School choice: We can’t help the poor by helping only them
Opponents of school choice measures such as vouchers or tax-credit scholarships love to do a little two-step.
First, they insist choice measures be limited only to low-income families — for the sake of being “fair.” Then, they note the tuition charged by existing private schools and say these families couldn’t possibly make up the difference between those prices and the value of the voucher or scholarship, and thus we might as well scrap the choice measures.
With that, they sit back and fold their arms, confident they’ve done something other than prove the basic laws of economics apply to education.
Before we burst their bubble, let’s take a step back.
The goal of anyone interested in education should be to see that all children attend quality schools. Right?
In a triumph of hope over experience, choice opponents think this can be accomplished through existing public schools alone. If only we spend more and more (and more) money on them.
The rest of us understand the public schools need more competition. More competition would not only mean new, better options for families. It would compel public schools to improve themselves, too.
That is, after all, the way the world works. Consider an example: digital cameras.
Economist Mark J. Perry last year observed that, in 2000, Nikon’s popular CoolPix camera was a 3-megapixel camera that cost $1,337 (adjusted for inflation). By 2012, the CoolPix was a 16.1-megapixel gadget that retailed for $197.
So, in 12 years the camera became more than five times more powerful even though it sold at less than a sixth of the price.
What drove those changes? Technological innovation, of course, but also competition. In fact, competition spurred the innovation: Had Nikon enjoyed a government-enforced market share of more than 90 percent, we hardly could have expected its camera to undergo such substantial increases in quality or decreases in price, much less both.
We shouldn’t expect to see competition change education quite that dramatically, though there is great untapped potential for schools to use technology. But neither can we expect education to improve at more than a modest rate so long as public schools face little competition.
That brings us back to means-testing for school-choice measures, and those basic laws of economics.
In case it’s been a while since you took Econ 101: When demand rises, supply increases to meet it. All else being equal, this tends to drive prices down over time.
It is precisely because demand for educational alternatives is artificially depressed, by the existence of “free” public schools, that their supply remains so restricted and their prices so high.
If we continue to limit school choice measures via income thresholds, or most any other restriction, we will simply ensure demand remains low. That’s a sure-fire way to keep supply low, too, and prevent the robust competition needed to boost the quality of all schools.
And that, in turn, will keep tuition prices from falling to the point even those families that do qualify for a voucher or tax-credit scholarship can afford other options.
The end result will be failure for the choice measures, and more middling improvement in educational quality.
To be fair, choice opponents aren’t the only ones who favor means-testing. Some advocates would accept income limits if that meant choice measures moved forward sooner.
While I can’t fault them for their impatience, and while I certainly share their concern for lower-income families, they need to realize they risk crippling the entire effort before it has a chance to succeed. Worse, they risk preventing even those lower-income families from seeing the very changes they so desperately need.
That’s hardly “fair,” to those families or anyone else.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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278 comments Add your comment
td
February 21st, 2013
9:16 am
Kyle,
If you mean choice and competition in the form of vouchers for all children then I agree with you and think it would improve the education process. If you mean choice is this Charter school amendment then we disagree. This Charter school amendment in Georgia did nothing to improve education for all. All this did was to let for profit companies come in and cherry pick the cream of the middle class crop (who will learn no matter what situation they are in because of parental involvement) and then abandon all the rest of the children into failing schools where there are NO parents left that will fight for change.
Horrible idea.
barking frog
February 21st, 2013
9:18 am
Deep Cover
Real estate is always going up.
That doesn’t make ANY SENSE.
………………………………..
especially since the housing collapse….
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
February 21st, 2013
9:19 am
“This Charter school amendment in Georgia did nothing to improve education for all.”
Considering it hasn’t been implemented yet, that’s a pretty far-reaching statement even for you, td.
