Obamacare fallout: Part-time employees losing their health insurance
With Obamacare now about 10 months from taking effect, get used to more stories like this one from the Orlando Sentinel:
Universal Orlando plans to stop offering medical insurance to part-time employees beginning next year, a move the resort says has been forced by the federal government’s health-care overhaul.
The giant theme-park resort, which generates more than $1 billion in annual revenue, began informing employees this month that it will offer health-insurance to part-timers “only until December 31, 2013.”
The reason: Universal currently offers part-time workers a limited insurance plan that has low premiums but also caps the payout of benefits. For instance, Universal’s plan costs about $18 a week for employee-only coverage but covers only a maximum of $5,000 a year toward hospital stays. There are similar caps for other services.
Those types of insurance plans — sometimes referred to as “mini-med” plans — will no longer be permitted under the federal Affordable Care Act. Beginning in 2014, the law will prohibit insurance plans that impose annual monetary limits on essential medical care such, as hospitalization, or on overall spending.
The theory behind Obamacare comes down to this: Liberals believe it is better for you to pay a fine — er, tax — for not having the wonderful health insurance you can’t afford than to continue having the less-wonderful but affordable insurance you already have.
And if you don’t work at the Universal Studios theme park and still buy the line that “if you like your plan, you can keep it,” you might want to read what Colleen Medill, who teaches employee benefits law at the University of Nebraska, told Glenn Reynolds for his Instapundit blog:
I am deeply into studying the impact of Obamacare on employers, and I have been communicating with highly sophisticated ERISA lawyers who are advising employers, from Fortune 50 companies to small firms under 50 employees, on whether to keep or drop or modify their employer group health plans.
It has become very clear to everyone involved who is analytical and not ideological that the rational strategy, for both large and small firms, is to cease providing health care insurance to employees.
No company wants to admit that they are considering eliminating health insurance as an option, or be the first one to drop their health insurance plan, but once a competitor does so, the preference cascade will begin. The clear sentiment is “We will not be the first one to drop our health insurance plan, but we would be a close second.”
The coming preference cascade for employer group health plans is what the Democrats fear the most, because Obamacare was sold to the masses as “if you like your health insurance plan, you can keep it.”
The people who really know the law, and who have been following the avalanche of regulations, have already figured this out. It will take a while for this specialized knowledge to seep downward, because right now only $800+ an hour ERISA attorneys and the most sophisticated HR people understand how Obamacare really works.
Here’s a word to the wise: When a law benefits lawyers who charge $800-plus per hour and leads to fewer benefits for part-time employees, it is not going to be the boon to lower-income people that its advocates claimed it would be.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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361 comments Add your comment
JDW
February 20th, 2013
3:05 pm
@Bruno…”The vast majority of the folks without insurance right now aren’t going to be pulling any money from their own pockets in the future.”
Point is it will cost us less to pay those bills by insuring them than it does today when they end up with indigent care.
Bruno
February 20th, 2013
3:05 pm
Not going to work…doesn’t work anywhere in the world.
That so?? I ran a cash practice for 20 years in Atlanta. My fees were only a fraction of what “insurance” practitioners charged. To this day, I pay cash for all of the health care I need, and receive a substantial discount every time.
The bottom line is that insurance (of any type) is intended to be a hedge against catastrophic loss. Once you start including routine costs, such as a typical GP visit, it’s no longer insurance.
md
February 20th, 2013
3:07 pm
JohnS, you are more than welcome to go start your own corporation and then you can make all the decisions as to pay and benefits. You can pay everybody $100 an hour and give them all kinds of freebies……..or, you can sit on your computer and complain.
I’m guessing if you did get your own company and knew how hard it was to just keep the doors open some days you may change your stance…..but that’s just a guess.
Bruno
February 20th, 2013
3:07 pm
Point is it will cost us less to pay those bills by insuring them than it does today when they end up with indigent care.
How so, JDW.
BTW, in case you were unaware, the majority of our health care dollars are spent treating preventable conditions. And when I say preventable, it’s in reference to an unhealthy lifestyle, not in reference to not going to a doctor sooner.
