From Italy, your latest warning about the danger of having three (or four, or five . . .) political parties
Every time you think our political system produces too much gridlock, or that more political parties might somehow make things better, there’s a good chance some European country is holding an election whose results will prove you wrong.
This week, it’s Italy. If you didn’t notice what happened there, your 401(k) almost certainly did yesterday. Here’s the Wall Street Journal’s explanation of the election results there:
Early Tuesday, the left-wing coalition led by the Democratic Party’s Pier Luigi Bersani appeared to have gained a razor-thin victory in the lower house of parliament over the center-right coalition headed by Mr. Berlusconi — 29.6% to 29.2%, final data from the Interior Ministry showed. By leading the vote count in the lower house, the Democratic Party will automatically get the majority of 340 out 630 seats and, therefore, will likely receive the mandate to form a government.
The Senate, however, appeared headed for political impasse. The Democratic Party was the leading vote-getter in the upper house as well, by less than one percentage point. But its 31.6% result fails to provide its coalition with a majority to pass legislation. If a new government isn’t able to guarantee clear parliamentary support, Italians could return to the polls within months.
Battle lines were already being drawn late Monday. The Democratic Party declared slim victories in both houses, saying it will keep Italy’s interests in mind during this “very delicate situation for the country.” But a top official in Mr. Berlusconi’s center-right coalition said he is asking the country’s interior minister to call the vote a draw.
The apparent stalemate reflects the groundswell of support for former comedian Beppe Grillo’s Five-Star Movement. His throw-the-rascals-out platform drew enough voters to give it nearly as many votes as Italy’s mainstream coalitions — 25.6% in the lower house, according to final data from the Interior Ministry, making it the single largest party in that house.
Lest you miss some of the finer points of what happened there, I’ve put them in bold. The party that forms a government will not be the one that got the most votes — that would be the one led by a former comedian — but rather the one that had the largest coalition of parties. Historically, this coalition approach has not been a stable one. Returning to the polls in the coming months would simply mean the Democratic Party’s hold on power was about as long as Italy’s post-World War II average.
Nevertheless, even though this coalition got less than 30 percent of the votes, it gets 54 percent of the seats. In what way is that more representative of the will of the people than our system with two parties for which many people have to hold their noses when voting?
One does not have to embrace fully our own Republican or Democratic parties to recognize that precious little in the way of better governance would be accomplished by splitting up either or both of them. Better for people disappointed in one or the other to work to strengthen it.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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145 comments Add your comment
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 26th, 2013
2:18 pm
Wow, you can’t sneak anything past these dimwitocrats -
“There’s a cost to very significant stimulus — and that’s OK if the stimulus is a good investment — and I think a lot of what the Fed has done is a very, very good decision,” said Representative John Delaney, a Maryland Democrat and member of the House Financial Services Committee, where Bernanke testifies tomorrow. “Their actions right now are having diminishing returns and increasing the severity of this future loss that will be incurred as rates go up.”
4 years and what do we have to show for it – a Wall Street bubble. Nothing else, no growth, no employment, no revenue. And now the bill comes due and the libs are dumbstruck that China’s gonna charge interest.
I told you, a long time ago, the dummycrats hate us and intend to do grievous long term harm to our country and you wouldn’t listen. Now suck it up cause we’re going………….down.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 26th, 2013
2:29 pm
“I will not sign a plan that adds one dime to our deficits — either now or in the future,” Obama told a joint-session of Congress in September 2009. “I will not sign it if it adds one dime to the deficit, now or in the future, period.”
Obamacare will increase the long-term federal deficit by $6.2 trillion, according to a Government Accountability Office (GAO) report released today.
Let’s see here, how many times will 85 billion divide into this monstrosity?
MrLiberty
February 26th, 2013
2:47 pm
Yes, republicans and democrats have passed oppressive laws in all 50 states making it anywhere from difficult to unbelievably difficult for any other party to get its candidates on the ballot (let alone get elected). In Georgia, the last time a 3rd party candidate was able to qualify for the ballot to run for Congress was…..1935 !!!!! He was a Socialist(as both major parties now are).
Now that these two parties have things locked up, there is never a need for any principles. Big government politicians fill both parties quite well and principled small government types have no where to go. The fear mongering from both sides is quite obvious the closer we get to each election. “Yes, our candidate is the scum of the earth, but at least he isn’t a democrat/republican.” You’ve seen the commercials. No longer does anyone from either party offer up anything other than that they are not from the other party.
