How the Atlanta Hawks just might stay together after all
Given that Rick Sund only went one-for-two on keeping last summer’s key free agents, the inclination is to think he might pull a Jeff Francoeur and bat .250 (or worse) this time around. But I’m thinking Sund will do better. I’m thinking the Hawks have a real chance to keep this team together, provided two things happen:
1. The economy stays bad.
2. Nobody gets mad.
“I like the core of this club,” Sund said this week. “I’d like to keep as much of it together as I can.” His endorsement is a major factor: It means he likes what he has and wants to add, not subtract.
Sund inherited last summer’s free agents, and it’s no secret he valued Josh Childress less than ownership did. The fractious Atlanta Spirit actually gave the new general manager permission to exceed the salary cap on Childress – you can do that to keep your own free agents – and Sund declined.
Sund has a clear idea as to what he feels guys are worth. He took a media hit, in this space and others, for letting Childress leave, but Sund stuck to his numbers. (Note also that Sund didn’t offer Mike Woodson, whom he says “did a good job this year,” a contract extension Thursday.) If it’s reasonable to assume this GM doesn’t see the 32-year-old Mike Bibby as worth $15 million, which is what he made last season, it’s reasonable others won’t, either.
A lot of real money has been lost these past nine months, and even the millionaires who own NBA teams aren’t worth what they were. If the economy doesn’t spike upward the next five weeks, Free Agency 2009 isn’t apt to be a flurry of free spending.
Is another club apt to see Bibby as its missing piece and hand him, say, $10 million a year? (At his age, there’s no way he gets $15 million from anybody.) Is any team apt to see Marvin Williams, who made $5.6 million last season, as worth $9 million? (Remember, Josh Smith got $58 million over five seasons last summer, and that was because the economy cratered. And Smith is clearly the better player.)
Loading ...A bad economy favors the Hawks, who have committed only $40 million for 2009-2010. (The salary cap was $59 million in 2008-2009.) A bad economy would allow Sund to say, “You can take a bit more cash to go lose games in Minneapolis, or you can stay where you know something good is happening. Your choice.”
Sometimes that pitch works. It didn’t with Childress because he saw playing in Greece as a life experience, not just a career move, and it didn’t because what GMs called “the spite factor” kicked in. Childress thought he was worth more and got mad when Sund disagreed. Bibby might do the same. So might Williams. More than money, spite will be the determinant of this offseason.
Two guesses: Flip Murray will re-sign with the Hawks – no GM likes Flip, who has played almost everywhere, more than Sund – and Zaza Pachulia will leave. The destinations of Bibby and Williams seem more a coin flip, but the Hawks do have this working for them:
The coin in question? It’s no longer a silver dollar. It’s one thin dime.
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203 comments Add your comment
UGABAN1111
May 22nd, 2009
6:52 pm
CAN PEOPLE STOP SAYING BIBBY CANT PLAY D. DAMN WE KNOW THAT BUT THE REASON HE CANT PLAY D IS BECUASE WE PLAY SWITCH DEFENSE. WE CAN HAVE CHRIS PAUL AS OUR PG BUT IF THEY PICK AND ROLL AND PAUL IS LEFT ON LEBRON OR ANY SG HE WILL GET TORCHED TOO. IF WE PLAY STR8 UP DEFENSE AND ROTATE QUICK INSTEAD OF SWITCHING WE WOULD BE WAY BETTER!!!!!
AND STOP SAYING TRADE MARVIN, DAMN HE GOT HURT FOR THE FIRST TIME AND PEOPLE JUST WANNA TRADE HIM, I DNT HEAR PEOPLE SAYING TRADE HORFORD SHID HE GOT HURT TOO!!! AND STOP SAYING HORFORD IS SOOO GOOD, TO ME HE DOENT EVEN DO NOTHING. HE HAS NO LOST POST MOVES AND IS AN UNDERSIZED CENTER. IF ANYTHANG TRADE HORFORD.
