Why the Atlanta Hawks are still wishing upon a star
The annual chorus is in fine voice. “The Hawks,” goes the full-throated refrain, “won’t get any better until they find a superstar [meaning LeBron James or Kobe Bryant] or a true center [like Dwight Howard].”
And there’s no rebuttal. Sure, the Hawks would be better with LeBron/Kobe/Dwight. Any team would. But the cold truth is that the Hawks won’t find such a transcendent talent unless Dame Fortune smiles an outrageous smile. That’s the way of the NBA.
“You don’t trade for superstars,” says Rick Sund, the Hawks’ general manager. “You draft them.”
The lottery is, by design and definition, pure luck. The Hawks were participants in 2003 (LeBron’s year, when their No. 8 pick was made by Milwaukee as part of the Glenn Robinson trade) and 2004 (Dwight’s year, when they settled for Josh Childress with the sixth pick), and both times went unblessed by the ping-pong balls. There’s no strategy involved. It’s the bounce of ball in a hopper.
A little exercise: Take one player – any one, from Josh Smith to Speedy Claxton – off the Hawks and replace him with LeBron/Kobe/Dwight. Know where the Hawks would be? Preparing for Game 1 of the NBA finals. This is a very good team that lacks only one great player, but that’s a massive lack.
We tire of the NBA’s blather about its stars, but nobody can deny that it’s a star’s game. And stars are hard to get. Of the 15 men who comprised the 2009 All-NBA teams, 13 were top 10 draftees – the exceptions are Kobe Bryant, taken No. 13 when high schoolers weren’t yet the rage, and Tony Parker, who arrived from France as the 28th pick in 2001 – and 10 went in the top five.
Loading ...Only three of the 15 have changed teams since their NBA debuts. (The three: Shaquille O’Neal, Pau Gasol and Chauncey Billups.) Moral of our story: If you find a star, you keep him. And if you have a chance at one and you whiff … well, you wind up being the Hawks, forever chasing the game.
They couldn’t have had James in 2003 or Howard in 2004 because they didn’t win the lottery. But they had a shot at Chris Paul (second team All-NBA) in 2005, and they had another at Brandon Roy (also second team) the next year. To harp on those dire drafts is to flog a horse deader than Man ’o War, but the Hawks haven’t yet — and might never — outrun those lapses.
They could have had a backcourt of Paul and Joe Johnson way back in 2005. No, they wouldn’t have landed in the 2007 lottery and wouldn’t have Al Horford, but they’d have made the Eastern Conference finals by now and still had Mike Bibby’s money to spend on a big man.
Billy Knight deserves credit for building a 69-loss roster into a robust entity, but the best player he acquired — Johnson — hasn’t made the All-NBA team. Twice Knight had the opening to draft a star, and twice he took a guy named Williams. (Though not, alas, Deron Williams.) And even now, as the Hawks come off their finest season in a decade and Sund seeks to model his club after the starless 2003-2004 Pistons, those failures are the horse that keeps on dying.
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178 comments Add your comment
Birddawg
June 1st, 2009
6:44 pm
The Hawks may have had there star if they had the right staff to develop them. Is there any doubt that if Joe had Phil Jackson as a coach, he would have at least been second team all NBA, maybe scratching at the door to a championship. This team is much more talented across the board than that star-less Pistons team that won the championship, but if you don’t have proper coaching to take advantage of all that talent, develop the young talent, put players in the best position to be successful and install an offense around the talent that you have, it doesn’t mean anything. This team has several players with the talent to be stars and at least two with the talent to be superstars, but what does it matter if you have a coach that doesn’t know how to use them. Forget paying millions to bring in a superstar, or having the luck to draft one, how about bringing in a real coach that knows how to use the immense talent that they have. The Hawks have improved each year and reached the second round of the playoffs this year in spite of Woodson, not because of him. How far do you think they could have gotten with a real coach?
rms
June 1st, 2009
6:46 pm
Horford would be playing for Phoenix since we still would have traded for Joe Johnson for some strange reason. I think Paul could have helped make some of these players on our roster better like he did for Chandler and West. Being a scorer and a true assist/facilitator is better than Bibby and Marvin. I would have missed Horford though!!!
