CPAC 2013: Where does conservative military policy go from here?
Sen. Rand Paul’s 13-hour filibuster last week, in which he demanded the Obama administration clarify if it believes it has the authority to kill Americans on U.S. soil with drones, sparked blowback from some of his fellow Republicans, including Sen. John McCain. That has sparked debate about whether the GOP is moving in a new direction regarding foreign and military policy, or drifting apart into two, ahem, warring camps.
But foreign-policy and military experts speaking on a Thursday morning panel at the American Conservative Union’s CPAC conference sounded a relatively consistent line of thinking, albeit more about the use of force overseas while largely staying away from the topic of domestic drones.
“The proper natural end of war is your peace, the peace according to you, the peace you want,” said Angelo Codevilla, professor of international relations at Boston University. “Victory is that achievement. And defeat is in fact letting the enemy achieve his version of peace. That is what war is all about.
“Our bipartisan leaders for the past generation have forgotten that fundamental truth. So they have engaged us in a variety of enterprises around the world without knowing what they are fighting for and what they want to achieve. … They have deprived us of the proper product [of war]. This country has no peace right now. And the lack of peace is eating away at us.”
Rep. Tom Cotton, a Republican from Arkansas and veteran of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, sounded a similar note. “Wars are not movies. They do not end. They are won or they are lost,” he said. “We should fight anywhere, but we should not fight everywhere.”
Cotton also criticized the Obama administration’s decision to try the recently captured son-in-law of Osama bin Laden, Sulaiman Abu Ghaith, in federal court rather than holding him at Guantanamo Bay — in the prison President Obama hasn’t closed despite his 2008 campaign rhetoric about the need to do so — so that the military could interrogate him at length and try him in a military tribunal.
“It’s possible, I suppose, that we had exploited him for all intelligence value in just the few hours we had him” under military custody, Cotton said. But he noted it took far longer for the U.S. to learn from 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed about the courier whose presence ultimately led Navy SEALs to Osama bin Laden’s hideout in Pakistan.
Cotton’s comments echoed remarks Georgia’s Sen. Saxby Chambliss made to me Wednesday in his office, when he called a federal-court trial for Abu Ghaith “a huge mistake.”
“This is not an ordinary terrorist, it’s an enemy combatant,” Chambliss said. Yet, “he’ll be tried as an ordinary bank robber would be.”
In any case, the notion that America should engage in nation-building abroad came in for rough criticism from the CPAC panelists. Rep. Louie Goehmert of Texas recalled how it took little time and few soldiers to come to the brink of victory in Afghanistan, citing the help of the Northern Alliance.
“They fought the Taliban and defeated them for us,” Goehmert said. “We had less than 500 American soldiers … in Afghanistan when we defeated the Taliban because the Northern Alliance did our work. That was the beginning of the very end for the Taliban until — after we won — we sent in tens of thousands of troops in to occupy it.”
– By Kyle Wingfield
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251 comments Add your comment
JohnnyReb
March 14th, 2013
3:14 pm
HDB – nice try on the Mars rocket but the guys you list don’t even add up to one Maxine!
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
March 14th, 2013
3:15 pm
Obama caught zero Bin Ladens (Navy SEALS – Turkey – 1), Bush caught zero.
Obama gave orders to catch two Bin Ladens. Bush 0
Fixed it.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
March 14th, 2013
3:15 pm
You’re here early today ODD OWL.
Bars not open yet?
indigo
March 14th, 2013
3:15 pm
Tiberius – 12:59
There probably is a measure of truth is what you’re saying.
Unfortunatley, it would require probably triple the number of troops we have on the ground now and we just can’t afford to do this.
So, we either kill them with drones or just ignore them and hope they don’t eventually smuggle a nuclear device into our country.
I vote for the first option.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
March 14th, 2013
3:16 pm
“Obama gave orders to catch two Bin Ladens. Bush 0″
Obama gave orders to catch two Bin Ladens. Bush gave those same orders as well.
Fixed your typo, Cheesy.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
March 14th, 2013
3:16 pm
So electoral results do change over time, huh.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
March 14th, 2013
3:18 pm
Bars not open yet?
Southern Hospitality at its finest.
Matz
March 14th, 2013
3:18 pm
“I’m disappointed I did not get at least an amen on my proposal to put a bunch of the Liberal Left on a rocket to Mars.”
The real deficit here is love. Bless his heart. Let’s love him. That’s what Jesus would have us do.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
March 14th, 2013
3:19 pm
“Unfortunatley, it would require probably triple the number of troops we have on the ground now and we just can’t afford to do this.
So, we either kill them with drones or just ignore them and hope they don’t eventually smuggle a nuclear device into our country.