James
May 22nd, 2009
6:55 pm
keep zaza and flip murray and get rid of marvin williams, acie law and soloman jones.
Atlanta Journal Constitution » Blog Archive » How the Atlanta Hawks just might stay together after all
May 22nd, 2009
7:10 pm
[...] Mark Bradley | ajc.com – [...]
RealSquawk
May 22nd, 2009
7:47 pm
Marc,
One of the interesting things you got out of Mr. Sund was that he was fine with the Hawk’s size. Which, makes me think and correct me if I am wrong, that Al Horford is our long term solution at Center.
That is one scenario the other is that he plans to acquire a center and slide everyone down putting Josh Smith as a sixth man in a Lamar Odom role.
That would make the team extremely dangerous if all the pieces fall in the right place. bibby, Joe, Marvin, Horford, Center
2nd unit. flip, josh, mo, josh, zaza, david anderson.
That seems like fantasy, but it is possible and would be extremely dangerous.
I still don’t agree with the whole Marvin Josh debate, but only time will tell so I am going to sit back and be patient.
ET
May 22nd, 2009
8:38 pm
I think we should trade our rights for draft pick Pal Gasol to get J.R. Rider… that will take us over the top. (Or was it for Harrington? I get confused!!!)
freshd
May 22nd, 2009
8:52 pm
Hey Bradley, COURTNEY LEE was the 22nd pick in the 2008 draft and he is starting for ORLANDO in the playoffs against the LEBRONS. I don’t RICK SUND”S theory on playing rookies. Why don”t he ust say WOODY prefers vets. Oh yeah, LEE is averaging 12 points per game in the playoffs.
freshd
May 22nd, 2009
8:53 pm
buy
brewdawg
May 22nd, 2009
9:51 pm
Mark,
Jeff S. has a good article on our favorite debate topic. I highly recommend reading it.
dap01
May 22nd, 2009
10:52 pm
Forget drafting anybody. Woody will be playing for another contract, forget developing anyone, forget an offense. Let’s have a statue PG in Bibby and a pound, pound, pound SG offense.
Hopefully Sund will have a couple of tricks up his sleeve. Get us a defensive center, a veteran PG, develop AC and pick up another shooter like Jarvis Hayes.
dap01
May 22nd, 2009
10:54 pm
By the way, great coverage MB!
Miles D
May 23rd, 2009
12:29 am
I say resign everybody! However, JS is the most expendable. He STILL can’t consistently hit the mid-range J after 5 years in the league and makes too many mistakes in critical situations TRYING to be something he’s not a SUPERSTAR…hell he’s not even a STAR…just an ATHELETE! At this point we need much more and I just don’t believe he is the one. I mean you do the math! 1. Bad attitude. 2. ALWAYS into it with coach. 3. STILL making poor decisions with the baskeball. and 4. NOT really a 3 but NOT really a 4…then what the hell is he! I say trade him in the draft, get Thabeet, and lets get on with it! I just gives OUR TEAM an identity something our TRUE fans desperatley have been wanting and need! OH! And by the way…I am FROM Atlanta! College Park to be exact!
MannyT
May 23rd, 2009
12:38 am
chuckw…O’brien nailed the core of the Chills problem. He has to opt out of that Olympiakos contract this summer for the Hawks to get any value for him. Bottom line, I think both Chills and Sund would say I’m just not that into you.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/2009-05-22-373411029_x.htm
I am a Chills fan, but I don’t see it happening in Atlanta unless he has found an outside shot and 30 lbs of muscle.
You bring up valid points about the defensive needs of the team.
As for the shut down defender, unless there is someone out there you see on the cheap that is big enough (height AND weight) to defend Lebron, Marvin is one of the best available. Not that he is a star defender, but he has gotten better. He also makes those guys work on defense.
