Question on new stadium remains: Why so soon?
If you haven’t yet read Jeff Schultz’s column today about whether it would be “the worst thing in the world if the Falcons moved to the suburbs,” I recommend it. Spoiler alert: Schultz thinks it would not be the worst thing in the world if that were to happen.
Although I think downtown is ultimately far preferable to the suburbs for the Falcons’ home games, Schultz makes a number of good arguments. But this is the part to which I want to draw your attention (with emphasis added):
The [San Francisco] 49ers couldn’t get a downtown stadium deal done, so they’re moving to Santa Clara, 30 to 45 minutes away. … By the way, Candlestick Park is 53 years old.
The [New York] Giants left the old Meadowlands stadium, which was 34 years old. The [Miami] Dolphins left the Orange Bowl, which was built in 1939. The [Dallas] Cowboys and [New England] Patriots left stadiums that were opened in 1971. The [Washington] Redskins left RFK Stadium, built in 1961.
The Georgia Dome opened in 1992.
For me, much of what’s disquieting about the drive to ditch the Dome is the timing. In 2017, by which time the Falcons insist they’ll be in a new stadium, the Dome will be a mere 25 years old.
The stadium the 49ers are leaving is twice as old (53) as the Georgia Dome will be in 2017. The same goes for the Dolphins’ old stadium (48) when their new stadium opened in 1987.
The stadium the Giants and New York Jets replaced was about as old (34) as most Georgians probably believed the Dome would be when it was replaced. Ditto for the old stadiums of the Cowboys (38), Patriots (29) and Redskins (36).
I think it’s fair to assume most Atlanta residents recognize that the Dome will have to be replaced at some point in time. I think it’s also fair to assume most of us wonder why that point in time is coming so soon after the Dome was built.
Of course, the Dome will need money for repairs if it stays open. As the AJC has reported, professional estimates of those costs run from $115 million by 2020 (when the Dome would hit 28 years of age) to $401 million by approximately 2035 (when it would be 43 years old).
So, it seems questionable to most people outside the Falcons organization that the Dome has to be replaced so soon. If we having this discussion five to 10 years from now, it would be going a lot differently.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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545 comments Add your comment
Politico
February 15th, 2013
4:33 pm
Kyle
You already know the answer. Because Blank (the Falcons) and the NFL want it. Simple as that.
Let’s not kid ourselves. The deal will be done. Most of the posturing from Deal and the Legislature is just that…. posturing. There will certainly be a few who will stick to their guns, but in the end, most will come on board.
I’m with you, but it is going to happen.
md
February 15th, 2013
4:39 pm
Just keep hitting the snowbirds with the hotel tax on their way through, they will be none the wiser……
indigo
February 15th, 2013
4:41 pm
I seem to remember, years ago, that the Minnesota Vikings located their stadium in the suburb of Bloomington.
Don't Tread
February 15th, 2013
4:50 pm
Two words: skybox revenue. The revenue from these (space rental plus catering plus bartender plus whatever) exceeds the revenue that would be collected by regular seats covering the same area, probably by a lot. And you can still put regular seats underneath/over most of it, or stack the skyboxes.
That’s ok…I have a big widescreen HDTV to watch the game on if I so choose…without all the hassle (and parking lot attacks).
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 15th, 2013
4:52 pm
Be careful of what you wish for, the Chicago Bears rebuilt Soldier Field, now it looks like a spaceship crash landed on the lakefront.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 15th, 2013
4:53 pm
md
Don’t know where I saw it the other day, but I believe the AJC. Someone made an excellent case about why this motel tax is not just something out of towners pay for. The people of Atlanta pay for it indirectly.
Kyle
Why is no one talking about replacing Lambeau or the Superdome in NOLA. This bunk about having to keep up with the rest of the NFL is about as legit as the bunk about the dome needing $350,000 in repairs. Arthur is not making as much with the team in the Dome as he feels he should, is the reason we need a new stadium, nothing more, nothing less.
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
4:56 pm
My take on this is that the Falcons aren’t going anywhere. This is just Arthur playing the same ol’ game that’s been played time and again. Cough up some public bucks for my business or I’ll take my football and go somewhere else. This isn’t even a question of making the Falcons a profitable business, any NFL franchise is a license to print money, basically. If you can’t make a profit with an NFL team, you’re a doofus, just to put it plainly. This is just Arthur wanting to make more money and there’s nothing wrong with that. Of course, it’s easier to make more money, if you can find somebody else to pay the bills. So I don’t really care what Arthur does or where he does it but he needs to do it with his own funds or some other private funds, if he can find somebody to fork some out.
Arthur is smart enough to know that he can play this little game and the city and state will give him whatever he wants.
JDW
February 15th, 2013
4:58 pm
I am a bit ambivalent on this…on the one hand I think the Dome was and remains a huge mistake…football indoors in Atlanta BAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
On the other it has been built and it seems a bit silly to spend a bunch of tax money on a new venue unless there is a tangible ROI which I have not seen.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 15th, 2013
4:58 pm
NASA predected the asteriod would come close.
It did.
What are you talking about?
indie – This morning nasa had the Roid showing up at 1:15 pm, it didn’t arrive until 2:24. This is basic stuff we’re talking about. This thing wasn’t speeding up or slowing down nor was it stuck in traffic. We’re talking basic trig here and they blew it.
Meanwhile, they spend all their time bobbing around in the ocean, mounting thermometers next to building exhaust vents and forging climate data, even though their mission is to KEEP AN EYE ON SPACE.
Seems as though we’re not getting the bang for our buck.
Centrist
February 15th, 2013
5:00 pm
Why is Mayor Reed now so hot on replacing it?
(How rich will he be after 8 years of being Mayor?)
The Ghost of Willie B
February 15th, 2013
5:01 pm
Why not build a multi-use entertainment, shopping and residential development on the site of the old GM plant in Doraville. There is easy access to two interstates and a MARTA station as well as major local roads. The facility could host other events and be an entertainment draw all year long. Also, if it were a privately owned facility it would be much easier to manage the hobos/peddlers/gypsy lots that plague downtown.
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
5:04 pm
Blank is on the board of directors of Cox Enterprises, whose media holdings include The Atlanta Journal-Constitution.
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/atlanta-falcons-stadium-debated-at-city-hall/nWNf7/
josef
February 15th, 2013
5:07 pm
I had a lot to say about this, but I think Hillbilly said it all @ 5:04.
This is just yet another act of “The Little Foxes.”
indigo
February 15th, 2013
5:07 pm
Aesop
If you have evidence NASA is forging any data, let’s see it.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
February 15th, 2013
5:12 pm
“If you have evidence NASA is forging any data, let’s see it.”
Pay attention. No claim of forging data was made. Mistakes and mismanagement?
You betcha!
And if they can’t get basic space velocities right, why do we think they can get temperatures right?
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
5:23 pm
josef @ 5:07
They always talk about how these things “help the neighborhood” but Atlanta Stadium and Turner Field have been in pretty much the same location, since 1966 and that neighborhood doesn’t seem to have been helped one bit by it. At least not for the people who actually live there.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
February 15th, 2013
5:29 pm
If you have evidence NASA is forging any data, let’s see it.
He doesn’t because they aren’t.
They are just on the wrong side of the Global Warming political aisle for him so they must be all bad.
NASA seems to think Global Warming is real.
Excuse me if I take their word over an internet redneck.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
February 15th, 2013
5:31 pm
And if they can’t get basic space velocities right, why do we think they can get temperatures right?
They get a helluva lot more right than they get wrong.
They sent a man to the moon basically usually less than a modern PC built 10 years ago.
Have a try at that and let me know how it works out for you.
Let me know when you land something on a dime on Mars.
josef
February 15th, 2013
5:35 pm
Hillbilly
My Uncle Ralph used to call Atlanta “the city the magpies built.” A cache of cheap and tawdry baubles. Its Hubbards will throw away a diamond for a ball of tinfoil,
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
February 15th, 2013
5:36 pm
Bottom line NASA has had a lot more successes than failures.
Do they fail sometimes. Sure. What they are doing isn’t easy.
Considering though they have produced some amazing results.
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
5:40 pm
Sounds like Uncle Ralph was a very smart man. Some folks will do anything for a dollar, especially if they’re the one getting the dollar.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 15th, 2013
5:43 pm
Last Thursday, Certified Consulting Meteorologist Joseph D’Aleo and computer expert E. Michael Smith appeared together on KUSI TV [Video] to discuss the Climategate — American Style scandal they had discovered. This time out, the alleged perpetrators are the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) and the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS).
It seems that stations placed in historically cooler, rural areas of higher latitude and elevation were scrapped from the data series in favor of more urban locales at lower latitudes and elevations. Consequently, post-1990 readings have been biased to the warm side not only by selective geographic location, but also by the anthropogenic heating influence of a phenomenon known as the Urban Heat Island Effect (UHI).
They only like the real hot locations, for some odd reason.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/01/climategate_cru_was_but_the_ti.html
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 15th, 2013
5:49 pm
We need to all realize that the Dome opened in 1992 and that Turner Field opened in 1996. The way things are going, by the time construction is completed for Arthur’s Taj Mahal, the Braves are going to say, well, are we being taken for granted or what? Our stadium is as old as the Dome was when you started planning to replace it, and by the way, it is so hot in July, maybe you should plan on building us one of those new roof optional facilities, like they have in Houston.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 15th, 2013
5:53 pm
md
Here is the article where the writer explains the myth that only snowbirds passing through are adversely effected by the hotel/motel tax.
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-forward/2013/02/12/the-myth-of-the-hotel-motel-tax/
indigo
February 15th, 2013
5:54 pm
Tiberius – 5:12
Aesop said “and forging climate data”
“No claim of forging data was made”, you say?
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
5:54 pm
Rafe
Yep, it never ends.
getalife
February 15th, 2013
5:55 pm
Socialism.
indigo
February 15th, 2013
5:58 pm
Aesop, Tiberius
On Feb. 7, NASA said the asteriod would make it’s closest pass at 2:24.
They were exactly correct.
Do you think myself and others don’t notice your lies?
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-02-07/national/36968849_1_da14-don-yeomans-space-rock
Cutty
February 15th, 2013
6:00 pm
If you don’t live in the city limits of Atlanta, this really has nothing to do with you. The republican led legislature punted on the issue, as we knew they would. Funny how republicans always want to the states and local governments to always make the final decision Until its about something they don’t want. Worry about the corruption on Gwinnett or numerous meth labs scattered around the state. When will Wingfield write about any of that?
josef
February 15th, 2013
6:09 pm
CUTTY
I live in the city limits of Atlanta, And it REALLY has nothing to do with me!
independent thinker
February 15th, 2013
6:12 pm
Kyle – the paint is starting to peel in places and they are having trouble getting the stains out of the urinals- good enough reason to tear that sucker down sooner than later
MarkV
February 15th, 2013
6:18 pm
Aesop’s @4:58 pm,
“This morning nasa had the Roid showing up at 1:15 pm, it didn’t arrive until 2:24.”
Reality check:
March 6, 2012 … the small asteroid 2012 DA14 will pass within about 3.5 Earth radii of the Earth’s surface on February 15, 2013. … with its closest Earth approach occurring about 19:26 UTC …
http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news174.html P
An asteroid passed relatively close to Earth around 2:24 p.m. ET Friday. As scientists had been predicting all week, it did not hit.
19:26 UTC = 2:26 pm EST
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 15th, 2013
6:30 pm
Yes, I digress, the time I was looking at was when it would first enter the Earth’s “ring.”
But they still fake climate data.
getalife
February 15th, 2013
6:43 pm
“Do you think myself and others don’t notice your lies?”
It is all they do so to be expected from them.
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
6:44 pm
My song dedication to the Atlanta stadium:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94bdMSCdw20
“They paved paradise and put up a parking lot”
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 15th, 2013
6:46 pm
Aesop: Glad you didn’t act like a liberal and say something like “At this point, it is over, so what difference does it make”!!!!!!(in a high screeching voice)
You admitted your error, something only conservatives do, good!
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
6:47 pm
the paint is starting to peel in places
independent thinker–You just inspired the next song dedication from Gentle Giant:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIl5RCLNy1E
Extremely deep cut ^^^^^^
indigo
February 15th, 2013
6:48 pm
Aesop
I repeat, do you have actual proof NASA fakes ANY data?
indigo
February 15th, 2013
6:49 pm
Rafe
I have “stood corrected” more than once here.
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
6:49 pm
I live in the city limits of Atlanta
Damn, you guys are making it easy for me tonight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw8mpxp-MHM
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 15th, 2013
6:59 pm
I already provided and still stand by it. See 5:43.
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
7:05 pm
I am a bit ambivalent on this…on the one hand I think the Dome was and remains a huge mistake…football indoors in Atlanta
I was a season ticket holder for the Falcons in the late 80s/early 90s. After the first season in the dome, my buddy and I canceled. Football is meant to be played outdoors. But, as many other posters have pointed out above, it’s a money thing.
They always talk about how these things “help the neighborhood” but Atlanta Stadium and Turner Field have been in pretty much the same location, since 1966 and that neighborhood doesn’t seem to have been helped one bit by it. At least not for the people who actually live there.
A couple of my former clients in Atlanta were long-term Marta Board members. They said that the reason that Marta doesn’t go directly to the stadium is that Joseph Lowery and others led protests to stop Marta from “destroying” their neighborhoods. IMO, it would have been the best thing to happen to some of those neighborhoods. I’m not exactly sure what they thought they were “preserving”.
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
7:06 pm
For Aesop and MarkV:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfcz9VJdz8
indigo
February 15th, 2013
7:07 pm
Aesop – 6:59
I found the site where you got your “proof”.
It is exactly what I expected from you.
Going thru life filled with fundamentalist ignorance is really NOT a good thing.
http://babbleonbabylon.wordpress.com/2009/03/10/american-thinker-propaganda/
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
7:10 pm
Bruno @ 7:05
For what it’s worth, I’ve always heard the reason MARTA doesn’t go to Turner Field is that the Braves didn’t want it. It’d cut into parking revenue.
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
7:14 pm
For Matz:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axc4RRgpsqw
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 15th, 2013
7:15 pm
According to H. Sterling Burnett, a senior fellow at the National Center for Policy Analysis (NCPA), NASA scientist and famous man-made global warming proponent James Hansen’s well-known claims that 1998 was measured as the warmest year on record in the U.S. were the result of a serious mathematical error.
NASA has been forced to correct calculations for temperatures of the last 120 years taken from ground-based measuring facilities. Critics of the man-made global warming theory have long been vocal that these measurements are distorted because the ground, and even more the urban ground where most of these measurements took place, is warmed considerably by human activities and cannot accurately represent atmospheric conditions.
Next.
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
7:17 pm
HD @ 7:10–There may be some truth in that as well.
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
7:20 pm
Bruno
I also was told, by somebody who should know, that in the old Atlanta Stadium deal, the city was supposed to get money after a certain revenue/income figure was reached each year but that the trigger number was never reached, so they never got a dime.
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
7:22 pm
HD–Any feeling toward this Clapton number?? Pretty basic chord sequences, but he seems to hit all of the right notes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMiBbAvsFfY
RC--apoi
February 15th, 2013
7:26 pm
Well, the truth is the Falcons financial support is on the north side and not many people want to risk their life to get to the Georgia Dome. Besides, the bigshots ain’t going to select a 71,000-seat stadium for the Super Bowl if it ain’t in the middle of a entertainment center like New Orleans. How many entertainment places are going to risk big bucks to open places where customers are as likely to get mugged as entertained?
The sooner the Falcons can get out of that Dome, maybe the sooner more fans will come to watch their games. I don’t give a hang how old the Dome is.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 15th, 2013
7:28 pm
Two Russian nuclear-armed bombers circled the western Pacific island of Guam this week in the latest sign of Moscow’s growing strategic assertiveness toward the United States.
Now is not the time to make zero nuclear weapons free world love and peace flower child moron policy. hagel is a Russian dupe as is obozo. They have some karter like complex that should be examined under a microscope, not made an official US National Security action .
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
7:30 pm
I detect the distinct smell of feces coming from the top of this page…….
RC--apoi
February 15th, 2013
7:36 pm
I detect the distinct smell of feces coming from the top of this page…….
Howdy Bruno. Matti says she’s very happy without you.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 15th, 2013
7:36 pm
Raise your hand if you are NOT for a new stadium. We need to know who to Drone.
Stand still….or you can keep walking toward your loved ones.
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
7:38 pm
Bruno @ 7:22
Don’t really have a strong opinion on it, either way. It’s not bad but I wasn’t a fan of most of that period. I thought his Blind Faith and Derek and the Domino years were when he peaked. He had Stevie Winwood and Duane pushing him in those two bands. I’ve always felt he’s a bit over rated. A good player (technically decent but really good feel) but not what he’s been made out to be. (Of course, he’s better than me). He also had Jim Gordon, Bobby Whitlock and Carl Radle in the Dominoes and they kicked it up a notch, as well. This is where I think he did some of his best playing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaTkHCSGn1k
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
7:38 pm
I guess that I’m jumping around a bit, but felt an inspiration to play some Macy Grey:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxyxur73FpQ
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
7:40 pm
By the way, pay special attention to the interplay between Jim Gordon on the drums and Carl Radle on the bass, in my 7:38.
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
7:43 pm
HD–Per Clapton, I don’t think he’s the best guitar player around, especially when you compare some of the songs he covered to the originals, e.g. “After Midnight” by JJ Cale. I’m guessing that his popularity is based on the fact that he has the total package: Good guitar player, good singer, and good looking. It seems these days, just being good looking is enough to make you a bundle, ala Britney Spears.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 15th, 2013
7:47 pm
Indigo, what I was saying is that Germany’s problem extended long before 1929 and long before the US crash.
In fact, the US crash of 1929 was mostly confined to the US because of our isolationist policies we had going at that time.
Germany never had a market crash in 1929 but they were still in the ditch from WW1.
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
7:52 pm
Bruno
Have you ever seen “Tom Dowd and the Language of Music”? He worked on the Manhattan Project and this is a list of the records he worked on (it’s a who’s who). Fascinating guy.
http://www.thelanguageofmusic.com/discography.htm
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 15th, 2013
7:53 pm
Actually, if anyone is in the mood, a really good movie/documentary you can get from Netflix is “Paris:1919″ about the REALLY long meetings the US had with the winners of WW1 on how we were going to get Germany to pay reparations. That was the nail in the coffin on Germany that led to such a horrible economy and directly led to Hitler. The outcome devestated the proud people of Germany and ruined their economy for a decade or more.
This gives an idea of why the people of Germany were so easily swayed into the delirious frenzy they came to with Hitler and kinda explains their ability to commit those atrocities.
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
7:54 pm
Clapton and Winwood from 2010:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBbqpjrbjwY
I’ve often had a strange dream in which I’m on stage playing with some famous rock group, either on guitar or keyboards, but I don’t know how to play, so have to try to throw some random notes in and hope they fit. I guess it’s a variation of the old back in school dream where you can’t find the classroom and have to take a test you don’t know any of the answers to.
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
7:55 pm
Howdy Bruno. Matti says she’s very happy without you.