I vote for the first option.”
And you doom this nation to a constant war against terrorism for all time, Indigo. The boots on the ground are largely volunteers (and I completely disagree with your assessment of triple the number – we can actually do it with LESS than what we have now). They know the mission is worth their efforts.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
March 14th, 2013
3:20 pm
So electoral results do change over time, huh.
Yes.
We are already winning elections and when you look at the growing minority population and younger crowd that overwhelmingly vote Democrat.
Its not gonna get any better. Its only going to get worse.
JohnnyReb
March 14th, 2013
3:20 pm
Gotta go take care of my honey does. Thanks and bye.
HDB
March 14th, 2013
3:21 pm
JohnnyReb
March 14th, 2013
3:14 pm
If you want to go there….let the con-captain be Michele Bachmann….she’ll count TRIPLE!!
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
March 14th, 2013
3:21 pm
“Southern Hospitality at its finest.”
Says the poster who dismisses half the country solely because he doesn’t agree with their choice for President.
independent thinker
March 14th, 2013
3:22 pm
Funny how most of the resident cons here cannot and will not digest the criticisms of 60 years of Republican failures in foreign policy and wars that Kyle has the integrity and backbone to lay out for them. (surprised I agree 100% with this post.)This is truly the party of ignorance and stupidity and dedication to lining the pockets of the military industrial establishment. Eisenhower sure got it right.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
March 14th, 2013
3:22 pm
Dow hits 10-day winning streak
Stocks climbed Thursday, with the Dow closing higher for the 10th consecutive session and the S&P 500 within striking distance of its all-time closing high, as investors cheered a better-than-expected weekly jobless claims report.
THANK YOU OBAMA !!!!
HDB
March 14th, 2013
3:22 pm
JohnnyReb
March 14th, 2013
3:14 pm
….and throw in Steve King (IA) as the navigator…….
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
March 14th, 2013
3:23 pm
Says the poster who dismisses half the country solely because he doesn’t agree with their choice for President.
Says the poster who insults others by questioning whether they have been drinking already.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
March 14th, 2013
3:24 pm
Cheesy has now won the award for the most repetitively ignorant post for this month on Kyle’s blog at 3:22.
Dusty
March 14th, 2013
3:26 pm
OH dear oh dear libs moan and moan
About whose gonna “drone & drone”..
So Cheesy decides to jump on marriage,
Something no one mentioned or disparaged.
It’s hit and run and deja vu.
Cheesys got to try & distract you.
(Just part of his job.)
.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
March 14th, 2013
3:26 pm
The libs said that they had a permanent majority in 2008, how’d that work out?
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
March 14th, 2013
3:30 pm
cheesy can’t quite remember what Occupy Wall Street was all about.
Or it never did know.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
March 14th, 2013
3:30 pm
I was hoping for a credible link, and was disappointed Finn thought he could get away with Alternet again.
One would think such an important story, if credible, would have been reported by the Washington Post and Wall Street Journal.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
March 14th, 2013
3:31 pm
SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): The GOP of old has grown stale and moss-covered. I don’t think we need to name any names, do we? Our party is encumbered by an inconsistent approach to freedom. The new GOP will need to embrace liberty in both the economic and the personal sphere. If we’re going to have a Republican party that can win, liberty needs to be the backbone of the GOP. We must have a message that is broad, our vision must be broad, and that vision must be based on freedom.
There are millions of Americans, young and old, native and immigrant, black, white and brown, who simply seek to live free, to practice a religion, free to choose where their kids go to school, free to choose their own health care, free to keep the fruits of their labor, free to live without government constantly being on their back. I will stand for them. I will stand for you. I will stand for our prosperity and our freedom, and I ask everyone who values liberty to stand with me. Thank you. God bless America.
Agreed.
Dusty
March 14th, 2013
3:33 pm
Thank you Obama for not playing with the DOW.
We know you didn’t because you don’t know how..
Take credit if you will and that’s OK!
As long as you DON’T mess it up in your usual way.
HDB
March 14th, 2013
3:33 pm
Tiberius – pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
March 14th, 2013
3:16 pm
Tibbi….Bush basically said this:
“I don’t know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don’t care. It’s not that important. It’s not our priority” — 3/13/02
Add to that the relationship that the Bushes had with the bin Ladens as part of the Carlyle Group…….you can see why GWB didn’t make OBL a priority (can you say “conflict of interest”??)……….
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
March 14th, 2013
3:34 pm
“Just because I believe that states should have the right to define marriage in a traditional way does not make me a bigot,” he said.
“The people who are actually close-minded in American politics are the people that love to preach about the certainty of science in regards to our climate, but ignore the absolute fact that science has proven that life begins at conception,” Rubio added.
