This just in! The 2008-2009 Hawks did OK for themselves!
We’ve kicked around the Hawks, sometimes pretty hard, these past few days, but amid all the discussions regarding who’s to blame — Woody? Joe? Red Auerbach? — a greater truth has been obscured if not missed entirely. So here goes:
The Hawks won more games than they should’ve and lost exactly when they should’ve.
They were 37-45 in 2007-2008. They improved 10 games without adding a starter. (And despite losing the Grecian earner Josh Childress.) They moved from the No. 8 seed in the East to the No. 4 seed. They won a first-round series over the No. 5 seed. They lost in Round 2 to the top seed. I’ve been a harsh critic of this franchise over the past quarter-century, but I’d say these Hawks gave good value for what they had.
And what exactly did they have? Well, according to the All-NBA team released Wednesday, not all that much. Joe Johnson finished 19th in the voting, which placed him among the honorable mentions, and no other Hawk received even a single vote. (Heck, Jermaine O’Neal received a single vote.)
In the postseason, they beat an opponent (Miami) that had a first-team All-Star and lost to one (Cleveland) that had a unanimous first-teamer. In the regular season they finished behind one Eastern club (Orlando) that had a first-teamer and another (Boston) that had a second-teamer. In a league where stars drive the bus, should we have expected any more from the Hawks?
Not really. Oh, it’d have been nice if they’d given the Cavs a run, but with three starters injured that was never going to happen. The bottom line: This is a talented team but not a great team. Nobody had a breakout season. Not one Hawk finished among the league’s top 10 in scoring, rebounding, assists, steals or blocked shots. Neither Josh Smith nor Al Horford received a vote for the all-defensive team.
Me, I’d say they did OK for themselves. But maybe that’s just me, and maybe I’m getting senile in my old age.
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85 comments Add your comment
O'brien
May 13th, 2009
10:32 pm
One reason why Drew Gooden or Antonio McDyess would be good pickups coming off the bench is because they are consistent midrange shooters. ZaZa (or Solo) is not, and even Al’s shot is inconsistent.
Mr. Bradley, if the Hawks draft your VCU PG, do you really think Woody will give him PT? Let’s not forget Acie’s senior year, he won the Bob Cousy award as the best PG in college. He was Mr. Clutch at A&M, hitting big shots against Texas, Kansas etc, MVP at the Summer Revue (sp?) and played really well in the preseason games, but Woody and injuries have kept him on the bench. I’m not sayng Acie is the answer, what I’m saying is we dont know, mostly because Woody refuses to play him. And the same thing might happen to your VCU PG, especially if we resign Flip and Bibby.
Joe
May 13th, 2009
10:33 pm
Grecian earner…that’s funny!
Shannon
May 13th, 2009
10:33 pm
I hope we don’t do anything this year that will keep us from going after Chris Bosh in 2010. I think he would be the final piece that would get us in championship contention for many years. Somtimes you have to see this has a marathon and not a sprint. What do you think, Mark?
david
May 13th, 2009
10:38 pm
Woody is not my coach of choice or even close but he has gotten better each year. Got to give him that. BUT with this crew and a new thought process (new coach) it would be interesting to try to get to an even higher level. More ferocious defense and an offense that flows. You reach a point that a change needs to be made for a team to have a chance to improve. A new teacher, new respect to listen to and trust. The awful road show is a product of coaching. It’s like Woody is so big on winning 70% of home games everything else will fall into place. ZERO winning effort on the road. THAT’S COACHING PEOPLE. Gotta get a big, doesn’t have to be a superstar big. Have to stabilize the point. I think Bibby has evolved into a shooting guard playing point. I think a great point would whip this team into shape quickly. It’s a fun project because we have the players for the most part and maybe Woody gets credit. But ownership has to ask themselves if they really want to get better will they be smart enough to do what’s necessary.
don pardo
May 13th, 2009
10:49 pm
1. Bibby is not the answer at point guard, I would re-sign him only if he is willing take a dramatically reduced contact ( he made almost 15 mill last year) for no more than 3 years.
