Why the Atlanta Hawks are still wishing upon a star
The annual chorus is in fine voice. “The Hawks,” goes the full-throated refrain, “won’t get any better until they find a superstar [meaning LeBron James or Kobe Bryant] or a true center [like Dwight Howard].”
And there’s no rebuttal. Sure, the Hawks would be better with LeBron/Kobe/Dwight. Any team would. But the cold truth is that the Hawks won’t find such a transcendent talent unless Dame Fortune smiles an outrageous smile. That’s the way of the NBA.
“You don’t trade for superstars,” says Rick Sund, the Hawks’ general manager. “You draft them.”
The lottery is, by design and definition, pure luck. The Hawks were participants in 2003 (LeBron’s year, when their No. 8 pick was made by Milwaukee as part of the Glenn Robinson trade) and 2004 (Dwight’s year, when they settled for Josh Childress with the sixth pick), and both times went unblessed by the ping-pong balls. There’s no strategy involved. It’s the bounce of ball in a hopper.
A little exercise: Take one player – any one, from Josh Smith to Speedy Claxton – off the Hawks and replace him with LeBron/Kobe/Dwight. Know where the Hawks would be? Preparing for Game 1 of the NBA finals. This is a very good team that lacks only one great player, but that’s a massive lack.
We tire of the NBA’s blather about its stars, but nobody can deny that it’s a star’s game. And stars are hard to get. Of the 15 men who comprised the 2009 All-NBA teams, 13 were top 10 draftees – the exceptions are Kobe Bryant, taken No. 13 when high schoolers weren’t yet the rage, and Tony Parker, who arrived from France as the 28th pick in 2001 – and 10 went in the top five.
Loading ...Only three of the 15 have changed teams since their NBA debuts. (The three: Shaquille O’Neal, Pau Gasol and Chauncey Billups.) Moral of our story: If you find a star, you keep him. And if you have a chance at one and you whiff … well, you wind up being the Hawks, forever chasing the game.
They couldn’t have had James in 2003 or Howard in 2004 because they didn’t win the lottery. But they had a shot at Chris Paul (second team All-NBA) in 2005, and they had another at Brandon Roy (also second team) the next year. To harp on those dire drafts is to flog a horse deader than Man ’o War, but the Hawks haven’t yet — and might never — outrun those lapses.
They could have had a backcourt of Paul and Joe Johnson way back in 2005. No, they wouldn’t have landed in the 2007 lottery and wouldn’t have Al Horford, but they’d have made the Eastern Conference finals by now and still had Mike Bibby’s money to spend on a big man.
Billy Knight deserves credit for building a 69-loss roster into a robust entity, but the best player he acquired — Johnson — hasn’t made the All-NBA team. Twice Knight had the opening to draft a star, and twice he took a guy named Williams. (Though not, alas, Deron Williams.) And even now, as the Hawks come off their finest season in a decade and Sund seeks to model his club after the starless 2003-2004 Pistons, those failures are the horse that keeps on dying.
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178 comments Add your comment
ATL living in NYC
June 1st, 2009
3:45 pm
Mark,
That is very true. You either draft superstars or you pay millions of dollars to obtain them. I understand he isnt a superstar but Joe has been great for this franchise. Do you see the hawks trading Joe Johnson at the deadline next year or actually will try and resign him?
Obama hates Cheney's bald head the most
June 1st, 2009
3:45 pm
Well said, go get a star Sund!!!
Kenbud
June 1st, 2009
3:47 pm
I could not agree more …. that’s why last year, I said they should have offered the sun, moon and a couple of stars for the #1 pick and Derrick Rose. Had it been any other team, I’m sure the team would have bitten, but the hometown Chicago Bulls really wanted him.
I can’t say I would do the same for Blake Griffith this year, though. It’s a guard’s league now, and you need the great guard play.
Mac
June 1st, 2009
3:49 pm
Man, you’re a blogging machine. I love it. Yeah, Billy Knight’s work put together a roster good enough to back into the playoffs and somehow take the Celtics to seven games. With a little tweaking, Sund took a step forward. Now, the Hawks seem like they are probably stuck … maybe never to have that ascendant star. Unless, unless Josh Smith can grow into that player. A guy named Williams cannot. But could a guy named Horford?
Daniel
June 1st, 2009
3:57 pm
Mark-
I like your stuff and I really appreciate the attention that you keep focusing on the Hawks. But, the Hawks need a player like LeBron, Kobe, or Howard to make the finals? Really? Wow, now that is some cutting edge insight. What team doesn’t need that? BTW- Having LeBron, Barkley, Ewing, AI, or the mighty CP3 does not mean that you will win either. So what does that mean? Only super-super stars can win an NBA championship or do you become that once you have won. Carmelo Anthony? Deron Williams? Tracy McGrady? not super super stars? Is Kevin Durant? The story is not over on these Hawks… Marvin, Josh and Al have as much upside as any combo in the league. We need veteran depth and we can make a run. Also, Kevin Garnett changed teams.
The Real Fan
June 1st, 2009
4:06 pm
You cannot trade the #1 pick in the NBA so those proposed trades were not possible. The Hawks need a scorer in the draft, one who can get his own shot off. Not a point guard. As long as Joe is the only pseudo-scorer we will see what happened in the playoffs to his numbers. We need more consistent scoring options. We can trade for a usable center for say two years. Trade Marvin. Move Al to strong forward (his natural position). Then we aren’t beaten up by teams with real center size.
tyger
June 1st, 2009
4:07 pm
Dang Mark,
As soon as you start regaining your credibility, you go and shoot yourself in the foot. My 5 yr. old knows we would be better with Lebron/Kobe/Dwight. I guess anything is better than nothing.
gte268p
June 1st, 2009
4:21 pm
I only read the caption under the picture on the sports page, but why do we have to keep bringing up the past for the Hawks? We know all this, we know they could have had Chris Paul as a superstar. But why keep dwelling? The future is looking pretty good! We have a star in Joe Johnson. And he is far better than any other star on other teams because he is low key, down to earth, doesn’t neet attention, does his job, and doesn’t complain. He should be the one fathers want kids to have as a role model. I don’t want a muppet superstar that has to be coddled!
Joe
June 1st, 2009
4:26 pm
Stop your shoulda, wouda, coulda, and deal with reality, the Hawks are what they are, stop living in the past and concentrate your thoughts and energy on what we should do now to improve the team, who we should draft, or how we can sign and trade to improve the team, what affordable free agents should the Hawks sign, how can we train and make our big men play better both offensively and defensively, how can we coach better and stop running all plays through Johnson, how can we spread the ball around to run plays inside for the big men to score and be there for the offensive rebounds, how we can improve our players’ medium range jump shots, how can we reduce the deadly turnovers, find three point shooters. Those are the things the Hawks coaches, players and GM should be discussing and planning for implementation.
