This just in! The 2008-2009 Hawks did OK for themselves!
We’ve kicked around the Hawks, sometimes pretty hard, these past few days, but amid all the discussions regarding who’s to blame — Woody? Joe? Red Auerbach? — a greater truth has been obscured if not missed entirely. So here goes:
The Hawks won more games than they should’ve and lost exactly when they should’ve.
They were 37-45 in 2007-2008. They improved 10 games without adding a starter. (And despite losing the Grecian earner Josh Childress.) They moved from the No. 8 seed in the East to the No. 4 seed. They won a first-round series over the No. 5 seed. They lost in Round 2 to the top seed. I’ve been a harsh critic of this franchise over the past quarter-century, but I’d say these Hawks gave good value for what they had.
And what exactly did they have? Well, according to the All-NBA team released Wednesday, not all that much. Joe Johnson finished 19th in the voting, which placed him among the honorable mentions, and no other Hawk received even a single vote. (Heck, Jermaine O’Neal received a single vote.)
In the postseason, they beat an opponent (Miami) that had a first-team All-Star and lost to one (Cleveland) that had a unanimous first-teamer. In the regular season they finished behind one Eastern club (Orlando) that had a first-teamer and another (Boston) that had a second-teamer. In a league where stars drive the bus, should we have expected any more from the Hawks?
Not really. Oh, it’d have been nice if they’d given the Cavs a run, but with three starters injured that was never going to happen. The bottom line: This is a talented team but not a great team. Nobody had a breakout season. Not one Hawk finished among the league’s top 10 in scoring, rebounding, assists, steals or blocked shots. Neither Josh Smith nor Al Horford received a vote for the all-defensive team.
Me, I’d say they did OK for themselves. But maybe that’s just me, and maybe I’m getting senile in my old age.
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85 comments Add your comment
wxwax
May 13th, 2009
6:01 pm
I agree completely.
Overall, this has been a good season. At one point I worried that a blowout sweep to the Cavs would undo all the good the Hawks had achieved this year. But the team showed some spunk at Philips, thank goodness.
The good thing about making it to the playoffs is that the heat of those battle distills your team’s strengths and weaknesses. It becomes obvious what needs to change in order to improve.
I think it’s clear that leadership is a glaring weakness in the locker room. If that’s the only change Sund makes this off-season, the Hawks will be an improved lot.
Jt
May 13th, 2009
6:02 pm
What is most troubling about the Hawks is that they did exactly what they set out to do. All year they have said their goal was to get homecourt advantage in the first round and advance to the 2nd round of the playoffs. I heard it all year long. They did it. The bad thing about it is that their goals were set low, but realistic. All Woodson has to do is improve each year. He has done that. Now they have to raise the bar- they CANNOT go backwards next year. Neither management nor coach can afford that. The question that remains is exactly WHAT is needed to go to another level. There are lots of opinions about that- conflicting opinions( see Bradley and Schultz). I don’t know what is needed. I hope Sund knows as Dimitoff knows the Falcons. We will see. The Cavaliers have “one goal”. It ain’t homecourt advantage and 2nd round win. Hopefully next year the Hawks management will make the decisions needed to “go to the next level”. We will find out. They cannot afford to go backward or remain stagnant.
Charlie
May 13th, 2009
6:11 pm
Mark,
if your the GM, what moves do you make in the offseason?
Reid Adair
May 13th, 2009
6:14 pm
Mark, I would agree that they did OK for themselves, for all the reasons you mentioned. I think the question is how much more can they improve without roster changes, possibly significant ones.
Mark Bradley
May 13th, 2009
6:16 pm
Why, Charlie, I’m glad you asked. Here’s where I’d start.
Hawk Str8Talk
May 13th, 2009
6:29 pm
Mark,
Let me ask you this – do you think that maybe we set low expectations of this team in the first place? If we went based on start of season expectations, then you are absolutely correct. Unfortunately (or fortunately), I changed my expectation of these Hawks in game 7 vs. the Celtics when I saw them give the defending champs all they could handle to lose their first game of the season. That team was fighting, playing transition basketball, using its bench, and focused.
Somewhere during the season that level of effort, focus, and strategy disappeared, so if you start with the original expectation – you’re right. If you began to see where the talent and focus could take you, then I’m not sure you should be excited about what you saw down the stretch. I am definitely one to give a realistic view of the Hawks chances, but going to 7 vs. the Heat and not coaching and playing our hardest (not to be confused with best) is what is most distressing. Think of the other teams in the league who have had their heart and toughness questioned and you see teams that are vastly more talented and well coached – those teams haven’t won titles for those reasons primarily (Dallas and Los Angeles immediately come to mind, Orlando is about to reach that level).
The point of the NBA season is to seed you for your run at a NBA title. Our run at the NBA title was woeful in relation to our run to be seeded for that title. Your thoughts?
O'brien
May 13th, 2009
6:32 pm
Mr. Bradley, one concern with the Hawks is the way they lost games. And how many times have we heard players/coaches say “We came out flat” or “We did not play together”, or “We had no intensity”. To me that’s unacceptable. Yes, we are a young team, but this is Josh’s 5th year, and Marvin’s 3rd. Flip, Bibby, Mo Evans and JJ have been playing a while. I think the Hawks are short on bench talent, but one of their biggest weaknesses is lack of leadership, and no offensive system. And that needs to be addressed.
