Johnson needs to step back for the Hawks to step forward
Much has to happen. The Hawks need to re-sign Mike Bibby, to work a sign-and-trade with Marvin Williams and to draft a guard, preferably Eric Maynor of VCU, in Round 1. But for this team to climb from pretty good to really good, something more must be done.
The Hawks must wean themselves from their reliance on Joe Johnson.
Almost every bit of the Hawks’ offense since 2005 has run through Johnson, and it’s past time for an adjustment. It’s not that he isn’t a fine player; it’s that this team has two younger players who require room to grow.
Come 2011, Josh Smith and Al Horford should be the Hawks’ best players. (And this assumes Johnson re-ups next summer.) Together, Smith and Horford took 1,443 shots this regular season. By himself, Johnson took 1,420. Save the occasional lob, the team doesn’t run many plays for Smith. It runs almost none for Horford.
Johnson isn’t a ball hog – he led the team in assists, ahead of Bibby – but he’s the focal point. You can be a focal point if you’re LeBron or Kobe or D-Wade, but Johnson isn’t quite. The Hawks would be better served if he played fewer minutes – he led the NBA in those – and took fewer shots.
Would Johnson be amenable? “I would,” he said Tuesday. “But I don’t know if that’s going to be the case. I have a passion and love for the game. Sometimes the coach tries to take me out, and I tell him to leave me in. It’s not that I’m selfish – it’s just my passion for the game.”
Is the goal to stoke Johnson’s fire or to win more games? He was demonstrably fatigued in the postseason and admitted as much. Save for the final three quarters of Game 7 against Miami, he was never the Johnson whom co-owner Michael Gearon Jr. calls “the greatest Hawk since Dominique.”
Sorry, there are no polls available at the moment.Johnson has filled an essential role. More than anyone else, he lifted the Hawks up from squalor. For this team to go further, he needs to work as well with Smith and Horford as he does with Bibby. He needs to become a leader, not just a scorer.
Horford won two NCAA titles with a team famous for sharing the ball. He’s not one to make requests. But here was his reaction when asked if he’d like more shots: “Yeah, every player would. Count me in for that.”
Do the Hawks run much for him? “They don’t,” said Horford, who took fewer shots than Flip Murray. “But I understand. I know what it takes: I have to work on my game and make them give me the ball a little more.”
Would Mike Woodson be willing to work Johnson less? “Without a doubt,” the coach said. “Did I wear him down? Sure. But I needed to ride him to get us where we needed to go.”
For this team to reach the next level, Smith and Horford must pull more of the load. They’re 23. (Johnson is 27.) They’re the future.
Williams is not. So long as he’s here, he’ll always be the guy who isn’t Chris Paul, and there should be teams willing to work a sign-and-trade. Bibby should stay because the Hawks went too long without a point guard. And another guard should be the focus of this draft because there won’t be a big man around when the Hawks pick.
But the big transition has to be internal. Johnson cannot be the lone star any longer. For the good of all, he must become one of the gang.
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259 comments Add your comment
Jones
May 12th, 2009
4:55 pm
Also, Mark, where does a guy like Brandan Wright play on the Hawks? With Josh Smith? Who scores on that team? As you note, they need someone to help Joe carry the load. He’d be a nice player to have off the bench, but Marvin is a legit NBA starter even if he may never be an all-star. You don’t trade a 22-year-old starter for a bench guy who can’t defend his position or score.
I do realize that Wright is just one idea, but it goes to show how talking about trading these guys is one thing in the abstract, but it’s hard to make the specifics make sense (for both teams). If they could trade him for Lamarcus Aldridge — Marvin is from Washington and Portland needs a small forward — I would do that, but I doubt Portland would.
Hawk Str8Talk
May 12th, 2009
5:05 pm
I will answer your question, Rob, though you didn’t really answer mine. If the Hawks made the ECF, I would reconsider my stance on Mike Woodson based on results. The thing is though – I said at mid-season that we were headed for a possible first round loss and a sure second round sweep if we continued to not do the things that you need to do in the playoffs. So, I don’t think I’m ever going to be confronted with the fact that I’ll need to reconsider it.
