From Italy, your latest warning about the danger of having three (or four, or five . . .) political parties
Every time you think our political system produces too much gridlock, or that more political parties might somehow make things better, there’s a good chance some European country is holding an election whose results will prove you wrong.
This week, it’s Italy. If you didn’t notice what happened there, your 401(k) almost certainly did yesterday. Here’s the Wall Street Journal’s explanation of the election results there:
Early Tuesday, the left-wing coalition led by the Democratic Party’s Pier Luigi Bersani appeared to have gained a razor-thin victory in the lower house of parliament over the center-right coalition headed by Mr. Berlusconi — 29.6% to 29.2%, final data from the Interior Ministry showed. By leading the vote count in the lower house, the Democratic Party will automatically get the majority of 340 out 630 seats and, therefore, will likely receive the mandate to form a government.
The Senate, however, appeared headed for political impasse. The Democratic Party was the leading vote-getter in the upper house as well, by less than one percentage point. But its 31.6% result fails to provide its coalition with a majority to pass legislation. If a new government isn’t able to guarantee clear parliamentary support, Italians could return to the polls within months.
Battle lines were already being drawn late Monday. The Democratic Party declared slim victories in both houses, saying it will keep Italy’s interests in mind during this “very delicate situation for the country.” But a top official in Mr. Berlusconi’s center-right coalition said he is asking the country’s interior minister to call the vote a draw.
The apparent stalemate reflects the groundswell of support for former comedian Beppe Grillo’s Five-Star Movement. His throw-the-rascals-out platform drew enough voters to give it nearly as many votes as Italy’s mainstream coalitions — 25.6% in the lower house, according to final data from the Interior Ministry, making it the single largest party in that house.
Lest you miss some of the finer points of what happened there, I’ve put them in bold. The party that forms a government will not be the one that got the most votes — that would be the one led by a former comedian — but rather the one that had the largest coalition of parties. Historically, this coalition approach has not been a stable one. Returning to the polls in the coming months would simply mean the Democratic Party’s hold on power was about as long as Italy’s post-World War II average.
Nevertheless, even though this coalition got less than 30 percent of the votes, it gets 54 percent of the seats. In what way is that more representative of the will of the people than our system with two parties for which many people have to hold their noses when voting?
One does not have to embrace fully our own Republican or Democratic parties to recognize that precious little in the way of better governance would be accomplished by splitting up either or both of them. Better for people disappointed in one or the other to work to strengthen it.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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145 comments Add your comment
Coop
February 26th, 2013
9:59 am
Then I guess the Republican party should evolve into a true FISCAL CONSERVATIVE, socially liberal party. If not, then Democrats will be in power for a long time.
History has never been on the side of the socially conservative ideology. As the world becomes smaller, we become more diverse. This is a good thing in which all americans have rights and can contribute as a resource to this great country.
Cutty
February 26th, 2013
10:08 am
Same thing happened here in 2000. Gore won the popular vote and the Supreme Court elected Bush. Look how that turned out.
Aynie Sue
February 26th, 2013
10:10 am
The problem is not the number of political parties; it is the supremacy of local, selfish interests over the national interest. The solution is not two parties: just look how that’s working in the USA!
One of our two parties is an unstable, downright weird, alliance of the greedy rich and the excitable rabble. That party has no real platform except to oppose whatever the other party favors. It is incapable of governing, serves only to obstruct and delay measures in the national interest, and shows no respect for the rules of governance defined in our Constitution.
Cutty
February 26th, 2013
10:13 am
The cons in PA, MI, VA and elsewhere are trying to rig the election by issuing electoral college votes based on who won in a congressional district. Romney would’ve won the most electoral votes in MI, even though he got drubbed in the popular vote.
Cons scream about liberty, freedom, and the Constitution until their on the brink of irrelevancy then all that crap is thrown out the window.
East Cobb RINO, Inc (LLC)
February 26th, 2013
10:17 am
The only thing worse than the European style 3 or more party system is the Cuba/China/N Korea/etc single party system.
Dusty
February 26th, 2013
10:23 am
Cutty,
That turned out just great. In less than a year Bush had revitalized a demoralized country into a fighting machine. Kept America safe from then on. We all pulled together. Then came….u kno……
Ah ;the ITALIANS, how they do love to PARTY! I think they also like elections. Just have one every three or four months and celebrate!
Of course, Kyle is warning us that the talk of splitting parties has no favorable points. True the ride over the cliff has people running in all directions, NOT that more than two parties would help.
So let us not consider such a state unless the Dems wish to have the Dependents, the Semi dependents and Super dependents split as the three Helpless Parties.. Just a thought!!
Now pass the spghetti!!
Chip
February 26th, 2013
10:27 am
So Italy gets a government that can’t do anything and thus can’t grow or get in the way of the people. Isn’t that a good thing?
sailfish
February 26th, 2013
10:30 am
**Bush had revitalized a demoralized country into a fighting machine**
Revisionist history if I ever heard anything, 911 occurred on his watch! He then promply took us into a war of choice in iraq, one in which the french, the pope, myself and millions of others warned against but nooooo.
Hey, what about obama, has he not “kept us safe”?
As far as italian politics goes, I’ll take one clint eastwood spaghetti western please, thank you – to go.
Jefferson
February 26th, 2013
10:33 am
Fear monger !!!
Dusty
February 26th, 2013
10:34 am
Now comes AYNIE with her usual babble,
Today is “greedy rich and exctable rabble”"
Cutty got around to mentioning Romney
(Just a way to forget his persistent insomnia!)
He’s wishing for Bush to save us again.
“Cause Obama is only whistlin’ in the wind.
indigo
February 26th, 2013
10:35 am
Kyle, if things get much worse here politically, people will be so fed up they won’t much care that “precious little in the way of better governance” will be the result of three or more politcal parties.
MarkV
February 26th, 2013
10:35 am
Although I have little general liking for political systems with multiple parties, I wonder what fundamental objection can be made against people joining parties based on common interests, and then forming coalitions based on the compatibility of those interests. The primary objection seems to be the possibility of a political turmoil when formation of those coalitions is difficult to achieve. In view of the current political situation in the US, I am not sure that we can lecture others on the best way to govern.
