here are a few more recents: Kendrick Perkins of the Celtics (2008 champs), Matt Bonner of the Spurs (68 games for the 2007 champs) Alonzo Mourning (65 games for the ‘06 champs).
We probably agree on far more than we’d ever disagree on. I’m all for getting the creme of the crop, as it’s possible.
On your side, I am,
Ted Striker
bibz
June 2nd, 2009
5:56 am
can’t we get someone like kaman or camby?they’re gonna be loaded frontcourt bc theyll gonna pick griffin. what do u think?
Nef
June 2nd, 2009
6:31 am
Uhh… news flash, that money that Bibby will be getting is the same amount that we would use for CP3. I think we should draft a true big man and move Al back to his reg. position at PF. Get Smoove a solid mid-range game (like it or not the guy’s shooting is getting better) and put him back at SF. Bring back Flip, Zaza, Marvin, and Bibby. Bibby is a must, without him nobody uses there talent. Have Joe, Bibby and Flip rotate while AC progresses. Smith at SF with Marvin coming off the bench. Al at the 4 and Solo from the bench. Either Zaza or the rookie starts or trade the picks for another decent Center. There’s your core while you find or raise more talent.
JustAThought
June 2nd, 2009
6:40 am
Just like I’ve said……………In a free fall, with no life rope or chance.
Stan
June 2nd, 2009
7:00 am
The Cavs really played a winning hand when they got King James, Lebron James; a home grown – what a play.
The Hawks should have played such a move, then they would have had, The High Priest, Dwight Howard; a home grown. It should have happened.
J
June 2nd, 2009
8:29 am
Liked the article … it would be nice to have a super star, but after seeing Lebron get demolished by the Magic, I’ll take my chances with the current team we have (a current HEALTHY team)
Matt
June 2nd, 2009
8:53 am
You know, Shelden William was a bad pick and we all know it, but this is the same organization that chose Priest Lauderdale as well. The idea was that he was a big guy (literally) that had dominated in the paint for rebounds in college and all indications (at least in the Hawks’ mind) was that it would happen in the NBA.
Glenn
June 2nd, 2009
8:56 am
Joe Johnson isn’t getting it done . I would ditch him & Mike Bibby . We can get someone cheaper & more effective in both those positions . Maybe we can get either Rayfur Austin or Jamier Nelson from the Magic . I think I would rather have Von Wafer than Joe Johnson . Yes after his playoff performance that is how down I am on Joe Johnson .
PMC
June 2nd, 2009
8:59 am
Oh hey, let me just pluck a superstar off this superstar tree here.
Really… the Hawks need a superstar…. GM.
Jim
June 2nd, 2009
8:59 am
What happened in drafts past are done-can’t be changed. What can be changed is roster and coach. If we keep Woody and Bibby we will be doing this next year. We have a front line that is 22-22-23 years old and got to top 8 teams this year with a coach that doesn’t use these guys at all. Maybe we have a star here but don’t know it because the entire offense is Joe & Bibby shooting jump shots. Bring in new coach, somebody like Joel Prizbilla to help in the paint, and find a point guard that can push the ball up the court.
PMC
June 2nd, 2009
9:00 am
They need deep pocketed superstar ownership from 1 figure too.
oh and I need 10 million dollars.
Outhouse
June 2nd, 2009
9:26 am
When does footbal season start????
Mark Bradley
June 2nd, 2009
9:28 am
JIm, you’re right. You can’t undo what’s done. But that is, I submit, why the Hawks and Sund are facing an uphill fight to get from 47 wins to, say, 60. They missed their cue way back when.
