Question on new stadium remains: Why so soon?
If you haven’t yet read Jeff Schultz’s column today about whether it would be “the worst thing in the world if the Falcons moved to the suburbs,” I recommend it. Spoiler alert: Schultz thinks it would not be the worst thing in the world if that were to happen.
Although I think downtown is ultimately far preferable to the suburbs for the Falcons’ home games, Schultz makes a number of good arguments. But this is the part to which I want to draw your attention (with emphasis added):
The [San Francisco] 49ers couldn’t get a downtown stadium deal done, so they’re moving to Santa Clara, 30 to 45 minutes away. … By the way, Candlestick Park is 53 years old.
The [New York] Giants left the old Meadowlands stadium, which was 34 years old. The [Miami] Dolphins left the Orange Bowl, which was built in 1939. The [Dallas] Cowboys and [New England] Patriots left stadiums that were opened in 1971. The [Washington] Redskins left RFK Stadium, built in 1961.
The Georgia Dome opened in 1992.
For me, much of what’s disquieting about the drive to ditch the Dome is the timing. In 2017, by which time the Falcons insist they’ll be in a new stadium, the Dome will be a mere 25 years old.
The stadium the 49ers are leaving is twice as old (53) as the Georgia Dome will be in 2017. The same goes for the Dolphins’ old stadium (48) when their new stadium opened in 1987.
The stadium the Giants and New York Jets replaced was about as old (34) as most Georgians probably believed the Dome would be when it was replaced. Ditto for the old stadiums of the Cowboys (38), Patriots (29) and Redskins (36).
I think it’s fair to assume most Atlanta residents recognize that the Dome will have to be replaced at some point in time. I think it’s also fair to assume most of us wonder why that point in time is coming so soon after the Dome was built.
Of course, the Dome will need money for repairs if it stays open. As the AJC has reported, professional estimates of those costs run from $115 million by 2020 (when the Dome would hit 28 years of age) to $401 million by approximately 2035 (when it would be 43 years old).
So, it seems questionable to most people outside the Falcons organization that the Dome has to be replaced so soon. If we having this discussion five to 10 years from now, it would be going a lot differently.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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545 comments Add your comment
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
5:48 pm
I’m at a loss to understand why you and others totally reject what 97% of these scientists believe.
I well explained that in my 5:23. Using any reasonable definition of “Science”, climatology isn’t it. Now, you’re more than welcome to accept the conclusions of the IPCC or whoever else you think speaks authoritatively, but that doesn’t make it the truth. Though you and MarkV are more than happy to put your Lib blinders on, significant room for doubt still exists about AGW. Instead of making blind appeals to authority, why don’t you take a few minutes and educate yourself as to WHY significant doubt exists.
http://www.friendsofscience.org/assets/documents/FOS%20Essay/Climate_Change_Science.html
md
February 17th, 2013
5:48 pm
“I think I’ll take The National Geographic’s views over theirs.”
You do realize that the guy running the NGS is a democrat….right?
md
February 17th, 2013
5:50 pm
“LA is too Urbane for blue collar football. They never supported the Rams and I doubt with the entitlement society they run, they could afford to build a Taj Mahal stadium that would please one of these fickle NFL owners.”
Rafe, fyi:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/28/us-la-footballstadium-idUSBRE88R1ET20120928
MarkV
February 17th, 2013
5:52 pm
Rafe @ 5:42 pm
“MarkV: You are so worried about something that “might” happen that would adversely affect Dusty’s children, yet you mock Dusty for being so concerned about the national debt, which will severely affect her children. You have misplaced priorities, IMO.”
Rafe,
Is the above supposed to be an argument in the global warming debate, or just as pretext for attacking me? And what exactly are my “misplaced priorities?”
As for the essence of your claim, the comparison is plain silly. On one side there is opinion of a vast majority of climatologists of the devastation that global warming might cause to the earth, and which might not be possible to avert if we wait too long. On the other side is the national debt that is disturbing but in no way catastrophic. Let me remind you that this country has a national debt/GDP ratio highest than we have now, and survived very well.
Hillbilly D
February 17th, 2013
5:54 pm
I read the National Geographic, cover to cover, every month. A few years back they had a big article on the discovery of a new dinosaur, complete with a nice artist’s rendering of what the dinosaur looked like. A closer reading revealed that what they actually found was a piece of a leg bone. The rest was conjecture.
Another time, they had a big article on the Iceman found frozen in the Alps. After a forensic examination of the mummy, or whatever you want to call the guy, they had a detailed story about his last two days of life. Again, a lot of that was conjecture.
That’s two examples off the top of my head.
So I read the National Geographic, enjoy it, and learn from it, but still, it’s like anything else, some of it is to be taken with a grain of salt.
MarkV
February 17th, 2013
5:55 pm
“has a national debt/GDP ratio highest” should have been “had a
national debt/GDP ratio higher” Sorry.