Cutty
February 26th, 2013
10:37 am
bin Laden determined to strike.
‘Then came… u know….’
Bush reading My Pet Goat
Two unfunded wars
Unfunded Prescription Drug Bill (the socialism)
Economy crashed and job losses were averaging 700K per month on the Shrub’s last few months in office.
So to correct you Dusty, Bush kept us safe AFTER the worst terrorist attack in the country’s history.
Road Scholar
February 26th, 2013
10:37 am
Italia Democratic= Left; Burlusconni = right center
Does Italy have a “Tea Party”? A Grappa party?
Dusty: Mama Mia! Would the Repubs want to have the right of center ones, the further righties, and the “Bat-Sh*t crazy farthest right” members split into 3 further helpless parties? Just a thought!!!
indigo
February 26th, 2013
10:39 am
Dusty – 10:23
Have you been keeping up with recent events from that “fighting machine” country called Iraq?
Or, did you mean that “fighting machine” America, fighting to keep from going into another recession, thanks to your Republican political idols.
Dusty
February 26th, 2013
10:42 am
Poor sailfish, flipped a fin!,
Revisionais history, his personal sin!
Wants all credit just for Obama.
Who pushes us cliffside with so much kharma!
Centrist
February 26th, 2013
10:43 am
A glaring problem with a democracy or even a democratic republic like ours is that pandering to those who vote for transfer payments from producers to subsidize themselves works.
md
February 26th, 2013
10:46 am
“One of our two parties is an unstable, downright weird, alliance of the greedy rich and the excitable rabble.”
Coming from a party that just ran and won with an electorate that voted for others to pay what they themselves were unwilling to.
Now that is “rich”…………..
Dusty
February 26th, 2013
10:48 am
Poor Cutty and Scholar, off road again,
In Iraq we certainl\y did win!
But nothng since then sad to say.
‘Cause now we’re trying Obama’s way.
(Put that in your CLIFF notes next time you vote!)
md
February 26th, 2013
10:49 am
“Two unfunded wars
Unfunded Prescription Drug Bill (the socialism)”
And you are aware that neither of the 2 listed were ended the day the dems took over the gov’t in 2008……..right?
JDW
February 26th, 2013
10:50 am
@Kyle…”One does not have to embrace fully our own Republican or Democratic parties to recognize that precious little in the way of better governance would be accomplished by splitting up either or both of them. ”
Heck I don’t want to split them, I want to nuke them both. I would like non-partisan elections for every office. Do away with party primarys…have one primary top two vote getters, no matter which party they are in, face off.
I wouldn’t hurt my feelings if we did away with the whole Majority/Minority thing…one set of leadership that everyone votes on.
Centrist
February 26th, 2013
10:51 am
And the other half of voting for more self serving transfer payments (and lower/no taxes) is that such voters and their pandering politicians ignore exploding debt to pay for it.
JDW
February 26th, 2013
10:53 am
@Dusty…”In less than a year Bush had revitalized a demoralized country into a fighting machine.”
Yep those prior years of econmoic growth, balanced budget and safety were really demoralizing…could I have some more please?
Now you want to talk demoralizing…2001-2008…Thats demoralizing!
MarkV
February 26th, 2013
10:55 am
“A glaring problem with a democracy or even a democratic republic like ours is that pandering to those who vote for transfer payments from producers to subsidize themselves works.”
The usual garbage about “producers” and “receivers of payments,” where the “receivers” include people that clean your streets, flip your burgers, rotate your tires, and the “producers” include heads of the companies that try to get from the “receivers” as much of their meager income as possible.
Dusty
February 26th, 2013
10:59 am
INDIGO doesn’t know we won in Iraq.
No more dictator at our back.
Now Indig’s saying all is well!
That a sixteen trillion deficit is really swell..
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 26th, 2013
11:01 am
If the Republicans cave on the suckwester, I say we break them up into little pieces and fight over the scraps. Why not, if we can’t cut 1.5% of our spending, then let’s just become Italy.
southpaw
February 26th, 2013
11:01 am
Splitting up a party (or parties) could have one good effect–more gridlock. Less activity by government officials = less damage to the governed.
Dusty
February 26th, 2013
11:03 am
Now, MarkV, he’s really fine,
He’s got all workers in his mind.
Fair for one & fair for all.
But democracy lets some rise and some to fall.
Retired Soldier
February 26th, 2013
11:07 am
Exactly Dusty, this country provides equal oppertunity, not equal outcomes.
Dusty
February 26th, 2013
11:09 am
JDW, wouldn’t you know,
Hates Bush’s years of yore.
What made Democrats really hurt,
Voters thought Dems were totally inert!
They still ARE.. See that cliff over THAR!!
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 26th, 2013
11:10 am
‘In America, you have a right to be stupid, if you want to be… and we tolerate that,’ Kerry said to a packed Internet cafe in Berlin
He knows his political party well.
Dusty
February 26th, 2013
11:11 am
Right, RETIRED SOLDER. March on!
MarkV
February 26th, 2013
11:13 am
Dusty @ 11:03 am
“Fair for one & fair for all.
But democracy lets some rise and some to fall.”
I would not try to compete with Dusty’s poetic erudition, but it is worth noting that the concept of democracy is not about who does rise and who does fall.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 26th, 2013
11:17 am
Yeah, they didn’t have a wall, they didn’t have any guards, anybody could just hop aboard their bicycle and cross back forth over the border at will -
U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry recalled for young Germans Tuesday when he snuck out of the American embassy in divided postwar Berlin at age 12 for a clandestine bicycle ride into the Soviet-controlled eastern part of the city.
What ever happened to honesty?
MarkV
February 26th, 2013
11:24 am
John Kerry was 12 in 1955.
The Berlin Wall was erected in the night of August 13, 1961.
Matt321
February 26th, 2013
11:25 am
What is the problem here? In Italy, they had a vote. The coalition of parties that got the most votes, and thus has the best claim to a “mandate,” under the Italian system, is given bonus seats, so that it is given a chance to govern the country. In the Senate, the people had a vote, and the vote was not conclusive – there is no mandate, and governance may not be possible. If that proves to be the case, voters get a chance to examine why a coaltion couldn’t come together, and vote for new representation.