Bigeasy830
June 2nd, 2009
9:36 am
Great article Mark Bradley, we do need a star and that Pistons team had 3 stars, Billups, Rasheed and Ben, The Hawks passed on two stars twice in CP3 and Deron, and then again in Roy. Both times everyone and their grandmother knew that those players were to best choice for the Hawks but BK screwed it up. I think some are down on al because of his play-offs performance but the man was playing on one leg. Al was the second best player in that draft and we got him at #3. I thought last year we had a chance a Carmelo, we could have sent them J-Smoove or Chill or Marvin and sent them someone else, but many fans disagreed. I still believe we can go out and get Allen Iverson, he give us exactly what we need and that is a player that can score at will. Yes, there is risk to getting AI but look at the potential in the reward.
esaun
June 2nd, 2009
9:42 am
cant believe this; hawks give up someone and get James or Kobe and there in the play-offs. The hawks are several pieces away. James could not do it with a better cast in Cleveland and Kobe has 2 marquee players this year. C. Paul talk needs to stop. Johnson signed with the Hawks because we were going to let him play pg, so drafting cp3 was out of the equation. I am not so sure cp3 would be an allstar if Hawks picked him. W e forget he had issues(nut punch) coming out of Wake and was not over dominate. cp3 went to the right situation, if playing for Woodson more than likely would of had a non-spectacular rookie season. Speedy also looked like a monster in the N.O. dribble penetrate offense. My only gripe with the hawks is the taking of Shelden over Roy. Roy/Joe backcourt would have been a nightmare for the NBA.
Jfreak
June 2nd, 2009
10:25 am
If you’re drafting 19th it means you had a good year but it also means you’ll probably be getting a role player not a star. The Hawks wont spend the money to get the super star and in my opinion they don’t have to. Two big issues to address:
First, we need someone to call our offensive plays. Woodson is terrible! He has no idea how to make adjustments that WORK.
Second, Josh Smith has got to mature. Right now he is a kid with no real idea how the GAME is played. He can jump, dunk, and block but his critical thinking skills are less than average.
I would really like to see Horford become a bigger part of the Hawks offense but all in all if they tweak this team “some” we have a shot??
Truth-serum
June 2nd, 2009
10:40 am
This is why I call Mark Bradley MO Dumb. It’s so crystal clear that NUMBER 1 ISSUE facing the Hawks is a CENTER!! We have a center that was brought here (ZA-please do your show dunk on my non athletic butt-ZA), who has melted down to reserve minutes off the bench. The power forward who we drafted as a power forward is now a power forward playing the center position. So Instead of addressing our number one issue, MO DUMB is behaving like a little kid making his Christmas list rather than an ADULT making a responsible decision. DUDE?!?!!
JUST FOR THE RECORD, BEING A TOP TEN REBOUNDER, DUMB AND MO DUMB (SUND AND BRADLEY), DOES NOT MAKE YOU A CENTER. WAS DENNIS RODMAN A CENTER? DAN ROUNDFIELD? KARL MALONE? CHARLES BARKLEY? NEITHER IS HORFORD. A CENTER PLAYS NATURALLY WITH HIS BACK TO THE BASKET AND HAS TERRITORIAL CONTROL. HORFORD NATURAL INSTINCTS ARE FACING THE BASKET AND YES HE IS WELL UNDERSIZED IN HEIGHT AND WEIGHT, WHICH FORCES HIM TO EXPEND EXCESSIVE AMOUNTS OF ENERGY TO DO WHAT A NATURAL CENTER WOULD DO ALMOST EFFORTLESSLY-(SEE TIM DUNCAN).
BECAUSE OF THIS HE WILL NEVER REACH HIS BEST AT THE CENTER POSITION… AND NEITHER WILL THE HAWKS.
CTrim
June 2nd, 2009
10:41 am
Trade Joe Johnson and next year’s #1 pick to Memphis for OJ Mayo and this year’s #2 pick overall. Draft Thabeet #2 and Ty Lawson, Maynor or Teague at #19. Resign Flip, Zaza and Bibby without overpaying (Bibby 8 million for 3 years max). Bring Childress home from his European field trip and match any contract for Marvin up to 9 million. Then wake me up because I know I’m dreaming.
Hawksgirl
June 2nd, 2009
10:50 am
Great article, we do need a superstar but not the kind everyone thinks we do. I believe we need a superstar bench! Our starting five can be changed around a bit with marv coming off the bench to make the second unit more effective and etc. As for jj, Nef please dont say that. I was at first dissappointed but he wasnt the only one being inconsistent. Yes he is the captain but he came through when we needed him. He tried in the cleveland series but he was getting triple teamed and i felt no one was rotating to him to get the ball out of his hands. We need another star beside jj to make things happen. But not at the expense of bibby or marv. I hope we get lucky in the trade because we need a derrick rose like player.
