GOP’s reform report arrives at a debate already well under way

Thank you GOP/tea party, Mitt Romney and Karl Rove for spending over a billion dollars and making President Obama a 2 term President of the USA. Without your help he could not have won a 2nd term. Thank you.

President Obama will be remembered for exposing hatred, fear and bigotry in the USA. Never before has any elected President of the USA been subjected to questions concerning his place of birth. Never before has any elected President of the USA been harrassed by the homegrown terrorist group(s) known as the “tea party” (klansmen, skinheads, militia’s, birther’s, etc.). Never before has the GOP lead House of Representitives voted “NO” on every Bill proposed by the Democrats. Never before have the American People been held as “hostages” if the GOP/tea party terrorist/extremist does not get their way. Never before have the American People been subjected to acts of homegrown terrorism.

The GOP/tea party is dead. Thank you God.

The American People
(elderly, young people, women, minorities, gays & lesbians, Christains, Muslims & Jews, etc.)

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Kyle, this is the Rand Paul who won the straw poll.

http://theweek.com/article/index/203270/rand-pauls-5-most-controversial-beliefs

Do you still say “nonsense, utter and complete nonsense”

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“But the good news, if you want to see Republicans elected, is that some of the party’s But the good news, if you want to see Republicans elected, is that some of the party’s brightest emerging stars are already staking out ground that moves in the direction of change.are already staking out ground that moves in the direction of change.”

Of course the bad news is that these so called “brightest emerging stars” are Cruz, Rubio and Paul. Or as McCain calls the “wacko birds,” of the Republican Party.

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The liberal media would have us believe this is the end of the Republican Party because they didn’t defeat an incumbent Democrat. They dismiss that Obama made history by winning re-election with fewer votes than he won for his first term.

No doubt pandering to large voting segments works, and the Republicans are going to have to play that way too, but they can never promise as much as Democrats. They will hold the House in 2014 and 2016 will be a competitive open Presidential election without an incumbent when Democrats will be vilifying each other in the primaries just like Republicans.

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Ahhhh, the demonization of any potential GOP nominee begins at 11:30 with Indigo’s post.

Expect this from nearly every liberal poster for the next 3+ years. It will just be the targets that will shift.

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“Your guy has earned every bit of disdain he’s gotten.”

As the two term President of America…

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“The main problem with the GOP is they are convinced you can get everything with out taxes to pay for it.”

Lie.

You are not informed enough or unbiased enough to state the GOP’s beliefs, Jefferson.

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Yep and they got hillary and hairplugs for duh future.

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When the party has to tell itself that the only way to continue is to change everything about it …

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“The Republican Party needs to stop talking to itself. We have become expert in how to provide ideological reinforcement to like-minded people, but devastatingly we have lost the ability to be persuasive with, or welcoming to, those who do not agree with us on every issue.”

-The economy is improving.
-most 401ks have recovered and then some.
-We’re on the road to energy independence.
-We’re out of Iraq and nearly out of Afghanistan (both no win situations, but like Colin Powell said “you break it, you own it”)
-Healthcare for most without having to resort to the ER.
-Everybody is treated equally, including gays.

Keep talking to yourselves and Hillary will be your next president.

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Maybe TBan could enlighten all of us just who you ar refering to when you state the “demonization of any potential GOP nominee”. who are these potential nominee?? A Mr. Vitter from Lousiania, or little Jeb Bush, or Sara Palin or Marc Rubio or Michelle Bachman and on and on.. Hey, these folks don’t need to be demonized, just alow them to speak for 5 minutes… we all get the picture. Sorry TBan, these foks do it to themselves with a little help from the Tea People ideologues… Yeah thats the ticket, try and out crazy the other competators, thats the sure way the GOP can win elections now isn’t it??

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@Tiberius…”He’s failed to accomplish anything EXCEPT get elected.”

Translation….I like most on the Right don’t like what he has accomplished…to wit

-Passed Health Care Reform
-Averted Bush Depression
-Passed Wall Street Reform i.e Dodd-Frank & Consumer Financial Protection Bureau
-Ended the War in Iraq: Ordered all U.S. military forces out of the country. Last troops left on December 18, 2011.
-Began Draw-down of Afghanistan Troops
-Eliminated Osama bin laden
-Turned Around U.S. Auto Industry
-Repealed “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”
-Toppled Moammar Gaddafi

I could go on but that is probably enough to make to red-faced and sputtering…got you watch your blood pressure you know.

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@Tiberius…”Ahhhh, the demonization of any potential GOP nominee begins”

As for this bit of drivel…they don’t need any help. Most of the current crop is downright scary enough on their own…all you have to do is post what they say.

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Well, with three million evangelistic voters sitting out the last election because Romney was too moderate, you have to thread a fine needle, to get them back and reach out and welcome others. Jumping in bed with same sex marriage and drug legalization is not going to be appealing to about 20% of the base. Seems they are going to lose one from the base for everyone they attract. I’m with Rand Paul that we need to be consistent with freedom for all, social and economic, but it doesn’t play well in Brunswick

I’m with Centrist, it is very difficult to beat an incumbent, especially one who was never vetted, and who has an echo chamber of government supported press behind him. The panic to change may be hasty and another overreach. Did the Dems panic when they lost three Presidential elections in a row, 80,84, and 88? I feel that after 4 more years of the Mistake, Americans will be running to the polls to pull the lever for anyone other than a Dem. Especially, if the economy does not improve and the debt increases enough for another ratings decline by Moody’s and others, we will see change.

America rarely elects the same party after two terms of a below average President.

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“-Passed Health Care Reform”

Which doesn’t do virtually anything he claimed it would do, and will be responsible for the largest tax increase on the middle class when it kicks in in 2014. Sure you consider that an accomplishments? Never mind. Your bar is set so low for this guy, you would,

“-Averted Bush Depression”

No proof one was coming, and most fixes were passed before he took office.

“-Passed Wall Street Reform i.e Dodd-Frank & Consumer Financial Protection Bureau”

Neither of which has performed to any degree. But as we all know, it’s the GOP’s fault for that, right?

“-Ended the War in Iraq: Ordered all U.S. military forces out of the country. Last troops left on December 18, 2011.”

On Bush’s timetable. Of course, another President Incompetent accomplishment – doing nothing.

“-Began Draw-down of Afghanistan Troops”

Again on Bush’s timetable. More doing nothing.

“-Eliminated Osama bin laden”

Already debunked. Continuation of Bush’s orders, and no evidence exists that he changed or augmented any policy to allow that to happen. He gave an order 99 out of 100 Americans would have done – except maybe you, JDW.

“-Turned Around U.S. Auto Industry”

While shafting taxpayers and investors at the expense of the unions.

“-Repealed “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”

Wow. One accomplishment.

“-Toppled Moammar Gaddafi”

And of course the Libyan people had nothing to do with that.

Yeah, you could go on an on with your usual pack of lies, JDW, but why bother?

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What’s the point in electing Repbulicans if they abandon some of their most worthwhile principles in order to accomplish their power grab?

Once they get in power they will just revert back to old school ideas/methods. They will screw over the majority of Americans again and Americans will vote them out again. At which time, after losing several elections, the Cons will start hustling us again to get votes. It’s a vicious circle and we’re the ones paying for it.

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On Bush’s timetable. Of course, another President Incompetent accomplishment – doing nothing.

let’s see, who is the actor here – the one who writes down the date of the plug pull or the one who actually pulls the plug. this is why some cons wouldn’t know “work” if it slapped them in the face.

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“We want you to like us and vote for us. Neverind that we really don’t have your best interests at heart.”

The same can be said for Democrats, and we can add the following:

“We want you to like us and vote for us. Never mind that we really don’t give a cr@p about your individual rights.”

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“let’s see, who is the actor here – the one who writes down the date of the plug pull or the one who actually pulls the plug.”

The one who brings about the actual accomplishment, Finn. In this case, since President Incompetent did nothing but follow the agreements made by his predecessor, the accomplishment was Bush’s.