TRUTH
February 21st, 2013
9:20 am
Awww, the NEO-CONS and their penchant for “I got mine….” Most of US (that would be the working public…” attended PUBLIC SCHOOLS. Now for a quick lesson in socio-economics….I was a smart kid, as most of my friends were. We laugh about it today but what moved us to perform well, was the respect we had for our families and others. Unfortunately, over time (I graduated HS in the 70s and college in the early 80s) a little thing called “Reaganomics” came to past. I recall applying for jobs that eventually were eliminated. I recall being in Detroit for a summer job and the ENTIRE city was out of work. No jobs deterioates everything. To most kids our education system is overworked, fiscally stressed, and is not current with the markets for today. We all (us fuddy-duddy’s that is) knew then that if you had a HS diploma you could get employed and raise a family. Today, Kyle, with the lack of opportunities, employers behaving badly, low waages (stagnant or otherwise), and even less investment in the education system, schools that aren’t private suffers. In the end those young people are ill prepared to move forward, thusly, the country slips behind. Making private schools will make no difference. My analogy proves that. When i was in school, PUBLIC school, my parents paid $20 so I could play sports (covered physical, cleats, and banquet). Today, I know high schools charging anywhere from $300 – $750 for a student to participate i extrcurricular activities, school supplies, etc. not to mention teachers coming out of pocket to meet the needs of their classrooms. I call it for what it is…BS. Now you waant vouchers and all is going to be magically better. How exactly would a family of 4 on todays wages afford such a proposition, Kyle? Is it going to be divvied up like the Republican re-districting map? Will the vouchers extend to undocumented and minority enclaves as it would if you lived in, say North Dekalb or Morningside? Who’s to say that schools won’t revert to the very issue that is driving this crazy talk? How much would the voucher be for each child? Would their be a criteria? What about a child with special needs or an adult who needs to be retrained?
Vouchers sound like the Tea Party, shallow, distracting, and pure fiction.
Nice try, Kyle… you probably have better arguments, but this one falls short on specifics. I agree our schools must improve, but at what cost and I don’t mean in dollars and cents. Here’s an idea, pay teachers more. Upgrade the educational system and make colleges affordable. More importantly, offer training from companies and corporations in the tech schools to meet the demands of the market. Education, much like healthcare, is not exclusive to the rich. ALL AMERICANS DESERVE OPPORTUNITY. So much more to say here, but hopefully others will take these comments and run with it.
detritusUSA
February 21st, 2013
9:24 am
The puerile pundit hits a home run in twisted logic. Private schools don’t want the children of the unwashed masses, and neither do the parents who send their children there. They are called “private schools” for a reason and a purpose, and money has little to do with it.
td
February 21st, 2013
9:25 am
Tiberius – pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
February 21st, 2013
9:19 am
Should have said “will do” instead of “did nothing”. With that said, we know from research the past effort at State level Charter schools that the test scores did not increase.
The main problem is that the Charter schools can not serve all the children so then the involved parents will pull their children out of the regular schools instead of doing the hard work of real change and leave the regular schools with the children of parents that do not care. These schools will fall further and further behind and how does that pull the entire state up?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
February 21st, 2013
9:30 am
td, I would rather see a select few achieve excellence rather than dumb everyone down to a lower level.
JDW
February 21st, 2013
9:31 am
@Tiberius…”Forget where “government monies” come from originally, JDW?”
Nope if the government collects them, as they do and should they are responsible. It is not their job to act as a shill for private schools. It is their job to build and operate a world class education system and that is where their efforts should be directed.
Seems to me that YOU forget who should be accountable for tax dollars…hint it is not the local private school principal.
JDW
February 21st, 2013
9:34 am
@Tiberius…:And yet the kids coming out of high school are largely dumber than a sack of hammers.
They know how to take standardize tests, but don’t really know anything. Kinda like liberals in general.”
WOW more pontification from Tiberiusville with surprise surprise
not a shred of supporting documentation. ..The word of Tiberius…for the people of Tiberiusville.
barking frog
February 21st, 2013
9:35 am
JDW
It is their job to build and operate a world class education system and that is where their efforts should be directed.
