Johnson needs to step back for the Hawks to step forward
Much has to happen. The Hawks need to re-sign Mike Bibby, to work a sign-and-trade with Marvin Williams and to draft a guard, preferably Eric Maynor of VCU, in Round 1. But for this team to climb from pretty good to really good, something more must be done.
The Hawks must wean themselves from their reliance on Joe Johnson.
Almost every bit of the Hawks’ offense since 2005 has run through Johnson, and it’s past time for an adjustment. It’s not that he isn’t a fine player; it’s that this team has two younger players who require room to grow.
Come 2011, Josh Smith and Al Horford should be the Hawks’ best players. (And this assumes Johnson re-ups next summer.) Together, Smith and Horford took 1,443 shots this regular season. By himself, Johnson took 1,420. Save the occasional lob, the team doesn’t run many plays for Smith. It runs almost none for Horford.
Johnson isn’t a ball hog – he led the team in assists, ahead of Bibby – but he’s the focal point. You can be a focal point if you’re LeBron or Kobe or D-Wade, but Johnson isn’t quite. The Hawks would be better served if he played fewer minutes – he led the NBA in those – and took fewer shots.
Would Johnson be amenable? “I would,” he said Tuesday. “But I don’t know if that’s going to be the case. I have a passion and love for the game. Sometimes the coach tries to take me out, and I tell him to leave me in. It’s not that I’m selfish – it’s just my passion for the game.”
Is the goal to stoke Johnson’s fire or to win more games? He was demonstrably fatigued in the postseason and admitted as much. Save for the final three quarters of Game 7 against Miami, he was never the Johnson whom co-owner Michael Gearon Jr. calls “the greatest Hawk since Dominique.”
Sorry, there are no polls available at the moment.Johnson has filled an essential role. More than anyone else, he lifted the Hawks up from squalor. For this team to go further, he needs to work as well with Smith and Horford as he does with Bibby. He needs to become a leader, not just a scorer.
Horford won two NCAA titles with a team famous for sharing the ball. He’s not one to make requests. But here was his reaction when asked if he’d like more shots: “Yeah, every player would. Count me in for that.”
Do the Hawks run much for him? “They don’t,” said Horford, who took fewer shots than Flip Murray. “But I understand. I know what it takes: I have to work on my game and make them give me the ball a little more.”
Would Mike Woodson be willing to work Johnson less? “Without a doubt,” the coach said. “Did I wear him down? Sure. But I needed to ride him to get us where we needed to go.”
For this team to reach the next level, Smith and Horford must pull more of the load. They’re 23. (Johnson is 27.) They’re the future.
Williams is not. So long as he’s here, he’ll always be the guy who isn’t Chris Paul, and there should be teams willing to work a sign-and-trade. Bibby should stay because the Hawks went too long without a point guard. And another guard should be the focus of this draft because there won’t be a big man around when the Hawks pick.
But the big transition has to be internal. Johnson cannot be the lone star any longer. For the good of all, he must become one of the gang.
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259 comments Add your comment
Gerald Williams
May 12th, 2009
3:13 pm
Marvin Williams is arguably our second (or third) best player. I can’t see just throwing out a #2 draft pick with the bathwater. Sounds dumb to me, Bradley.
Dave
May 12th, 2009
3:13 pm
MEGADEAL Williams, Josh, Law, Zaza for Chris Bosh, who wants out of Toronto and Toronto’s #1. Use their #1 to get Thabeet and our #1 to get a combo shooting point guard. Move Joe to the three spot and resign Bibby. Thabeet, Horford, Bosh, and Jones rotate at 4 and 5. Evans, Murray, Bibby and rookie rotate at 1 and 2. Finally Joe and Bosh rotate at 3. If you don’t want to resign Bibby or you really want a championship contender go after Ben Gordon as a free agent! Starting line up: Bosh, Horford, Johnson, Gordon, and Bibby with a nice bench with plenty of height for defensive matchups. Tons of firepower and good passers who all crave a championship! May even swap first round picks with Toronto to do the deal!
freshd
May 12th, 2009
3:14 pm
You can let the big man come off the bench, or let MARVIN be the 6th man if he is not traded. As WOODROW would say, “it”s all about the matchup in this league MAN”.