“this is why some cons wouldn’t know “work” if it slapped them in the face.”

“Work” is actually doing something, Finn, not waiting for something to happen.

Now you’ve learned something new today.

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Never mind that we really don’t give a cr@p about your individual rights.

Yeah, nothing says “individual rights” like “All your uteri are belong to us.”

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Guess Kyle’s not around to comment, but I’ll check back later–really interested to see if he even remembers anything about Rubio’s nasty comments about “freeloaders” and the CPAC crowd’s reception or lack thereof.

/drive-by

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Don’t change a thing cons.

Keep insulting the American voters.

Stay the course.

Thank you.

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@Tiberious…12:21

As I said before…translation…I don’t like anything that he has done…so I will now whine.

WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

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“Keep insulting the American voters.”

I think it’s perfectly appropriate to insult voters who elect such incompetent representatives – in BOTH parties.

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I see JDW has moved from his usual lying in his posts to simply insulting the poster.

Expected.

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I’ve said it 500 times and I’ll say it 500 more – THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT HAS TO GO OR THE GOP IS DONE.

The party talks about change and yet they banned the gay republican outfit from this event.
“No gays because the Bible says it’s a sin.” Yeah well guess what? It does not matter what the Bible says about gays or anything else. The Constitution is the law of the land, not the Bible.

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I normally do not spend any time commenting on political threads because no one’s changing their minds. But I do have to say this:

The GOP needs not only to change the tone, but the message itself. At least this is what many Independents want. See, what I’m looking for is a leader that may have Centrist views and can pull people together to get stuff done. You can be socially conservative. You can be fiscally conservative. But you must be ready to compromise. You must be ready to get something done.

What I keep hearing from the GOP is that they need to abandon the social side of their conservatism and only go after the fiscal stuff. And we will not yield. That’s stupid politics. What I would like to see are people from different points of view: Conservative, Moderate, Liberal- to air out their differences and gain agreements in order to affect policy. This shouldn’t be a war, but arguments.

Crazy, but if i was a Republican, I would be wearing a Christie 2016 button, because I think that he’s the Republicans’ only hope to win the White House. Just my opinion in 2013. It may change, but I don’t see anyone coming out of the Republican field that screams “Compromise to win.”

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The solution is simple.

Join the majority to reform congress.

It is not brain surgery.

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“More background checks?” Palin said. “Dandy idea, Mr. President. Shoulda started with yours.”

Best line of the year!!, She should have trotted that one out in 2008, instead of letting McCain intimidate her, from tying to expose Barry. McCain is living proof that being “nice” is only good for second place, at best.

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Breck

Conservative w/o the religious = Ron Paul for President

Remind me about how many states he won? What was the largest percentage of the vote he got anywhere? Splitting a minority party makes zero sense.

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“More background checks?” Palin said. “Dandy idea, Mr. President. Shoulda started with yours.”

In other words, if we don’t like you, we will continue digging until we find something that sets you in a bad light.

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“I have not insulted you…yet”

Back to the lies, I see, JDW.

Expected.

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“In other words, if we don’t like you, we will continue digging until we find something that sets you in a bad light.”

Such as highlighting Romney putting his dog on the car roof, claiming he was responsible for killing someone, and calling him a felon.

But it’s sure a good thing the Democrats don’t do that kind of thing, right, Finn?

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Forget the pizza, old hippy. This is great stuff!

I’m just gonna make some popcorn and read through the fervent denials…

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“Paul Ryan wants to balance the budget by trashing Medicare and protecting in the wealthy. He is a poster boy for the exact thought process on budget, immigration and women’s health that have led to multiple Republican defeats”

So you’re not sold on Paul Ryan? I’m not either, but for entirely different reasons. He’s not a real fiscal conservative. While Ron Paul and Jeff Flake were voting against deficit budgets for 7 straight years Ryan was toeing the party line. Yea, yea, yea, 2001-2007. He’s a partisan hack and a pretender.

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The only problem with picking a social conservative candidate is picking one which will try to use the government to enforce his / her views. If there is one out there that will pledge to keep their personal views out of the realm of law, and have done so through their legislative actions, they might stand a chance.

Not that the liberals won’t lie about him / her anyway . . .

The problem is that the current crop of social conservatives can’t make that claim or pledge.

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@Rafe…”All the rest of the things you find “scary” are just a conservative idea of how to fix things.”

Most of which make Goldwater look Moderate…point is that it is EXACTLY those “conservative ideas” that are playing so “well” at the ballot box.

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And back to the expected insults by JDW.

Entirely predictable.

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“[S]uch generalizations only feed the idea that conservative activists are hostile to the kinds of reforms the RNC report urges.”

I think the generalizations reflect what is actual.

I don’t see GOP leaders doing more than giving lip service to immigration reform. Other than a few contrarians, they could do quite well without gay folks, thank you. They really, really don’t know what to do with poor folks like retirees and close to retirees that thought they had a deal. The best they can do for them is promote vouchers and block grants. Unions? Can’t have them, they gum up the works for corporations with all their crazy talk about a living wage, medical benefits and horrors, pensions! Sick people? Obamacare? More crazy talk, just let insurance companies sell across state lines! Competition, that’s the ticket.

“[The GOP] has to change the way it approaches the electorate in some key ways….” Yeah, it needs to disavow most of what it’s stood for the last couple of decades.

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point is that it is EXACTLY those “conservative ideas” that are playing so “well” at the ballot box.

Well, we just lost an election, big deal, happens to both parties. I believe those ideas played fairly well in 2010, which is not ancient history.

I might be worried if those ideas had been voted on, but what was voted on was McCain and Romney, neither of which think like a conservative and have extreme difficulty in expressing those ideas, since they were only moderately acquainted with them themselves. Put an eloquent conservative, that believes in those ideas, on the stump and lets see how they play.

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“Marco Rubio wants some unspecified type of immigration reform”

Yeah, ’cause he’s only had a proposal out there for over a year . . .

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“Kyle, you state that the repubs were open to changes, so why was the attendance limited to the more right members”

Because CPAC isn’t the Republican Party. Just one of a few conservative wings within it.

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claiming [Romney] was responsible for killing someone

Ok, Tiberius, I will ask.

Whatever are you talking about?

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Actions speak louder than words.

Like VP Biden said when he destroyed ryan.

Prove you will help the middle class or zip it.

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There is no perfect party and never will be, so it comes down to which ideology one most associates with. I by no means care for the religious right telling me what I can and can’t do with my personal property, but I care even less for the liberal left telling me I have to be responsible for the many millions that make bad choices on a daily basis.

People should be able to do as they please until it harms others, which I believe is a tenet of the left, yet when they choose to drop out of school or remain in a job for eternity and expect raises based on a birth-date and then the gov’t takes from one to give to those type individuals then the tenet becomes worthless…….

We choose everything we do and should have to live with the consequences of said choices without expecting others to bail us out………there is nothing wrong with a hand up and a safety net, but there should always be conditions attached.

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This is all just inside baseball, to me, and it sort of makes my eyes glaze over. That being said though, I’m not sure Rand Paul would be a horse I’d want to hitch to my wagon.

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Ahhh, good old Cherokee, ignorantly lumping me in with “Republicans”.

Shame Cherokee doesn’t understand the first thing about being a Constitutionalist.

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Stephanie Cutter, Romney, laid off worker’s wife

oh, that. I thought this was about the bullying victim.

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HD @ 2.37, thanks–that would be the charitable way to interpret those remarks, and maybe I ought to assume the best of Rubio.

I’m afraid, however, that I’m probably at least a little predisposed to read words like that (mind you, I read them, I didn’t hear them) and imagine them being directed to someone who assumes that “liberal” = “freeloader.”

Probably comes from spending entirely too much time in joints like this…

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“I thought this was about the bullying victim.”

No, but thanks for reminding me about THAT attack as well, Stands.

