Johnson needs to step back for the Hawks to step forward
Much has to happen. The Hawks need to re-sign Mike Bibby, to work a sign-and-trade with Marvin Williams and to draft a guard, preferably Eric Maynor of VCU, in Round 1. But for this team to climb from pretty good to really good, something more must be done.
The Hawks must wean themselves from their reliance on Joe Johnson.
Almost every bit of the Hawks’ offense since 2005 has run through Johnson, and it’s past time for an adjustment. It’s not that he isn’t a fine player; it’s that this team has two younger players who require room to grow.
Come 2011, Josh Smith and Al Horford should be the Hawks’ best players. (And this assumes Johnson re-ups next summer.) Together, Smith and Horford took 1,443 shots this regular season. By himself, Johnson took 1,420. Save the occasional lob, the team doesn’t run many plays for Smith. It runs almost none for Horford.
Johnson isn’t a ball hog – he led the team in assists, ahead of Bibby – but he’s the focal point. You can be a focal point if you’re LeBron or Kobe or D-Wade, but Johnson isn’t quite. The Hawks would be better served if he played fewer minutes – he led the NBA in those – and took fewer shots.
Would Johnson be amenable? “I would,” he said Tuesday. “But I don’t know if that’s going to be the case. I have a passion and love for the game. Sometimes the coach tries to take me out, and I tell him to leave me in. It’s not that I’m selfish – it’s just my passion for the game.”
Is the goal to stoke Johnson’s fire or to win more games? He was demonstrably fatigued in the postseason and admitted as much. Save for the final three quarters of Game 7 against Miami, he was never the Johnson whom co-owner Michael Gearon Jr. calls “the greatest Hawk since Dominique.”
Sorry, there are no polls available at the moment.Johnson has filled an essential role. More than anyone else, he lifted the Hawks up from squalor. For this team to go further, he needs to work as well with Smith and Horford as he does with Bibby. He needs to become a leader, not just a scorer.
Horford won two NCAA titles with a team famous for sharing the ball. He’s not one to make requests. But here was his reaction when asked if he’d like more shots: “Yeah, every player would. Count me in for that.”
Do the Hawks run much for him? “They don’t,” said Horford, who took fewer shots than Flip Murray. “But I understand. I know what it takes: I have to work on my game and make them give me the ball a little more.”
Would Mike Woodson be willing to work Johnson less? “Without a doubt,” the coach said. “Did I wear him down? Sure. But I needed to ride him to get us where we needed to go.”
For this team to reach the next level, Smith and Horford must pull more of the load. They’re 23. (Johnson is 27.) They’re the future.
Williams is not. So long as he’s here, he’ll always be the guy who isn’t Chris Paul, and there should be teams willing to work a sign-and-trade. Bibby should stay because the Hawks went too long without a point guard. And another guard should be the focus of this draft because there won’t be a big man around when the Hawks pick.
But the big transition has to be internal. Johnson cannot be the lone star any longer. For the good of all, he must become one of the gang.
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Guides
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2010 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
259 comments Add your comment
matt r
May 12th, 2009
1:31 pm
Nice work MB
Dan
May 12th, 2009
1:41 pm
Marvin Williams is the only player on this team with any semblance of an inside-outside game. This team needs a coach to cultivate that out of him. Trading him would be a HUGE mistake.
truth-serum
May 12th, 2009
1:48 pm
Trade that sorry scrubb know as the” turnover waiting to happen” ZaZa is a scrubb and a loser. The reason the Hawks did not go further is we dont have a center. It would be nice to trade Za-scrubb for sump-ting….any thing grilled chicken for KFC sumpting,. He is like a green lite under the board. He stops no one!~!
Dennis
May 12th, 2009
1:49 pm
Fire Woodson, and bring in a coach that will let these guys run. They are too athletic to be bogged down in a half court style offense for the majority of the game. )One reason the Hawks do so well against Western Conference teams is that they able to run with them.
Joseph
May 12th, 2009
1:49 pm
I agree that the Hawks should not dismantle the team but build key components. Fans were frustrated with the series but the last two games were in reach with better offense. Williams may come through but I think Smith and Horford are the key stones, who need more shots (and less erratic play Mr. Smith) to drive the Hawks forward. A yonger PG who could defend as well as shoot would be nice too to win 55 games next year.
HHBO
May 12th, 2009
1:49 pm
What would we call ‘em?
“Smoove ‘n the gang”?!?
nola hawk fan
May 12th, 2009
1:56 pm
nice work mark. enjoyed your coverage of the playoffs.
Question – have you looked at what bigs are out there for possible sign and trade or FA? To me, that is the biggest hole right now. Whether it was Z or Sideshow Bob grabbing endless offensive rebounds this series, it was apparent, the hawks need a real center and let Al play the 4.
And if Marvin can be the bait to get a Big, I agree, he would be the one to trade.
freshd
May 12th, 2009
1:57 pm
It wouldn”t hurt for WOODROW to play AC LAW and develop him into the rotation, and see what he has. RICK SUND has said he likes AC and WOODY needs to throw him into the fire and quit trying to save his job every season by playing JOE 40 minutes a game. He should take a look at ORLANDO and how they threw COURTNEY LEE into the fire, and he”s a rookie.