My predictions regarding the season have come to fruition. We would have been swept regardless of Al Horford’s injury status. Horford hasn’t been the contributor he can be b/c he’s an afterthought on offense (i.e. we don’t work the post as a coaching decision) and is limited by the fact that we don’t play sound defense. His biggest contribution right now is as a leader on this team. Unfortunately, that’s muted due to his youth and deferential demeanor. So, you can give Coach Woodson and the Hawks credit for winning a playoff seriesm, but I do not. The Heat were awful. simply put. I would have given them credit if they won in 4 or 5, but not 7 (and certainly not when you are getting blown out by a bad team). There’s something wrong when each of your 9 losses in the postseason are by double digits. You can’t blame that on injuries or players totally. What is it about your team that makes them disappear at the sign of an impending loss when other teams are having injuries and are competing or (in the Rockets, Magic, and Bulls cases) winning. That toughness also comes from your coach. What’s your explanation for Coach Woodson’s admission after Game 1 where he said ‘I probably didn’t coach my best and I need to put them in better positions to win basketball games.’ In essence saying, in the biggest game of my professional coaching career – I didn’t coach my best. Huh? I could go on for days, but I won’t. I’m not trying to convince you of anything. You seem to be convinced that you are right. I used to be convinced that Josh Smith would learn to stop jump shots – I’ve been corrected REPEATEDLY.
What I’m saying is..I have an answer besides I don’t like Coach Woodson. I am pointing out consistent patterns that have caused the Hawks to perform less than their best. Even Joe’s injury was a mistake on Coach Woodson’s part in my opinion. For a player who went to the media the day before and said ‘I’m tired’ to be in the game when you’re down 30 in the second half is beyond short sighted.
So, I ask you again, Rob. What besides your we won more games argument are you giving credit to Coach Woodson for? I’m saying that I don’t buy your wins argument. Even if that’s something you want to give the coach credit for – you can’t ignore the fact that any coach would have had similar results years 1-4 due to the fact that they were playing rookies and NBDL level players regular up until year 3. So, it’s not fair to simply use that measure, though I admit that you can’t take that away from Coach Woodson totally, so I’m again saying do you have another measure that I’ve missed that would lead you to believe he’s going to take this team further? Are you saying that his offense is good, his defense is good, his motivational tactics are good, his player development is good, his in-game adjustments are good? What is the thing you’re saying that makes Coach Woodson a good coach for this team?
jake
May 12th, 2009
5:05 pm
The hawks don’t need to trade marvin… what they got to do is get a guard in the draft to back up bibby and big man free agent veteran to put at center and move horford to PF smith to SF KEEP joe at SG and bib at PG and use marvin as a 6th man like j-chill a year ago… this team doesn’t need to get rid of everyone, they made it to the second round of the playoffs. They have improved under mike woodson every year… there at there peak where they’ll shine the next year. Why break a atl b-ball team playin in the playoffs. GO HAWKS!!!
Reggie
May 12th, 2009
5:08 pm
Mark
think this hawks team reminds me of the Nuggets from last year..{talented ,but immature}..see if you can get a leader similar to what Denver got with Chancey Billips..{Antonio Mcydess comes to mind}..if we can get a leader like that this team can take that next step..also resign Mike Bibby..{3yrs 21 million,& Flip Murray]..trade Marvin Williams….. a young PG{Ty Lawson}..get Josh Childress to come back here..and here is a sleeper name for the hawks….Marcin Gortat from Orlando..he is their backup center & he is a restricted free agent..GET HIM!!