Brad
June 1st, 2009
6:47 pm
Maybe so Mark. I think we all agree things would be different if we had Chris Paul at PG. But we don’t so lets move on! Dont make things so depressing for us Hawks fans!!
BrittishAnger
June 1st, 2009
6:51 pm
I don’t think I could name 10, but I’ll try….using your three first…
Dwight Howard (best big in overall size and body structure)
Yao (Best in terms of pure height)
Shaq (his record speaks for itself)
Big Z (better shooting center than Horford)
Brook Lopez (every game we faced the Nets, he made Horford look ineffective at center)
Ben Wallace (is everything Horford hopes to be one day for that size of a center, though he lacks the offensive numbers Horford has put up)
Mike Batiste (Euroleague equivalent to Ben Wallace with offensive numbers to back it up, watch some Panathiniakos games and tell me otherwise).
Carlos Boozer (he came as the last great Duke center, and still has the ability to be great, but the same argument (move from 5 to 4) does step into consideration).
That the best I could do, and I had to pull one from Euro to do it, but there are others that I won’t list because of their crappy situations (Chris Kaman, Marcus Camby, Tyson Chandler*). If you look at Horford with Florida, who was behind him at center with the extra wingspan to help control the inside? Jo’ Noah, that’s who. He accepted the role of center because we have been understaffed at that position (Zaza is a great 2nd-team center, and would be a great linchpin in any 1-3-1 defensive scheme either as the 4 or 5, though Randolph Morris and Solo Jones will never amount to anything at a backup center role). I don’t think we could put him back at 4 without some serious lineup changes (depending on how the summer goes, maybe we could). He’s doing alright at that role, but I believe he would contend far better with the PF’s rather than a litany of centers in the league right now (and with Hasheem Thabeet coming in, he’s more undersized than ever). For a running team, he’s a great center, but against any legit half-court team with a taller center, he’s far better playing PF.
Goldie31206
June 1st, 2009
6:54 pm
I understand the statement but with the excepetion of adnormalities like a Lebron James, championship teams have history more than anything, a history of smart decisions. Case in point How can the braves every year pull out gems like a hanson, mccan, and Medlen drafting low but the Pirates can’t put anything together with all the high picks. The answer is history and legacy if you build a culture of winning that’s what you will have. we are in recovery from horrible history. Everyone screams for the Cp3 or Brandon Roy, but how about rebouning from decisions from previous management to wait trade Paul Gasol for Shareef abdul Rhaeem, or hey we need antoine walker for jason terry. Hey how about Steve smith for Isaiah Rider and well keep Dominque from being involved with the club. Not to mention we had a quality 7 footer pass away, Jason Collier anyone. And were complaining after 46 wins. No stars are not the answer ask miami with Dwade, or Lebron James, or Toronto with Chris Bosh, or even San Antonio with Duncan and Parker. It takes a team and history on your side. History brings in A sam cassel and good role players after the trade deadline after their contracts are bought out. IT’s all about team plus who wants to really play with lebron anyway if you win it’s because of him and if you loose it all your fault. Talk about no win If stars won than Pheonix, and Dallas, not to mention those Portland teams remeber they had a front court of sabonis, grant, wallace, bonzi wells, jermmaine oneal. They would have been won multiple championships. SO don’t worry all were on the right path. Out of all those free agents we need Charlie Villanueva the most or a Carlos Booze and watch out. Much love to all
Jay
June 1st, 2009
6:55 pm
The dark legacy of Billy Knightmare continues to haunt the Hawks. He only got two picks right with Smith and Horford. In every single other case, he took a bust (Shelden, Acie) or reached (Marvin, Chills). I dont see us getting over the hump anytime soon unless one of Marvin-Horford-Smith takes a huge leap. Either that or we get EXTREMELY lucky in the draft.
ATLien
June 1st, 2009
7:22 pm
I disagree that you can’t trade for superstars. That’s exactly what Boston did two years ago and they won a championship because of it.
Rather than dreaming about some unobtainable all-star PG or C or some lottery pick we’d have to give up too much to get, why don’t we package a SnT Marvin together with Mo Evans and Speedy and trade them to Milwaukee for Michael Redd. Slide JJ to SF. With Bibby (or Felton if the Bobcats don’t match our offer), Redd, Johnson, Smith and Horford, we’d have a nasty starting 5, and with Redd, other teams would seriously have to second-guess double-teaming Joe.