As far as j chill, let us hawksfans dream pleeeeease! I want him to come back desperately just like eveyone else. If he comes back i think he will be a problem solver with rebounding and defensive schemes.
Just my thoughts
Truth-serum
June 2nd, 2009
11:02 am
Truth-serum
May 27th, 2009
9:16 pm
TO MO DUMB BRADLEY DAVID ROBINSON WAS A CENTER WHEN DUNCAN ARRIVED AND HE WAS MOVED TO THE POWERFORWARD SPOT TO MAKE ROOM FOR DUNCAN AS A CENTER. YOUR COMMENT” Ilgauskas isn’t as good as Horford” MAY BE TRUE IN SOME SENSE BUT ILGAUSKAS IS A BETTER CENTER AND ALTERS SHOTS AND DEFENSE THE LOW POST MUCH BETTER AND IS A TERRIFIC FINISHER. I WILL ACKNOWLEDGE THAT HORFORD IS A BETTER POWER FOWARD THAN ILGAUSKAS BECAUSE OF HIS ATHLETICISM AND HIS MID RANGE SHOT.
2007-08 Boston Celtics- Kendrick Perkins/Kevin Garnett
2006-07 San Antonio Spurs Tim Duncan
2005-06 Miami Heat Shaquille O’Neal
2004-05 San Antonio Spurs Tim Duncan
2003-04 Detroit Pistons Rasheed Wallace
2002-03 San Antonio Spurs Tim Duncan
2001-02 Los Angeles Lakers Shaquille O’Neal
2000-01 Los Angeles Lakers Shaquille O’Neal
1999-00 Los Angeles Lakers Shaquille O’Neal
1998-99 San Antonio Spurs Tim Duncan
1997-98 Chicago Bulls Luc Longley
1996-97 Chicago Bulls Luc Longley
1995-96 Chicago Bulls Luc Longley
1994-95 Houston Rockets Hakeem Olajuwon
1993-94 Houston Rockets Hakeem Olajuwon
1992-93 Chicago Bulls Bill Cartwright
1991-92 Chicago Bulls Bill Cartwright
1990-91 Chicago Bulls Bill Cartwright
1989-90 Detroit Pistons Bill Laimbeer
1988-89 Detroit Pistons Bill Laimbeer
1987-88 Los Angeles Lakers Kareem Jabbar
1986-87 Los Angeles Lakers Kareem Jabbar
1985-86 Boston Celtics Robert Parish
1984-85 Los Angeles Lakers Kareem Jabbar
1983-84 Boston Celtics Robert Parish
1982-83 Philadelphia 76ers Moses Malone
1981-82 Los Angeles Lakers Kareem Jabbar
Just to enlighten you, have you looked at the hawks salary cap this up coming season? Did you look at who was undercontract and for how much? Why do I think you are just making blanket statement with no knowledge of facts? The Hawks are very capable of adding the two missing pieces and would have money left over. Im not going to waste my time dealing with your non issues while you try to fix what aint broke. You totally disregard the fact that you dont build a team around a back up center….Duh, what are you thinking? He wasnt brought here to be a back up and we dont need a slow ackward turnover machine picking his nose when we are trying to win a championship.
I Hope you enjoy this side bar:
NBA’s Top 10 Centers
By Terrell James
NBA Jun 18, 2007
Remember when big men ran the NBA? In the ’90s, superstars like Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, Young Shaq and Young ‘Zo had a huge impact on the League’s balance of power, and even second-tier guys like Rik Smits, Brad Daugherty, Vlade and Elden Campbell put in work.
Those days are ancient history. Now it’s the era of Jerome James and Adonal Foyle, where all 7-footers have to do is look like they can play and they’re almost guaranteed a fat contract. That’s why Greg Oden has been so hyped since early in his high school career; if he doesn’t usher in a new era of dominant centers, he’ll at least destroy most of the fives in the League on his way to multiple championships. Who will be Oden’s top comp? We ranked the League’s 10 best centers…
10. Zydrunas Ilgauskas — He’s slow and methodical, but Big Z gets the job done, as he showed throughout the Cavs’ run to the Finals. When he gets involved in the offense, he’s a decent scorer (11.9 ppg) who can draw the opposing big man away from the basket. Z is a great offensive rebounder (7.7 rpg) — you saw all the tip-ins — and a decent shot-blocker (1.3 bpg). Of course there’s that nonexistent quickness and lateral movement, which exposes him against bigs with any kind of speed, but Z has a niche and fills it well.