Check the stats, he was 25th in the league, in Assists Per Game. He actually did not even lead the team. To be in the top 10 this year he would have needed to average just under 7 a game, he has only done that twice in his career and the last time was 00-01. He is not an elite point guard, the only thing elite is his salary. Yes he is far better than Anthony Johnson, Speedy Claxton or Tyrone Lue but is that really worth 15 mill. Would be great coming off the bench.
2. Marvin Williams- You have to resign him. Clearly drafting him was a mistake, but letting him go without significant compensation would only make the matter worse.
3. Zaza Pachulia- Was a bargain at 4 mill- should resign if he will agree to reasonable terms.
4. Flip Murray – Huge bargain at 1.5 mill, I would like to resign although doubtful he will have another season like this one. Would not be needed if Bibby came off the bench.
5. Solomon Jones- Another Billy knight mistake- not worth the minimum.
6. Consider trading -Joe- We seen his best, at 28 he has a lot of miles on him. Two poor playoffs in a row, only one year left on contract, it’s time to move him.
don pardo
May 13th, 2009
10:51 pm
Josh smith / Al Horford- These are the building blocks. If Woody can’t reach Josh we need to find someone else who can.
tjhook
May 13th, 2009
11:10 pm
some bloggers are worried about replacing Williams’ three point shooting range but the bigger problem is who is a threat down low. Gooden is a legitimate player to play in the post – not necessarily to beat double teams but good enough to score down low against single coverage and is versatile enough to score inside and on the perimeter, allowing Horford and Smith to go inside and out. Defensively, Gooden can be able to provide more length on both ends for defensive stops and rebounding. The Hawks won’t get a 7-footer so it’s best to have numbers of interchangeable tall post players. See the 2009 Cavaliers: Lebron and combo guards West and Williams put the ball in the basket, but the Cav frontline establishes the wall of defense that keeps teams from scoring loads of points. Not a lot of second-chance points versus Cleveland.
Dr. Warren
May 14th, 2009
12:00 am
A good way to shut everybody up would be to trade for Chris Paul. The Hornets need to cut salary. Send them Marvin, Acie, Zaza, the rights to Childress, maybe even Joe. Hell, send them anybody. We need that TIER-ONE player we haven’t had since Dominique.
Mitch
May 14th, 2009
1:05 am
Mark, I happen to agree with everything you said. The Hawks accomplished their goals for this year. They won 10 more games, got home court in the first round, and won a playoff series. I didn’t really expect them to do anything much with the Cavs.
I just hope that this Hawk team, with as far as they’ve come, don’t become the Hawks of the late 1980s, and mid to late 1990s, where we were a good 40s to 50 something win team for several years, but never got out of the second round. This team is still very young, and has a lot of upside. Next year, the Eastern Finals, and making the big boys of Boston, Orlando, and Cleveland, feel that we can really beat them, needs to be the goal.
Bibby needs to be re signed. I would also like to see the Hawks get one more scorer.
Overall, the Hawks had a very good year. It’s difficult to believe that just two years ago, this team was the laughingstock of the NBA. They have come very far in a short period of time.
Mitch
alsim
May 14th, 2009
1:09 am
IMHO, they improved exactly ONE game.
.
no id
May 14th, 2009
1:16 am
I agree that this season was ok even though we improved in wins and made it to the second. Given that fact that Woodson STILL has not developed a bench, played Joe a million mins again this yr, and still runs a VERY simple playbook. I think the improvements that were made this yr were due to the talent of the players, not the coaching.
Dave72
May 14th, 2009
4:15 am
Wow, are you saying that this team was actually “coached up”? How improbable, not too long ago.
They made the progress – the exact amount of progress – they should have. It will be interesting to see if they can improve upon it next season, or if this is their ceiling or possibly peak. I’m going with the latter, but I never thought this group would come this far, so they’ve definitely earned the chance to prove the many skeptics like myself wrong again.
NineOhTheRino
May 14th, 2009
7:24 am
All this team needs is a 1 and 5 guys. Jarred Jack and Andrew Bynum would look nice in a Hawks uni and it is doable guys.