Hawk Str8Talk
May 13th, 2009
6:33 pm
As JT said, our goal should be a NBA title, not home court advantage, not the 4th seed…I question a team who exhibits the lack of heart and toughness and consistent effort no matter what the results of that output. That’s what is more disheartening than any result offered by this Hawks team this season. I certainly would question your assertion that we lost exactly what we should have and won what we shouldn’t have. The statistics do not bear you out on that one. We certainly lost more games to teams we shouldn’t have than defeated teams we shouldn’t have.
F.I.L.A.
May 13th, 2009
6:36 pm
Mr.Bradley,
Considering who you guys are and who you work for, I know yourself and Sekou have somewhat an inside scoop on what the hawks plans our for the future..With that being said, What do you see them doing with Marvin Williams?? If they trade him I promise you this, They will regret for years to come and it would be a huge mistake by Rick Sund…
Also….What do you see happening with Bibby,Zaza,Flip,And J-Chill??
If the hawks knew what was best for their future they would do whatever it takes to draft Johnny Flynn(Next Superstar PG) Hes going to be a stud for a long time..
Thanks and look forward to hearing from you!
brewdawg
May 13th, 2009
6:45 pm
Good post O’brien.
Reggie
May 13th, 2009
6:54 pm
Mark
I remember you saying we should draft point guard Eric Maynor from VSU. What would he bring to the table? Also what other players do you think would be here when the hawks pick that the hawks should think about drafting?
The Peach
May 13th, 2009
6:55 pm
I agree wholeheartedly MB. And to respond to F.I.L.A, I have been keeping up with Flynn and I think the Hawks need to take him as well. He’s expected to fall within the 15-20 range and with the 19th pick we need to take advantage of him. He can do everything that Bibby can’t…my only concern is his lack of size but isn’t that why the Hawks missed the opportunity to draft CP3?? And look at him now…size or lack thereof, can be overcome.
As a Hawks fan, I love Bibby but he needs to go unless he can take a MASSIVE pay cut. The emergence of Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Rajon Rondo and Derrick Rose has shown that you need a quick, dynamic point guard with the ability to penetrate, get in the lane and break down defenses. Bibby can’t do any of these things and his best days were left behind in Sacramento
Mark Bradley
May 13th, 2009
6:59 pm
Marvin is a tough call — he’s not a bad player, but he’s not an essential player, either. Do you want to pay him $10 million a year to score points but ultimately to defer to Joe and Josh and Al and Bibby come the crunch?
Me, I wouldn’t. I’d try to work a sign-and-trade.
As for Maynor: He can penetrate and shoot, and I think he can distribute the ball, too. But I don’t know if he’ll be around when the Hawks pick. (They’ll go around 20th.) I hope he is.
Bleu_Bayou42
May 13th, 2009
7:09 pm
They have been blistering the Hawks on talk radio. Bottom Line, you switch Lebron James with Joe Johnson and the Hawks sweep the Cavs. It’s not that the Hawks are that bad of a team, it’s just that Lebron James is that freaking good. I can’t wait to see the Cavs destroy Boston or Orlando next round. Outside of Lebron James I would not trade one of our starters for one of Clevelands starters. That’s how good Lebron makes the players around him play. He’s a freak.
We can only get better through the draft and add to what we have. There is no in the league currently available for us to sign through free agency or trade that is going to put us in better position to beat the Cavs with a health Lebron James. If there is I haven’t seen him.
We gotta resign Bibby.
I am ok either way on Woody.
The Peach
May 13th, 2009
7:16 pm
But a sign and trade for who? I wish we could do a sign and trade for Chris Kaman or some other capable center…and draft a YOUNG point guard. Sorry but I don’t want an Andre Miller on my team…people keep bringing up his name. He’s 32 for pete’s sake! We need a young stud!
Mark Bradley
May 13th, 2009
7:23 pm
Chris Kaman is a good name. Anderson Varejao is a good name, and he’s a free agent. So is Denver’s Birdman.
And I wrote yesterday that I wouldn’t mind a sign-and-trade package of Marvin/Acie for Ronny Turiaf and Brandan Wright of Golden State.
The Peach
May 13th, 2009
7:38 pm
I’m not a fan of Varejao but I would love him if he was on my team. Haha. he’s just one of those players that you hate him if he’s on the opposing team but you adore him if he’s on yours.
But with all that he has done for the Cavaliers, why would they be stupid enough to let him go? He’s an integral part of their frontcourt and without his intangibles they wouldn’t have had the success they had this season.
glw
May 13th, 2009
7:46 pm
Everyone keeps saying we need a center. Sure, its ideal to have a serviceable offensive center, but as long has been the debate, what do we do with Horford and/or Smith? Smith isnt a 3 and not sure he will ever be. And to get Kaman, we almost certainly would have to give up something of value in return.
I go back and forth with Marvin and Bibby. Like Mark said, Marvin is solid, but isnt essential. But Marvin’s solid play is what might be needed more than anything. I think he might end up in a situation like Ben Gordon, where the offers dont come, most teams are probably going to hold there money until next summer and not want to give out big contracts this year, and the Hawks are going to only do what the market dictates.
As far as Bibby, the wait and see approach will work best too. Im not sure there is a market for Bibby and his greatest value is to the Hawks by far. But Bibby brought more heart than any other player I saw for the Hawks in the playoffs. I like him back but in a reduced role, and he needs to be paired with a quick penetrator either through the draft or Acie Law.