9. Mehmet Okur — Definitely not the prototypical center; he spends all game on the perimeter, but then again, he’s one of the best shooters in the League, so why not? Memo hit on 38 percent of his threes this year and put up 17.6 points a night while making his first All-Star team. His problems are: one, he’s a shameless gunner, and two, he gets destroyed on defense sometimes. While he was good against Yao at times in the Houston series, Tim Duncan took Memo to daycare.
8. Ben Wallace — He got off to a rough start in Chicago (stats-wise and the whole headband thing), but eventually got back to that blue-collar style fans and teammates know and love. As always, he was amongst the League leaders in boards (10.7 rpg) and blocks (2.0 bpg), and as always, the offensive game was somewhere between minimal and comical (6.4 ppg, 40 percent at the stripe).
7. Eddy Curry — The Knicks haven’t had a decent center since Marcus Camby, so Curry’s breakthrough ‘06-07 season was like winning the Lottery for Knicks fans. E-City came into training camp in the best shape of his career (all jokes aside) and it showed; he went for 19.5 points a night and was a borderline All-Star. Curry commands a double-team, but still turns the ball over too much trying to pass out of it, and his rebounding (7.0 rpg) could stand to improve.
6. Tyson Chandler — A prime example of how a change of scenery and system can change someone’s career. After five lackluster years in Chicago, Chandler made an impact right away with the Hornets, and was one of the NBA’s best rebounders (12.4 rpg). He also put up 9.5 points and 1.8 blocks and shot 62 percent from the field — which makes sense seeing as a lot of his buckets come on alley oop finishes and putbacks. He was in the discussion for Most Improved and Defensive Player of the Year.
5. Marcus Camby — See what he can do when he’s healthy? Playing an iron-man-ish (by his standards) 70 games this year, Camby copped Defensive Player of the Year after averaging 11.7 boards and a League-high 3.3 blocks a night to go along with 11.2 points. He’s the only reason Denver’s D doesn’t give up 120 a game. He scored an invite to Team USA’s training camp, but the Nuggets understandably wanted Camby to stay home — and healthy — this summer.
4. Dwight Howard — Getting better every year. 2007 saw Dwight’s first All-Star appearance and his first playoff experience. After getting a lesson from the Pistons in a first-round sweep, Howard should be that much smarter and better next year. Physically, Howard is an animal who blocks shots (1.9 bpg), dunks on everyone in sight (17.6 ppg), and dominates the glass (12.3 rpg). If you were starting a team from scratch and were looking long-term, Dwight would be one of the Top 5 players you’d have to consider.
3. Shaquille O’Neal — Don’t get it twisted; Shaq is still one of the best in the game. When D-Wade went down with his shoulder injury this year, Shaq showed he’s still capable of being the most dominant player on the floor, helping carry the Heat from what looked like a Lottery season into fourth-place in the East. He put up 17.3 points, 7.4 boards and 1.4 blocks in an injury-shortened regular season, and upped his numbers to 18-8-1.5 in Miami’s first-round loss to Chicago. Yeah, he’s getting up there in age and misses more and more time on the bench in a suit, but there’s still few players who are harder to stop 1-on-1.
2. Amare Stoudemire — Not only did STAT come all the way back from the knee injury (playing all 82 games), he was better than the last time we saw him at his peak. Amare dropped 20.4 points and 9.6 boards on his way to getting All-NBA first team, went for 25 and 12 in the postseason, and added a 15-footer to his repertoire that makes him a certified problem for any defense.
1. Yao Ming — Instead of dominating for a few minutes here and there, Yao took over entire games this year, averaging 25 points, 9.4 boards and 2 blocks a night and entering the MVP discussion before a leg injury limited him to just 48 games. Yao’s conditioning has improved since he first came into the League, allowing him to stay on the court and avoid senseless fouls. Houston is still T-Mac’s team, but no way they even challenge Utah in seven games without the best center in the League.