Agreed.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
March 14th, 2013
3:37 pm
Dusty, perhaps one of your finest efforts!
HDB
March 14th, 2013
3:38 pm
Aesop’s Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
March 14th, 2013
3:31 pm
“There are millions of Americans, young and old, native and immigrant, black, white and brown, who simply seek to live free, to practice a religion, free to choose where their kids go to school, free to choose their own health care, free to keep the fruits of their labor, free to live without government constantly being on their back. I will stand for them.”
Kinda hard to believe when Rand Paul HIMSELF said that he was AGAINST the Civil Rights Act stating that “it’s about controlling property”!!
Which is it???
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/01/09/400521/rand-paul-explains-his-familys-opposition-to-civil-rights-act-its-about-controlling-property/
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
March 14th, 2013
3:39 pm
“Tibbi….Bush basically said this:
“I don’t know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don’t care. It’s not that important. It’s not our priority” — 3/13/02″
And that is changing the argument to suit your preconceived notions, HDB. “Not a priority” doesn’t mean orders were not given or that efforts were not made.
Now, if you can show me where President Incompetent issued specific instructions to ramp-up those earlier standing orders of Bush, feel free to do so in order to bolster your case. Otherwise, it was just a matter of time that someone like Bin Laden would get caught, and Obama just happened to be in office when it occurred.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
March 14th, 2013
3:41 pm
““There are millions of Americans, young and old, native and immigrant, black, white and brown, who simply seek to live free, to practice a religion, free to choose where their kids go to school, free to choose their own health care, free to keep the fruits of their labor, free to live without government constantly being on their back. I will stand for them.”
Kinda hard to believe when Rand Paul HIMSELF said that he was AGAINST the Civil Rights Act stating that “it’s about controlling property”!!
Which is it???”
Or maybe he’s just satisfied with the original wording of the U.S. Constitution, and believes the the Civil Rights Act is superfluous.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
March 14th, 2013
3:42 pm
Continued idiocy from HDB
He swallows those conspiracy theories willingly.
But as far as conspiracies go
He has no interest in Tony Rezko
(How’d I do, Dusty?)
Dusty
March 14th, 2013
3:50 pm
Poor HDB, late to the fight,
Spinning his two cents against the “right”
So President Bush was not a Navy Seal!!.
Come on, HDB, let’s get real!!
Bush gave the orders and got the chase going
A fact very true in spite of your moaning.
HDB
March 14th, 2013
3:52 pm
Tiberius – pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
March 14th, 2013
3:41 pm
‘Or maybe he’s just satisfied with the original wording of the U.S. Constitution, and believes the the Civil Rights Act is superfluous.”
If that were the case, why did the Dred Scott decision lead to the 14th Amendment….
Article 1, Section 2, Paragraph 3 of the Constitution state this:
“Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.”
This led to the 13th Amendment……
The Constitution also permiteed the selling of slaves: Article 1, Section 9:
“The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.”
Remember, the Constitution did NOT consider people of color has HUMAN BEINGS!! FAR from superflous, Tibbi……
HDB
March 14th, 2013
3:57 pm
Dusty
March 14th, 2013
3:50 pm
Got one for you too, Dusty…..
Bush and bin Laden sitting at a table…
bin Laden asked Bush “Is your boy able?”
Bush told bin Laden…”won’t be if we’re paid”
Undercover payments equals justice delayed!
Bush ultimately left town…
When the “black guy” came around….
Had the intelligence that Bush didn’t have….
Found OBL…and gave him a watery grave!
Many didn’t like it when the black guy came around…
..but he’s much better than Bush the clown!!
MarkV
March 14th, 2013
3:57 pm
Bush gave the orders and got the chase going
Unfortunately not succeeding.
indigo
March 14th, 2013
4:01 pm
Tiberius – 3:19 “and you doom this nation to a constant war against terriorism”
Are you saying that if we just be nice to those murderous terriorists, they will just go away and leave us alone?
Was 9/11 all our fault?
HDB
March 14th, 2013
4:03 pm
…and don’t forget ARBUSTO!!
“It was later revealed that Bath made an investment of $50,000 while representing Salem bin Laden of the Saudi Binladin Group. This fact became controversial after the September 11, 2001 attacks due to Salem bin Laden being an older, half-brother of Osama bin Laden, who is alleged to have planned and financed the attacks.”
For some, inconspiracy theory lies a modicum of TRUTH!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbusto_Energy
Dusty
March 14th, 2013
4:07 pm
You did good, dear Barry Bailout,
I’m proud of you, without a doubt!
Keep on going ’cause I’ve got to go
Slice the ham and roll the dough!