The banging big man might slow down Howard, but it’s too hard to stop him. I am not worried about Big Z’s inside game, but he easily shoots over our bigs. Josh has to slow down KG, but Al is not big enough to move the fire plug, Kendrick Perkins–who will rebound, but not drop 20 on us. Orlando has a choice to make, pay Hedu and the luxury tax or let him go. If they pay Hedu, Gortat (or more likely Battie in magic beans trade) might be available. If not him, that’s where you look to deal the Claxton contract and possibly AC Law to get a big man.
The on ball defender solution has options. As I mentioned before, you can try to go big with another combo guard that can run the point…check out what Shelden’s brother in law (Anthony Parker) did when Calderon was out in Toronto. Might find similar success with Marquis Daniel (Indy) in a trade.
If it is Sund’s preference, we can also find our own speed demon (TJ Ford available? They started the less expensive RFA, Jarrett Jack toward the end of the season.)
FYI–One benefit of being the 2nd pick, Marvin’s one year tender is over 7 mil.
BWAF
hawksfan4life
May 23rd, 2009
12:43 am
Please don’t resign Mike Bibby: HE CAN’T PLAY D!!!!!!!!!!!!!
dap01
May 23rd, 2009
7:38 am
The reason I say that Bibby can not play defense if because he is slow and not physical at all. He is the least agile guard in the NBA. He can’t jump at all.
I like Bibby and I want him back. The point that I would like to make is Woody will never use Bibby as the role player that he is. Woody will run him in the ground (with Joe) just like this year because with with Bibby and Joe, no offense if required, simply jack up the 3’s.
Bibby will be very valuable as a 20 mpg guard but that is all.
TJ
May 23rd, 2009
7:52 am
Mark, how much money will the Hawks receive from the league (TV contract, etc.)? I am curious what percentage of the payroll is covered by shared revenues.
new cars
May 23rd, 2009
9:20 am
Would we be better with Bibby and no Marvin or with Marvin and someone like Jarrett Jack at the point…We may miss some of Bibby’s big shots, but we would be able to keep Flip and get a little more out of the other guys with more of a pure point guard…Everyone keeps talking about Chris Paul and I would love to have him, but I have my doubts about that working out…But what about Raymond Felton from Charlotte…Good citizen, good all-around point guard who can push, distribute and score…If we could take an assett and get him, then we could take the draft pick and take someone like Terrence Williams from Louisville who could give Joe a breather and extend our bench….On another subject…I hope they have a backup plan if Woody refuses to use his bench early in the year and continues to wear out the first 7…That was part of the problem in the playoffs.
James Banks
May 23rd, 2009
9:53 am
SI’s Ian Thomsen thinks the Hawks need another all-star to go with Joe Johnson in order to reach the championship contender level. If that’s true, could the Answer be the answer for the Hawks?
Think about this starting five: Allen Iverson and JJ in the backcourt with Marvin, Smooth and Horford up front?
Mike
May 23rd, 2009
10:26 am
Mark, the one-year qualifying offer for Marvin is 7.3 million, not 6-plus. That’s what makes working out a deal so hard. Do the Hawks really want to offer him a multi-year deal worth, say 8 or more million a year? Probably not, especially with questions about his back. But he probably won’t sign a multi-year deal that gives him an average salary less than the 7.3 he gets just by accepting the qualifying offer.
braveshater
May 23rd, 2009
10:28 am
Marvin has terrible feet and balance, therefore will never be more than a 3rd option on any team. We should trade him, Acie, the 19th pick, Childress, and cash to New Orleans for Chris Paul.
MBZ
May 23rd, 2009
11:23 am
Marcin Gortat is someone we need to target. He is,unlike Pachulia, very athletic and could turn into a defensive force of the bench. Our lack of size really hurt us in the playoffs and he is probably the best finisher at the rim available outside of B.J. Mullens, whose draft stock is going to rise considerably. Mike Bibby cannot run this team. It is far more likely that the pg spot is run by committee but flip isnt the guy that should do it. He plays best off the ball. Eric Maynor is too good to drop to us at 19. I think that this team can grow from the inside but it has to do primarily with coaching. The offense can be run through Marvin Williams at certain times during the game, Josh smith needs to work on his MID RANGE Joe needs to be not run into the ground just for the Hawks to make the post season. But that takes a coach that cares about developing his bench and trusting Acie Law to do what he was drafted to do…run this team. Free up the offense, move the ball, sign some bangers inside, and play/develop the bench. and Sund’s phone will be ringing off the hook in the offseason of 2010.