Honorable mention: Emeka Okafor, Chris Kaman, Andrew Bogut, Nenad Krstic, Brad Miller
I DID NOT SEE ZA “THE CONTINUING TURNOVER” ZA NAME MENTIONED, EVEN AMONGST THE HONORABLE MENTIONED AND THIS ARTICLE WAS FROM THE LAST YEAR WHEN HE WAS STILL A STARTER. WE HAVE BACK UPS WHO NEED DEVELOPEMENT SINCE YOUR VISION IS TO DEVELOP BENCH PLAYERS. WE HAVE TWO YOUNG AND INEXPERIENCED CENTERS TO HANDLE THE SCRUBB MINUTES,…FOR LESS!!
You Woody haters dont have a clue,nor facts or knowledge. All you do is hate. Instead of learning and researching you try to blame Woody because a player doesnt step up or doesnt take advantage of his opportunities. Nobody can play for you!
Its not Woodys fault Paschulia is a slow non athletic turnover factory. What? You expect Woody to make him into Tim Duncan? Get real. The NBA is litter with players on every team that have the physical ability and will not step up to the task. Paschulia is equal to Koncak!
Real players step up and make good.
MBZ
June 2nd, 2009
11:03 am
Even the 2004 Pistons had a go-to guy….Chauncey Billups. But they ran an actual offense at the end of quarters instead of just playing iso basketball. I literally pray to God that Sund makes the right moves this offseason. Gortat was quoted in an article saying that he wants to go to a team where he gets more touches. He is a free agent and we are one of the few teams that have the money to throw at him. He can rebound and defend and is an upgrade over Pachulia in terms of athleticism and length. I also believe that Eric Maynor will be available with the 19 pick. Minnesota seems to be high on BJ Mullins and Philly seems to be zeroing in on Ty Lawson, which means Maynor should fall. But none of that matters if we have a coach that wont allow his players to make mistakes for the benefit of experience because he is trying to “save” his job.
Jay
June 2nd, 2009
11:09 am
Mark,
Whether there are 10 better Centers in the league than Horford is certainly up for debate but I think the general consensus is that he is a talented but undersized Center; which is why some think he would be a great PF. As such, he should be partnered with an oversized PF (like KG with Perkins in Boston)for optimum success but Josh Smith is not an oversized PF.
Fans who complained all season about Josh Smith’s play as a PF should have recognized a very important fact–he doesn’t want to be a PF! He doesn’t want to bang on the boards or always stay in the low-post on offense. He prefers to be a perimeter player where he, and the team, can maximize his athleticism. A quick aside–any possibility that the dust-ups between Smith and Coach Woodson stem from Smith’s desire to play SG or SF conflicting with Woodson’s need for Smith to play PF? IMO, moving Smith to a perimeter position, either SF or SG, must happen before this team can take the next step toward achieving a championship.
And since we’re talking about guys playing out-of-position, did anyone else notice that Joe Johnson, like Chris Paul, Deron Williams and LeBron, led his team in scoring and assists? Mike Bibby, and his back-up Flip Murray, are listed as the team’s PGs and they received much of the credit for the Hawks resurgence. However, their veteran presence and shooting skills helped the Hawks more than their playmaking skills. In fact, Johnson was really the team’s only facilitator because how many times did we see the Hawks offense call for Johnson to handle the ball (ISO Joe) and set up Bibby or Murray to take a shot?
I’d love to see the Hawks move Josh Smith to the backcourt with Joe Johnson, keep Horford at Center with Marvin Williams at SF and get a 7-Foot PF like Charlie Villenueva, Channing Frye, Troy Murphy or Jared Jefferies to complete the starting line-up. Then trade Speedy Claxton for Earl Watson (PG), sign Malik Rose (PF), re-sign Pachulia (C) and Murray (SG) to go with Maurice Evans(SF) to give Coach Woodson a veteran bench to police the locker room and give adequate rest to his starters.