On the other hand, in the American system, how many people voted for a party/coaltion doesn’t matter at all, as we have geographic districts. Thus, though Democrats got roughly a million more votes for House members than Republicans, Republican still lead the House. Also, under the American system, we have elected a Democratic Senate, a Republican House, and a Democratic President that are completely incapable of working together or governing the country (forget who is at fault for that for a moment). Under the Italian system, we’d have new elections, until we could elect people who would agree to work together, pass budgets, and take care of our nation’s problems. In the American system, we can’t govern, budgets aren’t passed, problems go unsolved, we lurch from crisis to crisis, and praythat things don’t get too bad until the next election, 2 years later, when hopefully next time our crazy electoral system will produce a working government.
jconservative
February 26th, 2013
11:26 am
One might argue that the current House is a three party institution with a coalition of the Republican and the Tea Party loyalists temporarily in control.
bluecoat
February 26th, 2013
11:26 am
Repubs why are thou wroth? and why is thou countenance fallen?If thou doest well, shall thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well,defeat lieth at the door.
Dusty
February 26th, 2013
11:32 am
Dear MarkV
My erudiction
Is almost fiction!
Not to mention
My party affiliation!
I view Italians with some affection
‘Cause I’d love to be there on vacation.
But let democracy stand as is,
Our brotherhood must not fizz..
(PS..LIked your reading list. Want to follow up on some of them.)
bluecoat
February 26th, 2013
11:32 am
We would do well with a two party system.
MiltonMan
February 26th, 2013
11:33 am
“Same thing happened here in 2000. Gore won the popular vote and the Supreme Court elected Bush. Look how that turned out.”
Same ‘ole Lib Logic: refuse to identify the truth (CNN, LA Times, etc., etc.- all determined that Bush won) and keep that party line lie
Just Saying..
February 26th, 2013
11:35 am
I’d think the Tea Party would have already provided all the evidence required…
Retired Soldier
February 26th, 2013
11:35 am
One might argue that the current House is a three party institution with a coalition of ubber leftists and John Barrow Party in the minority and the Republicans in the majority.
Centrist
February 26th, 2013
11:36 am
@ MarkV – I was referring to transfer payments from a two income working families to healthy non-working folks – not CEO’s to the working class as you describe with your hyperbole.
The unemployed poor and working poor are cared for in America. But heaping more and more programs and benefits to gain their votes while debt explodes is a recipe for the disaster we now face. We have a huge untaxed underground economy on top of the 47% of the electorate who have no income tax obligation at all. Expanding the tax base with a consumption based tax would help with revenue a lot more than the most recent added tax on the few household that make more than $450K/yr in taxable income. But that logical step does not buy massive votes.
md
February 26th, 2013
11:36 am
” In the American system, we can’t govern, budgets aren’t passed, problems go unsolved, we lurch from crisis to crisis, and praythat things don’t get too bad until the next election, 2 years later, when hopefully next time our crazy electoral system will produce a working government.”
We go crisis to crisis BECAUSE of the periods where one party was allowed to do their own thing…….I’ll take the stalemate thanks.
Dusty
February 26th, 2013
11:37 am
ERUDITION!! wrong composition!! not erudiction awwww something or other..
getalife
February 26th, 2013
11:37 am
Italians voted no on austerity but we could use a choice to dissolve congress.
MarkV
February 26th, 2013
11:40 am
Dusty 11:32 am
Dear Dusty
I like your poems, and I like democracy, and I believe it can work in various forms.
(PS. Please let me know what you liked.)
Retired Soldier
February 26th, 2013
11:43 am
Well said Centrist.
HDB
February 26th, 2013
11:44 am
Retired Soldier
February 26th, 2013
11:07 am
“Exactly Dusty, this country provides equal opportunity,”
Depends on which segment you refer to…….this country doesn’t provide equal OPPORTUNITY to certain segments of society…although too many people still believe that falsity!! Ask those who are over 50 and looking for work….for one……
Skip
February 26th, 2013
11:45 am
Mark, the city was divided up before the wall was built.
Retired Soldier
February 26th, 2013
11:49 am
HDB-
The opportunity comes from birth, our life choices then dictate who wins and who loses, I agree at 50 it isn’t equal because of the choices made prior to 50.
md
February 26th, 2013
11:51 am
“Ask those who are over 50 and looking for work….for one……”
What opportunity do they not have??
Sounds like an excuse…….
Dusty
February 26th, 2013
11:52 am
TEA Party! What the Italians need is a VIno Party.
That would make them hale and hearty!
Maybe I should tell that Belasconi
And that would improve their macaroni!!
Which reminds me it’s time for lunch.
Get away from this crazee bunch! (Well, not ALL of ya!)
Jefferson
February 26th, 2013
12:03 pm
The GOP is losing seats due to their lack of credibility, next election they could be done. Depends how they handle the corner they have painted themselves into.
Rex Winn
February 26th, 2013
12:04 pm
All this fuss about having more political parties…I just wish we had a second one.
Matz
February 26th, 2013
12:09 pm
I think the point to realize here, is that the fewer choices we have, the better. Ideally, our whole nation will come under ONE PARTY RULE like here in Dear Ol’ Georgia. Things are going SO well here! Why, not only has Gov. Shady all but erased his $4Mil in personal debt (in less than one term, on $135K a year), but his good buddy Chip now runs our lil’ ol’ public TV network at a whopping $150K a year. (Cush gigs like that are for the appointed and anointed, you know, not the folks who’ve worked their tails off in the business/company.) Yes, we should be thankful that our tax dollars are being so well spent! Against our wishes, the one-party rule will also offer our tax dollars up to Mr. Blank and his new stadium, even though most of us cannot afford to attend the games.
But the dictatorial goodness does not stop there! Silly citizens think we have a voice in our own communities, but that is going away too, thanks to our new BIG DADDY GUBMINT knows as the GEORGIA GOP. With HB 170, 171, and 172, our Gopper Daddies will overrule the folks we elected to run Fulton County, setting the stage to usurp local control of the other 158 counties as well. And electing local school board reps and holding them accountable — also a thing of the past.