J.J.M.
May 12th, 2009
3:16 pm
Dave did you think about money getting all these players???
Astro Joe
May 12th, 2009
3:18 pm
I doubt that any of the teams with the elite superstars had 6 players averaging double-figures like the Hawks. In other words, the Hawks are an ensemble cast (think Law & Order) as opposed to a star vehicle (24). So when too many members of that ensemble are injured or don’t show up, guess what, the team loses and the few healthy ensemble members come off looking like they can’t carry the entire load.
Hollywould
May 12th, 2009
3:19 pm
Stick a fork in them. These guys play the dumbest of any team I have ever seen. May be the coaching or maybe just don’t know how to play.
It is not the playground. They were outhustled in every game. None of them can play man defense. None of them can help each other. They have their millions and play like it. Horford needs to gain 40 lbs to bang around all year long. Bibby can’t guard my gmaw in her wheelchair. Zilgakis9or whatever his name) must have beat jj to 5 loose balls himself. They stand around waiting for a rebound to come to them
while the Cavs sense where the ball might be bouncing to and go get it.
Sickening
Larry
May 12th, 2009
3:19 pm
JJM,
Bibby is 32, no one is going to get in a bidding war over him.
Flip will be easy to sign, he made 1.5 on a one year deal, he is deserving of a raise.
The Hornets basically gave Chandler away for a ham sandwich to Ok. City, and only was veteoed because of concerns of his injury.
Why isn’t any of this possible? What’s preventing it, do you really understand the NBA or just watch basketball. There is a difference you know?
JASon
May 12th, 2009
3:19 pm
Joe is a great player who gets a lot of negative press because he often wavers in the big games. Mike Bibby, on the other hand, thrives on the big games. I agree that we maybe need to re-evaluate how we structure the offense, but a 7 foot shot blocker would be a bigger priority for me than a guard.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
3:19 pm
Kwame Brown isn’t the answer.
Just for fun, let’s name five true (and effective) NBA centers. Ready? OK, Shaq. And Dwight Howard. And Yao. I count Duncan as a center, even though he’s listed as a forward. So that’s four. Who else? Is Pau Gasol a center? Is Chris Bosh? Is LaMarcus Aldridge? Is Zach Randolph? Would you rather have Andrew Bogut playing center than Horford?
Hawks are closer than you think
May 12th, 2009
3:20 pm
If we trade Joe Johnson for a big man and get Al (4 man) – Marvin (3 man) Josh (3 man, both are 3’s but they seem to alternate injuries so it works fine) – Bibby (1-2) zinging the rock around I think the Hawks will go deeper into the playoffs next year. So here is my question to the guys who know: what big man could the Hawks the get if we trade Joe (who is a great great player, but we have 3 guys that do almost the same thing) ??? and I agree with drafting a young point guard
kj
May 12th, 2009
3:22 pm
Mark Bradley what are you smoking. Keep Bibby. He is slow, can’t play defense, and he is getting old.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
3:22 pm
Marvin Williams isn’t the Hawks’ second-best player. He’s not even fourth-best.
BoricuaHawkFan
May 12th, 2009
3:23 pm
Thanks Mark. Good information. I do look forward for the day that JSmith and Horford blow it up. They certainly have the potential. I do wonder (OFTEN) what life would be without Woody. He’s had a good run when they didn’t have anywhere to go but up. I think he exceeded most of our expectations with a 47-win season. I’m certain they could’ve gone over 50 with the last second losses (Cavs, Boston) and THREE early loses to the Nets that should’ve never happened. I feel it’s a great time to part ways, the team gets a fresh perspective for the talent we have and he goes with a much improved resume. It’s a win-win. I hate the fact he never gave Acie a fair shot. He showed a slight chance of belonging to the league at the beginning of his first season and Woody has made him ride the bench without much chance to improve with experience.