O'brien
June 1st, 2009
7:24 pm
Najeh Davenpoop, I agree with you. Cleveland would have been great with another Batman like JJ. Speaking of JJ, his contract is up next year, and so is Lebron. if you are Danny Ferry, wouldnt you go out of your way to keep Lebron (and sign another batman like JJ or DWade).
Also, next year is when the big name free agents are available. If a team misses out on Lebron, Bosh, Wade, they might go after JJ as a consolation prize. I think the Hawks need to offer him an extension from now.
BrittishAnger
June 1st, 2009
7:27 pm
I almost forgot…
*Tyson’s situation isn’t as bad as one might ponder, considering people think we’d be a powerhouse with Chris Paul as our PG, but I am not familiar with his stats and can’t make that claim without them.
chas
June 1st, 2009
7:33 pm
The Hawks will remain in the mezzanine level relative to the Nba elite until they overhaul the team. They aren’t bad enough for a lottery pick so they’ll have to get lucky with a trade or dismantle what they have working and start over. The great teams in the past had someone you absolutely had to double team (think Jordan, Olajuwon etc) and had a supporting cast that could knock down threes or drive and score. I think it all starts at the top with Bibby. When was the last time a John Stockton or Chris Paul or a Steve Nash played an entire game with fewer than 3 assists? Bibby has done this numerous times in the regular season and playoffs. Sure, Bibby can fill it up the treys when he is open but a point guard needs to get his teammates easier shots. And this is not a strong enough offense to overcome a point guard who cannot drive and dish. If I were the opposing team diagramming how to stop the Hawks it would be pretty simple:
1) Double team Joe Johnson and make him pass the ball
Don’t worry about the rest of the gang
2) Don’t give Bibby an open three, but make him drive and dish which will not lead to an easy deuce
3) Give Josh Smith any open jumper and make him drive. When he drives get some help if needed… do or don’t foul him and block his shot. He cannot make a free throw or an open jumper so Hack a Shaq if he beats you
4) Let Zsa Zsa do his dance, but block his trash ..you don’t even have to jump
5) Don’t worry too much about Horford. He is a great all around player, but doesn’t have great post up moves because he is a forward posing as a center
6) Force Starvin Marvin to drive or get a hand in his face when he shoots a jumper
7) Help out if Flip Murray beats his defender and make him pass
As an armchair GM and Hawks fan for the last 30+ years, I still have no idea where you go from here. Hawks have never advanced past the second round in the playoffs and it doesn’t appear they will anytime soon.
Mark Bradley
June 1st, 2009
7:41 pm
Chandler isn’t as good as Horford. Ilgauskas isn’t as good as Horford. (Can’t defend.) Ben Wallace isn’t as good as Horford. (Can’t score.)
I’d count Tim Duncan as a center, even though the Spurs have always called him a power forward. And I’ll give you Boozer, even though he’s listed as a PF, too. So that’s five. Brook Lopez? He averaged 1.5 more points a game (but took 250 more shots). Horford averaged more rebounds and assists. So I’d call that a push.
So that’s five centers better than Horfy, with Lopez being in the neighborhood. See what I mean?
lawton
June 1st, 2009
7:41 pm
the lottery is fixed. the first time they trotted out that “accounting firm” to make you think it was above board, i knew it wasnt. sterns runs the nba like a circus. its a TRAVELING circus. every team (market) must have a superstar. know way billy knight was that dumb to wiff on paul, williams and roy. sterns made those decisions, the same one he made when he used the hawks to get wallace over to detroit.
RA
June 1st, 2009
7:43 pm
You know, it must be a figment of my imagination, but I could have sworn that the Hawks survived the first round of the playoffs, and Chris Paul didn’t…. Or did I blink?
You know, this isn’t really what I do, but I’ve got a new hat idea for Nike to be maketed in the Orlando area. In the center it should read WITNESS 4-2! And on the sides there should be some fancy design on it that says EASTERN CONFERENCE CHAMPS. And on the back, and this is completely optional you understand, they could say something like LBJ is a classless punk. Like I said, not exactly what I do, but the design came to me in a dream. God I hate Cleveland!