Soon, we’ll be free of those annoying campaign ads entirely, as the one party that matters gerrymanders their way into our neighborhoods and tells us what we will and will not accept from them. In the name of freedom. Because they hate “big government” that’s not them. YAY!
bluecoat
February 26th, 2013
12:10 pm
Retired- choices made before 50.How could you know the company you work for would be bought by some corporate raider like Romney?The pension fund raided,faithful employees laid off,and the companys work outsourced to some foreign corp.?
Junior Samples
February 26th, 2013
12:14 pm
Dusty was once from Nantucket,
Who kept all his rhymes in a bucket.
While he may be on a roll,
He’s still just a troll.
But he will always be simply a puppet.
MarkV
February 26th, 2013
12:16 pm
Skip @ 11:45 am
“Mark, the city was divided up before the wall was built.”
Skip, the city was divided. And you could cross the border of the sections.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 26th, 2013
12:24 pm
Let’s split up the Cons and see what happens. Come on, take a chance.
Real Athens
February 26th, 2013
12:26 pm
Dusty,
Only a damn fool would comment about Italians having never been there. Really, at the end of the day do you know about Italy?
Don't Tread
February 26th, 2013
12:31 pm
“and shows no respect for the rules of governance defined in our Constitution”… While Republicans are anything but perfect, that’s pretty rich, coming from a Democrat. You can type that with a straight face?
I say make it a rule that anyone who votes for or helps pass something that is unconstitutional gets kicked out for violating their oath of office, with no possibility of re-election or a fat pension. Sure there will be some bloodletting early on, but after a couple of rounds people would get it. “Is this constitutional?” should be the first question asked when considering a new law.
Rafe Hollister
February 26th, 2013
12:41 pm
HDB
I thought you were doing better since Barry assumed control away from the evil Dubyah. What happened?
Politico
February 26th, 2013
12:42 pm
Dusty
Seeing that any President’s first budget is already in place for him tell us exactly what Bush did from a troop numbers, training and weapon systems perspective.
This ought to be great blather, nonsense and hyperbole
zeke
February 26th, 2013
12:42 pm
A 3 party or more system would doom us to third world status! Of course, the democrats have us rushing headlong into that stupidity now! In 1992, Perot entered the race because he was an egotistical buffoon! Only thing he caused was to split the Conservative vote and allow a scumbag to get elected with about 43% of the vote! NO POLITICAL OFFICE SHOULD EVER BE FILLED WITHOUT THE CANDIDATE RECEIVING AT MINIMUM 50% +1 OF THE VOTE, except THAT OF PRESIDENT, WHICH IS CONTROLLED VERY LOGICALLY BY THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE!!!!
And no matter how many times you left wing liberals rant and rave that Bush lost, every imaginable way you came up to recount the vote, BUSH WON!!!! You even tried to count the “INTENT” of the voter! What idiots! Be Gone!
Politico
February 26th, 2013
12:47 pm
Zeke
I agree that some on the left cry about the 2000 election. Bush won.
As for 92, please post empirical evidence that had Perot not entered the race, Bush Sr would have won.
You are crying about that in the same manner that those on the left cry about 2000.
Bartender. Get zeke another shot of irony on the house. Make it two
HDB
February 26th, 2013
12:51 pm
Retired Soldier
February 26th, 2013
11:49 am
“HDB- The opportunity comes from birth, our life choices then dictate who wins and who loses, I agree at 50 it isn’t equal because of the choices made prior to 50.”
Oh really….age discrimination exists…(and don’t fall for the okey-doke that it doesn’t!)…..therefore, equal opportunity does NOT exist in all quarters of this nation………..
Rafe Hollister
February 26th, 2013
12:41 pm
I’m doing GREAT!! Doing MUCH better than I was under Bush…and now, I’m a homeOWNER!!
HDB
February 26th, 2013
12:58 pm
zeke
February 26th, 2013
12:42 pm
Actually, you’re wrong about the vote COUNT!
Al Gore (Democrat) 50,999,897 48.38%
George W. Bush (Republican) 50,456,002 47.87%
Vote difference: 503,895
http://www.fec.gov/pubrec/fe2000/prespop.htm
Bush won in the Electoral College 271-266 (with one elector in DC abstaining……)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_v._Gore
md
February 26th, 2013
12:59 pm
“Oh really….age discrimination exists…”
Sure does, I’d hire them all the time over the can’t get out of bed, call in Friday to party crowd………
It works both ways…….
HDB
February 26th, 2013
12:59 pm
zeke
February 26th, 2013
12:42 pm
Actually, you’re wrong about the vote COUNT!
Al Gore (Democrat) 50,999,897 48.38%
George W. Bush (Republican) 50,456,002 47.87%
Vote difference: 503,895
http://www.fec.gov/pubrec/fe2000/prespop.htm
Centrist
February 26th, 2013
1:02 pm
Jefferson posted “The GOP is losing seats due to their lack of credibility, next election they could be done.”
There is not a single recognized political pundit/prognosticator (including the left New York Times and Washington Post) who predict the Republicans won’t continue to hold the House of Representatives after the 2014 elections. Most predict more gains. Furthermore, the Democrats have no chance of regaining a super-majority of 60 seats in the Senate – they are much more likely to lose a few.
You’d think with this in mind, there would be some compromise – but alas, political posturing seems to work for most incumbents.
HDB
February 26th, 2013
1:03 pm
md
February 26th, 2013
12:59 pm
“Oh really….age discrimination exists…”
Sure does, I’d hire them all the time over the can’t get out of bed, call in Friday to party crowd………
“It works both ways…….”