Mark Bradley
June 1st, 2009
4:34 pm
That was kind of my hope with this one. I was always uncomfortable after “regaining my credibility.” Couldn’t wait to get rid of it.
Volman
June 1st, 2009
4:39 pm
Good article, Mr. Bradley…but very obvious. We all know that the Hawks didn’t get Deron Williams or Chris Paul…and that the team would be SO MUCH BETTER with them right now (I don’t even want to think about it)
I don’t think Roy is better than Joe…but I’d rather have Roy than Shelden Williams (what a terrible pick) or what came of Shelden (Bibby). If you say that the Hawks drafted Paul over Marvin, then the Hawks would not have Marvin OR Horford.
Let’s just hope they can get some more “semi-stars”..I guess.
I don’t know why any superstars want to come to Atlanta.. the fans bow down to them anytime they show up.
Google Alert – Atlanta « Atlanta Locksmith (404) 348-4348
June 1st, 2009
4:40 pm
[...] Why the Atlanta Hawks are still wishing upon a star Atlanta Journal Constitution – GA, USA Give the Hawks the guy on the left and they might be playing the guy on the right for the title. The annual chorus is in fine voice. … See all stories on this topic [...]
Volman
June 1st, 2009
4:41 pm
Whoops, I don’t know why any superstars DO NOT want to come to Atlanta. My fault!
ATLien78
June 1st, 2009
4:42 pm
How about give the Hornets the guy on the right, and maybe they’ll be in the finals as well. Didn’t the Hornets draft and trade Kobe for Vlade Divac back in ‘96? For as much grief as the Hawks get for not taking Chris Paul, the Hornets should get double that for not keeping Kobe. When Chris Paul came out, he had so many questions (height, frame, character issue during the ACC tournement) about his playing ability. Marvin was the consensus best player that year. The year Dwight came out, Billy Knight was trying to move up to grab him (or Okafor) by trading both first round picks, but neither Charlotte or Orlando would move. And as much as I thought Brandon Roy was a good pick for the Hawks, he was nothing more than another Joe Johnson.
Kent
June 1st, 2009
4:49 pm
Arghhhhhhhhh! Can’t we please just move on? How many different ways can it be said that the Hawks should have drafted Chris Paul?
II-Logical
June 1st, 2009
4:51 pm
I believe that the point Mr. Bradley was trying to make is that POOR MANAGEMENT decisions have doomed the Hawks in the past and he is WARNING current management AND fans not to repeat the past!
But with the current incumbant GM’s track record ?????
Astro Joe
June 1st, 2009
4:53 pm
Other than AI’s Philly team, I’ve been trying to think of a team that has won the conference without big-time All-Star front-court player. Detroit had Ben Wallace who was the dominant force in their dominating defense. Until CP3 brings a golden trophy to Nawlins (with a front court that made $32M last year vs. the Hawks at around $20M), I find it a little challenging to believe that he would have led us past last year’s Celtics or this year’s Magic. Unless, of course, CP3 was going to shut down KG or Dwight. And let’s not even discuss CP3 vs. Billups… I’m guessing the little man is still having nightmares about that 50+ point loss. Yes, we definitely would have been better (and far more entertaining), but I doubt the trophy shelf would have looked any different.
Melvin
June 1st, 2009
4:54 pm
Mark,
If the Hawks want to land a star. They better draft John Wall in the 2010 draft. He’s next best thing. Not sure how they will have the opportunity to do that, when they should be good enough to make the playoffs next season… I know wishful thinking. That kid will be wearing a Knicks Jersey in 2010 (can you say Pat Ewing conspiracy all over again).
newkid
June 1st, 2009
5:10 pm
Okay, let’s say you do ‘draft them’. Before you draft them, you must first properly evaluate their attributes and determine who will or won’t be a star. The Lakers pursuit of a young Kobe was far more about effective player evaluation than about luck. Our numerous fumbled opportunities to select difference makers (i.e., a #2, a #3, a #5, and a #6 within what a 4-year span) says our system for evaluating players is about as effective as our offensive schema. Don’t know if Sund brought along his own player evaluation system, or retained the poor excuse that was in place when he inked the contract last year, but his draft history says it doesn’t matter much which is in fact true. If results are any indication, Stevie Wonder would have been as optically astute as have Knight and Sund in critically observing and selecting star talent (love ya Stevie, but there’s a reason you leave the driving to others isn’t there?).
If we had demonstrated an ability to properly evaluate talent, I’d argue that we – provided we had identified a sure fire star – should make the moves necessary with several ‘wanna be star’ players we currently have so as to position ourselves to acquire that REAL star in the draft. But we’d blow the pick sure as hell, and be left with a side even less well suited for competing.
Regarding the draft, if our recent past is prologue, we’re in deep, deep ….
freshd
June 1st, 2009
5:15 pm
Mr. Candace Parker(SW) now plays for the Minnesota Timberwolves. Williams was BK worst draft pick. The hawks could have had a superstar in that draft, but all they got was a LANDLORD who played like a slumlord.
rms
June 1st, 2009
5:16 pm
Those guards such as Roy, D. Williams, CP3 would far better if they were playing in the East vs playing in the West. Just like the Hawks would have never made the playoffs last season with their record if they were in the West and even this year would easily have been a lower seed had they been in the West. I just think the competition is far more competitive from an individual standpoint in the West than in the East.
Dejay
June 1st, 2009
5:23 pm
Yep, right on cue. I knew folks would be here harping about ‘moving on’ and not ‘dwelling on the past’. That’s the problem, Mark. This is the same franchise who has the longest run of not drafting an All-Star/Pro-Bowl player in North American pro sports (25 years and counting) yet we’re supposed to gloss over the fact that we had not one but TWO shots to get a game-changer and blew it? Those blown picks have a direct corolation as to why they couldn’t even compete with Cleveland and the Labrons in the second round, much less why we had to sit through nearly a decade of wretched basketball before they finally back-doored into an 8th seed a year ago.
That’s what makes being a lifelong Hawk fan so frustrating. We’ve seen Miami win a world title. We’ve seen other teams from the expansion era make deep playoff runs. We now see Orlando going to their SECOND NBA Finals. We see all this while our team, whose been here for 41 SEASONS, haven’t sniffed a conference finals since Nixon was in office. In the long-term scheme of things, are we really at the point where we’re supposed to be doing backflips over 37 and 47-win seasons right now?