Hawk Fan
May 12th, 2009
5:19 pm
Big man or guard, what the Hawks need is a leader. Look at Denver with Billups (see article) as what leadership can do for a team.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=090511/billups
niremetal
May 12th, 2009
5:27 pm
Mark,
Gotta say that I’m just amused at this point by your takes on Marvin vs. Josh. You and Schultz really do sound like people who didn’t tune into Hawks games until the playoffs. Marvin scored 28 and 30 in the two games that the Hawks played without JJ. As soon as JJ was healthy again, Woodson had him go back to being a spot-up shooter. He also had become our top perimeter defender before he got hurt this year. The regulars on Sekou’s blog remember when played a game of stifling perimeter D against LeBron, with Lebron scoring 12 of his 26 points during the 10 minutes that Marvin was out of the game. LeBron even tipped his hat to Marvin after the game, but I guess you weren’t paying attention then.
Marvin is a combo forward who has a smoothness to his game that Josh never will develop. He also has a much more team-oriented approach – he’ll step up and score big when other guys are cold or injured, and will play his role in the offense otherwise. I’m not saying he’s a star, but he’s worth the $8M/yr that he’ll probably be offered in free agency.
As far as him being inessential, he’s our best perimeter defender. Name me another 6′8+ guy with his wingspan, quickness, and on-ball decisionmaking who can guard the vast majority of players who play at 1-4. Seriously, LeBron and Battier aside, who?
As for Smoove? He is what he is – a supremely athletic power forward who shows flashes of brilliance, but who makes mental lapses all too often. He improved on the latter flaw during his first 3 years in the league. But the last two, he hasn’t shown any improvement. Marvin on the other hand showed the greatest progress of any Hawk from ‘07-09 – but that’s something that people only would notice if they watched the games instead of simply reading the box scores, checking the stat sheets, and reading Hollinger’s column.
It’s like Astro Joe said – you’re too hung up on his draft position. And it’s not necessarily a knock against you and Schultz that you obviously don’t watch all the games – if I had to cover 4 pro sports teams plus tons of college teams, I wouldn’t have time to watch the Hawks every day either. But I trust Sund watches the Hawks more carefully than you or Schultz do, so we’ll see what he does. Something tells me he and most other GMs will view Marvin as more valuable than you do.
preston
May 12th, 2009
5:28 pm
Mark-
I completely agree with your assesment of the team and your thoughts on Marvin……it has become painfully obvious to admit that the returns on him for being a no.2 pick are modest……not the worst pick, but just not the expected dividends for such a pricey investment. Well I guess if Acie doesnt have a future here, he should be given a chance elsewhere, but I am still not convinced that he could not have played here. Law showed some promise last year with his quickness and range, but Woodson never really gave him a chance, and now he appears to be damaged goods. How realistic would it be for us to get Boozer and Jack…..I think both of those guys would bring really solidify this team and get us to the next level.
Briefs
May 12th, 2009
5:30 pm
First order of business, the Hawks need to let Zaza go and sign the Birdman to rebound, block shots and finish for 15 minutes off the bench.
niremetal
May 12th, 2009
5:32 pm
That was supposed to be “guard the vast majority of players who play at “2-4,” not “1-4.”
PS – I agree with your take on JJ. We ask him to do way too much on offense. It both exhausts him and makes the team predictable.
B-rad
May 12th, 2009
5:34 pm
I agree with briefs…Chris Anderson “birdman” would be a pretty great pickup. Right now in the draft the Hawks are projected to take jeff teague which I think could fit them nicely. I also don’t mind the idea of a sign and trade with Marvin to possibly get Jarret Jack and maybe find a way to get Roy Hibbert. He is a big body that could possibly help.
freshd
May 12th, 2009
5:35 pm
The NBA.NET mock draft has the HAWKS drafting JEFF TEAGUE from Wake Forest. He would be a good pick, but he would spend most of his playing time on the bench, because WOODROW doesn”t know how to develop young guards. See SALIM, AC LAW. ROYAL IVERY.