Oh REALLY?? Tell that to someone who’s been LOOKING for work for extended periods and can’t get an interview because he’s over 50…..I know of several people who fall into that category!! Corporate America won’t pay someone who WANTS to work………
md
February 26th, 2013
1:08 pm
“Oh REALLY?? Tell that to someone who’s been LOOKING for work for extended periods and can’t get an interview because he’s over 50…..I know of several people who fall into that category!! Corporate America won’t pay someone who WANTS to work………”
There are 20+ million unemployed, they are NOT all over 50………..your claim is bogus. Sure, there are a lot of 50+ folks looking for work, but there are also a lot of 20+ folks looking for work along with a lot of 30+ and 40+ folks too………
indigo
February 26th, 2013
1:11 pm
Dusty – 10:59
Guess you haven’t been keeping up with news from Iraq.
That country is gradually falling apart, again.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 26th, 2013
1:13 pm
The Pinko Party is actually already a fractured group of many, many different constituencies, some which kill each other when away from Washington DC and some that, eck, “love”, ew, each other even in DC, but they are united together in one common cause, temporarily setting aside their inbred hatred of everything – spending up other people’s money.
When that runs out, who knows what will happen to them or what they will come after next.
You might want to pay attention to how bug eyed hysterical they have become over a 1.5% cut to thunquenchableable longing for your cash, imagine what would happen with a 100% cut.
md
February 26th, 2013
1:13 pm
According to the numbesr, the over 50 group is actually doing BETTER than the other unemployed:
http://bonddad.blogspot.com/2012/02/unemployment-rate-by-age.html
Jim
February 26th, 2013
1:15 pm
Although I can understand your desire to keep the republican party “whole”, I am, for the most part, done with voting for republicans just because it would help democrats to vote for another party.
The last two presidential elections, I have reluctantly voted for the republican candidate, for the most part, because not voting or voting for a third party candidate better ensured the election of the democrat nominee.
No more. Although a lot can change between now and 2016, I WILL NOT support another “wishy-washy” center-right republican nominee regardless of the impact on the election.
I am a fiscal conservative, not a republican. If the fiscal conservatives form another “circular firing squad” as they have for the last two presidential nominating process and allow another moderate to be nominated, they can do so without me. If republicans ever actually nominee a candidate who is supported by the majority of primary voters, then I may reconsider.
It is time for the Tea Party to become a third political party and leave the republican party to Karl Rove, John McClain, George Bush and the likes. Those type folks want to be popular by becoming democrats-lite, not me.
HDB
February 26th, 2013
1:15 pm
md
February 26th, 2013
1:08 pm
You’re moving the goalposts! I stated that age discrimination exists…..I did NOT state that there were NOT a lot of people not looking for work! The probability that people over 50 are having a harder time finding employment is greater than that of those under 50….THAT’s the point!!
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 26th, 2013
1:16 pm
“thunquenchableable” of course being “their unquenchable desire.”
IE sucks.
md
February 26th, 2013
1:19 pm
And that point would be wrong HDB……look at the chart.
And sure, some out there will prefer to hire younger folks, but as I said there are also some out there that prefer to hire older folks. The numbers state the young folks are having a much harder time…..must be all that discrimination…….
Peadawg
February 26th, 2013
1:19 pm
Not sure it’s the “2 party system” that people are complaining about. It’s that the 2 parties we currently have…for lack of a better word…suck.
Booger Fling
February 26th, 2013
1:20 pm
Why do we need a warning about three, four, or five political parties? We’ve really had just one political party in this country for many years and change is without doubt in need. Both Dems and Repubs are on the same team these days folks. Is it not obvious? Year after year the bills are passed no matter how loud the people yell no. Then one side gets to blame the other. Keeping up the rhetoric of us vs. them. Dem vs. Repub. All the while continuing to divide this country. Another political party is needed.
Rafe Hollister
February 26th, 2013
1:20 pm
HDB
Glad you are doing well! The over 50 problem is the number of applicants out there looking, due to the Obama economy. If you were the employer and had multiple equal candidates wanting the job, which would you hire? Most tend to prefer one they can retain the longest, what with the cost of training. Competition makes it tough to get hired for those on the margins, the young and inexperienced and the old and worn.
The way to improve the situation is to improve the economy and get it growing. Obama seems more interested in how we divide the pie, than in how we grow the pie, unfortunately.
Peadawg
February 26th, 2013
1:24 pm
We’re stuck with the far left and the far right. And if a party member strays anywhere close to the middle, they are effectively banished.
Rafe Hollister
February 26th, 2013
1:25 pm
That country is gradually falling apart, again
Seems contagious, we watch Europe do the same, and yet Barry moves to make us more like Europe everyday.
Retired Soldier
February 26th, 2013
1:35 pm
bluecoat-
By saving, by improving your education level as an adult, lots of ways. Anyone caught in that situation could have done what I did, switch careers.
HDB
February 26th, 2013
1:36 pm
md
February 26th, 2013
1:19 pm
“numbers state the young folks are having a much harder time…..”
Younger people have greater NUMBERS looking for work….so their VOLUME is the determinant!! Older workers, it’s their AGE that’s the qualifying number!!
Rafe Hollister
February 26th, 2013
1:20 pm
No argument there….but with the competition comes the experience factor. Retention and retraining are determining factors….but if you’ve noticed the preponderance of job listings want EXPERIENCE…..someone who can come in running!! As you stated…young and inexperienced vs. old and worn. Problem is…the “old and worn” has an experience level that employers are desiring…but when that person is over 50, they tend to shy away from that person………
Just my observation…………
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
February 26th, 2013
1:38 pm
Kyle, your warning is based on a false comparison to parliamentary government and our constitutional government.
We’d handle multiple parties just fine here.
breckenridge
February 26th, 2013
1:42 pm
We may see another 3rd party form shortly, but they’ll be impotent. That’s because the grand experiment of the GOP as a religious party has been a complete failure. And the writing is on the wall, fundamentalist religion is a complete loser for the party.
We Goldwater republicans are going to make a big push, we are going to kick the religious right out of the party. Once they get kicked to the curb, where they can lick their wounds and form…….oh call it the James Dobson party or something.
HDB
February 26th, 2013
1:42 pm
Rafe Hollister
February 26th, 2013
1:25 pm
“Seems contagious, we watch Europe do the same, and yet the GOP moves to make us more like Europe everyday.”
