From Italy, your latest warning about the danger of having three (or four, or five . . .) political parties
Every time you think our political system produces too much gridlock, or that more political parties might somehow make things better, there’s a good chance some European country is holding an election whose results will prove you wrong.
This week, it’s Italy. If you didn’t notice what happened there, your 401(k) almost certainly did yesterday. Here’s the Wall Street Journal’s explanation of the election results there:
Early Tuesday, the left-wing coalition led by the Democratic Party’s Pier Luigi Bersani appeared to have gained a razor-thin victory in the lower house of parliament over the center-right coalition headed by Mr. Berlusconi — 29.6% to 29.2%, final data from the Interior Ministry showed. By leading the vote count in the lower house, the Democratic Party will automatically get the majority of 340 out 630 seats and, therefore, will likely receive the mandate to form a government.
The Senate, however, appeared headed for political impasse. The Democratic Party was the leading vote-getter in the upper house as well, by less than one percentage point. But its 31.6% result fails to provide its coalition with a majority to pass legislation. If a new government isn’t able to guarantee clear parliamentary support, Italians could return to the polls within months.
Battle lines were already being drawn late Monday. The Democratic Party declared slim victories in both houses, saying it will keep Italy’s interests in mind during this “very delicate situation for the country.” But a top official in Mr. Berlusconi’s center-right coalition said he is asking the country’s interior minister to call the vote a draw.
The apparent stalemate reflects the groundswell of support for former comedian Beppe Grillo’s Five-Star Movement. His throw-the-rascals-out platform drew enough voters to give it nearly as many votes as Italy’s mainstream coalitions — 25.6% in the lower house, according to final data from the Interior Ministry, making it the single largest party in that house.
Lest you miss some of the finer points of what happened there, I’ve put them in bold. The party that forms a government will not be the one that got the most votes — that would be the one led by a former comedian — but rather the one that had the largest coalition of parties. Historically, this coalition approach has not been a stable one. Returning to the polls in the coming months would simply mean the Democratic Party’s hold on power was about as long as Italy’s post-World War II average.
Nevertheless, even though this coalition got less than 30 percent of the votes, it gets 54 percent of the seats. In what way is that more representative of the will of the people than our system with two parties for which many people have to hold their noses when voting?
One does not have to embrace fully our own Republican or Democratic parties to recognize that precious little in the way of better governance would be accomplished by splitting up either or both of them. Better for people disappointed in one or the other to work to strengthen it.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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145 comments Add your comment
Skip
February 26th, 2013
11:45 am
Mark, the city was divided up before the wall was built.
Retired Soldier
February 26th, 2013
11:49 am
HDB-
The opportunity comes from birth, our life choices then dictate who wins and who loses, I agree at 50 it isn’t equal because of the choices made prior to 50.
md
February 26th, 2013
11:51 am
“Ask those who are over 50 and looking for work….for one……”
What opportunity do they not have??
Sounds like an excuse…….
Dusty
February 26th, 2013
11:52 am
TEA Party! What the Italians need is a VIno Party.
That would make them hale and hearty!
Maybe I should tell that Belasconi
And that would improve their macaroni!!
Which reminds me it’s time for lunch.
Get away from this crazee bunch! (Well, not ALL of ya!)
Jefferson
February 26th, 2013
12:03 pm
The GOP is losing seats due to their lack of credibility, next election they could be done. Depends how they handle the corner they have painted themselves into.
Rex Winn
February 26th, 2013
12:04 pm
All this fuss about having more political parties…I just wish we had a second one.
Matz
February 26th, 2013
12:09 pm
I think the point to realize here, is that the fewer choices we have, the better. Ideally, our whole nation will come under ONE PARTY RULE like here in Dear Ol’ Georgia. Things are going SO well here! Why, not only has Gov. Shady all but erased his $4Mil in personal debt (in less than one term, on $135K a year), but his good buddy Chip now runs our lil’ ol’ public TV network at a whopping $150K a year. (Cush gigs like that are for the appointed and anointed, you know, not the folks who’ve worked their tails off in the business/company.) Yes, we should be thankful that our tax dollars are being so well spent! Against our wishes, the one-party rule will also offer our tax dollars up to Mr. Blank and his new stadium, even though most of us cannot afford to attend the games.
But the dictatorial goodness does not stop there! Silly citizens think we have a voice in our own communities, but that is going away too, thanks to our new BIG DADDY GUBMINT knows as the GEORGIA GOP. With HB 170, 171, and 172, our Gopper Daddies will overrule the folks we elected to run Fulton County, setting the stage to usurp local control of the other 158 counties as well. And electing local school board reps and holding them accountable — also a thing of the past.