shannon
May 12th, 2009
3:23 pm
i like the Josh Smith for Chris Bosh Trade…
RickNole
May 12th, 2009
3:24 pm
Sign and trade Marvin, bring back J-Chills, find someone similar to a big man to clog the middle, re-sign Bibby, and Flip. We would be in the ECF.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
3:25 pm
I’m not going to pretend Bibby is my ideal point guard. (He doesn’t penetrate and doesn’t defend.) But after so many years of looking for someone just play the position, are the Hawks going to let this one walk away? Especially when he works so well with Joe Johnson?
And don’t say, “Well, Acie Law could take over.” He couldn’t. Not for this coach, and maybe not for any coach.
diego
May 12th, 2009
3:26 pm
The Hawks offseason needs to have: Josh Smith spending 8+ hours in a hot as hell gym working on his medium to outside shot. The doors should be locked until he makes 1,000. This’ll give him a good outside/inside; inside/outside game to go with his stellar defensive skills. Plus it’ll also… hopefully… make him grow up and learn some discipline. It was embarrassing, as a Hawks’ fan, watching him b$tch and moan about every call or non-call.
I completely agree with Marvin Williams being traded. What a 2nd pick bust! Wasn’t happy when they picked him years ago and now I’m really upset. Just look out the Hawks’ season/playoff record when he didn’t play. Hopefully we can get a pick or a veteran for him.
For the draft, I think we need to get a solid big man rather than a point guard. Horford would be better at the 4. Josh could raise hell as a 3. We need a big man who can bang and defend. He doesn’t have to be too offensive minded. We have enough weapons on the floor. This will also move ZaZa to his better position of coming off the bench at either 4 or 5. I wish Law would have been something solid but he’s turning into a bust if not there already, but I think we could sign or trade for some up and coming PG to back up Bibby. Call Portland, they have a few international PGs that can play but are sitting on the bench.
Hawks need to feel embarrassed about getting swept bad by the Cavs and losing big to the Heat when they did lose. They can’t play like that, especially in the playoffs. The Cavs and D-Wade have swagger, but they also have confidence in themselves. We need that. Like we’re better than the other team… and actually be better than the other team.
Hawk Str8Talk
May 12th, 2009
3:26 pm
Mark,
I won’t say that I think Marvin is the answer, but as presently constituted – none of this works unless you fire Coach Woodson. there’s nothing in Coach Woodson’s philosophy to date that shows a willingness to play through the post. The fact that he admitted this season to playing Joe more minutes, so he would get into the All Star game is all we need to know about his loyalties.
So, I agree that if we can get something for Marvin (I was an advocate of making a super sub (a la Jason Terry or Manu Ginobili) and letting Evans start all season), re-sign Bibby with the ONLY purpose being a mentor to a drafted point guard (though again, you’d have to convince me that Coach Woodson is going to play the point guard – Law may have no future here, but it’s only b/c they have ruined him for this franchise, not b/c he doesn’t have talent that could have been developed). Under those conditions, your premise works to great effect. The problem is I seriously question whether our organization has the gonads to actually do the most important part of that, which is to force Coach Woodson to accept those changes and some assistant coaches who would design an offense and defense around your young forwards’ talents. Of course, that’s something I’d accept as a secondary option to just firing him altogether.
If we did that, I reject the trading of Marvin Williams just yet – I think a good coach can produce a team out of this bunch that could challenge every team (save Cleveland) in the East.
J.J.M.