There…fixed your statement………
Austerity measures have put segments of Europe into a triple-dip recession!! During times of economic downturn, the government is the last-best hope of fostering the recovery!! The government is the only entity that can rapidly infuse capital into the economic system to arrest a recession. Government has the capability to deficit spend to expand the economy and arrest a recession when private industry can not! When the economy has recovered, THEN should the government retract and cut spending!! How did Reagan get this nation out of a recession?? Government SPENDING! Government contracted under Clinton because the private sector was doing well……..
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
February 26th, 2013
1:45 pm
HDB, the market today can hold out for very specific experience on systems that many older workers do not have.
It’s a buyers market which has almost nothing to do other age
HDB
February 26th, 2013
1:45 pm
breckenridge
February 26th, 2013
1:42 pm
“We Goldwater republicans are going to make a big push…..”
I’m hoping for more of the “Rockefeller/Weicker/Kemp/Brooke/Eisenhower” Republicans myself……
HDB
February 26th, 2013
1:48 pm
Tiberius – pulling the tail of the left AND right
February 26th, 2013
1:45 pm
Not quite, Tibbi…..older workers have comparable experiences that can transfer into multiple systems…even those with very specific requirements! At times, hiring managers hesitate to hire someone OLDER than they are…….
It is a buyer’s market….and what many are asking for, they are unwilling to buy…..
Just my opinion and observation………
HDB
February 26th, 2013
1:50 pm
Tibbi….one question: how many times have you seen an OLDER worker being asked to train HIS manager?? (Happened to me too many times……even when I had applied for the position myself!!)
getalife
February 26th, 2013
1:50 pm
Austerity failed badly and the voters are holding them accountable.
Yesterday, graham caved on defense cuts so now the house must surrender or die.
Check mate.
Get out of the way gop.
bluecoat
February 26th, 2013
1:52 pm
Once ‘inconceivable,’ Republican leaders sign pro-gay marriage brief.We want your vote.will we be hypocritical? YES.
Jefferson
February 26th, 2013
1:55 pm
Stick a fork in the GOP, the budget cuts are killing them.
md
February 26th, 2013
2:00 pm
Percentages are based off volume HDB, the young have more out there but also have a bigger percentage unemployed. In contrast, the over 50 crowd only have 5-6% unemployed……..
using your assumptions, one could say the young are being discriminated against as folks are hiring the older ones with more experience……
In the end, the economy just sucks for all demographics, but the over 50 crowd is NOT any different than the rest.
bluecoat
February 26th, 2013
2:03 pm
Goldwater gop.suggest you name your new party. Party Of Pharisees……
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 26th, 2013
2:18 pm
Wow, you can’t sneak anything past these dimwitocrats -
“There’s a cost to very significant stimulus — and that’s OK if the stimulus is a good investment — and I think a lot of what the Fed has done is a very, very good decision,” said Representative John Delaney, a Maryland Democrat and member of the House Financial Services Committee, where Bernanke testifies tomorrow. “Their actions right now are having diminishing returns and increasing the severity of this future loss that will be incurred as rates go up.”
4 years and what do we have to show for it – a Wall Street bubble. Nothing else, no growth, no employment, no revenue. And now the bill comes due and the libs are dumbstruck that China’s gonna charge interest.
I told you, a long time ago, the dummycrats hate us and intend to do grievous long term harm to our country and you wouldn’t listen. Now suck it up cause we’re going………….down.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 26th, 2013
2:29 pm
“I will not sign a plan that adds one dime to our deficits — either now or in the future,” Obama told a joint-session of Congress in September 2009. “I will not sign it if it adds one dime to the deficit, now or in the future, period.”
Obamacare will increase the long-term federal deficit by $6.2 trillion, according to a Government Accountability Office (GAO) report released today.
Let’s see here, how many times will 85 billion divide into this monstrosity?
MrLiberty
February 26th, 2013
2:47 pm
Yes, republicans and democrats have passed oppressive laws in all 50 states making it anywhere from difficult to unbelievably difficult for any other party to get its candidates on the ballot (let alone get elected). In Georgia, the last time a 3rd party candidate was able to qualify for the ballot to run for Congress was…..1935 !!!!! He was a Socialist(as both major parties now are).
Now that these two parties have things locked up, there is never a need for any principles. Big government politicians fill both parties quite well and principled small government types have no where to go. The fear mongering from both sides is quite obvious the closer we get to each election. “Yes, our candidate is the scum of the earth, but at least he isn’t a democrat/republican.” You’ve seen the commercials. No longer does anyone from either party offer up anything other than that they are not from the other party.
No wonder 50% of people don’t even bother to vote. Why should they. The government never changes, regardless of which party gets elected. That should be expected as the two parties are nearly the same. They both support big government, big empire, big police state, assassinating of US citizens without due process, bank bailouts, automaker bailouts, massive military spending, massive overseas empire, the failed war on drugs, income tax slavery, welfare (for their friends), welfare for seniors at the expense of future generations, government control of medicine (each in their own way), massive regulatory apparatus, the IRS, fiat /worthless paper money, deficit spending, all-encompassing surveillance state, and I could go on and on.
We either have representative democracy (with candidates that ACTUALLY represent constituents) or we have our current oligarchy where the two parties represent the status quo and those who profit from it.
Maybe we don’t need 50 different parties represented in congress, but it would be nice if this country could at least have two parties again. What we have now is clearly failing all americans.
getalife
February 26th, 2013
2:52 pm
This generation and congress failed to keep the modern day robber barons from robbing our treasury.
Our system is rigged for the wealthy and now your kids can’t make a decent living to leave your house.
You cons enabled them and should leave politics for the new generation to fix it.
Cherokee
February 26th, 2013
2:54 pm
http://ivn.us/editors-blog/2012/07/24/cbo-repealing-obamacare-would-actually-increase-the-deficit/
I realize that I’m spitting in the wind here, Aesop, trying to correct your mis-statements – but since you won’t provide a source – ever – here’s one that provides some facts about Obamacare.
I’m a little surprised that Kyle lets you steal other peoples work on an ongoing basis. ‘Spect you got tossed out of Bookman’s blog, right?