Soon, we’ll be free of those annoying campaign ads entirely, as the one party that matters gerrymanders their way into our neighborhoods and tells us what we will and will not accept from them. In the name of freedom. Because they hate “big government” that’s not them. YAY!
bluecoat
February 26th, 2013
12:10 pm
Retired- choices made before 50.How could you know the company you work for would be bought by some corporate raider like Romney?The pension fund raided,faithful employees laid off,and the companys work outsourced to some foreign corp.?
Junior Samples
February 26th, 2013
12:14 pm
Dusty was once from Nantucket,
Who kept all his rhymes in a bucket.
While he may be on a roll,
He’s still just a troll.
But he will always be simply a puppet.
MarkV
February 26th, 2013
12:16 pm
Skip @ 11:45 am
“Mark, the city was divided up before the wall was built.”
Skip, the city was divided. And you could cross the border of the sections.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 26th, 2013
12:24 pm
Let’s split up the Cons and see what happens. Come on, take a chance.
Real Athens
February 26th, 2013
12:26 pm
Dusty,
Only a damn fool would comment about Italians having never been there. Really, at the end of the day do you know about Italy?
Don't Tread
February 26th, 2013
12:31 pm
“and shows no respect for the rules of governance defined in our Constitution”… While Republicans are anything but perfect, that’s pretty rich, coming from a Democrat. You can type that with a straight face?
I say make it a rule that anyone who votes for or helps pass something that is unconstitutional gets kicked out for violating their oath of office, with no possibility of re-election or a fat pension. Sure there will be some bloodletting early on, but after a couple of rounds people would get it. “Is this constitutional?” should be the first question asked when considering a new law.
Rafe Hollister
February 26th, 2013
12:41 pm
HDB
I thought you were doing better since Barry assumed control away from the evil Dubyah. What happened?
Politico
February 26th, 2013
12:42 pm
Dusty
Seeing that any President’s first budget is already in place for him tell us exactly what Bush did from a troop numbers, training and weapon systems perspective.
This ought to be great blather, nonsense and hyperbole
zeke
February 26th, 2013
12:42 pm
A 3 party or more system would doom us to third world status! Of course, the democrats have us rushing headlong into that stupidity now! In 1992, Perot entered the race because he was an egotistical buffoon! Only thing he caused was to split the Conservative vote and allow a scumbag to get elected with about 43% of the vote! NO POLITICAL OFFICE SHOULD EVER BE FILLED WITHOUT THE CANDIDATE RECEIVING AT MINIMUM 50% +1 OF THE VOTE, except THAT OF PRESIDENT, WHICH IS CONTROLLED VERY LOGICALLY BY THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE!!!!
And no matter how many times you left wing liberals rant and rave that Bush lost, every imaginable way you came up to recount the vote, BUSH WON!!!! You even tried to count the “INTENT” of the voter! What idiots! Be Gone!
Politico
February 26th, 2013
12:47 pm
Zeke
I agree that some on the left cry about the 2000 election. Bush won.
As for 92, please post empirical evidence that had Perot not entered the race, Bush Sr would have won.
You are crying about that in the same manner that those on the left cry about 2000.
Bartender. Get zeke another shot of irony on the house. Make it two
HDB
February 26th, 2013
12:51 pm
Retired Soldier
February 26th, 2013
11:49 am
“HDB- The opportunity comes from birth, our life choices then dictate who wins and who loses, I agree at 50 it isn’t equal because of the choices made prior to 50.”
Oh really….age discrimination exists…(and don’t fall for the okey-doke that it doesn’t!)…..therefore, equal opportunity does NOT exist in all quarters of this nation………..
Rafe Hollister
February 26th, 2013
12:41 pm
I’m doing GREAT!! Doing MUCH better than I was under Bush…and now, I’m a homeOWNER!!
HDB
February 26th, 2013
12:58 pm
zeke
February 26th, 2013
12:42 pm
Actually, you’re wrong about the vote COUNT!
Al Gore (Democrat) 50,999,897 48.38%
George W. Bush (Republican) 50,456,002 47.87%
Vote difference: 503,895
http://www.fec.gov/pubrec/fe2000/prespop.htm
Bush won in the Electoral College 271-266 (with one elector in DC abstaining……)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_v._Gore
md
February 26th, 2013
12:59 pm
“Oh really….age discrimination exists…”
Sure does, I’d hire them all the time over the can’t get out of bed, call in Friday to party crowd………
It works both ways…….
HDB
February 26th, 2013
12:59 pm
zeke
February 26th, 2013
12:42 pm
Actually, you’re wrong about the vote COUNT!
Al Gore (Democrat) 50,999,897 48.38%
George W. Bush (Republican) 50,456,002 47.87%
Vote difference: 503,895
http://www.fec.gov/pubrec/fe2000/prespop.htm
Centrist
February 26th, 2013
1:02 pm
Jefferson posted “The GOP is losing seats due to their lack of credibility, next election they could be done.”