No wonder 50% of people don’t even bother to vote. Why should they. The government never changes, regardless of which party gets elected. That should be expected as the two parties are nearly the same. They both support big government, big empire, big police state, assassinating of US citizens without due process, bank bailouts, automaker bailouts, massive military spending, massive overseas empire, the failed war on drugs, income tax slavery, welfare (for their friends), welfare for seniors at the expense of future generations, government control of medicine (each in their own way), massive regulatory apparatus, the IRS, fiat /worthless paper money, deficit spending, all-encompassing surveillance state, and I could go on and on.
We either have representative democracy (with candidates that ACTUALLY represent constituents) or we have our current oligarchy where the two parties represent the status quo and those who profit from it.
Maybe we don’t need 50 different parties represented in congress, but it would be nice if this country could at least have two parties again. What we have now is clearly failing all americans.
getalife
February 26th, 2013
2:52 pm
This generation and congress failed to keep the modern day robber barons from robbing our treasury.
Our system is rigged for the wealthy and now your kids can’t make a decent living to leave your house.
You cons enabled them and should leave politics for the new generation to fix it.
Cherokee
February 26th, 2013
2:54 pm
http://ivn.us/editors-blog/2012/07/24/cbo-repealing-obamacare-would-actually-increase-the-deficit/
I realize that I’m spitting in the wind here, Aesop, trying to correct your mis-statements – but since you won’t provide a source – ever – here’s one that provides some facts about Obamacare.
I’m a little surprised that Kyle lets you steal other peoples work on an ongoing basis. ‘Spect you got tossed out of Bookman’s blog, right?
(Now, toss our your gratuitous insults – you are good at that…)
detritusUSA
February 26th, 2013
2:56 pm
Since we seem to be in to verse:
republicans have no heart and
have no soul
their creed is greed and
their god is gold.
getalife
February 26th, 2013
3:03 pm
When your kids have no chance to get a decent job to leave your house, who are you going to blame?
MrLiberty
February 26th, 2013
3:06 pm
Our last new major party came into being with the election of Abraham Lincoln in 1860. Back then, all you had to do was show up at the polling place with a completed ballot with the candidates names on it. Yeah, that’s all it took. Not so today. A great website that tracks just how horrible the laws are is ballotaccessnews.org (or google ballot access). A few years ago the great champion of liberty who keeps tabs on this site (Richard Winger) calculated what it would take for a new party to get their candidates on all the ballots in all 50 states for all federal offices (just federal, not state or local). The number was over 3 million signatures for a new party, but only about 15,000 total for the two major parties). In the old days, when a party had served out its useful time, it faded away. Today, they stick around like Herpes and the best you can hope for is that the worthless medicine the “other” party promises will keep the misery and the embarrassment down to a minimum until the outbreak subsides.
It is of little wonder that it takes a billionaire like Ross Perot to get any traction at all in this country. He warned us of the federal deficit when neither major party cared. Now that he is gone, they still don’t care and we are in even worse shape. It shouldn’t take a billionaire to change the political landscape, but thanks to ballot access laws, that is the best we can hope for. Even if there was a major change in the mindset of americans, the powers that be have made it impossible for anything to change in the one two-faced party that now rules.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 26th, 2013
3:12 pm
Pardon me but I think I’ll stick with the free Government Accounting Office Report instead of conjecture.
Obsess away, libbies.
JDW
February 26th, 2013
3:14 pm
@Tiberius…”your warning is based on a false comparison to parliamentary government and our constitutional government.”
I see our self appointed “Constitutional Authority” has returned. Off studying the Constitution I hope. Maybe you can help us out…yesterday some yahoo posted this bit of drivel…
“Oh, Aynie Sue, a little Constitutional education is in order, missy.
The House is required to pass a budget (actually, the Congress is, but we’ll get to that later). ”
Now as our self appointed “Constitutional Authority” you of course know that the Constitution does not mention a budget. It only talks about Appropriations which allocate money for spending. In fact it is not uncommon at all for items in a budget to never receive an Appropriation or for an item not in a budget to actually receive one, but of course you know that. Now as our resident self appointed Authority I am guessing you also know that the budget process is actually governed by a set of laws including the Accounting Act of 1921 and the Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974.
So tomorrow when you are shaving could you clue that yahoo in?
Cherokee
February 26th, 2013
3:19 pm
Too bad you’re so insecure in your beliefs that you don’t want the rest of us to read it….
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 26th, 2013
3:28 pm
Not all Cons are dumb as rocks:
And another one bites the dust. New Jersey Republican Gov. Chris Christie will announce later today that his state will accede to the Affordable Care Act’s provision to expand Medicare eligibility, the New Jersey Star-Ledger reports.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 26th, 2013
3:31 pm
4 years and what do we have to show for it – a Wall Street bubble.