………………………………………………………..
it’s been a couple of hundred years, how long is it going to take ?
JDW
February 21st, 2013
9:38 am
@Tiberius…”But FORCING me to give my tax money to an enterprise that fails to educate my kids properly is fine? Why can’t I just get back what I was forced to pay, and use it where I see fit?”
Why the Constitution of the Federal and State of your choice of course. It empowers the government to tax you…your redress is to elect someone different…not request a refund.
td
February 21st, 2013
9:38 am
Tiberius – pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
February 21st, 2013
9:30 am
td, I would rather see a select few achieve excellence rather than dumb everyone down to a lower level.
Here is where we disagree my friend. I say that a child that has parents that set high expectation levels, are involved in their children’s matriculation and place checks on the schools will be successful in any environment. These children and their parents pull up all the children in a particular school and are always working to improve the schools. If you pull them out of regular public schools then yes they will be successful in their education process but you will be punishing them in the long run because their peers in the regular schools will be less educated then our peers today and will then be even more dependent on government for their day to day subsistence. Guess who will have to pay even more for these services in the future?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
February 21st, 2013
9:39 am
“Seems to me that YOU forget who should be accountable for tax dollars…hint it is not the local private school principal.”
No, it’s the local school SYSTEM, JDW. What I am saying (and you as usual are missing) is that I shouldn’t be taxed for a failing product if I can find something better. It IS my money before government takes it, even if you don’t believe the reality of that fact.
See, JDW, YOUR solution is akin to forcing people to pay a car repair shop that doesn’t do the job right, while giving me the option to have my car repaired at the shop that will do the job right and pay there, too.
Simply put, no amount of other people’s money will satisfy you libs.
JDW
February 21st, 2013
9:39 am
ooops Federal Government
Dusty
February 21st, 2013
9:39 am
Well, I see we have started the day here with liberals calling Kyle “names”. Now that is not the way to start a discussion..
Kyle wants better schools. You disagree with that?
He presents what he thinks is a better way. Why don’t you do the same?
The fact is I don’t agree with Kyle either. Why? Because I think we need better education for TEACHERS. I have heard so often that ,,,if you can’t major in science or math, you can always get a degree in “education” or athletics. Let’s change that
HIgher requirements for the education of teachers.is a definite need. Teachers who do not like to teach should go right OUT along with the ones who cannot reach the minds of children.
Parents know who these teaches are and officials probably do too. I think we have the facilities that we need. Now let us get better teachers with alert parents that expect them to teach.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
February 21st, 2013
9:40 am
And yet the kids coming out of high school are largely dumber than a sack of hammers.
As opposed to kids in the 50’s who were of course all rocket scientist upon graduation.\
Kids today in general are a lot better educated than 50 years ago.
That is part of the reason why they tend to be liberal and vote Democratic
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
February 21st, 2013
9:41 am
I suspect JDW hasn’t interacted with a cross section of high school graduates in a looooong time.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
February 21st, 2013
9:41 am
Kyle wants better schools. You disagree with that?
Yes when its my tax dollars paying for a trust fund baby to go to private school.
You want your kid in private school. Pay for it yourself moocher.
JDW
February 21st, 2013
9:41 am
@Barking Frog….”it’s been a couple of hundred years, how long is it going to take ”
Seems to me our country has done ok over the last couple of hundred years…my guess is we have done just fine…always need to get better but it is hard to argue with the results.
Cutty
February 21st, 2013
9:41 am
Must be hard carrying the water for this ’school choice’ scam. If competition is needed doe public school, why not mandate that charter and private schools adhere to the same oversight requirements related to funding? Why make it against the law to actually to find out where the money is coming and going?