Desmond
May 12th, 2009
2:00 pm
What do U mean by “Johnson needs to step back for the Hawks to step forward?” Joe Johnson may not played as well this postseason but Joe Johnson put the Atlanta Hawks back on the map and without Joe Johnson, there would not be no Atlanta Hawks, Atlanta Hawks will not be successful, and Josh Smith, Al Hortford, and everybody else would not play as good without Joe.
Josh Smildress
May 12th, 2009
2:05 pm
Hey Mark, covering the Hawks for the past two weeks does not entitle you to an opinion about how the Hawks play. All you columnists who watch only 11 games of the season have no idea how the team plays. Marvin is good and played well all season, can we work a sign and trade with you?
Timothy
May 12th, 2009
2:08 pm
While everybody being so damn critical on Joe, watch out for Joe Johnson next season. Once again Joe Johnson is gonna prove everybody wrong and everybody gonna jump back on his bandwagon. BE ON THE LOOKOUT FOR JOE JOHNSON NEXT YEAR EVERYBODY.
Harry Hawk
May 12th, 2009
2:11 pm
I’m actually leaning toward Schultz’s column today. Joe might be the guy to move. His knees may very well be close to shot (a 40 minute-per-game average over the last six seasons can do that). Do we wait another year, make the playoffs, and then sign him to a near-max contract? Would it make any sense to do that for a complementary star player who will be turning 30 in 2011? Will the Hawks be acquiring a true superstar for Joe to play with?
Here are my answers to those three questions: I hope not; not much; not likely.
Oh, and don’t forget that Bibby turns 32 next year. Wanna pay him big money? For these two reasons, I think we have an interesting offseason ahead of us.
(Don’t get me wrong. I like Joe. He’s really helped this organization out. We’re back to the Smitty/Mutombo/Mookie days. Unfortunately, teams like that usually get blown up because they aren’t good enough to be elite.)
2PacFan4Life
May 12th, 2009
2:12 pm
WITHOUT JOE JOHNSON, ATLANTA HAWKS IS NOTHING POINT BLANK. REAL TALK.
BDubs
May 12th, 2009
2:17 pm
Agreed more with Schultzie. Trade Joe J. and keep Marvin.
RealSquawk
May 12th, 2009
2:22 pm
That’s a great argument letting a player go because he was picked before somebody. Like he had control over that.
Without you noticing you picked more bones at Woodson then you did Joe. Woodson said he rode Joe so he could keep his job, Woodson said he let Joe tell him what to do, and when you spoke about Marvin you forgot to mention that Woodson doesn’t like small guards and gave chris paul a no vote.
Really I feel sorry for Billy Knight he got a lot of venom spewed his way. When I honestly think most of his perceived poor decisions came from trying to appease Mike Woodson. Who will all know won’t play someone he doesn’t like.
Big Ups to Salim Stoudamire for getting another chance with the Bucks and Royal Ivey for finding his place in the league.
Actually Mark you probably went after Woodson in this column on purpose (no sarcasm there)
Dan
May 12th, 2009
2:24 pm
Mark,
I am one of your biggest critics. I have to say, however, that I agree with everything you wrote. The Eric Mayner suggestion, in particular. Hope he is still around.
A sign-and-trade with Williams is needed. He is a good player, but I feel the team is just the same with him as they are without. If someone has to go, it makes sense that it would be him. We’ll see…
Don’t forget…resign Flip Murray, too…
freshd
May 12th, 2009
2:28 pm
Any chance the hawks could trade for MARK GASOL who averaged 11.9 points and 7.4 rebounds this year for MEMPHIS. He is 7 feet tall and weighs 280 lbs and only 24 years old. The HAWKS could then move AL to power forward. They need some bangers and some beef in the middle.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
2:28 pm
Thanks, Matt. Thanks, Nola. Thanks, Dan.
Let me note that the Hawks won a playoff series with virtually nothing from Marvin Williams. He has been here four seasons and has become that incongruity — an inessential double-figures scorer.
Keepin it 100
May 12th, 2009
2:29 pm
Mark Bradley gone with all that mess bra!!!! Joe Johnson is the Atlanta Hawks and he aint going nowhere you know that i know that he know that the whole A-town knows that. This team has build themselves up from a 13 game winning season to a 47 winning season, 4th place in the eastern conference, and went to the 2nd round of the playoffs!!!! breaking this team will be like breaking up the lakers JOE JOHNSON WILL BE HEAR NEXT YEAR YALL!!! MARK BRADLEY JUST TRIPPIN
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
2:30 pm
Acie Law has no future here. None.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
2:32 pm
I didn’t say Joe should be traded. I don’t believe Joe should be traded. (You’ve finally won a playoff series, and now you’re going to dump your leading scorer?) What I said — at least what I thought I said — was to have Joe shoulder less of the offensive load and become a part of the offense, not the whole shooting match.
Astro Joe
May 12th, 2009
2:36 pm
Just because some in the media and some fans can’t get over Marvin’s draft position, that shouldn’t be the reason you get rid of a 23 year-old with a high basketball IQ, a great work ethic and contributes within the team concept on both ends of the floor. Carmelo Anthony was drafted before Dwayne Wade. And Carmelo did so little for his team that they had to experiment with Iversen before acquiring Billups to make them into a true winner. Oh, and not to mention that whole sucker punch thing that Melo did that led to a lengthy suspension. I guess by your logic, Denver should have dumped Melo for a six pack of Coors because he wasn’t Mr. T. Mobile.