Rockerbabe
February 20th, 2013
3:11 pm
Oh Kyle, stop justifiying overt greed by these corporations and their henchmen. Obamacare is a crafted solution to having 50+ million citizens unable to purchase private medical insurance and not being able to access the system in a fair and decent manner. You and the GOP haven’t put forth any credible ideas or plans that address this problem now or in the past. So stop complaining that Obamacare was enacted. If the GOP had worked with the President, maybe some of these issues wouldn’t be coming up now.
The President has absolutely no control over private corporations that choose to abuse and mistreat their employees. Especially since so many of the companies are making record profits and their managers are receiving large bonsas checks. To cut rank and file employees so they will not be eligible for benefits including medical insurance is nothing more than rank abuse fueled by overt greed. I truly hope the Lord strikes down these robber barons; more importantly, the general public needs to STOP frequenting these establishments and make their reasons known.
JDW
February 20th, 2013
3:12 pm
@md…”The burden of paying is basically unchanged, and may even go up if the newly insured increase their trips to the doctor because society just handed them a shiny new insurance card…….no cost to them.”
I think the total cost of providing care, preventative and when needed, will be less than the cost of waiting until they hit the emergency room.
cranky old man
February 20th, 2013
3:14 pm
Well, if the end result will be to de-couple health care from employment, it might not be such a bad thing in the long run. Most people with employer sponsored health plans have no idea that the premiums they pay each month are only a fraction of the total premium, with the rest picked up by the employer. That is one of the many contributing factors which make our health care the most expensive in the world.
Also, if health insurance is not tied to a specific job, people will have more freedom to switch jobs, or even start their own businesses. No doubt, in the short run there will be pain and disruptions, particularly for those who are profiting from the current status quo, and those (myself included) who have satisfactory employer provided health care. But when some new equilibrium is eventually reached, it should improve the economy overall
Bruno
February 20th, 2013
3:16 pm
Obamacare is a crafted solution to having 50+ million citizens unable to purchase private medical insurance and not being able to access the system in a fair and decent manner.
Lie #1.
You and the GOP haven’t put forth any credible ideas or plans that address this problem now or in the past.
Lie #2.
So stop complaining that Obamacare was enacted. If the GOP had worked with the President, maybe some of these issues wouldn’t be coming up now.
Lie #3.
Nice rant, Rockerbabe. Next time try to include some truth.
md
February 20th, 2013
3:16 pm
Your post JDW:
“@Kyle…”operating income of only $27M, a (pre-tax) margin of 0.6%.”
I said cash flow not operating income…they, as do many large companies, do a wonder job of financial engineering to avoid paying taxes.
For the most part businesses are valued on free cash flow.”
This post made no distinction, not that it really matters, as even operating cash flows can include working capital, which can include cash from debt……..
And my comments were basically countering the notion that businesses are valued primarily on cash flow…..unless you want to change your definition of “for the most part”.
Cash flow is one metric when valuing a company, but as I said earlier if that is the only metric you look at or if you use that metric as the predominant metric then good luck………
JDW
February 20th, 2013
3:17 pm
@Bruno…”That so?? I ran a cash practice for 20 years in Atlanta. My fees were only a fraction of what “insurance” practitioners charged. To this day, I pay cash for all of the health care I need, and receive a substantial discount every time.”
But you did not provide emergency care, hospitalization or anything else outside of a narrow specialty. While you may know enough to negotiate a decent rate that is not the case with the average citizen who would be flabbergasted to know the difference in the “rack” rate vs. the insured rate in 99% of all medical facilities in the US.
Steve
February 20th, 2013
3:18 pm
“Universal Orlando, a theme park resort in Florida that generates more than $1 billion dollars in annual revenue, plans to drop insurance coverage for its part-time employees at the end of this year — a tactic to avoid providing its workers with adequate health benefits under Obamacare. ”
Screw the little guy!
Bruno
February 20th, 2013
3:18 pm
think the total cost of providing care, preventative and when needed, will be less than the cost of waiting until they hit the emergency room.