Public funds used to send lilly white kids to private school is all this is. None of these exurban legislators at the dome care about black kids in NW or SE Atlanta. Hence, Kyle’s pitiful scribe about why this scam should be open to all kids. If they had really wanted to be transparent, the gold domers would’ve just said this up front.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
February 21st, 2013
9:42 am
I suspect Cheesy is in the dark about high school graduates today as well.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
February 21st, 2013
9:43 am
I suspect JDW hasn’t interacted with a cross section of high school graduates in a looooong time.
I suspect your an old man who doesn’t understand the younger generation.
Leave it to Beaver has been off the air for awhile now.
JDW
February 21st, 2013
9:45 am
@Tiberius….”I shouldn’t be taxed for a failing product if I can find something better”
Your basic failing is that you think you…just because it is you I suppose…should be exempt from the requirements of society.
Get over yourself.
You like everyone else is bound by the rules set forth in our way of government. Again your redress is to elect people that agree we should have an optional tax system…good luck with that…till then quit your whining and be part of the solution not the problem.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
February 21st, 2013
9:47 am
Cheesy, I interact with ALL cross sections of society on a daily basis. As with every group, there are standouts, but by and large high schoolers today know how to take tests, but don’t really know anything else.
Perfect myrmidon liberals. Unable to think.
JDW
February 21st, 2013
9:47 am
@Tibeirus…”I suspect JDW hasn’t interacted with a cross section of high school graduates in a looooong time.”
As usual you would be WAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY wrong.
Aquagirl
February 21st, 2013
9:47 am
I shouldn’t be taxed for a failing product if I can find something better.
And there’s the MAH WALLET philosophy in a nutshell. “I don’t like the product, never mind I have elected representatives. Anyone else’s input is secondary to MEMEMEMEMEMEME.”
Your personal judgement on a government program is not grounds for withholding your taxes. That idea is distinctly and completely anti-Constitution.
All these professed Tea Partiers and Constitutionalists are typically narcissistic tightwads, who just can’t stand living in a Republic where they can’t make every single decision themselves.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
February 21st, 2013
9:48 am
Here is the dirty little secret about all this.
If this program really helped poor kids as they so disingenuously claim.
Republicans wouldn’t be for it.
JF McNamara
February 21st, 2013
9:48 am
This was a tough, tough read of justification.
Most other states have a need based element and they seem to be doing just fine. The economist cooked up a scenario that had nothing to do with schools when he simply could have used schools. Why?
barking frog
February 21st, 2013
9:48 am
JDW
Seems to me our country has done ok over the last couple of hundred years…my guess is we have done just fine…always need to get better but it is hard to argue with the results.
………………………………………
but you said..
It is their job to build and operate a world class education system and that is where their efforts should be directed.
indicating
we do not have such a system….
JDW
February 21st, 2013
9:49 am
@Tiberius…”I interact with ALL cross sections of society on a daily basis”
“Would you like fries with that” is not interaction.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
February 21st, 2013
9:50 am
“Again your redress is to elect people that agree we should have an optional tax system…good luck with that”
In case you missed it, electing people that agree with me got us the first significant blow to the public school stranglehold on our kids – the charter school amendment. I’m still working on the rest, and suspect I’ll be even more successful in the future.
And the solution is EXACTLY what I’m working on.
And it doesn’t include repeating the failings of the system you worship.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
February 21st, 2013
9:52 am
I see that no lib on here will step up and debate this point:
“See, JDW, YOUR solution is akin to forcing people to pay a car repair shop that doesn’t do the job right, while giving me the option to have my car repaired at the shop that will do the job right and pay there, too.
Simply put, no amount of other people’s money will satisfy you libs.”
JDW obviously isn’t up to it. How about you, Cheesy? Aquagirl?
td
February 21st, 2013
9:54 am
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
February 21st, 2013
9:41 am
Kyle wants better schools. You disagree with that?
Yes when its my tax dollars paying for a trust fund baby to go to private school.