Oh yeah and if you’re going to draft a rookie PG and start scheming for the future then you better have a Head Coach with more than 1 year left on his contract. Moving some eggs from the JJ basket to that of any of these “they have potential” players screams of a semi-rebuilding effort and why would any coach with a single year left on his deal want to do that? Woody isn’t some crazed UGA professor looking to commit (professional) suicide.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
2:37 pm
I’m sorry. But Marvin just isn’t what the Hawks thought he’d be. And I don’t think he’ll be worth what he’s apt to ask as a restricted free agent.
mj23
May 12th, 2009
2:38 pm
Joe, will be back, but i don’t think Bibby will. If he agrees to a 1 yr. deal, then bring him back, but Bibby’s best days are behind him and he is a liability on defense. Woody has stunted Acie’s development because he doesn’t trust him Woody prefers to play vets, and Acie plays like he’s scared. Bring in a Jarret Jack or Javaris Crittenton to run this team.
smartguy
May 12th, 2009
2:39 pm
To those saying: “watch out for Joe next year,” I would say, I wanted to watch Joe this year. If he’d played worth a darn, we could still be watching him play.
TRADE NO SHOW JOE.
FIRE STUPID WOODSON.
Magic
May 12th, 2009
2:39 pm
Mark you wimped out with Bill Martin
J.J.M.
May 12th, 2009
2:41 pm
trave Marvin. Release speedy. keep joe and zaza…Im not sold on Horford but maybe because hes still young(rookie here was real good thoug) as much as i like bibby to stay I would let him go only if ACIE can step up or we trade for a much better point guard(why point guards we sign or draft never work out for us?) overall I would love to keep this team chemistry together
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
2:42 pm
OK, let’s say the Hawks trade Joe. For whom?
jg
May 12th, 2009
2:43 pm
i would just like to thanks these hawks for making my basketball season very interesting. i watched every tv game that was on from my home in chattanooga, tn with my three boys ages 7, 5 and well 9-months. we were also able to watch one game in philips arena–a W against a very good Denver team in January. we really had a blast all year!
personally i enjoyed this team a lot! i feel like they’re a good group of guys who are still developing their basketball skill and IQ. i’m not going to make much of this series with cleveland because i knew we weren’t quite good enough to win a series against them especially without home court..my only problem is that we didn’t play our best ball. i truly think we peaked a little early and the injuries really hit us at a horrible time. yea we got through injuries here and there during the season–but two or three during the same time is too much to overcome. i really thought us playing our best basketball could extend the cavs series to atleast 6 or even 7 games. i hate that we didn’t give our best play to the national fans that now might see this hawk team as over-rated. we won 47 games because of really good team play and hustle and i’m sad no one got to see much of this in the playoffs.
for the future–i hope we keep most of these guys together. obviously i would love to add a quality center such as a chris bosh. if it means we lose a marvin or even joe i think we have to do it. marvin was really playing well before the injury and i think that injury really destroyed our chemistry late in the year. as far as joe goes–yea i really love jj too–but it’s so painful to watch how much effort he has to put forth to score. some guys make it look real easy–but poor joe has to scratch and claw for everything. and that’s really not his fault per say–but i feel like his outside shot is declining and his ft percentage is going down as well–probably because of fatigue!
finally, whoever we bring in or keep–know this–me and my three sons will be rooting hard for the hawks up here in chattanooga. you guys should have seen them when we knocked out miami!!!!!!
jg
chattanooga
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
2:43 pm
And don’t say LeBron. Or Kobe. Or D-Wade.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
2:45 pm
Bibby’s not going to take a one-year deal.
J.J.M.
May 12th, 2009
2:45 pm
people keep saying trade joe like its fault but yall wasnt saying trade him when he was on yop of his game(bandwagon fans) coach worked joe to hard he was tired. If we had a better bench and better role players joe wouldnt be so tired and have played better but dont forget he was double teamed meaning it was his job to hit the open players which he did but the players couldnt hit the open shot most times…Horford not comfortable in his mid range shot. I seen him pass up the wide open shot to much.
STRETCH
May 12th, 2009
2:46 pm
freshd,
Good point! You got a 1st round pick point guard sitting on the bench…found out what the guy has next season. Bibby needs to take a pay cut for sure. And Joe needs less minutes next season as well, so that when he comes back in the game, he has that killer instinct he showed last season.
Gotta get a big man like Sir Charles said last night. Until they get big, the are always gonna lose big.
Harry Hawk
May 12th, 2009
2:47 pm
LeBron, Kobe, and D-Wade.
The Cavs, Lakers and Heat can work out a timeshare deal for Joe.
J.J.M.