How would you know??
josef
February 15th, 2013
8:02 pm
BRUNO
I’m caught in a time warp over to Big Daddy’s Liberal Plantation tonight. The Wa-do Warrior is on the verandah and in his cups… Some good tunes here, though.
And don’t let the Du-k-sha-nee get on your nerves. Matti was in last p.m. over there peeing on Valentine’s Day and doing her les miserables act… bless her heart!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 15th, 2013
8:03 pm
Bruno, I bet you aced it!
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
8:03 pm
Have you ever seen “Tom Dowd and the Language of Music”?
Holy Toledo, HD. That cat’s list makes just about anybody else’s look pretty weak in comparison.
From Wishbone Ash:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb-6hEeijn4
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
8:04 pm
The Wa-do Warrior is on the verandah and in his cups…
If one must drink, don’t drink and blog.
I told Kyle once if they ever get this thing where we have to sign in, it needs to have a breathalyzer interlock.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 15th, 2013
8:07 pm
Any talk of the best guitar players without a mention of Jimmy Page is just empty and hollow -
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8nv30_led-zeppelin-in-my-time-of-dying-19_music#.UR7afmebFYU
You really have to just marvel at it.
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
8:10 pm
Bruno
One of the interesting things in the documentary is that Tom said, after the war was over, he decided to go back to school and get his degree in nuclear physics. I forget which university he went to but it was one of the major schools in the country. Anyway, he said that things they were teaching him had been disproven during work on the Manhattan Project. He couldn’t say anything about it and show them where they were wrong because it was all classified information. So he quit school and went into music and the rest is history. Like I said, a fascinating guy. I don’t know a damn thing about nuclear physics but I know enough to know he knew his stuff, when it came to music.
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
8:11 pm
Any talk of the best guitar players without a mention of Jimmy Page is just empty and hollow -
I agree with you, Aesop, though I’m not sure if those in the know share the same opinion.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 15th, 2013
8:12 pm
An even better documentary yiou can get from Netflix is “The Unknown Soldier” where historians in Germany recently got together to compare notes and realized all those atrocities can’t be blamed just on the SS; the common Wehrmacht soldier HAD to be involved to.
German people went ballistic. They were saying “Our grandfathers didn’t do that stuff!. No way!” But the historians held their ground and rounded up actual Wehrmacht soldiers who confessed.
A riveting documentary.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 15th, 2013
8:18 pm
Aesop and Bruno, did you guys see “It Might Get Loud” with Jimmy Page? Awesome. I could a done withiout that whole “The Edge” bullhockey but the Jack White segment was really cool. The Edge is just a bunch of machines and pedals – what a fraud.
My favorite bass player is the Entwhistle from The Who and that documentary that came out two years ago called “Amazing Journey” showed exactly why he is still many many years ahead of anyone else. No one else can do that, or is willing to try to play like that.
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
8:21 pm
I don’t know a damn thing about nuclear physics but I know enough to know he knew his stuff, when it came to music.
You really ought to read up on Richard Feynmann one of these days, HD.
Here’s one of the most comprehensive Physics books out there for the layman, but not an easy read by any stretch of the imagination:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Road-Reality-Complete-Universe/dp/0679776311/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360977630&sr=8-1&keywords=the+road+to+reality
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 15th, 2013
8:26 pm
Jimmy Page #3 Greatest Guitarist according to Rolling Stone
You should know by now I don’t spend a lot of time listening to “experts,” Bruno.
Don’t get me wrong, Hendrix was good, but he has no where near the volume of masterful work that Page does. Although it didn’t help that he died so young.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tlSx0jkuLM
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 15th, 2013
8:29 pm
You guys mentioned #1 and #3, but was Stevie Ray Vaughn #2?
If you can catch his concert in Germany that is always on “concert.tv” on Charter on Demand, it is amazing.
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
8:31 pm
My favorite bass player is the Entwhistle from The Who and that documentary that came out two years ago called “Amazing Journey” showed exactly why he is still many many years ahead of anyone else. No one else can do that, or is willing to try to play like that.
I think we did a theme night over on Bookman’s a while back featuring great bass players. A lot of the avante garde music critics like to bow down to Jaco Pastorius, but I’ll take Entwistle, Chris Squire or even Tony Levin over Pastorius any day.
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
8:37 pm
I don’t put much stock in those “lists”. First of all, there is no “best” in my opinion. There are quite a few guys who are very good and to a certain extent it’s a matter of taste. My particular bitch with the Rolling Stone list is pretty simple; it’s supposed to be the 100 greatest but the list is absent country pickers, bluegrass pickers, jazz pickers, classical pickers, blues players, etc. It’s strictly a list of rock players.
As for Jimmy Page, he’s a good player but I just don’t care for the way Zepplin lifted stuff and didn’t give proper credit.
Some of my favorite guitar players are probably people most of y’all never heard of but that’s ok. Everybody likes what they like, so listen to what you enjoy.
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
8:39 pm
Kind of a simple bass line, but John Wetton plays pretty powerfully on this King Crimson number:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPdnjkM0bEo
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
8:39 pm
One of my favorite bass players is McCartney. Doesn’t have the technical chops (although he’s better than he gets credit for) of some guys but nobody can beat his sense of melody, as far as I’m concerned.
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
8:43 pm
But the historians held their ground and rounded up actual Wehrmacht soldiers who confessed.
No doubt but I’ve known a couple of WWII vets who told me they never took prisoners unless there was an officer around. It goes on, on all sides.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 15th, 2013
8:47 pm
Some of my favorite guitar players are probably people most of y’all never heard of
names?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 15th, 2013
8:50 pm
Listen to the original versions of “My Generation”; the whole thing; the WHOLE song is bass with only minimal guitar. Listen to those riffs. BASS riffs!!!!!!!
All the recent versions Pete Townsend has redone to make his guitar playing the centerpiece.
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
8:51 pm
Finn, I may be a little biased, but no one comes close to Jerry Garcia when it comes to making it up on the fly. His command of music was so great, that he could meld two songs into one, playing transitions that other guitar players can only dream about. I’ll see if I can dig up any gems.
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
8:53 pm
names?
Doyle Dykes, Roy Buchanan, Leo Kottke (Although more folks have probably heard of him), Grady Martin (deceased), Jimmy Capps, Tony Rice, Clarence “Gatemouth” Brown (also deceased), Steve Wariner. That’s not to say I don’t like well-known folks. Some of my favorite better known players would be Carlos Santana, Buddy Guy, Glen Campbell, Jerry Reed, Chet Atkins, Duane Allman and Toy Caldwell (both deceased), Dicky Betts, Elvin Bishop, Steve Howe. I’m leaving out a ton of people there.
Honestly, I’d have a hard time picking 50, it’s often a matter of mood.
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
8:53 pm
oops, messed up my slants
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 15th, 2013
8:55 pm
Listen to the first song from the Who’s Quadrophenia album called “The Real ME” and be amazed at what the bass can actually do.
Oh, MY! Are you kidding me; is that mostly bass?
“Can you see the real me, can ya….CAN YA?”
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
8:55 pm
His command of music was so great, that he could meld two songs into one,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8WnZIyJYSU
Ronnie Prophet used to do this as well, ………………..and sang Silent Night, at the same time.
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
8:55 pm
Here’s a smoking version of “The Eleven” from ‘68. The name of the song comes from the fact that they play it in an 11/8 time signature.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvv970ocLaM
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
9:00 pm
Ronnie Prophet used to do this as well, ………………..and sang Silent Night, at the same time.
Not picking at your selection, HD, but Chet rehearsed that song many times. Jerry never played any song the same way twice, and made up his transitions on the fly. We Dead fans lived for blended songs like Scarlet Begonias/Fire On the Mountain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luAqu8VX5wo
See y’all in 26 minutes.
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
9:03 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La-QiWzwgOM
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 15th, 2013
9:07 pm
Like the numnut from Oasis said, and I paraphrase, “It’s like having a band with a lead singer, a lead guitarist, a lead drummer, AND a lead bassist all in one band – it’s frikkin insane”
that’s The Who. But you gotta watch the documentary “Amazing Journey ” to actually see it. They show each player at his height, mute all other instruments, and show how that person is so amazing.
watch it!
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
9:08 pm
I forgot this guy. He’s friggin amazing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ruEkWMtdM8
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
9:19 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ecl93TsmaE
yuzeyurbrane
February 15th, 2013
9:25 pm
Greed and power, pure and simple. For Blank, it is greed. For Reed, it is a massive public works project that he hopes will get him reelected. Blank is bluffing; he is not going to burbs where he would get no govt. subsidies and where the hotel, restaurant, public transport infrastructure is insufficient to support his enterprise on its own. The Dome would continue to get the bulk of the busn. from conventions and others who might need an arena of that size. As for Reed, why doesn’t he just build a Pyramid with city funds? It would be a great tourist attraction and employ lots of voters. And maybe the state would pitch in? After all, it would benefit the state economy, too, and perhaps it could be under control of GWCC, as an adjunct facility to the Dome and use the motel/hotel tax?
moonbat betty
February 15th, 2013
9:26 pm
dang, I’m late.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gX1EP6mG-E
JDW
February 15th, 2013
9:29 pm
@cheesy…”They sent a man to the moon basically usually less than a modern PC built 10 years ago.”
You are on the right track but it was way less than an iPhone. A modern pc outclasses the cray super computer of the day.
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
9:29 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBRluhR6v8U
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
9:33 pm
Alright, HD, going eclectic once again on us @ 9:08.
Big Wingfield welcome to moonbat betty. I’ve got JamVet on the way over as well. My plan is to get the few cool people on the Bookman Blog to start coming here on FNM. Quality over quantity any day.
JDW
February 15th, 2013
9:35 pm
@Bruno…”I was a season ticket holder for the Falcons in the late 80s/early 90s. After the first season in the dome, my buddy and I canceled. ”
My last season ticket year was the last year in Fulton County Stadium…I have never seen a game in the Dome and don’t intend to…other than an SEC Championship Game…maybe.
JamVet
February 15th, 2013
9:36 pm
The Georgia Dome opened in 1992.
I was at the very first game against the Jets. Atlanta 20, NY 17.
But twenty years on and it needs replacement???
The people involved back then need water boarding.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCXQycyN_Vs
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
9:37 pm
When this guy would play Atlanta, the musicians from Macon, including Gregg Allman, would come up to watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deeBQZ8Aklc
moonbat betty
February 15th, 2013
9:37 pm
Thank you, Bruno.
I like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaEmQJG2HHU
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
9:40 pm
My last season ticket year was the last year in Fulton County Stadium
Were you that Latino looking fellow who used to jump up and dance in front of us around the 20 yard line every game, way down at field level?? Invariably some big guy would go down there and make him sit down.
Dusty
February 15th, 2013
9:41 pm
Awwww Kyle made us play with the Pre-K crowd for days. Then we get the Sleaze on stadium Stalagtites joined by the Yahoo Yodelers Gittar Group and the Climate changer canoodling Club.
And.. maybe snow tomorrow! Hibernation is beginning to sound interesting. .I’m going to take my valentines and go eat chocolates. (Call me only for catastrophes..)
JamVet
February 15th, 2013
9:42 pm
I went to the gargantuan Amoeba Records in Hollywood once and left with an armful of records.
Including lots of Rundgren/Utopia, some Roy Buchanan (HD!) and this guy..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKaiHamPT54
josef
February 15th, 2013
9:44 pm
DUSTY!!!
Hey, Girl, I was just about to check out, sad I had not been able to say hello, and, answer to a prayer, here you are! Folks were missing you the other night at Big Daddy’s verandah in case your ears were burning.
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
9:45 pm
I knew a guy (who’s a pretty good musican; made a living at it a while) who went to a Tony Rice seminar once. When he got back, I asked him what he learned. He said, “He was so damn far over my head there was no use in me even being there”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xswwXOPhoTU
JamVet
February 15th, 2013
9:45 pm
In the “back” of the place they had a room half the size of a Kroger with nothing but blues and jazz!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKaiHamPT54
moonbat betty
February 15th, 2013
9:46 pm
Hi Dusty!
put an extra layer on!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj2700em-JQ
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
9:48 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0T3to3DHLIE
JDW
February 15th, 2013
9:48 pm
@bruno…”Were you that Latino looking fellow who used to jump up and dance in front of us around the 20 yard line every game, way down at field level?? Invariably some big guy would go down there and make him sit down.”
JDW
February 15th, 2013
9:50 pm
“maybe snow tomorrow”
I am not buying the snow bit…it is still over 50 out there
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
9:54 pm
I forgot this guy, too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39RBm4tH9cA
josef
February 15th, 2013
9:54 pm
moonbat
Tornado…excellent and I really liked that video…
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
9:56 pm
I was at the very first game against the Jets. Atlanta 20, NY 17.
I first became aware of the Falcons in 1978, when they put the Eagles out in the wildcard playoff round, then blew a big lead in the second half against Dallas in the divisional playoffs. The 1980 team was exciting to watch, with several last minute wins, including a couple of hail marys. They again lost to Dallas after leading the game in the divisional playoffs, in a collapse of epic proportions.. Dallas then went on to lose to my Eagles, who had the best team in football in 1980 with Ron Jaworski, Harold Carmichael and Wilbur Montgomery on offense, and Bill Bergey leading up the defense. Unfortunately, Dick Vermeil over-trained them for the Super Bowl, and they were beaten by the Raiders. Probably the most exciting football year I can remember.
bluecoat
February 15th, 2013
9:58 pm
I see Aesop been drinking the poland spring water,and working Rubios cube.Next he will claim inventing the internet.
JamVet
February 15th, 2013
9:58 pm
BIG Keaggy fan. The greatest Christian guitarist I’ve ever heard. After this guy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D38Vk4s3wBA
Dusty
February 15th, 2013
9:59 pm
Josef,
Don ‘t you dare leave this place without saying “Hello beautiful” or something more truthful! I always miss ya.. Honest!
Ahhh , big Daddy’s Veranda! What’d y’all say? Was the Manichewitz good! Ummmm I still llove that stuff .
Now come more often, luv… and bring moonbat betty with ya. We like you good people..
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
9:59 pm
Jam @ 9:36–Marshall Tucker, and that song in particular, are one of the few that can’t be overplayed. They sound just as great every time I listen to them.
betty–Hadn’t heard that Tornado before.
josef
February 15th, 2013
10:00 pm
JDW
Don’t bet on it. Back home, I went to work one morning, shirt sleeves and 70 degrees, Came home that afternoon and it was already in the low 20s, by evening there was nearly a foot of the white stuff on the ground.
moonbat betty
February 15th, 2013
10:02 pm
Thanks, jo. Your picks always make me smile
Bruno, send this to win back your broken hearted:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEGXU773tTM
JamVet
February 15th, 2013
10:02 pm
…blew a big lead in the second half against Dallas in the divisional playoffs.
Hell. they took out a quarterback named Staubach and some rookie named White drove them for two second half touchdowns and they beat Atlanta in a heart breaker.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1Vf-dCA2Bk
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
10:03 pm
Everybody has heard of this guy’s Daddy. Some other top rate pickers on the stage, too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvfjIY-THZE
josef
February 15th, 2013
10:05 pm
DUSTY
Hello, ma jolie…what were we saying? Oh, just telling one of our not so nice conservatives who was blasting the liberal arts that he ought to take a lesson or two from you in how to cut somebody to shreds using quotes from the great works of literature in FRENCH even!
And moonbat? Well,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdSViaW6lUA
sorry, m’bat, I’m back in THAT decade…
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
10:06 pm
Bout time for The Shanty Song from Jonathan Edwards:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1TpeMt8aF4
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
10:08 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXQPb40gFNM
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
10:10 pm
Nothing goes along with “The Shanty Song” like “Lost In The Ozone Again” by Commander Cody and His Lost Planet Airmen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heK8QjhWGag
Kyle’s blog will never be the same.
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
10:11 pm
Out of curiosity, josef, could my pics stir the heart of an old queen at all??
moonbat betty
February 15th, 2013
10:11 pm
They all good , jo!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-q7Mih69KE
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
10:13 pm
Scotty Moore gets overlooked. He was in on the ground floor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXdkVesppd8
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
10:15 pm
In reading up on the Falcons, they had a total of 12 wins in the 1960s, and didn’t have a winning season until 1971. When I moved here, I couldn’t understand why nobody ever trusted the Falcons. 32 years later, I can say that I understand why.
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
10:16 pm
More Scotty and Knopfler is no slouch, either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw6xdHB6KXU
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
10:17 pm
betty–Cracking up at the Joe Nichols song.
josef
February 15th, 2013
10:17 pm
speaking of Jonathan Edwards….finally found his version of this one…the best I’ve ever heard of one of my all time favorite songs….
http://www.myspace.com/jonathanedwards-45784639/music/songs/morning-train-27961557
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
10:19 pm
they had a total of 12 wins in the 1960s
Yeah but they only played 4 years in the 60’s, so it’s not as bad as it looks.
Dusty
February 15th, 2013
10:24 pm
Josef
I love your lines but my French est tres terrible’ or something like that .but don’t tell.
Thought about you the other day when I read about Hattisburg. Wondered if your folks were near there. I hope not.
Take care . Now back to my chocolates. I read that chocolate was good for your health. Yeah! Right!
JamVet
February 15th, 2013
10:24 pm
Benmont Tech on keyboards…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSEsmc_H5OU
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
10:26 pm
Yeah but they only played 4 years in the 60’s, so it’s not as bad as it looks.
I know, HD, but it sounds so much worse if you just say “the 60s”.
My friend’s brother, who I went to the games with, used to bet $1000 per week against the Falcons. Most years, he came out ahead.
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
10:27 pm
Always thought this guy was better at music than he got credit for. I really liked this song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b04Po468OI8
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
10:28 pm
Bruno @ 10:26
He shoulda bet more. He’d been retired a couple decades ago.
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
10:30 pm
How bout some rockabilly from wild rooster??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBJD27hp-jA
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
10:33 pm
Bruno, send this to win back your broken hearted:
betty–At this point, I think it’s more like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmnUayaQyBk
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
10:37 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybk01Ib2Svo
josef
February 15th, 2013
10:38 pm
BRUNO
Maybe. But not this one…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0La15_Ziwo
moonbat betty
February 15th, 2013
10:40 pm
Clapton is the God!
I enjoyed comparing these 2 versions of the same song:
Fog hat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCkZWyohP7M
Etta :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Pu_AdU_NQg
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
10:41 pm
This one never gets old.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC4cACp-E2w
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
10:44 pm
@ moonbat betty:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcY5SQECqks
josef
February 15th, 2013
10:44 pm
enjoyed to visit, y’all…g’night and G-d bless…
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
10:47 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMfRG1FnsRA
JamVet
February 15th, 2013
10:47 pm
Clapton is the God!
There can be no doubt, For god’s sake he played the Hammer of God.
By way of timeliness…
The Hammer of God is a science fiction novel by Arthur C. Clarke originally published in 1993. It deals with an asteroid named Kali headed toward Earth. Captain Robert Singh of the spacecraft Goliath is sent to deflect it. Kali is discovered by Dr. Angus Miller, an amateur astronomer on the planet Mars.