Marcus
May 13th, 2009
7:50 pm
I am glad to see this type of blog … I think the tenor of the 5/12/09 blog went downhill and folks just piled on, despite some of its salient points. Ithe emotion of getting swept by CLE probably didnt help the mood from fans.
I think the team as a whole acquitted themselves well, despite not having any ‘08 draft picks, a GM transition, and losing a valuable 6th man in J-Childress. Not to mention the continuing sagas in coaching (tossed Woody a 2-year extension/bone) and ownership (ASG, need I say more).
We can only hope that Mr. Sund will provide management leadership to be able to weather the upcoming roster and ‘09 draft decisions and NOT regress.
Good job Hawks, look forward to ‘09-2010.
Endymion
May 13th, 2009
8:05 pm
I think even more than just the Cleveland series, the Hawks chances of going further than the 2nd rounded ended when Marvin hurt his back and was not able to play much the last 20 games of the season. The other injuries just kept adding to the problem. Healthy, I would have expected the Hawks to still lose to Cleveland 4-2. They still need to add a true center so Horford can move to PF and backup center. But great job Hawks. You made us proud with your fight and never giving up!
Endymion
May 13th, 2009
8:07 pm
Forget switching Lebron and Joe. Just add Atlanta-native Dwight Howard to the Hawks and they go all the way.
Astro Joe
May 13th, 2009
8:09 pm
It’s all relative and in a town with very infrequent playoff appearances from our professional teams, having a squad that not only makes the playoffs but actually does more than make a token appearance is refreshing. It feels like it has been 10 years since either the Braves or Falcons advanced beyond the lobby of the post-season. Yet, somehow, we spent several days clowning the Hawks for losing N THE SECOND ROUND to the team that almost assuredly will walk away wth the golden trophy. And losing to a team that each and everyone of us knows is far superior to the Hawks. We’ve seen the Braves and Falcons lose to inferior foes in the post-season, this was NOT the case. I guess we’re so dysfunctional that if our team can’t go straight from the cellar to title in one magical season, then we don’t want them there at all. Some teams have to take incremental steps toward greatness. I know, difficult concept for some.
tjhook
May 13th, 2009
8:16 pm
Mr. Bradley, you are onto something with the sign-and-trade. I want to mention the San Antonio Spurs as a potential team to trade with. Marvin Williams is a luxury for the Hawks but we need a scoring playmaker along with a low post threat. I recommend this move: Williams and maybe Speedy Claxton to the Spurs for George Hill and Drew Gooden. The Hawks need to make Flip Murray the resigning priority and you can bring in two players with athleticism and a strong defensive mentality.
The Peach
May 13th, 2009
8:20 pm
Agree with you Astro Joe but what can you expect from fans of the worst sports town in America? Yeah I said it…and I’m an ATL native born n raised. I’m just being honest though so please don’t get offended.
The fans in this town have very little knowledge about what it takes to create a contender. Atlanta won’t be a contender until 2011 IF we make the right coaching changes, draft picks and roster additions. The fact that we made it to the second round was a miracle based on the schizophrenic games in the 1st round, so how could anyone realistically expect us to beat Cleveland?
Mark Bradley
May 13th, 2009
8:22 pm
As I recall, the Spurs were thought to be one team interested in working a sign-and-trade for Josh Childress before he fled to Europe. But I can’t imagine anybody being interested in Speedy.
The Peach
May 13th, 2009
8:25 pm
LOL at Drew Gooden having a strong defensive minded mentality. I’ve seen him play several times this season when he was with the Bulls…before he got injured. Any Bulls fan will tell you he’s a terrible defender of opposing power forwards…in fact that’s the main weakness to his game. He’s a good rebounder and midrange jump shooter but that’s it.
Mz. Fan of an Okay Team with a Honorable Mention Player
May 13th, 2009
8:28 pm
This just in! The 2008-2009 Hawks did OK for themselves! Yep, they did! Can’t argue with that! 10 wins improvement from previous season, 3 games short of 50, homecourt in the first round, from an eight seed to a fourth seed, made it to the second round but got swept. Uh huh, that’s okay.
Reaching your goals is okay, reaching your goals and doing a little more (maybe at least win the 3 games at home in the second round) is good, but going beyond your goals ( upsetting the Cavs, winning Division). Since the Hawks achieved most of their goals set, fell a little short on the wins column, then based on my previous reasoning, I’ll have to agree with you, Mr. Bradley, the Hawks did okay.
And what exactly did they have? Well, according to the All-NBA team released Wednesday, not all that much. Joe Johnson finished 19th in the voting, which placed him among the honorable mentions, and no other Hawk received even a single vote. (Heck, Jermaine O’Neal received a single vote.) Hmmmm, 19th out of 450, honorable mention, that means Joe got some recognition. So Mark, if the NBA had a fourth All Defensive Team, then Joe Johnson would be on it? Right!
Mz. Fan of an Okay Team with a Honorable Mention Player
May 13th, 2009
8:37 pm
Oh come on! Everybody knows Lebron’s great. It’s already been established. Who cares unless you are a fan of his or a fan of the Cleveland Cavaliers.
Since this is a Hawks blog in an Atlanta paper can we please stick to everything Hawks and leave the Lebron adoration for Cleveland and the rest of the NBA. OKAY!
Mark Bradley
May 13th, 2009
8:44 pm
Dwight Howard? Good idea. I’m sure Orlando would trade him even up for Othello Hunter.
Mz. Fan of an Okay Team with a Honorable Mention Player
May 13th, 2009
8:44 pm
Scratch the All Defensive Team, I meant the All NBA Team, Mark. With Joe finishing 19th would he be on the fourth team if they had one?