ILL-logical
May 23rd, 2009
11:34 am
Watching last night’s game-playoff basketball at its best,inspite of the officiating-made wonder if Josh Smith had a coach who was invested in his devlopment like Mike Brown is in LaBron’s, where could the Hawks be today.
A bit of history.Josh was drafted as a 3but woodson put him at 4 to get his athletic skills on the floor for HIS system to work. I don’t recall any public comments about improving shot selection or ball handling skills .
Now back to the present. I hope that Josh was watching the game and imaging how his team could be engaged in a series of this magnitutde and motivate himself to do the work that will take his athletic skills ,equal in many respects to LBJ’s, and solicit help in developing his game just as LBJ has done over the years. Not to equate what Josh with LBJ but to point out to some of the short history participants on this board, that LBJ coudn’t hit the outside shot and was a mediocre foul shooter earlier in his career. Plus he had to play in effect three posistions on a just fair team.
Josh doesn’t have to be the whole show here nor do I believe that he wants to. However, he can be a feared offensive weapon at the 3 because of his physical advantages over almost everyone but LBJ. With a better and more consistant shooting touch he can increase the offensive capability of the team while continuing to be the energy ,crowd exciter that he is today.
Last night LBJ made me sit up and take notice of how far he has come beyond the media hype and how hard he worked for it.and the role his coach had in growing and developing him as a player and a leader. A great lesson for all of us sports fan or not.
Mark Bradley
May 23rd, 2009
12:03 pm
You’re right, Mike. So Marvin is going to want more than $7.3 million to re-up for the long haul. Which means I think him taking the one-year deal and becoming a free agent after next season makes some sense — especially in light of current economic realities.
Sautee
May 23rd, 2009
12:47 pm
MannyT,
So am I hearing you right…. let Bibby walk and use that 15M elsewhere?
Jody
May 23rd, 2009
1:10 pm
Mark,
Do you think that if Marvin Williams decides he wants more than the Hawks are willing to pay him, they might consider someone like Charlie V., a free agent of the Bucks who’s a great outside shooter, instead?
Mark Bradley
May 23rd, 2009
1:26 pm
Sautee, Bibby’s not going to get $15 million from any team. I doubt if he’ll get $10 mil.
Charlie V. would indeed be an option, I’d think, if only for his Twitter prowess.
J-MAN
May 23rd, 2009
1:35 pm
I’d trade Joe Johnson, Acie Law, and Zaza and the #19 pick to Memphis for Rudy Gay the #2 pick and Marc Gasol if we could get him and draft Tabieet because we GOT KILLED and HAVE BEEN KILLED in getting rebounds the past 10 years and the Cleveland series show our flaw to the whole world and if we resign Bibby for 6 mil for 2 years and give Marvin a J-Smoove type contract and give flip about 5 mil for 2 years will work for me
O'brien
May 23rd, 2009
2:00 pm
I’m sorry, but if we continue to play Josh at the 4 and Al at the 5, we will always be undersized (how do we match up with Denver, Lakers, Houston, Magic, Celtics, Cavaliers etc). regardless of what Sund thinks).
One reason for keeping Josh is if he ever gets his head together, and develops a consistent jumper (even if it’s only 15-18 ft), can you imagine the mismatches he would create on offense? And although his man defense needs improvement, he has very good help defense. Plus if he ever played for a coach who had an offensive system, and knew how to use him, the sky is the limit for Josh.
In my opinion, the sky is not the limit for Marvin. Although he still has room for improvement, he is what he is. And I dont think he will ever live up to the potential that BK (or Dominique) saw in him.