Melvin
June 1st, 2009
7:47 pm
What about Andrew Bynum? I would add Bynum to that list. Matter of fact, I would do a Horford for Bynum swap….
Mark Bradley
June 1st, 2009
7:47 pm
And David Stern wanted Deron Williams in Utah, as opposed to Atlanta? And Brandon Roy in Portland? And Chris Paul in New Orleans?
Uh, no.
Mark Bradley
June 1st, 2009
7:51 pm
Bynum’s a talent. But he has also been in the league four years to Horford’s two. (Horford is a year older, though.) And he plays with Kobe and alongside Gasol. And he hasn’t done much of anything this postseason. (He’s averaging 6.3 points in the playoffs.)
LouHudson
June 1st, 2009
7:53 pm
First of all for the record, Karam Adual Jabbar was the best player in NBA player ever. 6 titles in the modern era along with the most dominate shot ever. Forget Jordan, Magic, or Bird, If you ask any GM what player he would take first to build a team, it would be Jabbar hands down. The Center is foundation to building a championship team until the Hawks accept this reality, they will never compete for a title. The Hawks must control the lane to win big playing Horford out of position is not the answer. Marvin, their 19th pick, and Law are all trade bait for obtaining the best possible options for solving their main problem(no inside persent). Trading for Thabert (not likely), but Kamam or Pryszilla are real possiblities neither are great, but both can rebound on both ends as well as bang/defend. Again S & T with Marvin and Claxton(expiring contract), resign Flip & JChillz, resign Bibby at a reduced rate(or him let go), Jarrett Jack an option, resign Solo.
Become a defensive team and win a championship!
Sund, go make it happen!
Harpie
June 1st, 2009
8:16 pm
Why have the Hawks crapped on Acie Law?
Melvin Flowers
June 1st, 2009
8:25 pm
Move the Hawks out of town. Its to many owners fighting makeing the news yearly.
We need a new team with a one man show Authur Blank. He’s a Winner a great owner my choice in Macon Georgia. Falcons owner Mr. Blank does what it take to be champions. The Braves needs to roll out of town also.
pete babcock
June 1st, 2009
8:31 pm
Jay,
Acie Law is not a bust, when he leaves and go to a team with a decent head coach he plays his bench, he will suceed.. the pick that will hunt us for ever is the Shelden Williams0 over Brandon Roy…Roy will be a top 10 player in 2 years…Marvin over Paul was not a terible pick hell how far has paul got? Acie could be just as productive if given the fair chance..People talk s… about Marvin but he has been solid without plays called for him..Childress is better all around than deng and AI so who should we had taken it was a weak draft.We need to trade up in the draft and get Thabett.
BrittishAnger
June 1st, 2009
8:38 pm
Next year, I might give you Ben Wallace as not being in that list (Horford is one season away from a legit double double average and a +1 to his blocks as well), but Wallace this year was as legit of a defensive player as you can get for being on a team where you aren’t even the starting center. If the Detroit Pistons had kept the original Larry Brown core, Ben Wallace would still be among the top Centers in the league, even with Kwame and McDyess being there ….I’ll buy your argument in one year, but Wallace has a championship and didn’t need the scoring potential to help make it happen….
And Ilgau’ is a better center than Horford, though Horford would be a better player if he were still playing at PF….Ilgauskas scores more efficiently for a minor drop in rebounds and their block numbers were pretty comparable. Zydrunas’ numbers aren’t without their own little asterisk, considering Varejao is really a 2nd center playing effective 3-2 schemes with Big Z alongside him…if the Cav’s don’t resign Z, next year Varejao will be huge and worth putting on that list….
And Bynum is a far greater bust in the long term than having Al at the position…he should be a lot bigger, a lot stronger, a lot more of an influence, but if the Lakers lose this series, he’ll be the reason why…
RICHIE RICH
June 1st, 2009
8:40 pm
EMEKA OKAFOR, MARCUS CAMBY, CHRIS KAMAN, MARC GASOL, TIM DUNCAN, NENE, AL JEFFERSON, MEHMET OKUR, RASHEED WALLACE, & ANDREW BYNUM…..THAT’S MY TEN
niremetal
June 1st, 2009
8:44 pm
Uh….if we had Chris Paul, HE’D have Bibby’s money. So we wouldn’t have a big man. I’m not missing Chris Paul. Deron Williams yes, Chris Paul no. And we still wouldn’t have a big man, so I promise you – we wouldn’t be in the East finals.