TheAntiMe
May 13th, 2009
8:45 pm
As things currently stand it very much appears to me that this is a good news/bad news situation for the Hawks.
The good news:
The Hawks did continue to improve both in the regular season, as well as in the playoffs.
The bad news:
Although the Hawks front office made some needed but very limited additions to the roster over the last offseason, they still very much lack the type of player to allow this team to become one of the NBA’s elite teams i.e. Cavaliers, Celtics, Lakers.
While the Hawks progress this season is encouraging, it very much remains to be seen whether the ASG ownership will care enough about the team or the fans to spend the money necessary to allow the Hawks to be able to compete with the elite teams for an NBA championship. Unfortunately, all of the evidence from previous offseasons under the ASG would seem to indicate that the answer to this vital question will be an emphatic “NO”.
RA
May 13th, 2009
8:48 pm
Well gee wiz Mark. How nice of you, coward. You know, your remarks would have meant a lot more if they’d been used to temper the firestorm that was unleashed on this team durring and after the playoffs, a firestorm of criticism that you helped unleash. It took two days of finger pointing and some of the harshest criticism that I’ve ever seen leveled at a team that made as much progress as Atlanta did this year for someone in the cynic’s camp to finally take an objective look at the regular season, and the playoffs and really give an honest appraisal of what happened. Didn’t think it’d be you, but miracles happen every now and then. Now, I’m not one to give a pat ont he back when someone deserves a swift kick in the you know what, but for a team that worked as hard and accomplished as much and had such terrible misfortune as Atlanta did to be exposed to so much anger and negativity, it just makes me sick. And you really might want to rethink trading away Marvin Williams, maybe you know of another 6-9 player that could possibly shoot 40% from beyond the arch, I don’t know many.
Don’t get me wrong Bradley, I agree with most of what you said, I just really wish it hadn’t taken you two painful days to say it.
Mark Bradley
May 13th, 2009
8:49 pm
This offseason is a major test of these owners, and also of Rick Sund. No question.
And Joe would have made the fourth team. If there was one. Which there isn’t.
D Hawk
May 13th, 2009
8:59 pm
Does anyone remember how many games Cleveland won last year? 45. They lost in the second round of the playoffs also, and the only key additions that they made were Mo Williams and LeBron James’s “focus”. Now I’m obviously not trying to compare anyone on this team to The Chosen One, but the Cavs essentially added an 18 points per game scorer to their core offense which allowed LeBron to play 3 fewer minutes per game.
Five keys this offseason for the Hawks:
1. Find a way to reduce Joe’s minutes either through additional players getting increased playing time or by delegating more of the offensive load to Josh and Horford.
2. Re-sign Bibby but don’t overspend. Sign a true point guard.
3. Sign a legitimate center so that Horford can move to PF and Josh to SF; this would maximize both players’ talent.
4. Develop Acie Law as a swing/backup guard along the lines of Jason Terry.
5. Re-sign Marvin if the price is right. Sign and trade if we can get help but he’s one of the few outside threats on this team. That will need to be replaced if he goes.
howie
May 13th, 2009
9:02 pm
I think if the Hawks resigned the 4 players that could leave…MA, Bibby, Flip and Zaza….we could see them win 5-10 more games next year….they are young and all 3 forwards still have upside. Their goal should be to improve again, like they have for the last 3-4.
Do not blow this team up! That being said, I do not see the the team being exactly the same as this year. I would be disapointed to see them make a bunch of moves and then win 45 games.
It is nice to say that we should have higher expectations but unless we add a superstar we probably are not winning a title. Their goal should be to improve. Period.
bigeasy830
May 13th, 2009
9:14 pm
I hear many on talk radio saying the Hawks should blow this team up to avoid losing in the 2nd round every year the way Mookie and Steve Smith and Mutombo did, well why blow up a team that have just improved to make it to the second round. It is very hard to evaluate this teams performance in the play-offs. We made it to the second round but looked bad doing so because of injuries. We all know Al can play better than he did but he was playing on one leg. Marvin is much better than he showed but he catches flack because we keep dreaming of what could have been with CP3 or Deron Williams. In respect to Marvin’s restricted free agency status, I say we resign him unless some team make him an offer that would be insane for us to match. Marvin still has some developing to do, but he is what he is and that is a very talented player that just does not have that killer instinct. We can resign him and keep Bibby as long as they don’t make ridiculous demands on the contracts. I don’t see Marvin getting J-Smoove money of 10 mil per I say he gets 8 or 9 and so does Bibby which is slightly more than what Bibby got all of last year. Then the 2010 season we get from under Speedy’s horrible contract and free up money for Joe and Al. We only need to tweak it not blow it up.
bigeasy830
May 13th, 2009
9:21 pm
DHAWK, great post, I believe A.I. would put this team over the top and make us a legit contender. If we lose Bibby, I say roll the dice on A.i. that would definitely lessen the load on Joe. A.I.’s ability to penetrate and score would make every player on the court with him so much better offensively. i think he got a raw deal in Detroit, they blamed him for the demise when that team have been fading for a couple of years now. How many people would have given Ron Artest a chance before last season now look at the impact he is having on that Rockets team. And speaking of the Rockets, what about a sign and trade Marvin and Speedy’s contract for T-Mac, if he could stay healthy his scoring ability would also make us a contender, but i like the A.I. scenario better.
