Johnson needs to step back for the Hawks to step forward
Much has to happen. The Hawks need to re-sign Mike Bibby, to work a sign-and-trade with Marvin Williams and to draft a guard, preferably Eric Maynor of VCU, in Round 1. But for this team to climb from pretty good to really good, something more must be done.
The Hawks must wean themselves from their reliance on Joe Johnson.
Almost every bit of the Hawks’ offense since 2005 has run through Johnson, and it’s past time for an adjustment. It’s not that he isn’t a fine player; it’s that this team has two younger players who require room to grow.
Come 2011, Josh Smith and Al Horford should be the Hawks’ best players. (And this assumes Johnson re-ups next summer.) Together, Smith and Horford took 1,443 shots this regular season. By himself, Johnson took 1,420. Save the occasional lob, the team doesn’t run many plays for Smith. It runs almost none for Horford.
Johnson isn’t a ball hog – he led the team in assists, ahead of Bibby – but he’s the focal point. You can be a focal point if you’re LeBron or Kobe or D-Wade, but Johnson isn’t quite. The Hawks would be better served if he played fewer minutes – he led the NBA in those – and took fewer shots.
Would Johnson be amenable? “I would,” he said Tuesday. “But I don’t know if that’s going to be the case. I have a passion and love for the game. Sometimes the coach tries to take me out, and I tell him to leave me in. It’s not that I’m selfish – it’s just my passion for the game.”
Is the goal to stoke Johnson’s fire or to win more games? He was demonstrably fatigued in the postseason and admitted as much. Save for the final three quarters of Game 7 against Miami, he was never the Johnson whom co-owner Michael Gearon Jr. calls “the greatest Hawk since Dominique.”
Sorry, there are no polls available at the moment.Johnson has filled an essential role. More than anyone else, he lifted the Hawks up from squalor. For this team to go further, he needs to work as well with Smith and Horford as he does with Bibby. He needs to become a leader, not just a scorer.
Horford won two NCAA titles with a team famous for sharing the ball. He’s not one to make requests. But here was his reaction when asked if he’d like more shots: “Yeah, every player would. Count me in for that.”
Do the Hawks run much for him? “They don’t,” said Horford, who took fewer shots than Flip Murray. “But I understand. I know what it takes: I have to work on my game and make them give me the ball a little more.”
Would Mike Woodson be willing to work Johnson less? “Without a doubt,” the coach said. “Did I wear him down? Sure. But I needed to ride him to get us where we needed to go.”
For this team to reach the next level, Smith and Horford must pull more of the load. They’re 23. (Johnson is 27.) They’re the future.
Williams is not. So long as he’s here, he’ll always be the guy who isn’t Chris Paul, and there should be teams willing to work a sign-and-trade. Bibby should stay because the Hawks went too long without a point guard. And another guard should be the focus of this draft because there won’t be a big man around when the Hawks pick.
But the big transition has to be internal. Johnson cannot be the lone star any longer. For the good of all, he must become one of the gang.
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259 comments Add your comment
Larry
May 12th, 2009
3:50 pm
Mark,
Why can’t he sign for a one year qualyfing deal, if I”m not mistaken he was a RFA? We don’t necessarily have to sign him long term?
diego
May 12th, 2009
3:51 pm
Kwame Brown is a waste of basketball talent. Why would you wish him upon our Hawks? We replaced Childress with 2 quality guys, Evans and Flip. He can stay in Greece and keep making his money.
For the people calling for Woodson’s head, even though he got us into the playoffs last year… home court and a series win this year, how about you look at some of the guys he has to coach, or should I say babysit. We all know about Josh Smith’s lack of maturity and Mr. Lazy Acie Law’s lack of motivation as he slides deeper down the bench.
Instead of Joe cutting back on the floor, he needs to step up and be that true superstar type leader out on the court and in the locker room.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
3:51 pm
Jarrett Jack is a realistic option, I’d say. Adonal Foyle? Jamaal Magliore? Tony Battie? Not so realistic.
J Who?