What bubble has developed in the last 4 years?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 26th, 2013
3:32 pm
the dummycrats hate us
Nope, just you.
md
February 26th, 2013
4:00 pm
Might want to change sources since the one you are using Finn doesn’t know the difference between Medicare and Medicaid…….
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 26th, 2013
4:08 pm
ultra-conservatives do not see all the ways in which they, and other ultra-conservatives, rely all day every day on what other Americans have supplied for them. They actually believe that they built it all by themselves.
So for them the sequester is not a “self-inflicted wound.” It is justice. The sequester is not merely about protecting “special interests.” It is about the good people who pursued their self-interest successfully, got rich, and have acted “morally” in avoiding taxes that pay for public provisions by the government.
They are not merely trying to harm their own constituents just to hurt the president politically. Yes, they think hurting the president politically is moral, and they believe that any constituents they are hurting need to become more personally responsible. They see the sequester as serving that purpose.
alternet.org
Glenn
February 26th, 2013
4:12 pm
Its been mentioned but the problem with a two party system is the politicians will pander to their base before their constituents . It would seem that the party money comes before the voters . In this case both bases are out of touch with this country . I think the idea of more parties would be better if only to give centrists a voice . I think a fairly good example of this would be Israel where they have , or had before the last election , nine parties .
md
February 26th, 2013
4:22 pm
It’s human nature to form allegiances with those that think/act similar to oneself, so the number of parties is irrelevant……we could have zero parties and the misfits would still group up……
Jefferson
February 26th, 2013
4:43 pm
As always remember…
Reasonable people can come to reasonable conclusions under reasonable conditions, unless you are a republican.
Thomas Heyward Jr
February 26th, 2013
4:54 pm
The Republican Party plays a valuable role.
.
Without it………what would big Government progressives who are smart enough to be ashamed of being a progressive……….call themselves?
.
.
lol
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 26th, 2013
6:22 pm
HDB and other libs who blame austerity for Europe’s problems.
For the umpteenth time, Europe had no choice about embracing austerity, there was no one to loan them money, other than Germany. Germany has been more austere all along so they had an economy that would allow them to loan money to the EU brethren, but Merkel was smart in that she insisted on guarantees. She didn’t want to pour money down the rathole of more entitlements and more insolvency.
We are headed down the same road, where our creditors tell us what to do in order to borrow more money. We can avoid that by dealing with our pending insolvency now or wait and be told what to do.
Hillbilly D
February 26th, 2013
6:41 pm
Personally, I’m for a no party system. George Washington warned us about them in his Farewell Speech, even though it was a bit hypocritical of him, given his past actions.
Tundra Dude
February 26th, 2013
7:02 pm
From Italy, your latest warning about the danger of having three (or four, or five . . .) political parties
Yet, somehow my country (of birth) manages with 4 major and 2 minor parties…….
I’m guessing, in Europe, Asia, So. America, they’re writing about our dysfunctional 2-party system.
Tundra Dude
February 26th, 2013
7:17 pm
Mr. Liberty wrote, in part:
The government never changes, regardless of which party gets elected. That should be expected as the two parties are nearly the same.
Bill Clintons’ mentor must be smiling in his grave.
Carroll Quigley wrote in his book “Tragedy and Hope”:
“The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to doctrinaire and academic thinkers…Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can “throw the rascals out” at any election without leading to any profound or extreme shifts in policy.”
~mentor to Bill Clinton, prof at Georgetown University
md
February 26th, 2013
7:54 pm
“That should be expected as the two parties are nearly the same.”
Last I checked, at least one of them doesn’t believe in voting for others to pay higher taxes when everybody got a tax cut…….
Bruno
February 26th, 2013
9:18 pm
Last I checked, at least one of them doesn’t believe in voting for others to pay higher taxes when everybody got a tax cut…….
md–It’s kind of humorous watching the Libs fall over themselves because they won an election. In the meantime, our country is going to sh!t. I guess that’s what happens when you put children in charge.
Bruno
February 26th, 2013
9:36 pm
We are headed down the same road, where our creditors tell us what to do in order to borrow more money. We can avoid that by dealing with our pending insolvency now or wait and be told what to do.
Rafe–In case you didn’t notice, only one political party is taking our debt crisis seriously. The other party figured out that they could buy people’s votes with promises of additional benefits without sharing any of the responsibility. Sadly, a majority of the country fell for it. But, as you (correctly) point out, we live in the real world in which debts must be paid, and there are consequences for our actions.