Briefs
May 12th, 2009
5:39 pm
Hawks should either trade Marvin or Joe for a young big man like Marc Gasol, Roy Hibbert or Andrew Bynum. Notice how I mentioned all Centers, this would move Horford back to his natural position as a Power Forward. The only problem is that Josh Smith would need to improve his jumper by leaps and bounds otherwise this trade would be a waste.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
5:40 pm
For what it’s worth, I’m not big on Jeff Teague. I’d rather have Tywon Lawson. Or Tyreke Evans, even though he’s more a combo guard.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
5:41 pm
I do like the Birdman, however. And he is a free agent.
freshd
May 12th, 2009
6:01 pm
What about DARREN COLLISON or TONEY DOUGLAS. EVANS and LAWSON are predicted to go before the HAWKS pick.
Reid Adair
May 12th, 2009
6:01 pm
Mark, I agree 100 percent – especially about “backing down” on Joe Johnson’s offensive dependency.
There was a time when Johnson was all the Hawks had for offense; that time has past. Let Josh Smith and Al Horford take more of the offense.
Cuz
May 12th, 2009
6:01 pm
Birdman was one of my favorite cartoon shows when I was a kid also Mark.
tomshoupe
May 12th, 2009
6:03 pm
The Hawks will not win and NBA title until they step up and aquire a key player. They donot have a Wade, Bryant, or James type player who can cause a team to win when they need to. they have only had one in their history and we know what they did with him. Get a name brand coach who has won a championship. They have had that opportunity and did not pursue them.
The Real Fan
May 12th, 2009
6:22 pm
Marvin Williams is NOT the answer at small forward. We need a consistent scorer at that position. He is not it. Move on.
niremetal
May 12th, 2009
6:31 pm
Unless your name is Joe Johnson, the words “consistent scorer” have no meaning when you’re playing under Mike Woodson. Woody relegated Marvin to the role of spot-up shooter, just like he relegated Horford to the post…and then never called a play for him.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
6:32 pm
Collison is awfully small. And Toney Douglas isn’t a point guard.
Xavier
May 12th, 2009
6:40 pm
1st I want to congratulations to the Hawks on a great season. I think the Hawks have a major decision to make. If Woody stays as coach, Josh Smith has to go. If Josh stays, Woody has to go. I lean toward trading Josh for a PG and a draft pick and/or 6th man type of player. I think Josh makes entirely too many mental mistakes(after 5 yrs. in the league) and his jump shooting has regressed to the point that defenses don’t even close out on him when he’s wide open. That should embarrass any NBA player that shoots as many jumpers as he does. I just don’t think Josh will ever fulfill the potential people have placed upon him while Woody is the head coach. They just don’t mesh. Now one player that I do like, and I think that the Hawks should look into is the backup center for the Magic, Gortat. He’s a big and that would allow Horford to move to PF and Marvin to SF. Josh can be traded for a PG or combo guard allowing Bibby to leave. Now I have faith in Marvin. Each season his game has expanded. I just think in 2 more seasons, Marvin will put everything together(Outside game, attack the basket, and defend better than most SF). Let Flip go(he making some major dollars next season) bring back Childress and David Andersen from overseas put AC in the mix. And last but not least change the offensive philosophy and I like our chances.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
6:43 pm
One thing that needs to be said before we venture any further: We on the ol’ blog are playing with Monopoly money. What remains to be seen is if the owners will spend what it takes to move this team from 47 wins to 55. And it will take quite a bit of spending.