Sounds like a nice dream, JDW. Here are the facts:
http://www.pwc.com/us/en/healthcare/publications/the-price-of-excess.jhtml
JDW
February 20th, 2013
3:19 pm
@md…you are on 12:32…check 12:19 which was the first post on the subject.
Steve
February 20th, 2013
3:21 pm
Heaven forbid we should promote the less expensive approach of preventative medicine for all so we reduce the costs of treating people with what should have been preventable but very expensive health conditions later…that would just make too much sense.
md
February 20th, 2013
3:23 pm
“I think the total cost of providing care, preventative and when needed, will be less than the cost of waiting until they hit the emergency room.”
And I don’t see it.
Now, we get to pay for the cost of the insurance, then we get to pay for the preventative care, and then as Bruno suggests we get to pay for the lifestyle ailments when folks don’t listen to their doctor and do what is bad for them anyway.
Preventative care will not stop a smoker from getting cancer, so that same patient still ends up in the emergency room or in a hospital with major bills.
Same for the drug abuser…
Same with the obese individual that was in the ER due to a heart attack…..
Insurance isn’t going to change their behaviors, the way I see it it may even compound the problem because these type individuals won’t change their behavior BECAUSE they now have free insurance…….
Steve
February 20th, 2013
3:24 pm
md, so you’re saying that preventative care does not work? REALLY?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 20th, 2013
3:25 pm
Nice rant, Rockerbabe. Next time try to include some truth.
LOL. Good one Bruno. Maybe next time you try to do some refuttal other than
Lie #1
Lie #2
Lie #3
Such class!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 20th, 2013
3:27 pm
err, rebuttal, not refuttal
md
February 20th, 2013
3:29 pm
“md, so you’re saying that preventative care does not work? REALLY?”
That’s what I’m saying. Going to the doctor and listening and doing as the doctor orders are 2 totally different concepts…….
People that end up in the ER due to smoking know smoking is bad for them…..
People that end up in the ER due to heart attacks know eating that fried food is bad for them…..
People that end up in the ER due to accidents will remain constant…..
It isn’t necessarily about insuring people or preventative care, it’s about changing behaviors……and there is no insurance that will do that.
md
February 20th, 2013
3:30 pm
Finn…..still haven’t answered why Medicare will not work for all……
Bruno
February 20th, 2013
3:32 pm
JDW, Jefferson, indigo, et.al.–If you guys want to know why I may seem to have a chip on my shoulder re: health care costs, here’s why:
http://www.ahrq.gov/research/ria19/expendria.htm
From the article:
“Half of the population spends little or nothing on health care, while 5 percent of the population spends almost half of the total amount.”
JDW
February 20th, 2013
3:32 pm
@Bruno…”Sounds like a nice dream, JDW. Here are the facts:”
No one disputes the waste…question is how to reduce it. The leaders in doing so, noted in this report and others do so via Single Payer…not requiring cash at time of service.
As for the contention that providing insurance will ultimately cost less than not…the report does not address that specific detail. Some percentage in the behavioral and clinical waste categories will be mitigated by providing better care.
Aquagirl
February 20th, 2013
3:32 pm
Bruno attended the Joe Wilson Skool Of Refudiation.
Steve
February 20th, 2013
3:33 pm
Yeah, I agree. Assisting people to quit smoking, teaching people how to eat healthier, encouraging forms of exercise, medications that lower cholesterol, colorectal screenings – none of these are worth it. Skip all of your physicals and hope for the best! That’s the Republican way.
JDW
February 20th, 2013
3:34 pm
@Bruno…”“Half of the population spends little or nothing on health care, while 5 percent of the population spends almost half of the total amount.””
Yep it is a problem…of course to address it you got to talk sense into the “death panel” loons that made this whole process a great deal more complicated.
Politico
February 20th, 2013
3:36 pm
No ball spiking…………..
Dusty
February 20th, 2013
3:36 pm
Where in the world did these utopian liberals come from?