May 12th, 2009
3:29 pm
Larry flip will get a big deal not a 2 year deal. bibby wants at least 3 or 4 to finish his career off. marvin for chandler sureee. yes i watch basketball but i also think like a GM. I think about the future also…meaning thinking about having plenty of money to keep my future players such as Horford and joe and maybe marvin williams but i would trade him now for more money and extra role players…Trading marvin to the bobcats for D.J Augustine or Raymond Felton and a draft pick is what i would do…most hawks fans are trying to fill the rosters with all these great players and not thiking about how much each player contract will be and not having money to re sign our future players.
steve
May 12th, 2009
3:29 pm
I agree wholeheartedly except I would keep Marvin. I think if healthy he can be an 18ppg – 9rpg kind of guy – not Chris Paul, but not bad either.
Dave
May 12th, 2009
3:30 pm
J.J.M. actually, one of the owners was talking about how solid they were financially the other day. If you got these guys you also deduct big payrolls with Williams and Josh and maybe the swap of first round picks makes sense economically as paying two first rounders plus Gordon would be too much! The other factor would be sellouts every game and very increased season ticket sales and marketing deals! With this line up the Cavaliers and the Magic would be the only other contenders until Lebron jumps ship for NY or New Jersey in 2010. Boston is just about done! The other option is not to resign Bibby and go with a younger and lower priced alternative!
Will The Thrill
May 12th, 2009
3:31 pm
Why trade Joe Johnson? Are you people crazy or are you just caught up in the “winning hype”? Its okay to expect our team to win but you have to understand that our team isn’t ready player wise. Bradley has a point. Joe shoots most of the shots but who does he have that’s consistent enough to take up the number two load. I bet if Josh Smith, Horford, and Evans were consistent at the mid-range Joe Johnson could lead the NBA in assists. He’s just worn-out guys from heavy minutes during the season. The man is human. Lebron, Kobe, and D-Wade have excellent supporting casts. We need a Center and J-Chills, our energy man off the bench..
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
3:32 pm
Can’t see the Bobcats parting with Augustin. And Felton is just so-so. (I thought he’d be better, but I was wrong.)
freshd
May 12th, 2009
3:34 pm
ANDREW BOGUT, are you kidding me? The guy has a stress fracture in his lower back. Check Marc Gasol”s stats, and there are no injuries. He played overseas before coming to the NBA. and is the same age as BOGUT the BUST.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
3:34 pm
And we should, at this point, take a reality check: The Hawks were the No. 4 seed. They beat the No. 5 seed. They lost to the No. 1 seed. As nice as it would have been for them to do more, they wound up going precisely as far as their record suggested they should go.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
3:35 pm
Consensus among Hawks insiders is that they really didn’t miss Childress during the regular season — but they did in the playoffs.
Ron
May 12th, 2009
3:36 pm
I was frustrated that so many times when Joe would pass the ball, the other Hawks made no attempt to get it back to him..I would much rather have Joe taking the shots in the fourth quarter than Flip Murray,,,how many off-balance, low percentage shots did Flip Murray take when the game was close,,,,Hawks need another scoring threat so the other teams can’t double and triple Joe at playoff time..
Shannon
May 12th, 2009
3:37 pm
Fire Woodson and get a coach in here that can COACH UP these guys. Mark I have always loved your work but you are way off on thinking we should keep Woodson. All he does is pout on the sidelines to the refs and is blaming the players instead of himself. Why do you think Joe Johnson is playing so bad. He wants Woodson to go. I am at every game so I feel like I am qualified to feel this way!!!!!! I didn’t become a fan just recently!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
3:38 pm
We can say this with no fear of contradiction: Flip isn’t ever going to lead the league in assists.
J.J.M.
May 12th, 2009
3:38 pm
Dave are you sure? last time i checked owners of the teams were always in court over money or something like that
Rob
May 12th, 2009
3:38 pm
I think for the Hawks to go further, first you sorry fans need to stop booing as soon as they don’t do well. I mean I could not believe I heard boos for Josh Smith because of a couple of bad 3’s. Really? Really? I mean, Really? And to speak of the practical, let’s throw out the talk about getting a center or weening themselves of too much Johnson. How about for once since the Wilkins era, that the Hawks actually try to find a superstar or draft a college player with superstar ability and cultivate him? The last time any NBA team won a championship WITHOUT a superstar was the 1979 Seattle Supersonics. The Pistons and Spurs are the only exception since then.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
3:39 pm
I don’t think Joe wants Woodson gone. I’ve never once gotten that impression.