Truth-serum
June 2nd, 2009
11:11 am
ZAZA was our starting center for the previous 4 years. He lost his job to a powerforward and now you want to make a powerforward into the center. No, the powerforward was drafted as a powerforward and will always be powerforward. Pachulia hasnt panned out for what was expected. He is a non athletic turnover factory with 2″ vertical leaping ability. Leave the powerforward at powerforwad and replace the center who didnt measure up with a center who has and will.
Truth-serum
June 2nd, 2009
11:16 am
The Truth
June 1st, 2009
11:44 pm
Truer words were never spoken! Great post.
I cant understand why so many are oblivious to the reality of the fact. I guess they have a hidden agenda. I agree 1000% you dont compete for the finals without a center and you wont win with a powerforward as your center.
Its really a no brainer.
Truth-serum
June 2nd, 2009
11:18 am
Jay
June 2nd, 2009
11:09 am
Its not that he would be great as a power forward… THATS WHAT HE IS AND THATS WHAT HE WAS DRAFTED AS. ARE YOU JUST COVERING FOR THE FACT THAT ZAZA OUR FORMER STARTING CENTER HAS HAD A MELTDOWN AND NEVER PANNED OUT ALA KONCAK?
Mark Bradley
June 2nd, 2009
11:24 am
I might be dumb, but isn’t it kind of silly to keep running a list of the NBA’s top 10 centers that was compiled before Al Horford was even drafted?
Dejay
June 2nd, 2009
11:30 am
‘90% of the world would’ve taken Marvin #2′….
Really? I must have been in the minority because I was railing the Marvin pick from the jump (as well as the Childress and Shelden selections). I also remember the entire ESPN staff, including Vitale, spending the entire night of that draft roasting BK for passing on CP3 and Deron as well.
That ‘90 percent’ who would’ve taken Marvin over the other two didn’t have Royal Ivey and Tyronn Lue manning the point.
What makes the pick more asinine is the very next offseason, what does BK do? Spend millions on Paul’s injury-prone backup, who has played about a dozen more games for them than I have since arriving in town. He drafts one year on potential (Marvin) instead of need when the difference in talent was obvious, then turns around and drafts on need (Shelden) instead of talent when the difference is obvious yet again.
See my point? The Hawks’ MO has always been on opportunities lost because of standing still, poor scouting, and horrid drafting. We can lock up entire websites discussing the scrubs this team has selected over the years.
I’m just wondering how this team is going to be able to get from 47 to 55 and in the elite class with a fractured ownership, a 19th pick, and a need for more talent? Just wondering….
Jay
June 2nd, 2009
11:52 am
Truth Serum–
I’m not covering for Zaza Pachulia in anyway. I think he is what he is-a tough-minded guy who has limited speed, quickness or offensive skill but bangs the boards and gives you what he has.
My point regarding Horford is that Ben Wallace, Dave Cowens and Wes Unseld were undersized starting centers who were partnered with an oversized forward for teams who have won championships. The reality is that there’s no Center available by trade or in the draft who can turn this team into a championship contender and it is easier to find a good oversized PF than to find a legitimate Center.
However, my main point is that solving the Josh Smith conundrum is more important to the long-term succes of the team because Smith does not want to play PF, he shouldn’t play PF if Horford is at Center and, more importantly, this team will not win a championship with him at that position.
All I'm Saying Is...
June 2nd, 2009
11:54 am
Once again, it’s (still) all Billy Knight’s fault for not drafting Chris Paul or Deron Williams or Brandon Roy. HUGE miss for sure but its 2009 people and figuring out how this team gets to the Finals going forward means moving on and addressing what we need today and what we need today is…..
1) Get a legit big man in the middle: either trade up (trade Marvin, Acie and throw in Solo or Randolph Morris) and draft Thabeet or BJ Mullens or go after an established big man via a trade with either Tyson Chandler or the versatile big man with Golden State (they have a new G.M. who may be looking to revamp his team now that Chris Mullins is out) as options; Plus, I don’t know if he’s available, but if he’s unrestricted, I’d even sign Dwight Howard’s backup Gortot [sp.] as the dude has shown he can play in the playoffs
2) Re-sign Bibby, ZaZa, and Flip for bench strength (and welcome back J-Chill if he wants to return stateside)
3) Sign unrestricted free agent Andre Miller as our new starting point guard (we don’t need a young dude fresh to the NBA as our window is the next five years)
4) Tell Woody its a make or break season for him (which he already knows)
And that, sports fans, is a prescription for success in 2009-2010 and you read it here first! Now go get it done Rick Sund as I’ve done all the thinking for you, my man! <just kidding, Rick as we all have faith in you…for now, otherwise you’ll be our new Billy Knight punching bag and even Bradley will have to criticize you.