May 12th, 2009
3:52 pm
Hey Mark, do you think their would be a way to move up in the draft through some kind of Bibby sign and trade or maybe moving Josh Smith in order to get to a position to draft Rubio? I think he will be an ALLSTAR level point guard and would improve the chemistry of the team. Rubio, Johnson, Marvin, Horford, and Free Agent or Zaza. My only other concern would be Woodson’s inability to develop talent or get the most out of his players but I think Rubio’s ability combined with extensive experience would compensate for that since I don’t think it is likely the ASG gets rid of Woodson.
Hawks are closer than you think
May 12th, 2009
3:52 pm
I agree with the guy who wrote that the Hawks need to anticipate where the rebounds are coming off and hustle and fight for them.. . the thing that stood out to me the most about the Cavs is that they are playing with URGENCY and this mantra seems to be in their heads and on their “sleeves”: I’m tougher / quicker /smarter than you … I agree with coaching change, I think that a young assistant with lots to prove from an established team would do wonders in tapping Marvin’s and Josh’s repective “sense of urgency”
J.J.M.
May 12th, 2009
3:52 pm
Josh is not going anywhere. if they wanted Josh gone they would have did a sign and trade for him.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
3:53 pm
Childress can take the one-year deal, Larry. Same as he could have last summer. But I don’t know why he would. He’s got two more years on the Olympiakos deal. That would be more security at a higher salary.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
3:54 pm
Don’t think that’s possible, J Who. The draft comes before negotiations with free agents are allowed to begin.
Hawk Str8Talk
May 12th, 2009
3:54 pm
Rob, you are clearly not watching the games if you believe that Mike Woodson is the answer. I will say this – he served his purpose. He managed a roster through a very tough transition and I will give him credit for that, but as soon as this team turned from ‘hope we make the playoffs’ to ‘want to be a force in the playoffs’ – he became the wrong coach for this team. It’s laughable to use Coach Brown and the Pistons as a feather in his cap b/c the value he brought to that team hasn’t be replicated here. This isn’t a great defensive team and we certainly aren’t emulating the good offense that the ‘04 Pistons displayed.
So, we have to look at the reality. Beating the Heat is no great feat – if you wanted credit for that, you had to sweep that team. The Heat are horrible, essentially the Hawks in ‘04 with D Wade and a gimpy Jermaine O’Neal added on. So, do we reward him for being the captain of the ship while the players were growing up and together or do we get someone in here who can design a gameplan that works for this team. No one who has watched this team can tell me that you’d want Mike Woodson as your coach based on offensive or defensive philosophy, team motivation, player development, leadership, or in-game adjustments. No one. If you can, tell me what he’s specifically what he’s doing or has done that you think is good. I’m open to hear it.
Wink from Lithonia
May 12th, 2009
3:54 pm
It will be an interesting off season, to say the least. I think what is being said regarding Joe is that he is not a franchise player…ie Kobe, Wade, Howard or LeBron! He was a third option with Phoenix that became a first option, on a team that had no options. He is a second tier player, he need more help. He does not outwardly display any leadership skills, that the others can see. He is like Robin with no Batman. He has super skills, but elite players are his krytonite!
We need to acquire a post presence, that can score or protect the paint (Bosh or trade up for Thabeet). We need a beast in the middle. If you notice all the teams remaining in the playoffs have a legimate post presence the exception might be Denver with NeNe, but even he is active around the basket.
We need to acquire a guard who can defend & break down a defense, maybe not a star, but a star in waiting similar to Billups or Devin Harris.
I say we need a coach, but Woodson appears secure, as team has improved each year, which is enough for the Spirit Group. We need the ownership resolved, which may resolve the coach issue.
Barring a coaching change, this team need players with dedicated roles, a supporting cast similar to the Lakers bench; then release the hounds to run, no more half court, Joe pounding the clock, resulting in force jumper from someone who is not your best player in that situation. We need knockdown shooters, with cold blooded intentions like Flip ( a must sign).