MarkV
February 17th, 2013
5:58 pm
Rafe @ 5:42 pm
Moreover, Rafe, I am not “ so worried about something that “might” happen that would adversely affect Dusty’s children.” I only suggest that perhaps Dusty should be.
md
February 17th, 2013
5:59 pm
“In my opinion, industries locate wherever is best for them to locate. They pretty well know where they are going before they ever let it be known they are moving.”
And I agree with that statement to a degree. Take the car companies, they knew one certainty, they were NOT going to a non-right to work state. After that, it came down to quite a few factors as to which RTW state they wanted and one of the biggies is always cost.
It’s still business, and they have a fiduciary duty to the shareholder to get that cost down and those profits up. As for companies already here, they too are here for a reason and must also calculate the cost of moving vs the freebies they may get elsewhere. And a big part of that is moving one’s employee base.
So we’ll just have to disagree on that part of doing business…..
indigo
February 17th, 2013
6:01 pm
Bruno
It makes no sense to just airly dismiss the findings of 97% of these scientists.
So, I wonder.
Are you just terrified of global warming? Does the thought of it cause you sleepless nights? Do you think denying it will just make it go away?
Or, do you see it in strictly political terms? Since you don’t like liberals, you won’t accept any science you think is liberal?
Or, does it please you to support Big Business? Do you not realize that, to them, you’re nothing more than a tool?
md
February 17th, 2013
6:02 pm
“Money over our planet is ignorant and greedy..”
Being kind to the planet makes sense, but so does being kind to the masses in their energy costs as a starving group of people won’t much care about the planet if they are hungry.
josef
February 17th, 2013
6:02 pm
HILLBILLY
Who do you think you’re fooling? We know you just look at the pictures.
md
February 17th, 2013
6:04 pm
And remember, when a company is moving away from a non rtw state, they are already realizing a cost savings just from moving while the companies already in that locale don’t necessarily have that savings.
indigo
February 17th, 2013
6:04 pm
Bruno – 5:48
How is it you don’t realize that basing scientific beliefs on this dubious source only makes you look foolish.
md
February 17th, 2013
6:06 pm
“It makes no sense to just airly dismiss the findings of 97% of these scientists.”
Yet not a single one of the 97% can give you a number as to what percentage of the warming is caused by a natural cycle……that should be your warning.
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
6:06 pm
MarkV: Perhaps it should. I am not saying that you should delve into the pseudo-scientific debate on this blog, but you have children, and they have or may have children, don’t they? Should not you take a stand?
MarkV–The alternative to taking some kind of drastic action now based upon doomsday scenarios which have already been proven false is not to do nothing, as you seem to imply. A reasonable course of action, IMO, is to continue reducing pollutants in the atmosphere (not just CO2, which isn’t really a pollutant), while continuing to invest in atmospheric research. Like military spending, the US already spends more than the rest of the world combined, in case you didn’t know.
My biggest suggestion, however, is for the Science to move forward in a non-political way. The first job of a real scientist is to prove himself wrong – that is to list the numerous way that the results my be in error and how the conclusions are limited. Right now, the opposite is occurring. Dissenting voices are being shouted down and data is being bent or ignored outright if it doesn’t support the predetermined conclusion that man-made CO2 emissions are the main driver of the “apparent” warming trend we are in the middle of.
Hillbilly D
February 17th, 2013
6:07 pm
josef
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDY9awmmWtA
indigo
February 17th, 2013
6:08 pm
Bruno
http://deepclimate.org/2009/07/16/friends-of-science-theyre-back/
indigo
February 17th, 2013
6:09 pm
md
Those 97% say it’s us humans causing the warming, NOT a natural cycle.
Hillbilly D
February 17th, 2013
6:11 pm
This is off the discussion but I’d recommend this book to folks interested in the goings on around the ratification of the Constitution. It goes beyond the 5th grade version.
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/ratification-pauline-maier/1102002804?ean=9780684868547
josef
February 17th, 2013
6:14 pm
BRUNO
“…the “apparent” warming trend we are in the middle of.”
Just being EOI here, but how do you determine we’re in “the middle?”
HILLBILLY
FootballTopFan(c)
February 17th, 2013
6:14 pm
Football Top Fan and sports fans metro wide urge careful consideration for a new stadium !!!
Fans are the “HEARTBEAT” of sports.
FootballTopFan supports a new stadium located in downtown Atlanta.
Good luck to Mr. Arthur Blanks and the Atlanta Falcons.
md
February 17th, 2013
6:19 pm
“Those 97% say it’s us humans causing the warming, NOT a natural cycle.”
And the earth is supposedly billions of years old, so how would they “know” that?
Hillbilly D
February 17th, 2013
6:21 pm
how do you determine we’re in “the middle?”
Sort of like a mid-air collision or the center of the universe.
getalife
February 17th, 2013
6:22 pm
The reason your dissent is not working is because of all the lies from the right.
You are marginalized and ignored.
Our President decided to act on climate change because our planet is more important than record big oil profit.
md
February 17th, 2013
6:24 pm
“Our President decided to act on climate change because our planet is more important than record big oil profit.”
He decided to act because he has an agenda…..as all politicians do.