Bill Miller
May 13th, 2009
9:23 pm
I think they had a good year. They improved and will continue to improve. Three starters injured in the play-offs makes a heck of a difference. Let’s hope for a fully healthy next season.- and maybe the return of Josh childress. It doesn’t sound like he likes it over there too much.
Mark Bradley
May 13th, 2009
9:25 pm
Blow up the team? Another good idea. We all know how much fun it was to watch the Hawks lose 69 games in 2004-2005, don’t we? That’s wholly preferable to being eliminated in Round 2, wouldn’t you say?
Give me a break.
bigeasy830
May 13th, 2009
9:33 pm
I agree with you 100 percent Mark Bradley but, some on sports radio have made that suggestion. I think it is insane. We have improved to the second round we are not stuck in a rut. I believe that if we keep this same team together we win 50 and the South next year. Looks like trouble in paradise for the Magic. The Coach and star player battling it out in the media. Some calling Van Gundy the king of the panic mode. There will definitely be some fall out from that situation that may have a negative carry-over to next season unless they win this series against Boston.
Mark Bradley
May 13th, 2009
9:37 pm
Obvious remedy, BigEasy: Stop listening to sports radio.
And you’re right: It’s not a rut when you improve by 10 games. It’s progress.
RA
May 13th, 2009
9:38 pm
I must be sick. Mark Bradley is beginning to sound like the voice of reason.
bigeasy830
May 13th, 2009
9:44 pm
Mark the Music that the radio stations play in Atlanta is so bad, my choices are listen to the foolishness on sports radio or a station playing a song called the “DO THE STANK’IN LEG”. I need to hear what is going on with the traffic so I picked my poison and it is sports radio, I suppose.
Shannon
May 13th, 2009
9:48 pm
I will listen to some sports talk radio but I quit listening to the Two Live Stews because I couldn’t understand them …..
Mark Bradley
May 13th, 2009
9:54 pm
Full disclosure: I’m spoiled. I’ve had XM since 2005. I listen to nothing else.
DHD
May 13th, 2009
10:00 pm
sign Big Z and Andre Miller. Let Bibby go and keep everybody else. We’ll come in second in the East and have a shot at the finals.
D.Carter
May 13th, 2009
10:04 pm
I think the biggest change that needs to be made is a coaching change or offensive gameplanning ….If you notice the other teams that are still alive in the playoffs all set good to GREAT BALL SCREENS especially out of the secondary fast breaks which creates penetration and doesnt allow the defenses to totally get set…. Josh Smith should be like tyson chandler always setting screens and rolling TOWARDS THE BASKET…WHICH IS AWAY FROM THE 3PT LINE!!!!
WOODY EARLY PENETRATION CREATES EASY OPPOURTUNITIES!!!!!! and wide open 3 pt shots as oppose to forced threes from bibby , joe , and MR USELESS MO EVANS…
D.Carter
May 13th, 2009
10:07 pm
We need Jamal Crawford or Allen Iverson both of whom are penetrators…. Iverson gives us true star and scorer power which will let Joe play second fiddle which is where he belongs…..
D.Carter
May 13th, 2009
10:11 pm
Shannon your right i stop listening to Steak and the morning crew because they are just plain stupid… Pollack and Bell are sports idiots and can never get there names or facts str8 about anything they are talking about……….
Mark Bradley
May 13th, 2009
10:13 pm
I’d rather have Jamal Crawford than Iverson or Andre Miller. And Ilgauskas is kind of intriguing as a free agent, though I don’t know the Hawks could afford to sign him and keep Bibby. (Or Marvin Williams.)
O'brien
May 13th, 2009
10:32 pm
One reason why Drew Gooden or Antonio McDyess would be good pickups coming off the bench is because they are consistent midrange shooters. ZaZa (or Solo) is not, and even Al’s shot is inconsistent.
Mr. Bradley, if the Hawks draft your VCU PG, do you really think Woody will give him PT? Let’s not forget Acie’s senior year, he won the Bob Cousy award as the best PG in college. He was Mr. Clutch at A&M, hitting big shots against Texas, Kansas etc, MVP at the Summer Revue (sp?) and played really well in the preseason games, but Woody and injuries have kept him on the bench. I’m not sayng Acie is the answer, what I’m saying is we dont know, mostly because Woody refuses to play him. And the same thing might happen to your VCU PG, especially if we resign Flip and Bibby.
Joe
May 13th, 2009
10:33 pm
Grecian earner…that’s funny!
Shannon
May 13th, 2009
10:33 pm
I hope we don’t do anything this year that will keep us from going after Chris Bosh in 2010. I think he would be the final piece that would get us in championship contention for many years. Somtimes you have to see this has a marathon and not a sprint. What do you think, Mark?
david
May 13th, 2009
10:38 pm
Woody is not my coach of choice or even close but he has gotten better each year. Got to give him that. BUT with this crew and a new thought process (new coach) it would be interesting to try to get to an even higher level. More ferocious defense and an offense that flows. You reach a point that a change needs to be made for a team to have a chance to improve. A new teacher, new respect to listen to and trust. The awful road show is a product of coaching. It’s like Woody is so big on winning 70% of home games everything else will fall into place. ZERO winning effort on the road. THAT’S COACHING PEOPLE. Gotta get a big, doesn’t have to be a superstar big. Have to stabilize the point. I think Bibby has evolved into a shooting guard playing point. I think a great point would whip this team into shape quickly. It’s a fun project because we have the players for the most part and maybe Woody gets credit. But ownership has to ask themselves if they really want to get better will they be smart enough to do what’s necessary.
don pardo
May 13th, 2009
10:49 pm
1. Bibby is not the answer at point guard, I would re-sign him only if he is willing take a dramatically reduced contact ( he made almost 15 mill last year) for no more than 3 years.