My question to you and the rest of Hawk nation is how much longer do we have to wait? How many more years do we have to suffer from blown Babcock and Knight draft picks of the past? When are we going to get our payoff for all the years of watching scrubs like Koncak, Glover, Keefe, Gray, Claxton, Edwards, and Shelden Williams collect millions while countless other teams pass us by, all in the name of the ‘process’? How many more Chris Paul commercials we have to sit through before we realize just how bass-ackwards Billy Knight was for 1) passing on him in the first place, and 2) breaking off $25 million to his injury-prone backup a year later, knowing full well that ownership was already having $$$ issues.
I get that they’ve climbed a long way from the Babcock/Kasten/Kruger/Stotts error (spelled correctly). I get that they advanced to the second round. But if you’re satisfied with just that, you may want to talk to a Hawk fan from 1999 or 1988 who watched their teams get stale while the front office blew picks and sat on their hands when the iron was still hot; if you can find any.
Astro Joe
June 1st, 2009
5:24 pm
How many teams won less than 35 games in the West vs. the East? Is it because the teams are so good at the top or because they feast on the likes of the Clippers, Thunder and T’Wolves? Well, if the Bucks, Nets and Bobcats played the Clippers, Thunder and T’Wolves, I’d put my mortgage payment on those Eastern teams.
freshd
June 1st, 2009
5:28 pm
If Ty Lawson or Eric Maynor falls to the hawks they better draft them. Hope they dont screw up again.
Mark Bradley
June 1st, 2009
5:31 pm
I’ve said it before, but even the Hawks insiders who will defend the pick of Marvin Williams to this day have never understood why Billy picked Shelden.
Big Ray
June 1st, 2009
5:33 pm
Mark,
Yes, Billy’s draft gaffes haunt us still. Hard to escape that ghost, but then, some people will always be happy with just making the playoffs every year, and never doing any better than that.
Yeah, two all-star level guards would definitely have gotten us nowhere. Yes, most teams who have won the championship have had a superstar big or something of that ilk. However, I’d rather have two all-star guards and be able to pay money for good solid bigs than have one all-star guard and one guy who is getting paid like one, while not even using the good bigs that we have to the best of their ability.
Welcome to the world of the Hawks….and some of their fans.
jhan
June 1st, 2009
5:33 pm
If all the teams in the West were so good how did so many of them end up with great records? Seems to me that the West was pretty weak after the first tier of playoff teams. Didn’t the Hawks have a winning record against the West?
Big Ray
June 1st, 2009
5:36 pm
Mark,
I don’t understand EITHER pick. I mean, how can you defend the Marvin Williams pick? Even if you CAN, then you HAVE to condemn the coach immediately.
Our highest pick in who knows how long is STILL THE 4TH OPTION ON OFFENSE!!!
Is it because he was never a talent worthy of that pick, or because Woody doesn’t know how to use him?
Pick your poison, I guess….
BrittishAnger
June 1st, 2009
5:38 pm
A star helps, but reliance on star power alone is a failure in and of itself. There is no denying what teams like the Lakers, Cavaliers, and others have with them, but the reliance on star power alone if a failing strategy for this league or any league. Lebronny just got ousted, not because of his star performance or Dwights for that matter, but for what their respective benches did as a back-up for their star. The Laker’s best teams have never been one-man shows; Shaq and Kobe, Magic and Kareem, go back further into those champion teams and it isn’t a result of ONE superstar, it’s several, and a squad backing them up with enough potential power to step up when necessary (Big Shot Bob every bloody time). Look at the years of A.I. in Philly, and the numbers he put up: nobody doubts what a star power he was and still is, but he always did it alone, never with the proper back-up or strategy to get them that elusive championship. While a superstar would help our ranks, it doesn’t make up for a supporting cast which doesn’t support, for lack of better terminology. On the chess board of life, there are pawns, rooks, knights, bishops, along with the Queen and King…and the best player uses each piece effectively, not just one….
on a side note: anybody know how much money Cleavland, in association with Nike and whoever else is fronting the cash, spent in the last two years in Advertising? Seems like such a waste to spend all that dough and not see the results of it….diminishing returns is a mug, ninjas….
Rufus1
June 1st, 2009
5:38 pm
Superstars are not just drafted, they are made. We have and offensive system that wants 5 players to average 15 points a game. What star averages 15 points
Big Ray
June 1st, 2009
5:39 pm
….strange, I don’t remember US feasting on the Bucks, Nets and Bobcats….is it because they were so tough, or because we weren’t as good as we should be?
BugKiller
June 1st, 2009
5:40 pm
Mark, this is something that’s the ultimate catch-22 for the Hawks and Hawks fans.
Because I KNOW for a fact, that Al Horford can become a 20-10, or even a 25-15 SUPERSTAR in the next few years, and if the Hawks got Paul, D. Williams, or Brandon Roy, they wouldn’t ever have had the chance to draft Horfy.
There is one caveat to Al Horford becoming the guy that I (and you) knows he can be: Mike Woodson.
Horford is a four. He’s a power forward. He NEEDS to be playing power forward. NOT center. He will never reach his offensive potential playing center.
But Woodson seems to be immovable on this. I understand, the Hawks don’t have a “true” center, so they must rely on Horfy at the five.
But how much better would this team be with Zaza at center, Horfy at pf, Josh Smith at sf, Johnson and Bibby in the backcourt, and then Marvin Williams coming off the bench with Flip to create an amazingly deep second core of players?
This is what the Hawks must do next year. Find a center / power forward who’s good for 15 minutes a game as a reserve, so Zaza and Horfy can be on the floor at the same time. Then make Williams, a scorer and defensive liability the new Josh Childress, with Flip providing the spark.
A team like that can beat the LeBrons.
Horfy at the four. Imagine the possibilities. I have visions of a more svelt Barkley, or a less ball-hoggy Karl Malone.
Mark Bradley
June 1st, 2009
5:45 pm
Didn’t the Boston Celtics win a title with Kendrick Perkins at center? Is Al Horford not a better player than Kendrick Perkins?
Here’s another exercise. (It’s one Sund asked me to do in our interview two weeks ago.) Name 10 better centers than Al Horford. And I’ll spot you Howard, Shaq and Yao.
Rufus1
June 1st, 2009
5:48 pm
Marvin williams IS best the best player BK drafted. If we had a coach who could develop players, we would know that by now. The best Smooth will ever be is KENYON MARTIN. Marvin has the potenial to be a 240lb Rashard Lewis, who can rebound and defend….If watched the Game against the T’wolves, when he scored 30 points.