Yeah, let’s focus on something that happened 40+ years ago while he was still in school. Not as if most (if not all) of us haven’t done something stupid we would have liked to reconsider after the passage of time (Hey, back in high school, a couple of friends and I were not satisfied with just dropping water balloons during a Demolay conclave, so we were filling large trash bags with water and dropping them 3 stories at people. Good thing we didn’t hit anyone directly or we might have broken their necks, but we didn’t think about it when we were doing it).

But the media built that into the equivalent of Romney sending people to the gas chambers.

It’s the new norm for most campaigns, but this President used it to laughable extremes his lapdogs ate up.

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Rafe Hollister

March 18th, 2013
1:13 pm
“More background checks?” Palin said. “Dandy idea, Mr. President. Shoulda started with yours.”

The good thing was that the American people DID a background check on Sarah Palin….and decided she couldn’t get CLOSE to having a seat of power……

BTW….the debate may be underway….but not too many people in the party general desire to listen….

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/18/race-and-republican-politics/?hp

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GOP should get back to being a party of fiscal conservatives. Forget social issues. It’s our fiscal mess that is going to bring our nation to its knees unless we do something about it.

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The average person, at least from my experience, has opinions on politics, but it’s way on the back burner for them

I think the average American may feel it’s his/her duty to learn a bit about the candidates and vote in a general election, but otherwise avoids most of the political stuff.

later, all…

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Much of the anxiety and frustration could be alleviated from the American people, if the politicians, who are supposed to protect us, ignored the financial pressure from the Special Interest entities and introduced the mandatory Picture ID complete with biometric information. They say it’s too expensive, which is utter “BS” when we spend hundreds of billions of dollars on multiple social programs, which are crammed tight with fraud and abuse. Our Social Security number is an antiquated identification document, never meant for personal identification. A BIOMETRIC DOCUMENT WITH A PERSONS THUMB PRINT, EYE SCAN could relief much of the fraud in our sovereign nation today?

A good example would be the voting confusion, because unknown numbers of non citizens are vote and the great state of Arizona has seen through these circumstances and ready to fight for their rights. Citizen voters and our system of elections, must not to be compromised by any non citizens cheating and committing perjury. ID theft has become an epidemic in the United States, and was involved with the 9/11 killers who had stolen ID and a new type of documentation essential for every American to deem it important. Only people with a shady past, illegal aliens and other profit minded people see a federal ID card as an encumbrance to their plans. It makes no sense to say a nationwide biometric laminated card is too expensive at $2.billion dollars, when the states are being drained of $113 billion dollars plus a year for illegal alien families, that is not counting federal cash.

An ID card would ensure no illegal alien would get a job, or welfare, or any other benefits with a stolen SSN or driver’s license. An official ID card is almost a 100 percent faultless recognition, cross checked with a mandated data base that could be used for all manner of proof of who you are? Why the goons in Washington are dismissing such a simple enforcement tool is beyond my understanding, but then why is it not a Felony to enter America without inspection? Does this gang of eight have investments in companies that supposedly secure our credit cards or run these anti theft businesses that guard our personal information? The ID heist is not going away and don’t think your invulnerable to this theft, which incidentally caught me by surprise. I only got ripped off for $3600 dollars, so I thank my lucky stars. This Arizona court case and all other states caught up in this situation, deciding its imperative for people to show proof of citizenship before voting are in a fighting mood, led by Jan Brewer the governor. Should the Supreme Court rule against this, than every American citizen should demand from their Congressional representative the implementation of a biometric card for every American?

AFTER THE REAL FENCE IS BUILT, ACCORDING TO THE DESIGN AND LENGTH OF THE 2006 SECURE FENCE ACT (H.R.6061), AFTER MANDATORY E-VERIFY (H.R. 478) ALONG WITH THE IMAGE PROGRAM IS FULLY ENFORCED, ALONG WITH A REVISED BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP LAW (H.R. 140) AND THE PROVISION OF THE SAVE ACT (H.R.830) IS VOTED INTO LAW. WITH THE INTRODUCTION OF BIOMETRIC ID CARD, THEN WE CAN TALK ABOUT GIVING ILLEGAL ALIENS LEGITIMACY FOR BEING IN AMERICA WITHOUT PERMISSION

Americans, legal resident of all nationalities whether black, Anglo, Asian, Hispanic, Latino or from any origin, Liberals, Democrats, Republicans every minority party, must become conscious that another Path to Citizenship will sink us. As Congressman Smith has stated, we must comprehend the consequences of another Amnesty, by any other name? It might seem quite harmless now, but the future of all those people, their extended family members will need pensions and retirement benefit. Even as today government is worried about paying for Medicaid, Medicare, health care and welfare now and adding millions more, and their progeny in the future is a catastrophe waiting to happen. Don’t listen to the rhetoric or propaganda from the Liberals or the open border advocates, but sign the No Amnesty petition at NumbersUSA,

If you really want your cry of dissatisfaction counted write a note to your congressman (a aid will read it and reckon up the letters ‘for’ and against) so you don’t have to hassle about being persuasive since all Your Representative hears about the amount of correspondence). Phone calls are always better and we should jam the phone system, but here you need to be coherent and not explode with an awkward outburst at the central Washington circuit phone 202) 224-3121. LEARN THE REALITY OF OUR BORDER AND INVESTIGATE THE CONCEALED NEWS AND REPORTS AT AMERICANPATROL. Plaster your Senator or Congressional House with a post card, demanding they stop the current path of overpopulation and Balkanization. Bombard Facebook and Twitter with information, as the other side do. Contact your local press and TV station, because the end is near for commonsense and also another hit on the hurting taxpayer.

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I’m sorry but I just don’t buy the “it’s the fault of the liberal media bias” excuse. The media has always had a liberal bias, this is nothing new. It’s just a profession that attracts far more liberals than conservatives for whatever reason. Well guess what? It didn’t stop Reagan from getting elected twice, it didn’t stop George HW Bush from getting elected and it didn’t stop Boy George Bush from sorta getting elected.

As for this latest so-called effort for the two sides to find agreement on a budget, well it’s going nowhere. Entitlement reform – Medicare and Social Security – has to happen. Not in a big, Ryan-proposed way, but there have to be changes. And the democrats simply aren’t willing to address that issue. So……it’s nowhere.

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Tiberius – 11:39

Does this mean you agree with what Rand Paul said?

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“Does this mean you agree with what Rand Paul said?”

Some, but not all.

I only agree with me 100%

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Question: How does the GOP think it can attract voters when the Speaker of the House has admitted lying about the debt crisis???

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/18/boehners_debt_confession_reveals_gops_intentions/

Any wonder why we look at the GOP differently??

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I am not a Republican but I’m glad they are making a sincere effort to try to improve. America is better off with two viable parties. Competition is good.

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“Question: How does the GOP think it can attract voters when the Speaker of the House has admitted lying about the debt crisis???”

Question: How does HDB think he’s ever going to be taken seriously in an intelligent discussion when he believes stuff posted on salon.com?

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jms @2:52

EXACTLY! “GOP should get back to being a party of fiscal conservatives.”

I am working on my tax report and it isn’t fun. I don’t mind supporting our great country but I do mind it being wasted, covered over with debt and all the interest that debt adds plus supporting people who are quite capable of taking care of themselves if necessary.

CPAC, KNICKNACKS and nice speeches are not going to pull our country to its feet. We need limited government with limited government business and not nurse maid, feeder, provider and homemaker government which is established now in Washington.

Independence, my friends. We have lost it. We are now indebted to losing weight, eating right, exercising more, preventive medicine, low cost housing, climate control, non-gasolines and how to heat your house with sunshine. Who cares about liberty and freedom which is cherished around the world where they don’t have it. We want to forget about ours and quarrel about who might go to Washington and PROVIDE! IN the meantime, sterling examples of excess government spending in Greece and Spain are never noticed.

It’s a loser’s game which I don’t care to play. Washington belongs to us, the citizens, and not Washington controlling us. More and more, someone else decides what is “correct’ for us. It’s gone too far. Stand up and say so or get run over.

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Centrist

March 18th, 2013
11:34 am

“The liberal media would have us believe this is the end of the Republican Party because they didn’t defeat an incumbent Democrat. They dismiss that Obama made history by winning re-election with fewer votes than he won for his first term.”