May 12th, 2009
2:47 pm
if i had to trade joe for a player it would be LaMarcus Aldridge
Barry
May 12th, 2009
2:47 pm
Mark, I completely agree. How many Hawks possessions wound up with Joe dribbling and dribbling, then either a turnover or someone heaving up a desparation shot. And that is no knock on Joe. I think Joe is a really good player, and a good offensive player. But he isn’t a dominant player that commands the attention of a LeBron or DWade. He can score, but within the context of the offense. He can’t consistently force the action. There is no way the Hawks will go to the next level with this basic roster if they don’t share the ball any better. I like Marvin Williams, but he doesn’t really make much of a difference. What do you think they could get for him if they were able to trade him? Mike Bibby absolutely needs to stay, and they either need to get another, younger point guard, or allow Acie Law to play and develop. What’s up with him? It seemed to me he played alright when given the chance. He’s different than Bibby, but more up tempo.
allan in texas
May 12th, 2009
2:50 pm
Mark, what or who can we get for Marvin Williams? Any ideas? Thanks and have a nice day.
Harry Hawk
May 12th, 2009
2:50 pm
I’m sure I could figure something out on the ol’ ESPN Trade Machine.
mountain_jim
May 12th, 2009
2:55 pm
Replace Woodson, bring in the 7 footer from Euro, trade Chills rights and change for another defensive Center and Joe and Marvin probably get a whole lot better. Or if it takes either of them to get a real Center then do that trade also.
Woodson burned out Joe and did not develop Acie. He needs to be replaced with a coach willing to build for the long term, not just burn everybody out pre-playoffs just to keep his job each year.
Ellis St. John
May 12th, 2009
2:59 pm
If you don’t at least try to trade Joe now, he walks next summer (unrestricted free agent) to play second fiddle (his desired role) with D-Wade or Lebron or Bosh. Move him now if you can.
Larry
May 12th, 2009
2:59 pm
Mark,
The Hawks can become elite with addition without major overhaul.
1. Resign Flip & Bibby to reasonable short term deals, 2 years.
2. Trade Marvin, we need a Tyson Chandler, or Andris Biedrins type player. Who need few touches, rebounds and block shots, and can finish (Unlike ZaZa, Solo)
3. Draft a PG, I’m not sold on Maynor yet, but he is an excellent shooter for a PG and that always transitions well.
4. Make NICE with Josh Childress.
5. FIRE WOODY, because no matter how well the Hawks play from here on out, we will always be out coached. He doesnt deserve to be fired for this season’s performance, but this team is alteast 1 year behind schedule, if not two.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
3:00 pm
OK, let’s say the Hawks do find a big man. Does Horford move to power forward and Josh to small forward? Where would Marvin play then? And wouldn’t you like your small forward to have some capacity to make a jump shot? Wouldn’t the redone front line be too much bulk and not enough quicks?
BoricuaHawkFan
May 12th, 2009
3:01 pm
Nice article and perspective. That just sounds like a nice dream, which I’d take any day if it came true. It seems like most high-scoring stars do tend to pick up the bulk of minutes and shooting. Mark: Any comparison (mins. & shots) numbers with the likes of say DWade, Kobe, Dirk? My guess is that they also tend to carry their teams and will likely have comparable numbers.
Great season though a bit dissapointed at the lack of fight during the playoffs.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
3:02 pm
Good idea. Trade the leading scorer off a playoff team because he might — might — leave in a year. That’s not the way it happens in the NBA. This isn’t baseball.
mike
May 12th, 2009
3:04 pm
Mark,
Good article. I agree with your theory about Joe but I dont agree with the idea about Marvin. I think he has made great strides this past year with his shooting and rebounding. A healthy Marvin produces numbers and his size and length is great (sorry for using the favorite word of Billy Knight, length). Who is the weakest link then? Josh Smith! (And Bibby’s defense.. and Woody’s offense). Josh Smith does not make enough good plays to make up for his bad plays and turnovers. He has a big enough name to get some trade value, perhaps a big man (i refuse to use the word “true center” because there are virtually non-existant anymore). Then we can move Al to his true position at 4. What’s your take on that MB?
Dan
May 12th, 2009
3:07 pm
I really do not think the Hawks need a superstar big man. I think they just need one that can come in and do the dirty work, bang people around, get boards, and score a few hoops a game. Kawamie (sp?) Brown would have fit that role perfect, but the Pistons outbid the Hawks in the end.
It would be great to land a superstar big, but that is not going to happen. There are only like three of them on the planet anyways. Just get a big player (or two) to come off the bench and be able to hold their own. The big does not have to start.
And, if the big does start, like Mark said, do you really want Josh Smith playing the 3. I am in the not only no, but h#ll no catagory on that one. I can’t stomach anymore of his possession killing jump shots.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
3:09 pm
Good question, Boricua. Joe took 1,420 shots. Kobe took 1,710. D-Wade took 1,739. LeBron took 1,613. Nowitzki took 1,614.
But let me also note that those four were the league’s top four scorers. Joe finished 16th. And played more minutes than anybody.
Gerald Williams
May 12th, 2009
3:09 pm
Bradley needs to step back for this paper to move forward!
How about those Gwinnett Braves-
http://minorsandmajors.com/2009/674/gwinnett-braves-win-medlens-streak-intact
J.J.M.