Please Rick don’t trade Marvin, YOU WILL REGRET IT!!!!
Dawgs2009
June 1st, 2009
5:49 pm
Thank GOD we don’t have to endure another couple of weeks of his majesty. I have had all I can handle of the LeBron James show. It was so nice to watch the Cavs get humiliated by the Magic, especially after watching the series with the Hawks.
BugKiller
June 1st, 2009
5:52 pm
Mark, I’m not saying he’s not good at center.
But are you telling me he wouldn’t be better at power forward? ‘Cause if you are, you better watch out that your nose doesn’t grow too big.
Al is a tremendous athlete and has a competitive drive on par with the greats, like MJ or Tiger Woods. This is what makes him a good player playing out of position.
He’s a GOOD center.
He’d be a GREAT power forward.
Don’t you see how that hampers him?
Kevin Garnett would have been a good center.
You see where I’m going with this line of thought?
Why hold back someone who’d be truly great at another position just because you can’t work around finding someone serviceable (whom they already have in Zaza) at center?
Zaza is at least as good as Kendrick Perkins.
So let Horford become Garnett. Let him reach his potential.
Otherwise, he’ll just be another good center in this league who’s easily forgotten or lumped in with vast number of “eh” centers from the last ten years.
Mr. Phil (formerly Scoobysnacks)
June 1st, 2009
5:56 pm
You state that you don’t want to beat a dead horse, and then you brutalize the same expired equine. Mark, *hello* the man who made those decisions is gone. Doesn’t anybody know that yet. Why are we rehashing this cow manure. Tell me what we are going to do now, otherwise shut up! Jeez.
Rufus1
June 1st, 2009
5:58 pm
MARK
I agree with you about AL…So who is causing the rebounding problem?
cdog
June 1st, 2009
6:04 pm
MARK, A SUPERSTAR WILL HELP BUT YOU NEED PLAYERS WHO ARE WILLING TO PLAY AS TEAM AND COMMIT TO DEFENSE. DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS.WE HAVE A BUNCH OF PLAYERS WHO DON’T KNOW THEIR ROLES ON THE TEAM.THEY TRY TO DO TOO MUCH ON BOTH ENDS INSTEAD OF PLAYING WITHIN THEIR SELVES. THEY ARE NOT COMMITED TO PLAYING DEFENSE. JOE JOHNSON IS A SUPERSTAR WHO LIKE LEBRON NEEDS HELP. A GOOD BIG MAN WILL ELEVATE NOT ONLY HIS GAME BUT THE WHOLE TEAMS.THATS WHY LEBRON IS REALLY MAD. THE MAJIC PUT THAT DEFENSE ON HIM AND HIS GROUP WHO EVERYONE THOUGHT WAS INVINCIBLE. DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS. LOOK AT DETROIT IN THE PAST.THE HAWKS ARE A GOOD BIG MAN WHO CAN CONTROL THE MIDDLE AWAY FROM TURNING THE CORNER TO AN NBA TITLE
Mark Bradley
June 1st, 2009
6:06 pm
I don’t know why it happened, Rufus, but Josh Smith’s rebounding average dropped from 8.2 to 7.2 from 2007-2008 to 2008-2009.
And I know exactly what you’re going to say: “Because he was out there shooting 22-footers!” Actually, no. His offensive rebounding numbers were essentially the same. It’s the defensive rebounding that suffered. And it shouldn’t have.
Mark Bradley
June 1st, 2009
6:09 pm
And I don’t agree about Horfy being better at 4 than at 5. He looks more comfortable to me with his back to the basket than facing up. (He’s OK facing up, but I really like his post moves.)
I think this is one of those topics we Atlantans will debate for years. KInd of like, “Why doesn’t Bobby Cox play Ryan Klesko against lefthanders?” Or, “How come Jerious Norwood doesn’t get the ball more?”
Brad
June 1st, 2009
6:14 pm
The Chris Paul situation has been run into the ground. We all know about it. No sense beating a dead horse. Just have to look forward to the future.
BugKiller
June 1st, 2009
6:20 pm
Okay, we’ll agree to disagree.
As to Bobby Cox, well, the answer there is that he’s not only the worst post-season manager in the history of Major League Baseball (a historical fact based upon his inept handling of some of the best teams in baseball history in October), he’s also the single most overrated manager in baseball history, the beneficiary of the talent assembled by the greatest GM in baseball history.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 1st, 2009
6:24 pm
You know, watching the Cavs, you know what they lack? A Joe Johnson. Just sayin is all…
Edo River
June 1st, 2009
6:30 pm
While you do safely repeat that the underlying theme of your song is “to flog a horse deader than Man ’o War,” you basically resort to that throughout your article. How many times do you think repeating this will do any good? It is basically sour grapes. This is the issue where you become another splinter under a toe nail to read Mark, it prevents you from rising to a higher rank in sports journalism. I felt the same way about Terrence. It isn’t your technique, its what you focus on. Whining is not going to get you more than the votes that another famous trash radio host gets. Yet, I grant you, you can get a Mc Donalds feast from it. So keep on whining Mark, because that’s the god you have set your talent towards. I hope it makes you satisfied.
willie
June 1st, 2009
6:31 pm
It has nothing to do with not having a center…Horford is more than adequate there. We are missing that one more star player and that will be very hard to find, while keeping Joe at the same time.
rms
June 1st, 2009
6:32 pm
Nice post Dejay, 5:23pm, I agree wholeheartly. I think we are just content with mediocrity all in the name of “process”.
BRAD
June 1st, 2009
6:33 pm
I’ve said this before. Hindsight is 20/20. but if the Hawks had drafted Chris Paul, they would not have HORFORD, BIBBY, or MARVIN. Is Paul better than these 3 players combined–HELL NO!! Perfect example, look what happened to the Hornets against the Nuggets. They were destroyed–including a 58 point loss at home!!!!! Billups was the best point guard on the court during that series. Paul is great, but if he were a Hawk, we would be talking about some kid named Horford, who plays for another team. Horford will be holding down the interior for the Hawks for the next 10 years.
Jody
June 1st, 2009
6:37 pm
Mark,
I’ll have to agree with BugKiller on this one. Horford at the four, with his back to the basket, would have a size advantage and would force double teams as opposed to now. In fact, look at the monster game that he had against Chicago in Chicago as evidence of what he could do nightly with a size advantage in his favor instead of trying to outmuscle guys who are bigger.
Mark Bradley
June 1st, 2009
6:38 pm
Dejay, having experienced both of those Hawks “plateaus” — Rankin Smith word — I can report that part of me wonders if we’re about to happen on another. Given the number of free agents on this roster; given the difficulty in finding immediate help at No. 19 in the draft; given the Atlanta Spirit’s in-flux status … this could easily go wrong in a hurry.