P Gills
May 12th, 2009
3:55 pm
Mark, if you trade Marvin, what player would be ideal, and how do we explain the lack of rebounding in the playoffs. I watched Varejeo box Smith out well over half of the plays. I agree Josh is much imporved and good, but he can’t play the 3 so we still have too many PFs.
KC in Smyrna
May 12th, 2009
3:55 pm
Why the strong opinion on Law? I see enough out of him to warrant more PT. Same with Solomon, but Woody doesn’t play either of those guys enough IMO. I think Woody and all head coaches get too caught up in what doesn’t do well. They should focus on the strengths of their players and put them in positions to succeed.
Bernie Matt
May 12th, 2009
3:58 pm
Marvin should take less money and become the best 6th man in the league, or trade him for Channing Frye and Travis Outlaw. Josh Smith goes to the 3 and Al goes to 4. Draft B.J. Mullins who can make the outside shot and run the old Pistons offense where they posted up the 3 and 4 man Dantley or Aguire. Mullins plays the role of Laimbeer. Let Bibby stroll out of town, start Flip at the point. Joe assumes a lesser role at the 2. Develop A.C. as backup to Flip, but draft another point in second round just in case. Then you have second unit of A.C., Mo Evans, Marvin, SoLo, and Zaza.
I think this can be a strong 10 man rotation with the right coach. Woody is not him. If anyone is more responsible for the stagnant growth of Josh Smith, Marvin, and Chill before he left it is Woody. The man can not develop players, he could probably win a championship if he walked into the right situation, but I would never leave him in the same room with a young talent.
I would bet money that if the Hawks had drafted Paul or DWill they would not be the players we know today, because of Woody and Joe.
Joe has gotten a pass by the organization, but it was Joe who cried about playing with a rookie point guard that didn’t give him the ball everytime he asked for it. Imagine where the Celtics would be if K.G., Pierce and Ray Allen (all future Hall of Famers) had reacted that way to Rondo, who had the same knock on him as A.C., he couldn’t shoot.
Shannon
May 12th, 2009
3:58 pm
Rob
How does it feel to be on a island by yourself???? You can’t do anything but improve when you are so stinking bad!!!! It is amazing that we will settle for simply improving each year. The talent is here we just need someone that won’t simply do ” a little better ” and will win a championship. But maybe that’s alright for some but I have been a season ticket holder for several years and have spent thousands of dollars on this product. So I am there so I feel like I can comment on what is going on and improving is not cutting it with me…
Mark
I doubt any player is going to throw his coach under the bus if he has to play for him. But you know that he knows that Woody’s job might be on the line SO HIS PLAY SPEAKS VOLUMES.
HawksFan
May 12th, 2009
3:58 pm
A couple thoughts….
1. Joe Johnson, Acie Law, Marvin Williams, or any other player is NOT the problem with this team. The problem with this is team is it’s coach. Players aren’t put in position to be successful and very few are allowed to show what they really can do. All of them, in the right offensive system with better spacing, better movement, and better actions would be allowed to have greater success. Instead, our offensive movements push us into another defender and it’s not a coincedence how many contested and nonrhythm shots that we put up versus teams we lose.
2. Defensively, it took us 3 freaking games to figure out that we may actually want to play help defense on the best player in the leauge in Lebron. That’s just freaking brilliant and was 3 games too late. Who makes those decisions? Hmmm, Woodson again.
3. This team is built to run the floor. What the heck do the Hawks do to play to their strengths? Once again, scheme and design are conflicting.
Give Doc Rivers this team and the Hawks would not only be immensely better, I think they’d at least give Cleveland a run for their money. Simply playing help defense last night allowed them to stay in the game. If they had any clue about how to run an offense, and didn’t have so many empty posessions with atrocious shots coming an unexpected times due to designed plays being blown up then you’d see a great efficiency in their shot making ability. Instead, you get awful movement, atrocious spacing, and a sheer inability to design and run plays in a manner where a player can actually best utililize his skill set. Our offense is made up about 75% of the team. Only complicated by our inability and lack of commitment to create easy transition offense by deploying various defensive schemes to produce such scenarios. All the more muddied by our jumbled up sets.