I mean they don’t believe you can pay for something with cash. With what? Credit cards, WIC cards, Medicaid cards, school lunch permits, PeachCare cards, etc. It’s the cards, baby. Who needs cash.
They think that “someone” should furnish them with “free” healthcare, jobs, homes, transportation, childcare. You name it.
That defense of your country is a worthless loss of funds.
Higher taxes are fine since others can spend your money better.
They think businesses should make a profit only to benefit the employees and most certainly not the ones who directed or invested in the business.
That a huge debt is a normal necessity.for citizen and country alike.
How did we get a population so lost and demanding in blind dependence on others?
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 20th, 2013
3:37 pm
Read an interesting column the other day where the guy was pointing out how Obama is taking advantage of his most loyal supporters, young Americans. Column pointed out the debt being left to them and how Obamacare holds down costs of elderly premiums by overpricing the premiums of the young.
Reminded me when I was working for an employer, who offered life insurance on a group basis. Being youthful, I thought great deal, not realizing that the employer was not contributing and the rates were adjusted to help the older employees. The rate for me in my 20’s was less than that for a fifty year old, but I didn’t how much I was being taken advantage of until I ran into a life insurance agent. He challenged me to get three estimates based on my age. I did and saw that my excess premium was going to subsidize the older workers. I dropped the employee coverage and moved to a private plan. The same thing is going on with Obamacare, but many of the youth will not realize it.
I have always thought Soc Sec was the same scam. Take money from a guy/girl just starting out whose net worth is closely tied to how much gas is in his car, and give that money to a blue haired widow with hundreds of thousands in the bank. Taking from those who can least afford it, to give to those who don’t need it, is immoral
indigo
February 20th, 2013
3:37 pm
Bruno – 3:02
All living Nobel Laureates in science, including Biology, believe in evolution.
Are these scientists junk scientists?
Steve
February 20th, 2013
3:38 pm
Dusty – nothing is for “free.” But some things make more sense when streamlined via everyone paying into the pool via taxes. We already do that with socialized medicine in this country for seniors, for Congress, for military folks and veterans, and it works a heck of a lot better than the mess that is private health insurance.
JDW
February 20th, 2013
3:38 pm
@Dusty…”I mean they don’t believe you can pay for something with cash. ”
Don’t pay much attention to those little slips the insurance company sends you I see. Just so happens I have one on my desk…doctors visit. Cash price $175…Insurance price $123…why would you want to pay cash?
md
February 20th, 2013
3:39 pm
” teaching people how to eat healthier,”
Here’s a clue for you Steve…..we use taxpayer dollars to fund an assistance program called “education”, it is designed to help people better themselves so they don’t have to end up on welfare or some other gov’t entitlement program.
Currently, close to 1/3 of eligible individuals choose not to participate…….
You are quite welcome to fool yourself about all the wonderful and good programs Steve, but folks still have to CHOOSE to participate……
Humans will still be humans in this new program too……..
JDW
February 20th, 2013
3:42 pm
@Rafe…”give that money to a blue haired widow with hundreds of thousands in the bank”
Yep nice narrative..except for one little detail…the average 65 year old little blue haired lady has $56,000 to last the rest of her life.
Dusty
February 20th, 2013
3:42 pm
AQUAGIRL attended the Minor School of Mirky Minnows (but they had great bowl games)…..
md
February 20th, 2013
3:43 pm
“We already do that with socialized medicine in this country for seniors, for Congress, for military folks and veterans, and it works a heck of a lot better than the mess that is private health insurance.”
Now you are in the boat with Finn…….and since Finn won’t tell us why medicare for all won’t work maybe you can…….
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 20th, 2013
3:43 pm
Steve
Recent studies have shown that annual physicals are not as beneficial for long lives, as have been promoted by the medical industry. The difference in life expectancy is not that different among the two groups.
md
February 20th, 2013
3:46 pm
“Don’t pay much attention to those little slips the insurance company sends you I see. Just so happens I have one on my desk…doctors visit. Cash price $175…Insurance price $123…why would you want to pay cash?”