That being said, if we can trade Josh for a combo (2 out of 3) of legit Center/PG/draft pick, then I think Sund should look at it seriously…
Jody
May 23rd, 2009
2:15 pm
Mark,
It would make sense for Charlie V. to be an option because, offensively, I think the Hawks would benefit from having a big who could draw opposing bigs away from the basket and possibly force other teams to have to guard Josh Smith or Al Horford in the post single coverage and sometimes with smaller players.
Jesse
May 23rd, 2009
5:34 pm
We need Darren Collison or Chase Budinger (let Marvin go or sign & trade). Collison is a VERY VERY good FT shooter. I’ll really miss Mike Bibby and his veteran leadership/knowledge. I hope we can keep Flip Murray and keeping Zaza is must.
Sautee
May 23rd, 2009
6:03 pm
Mark, don’t misunderstand me. I NEVER thought Bibby would get even $10M.
Manny had posted earlier (if I read him right) that money towards Bibby’s salary would be better spent elsewhere. At least that what I THOUGHT he was saying.
And he mentioned $15M because that was what we paid THIS year, and therefore IF we were letting him walk, AND were willing to spend the same amount overall, then…. you get the picture.
Manny?
Ken Strickland
May 23rd, 2009
9:15 pm
Why do people keep saying the Hawks are undersized? The Phoenix Suns were one of the winningest teams in basket when they we, so called, undersized. It wasn’t until they decided to get bigger that they started to faulter. They were at their best when their tallest starter was 6′10″ C AStaudamire, and their next tallest starters were 6′7″ SG JJohnson and 6′7″ PF SMarion.
The Phenomenal One
May 23rd, 2009
10:15 pm
Eric Maynor or Ty Lawson would definitely be a good look for the Hawks! Fingers crossed that they’ll still be around when the 19th pick comes up. No more forwards please. So Terrence Williams from Louisville is a no go in my book. N-O M-O-R-E F-O-R-W-A-R-D-S!
Jody
May 23rd, 2009
10:17 pm
Ken,
Here’s a few reasons why:
1. The tale of the tape in comparison to other teams who are still playing shows the Hawks are undersized.
2. The fact the Hawks struggled to rebound the ball throughout the regular season and in the playoffs shows they are undersized.
3. They struggle to get easy baskets in the half-court set which great teams do not.
4. All of those Phoenix Suns teams were built to win alot of regular season games but never won a title. When playoff time came, they struggled to defend the painted area which always got them ousted. If the Hawks goal is to win a title someday, they need to build the team in the mold of an actual champion and not a team who simply won alot of games and nothing more.
Truth-serum
May 23rd, 2009
10:27 pm
J-MAN
May 23rd, 2009
1:35 pm
I find it hard to believe that the playoff and the season clearly demonstrated out inability to defend the post….In case Sund or Mo dumb Bradley are reading defending the post in Basketball is a-kin to defended the goal in soccer or the goal in hockey or football or for that matter most sports… lets start with fundamentals: to defend the post means to alter shots,block shots, pull down offensive rebounds and force the opposing center to the high post or the perimeter. As in chess center control is dominating….My bad Im trying to get Mo dumb with Sund’s attention, im sure he doesnt understand chess. Horford is a good pf and can give you minutes at the center post but is not longstanding match for a true NBA center. For all you Z”the expressway to the bucket is now open” supporter, the man had the starting job as center with the hawks. He lost it because he cant man the position. Ill grant him that he is physically a NBA center and he pushes and shoves with the best of them but he cant Man the position and it seems that he is a continuous turnover. Dude. Let it go. He cant Hold the post and he lost his starting Job to a powerfoward. Just keeping it real.
Back to fundamentals, on the offensive end you want to move the opposing center off the low block and open lanes for your slashers like marvin and josh and joe…that way you wont find Josh deep on the wing because the other teams seven footer is clogging the middle. This normally requires some weight on your center someting Horford does not have. Your center must also finish consistantly in the low block something Zaza cannot do and something Horford cant do against the big men and he must resort to his lane shot,. The reason this is imperative, Dumb and Mo Dumb, is that it forces the other team to drop down into the low post to defend and there by making the range of outside shots smaller and the percentage of made shots higher.
