CPAC 2013: Where does conservative military policy go from here?
Sen. Rand Paul’s 13-hour filibuster last week, in which he demanded the Obama administration clarify if it believes it has the authority to kill Americans on U.S. soil with drones, sparked blowback from some of his fellow Republicans, including Sen. John McCain. That has sparked debate about whether the GOP is moving in a new direction regarding foreign and military policy, or drifting apart into two, ahem, warring camps.
But foreign-policy and military experts speaking on a Thursday morning panel at the American Conservative Union’s CPAC conference sounded a relatively consistent line of thinking, albeit more about the use of force overseas while largely staying away from the topic of domestic drones.
“The proper natural end of war is your peace, the peace according to you, the peace you want,” said Angelo Codevilla, professor of international relations at Boston University. “Victory is that achievement. And defeat is in fact letting the enemy achieve his version of peace. That is what war is all about.
“Our bipartisan leaders for the past generation have forgotten that fundamental truth. So they have engaged us in a variety of enterprises around the world without knowing what they are fighting for and what they want to achieve. … They have deprived us of the proper product [of war]. This country has no peace right now. And the lack of peace is eating away at us.”
Rep. Tom Cotton, a Republican from Arkansas and veteran of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, sounded a similar note. “Wars are not movies. They do not end. They are won or they are lost,” he said. “We should fight anywhere, but we should not fight everywhere.”
Cotton also criticized the Obama administration’s decision to try the recently captured son-in-law of Osama bin Laden, Sulaiman Abu Ghaith, in federal court rather than holding him at Guantanamo Bay — in the prison President Obama hasn’t closed despite his 2008 campaign rhetoric about the need to do so — so that the military could interrogate him at length and try him in a military tribunal.
“It’s possible, I suppose, that we had exploited him for all intelligence value in just the few hours we had him” under military custody, Cotton said. But he noted it took far longer for the U.S. to learn from 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed about the courier whose presence ultimately led Navy SEALs to Osama bin Laden’s hideout in Pakistan.
Cotton’s comments echoed remarks Georgia’s Sen. Saxby Chambliss made to me Wednesday in his office, when he called a federal-court trial for Abu Ghaith “a huge mistake.”
“This is not an ordinary terrorist, it’s an enemy combatant,” Chambliss said. Yet, “he’ll be tried as an ordinary bank robber would be.”
In any case, the notion that America should engage in nation-building abroad came in for rough criticism from the CPAC panelists. Rep. Louie Goehmert of Texas recalled how it took little time and few soldiers to come to the brink of victory in Afghanistan, citing the help of the Northern Alliance.
“They fought the Taliban and defeated them for us,” Goehmert said. “We had less than 500 American soldiers … in Afghanistan when we defeated the Taliban because the Northern Alliance did our work. That was the beginning of the very end for the Taliban until — after we won — we sent in tens of thousands of troops in to occupy it.”
– By Kyle Wingfield
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251 comments Add your comment
JohnnyReb
March 14th, 2013
1:17 pm
When, oh when, I suppose never, will the Left stop acting like Obama’s win was a mandate. Some grand indicator of the Country’s pulse and wishes?
The election results was 26 states for Barry, 24 for Romney, and Obama won by 5 million popular votes. That’s about the population size of metro Atlanta.
Yes Obama won. But, almost as many are against him as for him.
So, you Lefties can keep spouting off if it makes you fell better. But the truth is, the last butt whipping at the polls was the 2010 mid-terms and we know how historic those results.
Del
March 14th, 2013
1:18 pm
Cheesy, prognosticates that Hillary will be elected president in 2016. Hillary will be over the hill pushing age 70 in 2016 and in that election year with the Obama economy in shambles the Democrats probably won’t be too popular. The Democrats candidate depth chart is pretty skinny with the Hill and shotgun Joe, maybe Dennis Kucinich and Maxine Waters.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
March 14th, 2013
1:19 pm
Finn: Ronald Reagan…George H. W. Bush…Iran…Nicaragua
——–
His messiah is such a pathetic failure that he has to remain stuck in the past, just to maintain his sanity.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
March 14th, 2013
1:23 pm
I have no compunctions with trying terrorists in federal court, matters none to me. We have bigger fish to fry. But I do like the idea of sticking them in a Supermax for life and not telling them which way meccah is, hahahahahaha.