And that — dead horse again — was kind of my point. A franchise only gets so many swings.
Birddawg
June 1st, 2009
6:44 pm
The Hawks may have had there star if they had the right staff to develop them. Is there any doubt that if Joe had Phil Jackson as a coach, he would have at least been second team all NBA, maybe scratching at the door to a championship. This team is much more talented across the board than that star-less Pistons team that won the championship, but if you don’t have proper coaching to take advantage of all that talent, develop the young talent, put players in the best position to be successful and install an offense around the talent that you have, it doesn’t mean anything. This team has several players with the talent to be stars and at least two with the talent to be superstars, but what does it matter if you have a coach that doesn’t know how to use them. Forget paying millions to bring in a superstar, or having the luck to draft one, how about bringing in a real coach that knows how to use the immense talent that they have. The Hawks have improved each year and reached the second round of the playoffs this year in spite of Woodson, not because of him. How far do you think they could have gotten with a real coach?
rms
June 1st, 2009
6:46 pm
Horford would be playing for Phoenix since we still would have traded for Joe Johnson for some strange reason. I think Paul could have helped make some of these players on our roster better like he did for Chandler and West. Being a scorer and a true assist/facilitator is better than Bibby and Marvin. I would have missed Horford though!!!
Brad
June 1st, 2009
6:47 pm
Maybe so Mark. I think we all agree things would be different if we had Chris Paul at PG. But we don’t so lets move on! Dont make things so depressing for us Hawks fans!!
BrittishAnger
June 1st, 2009
6:51 pm
I don’t think I could name 10, but I’ll try….using your three first…
Dwight Howard (best big in overall size and body structure)
Yao (Best in terms of pure height)
Shaq (his record speaks for itself)
Big Z (better shooting center than Horford)
Brook Lopez (every game we faced the Nets, he made Horford look ineffective at center)
Ben Wallace (is everything Horford hopes to be one day for that size of a center, though he lacks the offensive numbers Horford has put up)
Mike Batiste (Euroleague equivalent to Ben Wallace with offensive numbers to back it up, watch some Panathiniakos games and tell me otherwise).
Carlos Boozer (he came as the last great Duke center, and still has the ability to be great, but the same argument (move from 5 to 4) does step into consideration).
That the best I could do, and I had to pull one from Euro to do it, but there are others that I won’t list because of their crappy situations (Chris Kaman, Marcus Camby, Tyson Chandler*). If you look at Horford with Florida, who was behind him at center with the extra wingspan to help control the inside? Jo’ Noah, that’s who. He accepted the role of center because we have been understaffed at that position (Zaza is a great 2nd-team center, and would be a great linchpin in any 1-3-1 defensive scheme either as the 4 or 5, though Randolph Morris and Solo Jones will never amount to anything at a backup center role). I don’t think we could put him back at 4 without some serious lineup changes (depending on how the summer goes, maybe we could). He’s doing alright at that role, but I believe he would contend far better with the PF’s rather than a litany of centers in the league right now (and with Hasheem Thabeet coming in, he’s more undersized than ever). For a running team, he’s a great center, but against any legit half-court team with a taller center, he’s far better playing PF.
Goldie31206
June 1st, 2009
6:54 pm
I understand the statement but with the excepetion of adnormalities like a Lebron James, championship teams have history more than anything, a history of smart decisions. Case in point How can the braves every year pull out gems like a hanson, mccan, and Medlen drafting low but the Pirates can’t put anything together with all the high picks. The answer is history and legacy if you build a culture of winning that’s what you will have. we are in recovery from horrible history. Everyone screams for the Cp3 or Brandon Roy, but how about rebouning from decisions from previous management to wait trade Paul Gasol for Shareef abdul Rhaeem, or hey we need antoine walker for jason terry. Hey how about Steve smith for Isaiah Rider and well keep Dominque from being involved with the club. Not to mention we had a quality 7 footer pass away, Jason Collier anyone. And were complaining after 46 wins. No stars are not the answer ask miami with Dwade, or Lebron James, or Toronto with Chris Bosh, or even San Antonio with Duncan and Parker. It takes a team and history on your side. History brings in A sam cassel and good role players after the trade deadline after their contracts are bought out. IT’s all about team plus who wants to really play with lebron anyway if you win it’s because of him and if you loose it all your fault. Talk about no win If stars won than Pheonix, and Dallas, not to mention those Portland teams remeber they had a front court of sabonis, grant, wallace, bonzi wells, jermmaine oneal. They would have been won multiple championships. SO don’t worry all were on the right path. Out of all those free agents we need Charlie Villanueva the most or a Carlos Booze and watch out. Much love to all
Jay
June 1st, 2009
6:55 pm
The dark legacy of Billy Knightmare continues to haunt the Hawks. He only got two picks right with Smith and Horford. In every single other case, he took a bust (Shelden, Acie) or reached (Marvin, Chills). I dont see us getting over the hump anytime soon unless one of Marvin-Horford-Smith takes a huge leap. Either that or we get EXTREMELY lucky in the draft.
ATLien
June 1st, 2009
7:22 pm
I disagree that you can’t trade for superstars. That’s exactly what Boston did two years ago and they won a championship because of it.
Rather than dreaming about some unobtainable all-star PG or C or some lottery pick we’d have to give up too much to get, why don’t we package a SnT Marvin together with Mo Evans and Speedy and trade them to Milwaukee for Michael Redd. Slide JJ to SF. With Bibby (or Felton if the Bobcats don’t match our offer), Redd, Johnson, Smith and Horford, we’d have a nasty starting 5, and with Redd, other teams would seriously have to second-guess double-teaming Joe.
O'brien
June 1st, 2009
7:24 pm
Najeh Davenpoop, I agree with you. Cleveland would have been great with another Batman like JJ. Speaking of JJ, his contract is up next year, and so is Lebron. if you are Danny Ferry, wouldnt you go out of your way to keep Lebron (and sign another batman like JJ or DWade).
Also, next year is when the big name free agents are available. If a team misses out on Lebron, Bosh, Wade, they might go after JJ as a consolation prize. I think the Hawks need to offer him an extension from now.