4. As this team is put together right now, it’s not a NBA championship team. It’s not going to be without a real superstar. However, even if you put a true superstar on this team, you still can’t get around the fact that we’ve got a subpar coach leading this team whose schemes are JV’ish at best so if you really want to allow this team to move forward, then our owners and GM need to get a clue and go hire an actual good coach who knows how to get it done on both ends of the court. Then go from there with personnel moves, but the coaching move is priority #1.
Not understanding that is just not being realistic about where we’re at as a team. All the talk about different and varying players is only attempting to put a bandaid on a gashing wound.
J.J.M.
May 12th, 2009
4:00 pm
I wonder if woodson even wants acie law
E
May 12th, 2009
4:00 pm
The Hawks will be $20 million under the salary cap, when Mike Bibby and Za-Za’s contracts come off the books. They will probably offer Speedy Claxton a buyout or trade his expiring $5 million contract to a team trying to get under the cap for the 2010 free agency sweepstakes. The Hawks will be in great position to go after restricted and unrestricted free agents. I wouldn’t offer M.Bibby a contract, even at a reduced price. He’s 32 and a liability on defense. I would go after one of the young point guards who will be restricted free agents, like Raymond Felton or Jarrett Jack.
Marvin Williams will be a restricted free agent, I would offer him a contract in about the $ 7-8 million range, it won’t be many teams trying to steal him away this off-season. Lastly, I would go after a young true Center, that can rebound and play defense. Like a Chris Andersen from Denver or a power forward like Paul Millsap from Utah who will be a restricted free agents. I would only keep Za Za at a reduced price as a back up Center..
J Who?
May 12th, 2009
4:01 pm
O.k. maybe, depending on team that drafts him, we could make a deal with whomever drafts him. I’m probably livin’ in a dream world but I would figure out a way to get him regardless of who we had to move.
Rob
May 12th, 2009
4:02 pm
Hawk St8Talk
Where do you get your sources from? You and some people like you don’t like Woodson as the coach. You have your right to your opinion. But don’t tell me that Woodson is not the coach for this team. Anyone is the coach for a team when they can continually make improvements season after season. Show me some sort of digression in his performance from last year, then we can talk. But until then, your reasoning is just that…. Your reasoning. The Hawks need a superstar player. That’s it. Capable players come a “dime a dozen”… Exceptional players come at higher price tag. Remember that.
Larry
May 12th, 2009
4:03 pm
Granted he has more financially security in Greece, however it’s not like the Hawks were outbid by another NBA team. I think Josh Childress left for Greece because of pride, not money.
Hawk Str8Talk
May 12th, 2009
4:06 pm
I thin the point that Rob wants to hear is – why would you get rid of Woodson? I can give chapter and verse on that (and I will), but I want to know why you want him to stay based on the simple – we won more games each and every year argument. Here’s the rebuttal to that – first, if you start at 13 games – you don’t have to do much each season to create more wins. The fact that you’re just growing up together means you’ll win more. And that’s happened. Remember there are a LOT of bad basketball teams out there. On talent alone, the Hawks won about 40 games.
The reason to get rid of Woodson is that the brand of basketball that we are playing and the tactical acumen necessary to move from ok to good and good to elite is large. Coach Woodson hasn’t shown that he knows that he needs to develop his bench, that he can’t play Joe the most minutes in the league and THEN expect him to explode in the post season, that he can’t design an offense that leaves Josh on the perimeter, that he can’t switch on every screen and leave players who aren’t good at one-on-one defense exposed EVERY single play, that his locker room speeches that leave us flat to start the game or after halftime need work…I could go on, but I’ll stop here. My point being – I wanted Coach Woodson to succeed and if we gauge it based on where we are today – he’s been successful, but if we base it on his ability to get us where we need to be or go – he’s not the coach to take us there. I’d love to hear what you think specifically he’s done that we’re not seeing. All I see is that the talent grew up and they won, but not b/c Woody did much to accelerate or aid that process based on his coaching decisions and acumen.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
4:07 pm
Here, from ESPN.com, is the list of impending free agents.