FT.
HDB
March 14th, 2013
1:24 pm
JohnnyReb
March 14th, 2013
12:48 pm
“The fact that other terrorists have been tried in federal courts is not the point. The handling of combatants is very different versus treating them like citizen criminals. There’s your clue – citizen.
They are not citizens, do not deserve the protection that entails, and should be pushed to within one breath of life to get as much info from them as possible.
They aren’t your third grade classmate grown up to be a bank robber. They are at war with us.”
Interesting agin….since OBL’s son-in-law has been giving up information since his capture….that he is being kept in a maximum-security prison by federal marshals AND the FBI….
Also here’s your question: Are you basically saying that NO foreigners should be given constitutional protection if they are charged under American law?? What about those foreign nationals that have been executed in the US since 1976? If this is a nation of LAWS, should said laws cover ALL in its jurisdiction? The FBI is also charged with capturing INTERNATIONAL criminals when working with foreign authorities and the military!! Rememberm OBL’s son-in-law was captured in concert with a foreign GOVERNMENT’S (Turkey) assistance…….
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
March 14th, 2013
1:29 pm
“Also here’s your question: Are you basically saying that NO foreigners should be given constitutional protection if they are charged under American law??”
No, they should be given Constitutional protection if they violate our laws while on American soil.
If they are waging a war of terror against Americans on foreign soil, they should not enjoy Constitutional protections.
“since OBL’s son-in-law has been giving up information since his capture”
There is little evidence he is giving up information to U.S. authorities. Most, if not all, was given to his captors, not us.
JohnnyReb
March 14th, 2013
1:29 pm
HDB – it’s your champion who is making every effort to turn a war into civilian law enforcement. All to satisfy a few screamers from his base who can’t get over the water boarding.
There is a difference between a criminal and an enemy combatant. The military should handle the combatants, the FBI the criminals. It’s really simple; would work really well, but like most logical, moral, and ethically correct history, the Left wants to overturn it.
independent thinker
March 14th, 2013
1:36 pm
“”"”"”"”"CPAC is not just about serious speechmaking and politicking. This year’s conference, for example, features a panel called : “How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Plastic Water Bottles, Fracking, Genetically Modified Food and Big Gulp Sodas,” and yet another called “Getting Hollywood Right”. And the nightlife should prove interesting too: on Friday, for example, CPAC is hosting what it’s calling the Obama Zombie Apocalypse Party. The motto: “First they come for your brains, then they come for your ballots.”"”"”"”"”"”"”
I did not make this up. I couldn’t if I tried
From ABC News-
I wonder if Romney is hosting the Obama Zombie Apacalypse Party.
Finn McCool (the system isn't broken; it's fixed)
March 14th, 2013
1:52 pm
ouch!
Hypocrites: At Least 14 GOP Congress Members Who Oppose Government Borrowing Carry Big Debts of Their Own
alternet.org
MarkV
March 14th, 2013
1:54 pm
“The election results was 26 states for Barry, 24 for Romney, and Obama won by 5 million popular votes. That’s about the population size of metro Atlanta.”
Still better than 2.4 million popular votes by which Bush won over Kerry, and even much better than losing by 0.5 million, as Bush did to Gore.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
March 14th, 2013
1:55 pm
“Hypocrites: At Least 14 GOP Congress Members Who Oppose Government Borrowing Carry Big Debts of Their Own”
Calling out people who borrow on their OWN income is simply stupid, Finn.
Not surprising that you can’t see the difference.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
March 14th, 2013
1:56 pm
“Still better than 2.4 million popular votes by which Bush won over Kerry, and even much better than losing by 0.5 million, as Bush did to Gore.”
Not the point he was making, MarkV, but do blather on . . .
Politico
March 14th, 2013
2:01 pm
Johnny
The number of states won or did not win would be more of relevant statement if all states had the same number of Electoral votes. Since they do not, it is basically a meaningless point.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
March 14th, 2013
2:03 pm
“The election results was 26 states for Barry, 24 for Romney, and Obama won by 5 million popular votes. That’s about the population size of metro Atlanta.”
And electorally it was much much worse.
Which is how we elect a President.