(Now, toss our your gratuitous insults – you are good at that…)
detritusUSA
February 26th, 2013
2:56 pm
Since we seem to be in to verse:
republicans have no heart and
have no soul
their creed is greed and
their god is gold.
getalife
February 26th, 2013
3:03 pm
When your kids have no chance to get a decent job to leave your house, who are you going to blame?
MrLiberty
February 26th, 2013
3:06 pm
Our last new major party came into being with the election of Abraham Lincoln in 1860. Back then, all you had to do was show up at the polling place with a completed ballot with the candidates names on it. Yeah, that’s all it took. Not so today. A great website that tracks just how horrible the laws are is ballotaccessnews.org (or google ballot access). A few years ago the great champion of liberty who keeps tabs on this site (Richard Winger) calculated what it would take for a new party to get their candidates on all the ballots in all 50 states for all federal offices (just federal, not state or local). The number was over 3 million signatures for a new party, but only about 15,000 total for the two major parties). In the old days, when a party had served out its useful time, it faded away. Today, they stick around like Herpes and the best you can hope for is that the worthless medicine the “other” party promises will keep the misery and the embarrassment down to a minimum until the outbreak subsides.
It is of little wonder that it takes a billionaire like Ross Perot to get any traction at all in this country. He warned us of the federal deficit when neither major party cared. Now that he is gone, they still don’t care and we are in even worse shape. It shouldn’t take a billionaire to change the political landscape, but thanks to ballot access laws, that is the best we can hope for. Even if there was a major change in the mindset of americans, the powers that be have made it impossible for anything to change in the one two-faced party that now rules.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 26th, 2013
3:12 pm
Pardon me but I think I’ll stick with the free Government Accounting Office Report instead of conjecture.
Obsess away, libbies.
JDW
February 26th, 2013
3:14 pm
@Tiberius…”your warning is based on a false comparison to parliamentary government and our constitutional government.”
I see our self appointed “Constitutional Authority” has returned. Off studying the Constitution I hope. Maybe you can help us out…yesterday some yahoo posted this bit of drivel…
“Oh, Aynie Sue, a little Constitutional education is in order, missy.
The House is required to pass a budget (actually, the Congress is, but we’ll get to that later). ”
Now as our self appointed “Constitutional Authority” you of course know that the Constitution does not mention a budget. It only talks about Appropriations which allocate money for spending. In fact it is not uncommon at all for items in a budget to never receive an Appropriation or for an item not in a budget to actually receive one, but of course you know that. Now as our resident self appointed Authority I am guessing you also know that the budget process is actually governed by a set of laws including the Accounting Act of 1921 and the Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974.
So tomorrow when you are shaving could you clue that yahoo in?
Cherokee
February 26th, 2013
3:19 pm
Too bad you’re so insecure in your beliefs that you don’t want the rest of us to read it….
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 26th, 2013
3:28 pm
Not all Cons are dumb as rocks:
And another one bites the dust. New Jersey Republican Gov. Chris Christie will announce later today that his state will accede to the Affordable Care Act’s provision to expand Medicare eligibility, the New Jersey Star-Ledger reports.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 26th, 2013
3:31 pm
4 years and what do we have to show for it – a Wall Street bubble.
What bubble has developed in the last 4 years?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 26th, 2013
3:32 pm
the dummycrats hate us
Nope, just you.
md
February 26th, 2013
4:00 pm
Might want to change sources since the one you are using Finn doesn’t know the difference between Medicare and Medicaid…….
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 26th, 2013
4:08 pm
ultra-conservatives do not see all the ways in which they, and other ultra-conservatives, rely all day every day on what other Americans have supplied for them. They actually believe that they built it all by themselves.
So for them the sequester is not a “self-inflicted wound.” It is justice. The sequester is not merely about protecting “special interests.” It is about the good people who pursued their self-interest successfully, got rich, and have acted “morally” in avoiding taxes that pay for public provisions by the government.
They are not merely trying to harm their own constituents just to hurt the president politically. Yes, they think hurting the president politically is moral, and they believe that any constituents they are hurting need to become more personally responsible. They see the sequester as serving that purpose.
alternet.org
Glenn
February 26th, 2013
4:12 pm
Its been mentioned but the problem with a two party system is the politicians will pander to their base before their constituents . It would seem that the party money comes before the voters . In this case both bases are out of touch with this country . I think the idea of more parties would be better if only to give centrists a voice . I think a fairly good example of this would be Israel where they have , or had before the last election , nine parties .
md
February 26th, 2013
4:22 pm
It’s human nature to form allegiances with those that think/act similar to oneself, so the number of parties is irrelevant……we could have zero parties and the misfits would still group up……
Jefferson
February 26th, 2013
4:43 pm
As always remember…
Reasonable people can come to reasonable conclusions under reasonable conditions, unless you are a republican.
Thomas Heyward Jr
February 26th, 2013
4:54 pm
The Republican Party plays a valuable role.
.
Without it………what would big Government progressives who are smart enough to be ashamed of being a progressive……….call themselves?
.
.
lol
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 26th, 2013
6:22 pm
HDB and other libs who blame austerity for Europe’s problems.
For the umpteenth time, Europe had no choice about embracing austerity, there was no one to loan them money, other than Germany. Germany has been more austere all along so they had an economy that would allow them to loan money to the EU brethren, but Merkel was smart in that she insisted on guarantees. She didn’t want to pour money down the rathole of more entitlements and more insolvency.
We are headed down the same road, where our creditors tell us what to do in order to borrow more money. We can avoid that by dealing with our pending insolvency now or wait and be told what to do.
Hillbilly D
February 26th, 2013
6:41 pm
Personally, I’m for a no party system. George Washington warned us about them in his Farewell Speech, even though it was a bit hypocritical of him, given his past actions.
Tundra Dude
February 26th, 2013
7:02 pm
From Italy, your latest warning about the danger of having three (or four, or five . . .) political parties
Yet, somehow my country (of birth) manages with 4 major and 2 minor parties…….
I’m guessing, in Europe, Asia, So. America, they’re writing about our dysfunctional 2-party system.
Tundra Dude
February 26th, 2013
7:17 pm
Mr. Liberty wrote, in part:
The government never changes, regardless of which party gets elected. That should be expected as the two parties are nearly the same.