Bruno
February 26th, 2013
10:17 pm
Special for the crybaby Libs:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/how-a-family-of-four-manages-to-live-well-on-just–14-000-per-year-174803218.html
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 26th, 2013
10:21 pm
Go ahead and oppose austerity. Austerity doesn’t give a crap.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 26th, 2013
10:24 pm
Jefferson: Reasonable people can come to reasonable conclusions under reasonable conditions, unless you are a republican.
Valerie Jarrett, Obozo’s chief of staff: “After we win this election, it’s our turn. Payback time. Everyone not with us is against us and they better be ready because we don’t forget. The ones who helped us will be rewarded, the ones who opposed us will get what they deserve. There is going to be hell to pay.”
———————————————–
Jefferson, you’re a chump.
getalife
February 26th, 2013
11:25 pm
You are clinging to failure so forget the gop and join the majority to solve problems not cause them.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 26th, 2013
11:45 pm
The GOP is working to solve Obozo’s spending problem. Obozo’s solution is to double down on his four years of failure. Trillion dollar deficits and 8%+ unemployment. Heckuva job, Barry.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 26th, 2013
11:56 pm
Some members of Congress apparently don’t like to be reminded about how much debt the country continues to rack up.
During a House Financial Services Committee hearing Tuesday on the budget, two Democrats complained after House Financial Services Committee chairman Jeb Hensarling instructed that two monitors in the hearing room display a real-time running national debt clock.
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/02/26/democrats-complain-about-presence-of-debt-clock-on-capitol-hill/#ixzz2M4XWzCz1
———–
Don’t fear facts, democrats.
middle of the road
February 27th, 2013
5:08 am
Kyle is just afraid that his party – the Republicans – has gone so extreme to the right, that people like me in the middle are clamoring for a third party – the Independent Party, that will go with whichever party it believes in on a specific issue. That will actually give the Independent party very much power, since it will be the deal-maker or deal-breaker.
Jefferson
February 27th, 2013
7:08 am
Little boy you are a little boy with a empty head, mad too.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 27th, 2013
7:46 am
The Deficit Is Actually Shrinking, Despite Beltway Propaganda
http://www.alternet.org/economy/everybody-listen-deficit-actually-shrinking-despite-beltway-propaganda
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 27th, 2013
7:53 am
finn – Here on Earth we like to look at economic statistics that actually mean something, any time you want to join us would be fine.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 27th, 2013
7:54 am
The GOP is working to solve Obozo’s spending problem
yeah, right. LOL
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 27th, 2013
7:54 am
economic statistics that actually mean something,
Like those put out by the Heritage Foundation?
Hehehehehe. Silly boy.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 27th, 2013
7:59 am
And the Cons cave in again:
Senate confirms Hagel for defense secretary
Yesterday it was Christie on ACA, who will it be tomorrow?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 27th, 2013
8:09 am
A week before mandatory budget cuts go into effect across the government, the Department of Homeland Security has started releasing illegal immigrants being held in immigration jails across the country, Immigration and Customs Enforcement said Tuesday.
Gillian Christensen, an ICE spokeswoman, said ICE has reviewed “several hundred cases” of immigrants being held in jails around the country and released them in the last week. They have been “placed on an appropriate, more cost-effective form of supervised release,” she said.
I can’t wait to see what % of the population gets sick from food-borne illnesses once the feds are forced to lay off a bunch of food inspectors.
django
February 27th, 2013
8:30 am
I see no reason to believe a third party is on the horizon. But honestly if Libertarians want their own party I’d be happy for them. Most of the uninformed young one’s that support dope smoking and homo marriage vote with dems anyway.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 27th, 2013
9:08 am
finn – christie, mccain and graham have never been and, apparently, never will be Conservatives. Obviously, you wouldn’t know a Conservative even if you fell over one.
Real Athens
February 27th, 2013
9:35 am
“Conservatism (Latin: conservare, “to retain”) is a political and social philosophy that promotes retaining traditional social institutions. A person who follows the philosophies of conservatism is referred to as a traditionalist or conservative. Some conservatives seek to preserve things as they are, emphasizing stability and continuity, while others, called reactionaries, oppose modernism and seek a return to ‘the way things were’. The first established use of the term in a political context was by François-René de Chateaubriand in 1819, following the French Revolution. The term, historically associated with right-wing politics, has since been used to describe a wide range of views. There is no single set of policies that are universally regarded as conservative, because the meaning of conservatism depends on what is considered traditional in a given place and time. Thus, conservatives from different parts of the world – each upholding their respective traditions – may disagree on a wide range of issues.”
Ah, the French, you have to hand it to them for Mayonnaise.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 27th, 2013
9:23 pm
Yeah, those food inspectors did a great job down in the peanut plant in south Georgia.