Why do you think Republicans are trying to change it from a winner take all system with EC votes in states ?
Because they know under the current model they have no chance.
The Rural and Suburban white vote isn’t enough anymore.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
March 14th, 2013
2:05 pm
The number of states won or did not win would be more of relevant statement if all states had the same number of Electoral votes. Since they do not, it is basically a meaningless point.
Exactly right.
If we elected a President on number of states won.
Id say pretty close election.
But we dont and never will.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
March 14th, 2013
2:06 pm
Getting back to the subject of Kyle’s article, I think it’s a good thing that there are Republicans that are no longer in lock-step with the Bush Doctrine of occupation and nation building. Pretty telling that dinosaurs like McCain and Graham can’t seem to see the folly and waste of that policy.
If the people like Paul are doing it for electoral success or due to principles, it matters not to me.
So long as it changes to their way of thinking.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
March 14th, 2013
2:09 pm
“Why do you think Republicans are trying to change it from a winner take all system with EC votes in states ?”
Just as Democrats were trying to change it when they were on the short end of the stick, Cheesy.
But you probably forgot about all that wailing and moaning, didn’t you?
There is little difference between the two parties on many issues, but especially when it comes to rigging the system to get elected.
clem
March 14th, 2013
2:09 pm
time to kiss ryan good bye:
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/112654/paul-ryan-budget-2013-dc-press-corps-has-turned-him#
JohnnyReb
March 14th, 2013
2:10 pm
Politico and Chessy, you are missing my point. Regardless of how you cut it, there are almost as many against Obama as for him.
Yes he won. But I’m sick and tired of being sick and tired of reading the Left’s beating of the chest with outlandish remarks that the Country is against Republicans, etc. It’s simply not correct.
If Obama had won like Reagan you could have those claims. But that’s simply not the case.
It’s like gay rights. We can’t get away from it. Not because the country is for gay rights, but because media and entertainment is full of gay people. Thirty something states voted that marriage is between a man and a woman. My money is on the same results if re-voting was tomorrow.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
March 14th, 2013
2:14 pm
Thirty something states voted that marriage is between a man and a woman. My money is on the same results if re-voting was tomorrow.
Southern states yes. But with others no.
Look at the demographics. The younger generation could care less if gay people get married.
Almost everything you said was incorrect.
Yes he won. But I’m sick and tired of being sick and tired of reading the Left’s beating of the chest with outlandish remarks that the Country is against Republicans
The country is moving to the left and becoming more liberal. At the same time Republicans are moving to the right. Mostly because of the Gerrymandered districts that made it safe for them. Now their competition is from their right.
So they keep moving that way in order to win.
Politico
March 14th, 2013
2:15 pm
“Why do you think Republicans are trying to change it from a winner take all system with EC votes in states ?”
It seems the governors of OH, MI, PA, VA & WI decided that moving towards that type of system was not as politically advantageous for their own careers as it might be for the party on a national level. I’m sure none of them stated it was for their own respective careers, however that initiative seems to be dying or has died in the states that the RNC was targeting post election.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
March 14th, 2013
2:15 pm
Regardless of how you cut it, there are almost as many against Obama as for him.
BTW when you get out of the South that ratio changes dramatically.
Politico
March 14th, 2013
2:19 pm
Johnny
Get over it. Romney lost by a landslide in the EC. Many on the AJC blogs were talking of a landslide by Romney, when it didn’t occur it has been nothing but excuse after excuse.
Bush was no less President in 2000 (even though some on the left cried like babies) because he had 500k less total votes. I’m confident that you were not out attempting to diminish his victory. So stop whining when someone wins by an EC landslide and almost 5M votes.
2014 & 2016 will be right around the corner.
Matz
March 14th, 2013
2:21 pm
JohnnyReb says: “But I’m sick and tired of being sick and tired of reading the Left’s beating of the chest with outlandish remarks that the Country is against Republicans, etc. It’s simply not correct.”
THANK YOU! I agree. I live in Georgia, surrounded by individuals, legislators, and public policy makers at all levels who are not against Republicans.
They are against individual freedoms, science, health, safety, logic, the environment, responsible development, separation of church & state, infrastructure, education, regulating polluters & monopolies, civil rights, feeding hungry children, and taxing people who have money to burn, but they’re totally NOT against Republicans!