Check the stats, he was 25th in the league, in Assists Per Game. He actually did not even lead the team. To be in the top 10 this year he would have needed to average just under 7 a game, he has only done that twice in his career and the last time was 00-01. He is not an elite point guard, the only thing elite is his salary. Yes he is far better than Anthony Johnson, Speedy Claxton or Tyrone Lue but is that really worth 15 mill. Would be great coming off the bench.
2. Marvin Williams- You have to resign him. Clearly drafting him was a mistake, but letting him go without significant compensation would only make the matter worse.
3. Zaza Pachulia- Was a bargain at 4 mill- should resign if he will agree to reasonable terms.
4. Flip Murray – Huge bargain at 1.5 mill, I would like to resign although doubtful he will have another season like this one. Would not be needed if Bibby came off the bench.
5. Solomon Jones- Another Billy knight mistake- not worth the minimum.
6. Consider trading -Joe- We seen his best, at 28 he has a lot of miles on him. Two poor playoffs in a row, only one year left on contract, it’s time to move him.
don pardo
May 13th, 2009
10:51 pm
Josh smith / Al Horford- These are the building blocks. If Woody can’t reach Josh we need to find someone else who can.
tjhook
May 13th, 2009
11:10 pm
some bloggers are worried about replacing Williams’ three point shooting range but the bigger problem is who is a threat down low. Gooden is a legitimate player to play in the post – not necessarily to beat double teams but good enough to score down low against single coverage and is versatile enough to score inside and on the perimeter, allowing Horford and Smith to go inside and out. Defensively, Gooden can be able to provide more length on both ends for defensive stops and rebounding. The Hawks won’t get a 7-footer so it’s best to have numbers of interchangeable tall post players. See the 2009 Cavaliers: Lebron and combo guards West and Williams put the ball in the basket, but the Cav frontline establishes the wall of defense that keeps teams from scoring loads of points. Not a lot of second-chance points versus Cleveland.
Dr. Warren
May 14th, 2009
12:00 am
A good way to shut everybody up would be to trade for Chris Paul. The Hornets need to cut salary. Send them Marvin, Acie, Zaza, the rights to Childress, maybe even Joe. Hell, send them anybody. We need that TIER-ONE player we haven’t had since Dominique.
Mitch
May 14th, 2009
1:05 am
Mark, I happen to agree with everything you said. The Hawks accomplished their goals for this year. They won 10 more games, got home court in the first round, and won a playoff series. I didn’t really expect them to do anything much with the Cavs.
I just hope that this Hawk team, with as far as they’ve come, don’t become the Hawks of the late 1980s, and mid to late 1990s, where we were a good 40s to 50 something win team for several years, but never got out of the second round. This team is still very young, and has a lot of upside. Next year, the Eastern Finals, and making the big boys of Boston, Orlando, and Cleveland, feel that we can really beat them, needs to be the goal.
Bibby needs to be re signed. I would also like to see the Hawks get one more scorer.
Overall, the Hawks had a very good year. It’s difficult to believe that just two years ago, this team was the laughingstock of the NBA. They have come very far in a short period of time.
Mitch
alsim
May 14th, 2009
1:09 am
IMHO, they improved exactly ONE game.
.
no id
May 14th, 2009
1:16 am
I agree that this season was ok even though we improved in wins and made it to the second. Given that fact that Woodson STILL has not developed a bench, played Joe a million mins again this yr, and still runs a VERY simple playbook. I think the improvements that were made this yr were due to the talent of the players, not the coaching.
Dave72
May 14th, 2009
4:15 am
Wow, are you saying that this team was actually “coached up”? How improbable, not too long ago.
They made the progress – the exact amount of progress – they should have. It will be interesting to see if they can improve upon it next season, or if this is their ceiling or possibly peak. I’m going with the latter, but I never thought this group would come this far, so they’ve definitely earned the chance to prove the many skeptics like myself wrong again.
NineOhTheRino
May 14th, 2009
7:24 am
All this team needs is a 1 and 5 guys. Jarred Jack and Andrew Bynum would look nice in a Hawks uni and it is doable guys.
Mark Bradley
May 14th, 2009
7:34 am
I think every team in the league will take a hard run at Chris Bosh.
And I agree you can’t let Marvin leave without compensation. That’s why you work a sign-and-trade. That way you get something back.
Mark Bradley
May 14th, 2009
7:35 am
And thanks, Mitch. But this team has a long way to go before we can say it has fallen into a rut.
Keep It Real from Cleveland
May 14th, 2009
9:04 am
Interesting comments! First we need to get rid of Coach Woodie and the bench coaches! They have not been able to develope players or encourage these players to work on certain parts of their game.
They need another point guard Bibby is a liability out there! The reason Josh and Al get into foul trouble is because the guards allow too much penetration thus leaving both players out of position to rebound.
I would resign Flip a good Bench player! Resign Marvin he is a little weak but can develope into a good player. With Bibby and Clayton look for a quality big man to come off the bench with ZAZa!