MBZ
May 12th, 2009
6:53 pm
The trade question is an appropriate one…. I think Mike Bibby is the one who should leave, and Josh Smith is the one who should be traded. Most teams would kill for wings like Marvin and Joe. You cant pickup defending, 240 pound wing players that have such a good offensive skill set everyday. I think Josh Smith has one more season to put it all together. If he ever gets serious about developing his shot, he would be one of the best finishers in the League. It’s hard to see that happening and i think everybody feels Horford’s future is at the Power Forward. Mike Bibby cant penetrate or play defense. I think Rick Sund needs to light a fire under Smith in his end of season interview to get in the gym with Mark Price and develop his midrange jumper. If that doesnt happen, trade him for a legit Center. Or a promising project center like DeAndre Jordan. We need to get a guy who can run a team to free up Johnson so he can run off screens and take quick shots. Whether that is Eric Maynor or Acie Law is something Sund will have to decide. The offense needs to be run a little more through Marvin Williams because he gets to the line and can penetrate. EVERY SINGLE ONE of our starters, with the exception of Mike Bibby, can be an all star if they are used properly. We need a coach who will create an offense that works for the players we have. Chicago simplified the HECK out of their offense to accommodate derrick rose. We need a Coach who will believe in his players, believe in his bench, and run sets that utilizes the strengths of this team.
gclcpa
May 12th, 2009
6:55 pm
Well, you got one part right. Josh Smith SHOULD be one of the teams top players in 2011. However, it should be intuitively obvious to the most casual of observers that Smith will never realize all that “potential.” He has phenomenal physical abilities, but unfortunately he makes dumb decisions, doesn’t rebound with any consistency whatsoever, and insists on being an outside shooting PF. We got beat on the boards this year and especially in the playoffs. We need a PF who will get in there and fight for rebounds, not hang out by the three point line and hang around whining at the referees.
Cliff Levingston
May 12th, 2009
7:05 pm
I say…
• Dump Bibby, re-sign Flip and move him to the point (I was a Bibby supporter for a long time, but his defense really is holding this team back).
• Sign a combo guard who’s capable of guarding a 1 (Joe’s a little too big to guard a point)
• Move Joe to small forward.
• Keep Josh and Horford where they’re at.
…The easy answer is to say “sign a dominant big man.” But this is 2009 and they’re not a dime a dozen.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 12th, 2009
7:05 pm
This was a very good article, and the central message rings true. We all know at this point that Joe Johnson is not a superstar, and if this team is going to improve it cannot rely on him as if he is one. Barring a trade, this team has to employ a spread-the-wealth offense where the ball is shared evenly and the front court and back court get a roughly equal distribution of shot opportunities. We’ve been clamoring all year on Sekou Smith’s blog that Josh Smith, and to a lesser extent Al Horford, don’t get the ball enough in the post — not that either one is a very polished post scorer yet, but both are pretty good passers when there is some structure to the offense, and getting the ball inside always initiates greater ball movement and open looks for the Hawks.
In order for Woody to fully rely on Josh and Al inside, though, Josh absolutely has to become better at using his right hand, and Al has to develop a post move that takes him towards the basket in a position to get fouled. As it is, Josh is very good with his left hand and almost useless with his right, and Al is not bad at nailing his turnaround jumper but doesn’t really have any moves that draw contact. Both those things have to change in order for them to become truly reliable post options.
I also agree that Marvin has more trade value than he does value as a member of this team. I’m a little on the fence as to whether Bibby must be re-signed; on the one hand, it would probably take Acie a while to learn the ropes and become as reliable at that position as Bibby currently is, but on the other hand starting Acie would be a defensive upgrade, and looking at how Rajon Rondo has developed in Boston with more accomplished players around him leads me to believe Acie probably wouldn’t be much worse than Bibby by the end of one season.
The only thing to which I take exception is the suggestion to draft another young point guard that Woody would bury on the bench behind Bibby. Maynor is nice, but he definitely didn’t accomplish anything more in college than Acie. There’s no point wasting a draft pick on something we already have. Draft a guy like DeJuan Blair who will instantly add toughness, physicality, and depth inside without requiring the ball in his hands in order to make an impact, and you’ll see this team improve instantly. Draft a guy like Maynor, and who knows whether you will ever see the returns you expect on draft day.
freshd
May 12th, 2009
7:10 pm
I think AARON BROOKS of the HOUSTON ROCKETS has shown that if you have a quick small guard, you can cause matchup problems. C. PAUL is small and he won a GOLD MEDAL. Toney Douglas would make a good shooting guard who can get to the basket.
cp
May 12th, 2009
7:19 pm
Great post by Hawk Str8Talk and HawksFan….This draft is pg heavy the only problem is we have a coach in Woody who does not like rookie pgs. I feel like it will be Salim and Law all over again if we take another young promising guard. There are not many quality big men in this draft so pg will probably be our pick. I don’t want to waste another pick on a guard we wont play. If Woodpecker is here again which I believe he will be then he really has to change his ways.