There is not a single recognized political pundit/prognosticator (including the left New York Times and Washington Post) who predict the Republicans won’t continue to hold the House of Representatives after the 2014 elections. Most predict more gains. Furthermore, the Democrats have no chance of regaining a super-majority of 60 seats in the Senate – they are much more likely to lose a few.
You’d think with this in mind, there would be some compromise – but alas, political posturing seems to work for most incumbents.
HDB
February 26th, 2013
1:03 pm
md
February 26th, 2013
12:59 pm
“Oh really….age discrimination exists…”
Sure does, I’d hire them all the time over the can’t get out of bed, call in Friday to party crowd………
“It works both ways…….”
Oh REALLY?? Tell that to someone who’s been LOOKING for work for extended periods and can’t get an interview because he’s over 50…..I know of several people who fall into that category!! Corporate America won’t pay someone who WANTS to work………
md
February 26th, 2013
1:08 pm
“Oh REALLY?? Tell that to someone who’s been LOOKING for work for extended periods and can’t get an interview because he’s over 50…..I know of several people who fall into that category!! Corporate America won’t pay someone who WANTS to work………”
There are 20+ million unemployed, they are NOT all over 50………..your claim is bogus. Sure, there are a lot of 50+ folks looking for work, but there are also a lot of 20+ folks looking for work along with a lot of 30+ and 40+ folks too………
indigo
February 26th, 2013
1:11 pm
Dusty – 10:59
Guess you haven’t been keeping up with news from Iraq.
That country is gradually falling apart, again.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 26th, 2013
1:13 pm
The Pinko Party is actually already a fractured group of many, many different constituencies, some which kill each other when away from Washington DC and some that, eck, “love”, ew, each other even in DC, but they are united together in one common cause, temporarily setting aside their inbred hatred of everything – spending up other people’s money.
When that runs out, who knows what will happen to them or what they will come after next.
You might want to pay attention to how bug eyed hysterical they have become over a 1.5% cut to thunquenchableable longing for your cash, imagine what would happen with a 100% cut.
md
February 26th, 2013
1:13 pm
According to the numbesr, the over 50 group is actually doing BETTER than the other unemployed:
http://bonddad.blogspot.com/2012/02/unemployment-rate-by-age.html
Jim
February 26th, 2013
1:15 pm
Although I can understand your desire to keep the republican party “whole”, I am, for the most part, done with voting for republicans just because it would help democrats to vote for another party.
The last two presidential elections, I have reluctantly voted for the republican candidate, for the most part, because not voting or voting for a third party candidate better ensured the election of the democrat nominee.
No more. Although a lot can change between now and 2016, I WILL NOT support another “wishy-washy” center-right republican nominee regardless of the impact on the election.
I am a fiscal conservative, not a republican. If the fiscal conservatives form another “circular firing squad” as they have for the last two presidential nominating process and allow another moderate to be nominated, they can do so without me. If republicans ever actually nominee a candidate who is supported by the majority of primary voters, then I may reconsider.
It is time for the Tea Party to become a third political party and leave the republican party to Karl Rove, John McClain, George Bush and the likes. Those type folks want to be popular by becoming democrats-lite, not me.
HDB
February 26th, 2013
1:15 pm
md
February 26th, 2013
1:08 pm
You’re moving the goalposts! I stated that age discrimination exists…..I did NOT state that there were NOT a lot of people not looking for work! The probability that people over 50 are having a harder time finding employment is greater than that of those under 50….THAT’s the point!!
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 26th, 2013
1:16 pm
“thunquenchableable” of course being “their unquenchable desire.”
IE sucks.
md
February 26th, 2013
1:19 pm
And that point would be wrong HDB……look at the chart.
And sure, some out there will prefer to hire younger folks, but as I said there are also some out there that prefer to hire older folks. The numbers state the young folks are having a much harder time…..must be all that discrimination…….
Peadawg
February 26th, 2013
1:19 pm
Not sure it’s the “2 party system” that people are complaining about. It’s that the 2 parties we currently have…for lack of a better word…suck.
Booger Fling
February 26th, 2013
1:20 pm
Why do we need a warning about three, four, or five political parties? We’ve really had just one political party in this country for many years and change is without doubt in need. Both Dems and Repubs are on the same team these days folks. Is it not obvious? Year after year the bills are passed no matter how loud the people yell no. Then one side gets to blame the other. Keeping up the rhetoric of us vs. them. Dem vs. Repub. All the while continuing to divide this country. Another political party is needed.
Rafe Hollister
February 26th, 2013
1:20 pm
HDB
Glad you are doing well! The over 50 problem is the number of applicants out there looking, due to the Obama economy. If you were the employer and had multiple equal candidates wanting the job, which would you hire? Most tend to prefer one they can retain the longest, what with the cost of training. Competition makes it tough to get hired for those on the margins, the young and inexperienced and the old and worn.