May 12th, 2009
3:09 pm
Larry none of that is possible..first you are assuming that the players will accept a short term deal. “Trade Marvin, we need a Tyson Chandler, or Andris Biedrins type” come on now lol
shannon
May 12th, 2009
3:09 pm
We finally make it back to the 2nd round and get beat by a Cavs Team that is Really Dominant right now and everybody wants to get rid of Johnson.. Celtics and the magic wont stand a chance either.. He was constantly doubled team.. U know why Lebron wasnt Doubled team? Because he can dish it out to someone else to score..Think about it. The cavs picked up Mo Williams and that changed the way they played because u have a consistent 2nd option in Mo williams.. Josh Smith isnt Consistent enough.. The Cavs kept giving him the Open Jumper cause they knew it would be a bad shot.But yet he still would take it.Joe Johnson is the Star not on Kobe or Lebrons Level,he Got us here but until the Hawks have a True 2nd threat he will always be doubled team when we play better teams because they will make someone else beat them.
Gerald Williams
May 12th, 2009
3:13 pm
Marvin Williams is arguably our second (or third) best player. I can’t see just throwing out a #2 draft pick with the bathwater. Sounds dumb to me, Bradley.
Dave
May 12th, 2009
3:13 pm
MEGADEAL Williams, Josh, Law, Zaza for Chris Bosh, who wants out of Toronto and Toronto’s #1. Use their #1 to get Thabeet and our #1 to get a combo shooting point guard. Move Joe to the three spot and resign Bibby. Thabeet, Horford, Bosh, and Jones rotate at 4 and 5. Evans, Murray, Bibby and rookie rotate at 1 and 2. Finally Joe and Bosh rotate at 3. If you don’t want to resign Bibby or you really want a championship contender go after Ben Gordon as a free agent! Starting line up: Bosh, Horford, Johnson, Gordon, and Bibby with a nice bench with plenty of height for defensive matchups. Tons of firepower and good passers who all crave a championship! May even swap first round picks with Toronto to do the deal!
freshd
May 12th, 2009
3:14 pm
You can let the big man come off the bench, or let MARVIN be the 6th man if he is not traded. As WOODROW would say, “it”s all about the matchup in this league MAN”.
J.J.M.
May 12th, 2009
3:16 pm
Dave did you think about money getting all these players???
Astro Joe
May 12th, 2009
3:18 pm
I doubt that any of the teams with the elite superstars had 6 players averaging double-figures like the Hawks. In other words, the Hawks are an ensemble cast (think Law & Order) as opposed to a star vehicle (24). So when too many members of that ensemble are injured or don’t show up, guess what, the team loses and the few healthy ensemble members come off looking like they can’t carry the entire load.
Hollywould
May 12th, 2009
3:19 pm
Stick a fork in them. These guys play the dumbest of any team I have ever seen. May be the coaching or maybe just don’t know how to play.
It is not the playground. They were outhustled in every game. None of them can play man defense. None of them can help each other. They have their millions and play like it. Horford needs to gain 40 lbs to bang around all year long. Bibby can’t guard my gmaw in her wheelchair. Zilgakis9or whatever his name) must have beat jj to 5 loose balls himself. They stand around waiting for a rebound to come to them
while the Cavs sense where the ball might be bouncing to and go get it.
Sickening
Larry
May 12th, 2009
3:19 pm
JJM,
Bibby is 32, no one is going to get in a bidding war over him.
Flip will be easy to sign, he made 1.5 on a one year deal, he is deserving of a raise.
The Hornets basically gave Chandler away for a ham sandwich to Ok. City, and only was veteoed because of concerns of his injury.
Why isn’t any of this possible? What’s preventing it, do you really understand the NBA or just watch basketball. There is a difference you know?
JASon
May 12th, 2009
3:19 pm
Joe is a great player who gets a lot of negative press because he often wavers in the big games. Mike Bibby, on the other hand, thrives on the big games. I agree that we maybe need to re-evaluate how we structure the offense, but a 7 foot shot blocker would be a bigger priority for me than a guard.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
3:19 pm
Kwame Brown isn’t the answer.
Just for fun, let’s name five true (and effective) NBA centers. Ready? OK, Shaq. And Dwight Howard. And Yao. I count Duncan as a center, even though he’s listed as a forward. So that’s four. Who else? Is Pau Gasol a center? Is Chris Bosh? Is LaMarcus Aldridge? Is Zach Randolph? Would you rather have Andrew Bogut playing center than Horford?
Hawks are closer than you think
May 12th, 2009
3:20 pm
If we trade Joe Johnson for a big man and get Al (4 man) – Marvin (3 man) Josh (3 man, both are 3’s but they seem to alternate injuries so it works fine) – Bibby (1-2) zinging the rock around I think the Hawks will go deeper into the playoffs next year. So here is my question to the guys who know: what big man could the Hawks the get if we trade Joe (who is a great great player, but we have 3 guys that do almost the same thing) ??? and I agree with drafting a young point guard
kj
May 12th, 2009
3:22 pm
Mark Bradley what are you smoking. Keep Bibby. He is slow, can’t play defense, and he is getting old.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
3:22 pm
Marvin Williams isn’t the Hawks’ second-best player. He’s not even fourth-best.