Politico
March 14th, 2013
2:21 pm
Johnny
And if you are tired of hearing about something then why not stop coming up with all your… there is almost as many people this, the number of states that?
Your choice but it is whining and displaying of your butt hurt.
Scooter
March 14th, 2013
2:24 pm
“That was the beginning of the very end for the Taliban until — after we won — we sent in tens of thousands of troops in to occupy it.””
How many people were screaming about outsourcing OBL’s capture and losing him Tora Bora.
Rafe Hollister
March 14th, 2013
2:25 pm
The military guys are right, there is no peace unless there was a victory and a surrender. Just look at the conflicts that smolder today because both sides just quit fighting and tried to talk through their differences. Korea, Arab/Israeli, Pakistan/India, Iraq, and Brits/Argentina over the Falklands are all left unresolved as the fight was never finished. War is a terrible thing, but if started and you just get tired of all the death and expense and quit fighting, it seems both countries are then doomed to be constantly on guard for the next hundred years
Seems if you find the country provoked enough to engage in warfare, you had better stay out of it, unless you are prepared for no holds barred, all out effort to win the thing.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
March 14th, 2013
2:27 pm
“At the same time Republicans are moving to the right. Mostly because of the Gerrymandered districts that made it safe for them. Now their competition is from their right.”
This continues to be one of the dumbest statements made on Kyle’s blog.
Finn McCool (the system isn't broken; it's fixed)
March 14th, 2013
2:27 pm
If Obama had won like Reagan you could have those claims
You mean if he had done something as shameful as worked a deal with Iran to hold the hostages until after the election? An act which led directly to the Iran arm sales to fund the Contras.
Obama wouldn’t stoop to the level of Reagan to win an election.
JohnnyReb
March 14th, 2013
2:27 pm
Chessy and Politico – take off the rose colored glasses.
You are still missing the point. The country is too divided, a lot due to Obama’s mouth, to be pushing the changes Obama wants to make. You want them because you agree. My side does not want them. To think you are a majority is fooling yourself.
I’m not whinning. Obama won. I know that. But not sufficiently to justify what he wants to do or all the BS propaganda coming from your side.
BTW – congratulation on having that ignornat fat boy Moore on your side. I understand he wants to make the raw photos of the kids from the school shooting public. A real winner there.
JohnnyReb
March 14th, 2013
2:30 pm
“Obama wouldn’t stoop to the level of Reagan to win an election.”
Finn – I can eat a can of alphabet soup and crap a better post than that. Obama and his lackies are political thugs. Every election Barry has won has been from destroying his opponents with lies.
@@
March 14th, 2013
2:31 pm
Glean all the information he has to offer (I don’t think he’s got much)….then cut out his tongue “peace” by “peace”….send him back to Iran.
We achieved our goal in Afghanistan pretty quickly. Why Obama decided to send more troops has always puzzled me. Maybe it’s because he watched Bush get criticized for not sending enough into Iraq. To avoid the same criticism, he sends too many into Afghanistan.
Our full exit from Afghanistan is long overdue.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
March 14th, 2013
2:31 pm
You are still missing the point. The country is too divided
Not really. In the South Obama is hated.
Outside the South his numbers go way way up.
Finn McCool (the system isn't broken; it's fixed)
March 14th, 2013
2:31 pm
I think it’s a good thing that there are Republicans that are no longer in lock-step with the Bush Doctrine of occupation and nation building
Dick Cheney’s ears just perked up. Watch your back.
ODD OWL
March 14th, 2013
2:32 pm
The most dangerous threat to America are the neo-cons and tea party Republicans… They have embraced economic austerity which will cause the American economy to go into a double dip recession like most of Europe… Britain is in a triple dip recession… Misery loves company and the Republicans love to spread the misery around…
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
March 14th, 2013
2:32 pm
This continues to be one of the dumbest statements made on Kyle’s blog.
Your dubious opinion is noted.
The statement however is very very true.
JohnnyReb
March 14th, 2013
2:33 pm
“Gerrnandered districts…”
Does that mean legally and duely elected officials redrawing voting districts in accordance with law, and in the case of certain Southern States with approval of the Justice Department?