Bill Clintons’ mentor must be smiling in his grave.
Carroll Quigley wrote in his book “Tragedy and Hope”:
“The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to doctrinaire and academic thinkers…Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can “throw the rascals out” at any election without leading to any profound or extreme shifts in policy.”
~mentor to Bill Clinton, prof at Georgetown University
md
February 26th, 2013
7:54 pm
“That should be expected as the two parties are nearly the same.”
Last I checked, at least one of them doesn’t believe in voting for others to pay higher taxes when everybody got a tax cut…….
Bruno
February 26th, 2013
9:18 pm
Last I checked, at least one of them doesn’t believe in voting for others to pay higher taxes when everybody got a tax cut…….
md–It’s kind of humorous watching the Libs fall over themselves because they won an election. In the meantime, our country is going to sh!t. I guess that’s what happens when you put children in charge.
Bruno
February 26th, 2013
9:36 pm
We are headed down the same road, where our creditors tell us what to do in order to borrow more money. We can avoid that by dealing with our pending insolvency now or wait and be told what to do.
Rafe–In case you didn’t notice, only one political party is taking our debt crisis seriously. The other party figured out that they could buy people’s votes with promises of additional benefits without sharing any of the responsibility. Sadly, a majority of the country fell for it. But, as you (correctly) point out, we live in the real world in which debts must be paid, and there are consequences for our actions.
Bruno
February 26th, 2013
10:17 pm
Special for the crybaby Libs:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/how-a-family-of-four-manages-to-live-well-on-just–14-000-per-year-174803218.html
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 26th, 2013
10:21 pm
Go ahead and oppose austerity. Austerity doesn’t give a crap.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 26th, 2013
10:24 pm
Jefferson: Reasonable people can come to reasonable conclusions under reasonable conditions, unless you are a republican.
Valerie Jarrett, Obozo’s chief of staff: “After we win this election, it’s our turn. Payback time. Everyone not with us is against us and they better be ready because we don’t forget. The ones who helped us will be rewarded, the ones who opposed us will get what they deserve. There is going to be hell to pay.”
———————————————–
Jefferson, you’re a chump.
getalife
February 26th, 2013
11:25 pm
You are clinging to failure so forget the gop and join the majority to solve problems not cause them.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 26th, 2013
11:45 pm
The GOP is working to solve Obozo’s spending problem. Obozo’s solution is to double down on his four years of failure. Trillion dollar deficits and 8%+ unemployment. Heckuva job, Barry.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 26th, 2013
11:56 pm
Some members of Congress apparently don’t like to be reminded about how much debt the country continues to rack up.
During a House Financial Services Committee hearing Tuesday on the budget, two Democrats complained after House Financial Services Committee chairman Jeb Hensarling instructed that two monitors in the hearing room display a real-time running national debt clock.
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/02/26/democrats-complain-about-presence-of-debt-clock-on-capitol-hill/#ixzz2M4XWzCz1
———–
Don’t fear facts, democrats.
middle of the road
February 27th, 2013
5:08 am
Kyle is just afraid that his party – the Republicans – has gone so extreme to the right, that people like me in the middle are clamoring for a third party – the Independent Party, that will go with whichever party it believes in on a specific issue. That will actually give the Independent party very much power, since it will be the deal-maker or deal-breaker.
Jefferson
February 27th, 2013
7:08 am
Little boy you are a little boy with a empty head, mad too.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 27th, 2013
7:46 am
The Deficit Is Actually Shrinking, Despite Beltway Propaganda
http://www.alternet.org/economy/everybody-listen-deficit-actually-shrinking-despite-beltway-propaganda
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 27th, 2013
7:53 am
finn – Here on Earth we like to look at economic statistics that actually mean something, any time you want to join us would be fine.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 27th, 2013
7:54 am
The GOP is working to solve Obozo’s spending problem
yeah, right. LOL
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 27th, 2013
7:54 am
economic statistics that actually mean something,
Like those put out by the Heritage Foundation?
Hehehehehe. Silly boy.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 27th, 2013
7:59 am
And the Cons cave in again:
Senate confirms Hagel for defense secretary
Yesterday it was Christie on ACA, who will it be tomorrow?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 27th, 2013
8:09 am
A week before mandatory budget cuts go into effect across the government, the Department of Homeland Security has started releasing illegal immigrants being held in immigration jails across the country, Immigration and Customs Enforcement said Tuesday.
Gillian Christensen, an ICE spokeswoman, said ICE has reviewed “several hundred cases” of immigrants being held in jails around the country and released them in the last week. They have been “placed on an appropriate, more cost-effective form of supervised release,” she said.
I can’t wait to see what % of the population gets sick from food-borne illnesses once the feds are forced to lay off a bunch of food inspectors.
django
February 27th, 2013
8:30 am
I see no reason to believe a third party is on the horizon. But honestly if Libertarians want their own party I’d be happy for them. Most of the uninformed young one’s that support dope smoking and homo marriage vote with dems anyway.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 27th, 2013
9:08 am
finn – christie, mccain and graham have never been and, apparently, never will be Conservatives. Obviously, you wouldn’t know a Conservative even if you fell over one.
Real Athens
February 27th, 2013
9:35 am
“Conservatism (Latin: conservare, “to retain”) is a political and social philosophy that promotes retaining traditional social institutions. A person who follows the philosophies of conservatism is referred to as a traditionalist or conservative. Some conservatives seek to preserve things as they are, emphasizing stability and continuity, while others, called reactionaries, oppose modernism and seek a return to ‘the way things were’. The first established use of the term in a political context was by François-René de Chateaubriand in 1819, following the French Revolution. The term, historically associated with right-wing politics, has since been used to describe a wide range of views. There is no single set of policies that are universally regarded as conservative, because the meaning of conservatism depends on what is considered traditional in a given place and time. Thus, conservatives from different parts of the world – each upholding their respective traditions – may disagree on a wide range of issues.”
Ah, the French, you have to hand it to them for Mayonnaise.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 27th, 2013
9:23 pm
Yeah, those food inspectors did a great job down in the peanut plant in south Georgia.