BrittishAnger
June 1st, 2009
7:27 pm
I almost forgot…
*Tyson’s situation isn’t as bad as one might ponder, considering people think we’d be a powerhouse with Chris Paul as our PG, but I am not familiar with his stats and can’t make that claim without them.
chas
June 1st, 2009
7:33 pm
The Hawks will remain in the mezzanine level relative to the Nba elite until they overhaul the team. They aren’t bad enough for a lottery pick so they’ll have to get lucky with a trade or dismantle what they have working and start over. The great teams in the past had someone you absolutely had to double team (think Jordan, Olajuwon etc) and had a supporting cast that could knock down threes or drive and score. I think it all starts at the top with Bibby. When was the last time a John Stockton or Chris Paul or a Steve Nash played an entire game with fewer than 3 assists? Bibby has done this numerous times in the regular season and playoffs. Sure, Bibby can fill it up the treys when he is open but a point guard needs to get his teammates easier shots. And this is not a strong enough offense to overcome a point guard who cannot drive and dish. If I were the opposing team diagramming how to stop the Hawks it would be pretty simple:
1) Double team Joe Johnson and make him pass the ball
Don’t worry about the rest of the gang
2) Don’t give Bibby an open three, but make him drive and dish which will not lead to an easy deuce
3) Give Josh Smith any open jumper and make him drive. When he drives get some help if needed… do or don’t foul him and block his shot. He cannot make a free throw or an open jumper so Hack a Shaq if he beats you
4) Let Zsa Zsa do his dance, but block his trash ..you don’t even have to jump
5) Don’t worry too much about Horford. He is a great all around player, but doesn’t have great post up moves because he is a forward posing as a center
6) Force Starvin Marvin to drive or get a hand in his face when he shoots a jumper
7) Help out if Flip Murray beats his defender and make him pass
As an armchair GM and Hawks fan for the last 30+ years, I still have no idea where you go from here. Hawks have never advanced past the second round in the playoffs and it doesn’t appear they will anytime soon.
Mark Bradley
June 1st, 2009
7:41 pm
Chandler isn’t as good as Horford. Ilgauskas isn’t as good as Horford. (Can’t defend.) Ben Wallace isn’t as good as Horford. (Can’t score.)
I’d count Tim Duncan as a center, even though the Spurs have always called him a power forward. And I’ll give you Boozer, even though he’s listed as a PF, too. So that’s five. Brook Lopez? He averaged 1.5 more points a game (but took 250 more shots). Horford averaged more rebounds and assists. So I’d call that a push.
So that’s five centers better than Horfy, with Lopez being in the neighborhood. See what I mean?
lawton
June 1st, 2009
7:41 pm
the lottery is fixed. the first time they trotted out that “accounting firm” to make you think it was above board, i knew it wasnt. sterns runs the nba like a circus. its a TRAVELING circus. every team (market) must have a superstar. know way billy knight was that dumb to wiff on paul, williams and roy. sterns made those decisions, the same one he made when he used the hawks to get wallace over to detroit.
RA
June 1st, 2009
7:43 pm
You know, it must be a figment of my imagination, but I could have sworn that the Hawks survived the first round of the playoffs, and Chris Paul didn’t…. Or did I blink?
You know, this isn’t really what I do, but I’ve got a new hat idea for Nike to be maketed in the Orlando area. In the center it should read WITNESS 4-2! And on the sides there should be some fancy design on it that says EASTERN CONFERENCE CHAMPS. And on the back, and this is completely optional you understand, they could say something like LBJ is a classless punk. Like I said, not exactly what I do, but the design came to me in a dream. God I hate Cleveland!
Melvin
June 1st, 2009
7:47 pm
What about Andrew Bynum? I would add Bynum to that list. Matter of fact, I would do a Horford for Bynum swap….
Mark Bradley
June 1st, 2009
7:47 pm
And David Stern wanted Deron Williams in Utah, as opposed to Atlanta? And Brandon Roy in Portland? And Chris Paul in New Orleans?
Uh, no.
Mark Bradley
June 1st, 2009
7:51 pm
Bynum’s a talent. But he has also been in the league four years to Horford’s two. (Horford is a year older, though.) And he plays with Kobe and alongside Gasol. And he hasn’t done much of anything this postseason. (He’s averaging 6.3 points in the playoffs.)
LouHudson
June 1st, 2009
7:53 pm
First of all for the record, Karam Adual Jabbar was the best player in NBA player ever. 6 titles in the modern era along with the most dominate shot ever. Forget Jordan, Magic, or Bird, If you ask any GM what player he would take first to build a team, it would be Jabbar hands down. The Center is foundation to building a championship team until the Hawks accept this reality, they will never compete for a title. The Hawks must control the lane to win big playing Horford out of position is not the answer. Marvin, their 19th pick, and Law are all trade bait for obtaining the best possible options for solving their main problem(no inside persent). Trading for Thabert (not likely), but Kamam or Pryszilla are real possiblities neither are great, but both can rebound on both ends as well as bang/defend. Again S & T with Marvin and Claxton(expiring contract), resign Flip & JChillz, resign Bibby at a reduced rate(or him let go), Jarrett Jack an option, resign Solo.
Become a defensive team and win a championship!
Sund, go make it happen!
Harpie
June 1st, 2009
8:16 pm
Why have the Hawks crapped on Acie Law?
Melvin Flowers
June 1st, 2009
8:25 pm
Move the Hawks out of town. Its to many owners fighting makeing the news yearly.
We need a new team with a one man show Authur Blank. He’s a Winner a great owner my choice in Macon Georgia. Falcons owner Mr. Blank does what it take to be champions. The Braves needs to roll out of town also.
pete babcock
June 1st, 2009
8:31 pm
Jay,
Acie Law is not a bust, when he leaves and go to a team with a decent head coach he plays his bench, he will suceed.. the pick that will hunt us for ever is the Shelden Williams0 over Brandon Roy…Roy will be a top 10 player in 2 years…Marvin over Paul was not a terible pick hell how far has paul got? Acie could be just as productive if given the fair chance..People talk s… about Marvin but he has been solid without plays called for him..Childress is better all around than deng and AI so who should we had taken it was a weak draft.We need to trade up in the draft and get Thabett.
BrittishAnger
June 1st, 2009
8:38 pm
Next year, I might give you Ben Wallace as not being in that list (Horford is one season away from a legit double double average and a +1 to his blocks as well), but Wallace this year was as legit of a defensive player as you can get for being on a team where you aren’t even the starting center. If the Detroit Pistons had kept the original Larry Brown core, Ben Wallace would still be among the top Centers in the league, even with Kwame and McDyess being there ….I’ll buy your argument in one year, but Wallace has a championship and didn’t need the scoring potential to help make it happen….