BoricuaHawkFan
May 12th, 2009
3:23 pm
Thanks Mark. Good information. I do look forward for the day that JSmith and Horford blow it up. They certainly have the potential. I do wonder (OFTEN) what life would be without Woody. He’s had a good run when they didn’t have anywhere to go but up. I think he exceeded most of our expectations with a 47-win season. I’m certain they could’ve gone over 50 with the last second losses (Cavs, Boston) and THREE early loses to the Nets that should’ve never happened. I feel it’s a great time to part ways, the team gets a fresh perspective for the talent we have and he goes with a much improved resume. It’s a win-win. I hate the fact he never gave Acie a fair shot. He showed a slight chance of belonging to the league at the beginning of his first season and Woody has made him ride the bench without much chance to improve with experience.
shannon
May 12th, 2009
3:23 pm
i like the Josh Smith for Chris Bosh Trade…
RickNole
May 12th, 2009
3:24 pm
Sign and trade Marvin, bring back J-Chills, find someone similar to a big man to clog the middle, re-sign Bibby, and Flip. We would be in the ECF.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
3:25 pm
I’m not going to pretend Bibby is my ideal point guard. (He doesn’t penetrate and doesn’t defend.) But after so many years of looking for someone just play the position, are the Hawks going to let this one walk away? Especially when he works so well with Joe Johnson?
And don’t say, “Well, Acie Law could take over.” He couldn’t. Not for this coach, and maybe not for any coach.
diego
May 12th, 2009
3:26 pm
The Hawks offseason needs to have: Josh Smith spending 8+ hours in a hot as hell gym working on his medium to outside shot. The doors should be locked until he makes 1,000. This’ll give him a good outside/inside; inside/outside game to go with his stellar defensive skills. Plus it’ll also… hopefully… make him grow up and learn some discipline. It was embarrassing, as a Hawks’ fan, watching him b$tch and moan about every call or non-call.
I completely agree with Marvin Williams being traded. What a 2nd pick bust! Wasn’t happy when they picked him years ago and now I’m really upset. Just look out the Hawks’ season/playoff record when he didn’t play. Hopefully we can get a pick or a veteran for him.
For the draft, I think we need to get a solid big man rather than a point guard. Horford would be better at the 4. Josh could raise hell as a 3. We need a big man who can bang and defend. He doesn’t have to be too offensive minded. We have enough weapons on the floor. This will also move ZaZa to his better position of coming off the bench at either 4 or 5. I wish Law would have been something solid but he’s turning into a bust if not there already, but I think we could sign or trade for some up and coming PG to back up Bibby. Call Portland, they have a few international PGs that can play but are sitting on the bench.
Hawks need to feel embarrassed about getting swept bad by the Cavs and losing big to the Heat when they did lose. They can’t play like that, especially in the playoffs. The Cavs and D-Wade have swagger, but they also have confidence in themselves. We need that. Like we’re better than the other team… and actually be better than the other team.
Hawk Str8Talk
May 12th, 2009
3:26 pm
Mark,
I won’t say that I think Marvin is the answer, but as presently constituted – none of this works unless you fire Coach Woodson. there’s nothing in Coach Woodson’s philosophy to date that shows a willingness to play through the post. The fact that he admitted this season to playing Joe more minutes, so he would get into the All Star game is all we need to know about his loyalties.
So, I agree that if we can get something for Marvin (I was an advocate of making a super sub (a la Jason Terry or Manu Ginobili) and letting Evans start all season), re-sign Bibby with the ONLY purpose being a mentor to a drafted point guard (though again, you’d have to convince me that Coach Woodson is going to play the point guard – Law may have no future here, but it’s only b/c they have ruined him for this franchise, not b/c he doesn’t have talent that could have been developed). Under those conditions, your premise works to great effect. The problem is I seriously question whether our organization has the gonads to actually do the most important part of that, which is to force Coach Woodson to accept those changes and some assistant coaches who would design an offense and defense around your young forwards’ talents. Of course, that’s something I’d accept as a secondary option to just firing him altogether.
If we did that, I reject the trading of Marvin Williams just yet – I think a good coach can produce a team out of this bunch that could challenge every team (save Cleveland) in the East.
J.J.M.
May 12th, 2009
3:29 pm
Larry flip will get a big deal not a 2 year deal. bibby wants at least 3 or 4 to finish his career off. marvin for chandler sureee. yes i watch basketball but i also think like a GM. I think about the future also…meaning thinking about having plenty of money to keep my future players such as Horford and joe and maybe marvin williams but i would trade him now for more money and extra role players…Trading marvin to the bobcats for D.J Augustine or Raymond Felton and a draft pick is what i would do…most hawks fans are trying to fill the rosters with all these great players and not thiking about how much each player contract will be and not having money to re sign our future players.
steve
May 12th, 2009
3:29 pm
I agree wholeheartedly except I would keep Marvin. I think if healthy he can be an 18ppg – 9rpg kind of guy – not Chris Paul, but not bad either.
Dave
May 12th, 2009
3:30 pm
J.J.M. actually, one of the owners was talking about how solid they were financially the other day. If you got these guys you also deduct big payrolls with Williams and Josh and maybe the swap of first round picks makes sense economically as paying two first rounders plus Gordon would be too much! The other factor would be sellouts every game and very increased season ticket sales and marketing deals! With this line up the Cavaliers and the Magic would be the only other contenders until Lebron jumps ship for NY or New Jersey in 2010. Boston is just about done! The other option is not to resign Bibby and go with a younger and lower priced alternative!