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
10:54 pm
I wonder if this is how waitresses see diners.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmzMRWsY8Zo
moonbat betty
February 15th, 2013
10:56 pm
Deee Liiiight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwjoS-2zm9E
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
10:57 pm
Love this Leon Russell song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np5SnrExMDM
JamVet
February 15th, 2013
11:04 pm
For my USCG brother in arms Mick!
The fumblerooskie!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIRgXCB_sQE
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
11:07 pm
My favorite version of this song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWAEs8XHRmE
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
11:07 pm
Can’t tell you why, but I got into a Cameo mood for a hot second:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZjAantupsA
I’ll try to keep it under better control next time.
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
11:15 pm
Maybe this will put back on the path to respectability. From Dire Straits:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1gG3G07wjI
moonbat betty
February 15th, 2013
11:15 pm
This was difficult to find for some reason.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUybqRzX2sk
Tom(Independent Viet Vet-USAF)
February 15th, 2013
11:21 pm
Let the wealthy pay for it, as Obama would say”pay their fair share”? Really, they should move north of Atlanta, that’s where the vast majority of their paying customers live! Gwinnett Falcons, now I like the sound of it!
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
11:29 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp7_u0kcQRo
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
11:33 pm
Haven’t put this Robbie Robertson up in a while:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAHG4eb0Kcc
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
11:46 pm
Thanks for coming out, everyone.
moonbat betty
February 15th, 2013
11:54 pm
Great mix.
Enjoyed everyone’s contributions.
Well done.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egGdseGTtII
indigo
February 16th, 2013
8:58 am
Aesop – 7:15 pm
H. Sterling Burnett is lead analyst for The National Center For Policy Analysis, an organization funded by wealthy conservative business families including the Koch brothers.
It is in the financial interest of these families to discredit global warming any way they can.
As long as your information comes from these slanted sources, it is essentially worthless.
Chuck Clausen
February 16th, 2013
9:25 am
The Falcon Headquarters are in Flowery Branch, my guess Duluth would attract more season ticket holders. We were season ticket holders for 12 years, the only reason we dropped them was it took so long to get out of downtown Atlanta after the game. I coach in the NFL for 18 seasons, it looked to me like there was a strong trend for NFL teams to move to the suburbs. My guess is land costs are cheaper and more parking options were available.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 16th, 2013
9:50 am
It is in the financial interest of these families to discredit global warming any way they can.
As long as your information comes from these slanted sources, it is essentially worthless.
indie – Are you really going to put it out there that our government is working in OUR best interests when funds whole bureaucracies and organizations all slanted towards proving this myth?
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 16th, 2013
10:11 am
It is in the financial interest of Algore and George Soros, et al, to promote global warming any way they can.
Corrected you statement indigo.
A Realist
February 16th, 2013
10:15 am
I often disagree with you Kyle, but this time (among some others) you have nailed the issue, and are bringing out why people are perplexed about this issue.
For that matter, why build a retractable roof when a totally enclosed stadium would be far less expensive to build and maintain? We don’t need a new toy with all the bells and whistles that will ultimately need expensive repairs. But then again, if you don’t build a retractable roof, then why destroy something that still perfectly functional? Maybe this is all about corporate welfare?
A concerned public wants to know.
indigo
February 16th, 2013
10:54 am
Aesop
Big Business stands to lose billions and billions of dollars if global warming is proved to be caused by man-made CO2 emmissions from gas, oil and coal. It’s no surprise they will fight to disprove it any way they can. Big Tobbaco did the same thing.
Please explain how billions and billions of dollars can be illegally made by falsifying global warming data.
indigo
February 16th, 2013
10:58 am
Aesop – “proving this myth”
Your fundamentalist pastor and teachers are not in the same league as the worlds top climate scientists.
I think, deep down, you know this but constant fundamentalist brainwasing makes it difficult to accept.
http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/politics/2374/_creationism_and_global_warming_denial__anti_science_s_kissing_cousins/
yuzeyurbrane
February 16th, 2013
11:11 am
Our statehouse politicians still don’t get it. They act as if the $200 million in existing bond authority is the starting point for seeking more government financing. The raising of the GWCC bond limit from $200 million to $300 million just reflects a tactical error Blank and Deal made when they first pushed the $200 million bond increase through in the middle of the night and under radar. Darn, they miscalculated and had to come back to the legislature at a time voters are watching. But the original $200 million of public support was just as wrong as the proposed upward change. Not a penny of bonds should go to this greedy project and the legislature should put on its collective big boy pants and man up to having made a mistake with the sub rosa $200 million and repeal it. That way when the the current Dome bonds are soon paid off, the tax can be eliminated or directed to other more urgent issues. As far as the City of Atlanta goes, it is broke and has a high list of items of much higher priority for scarce public funds. Don’t you think it is odd that Reed is so vague and evasive about how much extra would be stuck on Atlanta taxpayers? He wants a high profile public works project with lots of short term jobs for his voters so he can sweep to reelection. Mayor, why not just build a Pyramid and achieve the same effect?
wallbanger
February 16th, 2013
11:24 am
Most people can’t even afford to go to these games. They are limited to corporate money, and drug dealers. I was down at the parking lot before a game and all I saw were blacks having a great old time. Are you going to tell me that most of the money and taxes made and paid in this city are from blacks? I hardly think so. So I think if you took the ticket sales to drug dealers out of the equation there wouldn’t be any crowd at a Falcons game.
midnight garden
February 16th, 2013
11:44 am
I remember when the Ga Dome had its first game in 92. Its unbelievable we need a new one so soon. Definitely has to be theres money in it for somebody so its going to happen. I just hope the tax payers don’t get stuck with the bill. And the arguement that the Ga Dome will need repairs, etc, well the new stadium will also have upkeep charges too. Its not like once its here theres no more to be spent on it.
10 years from now, I could see it. Just not so soon.
When I see our stadium on tv, it still looks really nice.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 16th, 2013
11:45 am
Please explain how billions and billions of dollars can be illegally made by falsifying global warming data.
By taxing energy use?
Ray
February 16th, 2013
11:51 am
The obvious answer to “why now” is: someone is demanding it, presumably, Arthur Blank.
Kyle, you would have advised different timing. The Falcons are hot, and I can’t help think the pride in have a winning team might make it easier to sell, if we had not just come through the Great Depression. Who knows, maybe having a grand, brand new stadium might be the trick to raise our spirits (the Phoenix, from the ashes). Seeing people at work, huge cranes, heck I just convince myself it is GREAT idea.
Whirled Peas
February 16th, 2013
11:57 am
If it is so easy to tax snowbirds on their way down south, why do we have to pay income tax, property tax and sales tax?
Hillbilly D
February 16th, 2013
12:01 pm
Back to the original topic, Roads will add to stadium price; unclear who’ll pay. Unclear who will pay? A blind man can see the answer to that one; the same people who always pay, i.e. the Great Unwashed. And Atlanta won’t have the money for that, especially after ponying up $300 million, so that’s where Arthur sticks his hand in the state pockets.
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/roads-will-add-to-stadium-price-unclear-wholl-pay/nWQtp/
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
12:24 pm
indigo: Big Business stands to lose billions and billions of dollars if global warming is proved to be caused by man-made CO2 emmissions from gas, oil and coal. It’s no surprise they will fight to disprove it any way they can. Big Tobbaco did the same thing.
Aesop–indigo is one of those Libs who believes in AGW because she wants to, not because it is a valid scientific theory. It confirms her pre-determined world view that corporations (and maybe people in general) are inherently evil, that they exist only to damage the planet and to screw everybody else over.
And, as is typical, the most vocal supporters of AGW are often the ones who understand the science (or lack thereof in this case) the least. You can present reasonable doubts with all of the factual backup you want to folks like her, and she’s not budging an inch. A few ad hominem arguments and blind appeals to authority later, and everything is right in their world again.
The bottom line is that self-righteousness she thrives on, like self-pity, is a mighty addictive drug, and just as toxic in the long-run.
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
12:29 pm
From yahoo: “Obama Bypasses Congress With Public Economic Pitch”
http://news.yahoo.com/obama-bypasses-congress-public-economic-pitch-140104549.html
From the article: “…Obama is trying to change an economic debate that has been focused on deficits and on managing the national debt to one about middle-class opportunities and economic growth. Just into his second term, Obama and his aides want to move away from the type of budget confrontations that have defined the past two years and take advantage of his re-election to pressure Republicans.”
So, tell us again Libs how willing the President is to reach across the aisle, and how focused he is on what matters most to the country right now.
Dusty
February 16th, 2013
12:30 pm
I guess this is a question of how much money will a new stadium cost as compared to how much money will it bring to Atlanta. Of course!
But, when you think about what percentage of people go to Falcon’s games as compared to the total population of Atlanta or even Georgia, it is very very small.
I don’t see how the public will ever be repaid for any money (taxes) invested in a stadium. Has the old one been paid for ? Who got the money? How can you get a cost estimate on a new stadium when nobody knows who is going to pay for the new roads that will be needed.or what changes in costs will be by the time a new stadiium might be built. Upkeep will start on a new one as soon as it is built. That aint free!!
There are too many guesses here for taxpayers. Obviously, people like me who never attend a Falcons game are not interested in payng for such a facility, especially when we have a good one already.
If business men want a new stadium, let them pay for it and take their chances. The Falcons are business people by the very nature of being professional football players. I don’t care to have my taxes invested in a possible-profitable scheme manufactured by the business world. Keep the government (taxes) OUT of this proposed deal that is definitely not a sure money maker.
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
12:33 pm
In other yahoo news: “Obama treats himself to boys’ weekend in Florida”.
http://news.yahoo.com/obama-treats-himself-boys-weekend-florida-095913407–politics.html
Yep, he’s just like those Occupy folks he loves so much, just at a, shall we say, slightly higher level of comfort.
Hillbilly D
February 16th, 2013
12:38 pm
The Falcons are business people by the very nature of being professional football players.
This is actually something the players have nothing to do with, this is all management. Roger Goodell made $29 million for 2011, which is okay, but don’t be asking for handouts, if the Commish can pull down that kind of money. And by the way, his salary is public record because the NFL (the league not the teams) has non-profit status.
http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2013-02-15/roger-goodell-salary-in-2011-29-million-nfl-commissioner-david-stern-bud-selig
I personally believe that the retired players are going to eventually win their lawsuit, probably after many years and many $$$ spent. I don’t think the future of the NFL is as rosy as most think.
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
12:40 pm
If business men want a new stadium, let them pay for it and take their chances. The Falcons are business people by the very nature of being professional football players. I don’t care to have my taxes invested in a possible-profitable scheme manufactured by the business world. Keep the government (taxes) OUT of this proposed deal that is definitely not a sure money maker.
Even if it were a sure money-maker, Dusty, I’m with you that the government shouldn’t be directly in business that way. A possible argument could be made that there is some public usage of a stadium, and most certainly public “good” is created by the ripple effect on the local economy, so that it’s constitutional, but I think a wall needs to be in place between business and government, in the same way that a wall needs to be in place between religion and government.
indigo
February 16th, 2013
12:43 pm
Bruno
The overwhelming majority of climate scientists believe global warming is real and is caused by man-made emissions.
Do you actually think the best they can do is present “a few ad hominem arguments”? Or that they are the ones who “understand the science the least”?
If so, I’m guessing your source of science information and knowledge comes from fundamentalist teachers and your fundamentalist pastor.
getalife
February 16th, 2013
12:43 pm
goodell should be fired for his treatment of the Saints and there is one retired coach perfect for the job.
His name is Tony Dungy.
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
12:48 pm
HD–I came across this gem last night, a rendition of the old Temptation’s hit, “Standing On Shaky Ground”, done by Phoebe Snow. I think she rocks it, and the guitar work is really spacy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3naBhcnBGE
Dusty
February 16th, 2013
12:51 pm
Hillbilly
The NFL (league) is a non profit organization? That is so rediculous it isn’t even funny. I think I will declare myself a non-profit person because I blog for free ( and the rest that pays isn’t THAT much!)
I wonder when sports because the drug taking profit making professional organziations that they seem to be? Oh well, money is the root of all evil as has been said many times.
Dusty
February 16th, 2013
12:53 pm
Awww…when sports BECAME ..not because. Sorry…
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
12:54 pm
As I said above, folks, ” A few ad hominem arguments and blind appeals to authority later, and everything is right in their world again.” indigo is so dumb, however, it looks like I have to spell it out for her:
ad hominem argument: If so, I’m guessing your source of science information and knowledge comes from fundamentalist teachers and your fundamentalist pastor.
blind appeal to authority: The overwhelming majority of climate scientists believe global warming is real and is caused by man-made emissions.
So, is everything good in your world, indigo?? Too bad you didn’t look at any of the NASA and EPA websites I linked the other day which cast doubt on your supposedly unsinkable theory.
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
12:56 pm
Dusty, even though it’s a song about infidelity, you might appreciate this beautiful performance of “Poetry Man” by the late Phoebe Snow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9GdeGfkXJM
getalife
February 16th, 2013
1:00 pm
Paul Krugman: ‘We’re Halfway To A Lost Decade’ HP
Yes, the w disaster’s consequence is a lost decade of growth.
Never, ever vote gop to lose another decade .
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
1:05 pm
Wow, I made a 64 word sentence in my 12:40 post. That’s more than we get out of HD for a whole day most of the time.
A close friend of mine from Korea told me that they have and expression along the lines of “Men should have heavy lips”.
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
1:07 pm
Yes, the w disaster’s consequence is a lost decade of growth.
Never, ever vote gop to lose another decade .
I can picture getalife 20 years from now in some nursing home, still railing against W.
MarkV
February 16th, 2013
1:07 pm
I have seen many comments on this blog regarding global warming saying, in various forms, “I think (or, “I believe”) that global warming is a natural phenomenon and not caused to a significant extent by the activities of people.” (This is at least a step up from the most backward deniers, who refuse to accept even the phenomenon itself.)
To the above people I would say: You have the right to say that, and to think or believe whatever you want. But if you mean it literally, i.e., that it is a product of your thinking on the subject even though you are not a climatologist, then the value and importance of what you have said is zero, zilch, nada, rien. What evidence can you present, which has not been considered by the scientists, for your “thinking”? How and where did you get that “evidence?”
When someone accuses me “all you can do is make blind appeals to authority since you don’t have the education or intelligence to discuss the pertinent issues on your own,” I can see immediately that I am dealing with someone of impaired or corrupted intellectual ability. Especially when the only contra-argument that person uses is the appeal to “authority,” in this case the muddled opinions of someone who is outside the scientific discipline in question.
A political blog is not a forum for debating complex scientific issues. It is ridiculous when some people start throwing in arguments like “the earth was hotter millions years ago when there were no people here,” or “look, there is extremely cold in Siberia now,” “the scientists are faking the data,” etc., or long-disproven arguments they had read somewhere and they expect to be answered again here. The global warming/climate change debate reminds eerily of the smoking/cancer debate years ago. Just like now, there were powerful economic interests at stake – tobacco companies then, fossil fuels companies now. Just like then, even when a consensus of medical researchers emerged, there were some “deniers.” There were people who refused to believe the link between smoking and cancer because “my granddaddy smoke two packs of cigarettes a day and lived to 96.” People who pooh-poohed the consensus of the specialists in the field and accused those who took that consensus as the best evidence we had of “blind appeals to authority.”
Hillbilly D
February 16th, 2013
1:09 pm
Turns out, the multi-billion dollar money-making machine that is the NFL is, in the eyes of the government, a nonprofit organization. Thanks to an exemption written into the tax code, the league is exempt from federal corporate taxes.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/21715610/we-know-roger-goodells-salary-because-nfl-is-taxexempt-nonprofit
And sports became a business, as soon as they started selling tickets. TV has just magnified things. Babe Ruth made more money than the President of the United States (at the time) but as he said, when asked about it, “……I had a better year than he did”.
money is the root of all evil
The love of is the root of all evil. Wish I had a nickel for every time I heard Grandma explain the difference.
there is one retired coach perfect for the job.
His name is Tony Dungy.
Agree he’d be a good man for the job but don’t think it will ever happen. He’s too honest and the owners want a toady, not a leader, and they control who the commissioner is.
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
1:09 pm
Time for a little Minnie Riperton:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa2vbT42R3w
Hillbilly D
February 16th, 2013
1:10 pm
Opps, only “the love of” is supposed to be bold and of course it was supposed to say money after that. My brain just moves too dang fast sometimes. Leads to brain farts.
And Bruno
Great session work on the Phoebe Snow. Wonder who the players were?
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 16th, 2013
1:17 pm
This suckestration bruhaha is really starting to crack me up. This whole scheme has become a steel trap that our little sociapath, obozo, has sprung on hisself. What committee of tinpots two bits dreamt this up? Imagine the mindless thought process that was expended to produce such an affront. Let’s come up some creepy word to call this so that we frighten the weak minded who perpetually vote for us. All across the metropolitan areas of the United States, the pea brains pop and whirl with menacing thoughts, will this suckestration thing come after me next? It’s a no brainer, boss.
But no, word leaked that the suckestration would turn the dogs loose on the military and the average obozo voter immediately thought “mo money fo me.” And the Cons are like “we’re going to lose the Department of Second Hand Condom Redistribution? You promise?”
So now obozo’s beedy little eyes dart back and forth, he licks his foamy lips with his forked tongue as panic begins to set in. This one wasn’t a big gimmick or shell game! These are real, honest to goodness cuts to federal spending! Hide the lib women and children! Send bookman a big whiny sob story about the .005% cut to the Department of Peace he can post to his blog.
The Repugs didn’t bite on it at all, haha. Don’t worry, you ain’t the only one who’s surprised.
Dusty
February 16th, 2013
1:18 pm
Bruno
I don’t worry about religion because our Constitution has already taken care of that for citizens.. As a Christian, I also feel “free”.in the freedom that Christ gave us.
Of course, free speech allows those who wish to proclaim their faith a chance to speak out. That is fair enough.
Since religion is essentailly personal faith, then it should be personal in our lives. When that personal faith reaches out as it does in our church, then I certainly do support agencies such as Lutheran World Relief, Heifer International,etc. and local efforts such as Networks,etc., which coordinates efforts for the needy in our neighborhood.
Maybe it gets complicated by extremists of any kind or those who reject religion as superfluous. So be it. Fortunately we still live in a country that allows for freedoms along with some restrictions but all aimed at givinig each person the right to direct their own lives. That I treasure.
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
1:19 pm
But if you mean it literally, i.e., that it is a product of your thinking on the subject even though you are not a climatologist, then the value and importance of what you have said is zero, zilch, nada, rien.
Good job, Mark, you managed to roll your ad hominem attack and blind appeal to authority into one sentence vs. two for indigo. High marks for efficiency!!
A political blog is not a forum for debating complex scientific issues
Ok, so then we’re forced to accept the all of the conclusions which naturally result from starting with YOUR chosen set of assumptions. Brilliant debating tactic, MarkV–Not.