I would not trade Marvin Williams and Al Horford for Chris Paul.
brent a.
June 1st, 2009
8:50 pm
The Hawks have done quite well in terms of year-over-year improvement over the last 5 years.
What they need, now, in lieu of a superstar, is a grizzled veteran who can come in and teach this team how to win the big games.
Even championship-caliber teams need these guys, which is often how they become championship-caliber teams in the first place.
When Phil Jackson got to LA in 1999, he brought along both Ron Harper and John Salley, two guys who had won titles with him in Chicago. Their presence on that young, talented Lakers team was invaluable as the Lakers went from an annual play-off disappointment, to the best team in the league in Jackson’s first year.
Remember the impact Sam Cassell had on both the Timberwolves (2004) and the Clippers (2006)? The Hawks are already a good team. Add a tough-minded veteran who can come in and be a coach on the court (like Chauncey in Denver was this year), and we could actually see the Hawks in the ECF a year from now.
haleydawg
June 1st, 2009
8:50 pm
bradley, i thought basketball was a team game, lebron is slowly becoming a me player like kobe, i was sorry to see la go to the finals, denver is a bettew team and orlando should run away, kids should be taught the virtues of a team play as the game of basketball is going extinct on mainstream because of showing off like a iverson
brent a.
June 1st, 2009
9:00 pm
Mark,
Bynum “hasn’t dome much of anything this post-season”, because once again, he’s coming off an injury.
He was never able to get into a flow in the first two rounds due to early foul trouble, which were largely the result of him not being in (play-off) game shape.
He was fine in the Denver series (check out his numbers from the series-shifting LA win in Game 3 at Denver). He’s not always going to put up big numbers every night, as the Lakers objective with Bynum, Gasol, and Odom, is to throw something different at you almost every game, especially coming off of a loss.
In LA, in particular, his (scoring) numbers don’t tell the whole story of the impact he has on that team. His presence alone, always requiring a big defender, does wonders to free up his teammates. It is his sometimes loafing on defense that has gotten him pulled from so many play-off games (when fouls weren’t the issue).
Which brings me to Horford. He is never an issue defensively, and his offense is coming along just fine. Horford probably actually brings more over-all skill to the court than does Bynum. Bynum was actually a late-bloomer, and really hasn’t played basketball that long. He was drafted at 17 and was put to work with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Each time he has appeared to get into a flow offensively, his season’s have been cut short by knee injuries.
Horford, OTOH, is a 2-time college champion and a world-class athlete. He was ready to step in and play in the NBA right away.
Each player has the potential to become a big star. But if the two were to be traded for each other right now, I think that Horford’s career would continue to flourish, while Bynum’s development would likely take a step back.
brent a.
June 1st, 2009
9:03 pm
If you want to see team basketball, then LA is a fine example to watch. Regardless of any issues (perceived or otherwise) Kobe may have had in the past, LA runs a beautiful offense in which multiple players are scoring threats.
People should get past their pre-conceived notions about Kobe and realize that LA is a great TEAM.
That’s not me saying that they will beat Orlando, that’s just me pointing out the facts.
Denver lost 2 of 3 home games against LA. It’s time to quit saying they were the better team.
JK
June 1st, 2009
9:06 pm
why is everybody hatin on the HAWKS!!! MY GOD, we won 47 games and reached the second round. its very possible that we could have made it to the conference finals this year if half our lineup wasnt hurt. we proved we could play with the cavs when we beat them in december and shattered their 11 game winning streak. we have a solid team. one of the youngest teams. with a STAR in JJ. KG said it himself that he is the most underrated player in basketball. Josh Smith will be star and marvin williams has a lot of potential. yall r crazy..