And Ilgau’ is a better center than Horford, though Horford would be a better player if he were still playing at PF….Ilgauskas scores more efficiently for a minor drop in rebounds and their block numbers were pretty comparable. Zydrunas’ numbers aren’t without their own little asterisk, considering Varejao is really a 2nd center playing effective 3-2 schemes with Big Z alongside him…if the Cav’s don’t resign Z, next year Varejao will be huge and worth putting on that list….
And Bynum is a far greater bust in the long term than having Al at the position…he should be a lot bigger, a lot stronger, a lot more of an influence, but if the Lakers lose this series, he’ll be the reason why…
RICHIE RICH
June 1st, 2009
8:40 pm
EMEKA OKAFOR, MARCUS CAMBY, CHRIS KAMAN, MARC GASOL, TIM DUNCAN, NENE, AL JEFFERSON, MEHMET OKUR, RASHEED WALLACE, & ANDREW BYNUM…..THAT’S MY TEN
niremetal
June 1st, 2009
8:44 pm
Uh….if we had Chris Paul, HE’D have Bibby’s money. So we wouldn’t have a big man. I’m not missing Chris Paul. Deron Williams yes, Chris Paul no. And we still wouldn’t have a big man, so I promise you – we wouldn’t be in the East finals.
I would not trade Marvin Williams and Al Horford for Chris Paul.
brent a.
June 1st, 2009
8:50 pm
The Hawks have done quite well in terms of year-over-year improvement over the last 5 years.
What they need, now, in lieu of a superstar, is a grizzled veteran who can come in and teach this team how to win the big games.
Even championship-caliber teams need these guys, which is often how they become championship-caliber teams in the first place.
When Phil Jackson got to LA in 1999, he brought along both Ron Harper and John Salley, two guys who had won titles with him in Chicago. Their presence on that young, talented Lakers team was invaluable as the Lakers went from an annual play-off disappointment, to the best team in the league in Jackson’s first year.
Remember the impact Sam Cassell had on both the Timberwolves (2004) and the Clippers (2006)? The Hawks are already a good team. Add a tough-minded veteran who can come in and be a coach on the court (like Chauncey in Denver was this year), and we could actually see the Hawks in the ECF a year from now.
haleydawg
June 1st, 2009
8:50 pm
bradley, i thought basketball was a team game, lebron is slowly becoming a me player like kobe, i was sorry to see la go to the finals, denver is a bettew team and orlando should run away, kids should be taught the virtues of a team play as the game of basketball is going extinct on mainstream because of showing off like a iverson
brent a.
June 1st, 2009
9:00 pm
Mark,
Bynum “hasn’t dome much of anything this post-season”, because once again, he’s coming off an injury.
He was never able to get into a flow in the first two rounds due to early foul trouble, which were largely the result of him not being in (play-off) game shape.
He was fine in the Denver series (check out his numbers from the series-shifting LA win in Game 3 at Denver). He’s not always going to put up big numbers every night, as the Lakers objective with Bynum, Gasol, and Odom, is to throw something different at you almost every game, especially coming off of a loss.
In LA, in particular, his (scoring) numbers don’t tell the whole story of the impact he has on that team. His presence alone, always requiring a big defender, does wonders to free up his teammates. It is his sometimes loafing on defense that has gotten him pulled from so many play-off games (when fouls weren’t the issue).
Which brings me to Horford. He is never an issue defensively, and his offense is coming along just fine. Horford probably actually brings more over-all skill to the court than does Bynum. Bynum was actually a late-bloomer, and really hasn’t played basketball that long. He was drafted at 17 and was put to work with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Each time he has appeared to get into a flow offensively, his season’s have been cut short by knee injuries.
Horford, OTOH, is a 2-time college champion and a world-class athlete. He was ready to step in and play in the NBA right away.
Each player has the potential to become a big star. But if the two were to be traded for each other right now, I think that Horford’s career would continue to flourish, while Bynum’s development would likely take a step back.
brent a.
June 1st, 2009
9:03 pm
If you want to see team basketball, then LA is a fine example to watch. Regardless of any issues (perceived or otherwise) Kobe may have had in the past, LA runs a beautiful offense in which multiple players are scoring threats.
People should get past their pre-conceived notions about Kobe and realize that LA is a great TEAM.
That’s not me saying that they will beat Orlando, that’s just me pointing out the facts.
Denver lost 2 of 3 home games against LA. It’s time to quit saying they were the better team.
JK
June 1st, 2009
9:06 pm
why is everybody hatin on the HAWKS!!! MY GOD, we won 47 games and reached the second round. its very possible that we could have made it to the conference finals this year if half our lineup wasnt hurt. we proved we could play with the cavs when we beat them in december and shattered their 11 game winning streak. we have a solid team. one of the youngest teams. with a STAR in JJ. KG said it himself that he is the most underrated player in basketball. Josh Smith will be star and marvin williams has a lot of potential. yall r crazy..
JK
June 1st, 2009
9:08 pm
and dont forget horford. hes a beast that just needs a chance to become a force offensively.
rms
June 1st, 2009
9:11 pm
Matchups make a huge deal. You cant compare one team playing against another and say that the Hawks would do better. Certain teams match up better against the other. The Hawks barely made it past the second round but if they played maybe the Bulls that probably would have been an upset of maybe the Pistons it wouldnt have been close. It just depends on how your team matches up with other teams. The Hornets just didnt match up well against their opponent, just like the Cavs didnt match up well against the Magic. The Bulls vs. Celtics was just about even it just came down to execution and knocking down key shots.
Granger
June 1st, 2009
9:21 pm
You say you want to get Eric Maynor, but he won’t be there. Trade up and get the man. Trade Marvin Williams to move up in this years draft and get a first round draft pick next year. Take Maynor and with your 19th pick, take Tyler Hansborough. He is as good as Marvin Williams, right now. He will bring life to this lazy bunch. Only one person has outplayed Tyler in four years and that would be Blake Griffin, the first player picked in this years draft. Your starting five would be, Josh Smith, Hortford, Zsa Zsa, Joe Johnson, and Bibby. Your first two players off the bench would be Maynor and Hansborough. Yall want to get players on potential. Hansborough plays hard every night and maybe this would rub off on the all the other lazy ones. Law had potential, and where has he been? On the bench!! You act like you can’t move off of the 19th pick. Tyler brings hustle and toughness that this team needs. You can’t count on Williams. Every little injury he gets and he is out of the game. Just make the trade!! It is not that difficult!!
rms
June 1st, 2009
9:21 pm
aint nobody hatin on the Hawks, they just got some serious roster issues to address this season or else that 47 win season will be just a distant memory. As far as Marvin is concerned, having lots of potential and actually maximizing it are two different things. How long are we going to be saying Josh and Marvin are going to be a star vs saying they actually ARE STARS!!
kool kid
June 1st, 2009
9:24 pm
they need to stay together not lerf anybody go
Red Boy
June 1st, 2009
10:16 pm
Marvin Williams is going to be a star. I just got a feeling rick Sund will do something stupid and trade him.
kool$kat
June 1st, 2009
10:36 pm
Its the curse of Dominique…Hawks have sucked since he was traded.