And if you’re asking about a sign-and-trade, there are two guys on Golden State I kind of like: Ronny Turiaf (banger bench type) and Brandan Wright (a little like Marvin, only bigger).
Jones
May 12th, 2009
4:08 pm
To me the big question for the Hawks is the health of these guys. If Marvin is healthy he is a very good player (though not a max-money player). He’s already a very good defender, and his range and back-to-the-basket game is really improving. Acie Law also looked good at the end of the year, in particular shooting from outside, but he just can’t stay healthy. But if you are going to re-sign Bibby then I would keep Acie as a back-up and draft a big man rather than a PG.
Look, it’s hard to talk about this in the abstract. They should absolutely keep Bibby, Marvin, and ZaZa, and sign Childress — AT THE RIGHT PRICE. The question is how much? Marvin probably isn’t worth $10 mill a year like Josh, but no one else is likely to offer that anyway. I would even trade Joe, but only for the right player, and realistically you aren’t going to get a deal that makes it worth it.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
4:09 pm
Anderson Varejao, you’ll note, is indeed a free agent. I like him, too.
Jones
May 12th, 2009
4:11 pm
Oh, come on! Turiaf for Marvin? Turiaf isn’t even a legit NBA starter! And Brandan Wright is not like Marvin at all. He has no outside shot at all, and is too skinny and weak and basically useless in the half court. Wright is basically a skinny, weak version of Josh Smith. *If* Marvin is healthy then that is crazy talk. On the other hand, I am worried about his back….
J Who?
May 12th, 2009
4:11 pm
Even if you are of the delusional belief that Mike Woodson can coach, that point if void because the team does not listen or hear what he’s preachin’. The only half court set we run is JJ dribble, create, kick out, Bibby dribble kick out, Flip, dribble create, kick out. Those kind of sets don’t fly in the NBA. Oh, and let me know when Woodson develops a player to his full potential because when he does it will be his first.
Jones
May 12th, 2009
4:12 pm
Varejao is only a free agent if he opts out. More importantly, he doesn’t fit in the Hawks’ system, unless he is willing to play a back-up role like ZaZa. He’s a half-court player, and the Hawks need to run.
J.J.M.
May 12th, 2009
4:13 pm
wow mark thers alot of nice players out there. this will be a nice 09 off season leading to 2010 off season.
Hawks are closer than you think
May 12th, 2009
4:17 pm
Joe Johnson is the only guy on the Hawks we can trade and get “full money” for, he’s reached his fullest potential and even a little beyond (I respect the guy alot, but in putting my Dimitrof GM hat on, he is the best trade bait for a offensive minded big man that I need) … which team would secretly love to have an all-star 2 guard, and be able to trade us a decent big man in the trade?
Hawk Str8Talk
May 12th, 2009
4:18 pm
Rob, I’ve blogged about the Hawks for a complete season. I have written repeatedly about the fact that I want Coach Woodson to be successful – he’s from my favorite college basketball team and went to school with some of my family members. By no means do I want Coach Woodson or the Hawks to be unsuccessful. Not to inject race as a fire-starter, but I wanted the black GM and black coach combination to work, so this is not about an agenda. It’s only what I and so many see. I’ve only asked you to provide what you think Coach Woodson does well for this team.
I’ve articulated what I think he does poorly. I think our talent took us as far as it could go on its own. It’s my belief that their talent matched with a top tier coach could go further. I don’t absolve the players of their duty to play hard every night despite the coach, but I think the coach has to share in that. You obviously haven’t read or watched these games, post-game conferences, articles, etc. I didn’t give you an emotional response. I’m saying that after 5 years of watching an offense that isn’t built for playoff success, a bench that’s not ready for post season minutes, talent that is overworked before the postseason, and a defensive switching strategy that can’t work with the personnel we have – that Woodson should be fired. There’s no ax to grind here. I also stated that a secondary option (not my preferred, but acceptable nonetheless) is to bring in assistant coaches who can design an offense and defense that works to our strengths. You have still failed to say anything that matters regarding what you think Coach Woodson brings to the table other than the team’s record got better and that’s just not going to cut it. I’d be happy to talk to you about it further – http://www.hawkstr8talk.com. Holla at ya folk
J.J.M.