Or, is that in fact the Left whinning?
Politico
March 14th, 2013
2:34 pm
Johnny
Be mad at the Republicans and who they put up. They couldn’t beat a mediocre at best president.
And you need to take off your own glasses and maybe even take a math class.
When someone wins an election with 51% of the vote, that is a majority. You can think otherwise all you like but it will not change anything.
And so you know, I do not advocate all of Obama’s policies and initiatives nor have I ever said I did.
Home Depot has some smaller brushes if you are not aware of that. Those broad (wide) brushes you so fondly use do a poor job for the most part.
Dusty
March 14th, 2013
2:34 pm
When did Kyle turn this blog over to the repetetive liberals? It is getting to be about as interesting as mud cakes. No wonder Georgia (Polifore) is writing movie reviews. Gives this blog a few new lines if nothing else.
The country is not in good shape. I don’t need someone telling me 24/7 how wonderful it is being run It isn’t. Hasn’t been for four years. Bush was a strong steady president and we need another one like him. He’d be smart enough to know it is time to leave Afghanistan and get on with smart America, the one we once had. He’d also be smart enough to work with Congress.
So run your liberal ratlle trap retinue on the stage and applaud. Won’t work and Americans know it. You voted for a loser and you got one. Our only hope is…… we learned something.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
March 14th, 2013
2:34 pm
Finn – I can eat a can of alphabet soup and crap a better post than that. Obama and his lackies are political thugs. Every election Barry has won has been from destroying his opponents with lies.
Notice he didn’t dispute what you said about Reagan.
Now think if Obama had done anything close to that.
Oh the outrage.
Matz
March 14th, 2013
2:35 pm
The country is too divided.
I agree. I think we should be nicer to each other. You know, stop being so hateful and selfish, and look at the bigger picture.
Politico
March 14th, 2013
2:35 pm
“Our full exit from Afghanistan is long overdue”
yes it is
Finn McCool (the system isn't broken; it's fixed)
March 14th, 2013
2:35 pm
I understand he wants to make the raw photos of the kids from the school shooting public.
Most people couldn’t stomach the picture of the little boy with his entire jaw blown clean off.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
March 14th, 2013
2:36 pm
Finn: You mean if he had done something as shameful as worked a deal with Iran to hold the hostages until after the election
——-
Link please.
Politico
March 14th, 2013
2:37 pm
“You voted for a loser and you got one”
yes you did vote for McCain and Romney…….. and think the Democrats have been in charge of the House for the last 4 years
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
March 14th, 2013
2:37 pm
“Bush was no less President in 2000 (even though some on the left cried like babies) because he had 500k less total votes. I’m confident that you were not out attempting to diminish his victory.”
Johnny Reb is not trying to make either point, Politico. But if it makes you feel better to change the argument, please continue to do so.
He is rightly making the argument that while you on the left continue to think that an electoral blowout is indicative of some far-reaching mandate, the fact remains that President Incompetent is still largely a 50-50 proposition to the entirety of this country.
Finn McCool (the system isn't broken; it's fixed)
March 14th, 2013
2:38 pm
Bush ~ He’d be smart enough to know it is time to leave Afghanistan
Umm, i do believe he had the driver’s seat while the war was still going on…..am I missing something?
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
March 14th, 2013
2:39 pm
Does that mean legally and duely elected officials redrawing voting districts in accordance with law, and in the case of certain Southern States with approval of the Justice Department?
Yes it does. It also means the political reality of setting up those districts is that the competition comes from the right of them. So they have to move to the right to win.
That might play with the hicks in Peoria. But it wont win Nationally.
Politico
March 14th, 2013
2:41 pm
“He is rightly making the argument that while you on the left continue to think that an electoral blowout is indicative of some far-reaching mandate”
When you can show where I stated what you just said, then you wont be the liar you know yourself to be.
So that was “epic fail”
“Color me shocked”…………….
You have to love it when the little deputy steps in , squirt guns a blazing…………
Oh the “pourtage”………..
bwhahahahahahahaha
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
March 14th, 2013
2:41 pm
“Obama wouldn’t stoop to the level of Reagan to win an election.”
You’d have to first be upright in order to stoop, Finn.
Obama has been in the gutter since 2006.
And has never left it.