Keep It Real from Cleveland
May 14th, 2009
9:05 am
@nino How are you going to get Bynum? He just signed a new contract! Huh
We can get Jarred Jack although he seems to possess a bit of an attitude!
asdf2
May 14th, 2009
9:30 am
Mark,
What are the chances of getting Marc Gasol?
Kellie
May 14th, 2009
9:31 am
Let’s Go Hawks!!! It was a great season, they have nothing at all to be ashamed of. Let’s move forward and start setting goals for next year. They improve every year, all they need is for the fans and cities (not just Atlanta – but Metro Atlanta) to stay behind them. I’m looking forward to next year!
kcob95
May 14th, 2009
9:50 am
What do you think about a sign and trade for either baron davis or montae ellis from the clippers and warriors respectively? I would be partial to ellis because of his youth and ability to shoot and defend. Also, New Orleans might be willing to move Tyson Chandler. He can be a shot blocker and does not require a lot of shots.
ILL-logical
May 14th, 2009
10:26 am
Ah, moderation of tone: you must have gotten a call from Mike Gearson.LOL
Serously, given the history, financial condition and overall tenor of the times, a middle ground for change would be to have new coaches on staff given the authority to :
1. design and run an offense based on the players abilities and strenghts that is flexible and adapts to changing game conditions and not on personality conflicts. Paul Westphal is a name that comes to mind in this respect.
2.Hire a coach who is an experienced big man that can develop our bigs both physically and emotionally. Antonio Davis lives here in the metro area.
3.There is a former player named Julius Winfield Erving III who might know something about off court decorum certainly when compared to Duane Ferrell, prehaps he might be engaged as a consultant.
I know these suggesstions might not be recieved favorably by the current head coach however cosidering one of the clear alternatives to his tenure ,I believe he would do the right thing.
And finally, congratulations to the entire organization for a very good year!
Atl Resident
May 14th, 2009
10:28 am
Hawks did good this season. The problem in the playoffs is that they battled first round against Miami and got banged up terribly. So, when they faced Cleveland, three best players which just happen to be starters were playing hurt with injuries against a healthy team. I mean, when that happens Cleveland was suppose to win. Hawks could have played better and should have but with injuries that’s what happen when you not at your best. There’s no doubt this Hawks team got talent, but I think they couldn’t give their best with injuries weighing on them.
Mark Bradley
May 14th, 2009
10:32 am
Marc Gasol seems a hot name, at least on these blogs. And I’d think the Grizzlies would be open to improvement. Might he be part of a sign-and-trade for Marvin?
As for Ellis or Davis: I’d take Ellis, too. But I don’t know that Golden State will trade either.
Grady Baby
May 14th, 2009
11:01 am
Hawks did OK. Enough already, the Hawks were better than OK. The only reason they did not win 50 games is because of thier record on the road. If we go .500 on the road with our home record we easily surpass 50+ wins this year. What this teams needs is a mentality change. LEARN HOW TO WIN ON THE ROAD, THAT INCLUDES THE PLAYOFFS. With this roster changes may and I say may be necessary, but what is more important is to change the road mentality of this team. Woody has to groom Acie more to see what we have or don’t, and Acie don’t know if the problem is in the weight room or diet but we need you healthy for a season pls.
SN
May 14th, 2009
12:13 pm
The Hawks losing Childress didnt hurt them. Flip Murray and Mo Evan more than made up for him. Woodson needs to develop his players better. Acie Law should be way better than he is but is always riding the bench and when he does come in he isnt allowed to do anything because everything is ran through Joe Johnson and everyone just sits there waiting to see what him or Bibby is going to do. Woodson also needs to stop with this half court offense and play more fast paced, when the Hawks are running no one can beat them most of the time, but once you slow them down, the game is over.
Todd - Dacula
May 14th, 2009
12:25 pm
Being anywhere between OKAY to Good is something that most will say; depending on whether you are a Hawks fan or not. I am and I think there were OKAY and NEVER bel;ieved the series against teh CAVS would be won. I want to add that without Lebron James, teh CAVS are less of a team than the Hawks; they have a bunch of role players who simple hustle because of Lebron.
Enough of that an on to the Hawks; they simply cannot stand pat this off season. With a team of 2,3 and 4 position players; with Josh Smith taking shots he NEVER should take; with no scorer who can drop 50 points at any given night (not since WIlkens) and not having a real center, the Hawks actually did well. I appreciate Joe Johnson, but he is not the answer; never have been, but I love him on this team.
So what need to be done is to ntry and add three peices; a point guard that can score, drive and break down the defense, a small forward that can drop 40 points on any given night and a decent 7 footer that will pull down 10 rebounds, clog the middle and stay out of foul trouble.
Now you question might be, WHO? But I, liek the rest of you do nto have tthose answers; if I did I wouold not be blogging. Bobby, Evans, Hortford, Pachulia, Smith, WEst, WIlliams and Johnson can stay; use everyone else for trade to improve the team and get the three peics needed, in my opinion.
See you next season.
Todd - Dacula
May 14th, 2009
12:32 pm
Oh and I forgot about Flip Murray; needs the ball more, with Bibby, probably the only pure scorer on the team.