Will The Thrill
May 12th, 2009
3:31 pm
Why trade Joe Johnson? Are you people crazy or are you just caught up in the “winning hype”? Its okay to expect our team to win but you have to understand that our team isn’t ready player wise. Bradley has a point. Joe shoots most of the shots but who does he have that’s consistent enough to take up the number two load. I bet if Josh Smith, Horford, and Evans were consistent at the mid-range Joe Johnson could lead the NBA in assists. He’s just worn-out guys from heavy minutes during the season. The man is human. Lebron, Kobe, and D-Wade have excellent supporting casts. We need a Center and J-Chills, our energy man off the bench..
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
3:32 pm
Can’t see the Bobcats parting with Augustin. And Felton is just so-so. (I thought he’d be better, but I was wrong.)
freshd
May 12th, 2009
3:34 pm
ANDREW BOGUT, are you kidding me? The guy has a stress fracture in his lower back. Check Marc Gasol”s stats, and there are no injuries. He played overseas before coming to the NBA. and is the same age as BOGUT the BUST.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
3:34 pm
And we should, at this point, take a reality check: The Hawks were the No. 4 seed. They beat the No. 5 seed. They lost to the No. 1 seed. As nice as it would have been for them to do more, they wound up going precisely as far as their record suggested they should go.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
3:35 pm
Consensus among Hawks insiders is that they really didn’t miss Childress during the regular season — but they did in the playoffs.
Ron
May 12th, 2009
3:36 pm
I was frustrated that so many times when Joe would pass the ball, the other Hawks made no attempt to get it back to him..I would much rather have Joe taking the shots in the fourth quarter than Flip Murray,,,how many off-balance, low percentage shots did Flip Murray take when the game was close,,,,Hawks need another scoring threat so the other teams can’t double and triple Joe at playoff time..
Shannon
May 12th, 2009
3:37 pm
Fire Woodson and get a coach in here that can COACH UP these guys. Mark I have always loved your work but you are way off on thinking we should keep Woodson. All he does is pout on the sidelines to the refs and is blaming the players instead of himself. Why do you think Joe Johnson is playing so bad. He wants Woodson to go. I am at every game so I feel like I am qualified to feel this way!!!!!! I didn’t become a fan just recently!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
3:38 pm
We can say this with no fear of contradiction: Flip isn’t ever going to lead the league in assists.
J.J.M.
May 12th, 2009
3:38 pm
Dave are you sure? last time i checked owners of the teams were always in court over money or something like that
Rob
May 12th, 2009
3:38 pm
I think for the Hawks to go further, first you sorry fans need to stop booing as soon as they don’t do well. I mean I could not believe I heard boos for Josh Smith because of a couple of bad 3’s. Really? Really? I mean, Really? And to speak of the practical, let’s throw out the talk about getting a center or weening themselves of too much Johnson. How about for once since the Wilkins era, that the Hawks actually try to find a superstar or draft a college player with superstar ability and cultivate him? The last time any NBA team won a championship WITHOUT a superstar was the 1979 Seattle Supersonics. The Pistons and Spurs are the only exception since then.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
3:39 pm
I don’t think Joe wants Woodson gone. I’ve never once gotten that impression.
J.J.M.
May 12th, 2009
3:39 pm
I still like solo hes our best shooting big. only if the coaching staff spend more time with him he would be nice off the bench
dap01
May 12th, 2009
3:41 pm
We could trade everyone but if we have Woody, we will still have the stagnant offense, the same lack of adjustments and the same iso, pound, pound, shoot a three offense.
We need changes starting with the coach.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
3:42 pm
Rob makes the key point. The easiest way to win a title is to luck into a superstar (or two). Otherwise it gets tough. But the Pistons did it in 2004, with the Billups-Rip-Tayshaun-Rasheed-Ben Wallace starting five. And Woodson was part of Larry Brown’s staff.
Dan
May 12th, 2009
3:42 pm
Mark,
You missed my point on Kwame Brown. He could have come off the bench and helped. He had a decent year with Detroit. He would have been usful here.
Don’t fall into the crowd that thinks the guy is useless just because he was the #1 pick. The Hawks would not need him to be a #1 pick player. They would just need him to knock heads and hold down the fort while the stater(s) rested. He could get that done. He would have to get that done, however, on the cheap. If not, screw him…
Shaq is on the way out. So, like I said, three dominate centers. Bosh is not a center. Alridge is not a center, but he is good (just not a banger). Hard to find a great center. So, don’t hold your nose up to the Kwame Brown types. There is a use for them in the league.
Guy I think would fit here is Fransisco Ellison. I have never understood why the Hawks have not gone after him. He is big, physical and can run.
Rob
May 12th, 2009
3:42 pm
SHANNON
Are you serious. I think you need to look at Woodsons’ record again. Since he has coached the Hawks, his record has improved by VERY noticeable margins EACH season. No other coach since Fratello has done this well. Be satisfied that he isn’t coaching against you with your division rivals Miami Heat.
Larry
May 12th, 2009
3:43 pm
JJM,
If you think Flip will get more than a two year deal ANYWHERE, I will concede the fact you are a basketball guru.
Hawks had a successfull season and the mere fact we are debating this on Mark’s blog is a testament of a great season.
Finally Hawks fans believing we can be better, now we just disagree on how to become better. Talk about progress from 2 years ago.
I still think the style of play is the Hawks primary problem. We play to slow, we are in bottom half of offensive pace for a team that excels in the open court. Woody is the problem.