The way to improve the situation is to improve the economy and get it growing. Obama seems more interested in how we divide the pie, than in how we grow the pie, unfortunately.
Peadawg
February 26th, 2013
1:24 pm
We’re stuck with the far left and the far right. And if a party member strays anywhere close to the middle, they are effectively banished.
Rafe Hollister
February 26th, 2013
1:25 pm
That country is gradually falling apart, again
Seems contagious, we watch Europe do the same, and yet Barry moves to make us more like Europe everyday.
Retired Soldier
February 26th, 2013
1:35 pm
bluecoat-
By saving, by improving your education level as an adult, lots of ways. Anyone caught in that situation could have done what I did, switch careers.
HDB
February 26th, 2013
1:36 pm
md
February 26th, 2013
1:19 pm
“numbers state the young folks are having a much harder time…..”
Younger people have greater NUMBERS looking for work….so their VOLUME is the determinant!! Older workers, it’s their AGE that’s the qualifying number!!
Rafe Hollister
February 26th, 2013
1:20 pm
No argument there….but with the competition comes the experience factor. Retention and retraining are determining factors….but if you’ve noticed the preponderance of job listings want EXPERIENCE…..someone who can come in running!! As you stated…young and inexperienced vs. old and worn. Problem is…the “old and worn” has an experience level that employers are desiring…but when that person is over 50, they tend to shy away from that person………
Just my observation…………
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
February 26th, 2013
1:38 pm
Kyle, your warning is based on a false comparison to parliamentary government and our constitutional government.
We’d handle multiple parties just fine here.
breckenridge
February 26th, 2013
1:42 pm
We may see another 3rd party form shortly, but they’ll be impotent. That’s because the grand experiment of the GOP as a religious party has been a complete failure. And the writing is on the wall, fundamentalist religion is a complete loser for the party.
We Goldwater republicans are going to make a big push, we are going to kick the religious right out of the party. Once they get kicked to the curb, where they can lick their wounds and form…….oh call it the James Dobson party or something.
HDB
February 26th, 2013
1:42 pm
Rafe Hollister
February 26th, 2013
1:25 pm
“Seems contagious, we watch Europe do the same, and yet the GOP moves to make us more like Europe everyday.”
There…fixed your statement………
Austerity measures have put segments of Europe into a triple-dip recession!! During times of economic downturn, the government is the last-best hope of fostering the recovery!! The government is the only entity that can rapidly infuse capital into the economic system to arrest a recession. Government has the capability to deficit spend to expand the economy and arrest a recession when private industry can not! When the economy has recovered, THEN should the government retract and cut spending!! How did Reagan get this nation out of a recession?? Government SPENDING! Government contracted under Clinton because the private sector was doing well……..
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
February 26th, 2013
1:45 pm
HDB, the market today can hold out for very specific experience on systems that many older workers do not have.
It’s a buyers market which has almost nothing to do other age
HDB
February 26th, 2013
1:45 pm
breckenridge
February 26th, 2013
1:42 pm
“We Goldwater republicans are going to make a big push…..”
I’m hoping for more of the “Rockefeller/Weicker/Kemp/Brooke/Eisenhower” Republicans myself……
HDB
February 26th, 2013
1:48 pm
Tiberius – pulling the tail of the left AND right
February 26th, 2013
1:45 pm
Not quite, Tibbi…..older workers have comparable experiences that can transfer into multiple systems…even those with very specific requirements! At times, hiring managers hesitate to hire someone OLDER than they are…….
It is a buyer’s market….and what many are asking for, they are unwilling to buy…..
Just my opinion and observation………
HDB
February 26th, 2013
1:50 pm
Tibbi….one question: how many times have you seen an OLDER worker being asked to train HIS manager?? (Happened to me too many times……even when I had applied for the position myself!!)
getalife
February 26th, 2013
1:50 pm
Austerity failed badly and the voters are holding them accountable.
Yesterday, graham caved on defense cuts so now the house must surrender or die.
Check mate.
Get out of the way gop.
bluecoat
February 26th, 2013
1:52 pm
Once ‘inconceivable,’ Republican leaders sign pro-gay marriage brief.We want your vote.will we be hypocritical? YES.
Jefferson
February 26th, 2013
1:55 pm
Stick a fork in the GOP, the budget cuts are killing them.
md
February 26th, 2013
2:00 pm
Percentages are based off volume HDB, the young have more out there but also have a bigger percentage unemployed. In contrast, the over 50 crowd only have 5-6% unemployed……..
using your assumptions, one could say the young are being discriminated against as folks are hiring the older ones with more experience……
In the end, the economy just sucks for all demographics, but the over 50 crowd is NOT any different than the rest.
bluecoat
February 26th, 2013
2:03 pm
Goldwater gop.suggest you name your new party. Party Of Pharisees……