Do not forget to talk about the fact that Romeny received 9 million less votes then McCain and still won the independent vote. It was the Tea Party and Religious conservatives that stayed home and gave the re election to Obama.

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Dave, even the most earnest readers move on after the 32nd paragraph.

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The F-35 isn’t even close to fully operational – it can fly only on sunny days. It can’t fly at night. And it can’t fly in clouds or near lightning. We know this because the Pentagon tells us so, in a report written for the Secretary of Defense by the Director of Operational Test and Evaluation, J. Michael Gilmore, dated February 15, 2013.

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It won’t work. Rove did such a good job in getting the Neanderthals to join the Republican Party, you can’t just turn them off in a second. Oh, I also saw that it was suggested that the Republicans have fewer debates next time. Translate: We can’t let America see just how crazy our candidates really are.

I will enjoy watching this unfold. I don’t think the Republicans can help themselves.

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“Do not forget to talk about the fact that Romeny received 9 million less votes then McCain and still won the independent vote. It was the Tea Party and Religious conservatives that stayed home and gave the re election to Obama.”

Excuse, excuses & more excuses

Obama didn’t receive as many votes as he did in 2008. Anyone can slice and dice the demographics and say what if this, what if that……… Great fodder for the DNC and RNC put at the end of the day……… you showed up to vote or you did not……

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“Oh, I also saw that it was suggested that the Republicans have fewer debates next time. Translate: Why keep giving cherry-picked sound bites to the liberal media to hammer us with for nine months.”

Fixed your typo, Buzzy. No thanks needed.

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td

Can you post a link were exit polling or any other study shows that the Tea party & religious conservatives didn’t come out to vote?

You can save the Op Eds and conjecture, just the polling info will suffice.

Thanks in advance.

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“GOP should get back to being a party of fiscal conservatives.”

True. When the GOP has absolutely nothing else to run on, then they can pretend to be fiscal conservatives.

But during the Bush Administration they spent like drunken sailors. Fortunately, America has not forgotten.

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Not surprising he doesn’t understand what a Constitutionalist is.

Or perhaps he doesn’t think the Tiberius Dictionary is quite as awesome as its creator does, and the gold standard of a Constitutionalist is not “complete agreement with Tiberius’ interpretation of our supreme laws.”

Frankly you’re just a variant of a Tea Party member. They all think they’re the true heirs of the Founding Fathers too, and thus entitled to pepper their medicare scooters with Gadsden flags.

Unless someone is planning to overthrow our government or emigrate, they’re a Constitutionalist by default. If you’d like to style yourself as one special sort that’s your right, of course, but nobody else is obligated to accept your self-appointed royal title.

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Buzzy: “But during the Bush Administration they spent like drunken sailors. Fortunately, America has not forgotten.”

And so they voted for Obama who makes Bush look like a slacker when it comes to spending. Your comment made no sense whatsoever.

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“But during the Bush Administration they spent like drunken sailors. Fortunately, America has not forgotten.”

Yeah, ’cause in 2010 America’s short-lived memory kicked those even more drunken sailors led by Pelosi to the curb.

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Buzzy,

The Bush administration had that little thing called 9/11 on their calendar. just nine months after they were in office. It was also a time when Clinton had cut the armed forces to a much smaller force.

Of course you forget that Congress (Repubs & Dems) approved an opposing attack and voted for a strike on Iraq right along with the British. Defense does cost money.

Are you taking anythng to improve your memory? You should. You only remember on side of everything.

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@Rafe…”Well, we just lost an election, big deal, happens to both parties. I believe those ideas played fairly well in 2010, which is not ancient history.”

Well actually you lost the last two Presidential elections, last four Senate elections and two of the last four House elections and in one of the two wins lost seats. An even bigger concern should be the fact that about 2/3’s of the country describe the Republican Party as “out of touch”. But please do carry on, the future will pass you by that much faster.

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Oh oh Aquagirl is “calling names’ again. I mean “variant of a Tea Party member” is almost as mean as “freeloader=liberal”.. Our fishy friend is ever so ebullient today whatever that means.

I think it means blowing bubbles over nothing.

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hahahaha

Pores not pours, but it is “pouring” out………..

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It looks like the Republicans have figured out that they have to be just like the Democrats. No morals and no values.

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Dusty

And don’t forget, Rumsfeld didn’t leave in late 2006 because things were looking stellar under his watch, but do blather on.

You must be hanging out again with Mr Roarke and tattoo on Fantasy Island.

Or are you on Gilligan’s Island with Gilligan and the Skipper today

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“Well actually you lost the last two Presidential elections, last four Senate elections and two of the last four House elections and in one of the two wins lost seats.”

All the while gaining governorships and state houses.

“An even bigger concern should be the fact that about 2/3’s of the country describe the Republican Party as “out of touch”.”

Love to see the cite on THAT number. Or is it just another lie?

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“Mr Obama, do not make a mistake: we too have all our options on the table. Before you get deeper in the region’s quagmire, go back home!” Brigadier General Masoud Jazayeri was quoted as saying on sephanews.com, website of the elite Revolutionary Guards.

Punked!

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Yeah Dusty, you are right

That’s why after losing the 2006 midterms and people getting tired of the war in Iraq, Bush fired Rumsfled the day after the elections. But you are welcome to think he “resigned” if that makes you feel better about yourself

Did you vote for this guy?

“Thank God he was relieved of his duties and we put the surge in. Otherwise, we would have had a disastrous defeat in Iraq,” McCain said.

It’s not the first time McCain has taken his criticisms of Rumsfeld public.

“We are paying a very heavy price for the mismanagement — that’s the kindest word I can give you — of Donald Rumsfeld, of this war,” he said while running for president in 2007. “I think that Donald Rumsfeld will go down in history as one of the worst secretaries of Defense in history.”

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Would that be the same McCain who was so incompetent he couldn’t beat Barry Soetoro?

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Rumsfled was fired…………… plain and simple

Your spin and usual ramblings will not change that

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Rancid priebus what a loser

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Rumsfled was fired

When you get to a certain level in life, people don’t get fired anymore, they get “asked to resign”. Getting fired looks so bad on the resume when you’re up for your next high paying gig.

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td

That is just more excuses. Both parties have inner fighting all the time. This is nothing new. They probably are fighting as much internally and jockeying for power as they are fighting the other party.

End of the day, the voters vote or they do not. Democrats didn’t come out in 2010 and were slaughtered, end of the story. DNC can make excuses all they want, but they were beat. Same as any other election regardless of party.

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snoqualmiefalls: we in Arizona like our federal government cause that’s the only barrier to getting run over by illegals from Mexico
—————————

Xenophobe.

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It’s obvious Lil barry has no idea what life is like in a border state, just check out the number of illegals and drugs that are crossing during this sequestration… check with america’s Sheriff Joe or sheriffs along the border..
Xenophobe……. indeed…….. my good man…………. indeed.

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It’s clear that snoqualmiefalls has no idea what a Constitutionalist is, nor any idea of my opinion of Grover Norquist.

Given, of course, that ignorance is the usual way of snoqualmiefalls’ posts . . . .

And you might wish to review Kyle’s rules for using blogger’s names, snoqualmiefalls. I use yours out of courtesy. You would do well to use mine that way also.

Oh, and the whole “drowning in a bathtub” thing? I believe that is AmVet’s preferred method to deal with conservatives.

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“and imagine them being directed to someone who assumes that “liberal” = “freeloader.””

Hmmm……an entire campaign run on “fair share for the rich” (that are already paying a majority of all taxes) seems to indicate that liberals very well may = freeloader.

Or did I miss the part about offering up the tax cuts that we all received?

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Tiberius – pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

March 18th, 2013
2:33 pm
Ahhh, good old Cherokee, ignorantly lumping me in with “Republicans”.