WR
May 12th, 2009
7:39 pm
Mark I think you said it best without really saying it, the best that Joe Johnson will ever be is a role player. He’s the type of player that can keep you in games or maybe even help you win a few games when your go to guy-star player is struggling. Funneling everything through Johnson will lead to Woodson’s demise. He likes to compare things to the Detroit team he was a part of as a assistant but he fells to realize that, that team played inside out. R.Wallace, B.Wallace, and Tayshaun Prince worked the post, yes R.Wallace and Prince had the range to step out but primarily when the team was in trouble they worked the ball inside and found their shooters outside. Sadly Woodson fells to realize the Hawks have the same makeup without the proper coaching. Personally I agree trade Marvin, but realistically Tayshaun and Marvin have the same game, Josh and Rasheed Wallace have very similar game with Josh having a better upside, Horford just as Ben Wallace was, is an undersized center but he has a far better game then Ben Wallace. Now look at Joe Johnson in comparison to Rip Hamilton,Joe is a far better player he can post, shoot the three and dish out the ball,the only shortcoming is that Chauncey Billups is far better than Bibby both offensively and especially defensively but for the most part this team compares favoritably to that Championship Detroit team without the coaching. The days of centers dominating Championship games are gone, everyone wants to point at the center position because they don’t see a 7-footer down there, but the reality is that a dominate center hasn’t been a part of a Championship team sense the Shaq led Heat won the title, before that it was the Shaq led Lakers and before that it was the Tandem of David Robinson and Tim Duncan. Its not that the Hawks are missing a center its that they have focused their leadership in the wrong place, funny how ironic it is that the Hawks have a leadership problem when considering the state of their ownership.
Simpdawg
May 12th, 2009
8:15 pm
The Hawks need to let Mike Bibby, Solomon Jones, and Speedy Claxton sign elsewhere as free agents; resign Flip Murray and reacquire Josh Childress and David Andersen from Europe; Draft a point guard who knows how to run a team with their first pick, or use it to acquire Ramon Sessions or Jarrett Jack. They should use their second pick on the best center available, either Josh Hevtvelt or Garret Siver; sign and trade Marvin Williams for a pure shooter or an enforcer; last but not least we need to acquire a head coach who knows how to develop young players and a bench. I would have to say, the Hawks have their work cut out for them this offseason.
v8dreaming
May 12th, 2009
8:17 pm
seems to me that joe WAS a smaller part of the offense during the playoffs. that’s why it went to 7 games with miami and why we got swept by cleveland. he didn’t score, he wasn’t aggressive at all and he wasn’t a leader. the “i’m tired” excuse is lame. kobe avgs. 36 mins a game. lebron avgs 37.7 mins a game. are they tired? no. i seriously doubt that 3-4 minutes a game really matters that much.
trade marvin williams? you mean the one forward that has a jump shot, can hit 3’s and isn’t so one dimensional on offense and defense and doesn’t pout like a 3 year old when he doesn’t get a call?
trade josh smith and his bad attitude for a center. all he can do is dunk and block a shot here and there. he has NO jump shot what so ever. every time he tried a three i wanted to throw something at my tv. don’t get me wrong, he can be exciting, but he is vastly overpaid and with his attitude, he needs to go. we can get more for him than williams and williams is a smarter player. move horford to smith’s spot and put in the center we get for smith. resign bibby for one year, maybe two for a smaller amount than what he’s making now, he is not an elite pg, and either start playing ac or draft a true pg somehow.