J.J.M.
May 12th, 2009
3:39 pm
I still like solo hes our best shooting big. only if the coaching staff spend more time with him he would be nice off the bench
dap01
May 12th, 2009
3:41 pm
We could trade everyone but if we have Woody, we will still have the stagnant offense, the same lack of adjustments and the same iso, pound, pound, shoot a three offense.
We need changes starting with the coach.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
3:42 pm
Rob makes the key point. The easiest way to win a title is to luck into a superstar (or two). Otherwise it gets tough. But the Pistons did it in 2004, with the Billups-Rip-Tayshaun-Rasheed-Ben Wallace starting five. And Woodson was part of Larry Brown’s staff.
Dan
May 12th, 2009
3:42 pm
Mark,
You missed my point on Kwame Brown. He could have come off the bench and helped. He had a decent year with Detroit. He would have been usful here.
Don’t fall into the crowd that thinks the guy is useless just because he was the #1 pick. The Hawks would not need him to be a #1 pick player. They would just need him to knock heads and hold down the fort while the stater(s) rested. He could get that done. He would have to get that done, however, on the cheap. If not, screw him…
Shaq is on the way out. So, like I said, three dominate centers. Bosh is not a center. Alridge is not a center, but he is good (just not a banger). Hard to find a great center. So, don’t hold your nose up to the Kwame Brown types. There is a use for them in the league.
Guy I think would fit here is Fransisco Ellison. I have never understood why the Hawks have not gone after him. He is big, physical and can run.
Rob
May 12th, 2009
3:42 pm
SHANNON
Are you serious. I think you need to look at Woodsons’ record again. Since he has coached the Hawks, his record has improved by VERY noticeable margins EACH season. No other coach since Fratello has done this well. Be satisfied that he isn’t coaching against you with your division rivals Miami Heat.
Larry
May 12th, 2009
3:43 pm
JJM,
If you think Flip will get more than a two year deal ANYWHERE, I will concede the fact you are a basketball guru.
Hawks had a successfull season and the mere fact we are debating this on Mark’s blog is a testament of a great season.
Finally Hawks fans believing we can be better, now we just disagree on how to become better. Talk about progress from 2 years ago.
I still think the style of play is the Hawks primary problem. We play to slow, we are in bottom half of offensive pace for a team that excels in the open court. Woody is the problem.
Dan
May 12th, 2009
3:44 pm
I would love to see Childress back here. I hope the Spirit Group will make that happen.
P Gills
May 12th, 2009
3:44 pm
I think that you give Woodson 1 more year, but he really isn’t a coach that can take the hawks past round 2 in the playoffs. I don’t think you can trade JJ unless you can get a great player for him. Trading marvin doesn’t make too much sense, Marvin looked good in the regular season, and who will play three, we would still have the issue at PF with smith and horford. I think you keep JJ and Marvin, trade smith, and draft Mcmullens at center. What about signing artest of andre miller?
JT
May 12th, 2009
3:45 pm
This team won’t transform, in MY opnion, until they get rid of Woodson. You can’t win with his style of play. They play pretty good defense(good would be better) and they have no identity on offense. They can’t play half court(and no, giving it to JJ and isolating is NOT half court offense). And they don’t need to trade anyone but one of those clones they have, all those players the same size, plays the same position. Keep Bibby and draft a big man or point, so the rookie guard can learn something. Nothing against Woodson and i’d never advocate anyone losing their job but…….
Hawk Str8Talk
May 12th, 2009
3:45 pm
Here’s what you don’t want to see this offseason – Josh Smith working on jump shots or Al Horford working on jump shots, which are the things they said they wanted to work on this offseason. You need both of them to say – we’re going to work on our low post game, which would allow them to play through the post and by extension provide them with better positioning for rebounding.