There is a role for Marvin who can go 2 or 3 and can draw the fouls Joe cant. 3 years from now Joe wont be in Marvins league. Joe is Good and still the lead man. He can do it all. Theres room enough for Josh and Horford because they play different roles. Joshs plays 3 and 4 horford plays 4 and 5. They blend very well together and if they had a center like the U-Conn center or even the back up from Chicago Grey, Shaq has 3 strong years left and proved this year he can still take over a game when the shots dont fall he can and will dominate any center in the post. With shaq on this squad this is a final four team no doubt. Yeah, he can run and open lanes for the J and H assualt team.
Camby is still a great pick!! There or lots of true centers available that can finish and defend the post. So stop whinning saying there arent any. Do your home work.
The bottom line is you wont get past the second round with Horford as your pf playing center and for sure you may not get out of the first round with Z top this turnover Pachulia.
Here is the nucleus of the team, J.J. Josh, Marvin, flip and Horford and Woody (just keeping it real). Build around this crew. Get them a center and were in the final four…. with what you have in salary cap room and trade material with Bibby(sign and trade), Za”have you seen this turnover before”Za,Acie law, solomon,and the GA tech guard you can get a good center another point and money left over.
Woody did his job even though you insulted him with your lack of a contract offer.
Now do your and get him a CENTER!
Sam Wetherson
May 23rd, 2009
11:45 pm
Yeah I have to agree Truth Serum. People are really under estimating Marvin Williams. The guy is super efficient and seems to have enough sense to drive to the basket when his shot isn’t falling. JJ has to many 7-24 nights. I mean at what point do you stop shooting. Josh SMith is the better athlete but Marvin Williams is the better play and is a lot smarter. Josh Smith will not play to his strenghts. His blocks were way down this year. We better keep MArvin Williams!!!
Steve
May 24th, 2009
4:01 am
Oh man, please tell me JChill is staying in Europe. I don’t want him ANYWHERE near this team. His ’show up one game out of three’ skills can’t touch Evans or Flip. Our bench is why we were SO much better this year, and that was without the most overrated player in the NBA from last year.
Look, JChill was scrappy when he tried, but for every lose rebound he got under the basket, he let his man beat him down court at least twice for easy baskets. Just because he made some nice offensive rebounds and putbacks on a highlight reel, everyone overlooked the fact his penchant for sneaking to the basket left the fast break WIDE open for the other team. Maybe if JJ and Bibby didn’t stand around watching so much it would have been ok, but I was getting so tired of seeing JSmith being the only one getting back on D whenever JChill was in the game. I can’t figure out why so few other people noticed that. Evans played much better for the Hawks, though it would be hard to notice because he wasn’t on the highlight reels every game. There is more to basketball than a few offensive putbacks.
Oh, and just because CP3 is a star, it doesn’t make him untouchable. They are losing so much money there right now that they are going ot have to do something or close the whole thing down. He is the main thing keeping them in the top half of the NBA in attendance, but they are just not getting money from the corporate level that they need.
It boggles my mind how good the attendance is in New Orleans/OKC, and it’s all because of CP3. If there is any chance at all of him being available, the Hawks had better be all over it. They have as much young talent and expiring contracts as almost ANY other NBA team, so they really would have no excuse not to get involved in talks at the very least.
Veteran Fan
May 24th, 2009
11:24 am
Let Bibby and Zaza go and find a younger free agent pg. Trade Josh and Law for Chris Bosh. Sign Gortat and resign Murray and Marvin. Or trade #19 and Marvin to Memphis for Conley. Line up Bosh, Horford, and Gortat rotate at 4 and 5. Johnson,Murray, and Marvin rotate at 2 and 3 and new pg and Evans rotate at 1. Good defensive matchups and plenty of offense and rebounding! Bibby is an expensive luxury whose legs are done and Josh could put people in the stands in Toronto and Bosh wants out. If you keep #19 draft like you would normally.