The global warming/climate change debate reminds eerily of the smoking/cancer debate years ago. Just like now, there were powerful economic interests at stake
When you can explain to me what my own economic interests might be in questioning the unproven conclusions of a science which is still in its infancy, I might buy your last attempt to not actually debate the veracity of AGW. Til then, I’m not buying a word you have to say. I don’t even want them for free.
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
1:22 pm
And sports became a business, as soon as they started selling tickets. TV has just magnified things. Babe Ruth made more money than the President of the United States (at the time) but as he said, when asked about it, “……I had a better year than he did”.
HD (and Dusty)–Don’t take this in any wrong way, but many people like myself feel the same way about church. Not every church is rich like Creflo Dollar’s megachurch, but I can’t get behind the tax-free status. Too much room for abuse.
MarkV
February 16th, 2013
1:23 pm
“I’m not buying a word you have to say.”
Who cares about what you are buying?
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 16th, 2013
1:28 pm
I, for one, believe that smoking is dangerous and that liberals do not have a lick of sense about them.
Hillbilly D
February 16th, 2013
1:32 pm
I can’t get behind the tax-free status.
No arguing that it has room to be manipulated but churches (synogogues, mosques, etc) have tax free status for a reason, it’s to protect them from interference. The government, from the 1st amendment, can’t establish a church but it also can’t prevent one. If they had the power to tax, it would be quite simple to do away with whatever religious group they chose, just tax it out of business. That’s why they have the non-profit status. I’m for separating church from the government, as I’ve said on here before, more to keep the government from corrupting the church, than the other way around. I think anytime a church gets into the political realm (no matter the side), the church suffers.
Of course, as a hard shell Baptist, I don’t even cotton to the Baptist associations. I still believe the old way, that each church should be autonomous and controlled by the congregation. My views are somewhat outside the mainstream Baptist thinking, at least in its present form.
As for what they now call “the Prosperity Gospel”, I think that’s a false theology but it’s nothing new. It showed up in the 2nd half of the 19th century as “the Gospel of Money”. People have a right to believe that if they want but it’s not for me. And the people who preach false gospels may not have to answer for it in this world but they will in the next, in my opinion.
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
1:36 pm
Who cares about what you are buying?
You cared enough to type out an approximately 400 word post a few minutes ago which was essentially addressed to me.
Once again, MarkV, climatology is a new science, and far, far from being an exact science by any stretch of the imagination. Intelligent people both within and without the field of science understand this. You are most certainly entitled to your own opinion on the topic, but it might serve you better to show some respect for the fact that other people can look at the same data and reach a different conclusion about the current level of believability of AGW.
getalife
February 16th, 2013
1:37 pm
The sequester cuts 85 billion to lose thousands of more jobs.
The easing costs 85 billion a month so it is ignorant.
getalife
February 16th, 2013
1:42 pm
Knowing the fact that cons are seldomly right about anything, I have to go with climate change is real.
The new pattern on big storms is hitting the NE instead of the South.
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
1:46 pm
If they had the power to tax, it would be quite simple to do away with whatever religious group they chose, just tax it out of business.
I would think that property taxes could be levied fairly, and not in a punitive way, but I understand the reasoning behind what you’re saying. It kind of stinks, though, that many ministers use their status to reap job benefits tax-free when you and I can’t.
Of course, as a hard shell Baptist, I don’t even cotton to the Baptist associations. I still believe the old way, that each church should be autonomous and controlled by the congregation.
There used to be a Primitive Baptist Church near my old office in Atlanta, and they seemed to adhere to a pretty basic, stripped down philosophy which I respected. At my old engineering college, they always taught that the best design is the simplest.
My views are somewhat outside the mainstream Baptist thinking, at least in its present form
Just my view from the outside, but it seems like many churches are telling people what they want to hear these days, rather than what they need to hear. Keeps the parking lot fuller.
MarkV
February 16th, 2013
1:48 pm
Bruno @ 1:36 pm
“You cared enough to type out an approximately 400 word post a few minutes ago which was essentially addressed to me.”
Your illusion of self-importance is underwhelming.
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
1:48 pm
Some more Minnie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVniMFJYY1o
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
1:50 pm
MarkV @ 1:48–I accept your surrender on the topic of AGW. Let me know when you want to discuss Evolution, and why it’s not even a truly scientific theory.
Hillbilly D
February 16th, 2013
1:56 pm
It kind of stinks, though, that many ministers use their status to reap job benefits tax-free
It does but it’s the lesser of two evils, so to speak, in my opinion. I even go far enough to believe, that if a pastor is full-time (doesn’t have another job to support himself, which many do, in my world), his salary should be no more than what the average member of his congregation makes. I can name names, in my community, where they probably make 3 times what the average member does (not including perks). Of course, weak deacons are the cause of that.
many churches are telling people what they want to hear these days, rather than what they need to hear.
I agree with that, probably more than you know. I go with what the old folks used to say, “if the preacher ain’t stepping on toes, he’s not doing his job”.
I have one little quick test that I think works really well. If a pastor every invites me to church, if he says “you should visit our church sometime”, I consider it. If he says, “you should visit my church sometime”, I want no part of it. It’s not “his” church or shouldn’t be.
MarkV
February 16th, 2013
1:59 pm
Bruno @1:50 pm
“MarkV @ 1:48–I accept your surrender on the topic of AGW. “
Bruno: a true mate of Tiberius and others in using this worn-out, boring rubbish.
“Let me know when you want to discuss Evolution, and why it’s not even a truly scientific theory.”
I do not care to discuss Evolution with you. Why should I? I have not discussed it with anybody else, and you would be the last person I would discuss it with if I wanted.
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
2:04 pm
It’s not “his” church or shouldn’t be.
For me, Brother HD, it’s pretty much all about Matthew 22:36-40: 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”
If you can apply those two principles to every situation, then dong the right thing isn’t too hard.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 16th, 2013
2:06 pm
The S-E-C ac-cuses “unknown traders” of having advance word of the deal and buying options a day ahead of the news to make “risky bets” that Heinz’s stock price would rise. Both the size and the timing of the trades raised su-sp-icio-ns at the S-E-C.
According to the government, the traders made more than $1.7 million when Heinz’s stock soared almost 20 percent after the merger was announced publicly.
Guess who used to own Heinz’s. Dat’s right, bandaid kerry’s old lady did. And which side of this deal would benefit from inside trading information, the buyer or the seller? Correct, the seller would. And, is insider trading legal? Of course not. Do liberals ever go after corruption and malfeasance within their own political party? Bwahahahahaahahahaha, yeah, I know.
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
2:07 pm
Of course, I always allow plenty of exceptions to Matt 22:39 when it comes to people like MarkV. Dumb + A Bad Attitude isn’t a winning combination, Mark.
getalife
February 16th, 2013
2:07 pm
The Kerrys got paid.
getalife
February 16th, 2013
2:14 pm
You lose every argument and the last two Presidential cycles but show no humility to remain arrogant and dead wrong.
In a time of self reflection to “fix” your failed party was too ugly for you to accept.
You will cave on immigration for the Latino vote and declare your party “fixed”.
You are divided and conquered but that fact has not sunk in yet.
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
2:14 pm
accuses
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
2:17 pm
All clear on “accuses”, Aesop. “su-S-P-I-C-ions has a problem in the middle of it.
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
2:19 pm
You are divided and conquered but that fact has not sunk in yet.
So how about it, getalife, are you going to make it another 20 years?? You gonna be busting Bush’s chops in the nursing home??
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
2:20 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsAaLNMtb1A
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 16th, 2013
2:24 pm
Bruno – I isolate the offending paragraph and the hyphenate all likely subjects.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 16th, 2013
2:26 pm
er, suspects
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 16th, 2013
2:29 pm
gitmo – Thank you for your kind concern. We will be just fine, so you really should unclutch that pillow. If I were you, I would be more worried with the word “lame duck.”
quack, quack.
indigo
February 16th, 2013
2:31 pm
Bruno – 2:04
Can you provide testable evidence to support your religious beliefs?
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
2:35 pm
indigo–I don’t have any religious beliefs. I’m not a Christian.
Does that clear things up for you?? Or just make it more complicated??
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 16th, 2013
2:38 pm
Can you provide testable evidence to support your religious beliefs?
We’re here, aren’t we?
getalife
February 16th, 2013
2:42 pm
“So how about it, getalife, are you going to make it another 20 years?? You gonna be busting Bush’s chops in the nursing home??”
They told me I would be dead in 2004 and it was a very close call but I will leave it to the history books to show w was a disaster for the future generations.
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
2:45 pm
We’re here, aren’t we?
The fact that we’re here doesn’t prove the existence of a Deity, but, from a strictly Scientific point of view, it does prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that there are forces at work in the Universe that we don’t understand at all. Big Bang Theory + Evolution doesn’t even come close to explaining the miracle that life represents.
getalife
February 16th, 2013
2:46 pm
The new majority does not care about party or partisan politics.
They care about what is best for our country and all the American people.
Join us .
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
2:47 pm
but I will leave it to the history books to show w was a disaster for the future generations.
Maybe on your headstone you could have them chisel in a middle finger extended to Bush.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 16th, 2013
2:50 pm
The fact that we’re here doesn’t prove the existence of a Deity
So what else would you call It?
getalife
February 16th, 2013
2:52 pm
“a middle finger extended to Bush.
”
We did that when we elected President Obama twice.
Ralph
February 16th, 2013
2:52 pm
The Romans made it about 500 years with the Coliseum. Now we’re looking at 5% of that for the Georgia Dome which is still practically new.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 16th, 2013
2:55 pm
Really, the only plausible explanation for all of this can be found in the Bible. Unless, of course, we just happen to be the most intelligent animated pieces of meat in a random, pointless accident of nature, a mindless idea for which libs sold their souls and embraced whole heartedly.
getalife
February 16th, 2013
3:01 pm
Actually, we are very tiny humans in a infinite universe.
We have no idea what is out there in the universe and finally went to Mars.
The big bang theory was proven in a recent billion dollar experiment..
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
3:15 pm
So what else would you call It?
“forces at work in the Universe that we don’t understand at all.”
The unusual part about these forces, however, is that they seem to be purposeful at times, especially in the arena of biological adaptation. Which is why I don’t blame people for visualizing a Creator behind the scenes. “Normal” forces that we’re aware of, e.g. gravity or electrical forces, seem to work uniformly with no purpose in and of themselves. How these various “impersonal” forces somehow resulted in 7,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 individual atoms coming together to form our bodies is beyond explanation.
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
3:18 pm
The big bang theory was proven in a recent billion dollar experiment..
That right, get?? Sounds like someone just got scammed. It’s not possible to recreate the Universe in a laboratory. But, I’m guessing you knew that already.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 16th, 2013
3:19 pm
A “bipartisan” agreement means that the Democrats get what they want now and Republicans at some distant far-off date. Try it: New taxes and government programs now, alleged deficit reduction of $2.5 trillion a decade hence. Illegal immigrant amnesty now, alleged rigorous border enforcement the day after tomorrow. Washington has settled into a comfortable pattern: instant gratification for spending binges that do nothing for any of the problems they purport to be solving, assuaged by meaningless commitments to start the 12-step program next year, or next decade or next century. No other big spender among the advanced democracies lies to itself about the gulf between its appetites and its self-discipline.
We’re #1!
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 16th, 2013
3:25 pm
Which is why I don’t blame people for visualizing a Creator behind the scenes.
Yeah, we wouldn’t want to simplify this and just go with the obvious conclusions.
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
3:42 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ7Jk25ZlD4
indigo
February 16th, 2013
3:44 pm
Bruno – 1:50
Why not discuss it with Nobel Prize winners?
After all, your fundamentalist science knowledge is as good as theirs.
Right?
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2005/sep/16/nobel_winners_defend_teaching_evolution/?print
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 16th, 2013
4:06 pm
The Speaker has made it clear that he believes his one-on-one negotiations with Obama over the last two years allowed Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) and his caucus to escape responsibility for taking politically-tough votes in the last two years, helping Democrats not only keep control of the Senate, but expand their majority in 2012.
As Boehner put it on Thursday, “those days are over.”
Game, set, match.
Atlantarama
February 16th, 2013
4:11 pm
In this disposable society, 25 years does seem old. The main reason I’d like to see a new stadium is because football should be played outdoors instead of on an indoor carpet. But I think it would help the city to locate a new football stadium farther south of downtown, which would be cheaper and hopefully spur development.
indigo
February 16th, 2013
4:12 pm
Aesop – 2:38
According to mathematical physics, something really can come from nothing.
So much for “we’re here, aren’t we”.
Of course, if you insist God put us here, that raises another question.
Which God?
The God of Judasim, Christianity, Islam?
Or, the Gods of Hinduism?
Or, some unknown God?
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
4:17 pm
According to mathematical physics, something really can come from nothing.
Well, if mathematical physics says that it’s true, well, then, POOF, it happens.
indigo–You really need to quit while you’re behind.
indigo
February 16th, 2013
4:17 pm
Bruno – 2:35 “I don’t have any religious beliefs”
Re-read your 2:04.
Short-term memory loss?
indigo
February 16th, 2013
4:19 pm
Bruno – 4:17
How did you manage to become so profoundly ignorant about science?
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
4:19 pm
Here’s what theoretical Physics has to say:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Road-Reality-Complete-Universe/dp/0679776311/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1361049531&sr=8-1&keywords=roger+penrose
Read it and get back to me, ok??
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
4:21 pm
Re-read your 2:04.
Short-term memory loss?
Just because I’m not a Christian doesn’t mean that I can’t benefit from reading the Bible. Lot of good stuff in there, though not a substitute for a Science book.
How did you manage to become so profoundly ignorant about science?
hmc.edu
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 16th, 2013
4:46 pm
According to mathematical physics, something really can come from nothing.
Even mathematical physicists have to have something to begin with, the space time foam being an example, but the problem is, the space time foam is………. something. They just call it nothing to suit their purposes.
indigo
February 16th, 2013
4:47 pm
Bruno
You poo pah mathematical physics.
You think Richard Feynman, a physicist, is a great man.
You’re not religious.
Your guiding philosophy comes from The New Testament.
I’d say you’re not really sure what to believe.
BW
February 16th, 2013
5:34 pm
Kyle
It’s really very simple…the main rent paying tenant, the Atlanta Falcons, want a building which they can make more money from and the lease is up in 2017. That’s all there is to it…we can stomp our feet and pretend that once the Falcons leave the Dome that other signature events would remain or that the costs associated with upkeep aren’t real or exaggerated and that the state would pony up that type of money without the Falcons in it. The stadium age is mere coincidence and as a matter of fact there have been arenas torn up after only 20 years (see Richfield Coliseum outside of Cleveland, where the Cavs played before Quicken Loans Arena). Money talks and bs walks as the saying goes.
indigo
February 16th, 2013
6:49 pm
Aesop – 4:46
Read for yourself.
Note no mention of “space time foam”
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090415110041AAT5nDg
larry
February 16th, 2013
6:53 pm
What is wrong with a 20 year old stadium ??? NOTHING !!
This is about taxpayers paying for the whims and wants of Billionaires and Millionaires !!!
DON’T DO IT !!!
There Are Many Other Projects Taxpayer’s Money Should Be Spent On That ARE NEEDED FOR THE COMMUNITY !!!
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 16th, 2013
7:16 pm
Here’s how indie’s genius concludes his lecture -
So in short, if something can indeed come from nothing, than isn’t all your creationist BS invalid now.
It’d be nice if you could show some proof instead of bombarding me with the mindless rants of insane liberals.
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
7:16 pm
I’d say you’re not really sure what to believe.
I wouldn’t say that at all. I think it’s more like you’re not smart enough to understand what I believe. You don’t even know the difference between metaphysics and epistemology.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXt57IplIG4
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
7:27 pm
Read for yourself.
Note no mention of “space time foam”
And BTW, indigo, your link is crap. The person answering the question is attempting to extrapolate certain features of local “quantum” events into explanations of how the Universe began. In addition to using faulty logic, the “quantum” events he describes are misstated.
It might help if you actually read a few books on the topic. I’m sure that you would never get through “Road To Reality”, but you could start with “Thirty Years That Shook Physics” by George Gamow. Less than $7.00.
http://www.amazon.com/Thirty-Years-that-Shook-Physics/dp/048624895X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1361060766&sr=8-1&keywords=thirty+years+that+shook+physics
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
7:37 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ3dAco1czQ
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
7:39 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqv5OlebBOo
Buzzy
February 16th, 2013
8:13 pm
It doesn’t need to be replaced.
Does everybody remember when the MARTA/Road Improvement Referendum failed?
The politicians need a big building project to reward their friends and provide “make work-do-nothing” jobs for family members. That’s what this big money project is really about…and why should the Falcons complain?
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
8:13 pm
The bottom line, indigo, is that Energy must always be conserved. When subatomic particles “pop into existence”, to use the phrase the yahoo author used, they can only do so in an environment that has available energy. Though we normally think of a vacuum as containing “nothing”, this isn’t true at the quantum level of existence, because there is ambient energy available. Attempting to extrapolate this localized phenomenon to a larger system, such as an entire Universe, is a logical fallacy.
Further confusion arises, in my experience, when the same word “particle” is used for both micro-sized and macro-sized objects. At the subatomic level, “normal” rules of existence don’t seem to apply, insofar as “particles” exhibit behavior usually associated with waves. Because of this, any physical model we think of in our minds cannot be correct, because there is no way to reconcile the two different entities, particles and waves. The most brilliant theoretical physicists, like Richard Feynman, understand that in the end, Quantum Physics is simply a mathematical description of something that we do not, and in fact cannot, understand in any usual sense of the word.
In the words of Richard Feynman: “Now we know how the electrons and light behave. But what can I call it? If I say they behave like particles I give the wrong impression; also if I say they behave like waves. They behave in their own inimitable way, which technically could be called a quantum mechanical way. They behave in a way that is like nothing that you have ever seen before. . . . An atom does not behave like a weight hanging on a spring and oscillating. Nor does it behave like a miniature representation of the solar system with little planets going around in orbits. Nor does it appear to be somewhat like a cloud or fog of some sort surrounding the nucleus. It behaves like nothing you have ever seen before.”
JamVet
February 16th, 2013
8:15 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjPlhb4f9P8
Hillbilly D
February 16th, 2013
8:25 pm
What if not only the planets revolve around the sun but the sun is also revolving around something else at the same time? Or maybe the whole shebang is revolving?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7msDf6H27M
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
8:28 pm
What if not only the planets revolve around the sun but the sun is also revolving around something else at the same time? Or maybe the whole shebang is revolving?
HD–Your questions are the same ones that Einstein asked around 1900. The only difference between you and him is that he actually answered them.
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
8:32 pm
JamVet–You shouldn’t be so harsh on indigo like that.
Hillbilly D
February 16th, 2013
8:35 pm
Bruno
Another difference between me and ol’ Al is that I realize, there’s some things……I just don’t need to know.
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
8:37 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQj–Kjn0z8
Sitting and watching the world going by
Is it true when we die we go up to the sky?