Mark Bradley
May 14th, 2009
7:34 am
I think every team in the league will take a hard run at Chris Bosh.
And I agree you can’t let Marvin leave without compensation. That’s why you work a sign-and-trade. That way you get something back.
Mark Bradley
May 14th, 2009
7:35 am
And thanks, Mitch. But this team has a long way to go before we can say it has fallen into a rut.
Keep It Real from Cleveland
May 14th, 2009
9:04 am
Interesting comments! First we need to get rid of Coach Woodie and the bench coaches! They have not been able to develope players or encourage these players to work on certain parts of their game.
They need another point guard Bibby is a liability out there! The reason Josh and Al get into foul trouble is because the guards allow too much penetration thus leaving both players out of position to rebound.
I would resign Flip a good Bench player! Resign Marvin he is a little weak but can develope into a good player. With Bibby and Clayton look for a quality big man to come off the bench with ZAZa!
Keep It Real from Cleveland
May 14th, 2009
9:05 am
@nino How are you going to get Bynum? He just signed a new contract! Huh
We can get Jarred Jack although he seems to possess a bit of an attitude!
asdf2
May 14th, 2009
9:30 am
Mark,
What are the chances of getting Marc Gasol?
Kellie
May 14th, 2009
9:31 am
Let’s Go Hawks!!! It was a great season, they have nothing at all to be ashamed of. Let’s move forward and start setting goals for next year. They improve every year, all they need is for the fans and cities (not just Atlanta – but Metro Atlanta) to stay behind them. I’m looking forward to next year!
kcob95
May 14th, 2009
9:50 am
What do you think about a sign and trade for either baron davis or montae ellis from the clippers and warriors respectively? I would be partial to ellis because of his youth and ability to shoot and defend. Also, New Orleans might be willing to move Tyson Chandler. He can be a shot blocker and does not require a lot of shots.
ILL-logical
May 14th, 2009
10:26 am
Ah, moderation of tone: you must have gotten a call from Mike Gearson.LOL
Serously, given the history, financial condition and overall tenor of the times, a middle ground for change would be to have new coaches on staff given the authority to :
1. design and run an offense based on the players abilities and strenghts that is flexible and adapts to changing game conditions and not on personality conflicts. Paul Westphal is a name that comes to mind in this respect.
2.Hire a coach who is an experienced big man that can develop our bigs both physically and emotionally. Antonio Davis lives here in the metro area.
3.There is a former player named Julius Winfield Erving III who might know something about off court decorum certainly when compared to Duane Ferrell, prehaps he might be engaged as a consultant.
I know these suggesstions might not be recieved favorably by the current head coach however cosidering one of the clear alternatives to his tenure ,I believe he would do the right thing.
And finally, congratulations to the entire organization for a very good year!
Atl Resident
May 14th, 2009
10:28 am
Hawks did good this season. The problem in the playoffs is that they battled first round against Miami and got banged up terribly. So, when they faced Cleveland, three best players which just happen to be starters were playing hurt with injuries against a healthy team. I mean, when that happens Cleveland was suppose to win. Hawks could have played better and should have but with injuries that’s what happen when you not at your best. There’s no doubt this Hawks team got talent, but I think they couldn’t give their best with injuries weighing on them.
Mark Bradley
May 14th, 2009
10:32 am
Marc Gasol seems a hot name, at least on these blogs. And I’d think the Grizzlies would be open to improvement. Might he be part of a sign-and-trade for Marvin?
As for Ellis or Davis: I’d take Ellis, too. But I don’t know that Golden State will trade either.
Grady Baby
May 14th, 2009
11:01 am
Hawks did OK. Enough already, the Hawks were better than OK. The only reason they did not win 50 games is because of thier record on the road. If we go .500 on the road with our home record we easily surpass 50+ wins this year. What this teams needs is a mentality change. LEARN HOW TO WIN ON THE ROAD, THAT INCLUDES THE PLAYOFFS. With this roster changes may and I say may be necessary, but what is more important is to change the road mentality of this team. Woody has to groom Acie more to see what we have or don’t, and Acie don’t know if the problem is in the weight room or diet but we need you healthy for a season pls.