Shame Cherokee doesn’t understand the first thing about being a Constitutionalist
———————————————————–
A “constitutionalist” is what a Republican calls itself after the debacle of the W Bush years, to distance themselves from the damage done to this country by the worst. president. ever. while avoiding taking responsibility for their poor choice.
See also “conservative”, “libertarian”, “teapartier”.

These same people, in an attempt to alleviate the deep guilt they rightfully feel but won’t admit, castigate President Obama with over the top diatribes, bizarre or outrageous claims. They think that if the American people can be convinced of all that garbage, that by comparison Bush wouldn’t look so bad, and they can take solace in thinking that the Left made a mistake as tragic as their own. Of course, they are wrong, deluded by their guilt, and the grevious amount of butthurt inflicted by consecutive Democratic presidential victories.

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snoqualmiefalls: It’s obvious Lil barry has no idea what life is like in a border state
——————–

You need to learn to be more tolerant of our undocumented future citizens. Why do you hate people who aren’t like you?

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One simply can’t have an intelligent conversation with somebody convinced that only they know the true intended meaning of every word written in the Constitution, because by definition, they are delusional.

But it’s TIBERUS, not some mere mortal.

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“but someone with an ounce of ethical behavior would have apologized for being so wrong about someone as you were”
—————————————————-
In which case, if you had even half an ounce of ethical behavior, Kyle’s blog would be filled with apologies from you to all those you have been wrong about. But then, I never expected that either.

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And once again, I do so attract the resident liberal leg-humpers on here.

Can’t refute what I post, so they just attack me personally.

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Tiberius – pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

March 18th, 2013
7:35 pm

Of course, you’d have to actually PROVE that I was wrong, saywhat?, and that you haven’t done.

But don’t let me keep you from continuing to try.

And fail.
——————————–
How about your first post on this blog today, where you accuse indigo of “demonizing” Rand Paul? All he did was provide a link of 5 Rand Paul quotes. Apparently, in Criberius land, pointing out what somebody actually said is “demonizing” them. I am sure you will quickly cite a legitimate dictionary definition of the word “demonize” which includes quoting people. Or, you can apologize to indigo.

As for leg humping, I would let little barry’s dog hump your leg, for fear of what it might catch.

“Can’t refute what I post, so they just attack me personally.”

OOPS! Your hypocritical self-righteous umbrage when insults are returned is showing!

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Goodnight criberius. Sleep well enjoying your delusions of superiority and persecution. It keeps all us evil liberals entertained here in Kyle’s kiddie pool.

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snoqual

I thought the border was tighter than it has ever been, at least that is what Big Sis tells us daily. What is your complaint, obviously, this former governor of yours knows everything about AZ and border control. Was she telling a big fib?

Depending on the fed government and politicians to keep out illegal immigrants is just plain feeble. Neither party has controlled the borders since the 1970’s. Future Americans, our patronizing politicians feel they can take care of and in turn secure a vote.

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@Tiberius…”I do so attract the resident liberal leg-humpers on here.”

Incorrect as usual…you, being the very definition of troll, attract troll killers.

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someone said this on another blog but seems true:
Thomas Jefferson stated that a free press was crucial to maintaining a viable democracy. It no longer exists for the most part. It’s now just an arm of big business, corrupt politicians, corporate lobbyists and the one percent.

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The big news today is the speaker throwing ryan under the bus to agree with President Obama.

There is no debt crisis.

Repeat that fact three times cons and it might sink in.

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Interest rates will only rise if the economy is experience growth, genius. We grow our way out of debt. we always have and always will. The talent on this board!

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Interest rates may also rise if Treasury is forced to pay a higher yield to attract buyers. That of course is tied to our debt rating.

But if you’re arguing tax receipts will pick up enough to fund current government and pay down the debt you are living in a fantasy land. What an incredibly stupid and foolish thing to say.

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“Repeat that fact three times cons and it might sink in.”
———

There you have the leftard solution to Obozo’s debt and deficit problem. Just do like that little girl in Kansas who was dreaming about magical wizards and flying monkeys.

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Georgia: We grow our way out of debt.
———————

We’re growing our spending and debt faster than we can grow our growth.

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As an INDEPENDENT, there are facets of each party that I agree with. However, each party treats them differently. I am adamantly pro-death penalty, but the Democrat party doesn’t have a plank in its platform saying that the death penalty must be fought in all cases and is inherently evil.

I am also pro-choice, and the Republican party DOES have a plank in its platform about abortion.

The problem is that the Republican party doesn’t seem to be very inclusive when it comes to us independents.

I was for insurance and health-care reform and supported the individual mandate (which the Republican party once supported), but the Democrats were the ones who passed it and the Republicans are fighting it tooth and nail, seemingly ONLY because it was passed by Democrats. That turns me off.

I am very much a fiscal conservative – but fiscal conservative does not mean that I oppose every tax. We need more Medicare taxes to support the Medicare program. Fiscal conservatism means you have to pay for the programs you want.

I have a problem with BOTH parties when it comes to compromising. But is DOES seem to me that the Republican party has been the party of “no”.

So, Republicans, do you want the votes of us Independents and “middle of the roaders” or do you want us to keep voting Democrat (since there is not a third party).

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They weren’t voting for Obozo, but they weren’t motivated to get out and vote for moderate Romney. There is a difference, pretending-to-be-middle-of-the-road.

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The difference is that president obama ran a more strategic and smarter campaign targeting democratic voters. Republican mitt romney was doomed by the party brand, except for the old white man demographic – it’s poison.

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Sailfish – 6:12

We will be paying billions in medical costs for all those injured, physically and mentally, in that useless war. And, these costs will be with us for decades.

As always, in this war and the Afghanistan war, the only real winner is the Military-Industrial Complex.

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“They weren’t voting for Obozo, but they weren’t motivated to get out and vote for moderate Romney.”

So it was an indirect vote for Obama. Thanks Cons who couldn’t stomach the bullying, sanctimonious, Wall Street thug.

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Only and idiot would compare today’s Democrats with those who opposed the Civil Rights Act in the mid-60’s.

Those men closely resemble many of today’s Republicans.

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Only and idiot would compare today’s Democrats with those who opposed the Civil Rights Act in the mid-60’s.

Yep, they are much more subtle today than back then, not as overt.

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lester garfield maddox, Sr. (September 30, 1915 – June 25, 2003), was an American politician who was the 75th Governor of the U.S. state of Georgia from 1967 to 1971. A populist governor and democrat, Maddox came to prominence as a staunch segregationist.[1]

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@Rafe…”Where are we today without the invasion and how much have we spent enforcing the no fly zones, what has Saddam been up to and how much have we spent “containing” him, and is the UN still relevant after 17 resolutions against Saddam were totally ignored?”

Cost of maintaining a no fly zone runs about $1 billion a year so the cost would have been around $10 billion thus far….WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY less than 1% of what we spent.

As for Saddam, it is irrelevant, he was bottled up and going nowhere. There is no chance he would have killed more people than the war did and a very good chance he would have been swept out in the Arab Spring.

As for the UN, who cares? It is the Republicans that see the UN as a bogeyman…it is nothing more than a used tool from time to time.

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The southern white Democrat anger was fueled by the fact that it was their own party leaders – LBJ, etc, who were pushing those acts through Congress.

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James William Fulbright (April 9, 1905 – February 9, 1995) was a United States Senator representing Arkansas from 1945 to 1975.

Fulbright was a Southern Democrat. He was also a segregationist who signed the Southern Manifesto.

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However, during the Nixon administration Fulbright voted for a civil rights bill and led the charge against confirming Nixon’s conservative Supreme Court nominees Clement Haynsworth and Harold Carswell.

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“Fiscal conservatism means you have to pay for the programs you want.”

Laugh of the day. Middle of the road, you are so much more a “dependent” than you are an “independent”.

But nice try at redefining the idea of a fiscal conservative.

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Typical GOP ignorance from a spokesperson of the white southern GOP base:
“”"“The main problem with the GOP is they are convinced you can get everything with out taxes to pay for it.”
Lie.You are not informed enough or unbiased enough to state the GOP’s beliefs, Jefferson.”"”"”"”"”"”"”