May 12th, 2009
4:18 pm
I would pick up Trevor Ariza. I dont think the lakers will re sign him if they wanna keep odom
Jones
May 12th, 2009
4:19 pm
Don’t start drooling over those players. The Hawks will have very little cap space if they re-sign Bibby (even if he takes a big paycut). They basically will be 18 or so million under the cap, but that’s without counting anything for Bibby, Williams, ZaZa, Murray, or Childress. Even if you are willing to let someone like Williams go, that doesn’t leave any cap room.
I wonder what people think the Hawks should do in the draft. I like a couple of the PGs like Maynor, but those guys are likely to be gone, and if they are going to re-sign Bibby then they should probably go after front-line help. It looks like DeJuan Blair or BJ Mullins might still be available at 19.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
4:19 pm
Would you take a Turiaf/Wright package for Marvin/Acie? I think I would.
Those two would comes cheaper than Marvin will. And they’d add some size and some bench help. (Woodson was talking today about the need to have a longer bench. Well, here you go.)
Not saying that would ever happen. Just throwing something at the wall, with names attached.
J.J.M.
May 12th, 2009
4:23 pm
what position does wright play?
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
4:24 pm
Here’s NBAdraft.net’s mock draft. Doggone it if Eric Maynor doesn’t move up every time I check.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
4:25 pm
Brandan Wright is a skinny power forward. Also from Carolina.
Rob
May 12th, 2009
4:26 pm
SHANNON… The island I live on is called “reality”. Obiviously, you could take a dose of that.
Hawks St8Talk… Let’s kick the ballistics.
The Hawks were dealing with Horford who was not 100%. So essentially the Hawks were playing without a “dedicated” point forward. Also, Let’s not relegate Woodsons’ accomplishments to mediocrity. No matter how far the Hawks go, the “Holy Grail” which is an NBA championship title is the only goal. There are no other goals. It doesn’t matter if the Hawks were to go on to win the Eastern Conference title. If they don’t win it all, they don’t win. Look at Boston, they might not make it past Orlando. What will people say then? That Rivers is not the coach that can take them further? Of course they will.
And just for kicks and giggles…. Here’s Woodsons’ coaching record… But I guess you’re still stuck on his record from 4 seasons ago…. huh?
Team Year G W L W–L% Finish Result
————————————————————-
ATL 2004–05 82 13 69 .159 5th in Southeast — — — Missed Playoffs
ATL 2005–06 82 26 56 .317 5th in Southeast — — — Missed Playoffs
ATL 2006–07 82 30 52 .366 5th in Southeast — — — Missed Playoffs
ATL 2007–08 82 37 45 .451 3rd in Southeast 7 3 4 Lost in First Round
ATL 2008–09 82 47 35 .580 2nd in Southeast 11 4 7 Lost in Conference Semifinals
Gaylon Nickerson
May 12th, 2009
4:26 pm
The unresolved Atlanta Spirit Group ownership squabble will preclude any “excessive” spending – in other words, Woody will be retained for the final year of his contract and we will not bring in any big dollar free agents – I am in favor of retaining ZaZa for the same amt. he’s making now (unless we can find a Marcin Gortat-like player for the same) ditto for Mario West – Marvin’s athleticism will enable him to draw fouls and take his 80 plus Ft percentage to the line – but he will need to work on some moves-to-the-hoop this summer – I think he’s worth retaining for a price tag around the mid-level exception – unless Bibby is willing to give us a hometown discount, show him the door and we can take our chances with Speedy and our rookie, freshly drafted PG – Acie is playing out of position – he was a Ben Gordon/Delonte West type player in college who we tried to convert to a PG but somewhere along the line he lost his swagger and will have to find it elsewhere – according to reports Speedy is healthy and we are stuck with him for another year so Woody needs to find something to do with him …. like play him – Flip needs to be resigned as soon as possible – Flip gets dealt a lot not because of a lack of ability or desire but because he has mental lapses that result in untimely turnovers
J.J.M.