You want your kid in private school. Pay for it yourself moocher.
Let us get serious. The children of the rich are NOT going to be going to Charter schools and no matter how much of a voucher is offered they will NOT be attending the voucher schools.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
February 21st, 2013
9:55 am
“Your personal judgement on a government program is not grounds for withholding your taxes. That idea is distinctly and completely anti-Constitution. ”
First, I never stated your first sentence. You may not speak for me in ANY regard, Aquagirl.
Second, you are (with the exception of JDW and Cheesy), the LAST person to decide what is Constitutional. You’re not equipped to argue that point.
Tinkerella
February 21st, 2013
9:57 am
The way I see it, vouchers….or for that matter…free private school to all would still present a problem to those who don’t live around those high performing private schools even if they could get in. How are working parents going to get them there? It might work for a few families who can get their kids across town every day but for the average working two parent family, even with school choice the obstacles are still there. This isn’t going to solve much for very many students in my opinion. I can (barely) afford a private school for mine but I can’t get them there daily with both of us as parents working.
Hillbilly D
February 21st, 2013
9:57 am
As with every group, there are standouts, but by and large high schoolers today know how to take tests, but don’t really know anything else.
Over the years, I had a lot of people in the 18-22 range work for me. These people weren’t dumb by any means but they didn’t really know how to do anything because they’d never been taught.
It’s way past time to drop all the “flavor of the month” education theories and get back to stressing the basics. If a person can read, write and do basic math, they can learn to do most anything else, if they are so inclined. This needs to be stressed in the first 3-4 years. If a child is behind at age 8 or 9, odds are they are never going to catch up. Scrap the testing mania and get back to teaching.
As our friend Josef often says, there’s a difference in schooling and education.
A return to discipline is the first thing that is needed. As Daddy used to say, “Even if somebody is dumb as a rock, they can sit there and behave”.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
February 21st, 2013
9:57 am
the LAST person to decide what is Constitutional. You’re not equipped to argue that point.
Neither are you.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
February 21st, 2013
9:58 am
““Would you like fries with that” is not interaction.”
When you can’t debate, insult.
ND
February 21st, 2013
9:58 am
The idea that people only innovate and advance in technology when forced to do so by competition is one of the biggest capitalist fallacies and pretty clearly shows the disconnect between the mentality of people who are driven by money and people who are driven by self-fulfillment. Creative and innovative people innovate because they want to, not because other people force them to do so.
JDW
February 21st, 2013
9:58 am
@Barking Frog…”we do not have such a system”
Actually….we do…can it get better yes. Why don’t you do some reading…
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/01/why-gloomy-pundits-and-politicians-are-wrong-about-americas-education-system/267278/
Really cool new study from the Economic Policy Institute. Among other things it tells us….
“First, our most disadvantaged students have improved their math scores faster than most comparable countries. Second, our most advantaged students are world-class readers.”
But wait there is more…
“But by focusing on misleading national averages rather than apples-to-apples comparisons, U.S. education critics are missing lessons that could lead to good policy. The big takeaway is that we’re not doing as badly as the pundits are claiming,” Carnoy said. “Our advantaged kids are doing very well in reading, as well as anybody in the world, and in math, disadvantaged kids have improved more than almost any other country. We’re making progress, and we should be finding out why we’re making that progress, or identifying what appears to be working, rather than saying we should all run over to Finland. Don’t run to Finland if you want to learn about disadvantaged kids, because they’re going in the wrong direction.”
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
February 21st, 2013
10:01 am
Cheesy, the difference is that I’ve not only read the Constitution, but understand the principles on which it was written through the writings of the people who formed this nation.
Sadly, you, JDW and Aquagirl have not.
Aquagirl
February 21st, 2013
10:03 am
JDW obviously isn’t up to it. How about you, Cheesy? Aquagirl?
Inability to debate insane tangents is no indication of our shortcomings.