Mitch
May 24th, 2009
11:33 am
Mark, maybe I’m wrong, but if I were the Hawks, I would make every effort to keep Zaza and Bibby, and if need be, let Williams and Murray go.
The way I see it is this: Zaza is the big man in the middle, needed for presence/defense, etc. While we know that Bibby can be off at times, the guy is also an explosive scorer at times. While we know that teams can win championships with only two scorers, (Shaq and Kobe, Michael and Scottie). Bibby to me is in his prime, and just too valuable to be allowed to walk away.
Keep Zaza and Bibby, or, if you can only keep one, then keep Bibby. This team has had a such a long, difficult climb to respectablity, that it would be pitiful to see them take signifcant steps backwards, due to losing major free agents.
Mitch
Ken Strickland
May 24th, 2009
12:00 pm
JODY-our frontline’s so called lack of size isn’t the reason for our rebounding woes.
(1)The poor positioning of our frontline players is a major problem. Woodson has gone almost exclusively to a switching DEF and teams have learned to take advantage of it. They use pick and rolls with their PG/SG’s and C/PF to force a switch and mismatch. That’s why we consistently see JSmith, AHorford, ZPachulia or SJones(when he plays) isolated away from the basket trying to defend against players like DWade, CPaul, LJames or KBryant. The switch also leaves our PG’s and SG’s trying to defend and rebound against their C’s and PF’s. We accomadate teams attempts to create mismatches against us by not even trying to fight over picks. Is there any wonder why we consistently get pounded on the boards?
(2)When you consistently play your frontline heavy mins during the season it’s not surprising to see them become leg weary and outrebounded over the course of the season. Against Both Cleveland and Miami Woodson chose to battle their frontline by forcing heavy mins on ZPachulia, JSmith, MEvans, and injured players like AHorford and MWilliams, rather than play our healthy bigs like OHunter, SJones or even RMorris. Even when Zaza was ejected in gm 3, and we were getting pounded with him in the gm, Woodson refused to give his remaining frontline players any relief by using the remaining BIGS on his bench.
(3)When you have a PG that plays a matador type of DEF and is unable to offer any type of DEF pressure on the ball, it forces your frontline players to have to cover by rotating to his man, which takes them out of rebounding position and often creates foul difficulty for them.
Having weary legs from being overused and playing a DEF that allows your frontline players to be consistently taken out of rebounding position has far more to do with our rebounding issues than our so called lack of size or height. JSmith’s blocked shots are way down because he’s not able to rotate over and protect the basket since far too often he’s out on the floor trying to guard quicker faster PG’s and SG’s.
Everyone has complained about him being out on the perimeter shooting 3’s when we should also complain about him having to be in the same position on DEF. Look, we managed to win 47gms with a flawed OFF/DEF system, as well as limited strategy and bench use. That tells me this team is talented enough, tall enough and big enough to do even better if it can overcome all of that. They just need better direction and an OFF/DEF system that better utilizes their talents.
jhan
May 24th, 2009
12:23 pm
Ken – I can’t disagree with your reasoning. It just makes sense. Even though I believe this team still needs 2 more big bodies off the bench. I suppose Woody will have to actually play them.
Mitch – where was Bibby during the playoffs? Can you really count on him to produce when we need it the most? He totally disappeared when we needed him this season
Sautee
May 24th, 2009
3:09 pm
Ken S
Big co-sign on that, buddy!
Mark Bradley
May 24th, 2009
3:17 pm
Except for Game 7, Bibby was quite good against the Heat.
Truth-serum
May 24th, 2009
3:22 pm
Veteran Fan
May 24th, 2009
11:24 am
Hummm. You are thinking for sure. I do like Bosh But I am really believing Josh is a set shot or jump shot away from being the next great superstar and Yea, he can put fans in the stands in Toronto…but he puts them in the stands here in Atlanta too.