AQnmd Mr. Tiberius – where did the GOP get the funds for two wars under George W, expanding the military budget by over 200%, and free Medicare drugs forthe elederly as well as money to bail out AIG and investment bankers who screwed up??????????????????????????
I assume you believe cutting taxes increases revenues.

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“Fiscal conservatism means you have to pay for the programs you want. Laugh of the day. Middle of the road, you are so much more a “dependent” than you are an “independent”.
But nice try at redefining the idea of a fiscal conservative.”

See, Republicans or “conservatives” define fiscal conservatism as cutting spending on everything EXCEPT defense, turning Medicare into an insurance voucher program, privatizing Social Security, while cutting taxes. And then they wonder why they don’t get support from the moderates.

Here’s your sign.

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Oh, I forgot – to consevatives, fiscal conservative means keeping farm subsidies to “family” farms when corporate farms ar much more efficient. Also “fiscal conservative” means keeping subsidies to the oil and gas industry when they make record profits.

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@Tiberius…”Your first part is simply speculation. Your second part might make some sense if we actually knew that something called “the Arab Spring” actually existed. Unfortunately, that happened abut 8 years after the inception of the Iraq invasion.”

Your point being? Of course it is speculation…that is what you do when answering a speculative question. As for the Arab Spring…again your point is?

My contention is that had Saddam stayed in power we would have saved between $1 and $2 trillion, spent $10 billion or so on no fly zones etc… and most likely Saddam would have been overthrown internally as were Mubarak and Kaddafi.

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@Dusty…”Anti-war people MAY mean well but their vision is very short sighted.”

BIG difference between anti war and strategic thinking. WWII was a strategic necessity, Iraq was an adventure. Stalin, was never the subject of US military action but Iran may well be one day. Should that day come it should be because of a strategic necessity rather than another pointless adventure.

We wasted the entire effort in Iraq because we went for the wrong reasons and without the resolve and resources to control the situation. Duhbya/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz decided to live in an echo chamber. When General Shinseki told them that a war in Iraq and it’s aftermath would require several hundred thousand troops and would take at least ten years (think Marshall Plan). Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz attacked Shinseki as being “wildly off the mark.” They forced him to retire and neither of them was man enough to attend his retirement ceremony.

Thinking that was stupid isn’t anti war it is rational thought and hopefully it has been a lesson learned.

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JDW

I think you grossly underestimate the cost of containment. One fighter plane crashes and we are close to your 1 B number. Several crashed during the pre-war no fly zone fiasco. The costs of rescues, US Aid to neighboring countries, the need to maintain bases and extra forces in the area. Yeah, a war is much more expensive, but you can’t just say, well the war costs X, so if we don’t invade, we save X.

As a reference point, I looked for 45 minutes in the weeds of budget documents and could not arrive at the cost of containing N Korea from 1953 to present. With all our troops stationed there, cost of the bases, defense aid to S. Korea, humanitarian aid to N Korea, we have to be approaching 2/3 Trillion. I was glad to see we finally stopped providing economic aid to S Korea back in the 70’s, since their economy was growing so fast, thanks in a large part to the US for rebuilding the country.

Bottom line, leaving Saddam in power would not have been a no cost option.

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sailfish,

Shuffling off the financial blame on Bush doesn’t cut it any more. Bush was faced with a national catastrophe and he handled it. Then our troops won a victory over the dictator in Iraq who hated us. Now Obama has has FOUR years to do his “thing”. He has tried to follow Bush’s policies (after denouncing him) but has muddled things so badly solutions are almost impossible.

Keep on bragging and blaming but Americans know who is president NOW and so will history.

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dusty

Oh yes, history does know and not many are defending the iraqi misadventure. Going to war and cutting taxes, only one US president has that distinction, the credit card bill is due, don’t blame obama.

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10 years later, 57 Iraqis blown up today.

All bushies should be handed over to the Iraqis for justice.

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“the credit card bill is due, don’t blame obama.”

Sorry, but he’s had 4 years with which to end those wars faster, and he didn’t change one thing from Bush’s plans. He also added a couple of trillion he didn’t have to spend as well.

The current President Incompetent has his own share of blame.

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rand paul will lead on immigration reform.

rand is the new leader of the gop.

That will not end well.

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tiberius

Fine, there’s enough blame to go around, but bush set us on this course and he should be held to account for it.
As far as the incompetent moniker, your applying it to the wrong president; afer all it was obama who finished the job and got bin laden in a very competent manner. Not like the previous guy who gave up.

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Getalife likes the idea of living under a dictator.

Bush did not think anyone would like that.

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We can end the gop party with accountability for Iraq.

Give them justice.

Give them all bushies and cons.

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Give Dusty to the Iraqis.

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“OUR president has us 16.5 TRILLION $$$ in debt and RISING! Halleluia!”

That’s misleading. When Boy George Bush took office the national debt was $4.8 trillion. When he left office it was $9.5 trillion. So the entire amount does not belong to Obama. So during his tenure $7 billion has been added to the debt in 4+ years, and it took Boy George 8 years to add $4.7 trillion.

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” If not, you have to RAISE TAXES.”

No, you can always CUT SPENDING.

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“Syria is dropping chemicals on it’s own people, iran is launching new destroyers, north korea is nuked up, russia laughs in our face, yeah, obozo’s doing a great job.”

They were all peaceful and contained before Jan 09, huh?

bwhahahahahahaaa

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“Our President leaves for Israel today so politics ends at waters edge.

Stop attacking him cons.”

Uh, getalife?

That courtesy applies to Federal elected officials.

In this country, the First Amendment still applies to the rest of us.

Deal with it.

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Syria is dropping chemicals on it’s own people, iran is launching new destroyers, north korea is nuked up, russia laughs in our face, yeah, obozo’s doing a great job

ie, I’m so scared, I’m about to soil my drawers.

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“Perhaps Senator Portman’s love for his son has deceived him in not being able to differentiate between loving his son and helping his son to do the right thing, versus changing his entire worldview and his view of the natural institution of legitimate marriage in order to accommodate his son’s abhorrent lifestyle.” Matt Barber (R), Liberty Counsel, 3-18-2013.

Meanwhile late yesterday ABC released results of a just competed poll. Among eligible voters age 18 to 29 the poll found 81% support gay marriage.

Hmm. I’m sensing a bit of disconnect here.

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“As far as the incompetent moniker, your applying it to the wrong president; afer all it was obama who finished the job and got bin laden in a very competent manner. Not like the previous guy who gave up.”

Once again, sailfish, it was Navy Seals who finished the job.

And please show us where Bush issued any orders “giving up” on finding Bin Laden. Hate to burst your bubble, but very few fugitives from justice escape their final fate. Time just caught up with Bin Laden under President Incompetent’s watch. he get credit for issuing the orders (albeit late), but he did nothing 99% of Americans would have done in the same position.

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It was the President that changed focus on aq to get obl.

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I’m so glad we rebuilt Iraq into a safe, genteel, paradise. I think the Cons should go and vacation there with their families this summer. Beats Disney World!

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Bush had one of America’s greatest attacks to contend with.

ie, W got caught napping. Thousands of civilian Americans died.

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Oh yes, the Navy Seals were trained overnight by Obama who had sketched up a plan with pencil and paper to rid us of OSAMA.

Marvelous! I wish the president could sketch up a budget that could pass and cut expenses. That would be down right marvelous too.

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“I’m so glad we rebuilt Iraq into a safe, genteel, paradise.”

Well Iran now has a new friend, but outside of US troops there indefinitely I believe that was going to occur under any President after Saddam was toppled.
The Shiite connection between the two is very strong. Something that seems to have not been given much thought, overlooked or outright ignored before deciding to go in.

Either way, Iran has a new friend which even allows Iran to go over land and airspace to supply Syria.

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Finn still spreading the big”ones”..

If Bush was asleep on 9/11 so was Clinton since Bush had been in office NINE MONTHS.

But Clinton was busy and we know why. Studyng the meaning of “is” I believe it was.