Big Ray
June 1st, 2009
10:42 pm
Again, naw we don’t need one of those great pgs. We’ve got Bibby. Hurray.
I love this “if we got this person, we wouldn’t have THAT person.”
Tell me, what are Marvin and Al doing now (no offense to them) in Woody’s wonderful offense. Nothing CP3 or Deron couldn’t do, that’s what.
And guess what? Woody values the pg spot a hell of a lot more than he does the 3 or 5. Get the drift?
Mark Bradley
June 1st, 2009
10:54 pm
Big Ray knows the game. Just sayin’.
UGA
June 1st, 2009
11:02 pm
Superstars?
Dwayne Wade, Vince Carter, Iverson, Danny Granger, Derrick Rose—–
The Hawks had a better record than all of these teams!!
O'brien
June 1st, 2009
11:02 pm
I agree rms. We keep saying how Josh and Marvin are still young, and if they had gone to college, then blah blah blah. I understand that part of the problem might be the offensive system (or lack thereof), but how long do we continue to wait on their potential to be maximized?
The Hawks have a #2, #3, #5 and #6 pick, and none of them are allstars, not even close (Horford has a good chance to become one, given time). And Horford might be a top 10 center, but the Hawks will continuosly struggle against teams that have legit 7 footers (Brook Lopez gave us trouble), especially with Woody’s system (and Bibby’s defensive deficiencies), because Josh, Al and Marvin are only 6-9. We need a defensive presence in the front court (like Gortat from Orlando), even if its off the bench.
Mr. Bradley, I raised this question on Sekou’s blog, and I would like to get your thoughts. Given that Toronto is worried about losing Bosh when his contract expires next year, what do you think it would take to get Chris Bosh to Atlanta (I assume Josh Smith would have to be included)…And do you think that’s a move Sund would make (given we dont know if Bosh will sign an extension with us)?
Dan
June 1st, 2009
11:05 pm
Enough of the Chris Paul stuff already!! God!! Mark, you were doing so well on your Hawks coverage only to write this garbage. There is no insight to be gained by this. You’re telling us that the Hawks would be better if they had Lebron/Kobe/Howard….OK….Stay tuned next week, everyone! Mark will tell us that the sky is blue.
You could go back over the draft history of any team and find mistakes. Joe Dumars gets credit for being a terrific GM, but he drafted the only bad player in the ‘03 draft. It happens.
At least Marvin can contribute. You want to rip Billy Knight for a bad pick? You should be focusing on the Sheldon Williams pick. That was far worse. He took a player at #5 that could not even play in the league.
Mark, c’mon….push yourself a little harder than this…
Mark Bradley
June 1st, 2009
11:08 pm
O’Brien, that’s a good one. (And please, call me Mark.) Bosh is mighty tempting, but your point about him not re-upping is massive. Would you gamble four more years of Josh Smith, who’s a year younger, against what could be one year of Bosh?
I wouldn’t. I say it again: In two years Josh Smith will be the best player on this team. (And that’s even if Joe Johnson stays.)
Mark Bradley
June 1st, 2009
11:09 pm
I believe I made reference to “two guys named Williams.” I wasn’t forgetting the Landlord.
kirkinga
June 1st, 2009
11:19 pm
Yes having a superstar seems to be the path to glory in June, but that’s just a surface level question. The real question is having the right mix of superstar(s),role players, and health. That;s the way it is in all professional sports.
There are teams with more superstars than either the Lakers or the Magic. The Rockets have two, the Celtics have 3, the Spurs have 3, the Suns, arguably have 2, the Mavericks at various times had 3.One wonders if the Lakers and Magic are in the Finals if the Celtics, Spurs, and Rockets are fully healthy?
A quick note on Marvin, the reason he was drafted was because the consensus was he had the most upside of any player in his draft. Better basketball minds than Billy Knight felt the future pay off of a Marvin Williams beat any immediate (and possibly limited) help from a PG.So if we are going to be flawless in our hindsight, we best take more than just the Hawks to task for an incorrect evaluation of Marvin Williams.
The Truth
June 1st, 2009
11:19 pm
Mark here are 11 centers that are better than Horford right now:
Dwight Howard, Yao Ming, Shaquille O’Neal, Al Jefferson, Marcus Camby, Pau Gasol, Nene, Chris Bosh, Brook Lopez, Tim Duncan, Amare Stoudemire.
We can debate where Al Horford fit in this group but if Sund is satisfied with our center being in 10th place in the league, than it validates a perception we may have about him. Maybe bold and aggressive should not be the appropriate words to describe his tenure but rather complacent, satisfied and conformity should be a better depiction of him. I hope I’m wrong about him but we shall see. The litmus test for Sund is a simple question; is he planning to win a championship or just being competitive?
Ted Striker
June 1st, 2009
11:21 pm
Mark — I kinda liked the ‘flogging a dead horse’ reference
brent a.
June 1st, 2009
11:24 pm
I think I would definitely trade Josh Smith for Chris Bosh.
Mark Bradley
June 1st, 2009
11:27 pm
Hey, Ted. Long time no hear. I referenced you (affectionately) on another blog installment earlier.
Mark Bradley
June 1st, 2009
11:29 pm
Brent, I would, too, if all things were equal. But would you trade Josh, who’s under contract for four more years, if you weren’t sure Bosh would stick around the ATL after 2010?
Ted Striker
June 1st, 2009
11:30 pm
Truth: I wouldn’t mind having the 10th best center if my guards and forwards were top ten too.
rms
June 1st, 2009
11:31 pm
UGA: Two of those players have at least been to the finals or won a championship and had to start all over. There was a time when they were better than us but who’s counting that. You got D. Rose who led his team to the playoffs in their first year and gave the NBA and the watching world to witness the best opening round in a long time if not ever! and by the way just because you hire the assistant coach of a team that won a championship doesnt mean you can duplicate the same thing. The Pistons didnt have like 30 owners trying to sue each other and fighting in court and despite blotching that 2nd pick (and passing over D-Wade and Carmelo the GM has a good idea of running a team. Only now is that mistake starting to catch up with them. Atlanta on the other hand has a GM who in my opinion is questionable at best and ownership truly is a joke and even more of a joke when they try to justify themselves in the newspaper and on the radio. Just saying….