D.Ellis
May 12th, 2009
8:44 pm
I would:
-Trade Smith/Law/#1 for Bosh
-Bring back Chills as our 6th
-Move Joe to 3
-Resign Flip and start him at the 2
-Move Horford to 4
-Move up in draft to get back up point
-Make a play for a 2nd tier Free agent.
-THATS INSTANT OFFENSE
-Bench-Solo/ZAZA/CHILLS/EVANS/
D.Ellis
May 12th, 2009
8:45 pm
I would:
-Trade Smith/Law/#1 for Bosh
-Bring back Chills as our 6th
-Move Joe to 3
-resign Bibby
-Resign Flip and start him at the 2
-Move Horford to 4
-Move up in draft to get back up point
-Make a play for a 2nd tier Free agent.
-THATS INSTANT OFFENSE
-Bench-Solo/ZAZA/CHILLS/EVANS/
D.Ellis
May 12th, 2009
8:49 pm
WHAT ABOUT CHRIS KAMAN?
D.Ellis
May 12th, 2009
9:01 pm
-Trade Smith/Law/19th pick to Raptors for Bosh/#9 pick and draft Lawson or Maynor
Jay
May 12th, 2009
9:05 pm
Here’s what you have to consider if we trade Marvin…can we get someone better for cheaper? The answer is probably no, plus I still believe his best games are yet to come.
I’m more open to trading Smith or Horford as part of a package for a second scorer. Why? Because we eventually have to decide which player will make us a better power forward. Both can’t co-exist because Horford isnt a true center, and the Cavs exposed this weakness. He didnt have a chance against Z, except to shoot jumpers. So he has to play power forward to be correctly used. And Josh cant hit a jumper consistently enough to play sf. So he has to play power forward as well.
Horford, we get better rebounding and a leader, but what looks like a limited offensive game. With Smith we get a potential all-star, a rare athletic talent, but also a bad attitude, a penchant to be lazy, and a love for bricking jumpers.
I would also be open to a JJ + Horford for Bosh and filler, then sign Chills to be our shooting guard.
Xavier
May 12th, 2009
9:21 pm
And one more thing. Everyone is saying Joe is not this or that. Sounds kinda like the way Boston fans were talking about Paul Pierce before K.G. and Ray. Put some better talent around Joe and he will lead the way,
Shannon
May 12th, 2009
9:25 pm
Rob
I wish you would say something that makes sense. You are yet to answer Hawk str8talk’s question. Again starting at with so few wins and getting more each year is not the barometer for success. It is how the players you have been dealt get better.
Forget what your opinion and that of the rest of us that want him to go is………. but google Mike Woodson and what ESPN and Fox Sports have said about him over the past week. All of the experts have said he needs to be let go since he has not gotten the best out of the players he has been given. Also, last week I Tivo the game ( I actually go to them all) and TNT ate Woodson alive for the way he coaches.
So maybe what we think don’t matter….. but ALL OF THE EXPERTS THINK HE HAS DONE A BAD JOB. BUT WHO ARE THEY????? THEY ONLY DO IT FOR A LIVING !!!!!!!
Jay
May 12th, 2009
9:39 pm
Mark, what makes you so sure Acie Law has no future here, or in the league? Are Hawks officals/scouts that down on him? Or just your own observations?
BravesFan79
May 12th, 2009
10:04 pm
“Did I wear him down? Sure. But I needed to ride him to get us where we needed to go.”
So does this statement include when he played him while losing by 32 in Cleveland?? Or giving a clearly hurt Horford starters minutes over ZaZa in game 1?
Face it….. Woodson make Hewitt look like a great coach in comparison. He MUST GO!!
I wonder if Lenny Wilkens would like another shot?
dean
May 12th, 2009
10:19 pm
Trade Woodson for Avery and things will be better
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
11:06 pm
Let’s be clear about this: Joe is more than a role player, a lot more. But he’s not one of the five best players in the league. And unless you have one of those five — LeBron, Kobe, D-Wade, Howard, Paul — you’d better maximize all available assets. The Hawks have gotten close to maximum value from Joe, but they’re only scratching the surface with Smith and Horford.