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“4 trillion in cuts.

Why won’t your party take the deal dusty?”

Oh, maybe due to the additional trillions in new taxes?

Ya think?

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“Oh, maybe due to the additional trillions in new taxes?

Ya think?”

Your party already passed the tax increase on the wealthy.

Try again con.

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tiberius

It was a well reported fact that in 2006, bush told the cia to put the hunt for bin laden on hiatus…as far as giving the order to get bin laden in a sovereign country, a very gutsy call and if it had failed, you waould have been calling for his head on a stake, not the navy seals!

Dusty

Give it up please, your hero took a surplus and spent us into a black hole….on top of that cut taxes = less revenue, duh, then…when he left we were losing a million jobs a month for the nest 8 months = less revenue…there’s your deficit.

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“If Bush was asleep on 9/11 so was Clinton since Bush had been in office NINE MONTHS.”

Clinton was in office two months when the 1st attempt took place to take down the towers………

Was Sr asleep?

Personally I think their were failures all over that went over several administrations (Carter through today), but using your logic you must think Sr was in a coma.

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@Tiberius…”Once again, sailfish, it was Navy Seals who finished the job.”

My My what a piece of work you are…you give Obama no credit for having the fortitude to issue the order, the same order Duhbya declined to issue at Tora Bora mind you. Yet you like to blame him for spending in FY2009, a year that was budgeted and appropriated before he took office.

Welcome to The Tiberius Zone…

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Gee Dusty you’re a little touchy today. But facts are facts and the fact is the national debt increased $4.7 trillion while Bush was president. This is not breaking news or anything, it’s been on the books for 5 years. Now you can try to spin that any way you wish, or excuse it any way you wish, but the fact is that is what happened. GW was not a fiscal conservative.

Ultimately it is the job of Congress to act in a fiscally responsible manner. And so the real blame for this mess lies with every democrat who has served in Congress over the past 5 years and every republican who served in Congress between 2001 and 2008. Except for Jeff Flake from Arizona. And recently retired Ron Paul from Texas, who was actually a libertarian. Those two are true fiscal conservatives.

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“But the sods are scared of me, they know I won’t cave in over their antics and they’ll probably wind up with a black eye for their troubles. ”

As he shadow boxes from behind his keyboard…… that had him huffing and puffing within 3 swings…….

Got to love those internet tough guys

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Ok, I guess Benghazi happened on W’s watch.

Where was W? How long did he just sit and read that 4th grade book???

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Japan and Germany not so wise one

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“Oh, maybe due to the additional trillions in new taxes?”

O yes…’cause taxes are soooooooooooooooo high right now…oooopppss not so much.

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p-lo Truman wasn’t a flaming degenerate like this current crop of liberals, could we try to remain on subject?

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“p-lo Truman wasn’t a flaming degenerate like this current crop of liberals, could we try to remain on subject?”

Translation: waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

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“the people’s republic of vietnam?”

Nixon says “what”

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Actually Ike started that one.

Yep and the libs finished it the only way they know how – surrender monkey.

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Aesop

You have taken moving your own goal post to a new level………. You attempt top move the stadium………. but keep swinging.

You are a menace………… in your own mind. Keep it not so tough guy

Peace

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“keep it up……….”

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“It was a well reported fact that in 2006, bush told the cia to put the hunt for bin laden on hiatus”

And of course you have a cite for this well-reported fact, sailfish?

‘Cause a search regarding this “fact” produces nothing but liberal opinion pieces (which of course, cite no proof).

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waterboarding got osama.

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The National Institutes of Health (NIH) has awarded $2.7 million to study why lesbians are at a higher “risk for hazardous drinking.”

Because low morals leads to hisk risk behaviour, you morons. Now quit sqaundering our children’s future.

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JDW/Tiberius

The only point I was trying to make is that the Progs can’t just say, if no war we save X. Not true, X-other costs of containing Saddam. Here was one cost and others would have been accrued as well, speculation but based on previous instances of “containment”. Yes, the cost of containment is much less, but that too depends on the length of time we try, e.g. N. Korea.

From Boston Globe
Last month, Iraq claimed to have shot down a Predator reconnaissance plane in the Basra area. The US Defense Department acknowledged losing a plane in that area, but said it was unsure whether it had been hit by hostile fire or had crashed on its own.

The Pentagon has said that plane was the first US aircraft lost in Iraq in the 10 years since US and British planes began patrolling ”no-fly” zones – except for a ”friendly fire” incident in 1994. Then, two American F-15 fighter jets mistakenly shot down two US Army helicopters over northern Iraq, killing 15 Americans, five Iraqi Kurds, three Turks, two Britons, and a Frenchman.

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Well, there is proof that I am hungry which I may blame on the infamous fiddle faddle displayed here by liberals (when they could be rejoicing over at Bookie’s place).

Anyway, since this is about as much fun as working on my taxes, I shall depart wishing for BK’s new turkey burger. But alas! That is not to be. ( I had a Whopper yesterday and must raid the refrig today!) Such is life and leftovers.

If Kyle comes back, tell him to resurrect this blog. It has passed on to lala land.

I bid thee farewell!

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Kennedy escalated Vietnam and got 50,000+ Americans killed. And for what? To top Truman’s Korea body count?

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nixon committed treason to keep Vietnam going.

More gop devastation.

The gop will not make it unless they surrender to President Obama and fix their failed party.

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Uh, Aesop?

You might wish to peruse the multiple stories regarding whether waterboarding actually got the information used to find Bin Laden, or whether waterboarding was used as an interrogation technique to get information from people in the search for Bin Laden.

Even Panetta was unclear on that topic. Was it used in interrogations regarding Bin Laden? Yes. Did the information gleaned from those waterboarding interrogations provide the information used? Not so clear.

It’s all in the semantics used by Panetta.

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“The gop will not make it unless they surrender to President Obama and fix their failed party.”

What kind of pathetic excuse for an American would insist that other Americans should surrender to our government and it’s leader?

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Sorry Aesop…come on back to reality….

“Nixon managed to end the war not in 1970, but in early 1973. By then, 25,000 more American soldiers had died, and Nixon’s chance to earn the title of peacemaker had evaporated. Although Nixon withdrew American troops steadily from the time he took office, he had also extended the war into Cambodia and Laos. In the minds of many, Vietnam would always be Richard Nixon’s war.”

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/general-article/nixon-legacy/

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@Rafe…”The only point I was trying to make is that the Progs can’t just say, if no war we save X. ”

As I have conceded we would have only saved 90 to 99 percent of the costs…

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tiberius

“The Central Intelligence Agency has closed a unit that for a decade had the mission of hunting Osama bin Laden and his top lieutenants, intelligence officials confirmed Monday.
The unit, known as Alec Station, was disbanded late last year and its analysts reassigned within the C.I.A. Counterterrorist Center, the officials said.”

I’ll meet you halfway, the unit was disbanded….no need for the pithy comments about comprehension, it’s just so….juvenile.

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Aesop

And you have substantiated evidence had the US not pulled troops out of Vietnam that the Khmer Rouge would not have slaughtered so many of their people or that the US would have went into Cambodia or do you have conjecture?

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The U.S. midterm elections in 1974 brought in a new Congress dominated by Democrats who were even more determined to confront the president on the war. Congress immediately voted in restrictions on funding and military activities to be phased in through 1975 and to culminate in a total cutoff of funding in 1976.

Surrender.

Monkeys.

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@Aesop…1:33…better find a better source for your fantasies…there were no troops in place in 1974.

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jdw – The last US action in Vietnam was the bombing from the air of Haiphong and Hanoi. And we broke their military and industrial complexes doing it.

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January 8, 1973 – Kissinger and Le Duc Tho resume negotiations in Paris.

January 9, 1973 – All remaining differences are resolved between Kissinger and Le Duc Tho.

President Thieu, once again threatened by Nixon with a total cut-off of American aid to South Vietnam, now unwillingly accepts the peace agreement, which still allows North Vietnamese troops to remain in South Vietnam. Thieu labels the terms “tantamount to surrender” for South Vietnam.