I do like your premise that we need a larger force at center…Chris Bosh is a force. I like your direction.
speaking of center needs
Ken Strickland
May 24th, 2009
12:00 pm
It’s clear you don’t have a clue and your hater attitude for Woodson won’t allow you to see reality.
Za did not play overworking minutes…Dah. There is no excuse for his lack of athleticism or his humongous amount of turnovers. There is no excuse that he lost his starting job to a power forward because he can’t jump or block shots, or force any true center off the post. He may be a nice guy but he can’t finish in the post. Any special rotations Woody would have made would have been to shore up his lack of talent or his inability to protect the post.
It was so blatantly clear in the playoffs that opposing players attack the rim whenever he’s in the game. ESPN and TNT commented on the fact that whenever he’s in the lane to the cup is green lighted. If he were any count he’d be starting, like he used too. Double Dah!
Why it is all the pros can see this but you can’t? (Help me spell Woodson Hater)
Za-top this turnover-Za did not play mega minutes ala JJ or Horford. That’s a poor cop-out! Clearly we need a center. Hate is blinding.
Your tangent had no real substance or value to it, just a lot of abstract reasoning that you used to mask your dislike for Woodson. Ray Charles could see that.
I will grant you that Bibby is a liability defensively.
I dont know what games you were watching but the way teams handle Bibby is to back him down to the low post and then shoot over him or dunk. In a perfect world a true center would not allow that and the shooter would be forced outside for lower percentage shots. What games were you watching? You do have a good imagination. The post players dont need to rotate out to help Bibby, his man is going to back him down to the center spot!
Who wouldnt?
He and Pachulia have the same vertical leap.
Ken Strickland
May 24th, 2009
12:00 pm
Truth-serum
May 24th, 2009
3:29 pm
Ken Strickland
May 24th, 2009
12:00 pm
Did I mention how slow ZaZa is?
Truth-serum
May 24th, 2009
3:30 pm
Sautee
May 24th, 2009
3:09 pm
Shouldnt that be co-sign on that BUBBA?
Jody
May 24th, 2009
3:37 pm
Ken,
I don’t disagree with anything you said. In fact I agree with what you said. However, there’s a reason a guy like Jermaine O’Neal (a major reason the Heat series went 7 games) went off on us and why guys like Big Z and Varejo did whatever they wanted to against the Hawks. It didn’t matter who the hawks put on them, they were too big and skilled for the Hawks frontline to handle. When opposing teams bigs are 3 and 4 inches taller, you can try and box out all you want, if they want to go and get the ball, they will.
Lastly, consider the psychological effect. Currently, teams score inside against the Hawks sometimes at will. No one fears the Hawks inside. Teams drive the ball because they know no one big enough to make them alter or change their shot is back there. That’s not the case with the teams who are playing right now while the Hawks sit at home.
Truth-serum
May 24th, 2009
3:37 pm
Ken Strickland
May 24th, 2009
12:00 pm
THE MORE I READ YOUR BLOG THE FUNNIER IT GETS. I DONT RECALL EVER SEEING PACHULIA GUARD KOBE OR LABRON… YOU ARE FUNNY MAN!
BY THE WAY LABRON AND KOBE PLAY 2,3 AND 4. 99.9% OF ALL COACHES PUT THEIR MOST ATHELETIC PLAYER ON THEM AND CERTAINLY THAT WOULD NOT BE ZAZA WATCH THIS MELTDOWN PACHULIA.
DID I MENTION THAT HE IS SLOW?
Truth-serum
May 24th, 2009
3:37 pm
LEBRON
Truth-serum
May 24th, 2009
3:39 pm
Jody
May 24th, 2009
3:37 pm
ILL CO-SIGN THAT!!
BosnianBaller
May 24th, 2009
4:20 pm
Ronny Turiaf really Bradley.The guy has a horrible contract.