May 12th, 2009
4:27 pm
If we did make that trade who would be our PG if bibby isnt signed or who would back up bibby? flip?
Hawk Str8Talk
May 12th, 2009
4:28 pm
And so you don’t think this is a pissing contest, Rob, can you tell us what has gotten better as a result of COACH WOODSON, not the fact that we went from 13 to 26 to 30 to 37 to 47. If your players get better and you add better players, then YES – the team will win more. If you were showing us that the exact same team did that and that the players played the same way over 5 years, then I’d say – it’s Coach Woodson, but since that’s absolutely not the case.
If you want some Coach Woodson kudos, here it is – he actually coached those early teams well. They just didn’t have the talent to win, then. So, it’s not always about wins and losses. The Suns were going to win 45 games with Terry Porter, but were not going to be a better team (or even make the playoffs), so they decided to make the change to Alvin Gentry and now, will be giving him a full season to see if he can get them back on track. There was a tangible difference between him and Porter in being able to coach that team. Terry Porter may be a good coach, but not for the Suns. I will say the same for Mike Woodson. He may be a good coach for a veteran team, but not for these Hawks. He’s not the coach for this franchise and I’d be happy to hear any ways that you think he should be. I’ve been reading and watching all season and I’ve YET to hear one person give a good reason other than your ‘they won more games than the last’ reasoning.
Rob
May 12th, 2009
4:32 pm
Hawks St8Talk…
Basically, there’s NOTHING anyone can say to to you to make you vacate your position. I too have watched the entire season of the Hawks thanks to the NBA channel. I too have attended numerous games. But I see this completely different than you. And that’s cool because I’m just as “bull-headed” as you in my point of view of the Hawks and the direction they need.
Rob
May 12th, 2009
4:34 pm
Hawks St8Talk
In fact, I’ve answered a couple of your questions. Instead of going about a diatribe on Woodsons’ performance this season, answer this question for me….. If Woodson took the Hawks to the ECF would you say that he is the coach for the Hawks?
Hawks are closer than you think
May 12th, 2009
4:36 pm
I wonder if we could get a Chris Bosch for Joe Johnson trade done…. if a deal with Toronto isn’t possible, I think that Charlotte would do a deal with us: sending one of their bigs + a better draft position in exchange for Joe Johnson
Big D
May 12th, 2009
4:39 pm
The Hawks have maxed out with this core group. They have too many guys playing out of position and they also have repetition and PG & SF. They need to either trade Marvin or Josh, although you would get more for Josh, get a quality big. Draft a PG, offer Bibby a short term deal and find more experienced role players via FA. Right now the Hawks bench is suspect and their starters are too small to compete against the teams that go big. In order to be a contender vs just a playoff team, tough decision must be made, see Denver Nuggets if you need examples.
braveshater
May 12th, 2009
4:40 pm
Marvin is outta here. He’s a mistake and will never have the feet or coordination to be a dominant player. He falls down everytime he’s drives to the basket. Somebody will take him though, sign and trade for whoever. Let bibby go, resign flip, find a point guard in the draft, and a Samuel Dalenbert type big man. Al moves to his natural position, after a summer of working on his offensive game. Josh moves to his natural spot at the 3, Joe at the 2, now the team is set to win 50 plus games.
Hawk Str8Talk
May 12th, 2009
4:44 pm
Well, I’m not saying that there’s nothing that anyone can say to make me vacate my position. What I’m saying is that you haven’t said anything to validate your position. I have provided you with ample evidence for why I think he’s the wrong coach. Let me repeat – our offense is not tailored to the strengths of the players (a point that almost every commentator, TNT studio guys, fans in the three cities I’ve visited to watch the Hawks mention to laughs and jokes, even Joe said we are a transition team, yet we run a half court offense 90% of the time), our defense is not based on sound fundamentals (no elite team switches on every screen), the team stopped listening to Coach Woodson (which may or may not be his fault, but not listening to your coach can’t be an endorsement for the coach), there are rarely tactical adjustments during the games when plan A isn’t working (and yes, I’ve counted how many times Coach Woodson has changed tactics during a game – this season it was twice vs. Denver on the road and vs. Utah at home).