And for the record, I agree that Acie Law IV is ruined as a point guard here, but I don’t agree that it’s due to his talent. I think it’s due to never been given a role, never being given consistent minutes, and being lied to by Coach Woodson about his importance to the team. I have seen no lack of effort or ability on the part of Acie Law other than the fact that he isn’t a shooter like Bibby. He is a better defender and better penetrator, so it stands to reason that it’s Coach Woodson who isn’t utilizing him for some reason. What that reason is would be great for the fans to know? I think it’s a glaring weakness of Coach Woodson’s that no player has gotten better as a result of playing for Mike Woodson. Basically, all the players are who they have always been under his tutelage.
cp
May 12th, 2009
3:45 pm
Mike Woodson is a joke. He admitted he ran his best player in the ground so he could make an all star game then ran him in the ground trying to secure the 4th seed. If he wanted other guys more involved in the offense why didn’t he just run plays for them? This cat still cant make adjustments, still makes silly substitutions, and still cant develop some of the young talent we have…What is our offensive system? Its time for a new coach…. I like Marvin but its plainly clear that he will never be what many thought he would be. He just is not aggressive enough. He is happy with being the fourth option on a team.. I’m all for a sign and trade of Marvin… Moving Horford to the pf spot makes no difference to me other than defensively. I like the kid but he has no offensive game. When he was playing the pf position when Josh was out he pretty much put the the same numbers he was putting up from the center position. He really needs to work on his post game this off season. I’m kind of split on Bibby. On one hand I like him because of his ability to hit shots but his defense is so terrible and I know he wants a long term deal where as I would only offer him a short team deal… I see Law being moved too but only if Woodpecker is back… He is not going to give the kid a shot so if he is back Law will probably be moved.
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
3:47 pm
I would never trade Josh Smith. No way.
And the ball, as we say, is really in Childress’ court. He can walk away from Olympiakos. That’s the way the contract was done. But he’d have to come back to the Hawks, who’d either have to re-sign him or work a sign-and-trade.
J.J.M.
May 12th, 2009
3:48 pm
Larry oh i still love my hawks no matter what. I have never said anything negative about them on here. I even went to two playoff games against the heat to support, but after the hawks lost game 4 i was watching barkley and the tnt crew they said flip will get a big deal somewhere
KC in Smyrna
May 12th, 2009
3:48 pm
I am hoping Childress gets homesick and returns to he states next year. We missed his perimeter defense and baseline rebounding in both series. He also gives us another long defender to play against Lebron/Wade/Pierce/etc. He can’t stop them, but he was a good piece. I want him back after he is done stealing money in Greece.
BTW. The US Dollar has bounced back so he’s not going net as much $$$ as he originally thought.
My Plan:
- Resign Bibby for 2-3 years (he will not sign for less)
- Or go heavy after Jarrett Jack. He plays defense, drives to the hole, and has all around game although not quite the shooter that Bibby is.
- We need one of those old Centers to come off the bench. Sign one of Tony Battie, Maglore, Adonal Foyle, etc. Some large big man to provide some resistance off the bench.
- We really need some toughness. Someone should have put Lebron on the court after some of those drives. If you can’t guard him, hit him hard enough to make him shot jump shots. Can’t believe how soft we were.
Rob
May 12th, 2009
3:49 pm
Everyone is saying get rid of Woodson. I want someone to point out to me why a team should get rid of a coach after that coach improves his team each and EVERY season he’s been here.
J.J.M.
May 12th, 2009
3:49 pm
KC in Smyrna i forgot about jack
Mark Bradley
May 12th, 2009
3:49 pm
I’ll have to disagree. Josh Smith is hugely improved. Is he as good yet as he can be? No. But he’s way better than he was in 2004.
Rob
May 12th, 2009
3:50 pm
In fact, this is the first time the Hawks have been out of the 1st round in 10 years. Right?