Woah, woah
So many things that I don’t understand
Put my feet in the sand when I’m walking in the sun
Woah
Walking in the sun
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
8:40 pm
One of my favorite Santana pieces, “Moonflower” from the album of the same name.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5b3VBUW2ok
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 16th, 2013
8:44 pm
To better explain on indie’s level of comprehension, try holding two magnets together to understand why atoms are so unpredictable. It’s why the wind blows. Energy is in a constant state of repelling other energy.
Even the space between you and I is made up of complex elements, even though we cannot see them. Wave your hand across that space and you can feel them move.
No matter which intellectual level you inhabit, whether you see air as 20.95% oxygen or if it is something you find messes up your hairstyle, it sustains your life. It serves a unique, undeniable purpose in your existence, almost as though it was created specifically for that reason. As is almost everything else on this Earth.
Hillbilly D
February 16th, 2013
8:45 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9ciZkUhnVQ
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
8:47 pm
The whole “Moonflower” album is quality from beginning to end. I love the vocals of Greg Walker. Here’s the opening sequence of Dawn/Go Within/Carnival/Let The Children Play:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEeqRcQcaqc
JamVet
February 16th, 2013
8:50 pm
B, I’ve always love that song and it does have one of my favorite lines in all of rockdom:
The price of meat has just gone up
And your old lady has just gone down
I love how masterpieces like this one take their own time to get where they’re going…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRe42BDK_R4
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 16th, 2013
8:51 pm
While we’re on the subject -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYE3sISvbOQ
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 16th, 2013
8:51 pm
For decades, an increasingly large percentage of our economic output has been moved from the positive-sum game of markets and private property to the zero-sum game of government and politics. According to the Office of Management and Budget, total government spending in the U.S. rose from 17 percent of GDP in 1948 to 35 percent in 2010. As public choice theory predicts, the more resources government bureaucracies control, the more lobbyists, crony capitalists, and entitlement clients will appear seeking to divert handouts into their pockets. Such would-be beneficiaries need experts to construct the facts that they use to justify to political patrons and agency bureaucrats why they deserve a share of the government’s largesse. To the extent that we live in a “post-truth era,” it is in good measure because it pays so well to dissemble, exaggerate, and spin for government grants and favors.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324445904578283682238370190.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEFTTopOpinion
————————–
Government IS the problem.
And the post-truth Democrats want to make it even more so.
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
8:55 pm
One of the prettiest songs I’ve ever heard, again from “Moonflower”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjk7uZ5fsZk
Hillbilly D
February 16th, 2013
8:58 pm
JamVet 8:50
The piano in this is almost the same as in the Low Spark of High Heeled Boys. Of course, it’s the same guy playing both.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hnrsqf33MXA
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
9:02 pm
Back at ya, Aesop:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDzxn66W3uM
Hillbilly D
February 16th, 2013
9:04 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykCXBQfkfwA
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 16th, 2013
9:05 pm
Keeping with the theme -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9etOe4nWltw
It’s not hard to see the beauty of it all
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
9:10 pm
Some physicists have described reality as occurring in invisible layers, kind of like a “glass onion”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He2EZ6-VOOk
Hillbilly D
February 16th, 2013
9:12 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiNLsjhChng
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
9:14 pm
Awwww, Aesop showing his soft side @ 9:05. No Libs here to witness it, too bad.
Hillbilly D
February 16th, 2013
9:17 pm
Glen never wrote many songs but he did contribute to this one. Considering where he’s at in life and his condition, it’s pretty powerful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGmwihgb6VI
JamVet
February 16th, 2013
9:20 pm
it is kind of mind blowing just how much we still love that band, isn’t it?
And awesome trivia fact, HD…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCNqHIKJ4wk
Georgia
February 16th, 2013
9:25 pm
String theory infers that the universe is an illusion. I mean, we can see light that is 12 billion years old?. What does that even mean? Some say that what we observe is a hologram beamed from the edges of the universe. What does that mean? If we can see the light from pre-galaxies, and then see the light from those same galaxies as they are born, and then see the light from those same galaxies as they enter middle age, and then see the light from those same galaxies as they collide into each other and become annihilated, then wtf does that mean? Does space time exist in a snapshot? That a camera can record all of space time so that an observer can see all of the universe’s expansion at once? Space time? WTF?
All it means is that it takes an observer. That was Einstein’s only point. The point nobody gets. It takes an observer to invent space time and general and special relativity. and strings and holograms and everything…….
“Let there be light”: Isn’t that the best explanation of the birth of our universe ever uttered?
I don’t know. I’m just an observer.
JamVet
February 16th, 2013
9:26 pm
HD, back at ya from a rock and roll alternative.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhrQgw70kO8
Hillbilly D
February 16th, 2013
9:27 pm
JamVet
People who don’t really know will say that the Beatles weren’t really that good of musicians and their songs weren’t very complex. That was probably true in their early days but by Rubber Soul and Revolver, that had pretty well changed. They knew a lot instinctively and they had George Martin to learn from and they soaked it up like sponges.
This would probably bore most folks but it’s fascinating to me. This is an Italian guy (he’s an amp manufacturer/designer) who breaks down Beatles’ stuff. There was more going on than people realized.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5kXaPb0dWE
JamVet
February 16th, 2013
9:33 pm
“Let there be light”: Isn’t that the best explanation of the birth of our universe ever uttered?
I don’t buy it.
Some great intelligent being designed and operates all of this?
That seems as preposterous as the idea this is all random and unexplainable.
Just my 2 cents’ (apparently never adjusted for inflation) worth.
Short and very sweet…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGm7fj0Usrw
JamVet
February 16th, 2013
9:38 pm
HD, as you know, Harrison was my fave and I gravitated to his songs on those albums.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Y9W8tgXKQU
Hillbilly D
February 16th, 2013
9:40 pm
This is Randy Bachman, no slouch as a musician himself, talking about the Beatles. (The discussion underneath is pretty interesting, as well. So much disagreement as to what actually was used).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvxPc5MPEuQ
Hillbilly D
February 16th, 2013
9:42 pm
Aesop
Ever heard this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etcT7VRIAWA
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 16th, 2013
9:56 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8DtGVeSGVE
You think I’m kidding?
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
9:57 pm
For anyone who isn’t an Alabama fan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEjLMEV-MyA
Hillbilly D
February 16th, 2013
10:08 pm
And for anyone who is……
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8J82bXBH_8
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
10:09 pm
I mean, we can see light that is 12 billion years old?. What does that even mean?
One unresolved issue in Physics, IMO, is that of instantaneous-action-at-a-distance. Newton’s vision of gravity implies that the effects of gravity occur instantaneously, and over unlimited distances. According to Modern Physics, however, no type of information can travel faster than the speed of light. Einstein got around that problem by hypothesizing that mass distorts space-time itself. As Particle Physics became popular, a hypothetical particle has been proposed to be the intermediary which “transmits” gravity, the graviton.
Whatever happened to “We don’t really know”??
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 16th, 2013
10:10 pm
There is one thing that is truly universal and you scientists can have yours -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtGNXbJl5bw
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
10:12 pm
HD–I don’t think that Neil Young was very fond of Alabama:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD3bGEFxGC0
Hillbilly D
February 16th, 2013
10:17 pm
This one’s for Neil
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBwTAGgsRoQ
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
10:22 pm
This is Randy Bachman, no slouch as a musician himself
Out of curiosity, HD, would a Canadian be held in higher or lower esteem than a Yankee in the eyes of a Southerner?? After all, Canada is even farther North than us, and they’re not even Americans…..
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
10:23 pm
I’m still liking JJ Cale’s version of “The Breeze”:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlppIdtLw5A
Hillbilly D
February 16th, 2013
10:24 pm
Bruno
I can only speak for me but I’ve always liked Canada. A tad cold but nice folks.
Hillbilly D
February 16th, 2013
10:24 pm
Well, they’re nice until somebody drops a puck, anyway.
Hillbilly D
February 16th, 2013
10:29 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__iBZ8FTc6Q
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
10:29 pm
One more Minnie Riperton that I like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVniMFJYY1o
Hillbilly D
February 16th, 2013
10:33 pm
It ain’t politically correct but “gonna git Hank Aaron’s baseball bat and tenderize her head” is one of the great lines, in music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BePz4N156-Q
Hillbilly D
February 16th, 2013
10:40 pm
In keeping with one of the themes tonight, the fiddler has a Ph.D. in theoretical plasma physics from M. I. T. (Listen to the story after the music).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGZv9Ovo2Ug
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
10:41 pm
Back at ya, HD:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21ph2y3EYNI
Hillbilly D
February 16th, 2013
10:45 pm
This guy was a Canadian and the song actually originated in Australia. Somebody got a hold of it and adapted it to the North America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W47c6w46Cgc
Hillbilly D
February 16th, 2013
10:48 pm
Just found this, the Aussie version.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeadSspZDzM
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
11:01 pm
Just found this, the Aussie version.
This song sounds susp-iciously like the Aussie version as well, you think??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-9fk12ZWiU
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
11:04 pm
I can hear that same beat in this song as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVmB3lRjCmc
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
11:10 pm
Kind of a real slowed down version of that beat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR-A4QFHZBA
Hillbilly D
February 16th, 2013
11:10 pm
Bruno
It’s more obvious in the first one. The verses are pretty much identical. The REM one is either coincidence or they hid it well, in my opinion.
Gotta run.
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
11:25 pm
For the night owls:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLKiMbC6s2k
James
February 16th, 2013
11:53 pm
We need a new stadium so that the drunks can watch the thugs. ( and make the NFL and Owners richer ) Stupid people make rich people richer.
Techfan
February 17th, 2013
5:11 am
“Atlanta Stadium and Turner Field have been in pretty much the same location, since 1966 and that neighborhood doesn’t seem to have been helped one bit by it. ” I don’t know about this one. It’s been years since I’ve been to a game, but I remember you had to pay to park, then pay some guy to watch your car, then pay somebody to watch the guy watching your car,………
Michael H. Smith
February 17th, 2013
7:47 am
First I’ve been down on professional sports from since the football strike of the ’70s. Having said that the second objection leads to the fiscal side of these pro team and stadium ventures which seem to never prove profitable where taxpayers and our monies are involved. Third objection is the more obvious one n most minds around the state, which is, don’t we have better things to do with our tax revenues at the moment than build a new stadium when as a goodly number of our citizenry say the present stadium will serve the needs.
Now for something off topic and hot button:
obama’s idea on time (or part punish) required for transitioning illegal residents to legal residency status to begin the naturalization process also known as the path to citizenship is in my opinion simply too long. OMG! Did I say that? Yep!
The time required in my opinion to gain “legal status” better known as the pathway to legalization(or “permanent legal residency” not citizenship) should only take 2 years not 7 years with all other obligation being met like admitting to the crime of illegal entry, having no felonies or pending felony cases, paying all unpaid taxes own, learning U.S. English.
From The NY Times
The White House Continues Working on Immigration Legislation of Its Own
….On Saturday, USA Today reported that it had obtained portions of the president’s draft legislation. The newspaper said the bill would allow illegal immigrants to become permanent residents within eight years and in the meantime apply for a “Lawful Prospective Immigrant” visa. Mr. Stevens and other White House officials declined to comment on specific details of the report….
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/us/politics/white-house-moves-ahead-on-its-own-immigration-bill.html
PS. A great number of other items will certainly needs be addressed, though, the “earned clemency” to obtain a “green card” should not impose a unreasonable length of penalty time to gain legal status.
indigo
February 17th, 2013
8:37 am
James – 11:53 “stupid people make rich people richer”
The tools who are rushing out and buying more guns because they’re afraid of a Govt. takeover are at the head of that list.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 17th, 2013
8:45 am
Stupid people make rich people richer.
———————–
No, people purchase products and services they need. “Rich” people provide these things at a price that people are willing to pay. No one’s putting a gun to your head forcing you to go to a Falcons game.
Stupid people oppose free market capitalism.
James
February 17th, 2013
8:55 am
Lil Barry, Free Market Capitalism is not TAXING citizens so that a select few prosper.
Let the owners foot the money .
bob
February 17th, 2013
8:55 am
Of course we do not need a new stadium but the economy is still slow. The stadium is a shovel ready project, maybe we could get some Obama slush fund money to build it.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 17th, 2013
9:02 am
James: Let the owners foot the money.
——————–
No argument there. Cronyism is not capitalism.
Michael H. Smith
February 17th, 2013
9:15 am
Afraid of a government takeover or the authoritarian takeover of the Republican form of governance?
The latter individuals refuse to suffer the fools who rush to willingly give up essential liberties of all in exchange for a lasting security of none.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 17th, 2013
9:16 am
Good morning all….Your pool is inside the compound of the Floridian, the gated golf community where POTUS is playing and staying this weekend.
Focused like a laser on jobs, I can see.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 17th, 2013
9:24 am
Unfortunately, Americans are so consumed by resentment they haven’t noticed the president’s spread-the-wealth ploy isn’t working for them. Not one dollar of the $68 billion tax hike wrested from the wealthy in January ended up in middle class pockets.
Instead, their paychecks got smaller.
You have to give obozo credit, he knows his slack jawed minions will swallow every lie that emerges from his filthy mouth.
Larry
February 17th, 2013
9:48 am
Bring on the new stadium. We want Major League Soccer and we want it now.
md
February 17th, 2013
10:42 am
“The tools who are rushing out and buying more guns because they’re afraid of a Govt. takeover are at the head of that list.”
And the irony lies in the fact that the rush is in part fueled by the very people that don’t like guns……
md
February 17th, 2013
10:45 am
“Lil Barry, Free Market Capitalism is not TAXING citizens so that a select few prosper.”
Any idea what the overall economic impact is to the city with and without a team?
It’s not just rich people making money, there are a myriad of jobs associated with the team all the way down to the guy selling peanuts, water, and T-shirts on the sidewalk…….
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 17th, 2013
11:24 am
indigo
Guns hold their value, stadiums depreciate. With the current state of the Obamadollar, anything that keeps or increases your net work is a good investment.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 17th, 2013
11:26 am
Hating those who make lots of money is for the low-information folks who think the size of the economy is fixed. Ironically, with their Idiot Messiah in office, it is!
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 17th, 2013
11:30 am
md
I don’t know what the value to the city/state of the team is, but whatever they say it is, is more than likely exaggerated greatly. They never take into account that disposable income is going to be spent, and what it is spent on is a personal decision, but people tend to spend their disposable income whether there is an NFL team in town or not. If no team they would attend more movies, more college sports, more concerts, eat out more, etc.
As a matter of principal, government should stay out of free enterprise capitalism.
indigo
February 17th, 2013
11:38 am
Michael H. Smith – 9:15
If you think your guns could protect you from F-18 Super Hornets, tanks, artillery, flame throwers, JDAM’s and other military hardware, then the NRA and gun manufacturers truly love you.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 17th, 2013
11:44 am
If you think Americans are going to attack their fellow citizens with F-18 Super Hornets, tanks, artillery, flame throwers, JDAM’s and other military hardware, then you probably voted for Obozo and think he should be considering it.
md
February 17th, 2013
11:54 am
Rafe, fair point, but when it comes to major sports teams there is also an out of town factor involved, even within the State.
MrLiberty
February 17th, 2013
12:01 pm
No, the only question that should be asked about the stadium is “why taxpayer dollars?”
Crony capitalism has already destroyed this country at the Federal level. Why does it need to reach into state and local politics?
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 17th, 2013
12:01 pm
md, if we lose our NFL team though, the fans here in Georgia won’t be taking their tourism dollars to other cities.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 17th, 2013
12:07 pm
Two words for any U.S. city fearing they have no choice but to cave to their local NFL owner…
Jacksonville Jaguars.
md
February 17th, 2013
12:20 pm
“md, if we lose our NFL team though, the fans here in Georgia won’t be taking their tourism dollars to other cities.”
Now that depends on whether one is going to the the game to see the home team or the visiting team…..the Atl isn’t exactly a homer town, as evidenced by the numerous out of town jerseys at all home games. Especially the Braves when the likes of the Cubs and Yankees come to town……
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 17th, 2013
12:25 pm
Measured by “accumulated cyclone energy,” hurricane and other tropical cyclone activity is at a three-decade low, and the journal Nature reports that globally “there has been little change in drought over the past 60 years.”
So what are the libs babbling about?
indigo
February 17th, 2013
12:38 pm
Barry – 11:44
No Barry, I DON’T think that.
But, a great many the gun nuts do.
Hillbilly D
February 17th, 2013
12:40 pm
The Thrashers left, and I hated to see that, but has it made any real difference in the grand scheme of things? Not really.
indigo
February 17th, 2013
12:44 pm
Aesop – 12:25
1. Global warming is a reality.
2. It’s probably caused by man-made emissions.
3. We don’t know how long it will last.
4. If it does last for at least 100 years, we don’t know how bad it will get.
After considering all the anti-warming posts here and elsewhere it seems we are talking about two separate things.
I and others say it is happening.
You and others say it probably won’t be so bad.
None of us know how bad it might eventally get, or when it might get to be really bad. But, who wants to wait until it’s so bad that nothing can be done?
Honest discussion and foresight are needed.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 17th, 2013
12:46 pm
a great many the gun nuts do
——————–
And a great many of the gun control freaks think Our Second Amendment is about hunting.
Equally demented.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 17th, 2013
12:48 pm
But, who wants to wait until it’s so bad that nothing can be done?
—————
Senate Democrats, apparently, who refused to pass even the wimpy Obozo cap-and-trade scheme.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 17th, 2013
12:53 pm
4. If it does last for at least 100 years, we don’t know how bad it will get.
Actually, global warming has been happening since………………the Ice Age.
Come out from under the bed, indie, it’ll be OK.
MarkV
February 17th, 2013
1:23 pm
indigo @ 12:44 pm
Give up, indigo. You are trying to argue about “global warming” with someone who does not understand the word “global.”
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 17th, 2013
1:33 pm
MIT’s Dr. Lindzen: “Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early 21st century’s developed world went into hysterical panic over a globally averaged temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and, on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to contemplate a roll-back of the industrial age.’
md
February 17th, 2013
1:41 pm
“The Thrashers left, and I hated to see that, but has it made any real difference in the grand scheme of things? Not really.”
I’m not sure we can use the Thrashers as a gauge considering hockey has a hard time in many cities outside Canada and the northern US.
Same with soccer (Champion Atlanta Chiefs?)…….
The core sports in the area are football and baseball, and even the Braves are questionable when it comes to fan support (Hence the number of out of town team support)
Football in the south? A whole different animal…….
MarkV
February 17th, 2013
1:45 pm
Aesop’s Fables and other Lib Economic Theories @1:33 pm
“MIT’s Dr. Lindzen: “Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early 21st century’s developed world went into hysterical panic over a globally averaged temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and, on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to contemplate a roll-back of the industrial age.’”
Among the experts most offended by Dr. Lindzen’s stance are many of his colleagues in the M.I.T. atmospheric sciences department, some of whom were once as skeptical as he about climate change.