JK
June 1st, 2009
9:08 pm
and dont forget horford. hes a beast that just needs a chance to become a force offensively.
rms
June 1st, 2009
9:11 pm
Matchups make a huge deal. You cant compare one team playing against another and say that the Hawks would do better. Certain teams match up better against the other. The Hawks barely made it past the second round but if they played maybe the Bulls that probably would have been an upset of maybe the Pistons it wouldnt have been close. It just depends on how your team matches up with other teams. The Hornets just didnt match up well against their opponent, just like the Cavs didnt match up well against the Magic. The Bulls vs. Celtics was just about even it just came down to execution and knocking down key shots.
Granger
June 1st, 2009
9:21 pm
You say you want to get Eric Maynor, but he won’t be there. Trade up and get the man. Trade Marvin Williams to move up in this years draft and get a first round draft pick next year. Take Maynor and with your 19th pick, take Tyler Hansborough. He is as good as Marvin Williams, right now. He will bring life to this lazy bunch. Only one person has outplayed Tyler in four years and that would be Blake Griffin, the first player picked in this years draft. Your starting five would be, Josh Smith, Hortford, Zsa Zsa, Joe Johnson, and Bibby. Your first two players off the bench would be Maynor and Hansborough. Yall want to get players on potential. Hansborough plays hard every night and maybe this would rub off on the all the other lazy ones. Law had potential, and where has he been? On the bench!! You act like you can’t move off of the 19th pick. Tyler brings hustle and toughness that this team needs. You can’t count on Williams. Every little injury he gets and he is out of the game. Just make the trade!! It is not that difficult!!
rms
June 1st, 2009
9:21 pm
aint nobody hatin on the Hawks, they just got some serious roster issues to address this season or else that 47 win season will be just a distant memory. As far as Marvin is concerned, having lots of potential and actually maximizing it are two different things. How long are we going to be saying Josh and Marvin are going to be a star vs saying they actually ARE STARS!!
kool kid
June 1st, 2009
9:24 pm
they need to stay together not lerf anybody go
Red Boy
June 1st, 2009
10:16 pm
Marvin Williams is going to be a star. I just got a feeling rick Sund will do something stupid and trade him.
kool$kat
June 1st, 2009
10:36 pm
Its the curse of Dominique…Hawks have sucked since he was traded.
Big Ray
June 1st, 2009
10:42 pm
Again, naw we don’t need one of those great pgs. We’ve got Bibby. Hurray.
I love this “if we got this person, we wouldn’t have THAT person.”
Tell me, what are Marvin and Al doing now (no offense to them) in Woody’s wonderful offense. Nothing CP3 or Deron couldn’t do, that’s what.
And guess what? Woody values the pg spot a hell of a lot more than he does the 3 or 5. Get the drift?
Mark Bradley
June 1st, 2009
10:54 pm
Big Ray knows the game. Just sayin’.
UGA
June 1st, 2009
11:02 pm
Superstars?
Dwayne Wade, Vince Carter, Iverson, Danny Granger, Derrick Rose—–
The Hawks had a better record than all of these teams!!
O'brien
June 1st, 2009
11:02 pm
I agree rms. We keep saying how Josh and Marvin are still young, and if they had gone to college, then blah blah blah. I understand that part of the problem might be the offensive system (or lack thereof), but how long do we continue to wait on their potential to be maximized?
The Hawks have a #2, #3, #5 and #6 pick, and none of them are allstars, not even close (Horford has a good chance to become one, given time). And Horford might be a top 10 center, but the Hawks will continuosly struggle against teams that have legit 7 footers (Brook Lopez gave us trouble), especially with Woody’s system (and Bibby’s defensive deficiencies), because Josh, Al and Marvin are only 6-9. We need a defensive presence in the front court (like Gortat from Orlando), even if its off the bench.
Mr. Bradley, I raised this question on Sekou’s blog, and I would like to get your thoughts. Given that Toronto is worried about losing Bosh when his contract expires next year, what do you think it would take to get Chris Bosh to Atlanta (I assume Josh Smith would have to be included)…And do you think that’s a move Sund would make (given we dont know if Bosh will sign an extension with us)?
Dan
June 1st, 2009
11:05 pm
Enough of the Chris Paul stuff already!! God!! Mark, you were doing so well on your Hawks coverage only to write this garbage. There is no insight to be gained by this. You’re telling us that the Hawks would be better if they had Lebron/Kobe/Howard….OK….Stay tuned next week, everyone! Mark will tell us that the sky is blue.