(By the way, Bradley, how much longer do we have to put up with Don Waddell? Seriously. He should be gone by now and don’t give me that Heatley sob story, okay, as challenges come and go)
TRUTH-SERUM
June 2nd, 2009
1:04 pm
Jay
June 2nd, 2009
11:52 am
That’s a fair point from your perspective. I agree that Za Za is rough and tumble. The point is…and I hope you have you ears open Mo Dumb Bradley. Za the perpetual turnover up until last year was our STARTING CENTER. He was supposed to be the big center we needed to build on, kind of like Koncak. So for 4 years he was the center and now he’s is a bench player. He lost his starting role. He can’t run, he’s slow, he can’t jump, he’s slow, he can’t finish, he’s slow, he can’t score so he’s no threat and his man therefore is free to roam and play havoc on JJ and josh. I’m not sold on Bradley willful ignorance that Z was our center and lost his job and now we have a power forward spelling center. How about let’s trade Pachulia and get a center that’s proven and won’t turn to KONCAK!!
Mark Bradley
June 2nd, 2009
11:24 am
I might be dumb, but isn’t it kind of silly to keep running a list of the NBA’s top 10 centers that was compiled before Al Horford was even drafted?
I agree with you that you are dumb.(but you are probably a nice man who is willfully ignorant) The list is written during ZaZa reign as the Hawks starting center. Al Horford was a power forward at UF, HE WAS DRAFTED AS A POWER FORWARD and he still is a power forward and he always will be a power forward.
I see you are willfully ignorant to the point that since Pachulia lost his position and can’t cut it as the starter. He should be traded and lets go get the center he was suppose to be. Let’s not take survivors mentality of Center by committee. It is too great an impacted position to fill by committee by saying “hey let’s move the power forward there and go get a point guard. Let take the position that we are on the verge of being a serious contender and a true center away from being there. Let s build aggressively with expectations of winning rather that complacently, experimentally to see if we can wear out a power forward trying to be a center. Trade ZaZa for a center that can run, jump, finish and block and alter shots.
What Za has done
Playoffs Tea G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
First Round ATL 7 0 23.7 0.429 0.000 0.767 2.7 4.4 7.1 0.4 0.6 0.1 1.14 3.60 7.6
Semi-Finals ATL 4 1 23.5 0.389 0.000 0.750 2.3 4.3 6.5 0.0 0.2 0.5 1.50 3.80 5.8
Playoff Ave ATL 11 1 23.6 0.415 0.000 0.762 2.5 4.4 6.9 0.3 0.4 0.3 1.27 3.60 6.9
Season Team G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
08-09 ATL 77 26 19.1 0.497 0.000 0.709 2.2 3.4 5.7 0.7 0.4 0.3 1.18 2.70 6.2
Career 422 162 21.2 0.457 0.000 0.737 2.2 3.4 5.6 1.0 0.7 0.3 1.44 2.70 7.7
Not exactly making progress!
TRUTH-SERUM
June 2nd, 2009
1:07 pm
Jay
June 2nd, 2009
11:52 am
I DISAGREE WITH YOU ON THE POINT THAT THERE ARENT ANY CENTERS AVAILABLE TO HELP US COMPETE AT THE FINALS LEVEL. THERE ARE QUITE A FEW.
Mark Bradley
June 2nd, 2009
1:12 pm
Three things: Zaza hasn’t been the Hawks’ starting center for four years. He has only been with the Hawks four years, and Horford started at center the past two. Zaza was the full-time starter only in 2005-2006 and for half of 2006-2007. Here are his career stats.
Next point: The Hawks can’t trade Pachulia. He’s an unrestricted free agent.
Third point: Why are you always harping on Paculia? The guy is what he is — a backup center, and an OK backup center at that.