“Even if there were no political implications, it just seems deeply unprofessional and irresponsible to look at this and say, ‘We’re sure it’s not a problem,’ ” said Kerry A. Emanuel, another M.I.T. scientist. “It’s a special kind of risk, because it’s a risk to the collective civilization.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/01/science/earth/clouds-effect-on-climate-change-is-last-bastion-for-dissenters.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
md
February 17th, 2013
1:45 pm
“2. It’s probably caused by man-made emissions.
3. We don’t know how long it will last.”
Possible, not probable……hence the debate.
What percentage of the change is natural cycle? Give me that number and then we may get somewhere in the debate……..
Correct, we don’t know how long it will last because we have no idea what the natural cycle is…….
And don’t kid yourself to think we can use data for a few hundred or thousand years and compare it to a million or billion year cycle…….that is where all the assumptions begin……
indigo
February 17th, 2013
1:46 pm
MarkV – 1:23
Are you saying I’m just a glutton for punishment?
Now that I think about it, “utterly, totally and completely hopeless” does seem to be the operative phrase in trying to reason with those who have no sense of reason.
Skip
February 17th, 2013
1:48 pm
The Thrashers left? How many noticed?
indigo
February 17th, 2013
1:50 pm
Aesop, md
Here are some facts about global warming.
Our course, you will probably say The National Geographic Society is just a liberal, socialist, Marxist anti-American publication.
Right?
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/12/1206_041206_global_warming.html
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 17th, 2013
1:55 pm
In a new report Hansen, Sato and Ruedy (2013) acknowledge the existence of a standstill in global temperature lasting a decade. This is a welcome contribution to the study of global temperature. When others reached the same conclusion they have been ridiculed; so this admission should provide some pause for reflection by those who have attacked the very idea of a recent temperature standstill, often without understanding the data, focusing on who was making the argument and their alleged non-scientific motives. The bottom line is that the recent global temperature standstill is a real event. David Whitehouse, The Global Warming Policy Foundation, 17 January 2013
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 17th, 2013
1:57 pm
Global Warming Fast Facts
National Geographic News
Updated June 14, 2007<—————————–
Got anything recent I can tear up, indie?
Hillbilly D
February 17th, 2013
1:58 pm
md @ 1:41
True, football outdraws hockey but football has 8 regular season dates at home and hockey has 41. So, granted football has a bigger impact but it might not be as pronounced as you’d think, at first glance. Eight dates at 60,000 per would be 480,000 spectators and 41 dates at 10,000 per would be 410,000. Those are just off the top of my head guesstimates but I think you’ll see where I’m coming from.
Pre-season would probably be close to a wash and post-season would depend entirely on the teams. The Thrashers had a little post season play and the Falcons have done well, lately. However, in hockey you have games in both cities, every round, whereas in football, you may have all the games or none of the games, depending on your seed.
Anyway, I don’t think public money should go for private businesses, sports teams or not.
indigo
February 17th, 2013
2:46 pm
Aesop – 1:55 – 1:57
Here’s a tip: Your fundamentalist parents, teachers and pastor are NOT qualified to teach you what real science is.
Neither is The Global Warming Policy Foundation.
And, I don’t think the National Geographic has changed their position in the last six years
http://www.onlinesentinel.com/opinion/letters/scientific-truth-isnt-decided-by-majority-vote_2013-02-06.html
Shine
February 17th, 2013
3:06 pm
It would be easier to accept a new stadium like the others got if they too had multiple Super Bowl championships. How many is it the Falcoons have won? Let Blank pay for his own stadium.
fair and balanced
February 17th, 2013
3:22 pm
Falcons can pack up and leave tomorrow for all I care. With Dome almost paid for and in need of minimal repairs (which should be in reserves if properly managed) Atlanta has a lot
to offer in savings to another football team paying higher shares elsewhere,
md
February 17th, 2013
3:28 pm
From “fast facts”:
“The rate of warming is increasing. The 20th century’s last two decades were the hottest in 400 years and possibly the warmest for several millennia, according to a number of climate studies.”
Notice the reference to “400 years”, why not 4 million years? 4 billion years?
And then notice the terminology used in the next sentence……”possibly”.
They use those terms for a reason…….and it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out what those terms mean……they mean they are not sure if one needs help.
Which is why I said the debate is about possibilities, NOT probabilities…….only an arrogant human will think they know the unknowable……
md
February 17th, 2013
3:29 pm
“Anyway, I don’t think public money should go for private businesses, sports teams or not.”
Does that include using tax incentives to lure industry to the various States?
md
February 17th, 2013
3:37 pm
Ever wonder how the allies got their fuel during the invasion of the Continent?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv9lBqPVuoE&feature=uploademail
Hillbilly D
February 17th, 2013
3:46 pm
Does that include using tax incentives to lure industry to the various States?
Yes it does.
md
February 17th, 2013
3:48 pm
Well then, we disagree. I’d prefer to forgo a few tax dollars up front in exchange for the jobs and future taxes generated from those jobs……
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
4:23 pm
Enter your comments here
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
4:29 pm
Poor MarkV and indigo–Can’t think for themselves, so are reduced to putting up links which don’t even agree with them.
But, while we’re throwing partisan websites up, here’s one from FOX news which shows how the IPCC computer models have all overstated the temperature gains in the past 20 years.
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/01/28/un-climate-report-models-overestimated-global-warming/?test=latestnews#ixzz2JKHwlQ9W
From the article: ““The IPCC’s claim is that they are 90 percent sure that humans have ‘contributed to’ the observed warming. Hell, even I would agree with that innocuous statement.”
But he says it does indicate that greenhouse gases are having less of an affect on climate than the IPCC thought.
“It is evidence that CO2 is not nearly as strong a climate driver as the IPCC has been assuming. This is the possibility they do not allow to be considered, because it would end all of their policy-changing goals,” he said.
Strange how these Libs can’t handle dissent very well. Maybe not as “diverse” and “tolerant” as they portray themselves to be………..
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
4:33 pm
Don’t think we’ve played any Bee Gees lately:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X89fCiZs_Lc
indigo
February 17th, 2013
4:34 pm
Bruno – 4:29
You might want to consider the source before posting somehting here.
And, exactly HOW do links I put up here no agree with me?
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2009/12/14/three-months-after-humiliating-retraction-fox-g/158137
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
4:36 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4qrEOCNr3g
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
4:43 pm
And, exactly HOW do links I put up here no agree with me?
The name of the link you put up at 2:46 is entitled “Scientific truth isn’t decided by majority vote”.
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
4:44 pm
This song came out about the time I was sneaking into bars for the first time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHSQbftDD8I
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
4:48 pm
For indigo and MarkV:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVjITlgqlHo
Dusty
February 17th, 2013
4:54 pm
Well, climate change isn’t exactly what interests me. When my feet get cold, I’m inclined to read a little more. Baby, it’s cold outside la la la etc.
As to a new stadium, hold on folks. Don’t do one thing that might disturb our BRAVES. They might want something new besides players. You can ship the Falcons to Timbuktu as far as I am concerned but they can get brain damage any place. Not that I want them to get that. No! They have so much fun knocking each down for millions. Don’t wish to stop their enjoyment either.
Has anyone seen JOSEF? I have a book, new to me.. I wanted to ask his opinion. He’s probably read it.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 17th, 2013
4:54 pm
Someone the other day had the best description of Global Warming: what happens between ice ages.
md
Being a non prog/lib, I try to be consistent with my positions, so I too am against government being used to fund private enterprise, even to procure jobs. These companies that are so shallow as to auction off their future locations, usually stay awhile and then move on for the next offer. I watched as Cooper Tires, bled Albany, GA dry, and then packed up and moved to MS, when a better offer came along, after begging Albany to bargain against Mississippi. I know bargaining is the way to bring home the jobs, it just goes against my principals.
It is kinda like having one cable provider, who will give new customers all these great deals, but existing customers can just go straight to heck, because they aren’t eligible for the deal. If I had a business that was getting hammered with taxes, and you offered my competitor to move in and gave them a tax incentive, I would go ballistic.
Halftrack
February 17th, 2013
5:04 pm
The Falcons want fans from all over GA. not just in Atlanta. They avoid traffic gridlock, etc.- if a new stadium should be built in the suburbs. When the stadium is convenient to usher fans to other merchants such as eating, motels, hotels,entertainment, and especially parking, etc.everyone benefits. More tax money is generated for the city. Atlanta grows.
md
February 17th, 2013
5:05 pm
And I’d still take that gamble every day of the week for jobs.
What are we giving up, taxes we won’t get anyhow?
That is what confounds me, if the company never comes to Ga, we never get the tax revenue to begin with, so what is it hurting to tell them to come here and not pay taxes for a given period of time?
It’s the same with the offshore profits…..if it never comes home we get 0%. Let it come home at 0% and we at least have it in our system, and it will get taxed rolling around the system……
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 17th, 2013
5:07 pm
Baltimore, St Louis, and Cleveland all lost NFL teams. All now have better teams than those that moved. Atlanta would be in the same boat, large football crazed town in region known to love football, which is part of a vast media market. Couple of years without and some NFL team would start trying to put their strong arm out to extort their present city, and use Atlanta as a threat. Atlanta would load up a truck with incentives and bring them home, and we would be back where we started, but maybe a little wiser, hah!
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
5:10 pm
Here’s a Forbes article entitled “New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmism”
http://news.yahoo.com/nasa-data-blow-gaping-hold-global-warming-alarmism-192334971.html
From the article: “NASA satellite data from the years 2000 through 2011 show the Earth’s atmosphere is allowing far more heat to be released into space than alarmist computer models have predicted, reports a new study in the peer-reviewed science journal Remote Sensing. The study indicates far less future global warming will occur than United Nations computer models have predicted, and supports prior studies indicating increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide trap far less heat than alarmists have claimed.”
indigo
February 17th, 2013
5:17 pm
Bruno
I never said scientific truth was decided by a majority vote. Scientific truth is decided by properly using the Scientific Method.
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
5:19 pm
And that pesky water vapor problem keeps muddying the waters. From the WSJ:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304636404577291352882984274.html
“The direct warming due to doubling CO2 levels in the atmosphere can be calculated to cause a warming of about one degree Celsius. The IPCC computer models predict a much larger warming, three degrees Celsius or even more, because they assume changes in water vapor or clouds that supposedly amplify the direct warming from CO2. Many lines of observational evidence suggest that this “positive feedback” also has been greatly exaggerated.”
Water vapor, clouds and dust, oh my!! Water vapor, clouds and dust, oh my!!
josef
February 17th, 2013
5:19 pm
DUSTY
Getalife told me you were asking about me…Yes ma’am? How may I be of service?
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 17th, 2013
5:19 pm
If global warming was completely discredited and the “scientific consensus” agreed, progtards would find some other vehicle with which to bash free-market capitalism.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 17th, 2013
5:20 pm
md
To me it is much akin to negotiating with hostages. Once you start buying employers where do you start. If some of the big companies were smart, they would start demanding concessions with threats of moving. How many concessions would Georgia give, if Coca Cola said they were planning to move to TX?
I am with you on the offshore money, but I see that as a one time exemption. No other company is likely to just run over seas just to avoid taxes, there has to a business advantage to being there beside tax avoidance. Maybe I am wrong, I just don’t see that as the same situation, as incentives to relocate a business.
md
February 17th, 2013
5:22 pm
“Baltimore, St Louis, and Cleveland all lost NFL teams. All now have better teams than those that moved.”
Yet LA, the #2 media market in the country has been without a team for 17 years and has been trying desperately to lure another team for years……..
It’s still a business, and will go where the money is, or stay where an owner is willing to take the losses if there are any.
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
5:23 pm
I never said scientific truth was decided by a majority vote.
That’s what you do every time you refer to the “97%” of climatologists” who validate their own conclusions.
Scientific truth is decided by properly using the Scientific Method.
Which in this case, hasn’t happened yet. Until all of the pertinent variables are accounted for, and until the predictions generated by the current computer models match the observed predictions more closely, then nothing is settled.
indigo
February 17th, 2013
5:25 pm
Bruno – 5:10
That download is authored by James Taylor of The Heartland Institute, a mostly Big Business funded group.
I think I’ll take The National Geographic’s views over theirs.
indigo
February 17th, 2013
5:28 pm
Bruno – 5:19
And, the author of this download is a physicist, NOT an atmospheric scientist.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 17th, 2013
5:29 pm
LBB
Environmentalism is all about control with the progs/libs. The environmental movement is an easier way to control capitalism, individualism, and free markets than it is to change public support enough to vote restrictions in. When public opinion consistently runs against their position they try and use other sources, like the courts, the UN, or environmentalism. They try to keep us all pulling that entitlement wagon and it is dangerous, for people to think for themselves and break free.
MarkV
February 17th, 2013
5:34 pm
Dusty @ 4:54 pm
“Well, climate change isn’t exactly what interests me.”
Dusty,
Perhaps it should. I am not saying that you should delve into the pseudo-scientific debate on this blog, but you have children, and they have or may have children, don’t they? Should not you take a stand?
Let me tell you a hypothetical case, but one that has a clear bearing on the global warming issue. Let’s imagine that one day the astronomers will announced a discovery of a new object, a comet, or an news asteroid, something like that. They and the astrophysicists start making measurements, and after a while they will reveal some shocking news. The preliminary calculations show the object might collide with the Earth in a few years. Although not so big to extinguish life on Earth, it would cause enormous damage, such a destruction of countries continent. They cannot pinpoint yet the exact site of impact.
There are some skeptics, however, including a few prominent scientists from other fields. They question the data, they question the methods. They claim that the calculations are not as good as claimed.
What to do, people ask the scientists. They provide some alternatives, such as sending a space vehicle to rendezvous with the object and try to deflect it from the course, or use space-positioned lasers to destroy it. Any such alternative would require almost immediate start of the work.
The deniers rise again. There is uncertainty in the calculations, they show. The proposed methods would consume enormous resources, which could be used for other purposes if the collision does not happen. After many discussions, and discovery of various errors and mistakes and even misdeeds on the side of some, the conclusion supported by an overwhelming majority the specialists is that there will be indeed such an impact.
What will be your choice? Not about the kind of action – let’s leave that to the professionals. But will you support the action recommended by an overwhelming consensus of specialists, or the deniers?
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 17th, 2013
5:36 pm
LA is too Urbane for blue collar football. They never supported the Rams and I doubt with the entitlement society they run, they could afford to build a Taj Mahal stadium that would please one of these fickle NFL owners.
indigo
February 17th, 2013
5:38 pm
Bruno – 5:23
From the 2:46 link
“but one more thing Harmon doesn’t note is that 97% of the members of the National Academy of Sciences understand human activity to be warming the earth significantly.
I’m at a loss to understand why you and others totally reject what 97% of these scientists believe.
And, they are presenting their findings, NOT voting.
md
February 17th, 2013
5:38 pm
And as with HD, I just don’t agree. I’d prefer to give up some corp tax in exchange for the jobs as those jobs will always be a source of tax revenue. Lose the corp and the jobs ALL the tax revenue goes away.
But I also don’t think corps should pay any tax, as it’s just factored into the cost of the good or service and we pay it.
indigo
February 17th, 2013
5:40 pm
Bruno
Study this and come in out of the dark ages.
http://www.nasonline.org/
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 17th, 2013
5:42 pm
Perhaps it should. I am not saying that you should delve into the pseudo-scientific debate on this blog, but you have children, and they have or may have children, don’t they? Should not you take a stand?
MarkV: You are so worried about something that “might” happen that would adversely affect Dusty’s children, yet you mock Dusty for being so concerned about the national debt, which will severely affect her children. You have misplaced priorities, IMO.
Her children will be so impoverished, they might rejoice if Dusty’s house became beachfront property.
Hillbilly D
February 17th, 2013
5:44 pm
In my opinion, industries locate wherever is best for them to locate. They pretty well know where they are going before they ever let it be known they are moving. They just find a couple/three localities to “negotiate” with, to get themselves some free money. It’s a sucker’s game and these local and state governments fall for it, over and over.
When you help one business, you’re de facto hurting their competitors, be they in the same industry or an industry that’s in competition with them.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 17th, 2013
5:48 pm
md
We agree, just drop corporate taxes other than property, they are just passed on as you point out.
getalife
February 17th, 2013
5:48 pm
Money over our planet is ignorant and greedy..
The first thing we should cut is big oil welfare but our congress can’t even cut that low hanging fruit.
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
5:48 pm
I’m at a loss to understand why you and others totally reject what 97% of these scientists believe.
I well explained that in my 5:23. Using any reasonable definition of “Science”, climatology isn’t it. Now, you’re more than welcome to accept the conclusions of the IPCC or whoever else you think speaks authoritatively, but that doesn’t make it the truth. Though you and MarkV are more than happy to put your Lib blinders on, significant room for doubt still exists about AGW. Instead of making blind appeals to authority, why don’t you take a few minutes and educate yourself as to WHY significant doubt exists.
http://www.friendsofscience.org/assets/documents/FOS%20Essay/Climate_Change_Science.html
md
February 17th, 2013
5:48 pm
“I think I’ll take The National Geographic’s views over theirs.”
You do realize that the guy running the NGS is a democrat….right?
md
February 17th, 2013
5:50 pm
“LA is too Urbane for blue collar football. They never supported the Rams and I doubt with the entitlement society they run, they could afford to build a Taj Mahal stadium that would please one of these fickle NFL owners.”
Rafe, fyi:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/28/us-la-footballstadium-idUSBRE88R1ET20120928
MarkV
February 17th, 2013
5:52 pm
Rafe @ 5:42 pm
“MarkV: You are so worried about something that “might” happen that would adversely affect Dusty’s children, yet you mock Dusty for being so concerned about the national debt, which will severely affect her children. You have misplaced priorities, IMO.”
Rafe,
Is the above supposed to be an argument in the global warming debate, or just as pretext for attacking me? And what exactly are my “misplaced priorities?”
As for the essence of your claim, the comparison is plain silly. On one side there is opinion of a vast majority of climatologists of the devastation that global warming might cause to the earth, and which might not be possible to avert if we wait too long. On the other side is the national debt that is disturbing but in no way catastrophic. Let me remind you that this country has a national debt/GDP ratio highest than we have now, and survived very well.
Hillbilly D
February 17th, 2013
5:54 pm
I read the National Geographic, cover to cover, every month. A few years back they had a big article on the discovery of a new dinosaur, complete with a nice artist’s rendering of what the dinosaur looked like. A closer reading revealed that what they actually found was a piece of a leg bone. The rest was conjecture.
Another time, they had a big article on the Iceman found frozen in the Alps. After a forensic examination of the mummy, or whatever you want to call the guy, they had a detailed story about his last two days of life. Again, a lot of that was conjecture.
That’s two examples off the top of my head.
So I read the National Geographic, enjoy it, and learn from it, but still, it’s like anything else, some of it is to be taken with a grain of salt.
MarkV
February 17th, 2013
5:55 pm
“has a national debt/GDP ratio highest” should have been “had a
national debt/GDP ratio higher” Sorry.
MarkV
February 17th, 2013
5:58 pm
Rafe @ 5:42 pm
Moreover, Rafe, I am not “ so worried about something that “might” happen that would adversely affect Dusty’s children.” I only suggest that perhaps Dusty should be.
md
February 17th, 2013
5:59 pm
“In my opinion, industries locate wherever is best for them to locate. They pretty well know where they are going before they ever let it be known they are moving.”