Dan
May 12th, 2009
3:44 pm
I would love to see Childress back here. I hope the Spirit Group will make that happen.
P Gills
May 12th, 2009
3:44 pm
I think that you give Woodson 1 more year, but he really isn’t a coach that can take the hawks past round 2 in the playoffs. I don’t think you can trade JJ unless you can get a great player for him. Trading marvin doesn’t make too much sense, Marvin looked good in the regular season, and who will play three, we would still have the issue at PF with smith and horford. I think you keep JJ and Marvin, trade smith, and draft Mcmullens at center. What about signing artest of andre miller?
JT
May 12th, 2009
3:45 pm
This team won’t transform, in MY opnion, until they get rid of Woodson. You can’t win with his style of play. They play pretty good defense(good would be better) and they have no identity on offense. They can’t play half court(and no, giving it to JJ and isolating is NOT half court offense). And they don’t need to trade anyone but one of those clones they have, all those players the same size, plays the same position. Keep Bibby and draft a big man or point, so the rookie guard can learn something. Nothing against Woodson and i’d never advocate anyone losing their job but…….
Hawk Str8Talk
May 12th, 2009
3:45 pm
Here’s what you don’t want to see this offseason – Josh Smith working on jump shots or Al Horford working on jump shots, which are the things they said they wanted to work on this offseason. You need both of them to say – we’re going to work on our low post game, which would allow them to play through the post and by extension provide them with better positioning for rebounding.
And for the record, I agree that Acie Law IV is ruined as a point guard here, but I don’t agree that it’s due to his talent. I think it’s due to never been given a role, never being given consistent minutes, and being lied to by Coach Woodson about his importance to the team. I have seen no lack of effort or ability on the part of Acie Law other than the fact that he isn’t a shooter like Bibby. He is a better defender and better penetrator, so it stands to reason that it’s Coach Woodson who isn’t utilizing him for some reason. What that reason is would be great for the fans to know? I think it’s a glaring weakness of Coach Woodson’s that no player has gotten better as a result of playing for Mike Woodson. Basically, all the players are who they have always been under his tutelage.
cp
May 12th, 2009
3:45 pm
Mike Woodson is a joke. He admitted he ran his best player in the ground so he could make an all star game then ran him in the ground trying to secure the 4th seed. If he wanted other guys more involved in the offense why didn’t he just run plays for them? This cat still cant make adjustments, still makes silly substitutions, and still cant develop some of the young talent we have…What is our offensive system? Its time for a new coach…. I like Marvin but its plainly clear that he will never be what many thought he would be. He just is not aggressive enough. He is happy with being the fourth option on a team.. I’m all for a sign and trade of Marvin… Moving Horford to the pf spot makes no difference to me other than defensively. I like the kid but he has no offensive game. When he was playing the pf position when Josh was out he pretty much put the the same numbers he was putting up from the center position. He really needs to work on his post game this off season. I’m kind of split on Bibby. On one hand I like him because of his ability to hit shots but his defense is so terrible and I know he wants a long term deal where as I would only offer him a short team deal… I see Law being moved too but only if Woodpecker is back… He is not going to give the kid a shot so if he is back Law will probably be moved.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
3:47 pm
I would never trade Josh Smith. No way.
And the ball, as we say, is really in Childress’ court. He can walk away from Olympiakos. That’s the way the contract was done. But he’d have to come back to the Hawks, who’d either have to re-sign him or work a sign-and-trade.
J.J.M.
May 12th, 2009
3:48 pm
Larry oh i still love my hawks no matter what. I have never said anything negative about them on here. I even went to two playoff games against the heat to support, but after the hawks lost game 4 i was watching barkley and the tnt crew they said flip will get a big deal somewhere
KC in Smyrna
May 12th, 2009
3:48 pm
I am hoping Childress gets homesick and returns to he states next year. We missed his perimeter defense and baseline rebounding in both series. He also gives us another long defender to play against Lebron/Wade/Pierce/etc. He can’t stop them, but he was a good piece. I want him back after he is done stealing money in Greece.
BTW. The US Dollar has bounced back so he’s not going net as much $$$ as he originally thought.
My Plan:
- Resign Bibby for 2-3 years (he will not sign for less)
- Or go heavy after Jarrett Jack. He plays defense, drives to the hole, and has all around game although not quite the shooter that Bibby is.
- We need one of those old Centers to come off the bench. Sign one of Tony Battie, Maglore, Adonal Foyle, etc. Some large big man to provide some resistance off the bench.
- We really need some toughness. Someone should have put Lebron on the court after some of those drives. If you can’t guard him, hit him hard enough to make him shot jump shots. Can’t believe how soft we were.
Rob
May 12th, 2009
3:49 pm
Everyone is saying get rid of Woodson. I want someone to point out to me why a team should get rid of a coach after that coach improves his team each and EVERY season he’s been here.
J.J.M.
May 12th, 2009
3:49 pm
KC in Smyrna i forgot about jack
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
3:49 pm
I’ll have to disagree. Josh Smith is hugely improved. Is he as good yet as he can be? No. But he’s way better than he was in 2004.
Rob
May 12th, 2009
3:50 pm
In fact, this is the first time the Hawks have been out of the 1st round in 10 years. Right?