It’s called an EOB, and that isn’t the cash price, that is the rate the doctor has charged knowing the insurance company is going to pay less than that number………
Cash prices come from providers directly, you’ll never see that price on an EOB.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 20th, 2013
3:46 pm
We’re still waiting on the proof of evolution.
Still.
Waiting.
Dusty
February 20th, 2013
3:47 pm
JDW
I’m surprised that the near thousands of people you directed (as you once told us) did not find you a ;better insurance company or a better doctor. Maybe you should look up Bruno.
Aquagirl
February 20th, 2013
3:47 pm
“Great bowl games…” OK, gotta admit that one cracked me up.
Bruno
February 20th, 2013
3:49 pm
Steve: Heaven forbid we should promote the less expensive approach of preventative medicine for all so we reduce the costs of treating people with what should have been preventable but very expensive health conditions later…that would just make too much sense.
md: It isn’t necessarily about insuring people or preventative care, it’s about changing behaviors……and there is no insurance that will do that.
md–It’s absolutely astounding to me how easily folks like Steve fall for some of the pipe dream arguments advanced by the Dems. The bottom line is that health comes from within, not without, and primarily depends upon our lifestyles. Having insurance never caused anyone to embrace a healthier lifestyle. And as you pointed out above, knowing something is “bad” for us isn’t enough of a motivator for most folks.
md
February 20th, 2013
3:49 pm
And if it’s not an EOB but an invoice, then the same thing occurs. Docs know insurance companies are involved it’s an entirely different price as they have to adjust their numbers accordingly….
indigo
February 20th, 2013
3:51 pm
Aesop – 3:46
That proof already exists.
It lies in molecular biology and the fossil record.
It requires a considerable amount of learning in these subjects to fully understand the proof, at least a Masters degree.
Needless to say, your 8th grade homeschool level of learning means evolution is utterly beyond your comprehension.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 20th, 2013
3:52 pm
We’ve got encyclopedia’s slap full of all the liberal ideas that became complete and total murderous disasters all through the history of the world but yet they still persist.
Do they get their kicks inflicting carnage and pain on others while enriching themselves?
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 20th, 2013
3:52 pm
JDW
The statement was not intended to be all inclusive, but most of the wealthy in America are elderly, takes time to build wealth. Most of the destitute are young. Wealth transfer between the groups should not be automatic, as it is. Some young people need every penny they earn to survive, others are making enough to contribute. Some old people need everything they can get to survive, others spend theirs on Cruises and day spas. If we are going to continue Soc Sec, means testing should be used on both ends.
indigo
February 20th, 2013
3:53 pm
Aesop
For you
Can you understand it?
http://records.viu.ca/~johnstoi/essays/courtenay1.htm
md
February 20th, 2013
3:53 pm
“It lies in molecular biology and the fossil record.”
All life must have a beginning in order to evolve indigo…..so the question becomes where did it start?
That is not known and is yet another educated guess…………
Jhunt163
February 20th, 2013
3:54 pm
For all you con tools who think global warming is a liberal myth.
Debunked:
http://judithcurry.com/2012/12/21/never-look-a-polar-bear-in-the-eye/
Bruno
February 20th, 2013
3:54 pm
No one disputes the waste…question is how to reduce it. The leaders in doing so, noted in this report and others do so via Single Payer…not requiring cash at time of service.
JDW–One of the principles which is taught in actuarial science is that of “consumer indifference”. In short, when people aren’t paying for something with their own funds, they are far less careful in their spending habits. Hence the need for copays and deductibles.
The bottom line is that whenever something is “free”, people want lots of it.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 20th, 2013
3:55 pm
Needless to say, your 8th grade homeschool level of learning means evolution is utterly beyond your comprehension.
indie – It’s easier to say “Aesop, yes, we don’t have any proof.” Why do you waste all this effort twisting yourself into a pretzel?
By the way, my “eighth grade homeschool education” provides me with enough common sense to know you don’t strip off your clothes and lie on the floor to make an academic point. And you?