TheHawksFan
May 12th, 2009
11:34 pm
Im trying to figure out How did Mo and Morris get 2 year deals and Flip got a 1 year deal?? That really ties the Hawks hands. BUT to beat the Best you have to Be the Best. Forget the Woodson leaving talk, unless your willing to pay to buy him out. Forget ANY rookie PG out there. Woody is not gonna play em, why waste the time and money. We need BIGs. Take ZaZa’s 6 mil to after Big ILL from the Cavs or the Birdman in Denver. Bibby is the key. Will he take 6 mil a year for 3 years? I think thats plenty. Give Flip the other 6 mil. Create a package from Law/Speedy/Evans/Morris and/or Draft Pick can give you a ten mil option in sign n trade too if you wanna keep ZaZa and try to STEAL House or Powe away from the Celts. Barnes from the Suns is another option also. I just think how ever you work it, You have to go after some of the best players on the remaining Playoff teams.
Xavier
May 12th, 2009
11:37 pm
Mark I’m curious as to why do you think Smith has a higher ceiling than Williams. I love Josh like the next fan but I refuse to blinded by his athleticism. Smith to me seems miles away from being a cornerstone (reliable) of our franchise. Offensively he can’t handled the basketball so I don’t see him as a person we can post up yet or even isolate on the wing. He has zero outside game and the free throw shooting is unexplainable(from 71% to 58%?) He’s just an athletic 4 that plays great weakside defense(as an on the ball defender he is below average to me). I mean he was exposed in the Miami series when Beasley decided to take him off the dribble. I guess the better question is do you think Josh has the commitment to improve upon his weaknesses. I look at the improvement Williams has made each season and I’m pretty sure Williams will add another dimension to his game.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 12th, 2009
11:43 pm
“And one more thing. Everyone is saying Joe is not this or that. Sounds kinda like the way Boston fans were talking about Paul Pierce before K.G. and Ray. Put some better talent around Joe and he will lead the way,”
Excellent point.
Moon Man
May 12th, 2009
11:49 pm
GET RID OF WOODSON AND THEN ——————————BLOW IT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
T. Scott
May 12th, 2009
11:56 pm
Take this: if he opts out, how about Jamal Crawford as our pg?
The Peach
May 13th, 2009
12:01 am
I agree with MB. I have been watching the Hawks since 1996-1997 season when we had Steve Smith, Deke, D-Lock, Laettner and Corbin etc and continue to watch them today. I’ve watched Joe Johnson ALL season on either FSS or CSS…not just the post season. He is a first option at best but second option at worst.
Why?? That’s due to his ability to score in a variety of ways, his talent, basketball IQ ,versatility and solid perimeter defense. I can list his skills.
He can post up, great 3 point shooter, great mid-range shooter, great ball-handler, great isolation player, excellent passer, can score with EITHER hand at the rim IF he gets to the rim (I’ve seen him do it many times this season), can dribble left OR right, can pull up in transition and half court, can create his own shot off the dribble, can play pick and roll (but Woodson refuses to call many pick and roll plays, just ISO Joe or screen and roll) and he can defend the perimeter players as well… thought he did a nice job on Dwyane Wade IF the Hawks didn’t switch. He might not be the most athletic player but he was way more athletic when he was with the Suns.
These qualities he has are the assets of superstars and he has superstar talent. But you can’t win championships with only one supertar talent. You either have to have two players that demand a double team or just a solid all-around starting five (like the 2004 Detroit Pistons). The Hawks don’t have a complete starting five…
The Peach
May 13th, 2009
12:05 am
Xavier is right…Josh Smith is and will perhaps be no better than Derrick Coleman. A very athletic player with all the raw talent in the world but LACKS the discipline and hard work it takes to become an elite player…