SN
May 14th, 2009
12:13 pm
The Hawks losing Childress didnt hurt them. Flip Murray and Mo Evan more than made up for him. Woodson needs to develop his players better. Acie Law should be way better than he is but is always riding the bench and when he does come in he isnt allowed to do anything because everything is ran through Joe Johnson and everyone just sits there waiting to see what him or Bibby is going to do. Woodson also needs to stop with this half court offense and play more fast paced, when the Hawks are running no one can beat them most of the time, but once you slow them down, the game is over.
Todd - Dacula
May 14th, 2009
12:25 pm
Being anywhere between OKAY to Good is something that most will say; depending on whether you are a Hawks fan or not. I am and I think there were OKAY and NEVER bel;ieved the series against teh CAVS would be won. I want to add that without Lebron James, teh CAVS are less of a team than the Hawks; they have a bunch of role players who simple hustle because of Lebron.
Enough of that an on to the Hawks; they simply cannot stand pat this off season. With a team of 2,3 and 4 position players; with Josh Smith taking shots he NEVER should take; with no scorer who can drop 50 points at any given night (not since WIlkens) and not having a real center, the Hawks actually did well. I appreciate Joe Johnson, but he is not the answer; never have been, but I love him on this team.
So what need to be done is to ntry and add three peices; a point guard that can score, drive and break down the defense, a small forward that can drop 40 points on any given night and a decent 7 footer that will pull down 10 rebounds, clog the middle and stay out of foul trouble.
Now you question might be, WHO? But I, liek the rest of you do nto have tthose answers; if I did I wouold not be blogging. Bobby, Evans, Hortford, Pachulia, Smith, WEst, WIlliams and Johnson can stay; use everyone else for trade to improve the team and get the three peics needed, in my opinion.
See you next season.
Todd - Dacula
May 14th, 2009
12:32 pm
Oh and I forgot about Flip Murray; needs the ball more, with Bibby, probably the only pure scorer on the team.
Antonio Mcdyess Remembers » Blog Archive » Quick scan of the net - antonio mcdyess
May 14th, 2009
12:58 pm
[...] http://blogs.ajc.com/mark-bradley-blog/2009/05/13/this-just-in-the-2008-2009-hawks-did-ok-for-themse…One reason why Drew Gooden or Antonio McDyess would be good pickups coming off the bench is because they are consistent midrange shooters. ZaZa (or Solo) is not, and even Al’s shot sudoku tips is inconsistent. Mr. Bradley, if the Hawks draft your … [...]
bigeasy830
May 14th, 2009
1:29 pm
Todd-Dacula, I went to game 3 and 4, J-Smoove low post game is very good, scary to the opponents. I think he is the key to next seasons success. if he comes in focused and poised to impose his will on this team and assert himself as a scorer. We will win 50 plus and make even more progress in the play-off. i am not saying we will go the the conference finals but we will be very competitive in the 2nd round. The low post moves J-Smoove made wee awesome, no one in the NBA can stop him down there one on one. A couple of years ago I went to the Hawks/Rockets game at Phillips. I saw Juan Howard school J-Smoove on a few low post plays. J-Smoove could not defend him, Howard would bang J-Smoove before he got the ball to create separation then as soon as he caught it he made a quick move and scored. The moves I saw J-Smoove make in games 3 and 4 reminded me of Juan Howard’s moves, But J-Smoove must maintain his intensity the entire game and a penetrating point guard would definitely help him. He got off to quick starts in game one and game had spurts in the other games but could not sustain it for the entire game. I know he had foul trouble in a few games but he still have to play his game or he is ineffective. If J-Smoove and Al take their games to the next level and Marvin continue to work on his game then we will be fine as long as we can keep this team together. I wonder what plans the organization have for Randolph Morris. Hopefully he can help us next year and get more minutes. If we can’t keep Marvin sign and trade him for T-Mac and send Acie law with him. Hopefully T-mac can stay healthy. Or, go get A.I. and let Bibby go. A.I. can still score at will. I think that Detroit experience humbled him enough to appreciate the NBA. Plus a healthy A.I. always averaged about 7 or 8 dimes a game, he is more than just a scorer. He had good steals numbers also.