So, again – don’t put words in my mouth…I’m simply asking you to make your case with some substance. I explained why I didn’t think the ‘we won more games each season’ argument was a good one. You can reject that, but I would think that you’d be able to communicate other reasons why he’s a good coach than – the team won more games. Under that analysis, Doug Collins would have been the coach of the Bulls throughout the Jordan era. They got rid of him b/c MJ and the organization didn’t think he could take them further. I’m saying the same about Mike Woodson. Doesn’t make him a bad guy, just unable to get the best out of the talent available to him.
Jones
May 12th, 2009
4:51 pm
Mark, I don’t like that trade for the Hawks at all. Wright averaged 8 points and 4 boards a game this year. That was only in 17 minutes, but it was also in Nelly’s up-tempo style. He has no strength, no offensive game other than dunks, and no defensive game other than blocking shots as a help defender. Turiaf is a decent role player, but no more, and guys like him are not hard to find as FAs (much like ZaZa).
People are being much too hard on Marvin. When healthy, he is an excellent defender who can get to the free-throw line a lot, and who is developing 3-point range. He’s also getting stronger and filling out a legit NBA body, but is still young. He runs the floor as well as Wright but also can play half-court offense.
He does have two big problems: he needs to stay healthy, and he needs to be more aggressive. But he’s a nice third or fourth scoring option and a very good defender. If they can sign him for around 8 mill a year they should do it no question.
Hawks Fan 33
May 12th, 2009
4:52 pm
Thanks for the column Mark. Here is my $.02. I really see flashes with Marvin; however, I think Marvin defers to Joe, and Josh more often than not. I really think Marvin has a legitimate chance to average 18 and 10. I think two things that seem to be prevailing (maybe not on here, but the “local morning show” is adamant. Trading Josh would be a mistake (unless it is for CB4). Trading Joe would be a mistake. We need two things. AA point guard who can consistently bring the ball up the court, taking the pressure off of Joe to do it all (Jarret Jack….or, how about this one anyone: Raymond Felton?)…and of course a big. They don’t grow on trees, but possibly we can get one via the draft.
My second qualm is with Woodson. We have naturally progressed, but either he needs to give the offensive reigns to someone, or we need a new coach. Given the legal issues with the Spirt Group, lets be realistic: I don’t think that is going to happen. Mike is cheap, and on the surface he has produced results.
That is my little bit. So, keep Marvin, Josh, Joe. Make a move to get either Jarret Jack or Raymond Felton. Try to find a big. Resign Flip, Solo (yes Solo), West (defensive stopper….why wasn’t he used more? oh, Woody trying to save his job. That is why). I think we may not be too far off….
Robert
May 12th, 2009
4:52 pm
Give Joe Johnson some help. Double teams killed him and no one could consistently make the opponent pay. Who on this team can beat their man off the dribble and pressure the D? Who can consistently hit a jump shot? Joe Johnson can’t do it by himself.
O'brien
May 12th, 2009
4:55 pm
Mr. Bradley, the reason why JJ took so many shots, played so many minutes was mostly due to Woody. Woody kept riding him, instead of designing some plays to get others involved. And Woody had very little confidence in his bench. I think Woody has had the biggest effect on Joe’s game.
Another reason why Joe is worn down is because too often he is guarding Bibby’s guy. And Joe is forced to create his own shot and create for others.
Right now, we still dont know what we have in Acie, but he can penetrate. His biggest weakness is his jumper. But lets not forget he was Mr. Clutch in college. However, he never got consistent 12-18 minutes a game, and combined with his injuries, we just dont know how good he can be.
Mr. Bradley, people should also talk about Woody’s lack of an offense. If the Hakws played more uptempo, Josh and Al would get more shots, and Joe wouldnt have to work so hard. Plus Woody has no plays to get Joe an easy shot. Woody is a big part of the problem, not just Joe.