And I agree with that statement to a degree. Take the car companies, they knew one certainty, they were NOT going to a non-right to work state. After that, it came down to quite a few factors as to which RTW state they wanted and one of the biggies is always cost.
It’s still business, and they have a fiduciary duty to the shareholder to get that cost down and those profits up. As for companies already here, they too are here for a reason and must also calculate the cost of moving vs the freebies they may get elsewhere. And a big part of that is moving one’s employee base.
So we’ll just have to disagree on that part of doing business…..
indigo
February 17th, 2013
6:01 pm
Bruno
It makes no sense to just airly dismiss the findings of 97% of these scientists.
So, I wonder.
Are you just terrified of global warming? Does the thought of it cause you sleepless nights? Do you think denying it will just make it go away?
Or, do you see it in strictly political terms? Since you don’t like liberals, you won’t accept any science you think is liberal?
Or, does it please you to support Big Business? Do you not realize that, to them, you’re nothing more than a tool?
md
February 17th, 2013
6:02 pm
“Money over our planet is ignorant and greedy..”
Being kind to the planet makes sense, but so does being kind to the masses in their energy costs as a starving group of people won’t much care about the planet if they are hungry.
josef
February 17th, 2013
6:02 pm
HILLBILLY
Who do you think you’re fooling? We know you just look at the pictures.
md
February 17th, 2013
6:04 pm
And remember, when a company is moving away from a non rtw state, they are already realizing a cost savings just from moving while the companies already in that locale don’t necessarily have that savings.
indigo
February 17th, 2013
6:04 pm
Bruno – 5:48
How is it you don’t realize that basing scientific beliefs on this dubious source only makes you look foolish.
md
February 17th, 2013
6:06 pm
“It makes no sense to just airly dismiss the findings of 97% of these scientists.”
Yet not a single one of the 97% can give you a number as to what percentage of the warming is caused by a natural cycle……that should be your warning.
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
6:06 pm
MarkV: Perhaps it should. I am not saying that you should delve into the pseudo-scientific debate on this blog, but you have children, and they have or may have children, don’t they? Should not you take a stand?
MarkV–The alternative to taking some kind of drastic action now based upon doomsday scenarios which have already been proven false is not to do nothing, as you seem to imply. A reasonable course of action, IMO, is to continue reducing pollutants in the atmosphere (not just CO2, which isn’t really a pollutant), while continuing to invest in atmospheric research. Like military spending, the US already spends more than the rest of the world combined, in case you didn’t know.
My biggest suggestion, however, is for the Science to move forward in a non-political way. The first job of a real scientist is to prove himself wrong – that is to list the numerous way that the results my be in error and how the conclusions are limited. Right now, the opposite is occurring. Dissenting voices are being shouted down and data is being bent or ignored outright if it doesn’t support the predetermined conclusion that man-made CO2 emissions are the main driver of the “apparent” warming trend we are in the middle of.
Hillbilly D
February 17th, 2013
6:07 pm
josef
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDY9awmmWtA
indigo
February 17th, 2013
6:08 pm
Bruno
http://deepclimate.org/2009/07/16/friends-of-science-theyre-back/
indigo
February 17th, 2013
6:09 pm
md
Those 97% say it’s us humans causing the warming, NOT a natural cycle.
Hillbilly D
February 17th, 2013
6:11 pm
This is off the discussion but I’d recommend this book to folks interested in the goings on around the ratification of the Constitution. It goes beyond the 5th grade version.
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/ratification-pauline-maier/1102002804?ean=9780684868547
josef
February 17th, 2013
6:14 pm
BRUNO
“…the “apparent” warming trend we are in the middle of.”
Just being EOI here, but how do you determine we’re in “the middle?”
HILLBILLY
FootballTopFan(c)
February 17th, 2013
6:14 pm
Football Top Fan and sports fans metro wide urge careful consideration for a new stadium !!!
Fans are the “HEARTBEAT” of sports.
FootballTopFan supports a new stadium located in downtown Atlanta.
Good luck to Mr. Arthur Blanks and the Atlanta Falcons.
md
February 17th, 2013
6:19 pm
“Those 97% say it’s us humans causing the warming, NOT a natural cycle.”
And the earth is supposedly billions of years old, so how would they “know” that?
Hillbilly D
February 17th, 2013
6:21 pm
how do you determine we’re in “the middle?”
Sort of like a mid-air collision or the center of the universe.
getalife
February 17th, 2013
6:22 pm
The reason your dissent is not working is because of all the lies from the right.
You are marginalized and ignored.
Our President decided to act on climate change because our planet is more important than record big oil profit.
md
February 17th, 2013
6:24 pm
“Our President decided to act on climate change because our planet is more important than record big oil profit.”
He decided to act because he has an agenda…..as all politicians do.
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
6:30 pm
Are you just terrified of global warming? Does the thought of it cause you sleepless nights? Do you think denying it will just make it go away?
Or, do you see it in strictly political terms? Since you don’t like liberals, you won’t accept any science you think is liberal?
Or, does it please you to support Big Business? Do you not realize that, to them, you’re nothing more than a tool?
Sorry, indigo, you’re attempting to project your own motivations for accepting AGW without question onto me. As I’ve tried to explain numerous times, my objections are all made on strictly Scientific grounds. And to bolster that claim, I’ve put up numerous pieces of data which contradict the conclusions of the IPCC and others.
Differently from you–and MarkV–I have the education and intelligence to read the studies directly and draw my own conclusions. You, on the other hand, are limited to parroting things which, at first glance, seem to support your point of view, such as your claim the other night that “According to mathematical physics, something really can come from nothing”. After I challenged you to discuss the underlying Science, you immediately dried up, because you can’t.
http://blogs.ajc.com/kyle-wingfield/2013/02/15/question-on-new-stadium-remains-why-so-soon/?cp=6#comment-185507
So, I’ll tell you what. Like MarkV, you’re welcome to throw your unfounded conclusions and predictable Lib insults around, but be aware that others here know that you don’t have any idea what you’re talking about. As I keep telling Mark, Dumb + A Bad Attitude is no way to go through life.
getalife
February 17th, 2013
6:34 pm
“He decided to act because he has an agenda…..as all politicians do.”
Actually, he listened to what the majority of the American people wanted and acted.
Sane Republicans are joining him for our country.
The majority welcomes all Americans to join and there is no litmus test.
If you can’t beat him join him.
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
6:35 pm
Just being EOI here, but how do you determine we’re in “the middle?”
I am the center of the Universe, so I’m always in the “middle”
md
February 17th, 2013
6:37 pm
“Actually, he listened to what the majority of the American people wanted and acted.”
Which doesn’t mean much if they are clueless…..my kids always outnumbered me too, good thing we didn’t do as they wanted……..
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
6:38 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_riUhKoed0
New thoughts
Will purify my mind
and clean my body
New lives
will fall together like an endless story
All the love of the universe
will be shared by all that’s living
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 17th, 2013
6:38 pm
Obozo’s unconscionable deficits and debt are a more imminent threat to us than global warming. Fixing THAT doesn’t present an opportunity for the progtards to “rule” over us though, so it’s of no interest to them.
indigo
February 17th, 2013
6:46 pm
Bruno
I am not a Phd Physicist and therefore cannot discuss the nuts and bolts as to how something can come from nothing.
I sincerely doubt you can “discuss the underlying Science” of this anymore than I can.
However, I’ll take the word of those who can.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090415110041AAT5nDg
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
6:48 pm
Obozo’s unconscionable deficits and debt are a more imminent threat to us than global warming. Fixing THAT doesn’t present an opportunity for the progtards to “rule” over us though, so it’s of no interest to them.
Another curious thing I’ve noticed about the Big Business hatin’, anti-CEO bonus Libs like indigo, LBB, is how reluctant they are to criticize all of the stimulus money that ended up in the pockets of big Obama contributors. These guys knew that their companies were going under, and lined their pockets on the way out the door on our dime. Can you imagine the outcry if Bush had done something like that??
getalife
February 17th, 2013
6:48 pm
We are talking about adult voters not kids silly.
MarkV
February 17th, 2013
6:49 pm
md @6:19 pm
“And the earth is supposedly billions of years old, so how would they “know” that?”
Spoken like a true scientific ignorant. Why then do you think the earth is billions years old, or do you deny that knowledge as well?
md
February 17th, 2013
6:50 pm
“We are talking about adult voters not kids silly.”
Could have fooled me…..
getalife
February 17th, 2013
6:51 pm
“Can you imagine the outcry if Bush had done something like that??”
He did .
Don’t hate the players, hate the game.
getalife
February 17th, 2013
6:53 pm
“Could have fooled me…..”
That is easily done.
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
6:53 pm
I sincerely doubt you can “discuss the underlying Science” of this anymore than I can.
I already did. I’m waiting for your reply. Not.
http://blogs.ajc.com/kyle-wingfield/2013/02/15/question-on-new-stadium-remains-why-so-soon/?cp=6#comment-185507
However, I’ll take the word of those who can.
Yea, I’m sure that “benitocanadian13″ from Yahoo answers is tops in the field. Not.
Get back to me when you understand the Science well enough to discuss it in your own words. Until then, you’re just a parrot.
indigo
February 17th, 2013
6:54 pm
Bruno
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090415110041AAT5nDg
md
February 17th, 2013
6:58 pm
“That is easily done.”
Time will tell…..time will tell.
But, I do have the knowledge of knowing I too once voted democrat and the powers that be allowed me to see the err in my ways…..so time will tell.
getalife
February 17th, 2013
7:00 pm
md,
The majority does not care about party or partisan politics.
They care about our country and planet.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 17th, 2013
7:05 pm
Actually, he listened to what the majority of the American people wanted and acted.
Yeah, wait until hairy reed brings that bill to the floor and all the red state dummycrats run from it.
We’ll all laugh our a$$es off then.
It’ll be an even bigger butt kicking then your little gun grab was.
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
7:08 pm
indigo @ 6:54–Though your new hero, benitocanadian13, is a little confused about his Physics, his motives for writing the article are clearly stated at the bottom. In his own words: “So in short, if something can indeed come from nothing, than isn’t all your creationist BS invalid now.”
Like you, benitocanadian13 is attempting to create a false dichotomy, that you either accept the current Lib-Science orthodoxy, or you’re a Bible-thumping fundamentalist. Again, indigo, Dumb + A Bad Attitude is no way to go through life.
getalife
February 17th, 2013
7:08 pm
I saw Dr. Carson on hannity.
He is Independent and probably voted for our President but chose the gop vouchers on health care but that debate is over.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 17th, 2013
7:09 pm
You know God wasn’t a dummycrat because He never said “let there be taxes.”
That’s all these libs do is scheme and plot ways of collecting more of your children’s money so they can squander it.
“global warming,” of course, being a prime example of this.
indigo
February 17th, 2013
7:11 pm
Bruno – 6:53
This is the scientist I was refering to.
I doubt you’re even close to his league.
So, argue with him if you dare.
http://www.npr.org/2012/01/13/145175263/lawrence-krauss-on-a-universe-from-nothing
getalife
February 17th, 2013
7:12 pm
“It’ll be an even bigger butt kicking then your little gun grab was.”
That will not even get a vote but extended background checks will pass.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 17th, 2013
7:18 pm
indigo – In my brief time of knowing you, I can tell that you have a little bit of decency about you. Not much, but enough for me to see you as salvageable. I also understand that you are a lib, so the decency could just be an act. But I’m still going to press on with that little glimmer of hope; do you realize you’re taking the same side as the United Nations concerning “climate change?”
ew
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 17th, 2013
7:23 pm
If the libs really wanted to solve the gun violence issue they would start by cracking down on their own voters.
md
February 17th, 2013
7:29 pm
“They care about our country and planet.”
They care about themselves and their wallets…..hence the easy choice to vote for the evil rich to pay for what they themselves would not………..
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
7:30 pm
This is the scientist I was refering to.
I doubt you’re even close to his league.
So, argue with him if you dare.
Not a problem, indigo, because your new hero is saying EXACTLY what I said on my own, except that he draws the same wrong conclusion that your other hero, benitocanadian13, did. From your link:
“You take space, get rid of all the particles, all the radiation, and it actually carries energy, and that notion that in fact empty space – once you allow gravity into the game, what seems impossible is possible. It sounds like it would violate the conservation of energy for you to start with nothing and end up with lots of stuff, but the great thing about gravity is it’s a little trickier.
Gravity allows positive energy and negative energy, and out of nothing you can create positive energy particles, and as long as a gravitational attraction produces enough negative energy, the sum of their energy can be zero. And in fact when we look out at the universe and try and measure its total energy, we come up with zero.”
This is what I said yesterday:
“The bottom line, indigo, is that Energy must always be conserved. When subatomic particles “pop into existence”, to use the phrase the yahoo author used, they can only do so in an environment that has available energy. Though we normally think of a vacuum as containing “nothing”, this isn’t true at the quantum level of existence, because there is ambient energy available. Attempting to extrapolate this localized phenomenon to a larger system, such as an entire Universe, is a logical fallacy.”
The bottom line is that Mr. Krauss is mis-characterizing a vacuum as being “nothing”, when in fact, it’s far from it, as he admits himself. All cosmological theories have to begin with “something”, even if that “something” is ambient energy in the form of gravity.
md
February 17th, 2013
7:32 pm
“He is Independent and probably voted for our President but chose the gop vouchers on health care but that debate is over.”
Might be a stretch considering the guy stated “someone has to stand up to the bullies”. Considering he doesn’t like Obamacare, I’m guessing there is a good chance you are incorrect.
md
February 17th, 2013
7:34 pm
“And there are a group of people who would like to silence everybody and have everybody go along to get along, but that’s not going to be very helpful for us in the long run,” Carson said.”
“I know a lot of doctors. I work with a lot of doctors, and I didn’t find a lot of support for it. I find a lot of people who were really quite disappointed,” he said. “It’s an expansion of the bureaucracy.”
Sorry big guy, but that doesn’t sound like a democrat voter to me…….
md
February 17th, 2013
7:46 pm
” How did you react to President Obama’s re-election?”
BC: I was actually surprised. I actually thought there were more people who perhaps were looking for a different direction and policies that would actually lead to growth, and that that’s how we get the deficit under control, as opposed to just squeezing more and more of what we have. But apparently that was not the case.”
Voted for Obama? I’m guessing no, but there is always a possibility I am wrong.
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
7:48 pm
Picking through some others of Mr. Krauss’s statements:
“In fact, the discovery of this dark energy has told us that the future will be quite different than we thought, and that’s one of the things I talk about in the book. Because of this dark energy, this energy of empty space, which is gravitationally repulsive, it’s causing the expansion of the universe to accelerate, to speed up.”
Dark energy and dark matter have not been discovered at all, which, in fact, is why they are called “dark”. Dark “matter” and “energy” only arise from the fact that large scale predictions of the behavior of our Universe using current models are so wildly wrong that the Physicists were forced to fill in the gaps with some as yet discovered matter and energy. A quick Wiki check states that supposedly 84% of the matter of the Universe is this undetectable “dark” variety, and 73% of all energy supposedly falls into this category. Call me an old cranky skeptic if you like, but any theory which can’t account for more than 3/4 of the Universe isn’t worth a lot in my book.
And:
“Well, you know, you hearken back to the statement of Steve Weinberg, which is really true. I put it a slightly different way. The universe is the way it is whether you like it or not. And you can call it whatever you want, but – and you might – and scientists might want something, and religious people might want something too. And I think the great difference and the great wonder of science is that our faith is shakable, not unshakable, that if we discover the universe isn’t the way we wanted it to be, well, too bad.”
The old false dichotomy once again. Perhaps Mr Krauss would be well-served to remember that the History of Science is littered with discarded theories. And though he’s obviously convinced that we must be converging on the truth, I don’t see it that way. Every shred of evidence points to continued revolutions in understanding, that it’s not simply a matter of filling in a few details.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 17th, 2013
7:55 pm
md
I was unaware that LA had approved a stadium. Article doesn’t give a timetable for construction, sounds like it may depend on the NFL giving them an expansion team. If no team, they may forgo the stadium, but I think the NFL will do something to try and get in that media market. The lack of a suitable stadium was the reason for the 17 year absence, I’m afraid, no NFL guy wanted to go in and build him own stadium as he should have.
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
8:00 pm
And, finally, Mr Krauss reveals his own prejudices at the very end of the article. Although, I’m sure that HE doesn’t consider them to be prejudices because, after all, he’s a (drum roll)…… SCIENTIST!!!!
“Well, it turns out that we’ve been driven both from ideas from cosmology – from a theory called inflation or even string theory – that suggests there may be extra dimensions – to the possibility that our universe isn’t unique, and more over, that the laws of physics in our universe may just be accidental. They may have arisen spontaneously, and they don’t have to be the way they are. But if they were any different, we wouldn’t be here to ask the question. It’s called the entropic idea, and it’s not – it’s – it may be right.
It’s not an idea I find very attractive, but it may be right. And if it is, then it suggests that even the very laws themselves are not fundamental. They arose spontaneously in our universe, and they’re very different in other universes. And in some sense, if you wish, the multiverse plays the role of what you might call a prime mover or a god. It exists outside of our universe. And some people said, well, you know, physicists have just created this multiverse because they want to get rid of God.
Nothing could be further than – to – from the truth. The multiverse, we’ve been driven to it by our discoveries in cosmology and particle physics. We’ve been driven to that possibility, which seems plausible and maybe even likely. And if as a corollary, it allows for our universe to be spontaneously created and even the laws created, well, that’s OK, but we weren’t driven there because of some philosophical prejudice against a creator. That didn’t even enter into the discussion.”
A Multiverse, by its own definition, is undetectable. If it were detectible, then it would simply be part of our own Universe. And in case you forgot, indigo, that is the same criticism that puffed up “Scientists” accuse religious folks of: believing in things which are unprovable.
The bottom line is that we all have to start with some set of assumptions, which naturally lead us to different conclusions in life. Some of these assumptions can be reasonably discussed, others can’t, but they are always there in the background with no exceptions.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 17th, 2013
8:00 pm
MarkV
Your response was the debt was not an eminent threat in that the debt/gdp had been higher. Yeah, during WWII, and if we were in a world war, maybe you could justify where it is. An Overseas contingency operation doesn’t qualify however.
The same response could be given back to you, the earth has been much warmer than it is now. The Vikings enjoyed Greenland vacations, I hear. What caused that warming back then, the paddle strokes from all those rowers?
md
February 17th, 2013
8:01 pm
What percentage is natural?
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/aid/v3/n1/global-warming-natural
Hmmm…….he’s a scientist, he MUST be telling the truth.
Although he backs up what I tend to “believe”, I am skeptical of his conclusions. Why, way to many unknowns…..
md
February 17th, 2013
8:04 pm
“The reason that climate models and the IPCC have not picked up on the strong influence of the sun on temperatures is because present-day climate models dismiss the variability in monthly average global temperature as climate noise, and hence ignore it. They also use the TSI that shows the lowest amount of solar irradiance since 1980.”