Government services are not car repair shops. Duh. A car repair shop is there to make money, not insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, and promote the general welfare of all US citizens. A car repair shop operates nothing like fire or police services. They follow completely different rules.
Republicans sank so low into corporate worship they thought Mitt Romney was a good idea. I can’t think of any better indictment of this type of thinking. It’s sheer idiocy promoted by those who are apparently unable to read the US Constitution.
In short, I dunno how you get from government services to car repair shops, that’s your problem. I’m sorry your parents didn’t invest enough in your education.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
February 21st, 2013
10:03 am
ND, do you work for a living? Because you likely wouldn’t have a job right now if it were not for competition.
Unless you work in government.
MANGLER
February 21st, 2013
10:05 am
Can the less affluent family that chooses to voucher their child to a private school count on that voucher to cover the entire tuition costs, like taxes do for public schools, or will they then be on the hook for the rest? What about transportation to the private school? Lunches?
If the less affluent will be on the hook to cover what the vouchers will not, then they are not going to be able to “choose” a more expensive private school. So who’s really going to be benefiting from this?
JDW
February 21st, 2013
10:07 am
@Tiberius…”When you can’t debate, insult.”
Cry me a river Mr. I can dish but oooooooooooo I am special so leave me alone.
Let’s have a look at some of your greatest debating lines…these are just from the last half hour or so.
“Pure, unadulterated hyperbolic nonsense”
Or
“Try reality sometime.”
Or
“They know how to take standardize tests, but don’t really know anything. Kinda like liberals in general.”
Or
“It was YOU who chose to put up the stupid conclusion ”
Or
“Simply put, no amount of other people’s money will satisfy you libs.”
Or
“Perfect myrmidon liberals. Unable to think.”
Or
“Second, you are (with the exception of JDW and Cheesy), the LAST person to decide what is Constitutional. You’re not equipped to argue that point.”
You want a debate…stop pontificating, bring evidence and realize that you are not in fact the final authority on the Constitution.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
February 21st, 2013
10:07 am
“Government services are not car repair shops. Duh. A car repair shop is there to make money”
Another failing grade for Aquagirl.
A car repair shop is the there to provide a SERVICE, first and foremost. That the service might make money is a part of the equation, but you don’t make money without first providing the service. Think: Cause and Effect.
Schools are there to provide a service, just as the car repair shop.
But your inability to debate the point about paying for something bad and paying again for the same thing that is successful is noted.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
February 21st, 2013
10:08 am
Cheesy, the difference is that I’ve not only read the Constitution, but understand the principles on which it was written through the writings of the people who formed this nation.
Reading words on a piece of paper means nothing if you cant comprehend them.
P.S. The founding fathers were all Liberals
Dusty
February 21st, 2013
10:09 am
Still with the name calling here! If you don’t like what your school is doing JOIN THE PTA or write your representative.
My children are out of that level of schooling now. But when they were there, I was there too when things got “rotten”.. When I found teachers as dumb as rocks, I went to the principal. When the principle said things like “When I had a cold I did not miss a day or leave school” referring to an asthma attack, I went beyond him. My children learned discipline at home but I never learned to accept poor teachers. Parents must take an active interest in their children’s scholarship.
That is what Kyle is doing. He wants better school for ALL children. Perhaps, you of little minds, might accept his invitation to discuss the subject instead of displaying your vocabulary of derogatory names & notions. . Act like adults!!
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
February 21st, 2013
10:09 am
“You want a debate”
I’d love one.
Too bad you’re just not up to snuff in providing one, JDW.
barking frog
February 21st, 2013
10:10 am
JDW
@Barking Frog…”we do not have such a system”
…………………………………………….
I did not say that, you indicated that….
Your vast reading led you to extol the virtues of
the education system of Finland compared to the
US education system and I asked how the products
of Finnish education were doing in the space race but
I’m glad to see I have led you to extol the virtues of
the products of the US education system.