Antonio Mcdyess Remembers » Blog Archive » Quick scan of the net - antonio mcdyess
May 14th, 2009
12:58 pm
[...] http://blogs.ajc.com/mark-bradley-blog/2009/05/13/this-just-in-the-2008-2009-hawks-did-ok-for-themse…One reason why Drew Gooden or Antonio McDyess would be good pickups coming off the bench is because they are consistent midrange shooters. ZaZa (or Solo) is not, and even Al’s shot sudoku tips is inconsistent. Mr. Bradley, if the Hawks draft your … [...]
bigeasy830
May 14th, 2009
1:29 pm
Todd-Dacula, I went to game 3 and 4, J-Smoove low post game is very good, scary to the opponents. I think he is the key to next seasons success. if he comes in focused and poised to impose his will on this team and assert himself as a scorer. We will win 50 plus and make even more progress in the play-off. i am not saying we will go the the conference finals but we will be very competitive in the 2nd round. The low post moves J-Smoove made wee awesome, no one in the NBA can stop him down there one on one. A couple of years ago I went to the Hawks/Rockets game at Phillips. I saw Juan Howard school J-Smoove on a few low post plays. J-Smoove could not defend him, Howard would bang J-Smoove before he got the ball to create separation then as soon as he caught it he made a quick move and scored. The moves I saw J-Smoove make in games 3 and 4 reminded me of Juan Howard’s moves, But J-Smoove must maintain his intensity the entire game and a penetrating point guard would definitely help him. He got off to quick starts in game one and game had spurts in the other games but could not sustain it for the entire game. I know he had foul trouble in a few games but he still have to play his game or he is ineffective. If J-Smoove and Al take their games to the next level and Marvin continue to work on his game then we will be fine as long as we can keep this team together. I wonder what plans the organization have for Randolph Morris. Hopefully he can help us next year and get more minutes. If we can’t keep Marvin sign and trade him for T-Mac and send Acie law with him. Hopefully T-mac can stay healthy. Or, go get A.I. and let Bibby go. A.I. can still score at will. I think that Detroit experience humbled him enough to appreciate the NBA. Plus a healthy A.I. always averaged about 7 or 8 dimes a game, he is more than just a scorer. He had good steals numbers also.
Larry
May 14th, 2009
1:58 pm
Why not Ben Gordon over Bibby? There asking prices will be closer than people realize. Remember, when Ben turned down 5/50mm in 2006? Now they are offering the 35mm range, he is much more productive than Bibby will ever be and he is YOUNGER.
IDK Y
May 14th, 2009
2:00 pm
Would we even consider trading Marvin for RONNIE TURIAF and BRANDEN WRIGHT… are you serious? Those two are nothing more than Josh Smith and Al Horford in another teams jersey and do nothing to help our team’s lack of shooting. If any trade is to be made, we need to get rid of one of our offensively challenged PFs.
Hughes
May 14th, 2009
2:08 pm
I agree with MB. Everyone is going after Bosh. He will make make at least $16 million per. I don’t think his year at Tech will equate to a hometown discount for the Hawks. But, I’d love to have him. His length and style fit with us offensively and defensively. If they can’t get Bosh in 2010, Patrick O’Bryant could be a good pick up. Tyson Chandler would require $13 million per. He’s not worth it. He’s basically a big slow guy that takes lobs. Chris Kamen is kinda the same kind of player with a bad foot. I could live with Okur or Varejao, but not sure we could get those guys. This offseason we could focus on Glen Davis, Brandon Bass (PF), or Eddy Curry. I’ve always been high on Davis and I think if he keeps his weight under control would be a nice big body. Bass is a PF, but if you put him with Al he makes our frontcourt strong and allows us to be athletic. Josh moves to 3 with that of course. Curry’s heart is no longer an issue, he has a low post game, and we could get him for $12 million per. The main benefits to Davis and bass is that we could sign them for $4-5 million per. That’s nothing!!
As for the rest of the team. You have to keep Mario. He’s a great situational defender and a fan favorite. I love his energy. The same goes for Zaza. I think we should keep those players if we can sign them for $6 million each. Marvin is a keeper. You would think Marvin has been in the league 5 years the way his game has developed. Marvin does the things offensively Josh Smith should be doing (driving to the basket to draw fouls, shooting from a solid percentage at the FT line, and having a consitent outside shoot). Moreover, Marvin is a better overall defender than Josh. Josh is great for a block, but one of one he has a lot of work to do. You could bring back Jchill as he’s another roll player. He’s not a $ guy. Flip is a keeper. Garder and Hunter are good developmental players. Law needs to show something. He’s been hurt a lot, but is good depth. I like his game, but he needs to stay off the training table, and out of the kitchen/doghouse. I like the moxie Solo showed in his start. He has a decent offensive game. Some more work and time in the weight room would do him good. He’s another cheap player we should keep around if possible. Evans and Bibby become expendable if we get Chill back and draft Lawson from North Carolina. I love his offensive and defensive game. He’s a fierce defender and fantastic distributor. The Hawks win their division and advance to the conference finals with him NEXT year.
Hughes
May 14th, 2009
2:37 pm
Zaza and Bibby are who we should keep at $6 million per year if that wasn’t clear above.
gdg73
May 14th, 2009
3:42 pm
ZAZA NEEDS TO GO!! Re-sign Bibby, but either draft a PG or play Acie Law more. Trade Marvin Williams now while we can.
ILL-logical
May 14th, 2009
5:36 pm
I, believe and Mr. Bradley can correct me,that one the reasons Josh Childress left was his unhappiness regarding his role under Woodson.And don’t forget that Sund called him a mariginal player after he signed with the Greek teamm.May have been sour grapes but I bet it left a bitter taste in J Chills mouth. Point: I don’t believe Mr. Chilldress will be sporting a Hawk uniform anytime in the this century.Unless of course the system changes.