It’s called plugging assumed numbers into models to achieve a desired result.
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
8:06 pm
And BTW, indigo, the host of the NPR segment agrees with me as well:
“FLATOW: That’s always great. (Unintelligible). Lawrence Krauss’ new book “A Universe from Nothing: Why There is Something Rather than Nothing.” You’re getting even better as a writer. I mean, my standard is George Gamow, and you come very close to him as a writer in this book. So…”
If you check back, I already referred you to Gamow’s excellent book, “Thirty Years That Shook Physics” yesterday.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 17th, 2013
8:06 pm
Our President decided to act on climate change because our planet is more important than record big oil profit.
No, he is trying to control us and keep everyone pulling in the same direction to power the entitlement wagon, this is just another way. If people get too free of government, he may not have the horse power necessary to pull that wagon up a steep hill, as more and more folks keep jumping in.
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
8:07 pm
md–If you figure out why I waste my breath here on lamers like indigo and MarkV, please let me know. You’d think that they might try thinking for themselves once in a while.
md
February 17th, 2013
8:15 pm
” Article doesn’t give a timetable for construction, sounds like it may depend on the NFL giving them an expansion team. If no team, they may forgo the stadium, but I think the NFL will do something to try and get in that media market.”
Rafe, I’ve follwed the stories on the LA situation for awhile. I do believe they have competing groups trying to build stadiums as well and neither has found an owner willing to commit to their terms as they want to own the stadium and do the dictating. Owners don’t much like being dicatted to, they tend to believe that is their role.
LA has also had their sights set on any current franchise that might want to play the game, with Jacksonville being the most mentioned team. Since it is a business, I could see some team decide the terms are more favorable to head to LA…….after all they moved to Indy, AZ, and Stl…..I would think the #2 market would be a prize compared to those places.
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
8:15 pm
I’m all for theorizing, but you would think that more of these cats would simply admit the obvious “We don’t really know definitively, but here’s our latest guess”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBsdHoTdOmc
getalife
February 17th, 2013
8:15 pm
You’d think cons would get something right one day but they learn what to think from uncredible rw media so that day is far away.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 17th, 2013
8:16 pm
Bruno
If they start questioning GW, then they might question Benghazi, fast/furious, socialistic inclination, individual responsibility, etc and wind up having to give up the easy way of just leaving things to the experts in government, science, physics, etc.
Funny they never agree with military experts, wonder why? Guess the military experts don’t get together and come to a military consensus. You never hear that 97% of military experts predict that….
Hillbilly D
February 17th, 2013
8:18 pm
uncredible rw media
Other than that they sit at opposite sides of the fence, what’s the difference between MSNBC, et al and Fox News, et al? They’re all just entertainment masquerading as news.
md
February 17th, 2013
8:18 pm
“md–If you figure out why I waste my breath here on lamers like indigo and MarkV, please let me know. You’d think that they might try thinking for themselves once in a while.”
Maybe because there is always hope they may see the light?
indigo
February 17th, 2013
8:23 pm
Bruno
In order to completely argue “something from nothing” in Quantum Mechanics, you must go beyone mere words. It would take pages of very complex mathmematical physics equations. Naturally, this requires a strong background in Algebra, Geometry, Trigonometry and Calculus.
I don’t begin to have this background and I strongly doubt you do either.
But, I’m willing to take the word of a top scientist like Dr. Krauss.
Somewhere along the line, you’ve come to the conclusion that we should only post things here that we personally have certain knowledge of and can prove. If top scientists say something and we repeat it here, you summarily dismiss it if we can’t prove it ourselves.
I don’t really understand why you have such an attitude.
I freely admit I’m no mathematican.
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
8:23 pm
Cheap Day Return/Wond’ring Aloud:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpkRdoXxs20
getalife
February 17th, 2013
8:25 pm
The consensus among scientists is what our President will act upon.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 17th, 2013
8:27 pm
Maybe because there is always hope they may see the light?
Then again, there is always hope Obama will advocate policies to improve the economy, also. Just about the same amount of hope as involved above.
Dusty
February 17th, 2013
8:28 pm
Josef
Just got back..
I hope you are still here. I was wondering if you had read “Dear EllenBee”, a Civil War scrapbook of two union spies. by M. E. Lyons and M. M. Branch. I thought about your book on Civil War times involving a woman. Anyway, this book was listed in the children’s division but I chose it because of its title. Have you read it?. Did you like it?
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
8:29 pm
Naturally, this requires a strong background in Algebra, Geometry, Trigonometry and Calculus. I don’t begin to have this background and I strongly doubt you do either.
Well, you’re wrong. I do have the background.
But, I’m willing to take the word of a top scientist like Dr. Krauss.
Somewhere along the line, you’ve come to the conclusion that we should only post things here that we personally have certain knowledge of and can prove. If top scientists say something and we repeat it here, you summarily dismiss it if we can’t prove it ourselves.
I’ve never challenged you to discuss the nuances of any of the equations, but I would think that you have enough reading comprehension skills to understand why Mr. Krauss’s claim of “Something from nothing” is contradicted by his own words. And, as stated above, merely repeating the words of others with absolutely no analysis at all reduces you to the role of a parrot. I can only hope that you would wish better for yourself.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 17th, 2013
8:32 pm
getalife
The consensus among scientists is what our President will act upon.
So, he believes in experts that believe the same way he does! The experts who disagree with his imminence are just wrong, right?
If not, why did he ignore the consensus of military experts on keeping troops in Iraq or delay the surge in Afghanistan?
Dusty
February 17th, 2013
8:32 pm
Josef
I have read it . Just wanted your opiniion.
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
8:32 pm
Some wicked Tull:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNRmavbTTQk
md
February 17th, 2013
8:32 pm
“You’d think cons would get something right one day but they learn what to think from uncredible rw media so that day is far away.”
Not sure how you do it, but when I listen to the news, the first thing I do is google it and follow the trail. One should be asking themselves constantly if they are correct in their own beliefs, and doing the research accordingly.
I like to try to prove myself wrong on a subject by digging for research and either strengthening or weakening my own stance. If I read enough credible information on a subject that logically tells me I’m wrong, I have no problem telling myself that.
As an example, I was raised in a religious household, rebelled strongly against to the point I was one of these hate religion at all cost kind of guys and have come around to understand that I just don’t know, and right now have no way of knowing.
Life is a journey, which also explains why I was once a card carrying democrat, switched to a card carrying republican and am now a right leaning independent.
I have no problem admitting I used to be one of those with no morals voting for the other guy to do it based on the fact that I didn’t have anything and felt they could afford it just because……..
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 17th, 2013
8:33 pm
“md–If you figure out why I waste my breath here on lamers like indigo and MarkV, please let me know. You’d think that they might try thinking for themselves once in a while.”
Bruno – It looks like you do have some Con in you. We actually do try to help the weak and the lame instead of just making a bunch of empty promises to them and then using the money we extort from others to fund our mindless pet projects and grow our power. There is a special place in Heaven for those who have forsaken liberalism in favor of decency, although you may want to stop with the over analyzing of this Gift.
getalife
February 17th, 2013
8:34 pm
“Then again, there is always hope Obama will advocate policies to improve the economy, also”
He did while your party is focused on cuts to kill jobs job killer.
getalife
February 17th, 2013
8:35 pm
“There is a special place in Heaven”
Not for you.
getalife
February 17th, 2013
8:36 pm
md,
rw media is not credible. Period.
Hillbilly D
February 17th, 2013
8:36 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_DV54ddNHE
getalife
February 17th, 2013
8:38 pm
“why did he ignore the consensus of military experts on keeping troops in Iraq or delay the surge in Afghanistan?”
Because we lost in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan stupid.
Hillbilly D
February 17th, 2013
8:40 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU5LoCLGMdQ
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
8:40 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YymGJKhGgY
md
February 17th, 2013
8:40 pm
“rw media is not credible. Period.”
And there in lies the problem…..if one is unwilling to do the necessary research to verify whether something is true then one will forever be in the dark.
But from what you post on a regular basis I’m guessing you are comfortable being in the dark….
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 17th, 2013
8:43 pm
I like to try to prove myself wrong on a subject by digging for research and either strengthening or weakening my own stance.
I tend to agree. Drudge used to be a pretty reliable source of information and still is the go to, but ever since the death of Breitbart, they slant a bit too far to the unbelievable.They try to make hay where there is none.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 17th, 2013
8:43 pm
The consensus among economists is that we have a spending problem.
Act on THAT, Obozo.
getalife
February 17th, 2013
8:44 pm
md,
When was the last time you turned out to be right?
I will put up my record up to any con.
getalife
February 17th, 2013
8:46 pm
BTW, you should research who funds your military experts and scientists to find out it is defense companies and big oil.
That ruins credibility in the real world.
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
8:47 pm
Back at your 8:40:
http://vega.org.uk/video/subseries/8
getalife
February 17th, 2013
8:47 pm
“Act on THAT, Obozo.”
The 4 trillion bargain is on the table.
Act gop.
getalife
February 17th, 2013
8:51 pm
“They try to make hay where there is none.”
Like the Mendedez smear.
bretbart was never credible.
getalife
February 17th, 2013
8:55 pm
You are getting closer to joining the real world but not there yet.
I switched from Independent to Democrat because they stopped your party from robbing SS and Medicare.
I am not a self defeatist like you.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 17th, 2013
8:56 pm
Menendez is a slam dunk. The FBI is a tool of the dummycrats and even they couldn’t overlook his “indiscretions.” The dummycrats are bust scheming how to replace him with another pinko but they don’t trust christie. That’s the only reason he ain’t gone by now.
getalife
February 17th, 2013
8:58 pm
Prostitutes are not credible silly.
You bought their lie didn’t you.
getalife
February 17th, 2013
9:00 pm
I thought Kyle banned you.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 17th, 2013
9:02 pm
hagel will never be confirmed, bandaid kerry will soon be going the way of Bernie Madoff, menedez is going to have enough time on his hands to do the wild thing with as many underage Dominican chicks as he wants, at least until the bribe money runs out and no one will ever be appointed to serve on your beloved death panels.
Deal with it.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 17th, 2013
9:04 pm
I thought Kyle banned you.
It’s funny, but another lib blogger self banned himself and now the blog is open around the clock.
I guess I wasn’t the problem.
getalife
February 17th, 2013
9:05 pm
hagel will be confirmed and the rest of your rant shows you are in desperate need of mental health care.
They will take your guns if you are mental.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 17th, 2013
9:05 pm
Plus, we are going to start referring to obozo, the golfing vacation president, as a lame duck.
Deal with it.
America is back.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 17th, 2013
9:07 pm
All of my guns passed the FBI background check. How many obozo voters can say that?
getalife
February 17th, 2013
9:08 pm
America is back thanks to President Obama.
Lets recap, President Obama 2.
cons zero.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 17th, 2013
9:11 pm
I don’t buy my guns like a lib does, I go to other decent, morally upstanding Americans and pay them a fair price. And then I submit to the laws of the land. How many obozo voters can say that?
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 17th, 2013
9:12 pm
The 4 trillion bargain is on the table.
———-
Raising taxes on the productive does not reduce spending.
Try again.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 17th, 2013
9:14 pm
I go to other decent, morally upstanding Americans and pay them a fair price. And then I submit to the laws of the land.
———-
That’s not exactly the Chicago Way, is it?
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 17th, 2013
9:15 pm
The Republicans are back. Boehner wiped away the tears and passed the baton to hairy reed. He learned his lesson well, you cannot trust a dummycrat whatsoever, although he could have saved himself two years of embarrassment had he just listened to me. Now it’s up to you libs to present your own filthy ideas with your name all over them.
Game on.
getalife
February 17th, 2013
9:16 pm
The turtle was the deal maker.
The crybaby ran home to mommy.
md
February 17th, 2013
9:17 pm
“I switched from Independent to Democrat because they stopped your party from robbing SS and Medicare.”
That statement right there indicates that you are a follower vs a leader. A leader will go out and do the research that will clearly tell you that both programs are in trouble.
Doing nothing get will not save it and will eventually lead to many more suffering because of it. You seem to delude yourself into looking at the situation through the short term pair of glasses vs the long term pair……..
Short term, Hitler was great for Germany……long term???
getalife
February 17th, 2013
9:19 pm
Germany made the EU force austerity and they are in a triple dip recession.
That is what you cons want too.
bluecoat
February 17th, 2013
9:21 pm
All my guns passed the FBI background test.Did not think slingshots were subject to test,but owners?????????
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 17th, 2013
9:27 pm
Environmental groups gathered on the National Mall in Washington, D.C. Sunday and marched on the White House for a climate change rally largely aimed at pressuring President Obama to reject the Keystone XL oil sands pipeline.
DC WIND CHILL 16°F…
morons
md
February 17th, 2013
9:28 pm
“I switched from Independent to Democrat because they stopped your party from robbing SS and Medicare.”
Oh, i “get” it now…..it was all about you…….
Now it makes sense.
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
9:32 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vvf5rVzmHuc
Dusty
February 17th, 2013
9:32 pm
Well, looks lilke I got here a little late tonight. But…
Thanks, getalife, for reaching Josef.. He may answer later.
I think the Climate discussion was full of good points and sound.info. Both sides had definite ideas. a bit trying at times but nobody fell asleep over the “battle”.
MARKV, I am glad you consider the future of my children and all others in a supposition. I don’t let my imagination run too far in certain fields such as climate but am only too glad to have scientists continue to study everything in our universe.
But I am in no way in an emergency state as I might be if a meteoritie were heading for us at 18,000mph. Even then, at that speed, just cross your fingers is about the extent of preparation.
RAFE, You understand my worry about the deficit very well. It isn’t a run-ro-the-bunker kind of emergency but it certainly has untold ;problems for the future. We can’t stop meteorites but we can slow spending. I’m for that!
BRUNO, I’m not getting in a debate with you. What an IQ! What book larnin’!! BUT do you know how to COOK???
HILLBILLY, quit playing all that banjo pickin’ and stuff. It’s worse than opera. I’m a city slicker!!
PS: Wonder if @@ has moved to the country. Haven’t heard from her lately..
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 17th, 2013
9:41 pm
Would you be surprised to hear that the human race is slowly becoming dumber, and dumber? Despite our advancements over the last tens or even hundreds of years, some ‘experts’ believe that humans are losing cognitive capabilities and becoming more emotionally unstable.
Yes, dummycrat ideas like “global warming” and other ecotrash are dumbing down the populace. Aristotle did not sit around all day thinking about who would pay for his condoms. Socrates did not dwell on killing his offspring. Einstein didn’t spend all his efforts hating on Big Business.
Let the dummycrats herd the simpletons. Rejuvenate your cognitive thinking abilities and join the Republican party.
Hillbilly D
February 17th, 2013
9:50 pm
Dusty
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJOIqmlI65Y
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
9:54 pm
BRUNO, I’m not getting in a debate with you. What an IQ! What book larnin’!! BUT do you know how to COOK???
Can’t cook much, but I will take you out to dinner. Is Burger King ok??
Hillbilly D
February 17th, 2013
9:59 pm
Bruno
Hold the pickle, hold the lettuce ………
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
10:01 pm
Back at ya, HD:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uOy3WdT3mY
Hillbilly D
February 17th, 2013
10:07 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6x_hEfiGgE
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
10:11 pm
Get your handkerchiefs ready:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7knUFWY2P44
Dusty
February 17th, 2013
10:19 pm
HILLBILLY
THANKS a lot! Musta been a dozen of those thangs! Well, anyway, Earl DID have most of his teeth!!!
BRUNO
Us gourmets is all alike! BurgerKing and a Whooper ! Vunderva!!
Unfortunately , my schedule is full of board meetings! Yes! But here’s to the future and a golden BK crown! Oh oh !! Tres beau!
moonbat betty
February 17th, 2013
10:27 pm
I fawt the law and the law won!
I fawt the law, and the law won.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6k8es2BNloE
moonbat betty
February 17th, 2013
10:28 pm
Hi Dusty!
Dusty
February 17th, 2013
10:34 pm
Hi moonbat….sounds like you R A law abidin’ citizen.
When did that happen????
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
10:35 pm
Cool Black Keys, betty.
I doubt if Matz will check in this late, but this one goes out to her:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey3LfUg4V2U
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
10:39 pm
I guess, all in all, I’ve lived a fairly charmed life.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC1NR7AL_9s
bluecoat
February 17th, 2013
10:40 pm
I don’t believe thr females fit into the dumber part.Women are fast advancing.Men are falling behind fast.
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
10:44 pm
Some Goo-Goo Dolls:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kGX6707GtM
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
10:47 pm
It’s 3 AM somewhere:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-Naa1HXeDQ
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
10:52 pm
For…….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuHVZ_-b868
bluecoat
February 17th, 2013
10:56 pm
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,314681,00.html chimps smarter than humans short term memory.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 17th, 2013
10:57 pm
Sen. McCain claims ‘massive cover-up’ on Benghazi
While discussing the contentious confirmation hearings for defense secretary nominee Chuck Hagel, things got a bit heated on Sunday’s “Meet The Press” when Sen. John McCain referred to the lack of information from the White House surrounding the Sept. 11, 2012 attacks in Benghazi as a “massive cover-up.”
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/mccain-massive-cover-benghazi-193426972–politics.html
——————–
Progtards loved him when he was criticizing “Zero Dark Thirty”, but not so much now.
Hillbilly D
February 17th, 2013
10:58 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5GjzA3xcaY
MarkV
February 17th, 2013
11:04 pm
Rafe @8:00 pm
Oh come on, Rafe,
Your “answers” do not even qualify as arguments. As for the debt/GDP ratio, your answer could be called “deliberate misunderstanding,” if I wanted to be charitable. My point was not how those values of the ratio happened, but that when it happened in the past, the country still survived. Regarding the “earth was much warmer before,” that is an ignorant argument I have no time for now. If you do not realize it yourself, there is probably no hope for you, but if you want, I can address it later.
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
11:09 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJM7TdshUbw
MarkV
February 17th, 2013
11:14 pm
Dusty @ 9:32 pm
Dusty,
Sadly, you did not answer my question. It was not a difficult question, and did not require any scientific knowledge. Unless, of course, you answer is in your second paragraph, that is, that you would choose to cross your fingers rather than support a way to avoid the disaster.
Old Timer
February 18th, 2013
12:07 am
Let the Falcon’s Move unless Blank and the NFL wants to pay for it–that is what we have TV’s for.
Techfan
February 18th, 2013
4:26 am
Are they going to try to build the new stadium out of “space foam” or something? If not, why can’t all of the comments not related to the topic be tossed into some other chat forum? Please!!!!!
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 18th, 2013
9:03 am
MarkV
No need to spill the koolaid/expand on your thoughts, I’ve already read the Dem/Obama policy/positions, so I know your positions. I have just looked at the evidence and arrived at a different opinion.
MarkV
February 18th, 2013
10:18 am
Rafe @ 9:03 am
Rafe,
Previously (@8:00 pm) you tried to make silly arguments, but at least you tried that. Now you have just resorted to stupidity, in other words, you showed yourself in the true light. Congratulations.