Burger KIng would be just right
but I’m THE queen of the kitchen tonight.
So it’s ham and biscuits and lotsa good stuff,
And I wish you well (if things get rough!)
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
March 14th, 2013
4:09 pm
“If that were the case, why did the Dred Scott decision lead to the 14th Amendment….”
Improper 19th century thinking.
“Article 1, Section 2, Paragraph 3 of the Constitution state this:
“Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.”
Not all servants were people of color, HDB. The Constitution references FREE persons. Again, a product of 18th century thinking which was wrong, but an amendment wasn’t needed; wording simply had to be deleted.
“The Constitution also permiteed the selling of slaves: Article 1, Section 9:
“The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.”
“Remember, the Constitution did NOT consider people of color has HUMAN BEINGS!!”
Absolutely, 100% incorrect, HDB.
There is no mention of “people of color” in the Constitution.
Dusty
March 14th, 2013
4:14 pm
HDB
I don’t care who is white, black or brown.
But it is a shame that you are such a bigoted clown.
You think that everyone is just like you.
Fortunately, that is not true.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
March 14th, 2013
4:14 pm
“Are you saying that if we just be nice to those murderous terriorists, they will just go away and leave us alone?”
Why do you persist in being so damned dense, Indigo? I have suggested nothing of the sort. If you cannot debate the points I have made, then just stop trying.
“Was 9/11 all our fault?”
Second dumbest post next to Cheesy’s. However, our insistence on interfering in the Middle East is certainly grounds for some terrorists to act the way they do. We are not blameless in that regard, but our interference wouldn’t rise to the level of their angst if they were in a more enlightened and tolerant country.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
March 14th, 2013
4:19 pm
Finn, if you want to sucker folks into clicking on your bogus Alternet links, you should hide them behind a tinyurl or something similar.
Dusty
March 14th, 2013
4:19 pm
MarkV
You can’t have an ending without a beginning.
The good start led to the ultimate winning.
Bye…
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
March 14th, 2013
4:22 pm
The anti-antiterror leftards were sad that Our President Bush didn’t pump their hero OBL up by making sure everyone knew he was our #1 priority and the biggest baddest threat out there.
Idiots.
These are the same morons who don’t understand why He didn’t run out of the classroom like his hair was on fire when he was informed of the second attack on the WTC.
Progs: No common sense at all.
@@
March 14th, 2013
4:24 pm
cheesy can’t quite remember what Occupy Wall Street was all about.
I’ll say!!!!
The Occupy movement has also reinvigorated a two-year crusade for student loan forgiveness that Robert Applebaum, a lawyer, launched in 2009. Applebaum’s proposal called for forgiving all student debt as a means of economic stimulus, and economists panned it: Justin Wolfers, an associate professor of business and public policy at the University of Pennsylvania, wrote on the popular Freakonomics blog that it was the “Worst. Idea. Ever.” But Applebaum’s petition eventually gained more than 650,000 signatures, and a version posted to the White House’s “We the People” petition site gathered more than 30,000 and received an official written response.
“We agree that reducing the burden of student loans is an effective way to stimulate the economy and save taxpayer dollars,” Roberto Rodriguez, a special assistant to the president for education policy, wrote.
The response went on to tout the Obama administration’s plan to ease repayment for some borrowers.
.
.
.
So far, Applebaum at least is willing to give the president the benefit of the doubt. The administration’s proposed loan changes are modest when compared with his call, echoed by many Occupy protesters, to eliminate student debt entirely. “It really doesn’t do much to help anyone,” Applebaum says of the new initiative. “That’s not, in my opinion, because the president doesn’t want to do more. It’s that he can’t do more. There’s only so much he can do on his own.”
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2011/11/15/occupy-protests-focusing-increasingly-student-debt
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
March 14th, 2013
4:33 pm
“what Occupy Wall Street was all about”
———————-
free stuff
MarkV
March 14th, 2013
4:33 pm
Dusty @ 4:19 pm
“You can’t have an ending without a beginning.
The good start led to the ultimate winning”
Going back to prose: Tell that, Dusty, to every Olympic (or other) athlete who started the event well and then failed, or to those who started in the back and finished first.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
March 14th, 2013
4:39 pm
When it comes to getting bin Laden, Obozo ran home from third base and thought he hit a home run.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
March 14th, 2013
4:41 pm
After the Dow hit a 10-day winning streak on Thursday—for the first time since 1996—investors’ message is clear: the Great Recession may finally be ending.
THANK YOU OBAMA !!!!
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
March 14th, 2013
4:43 pm
Weakest recovery ever. I’m supposed to be thankful that it took Obozo four years to get the Dow back where it was before the recession? Without accounting for inflation, that is?