Larry
May 14th, 2009
1:58 pm
Why not Ben Gordon over Bibby? There asking prices will be closer than people realize. Remember, when Ben turned down 5/50mm in 2006? Now they are offering the 35mm range, he is much more productive than Bibby will ever be and he is YOUNGER.
IDK Y
May 14th, 2009
2:00 pm
Would we even consider trading Marvin for RONNIE TURIAF and BRANDEN WRIGHT… are you serious? Those two are nothing more than Josh Smith and Al Horford in another teams jersey and do nothing to help our team’s lack of shooting. If any trade is to be made, we need to get rid of one of our offensively challenged PFs.
Hughes
May 14th, 2009
2:08 pm
I agree with MB. Everyone is going after Bosh. He will make make at least $16 million per. I don’t think his year at Tech will equate to a hometown discount for the Hawks. But, I’d love to have him. His length and style fit with us offensively and defensively. If they can’t get Bosh in 2010, Patrick O’Bryant could be a good pick up. Tyson Chandler would require $13 million per. He’s not worth it. He’s basically a big slow guy that takes lobs. Chris Kamen is kinda the same kind of player with a bad foot. I could live with Okur or Varejao, but not sure we could get those guys. This offseason we could focus on Glen Davis, Brandon Bass (PF), or Eddy Curry. I’ve always been high on Davis and I think if he keeps his weight under control would be a nice big body. Bass is a PF, but if you put him with Al he makes our frontcourt strong and allows us to be athletic. Josh moves to 3 with that of course. Curry’s heart is no longer an issue, he has a low post game, and we could get him for $12 million per. The main benefits to Davis and bass is that we could sign them for $4-5 million per. That’s nothing!!
As for the rest of the team. You have to keep Mario. He’s a great situational defender and a fan favorite. I love his energy. The same goes for Zaza. I think we should keep those players if we can sign them for $6 million each. Marvin is a keeper. You would think Marvin has been in the league 5 years the way his game has developed. Marvin does the things offensively Josh Smith should be doing (driving to the basket to draw fouls, shooting from a solid percentage at the FT line, and having a consitent outside shoot). Moreover, Marvin is a better overall defender than Josh. Josh is great for a block, but one of one he has a lot of work to do. You could bring back Jchill as he’s another roll player. He’s not a $ guy. Flip is a keeper. Garder and Hunter are good developmental players. Law needs to show something. He’s been hurt a lot, but is good depth. I like his game, but he needs to stay off the training table, and out of the kitchen/doghouse. I like the moxie Solo showed in his start. He has a decent offensive game. Some more work and time in the weight room would do him good. He’s another cheap player we should keep around if possible. Evans and Bibby become expendable if we get Chill back and draft Lawson from North Carolina. I love his offensive and defensive game. He’s a fierce defender and fantastic distributor. The Hawks win their division and advance to the conference finals with him NEXT year.
Hughes
May 14th, 2009
2:37 pm
Zaza and Bibby are who we should keep at $6 million per year if that wasn’t clear above.
gdg73
May 14th, 2009
3:42 pm
ZAZA NEEDS TO GO!! Re-sign Bibby, but either draft a PG or play Acie Law more. Trade Marvin Williams now while we can.
ILL-logical
May 14th, 2009
5:36 pm
I, believe and Mr. Bradley can correct me,that one the reasons Josh Childress left was his unhappiness regarding his role under Woodson.And don’t forget that Sund called him a mariginal player after he signed with the Greek teamm.May have been sour grapes but I bet it left a bitter taste in J Chills mouth. Point: I don’t believe Mr. Chilldress will be sporting a Hawk uniform anytime in the this century.Unless of course the system changes.