January 23, 1973 – President Nixon announces that an agreement has been reached which will “end the war and bring peace with honor.”

January 27, 1973 – The Paris Peace Accords are signed by the U.S., North Vietnam, South Vietnam and the Viet Cong. Under the terms, the U.S. agrees to immediately halt all military activities and withdraw all remaining military personnel within 60 days. The North Vietnamese agree to an immediate cease-fire and the release of all American POWs within 60 days. An estimated 150,000 North Vietnamese soldiers presently in South Vietnam are allowed to remain. Vietnam is still divided. South Vietnam is considered to be one country with two governments, one led by President Thieu, the other led by Viet Cong, pending future reconciliation.

January 27, 1973 – Secretary of Defense Melvin Laird announces the draft is ended in favor of voluntary enlistment.

January 27, 1973 – The last American soldier to die in combat in Vietnam, Lt. Col. William B. Nolde, is killed.

February 12, 1973 – Operation Homecoming begins the release of 591 American POWs from Hanoi.

March 29, 1973 – The last remaining American troops withdraw from Vietnam as President Nixon declares “the day we have all worked and prayed for has finally come.”

http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/vietnam/index-1969.html

Nixon says “what”

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To show his support for South Vietnam and force Hanoi back to the negotiating table, Nixon ordered Operation Linebacker II, a massive bombing of Hanoi and Haiphong 18–29 December 1972. The offensive destroyed much of the remaining economic and industrial capacity of North Vietnam.

During his confirmation hearings in June 1973, Secretary of Defense James R. Schlesinger stated that he would recommend resumption of U.S. bombing in North Vietnam if North Vietnam launched a major offensive against South Vietnam. On 4 June 1973, the U.S. Senate passed the Case-Church Amendment to prohibit such intervention.

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In any case, Vietnam was JFK’s war and he’s as responsible for the post-1963 KIAs as Bush is for post-2009 Afghanistan casualties.

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You cut off military aid and withdraw air support, and p-lo has absolutely no idea what that means.

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The 10 day 1973 bombing campaign in Hanoi completely destroyed the north’s ability to make war on the South, this should preeeeeettttttyyyyyy eeeeaaaasssssssyyyyy to understand considering the the war lasted until the middle of 1975.

But noooo, some of us are dense.

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There is so much blame to be assigned regarding the Vietnam war. Why are you people continuing to blame one party’s President or another?

It was JFK’s war. It was LBJ’s war. It was Nixon’s war. It the Congresses which continued to approve funding for it war.

Move on for crying out loud.

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Aesop

But if you prove it in your own mind, rock on fella…… rock on

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“The 10 day 1973 bombing campaign in Hanoi completely destroyed the north’s ability to make war on the South, this should preeeeeettttttyyyyyy eeeeaaaasssssssyyyyy to understand considering the the war lasted until the middle of 1975.

But noooo, some of us are dense.”

An yet, the North still managed to overrun the South. Your history is very creative, Aesop, but not very accurate.

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1973 bombing campaign. 1973, right?

On 13 December 1974, North Vietnamese forces attacked Route 14 in Phuoc Long Province. Phuoc Binh, the provincial capital, fell on 6 January 1975. Ford desperately asked Congress for funds to assist and re-supply the South before it was overrun. Congress refused.

Are you honestly telling me you do not understand the capabilities of the US B-52 Stratofortress?

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tibs doesn’t understand air power, how unique.

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aesop

Stop digging..

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btw, your 1:55 and 1:58 posts contradict each other, Aesop.

If the 1973 bombing campaign “completely destroyed the north’s ability to make war on the South” – your words, Aesop, why would Ford desperately need funds in 1974 to keep the South from being overrun?

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I’m a Vietnam Vet and life member of the VFW.

I see signs thanking the 58,000 KIA for protecting our Freedom.

Just how was our Freedom in jeopardy?

The 58,000 were sacrificed on the altar of Political calculation and the Military-Industrial complex.

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Did you serve in the USAF or not?

Now you’re losing it, dude.

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“Did you serve in the USAF or not?

Now you’re losing it, dude.”

Got it.

Your answer is a resounding – NO.

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No, he didn’t. In fact, no war has ever been won with air power alone.

It takes boots on the ground.

That’s nice considering there was no direct ground combat involving NATO.

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“That’s nice considering there was no direct ground combat involving NATO”

No, but there WERE boots on the ground, Aesop.

And I would hardly call that little dust-up a “war”.

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Vietnamization was again tested by the Easter Offensive of 1972, a massive conventional invasion of South Vietnam. The VPA and NLF quickly overran the northern provinces and in coordination with other forces attacked from Cambodia, threatening to cut the country in half. U.S. troop withdrawals continued. But American airpower came to the rescue with Operation Linebacker, and the offensive was halted. However, it became clear that without American airpower South Vietnam could not survive. The last remaining American ground troops were withdrawn in August.

Offense halted. Wow, go figure.

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Aesop’s Fables and other Lib Economic Theories .

“Offense halted. Wow, go figure.”

Our airpower was in support of South Vietnamese ground troops. It was a combined effort.

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Our airpower was in support of South Vietnamese ground troops. It was a combined effort.

Bravo! A breakthrough! I agree!

And it would have worked in 1975 and saved South Vietnam if the surrender monkey liberals hadn’t stopped it.

Thank you.

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Aesop’s Fables and other Lib Economic Theories

“And it would have worked in 1975 and saved South Vietnam if the surrender monkey liberals hadn’t stopped it.”

Disagree. It may have stopped that drive in 1975, but the North wouldn’t have quit. President Ford correctly decided we had done all we were going to do. No more sacrifice by Americans.

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“Remember, you are agreeing to 60% of the budget cuts to come from defense, so don’t come back and say “they are necessary to protect American interests” and so can’t be cut but I don’t want to increase taxes to pay for them.”

Who do you think you’re talking to, middle of the road, a lib?

I’m consistent.

Always have been.

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Tiberius – pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

That explains why we invaded Grenada.

I believe we can take Cuba, too. Think of the tourist possibilities.

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I hear the constant argument that not sticking to our guns on items like gay marriage, etc, will alienate the more conservative base – i just don’t buy it. Conservatives of all flavors are not going to up and vote for Obama because their candidate was too moderate. The question is “which one more closely aligns with me” – not – “which one fits every core value of mine exactly?” It’s a fool’s paradise to allow prosperity and liberty to disintegrate because you don’t like the idea of gay marriage or reasonable immigration policies. Rand gets it, my parents don’t – it is that easy.

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“I would rather see SS cut slowly so everyone gets a little rather than the current generation getting fully funded and you and I only get 75%. Of course, 75% is better than nothing.”

I agree with that approach, it’s very sensible. I’m still a ways away from Social Security eligibility and there are going to be one heck of a lot of boomers retiring between now and then. It’d be nice if there is a little bit left over my age group. But I’m certainly not counting on it.

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“I agree with that approach, it’s very sensible. I’m still a ways away from Social Security eligibility and there are going to be one heck of a lot of boomers retiring between now and then.”

Unfortunately, as a boomer, I am VERY CLOSE to retirement age.

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“Are you under the illusion that SS and Medicare are, today, self funded? They are not. Both programs now spend more than they take in.”

I know that. SS puts out somewhat more than it takes in (just started a couple of years ago). It will get worse. Medicare spends A LOT more than it takes in; that is why Medicare taxes need to be increased to cover the expenditures. Or do we just let Grandma die?

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“If the electoral process doesn’t produce some common ground for constructive policy decisions, then I fear that, sooner rather than later, variable pressures will come to bear on monetary policy and some combination of a weak dollar and rising interest rates. Financial institutions and markets … would then again be in jeopardy.” Paul Volcker, Former Federal Reserve Chairman (1979-1987) 3-15-2013.

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middle

It seems pretty simple to me and that is this; of all the entities that our gov’t owes money to, the american people vis a vie social security, is first in line for payment. All the rest can fall in behind.

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