You could go back over the draft history of any team and find mistakes. Joe Dumars gets credit for being a terrific GM, but he drafted the only bad player in the ‘03 draft. It happens.
At least Marvin can contribute. You want to rip Billy Knight for a bad pick? You should be focusing on the Sheldon Williams pick. That was far worse. He took a player at #5 that could not even play in the league.
Mark, c’mon….push yourself a little harder than this…
Mark Bradley
June 1st, 2009
11:08 pm
O’Brien, that’s a good one. (And please, call me Mark.) Bosh is mighty tempting, but your point about him not re-upping is massive. Would you gamble four more years of Josh Smith, who’s a year younger, against what could be one year of Bosh?
I wouldn’t. I say it again: In two years Josh Smith will be the best player on this team. (And that’s even if Joe Johnson stays.)
Mark Bradley
June 1st, 2009
11:09 pm
I believe I made reference to “two guys named Williams.” I wasn’t forgetting the Landlord.
kirkinga
June 1st, 2009
11:19 pm
Yes having a superstar seems to be the path to glory in June, but that’s just a surface level question. The real question is having the right mix of superstar(s),role players, and health. That;s the way it is in all professional sports.
There are teams with more superstars than either the Lakers or the Magic. The Rockets have two, the Celtics have 3, the Spurs have 3, the Suns, arguably have 2, the Mavericks at various times had 3.One wonders if the Lakers and Magic are in the Finals if the Celtics, Spurs, and Rockets are fully healthy?
A quick note on Marvin, the reason he was drafted was because the consensus was he had the most upside of any player in his draft. Better basketball minds than Billy Knight felt the future pay off of a Marvin Williams beat any immediate (and possibly limited) help from a PG.So if we are going to be flawless in our hindsight, we best take more than just the Hawks to task for an incorrect evaluation of Marvin Williams.
The Truth
June 1st, 2009
11:19 pm
Mark here are 11 centers that are better than Horford right now:
Dwight Howard, Yao Ming, Shaquille O’Neal, Al Jefferson, Marcus Camby, Pau Gasol, Nene, Chris Bosh, Brook Lopez, Tim Duncan, Amare Stoudemire.
We can debate where Al Horford fit in this group but if Sund is satisfied with our center being in 10th place in the league, than it validates a perception we may have about him. Maybe bold and aggressive should not be the appropriate words to describe his tenure but rather complacent, satisfied and conformity should be a better depiction of him. I hope I’m wrong about him but we shall see. The litmus test for Sund is a simple question; is he planning to win a championship or just being competitive?
Ted Striker
June 1st, 2009
11:21 pm
Mark — I kinda liked the ‘flogging a dead horse’ reference
brent a.
June 1st, 2009
11:24 pm
I think I would definitely trade Josh Smith for Chris Bosh.
Mark Bradley
June 1st, 2009
11:27 pm
Hey, Ted. Long time no hear. I referenced you (affectionately) on another blog installment earlier.
Mark Bradley
June 1st, 2009
11:29 pm
Brent, I would, too, if all things were equal. But would you trade Josh, who’s under contract for four more years, if you weren’t sure Bosh would stick around the ATL after 2010?
Ted Striker
June 1st, 2009
11:30 pm
Truth: I wouldn’t mind having the 10th best center if my guards and forwards were top ten too.
rms
June 1st, 2009
11:31 pm
UGA: Two of those players have at least been to the finals or won a championship and had to start all over. There was a time when they were better than us but who’s counting that. You got D. Rose who led his team to the playoffs in their first year and gave the NBA and the watching world to witness the best opening round in a long time if not ever! and by the way just because you hire the assistant coach of a team that won a championship doesnt mean you can duplicate the same thing. The Pistons didnt have like 30 owners trying to sue each other and fighting in court and despite blotching that 2nd pick (and passing over D-Wade and Carmelo the GM has a good idea of running a team. Only now is that mistake starting to catch up with them. Atlanta on the other hand has a GM who in my opinion is questionable at best and ownership truly is a joke and even more of a joke when they try to justify themselves in the newspaper and on the radio. Just saying….