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
6:30 pm
Are you just terrified of global warming? Does the thought of it cause you sleepless nights? Do you think denying it will just make it go away?
Or, do you see it in strictly political terms? Since you don’t like liberals, you won’t accept any science you think is liberal?
Or, does it please you to support Big Business? Do you not realize that, to them, you’re nothing more than a tool?
Sorry, indigo, you’re attempting to project your own motivations for accepting AGW without question onto me. As I’ve tried to explain numerous times, my objections are all made on strictly Scientific grounds. And to bolster that claim, I’ve put up numerous pieces of data which contradict the conclusions of the IPCC and others.
Differently from you–and MarkV–I have the education and intelligence to read the studies directly and draw my own conclusions. You, on the other hand, are limited to parroting things which, at first glance, seem to support your point of view, such as your claim the other night that “According to mathematical physics, something really can come from nothing”. After I challenged you to discuss the underlying Science, you immediately dried up, because you can’t.
http://blogs.ajc.com/kyle-wingfield/2013/02/15/question-on-new-stadium-remains-why-so-soon/?cp=6#comment-185507
So, I’ll tell you what. Like MarkV, you’re welcome to throw your unfounded conclusions and predictable Lib insults around, but be aware that others here know that you don’t have any idea what you’re talking about. As I keep telling Mark, Dumb + A Bad Attitude is no way to go through life.
getalife
February 17th, 2013
6:34 pm
“He decided to act because he has an agenda…..as all politicians do.”
Actually, he listened to what the majority of the American people wanted and acted.
Sane Republicans are joining him for our country.
The majority welcomes all Americans to join and there is no litmus test.
If you can’t beat him join him.
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
6:35 pm
Just being EOI here, but how do you determine we’re in “the middle?”
I am the center of the Universe, so I’m always in the “middle”
md
February 17th, 2013
6:37 pm
“Actually, he listened to what the majority of the American people wanted and acted.”
Which doesn’t mean much if they are clueless…..my kids always outnumbered me too, good thing we didn’t do as they wanted……..
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
6:38 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_riUhKoed0
New thoughts
Will purify my mind
and clean my body
New lives
will fall together like an endless story
All the love of the universe
will be shared by all that’s living
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 17th, 2013
6:38 pm
Obozo’s unconscionable deficits and debt are a more imminent threat to us than global warming. Fixing THAT doesn’t present an opportunity for the progtards to “rule” over us though, so it’s of no interest to them.
indigo
February 17th, 2013
6:46 pm
Bruno
I am not a Phd Physicist and therefore cannot discuss the nuts and bolts as to how something can come from nothing.
I sincerely doubt you can “discuss the underlying Science” of this anymore than I can.
However, I’ll take the word of those who can.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090415110041AAT5nDg
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
6:48 pm
Obozo’s unconscionable deficits and debt are a more imminent threat to us than global warming. Fixing THAT doesn’t present an opportunity for the progtards to “rule” over us though, so it’s of no interest to them.
Another curious thing I’ve noticed about the Big Business hatin’, anti-CEO bonus Libs like indigo, LBB, is how reluctant they are to criticize all of the stimulus money that ended up in the pockets of big Obama contributors. These guys knew that their companies were going under, and lined their pockets on the way out the door on our dime. Can you imagine the outcry if Bush had done something like that??
getalife
February 17th, 2013
6:48 pm
We are talking about adult voters not kids silly.
MarkV
February 17th, 2013
6:49 pm
md @6:19 pm
“And the earth is supposedly billions of years old, so how would they “know” that?”
Spoken like a true scientific ignorant. Why then do you think the earth is billions years old, or do you deny that knowledge as well?
md
February 17th, 2013
6:50 pm
“We are talking about adult voters not kids silly.”
Could have fooled me…..
getalife
February 17th, 2013
6:51 pm
“Can you imagine the outcry if Bush had done something like that??”
He did .
Don’t hate the players, hate the game.
getalife
February 17th, 2013
6:53 pm
“Could have fooled me…..”
That is easily done.
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
6:53 pm
I sincerely doubt you can “discuss the underlying Science” of this anymore than I can.
I already did. I’m waiting for your reply. Not.
http://blogs.ajc.com/kyle-wingfield/2013/02/15/question-on-new-stadium-remains-why-so-soon/?cp=6#comment-185507
However, I’ll take the word of those who can.
Yea, I’m sure that “benitocanadian13″ from Yahoo answers is tops in the field. Not.
Get back to me when you understand the Science well enough to discuss it in your own words. Until then, you’re just a parrot.
indigo
February 17th, 2013
6:54 pm
Bruno
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090415110041AAT5nDg
md
February 17th, 2013
6:58 pm
“That is easily done.”
Time will tell…..time will tell.
But, I do have the knowledge of knowing I too once voted democrat and the powers that be allowed me to see the err in my ways…..so time will tell.
getalife
February 17th, 2013
7:00 pm
md,
The majority does not care about party or partisan politics.
They care about our country and planet.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 17th, 2013
7:05 pm
Actually, he listened to what the majority of the American people wanted and acted.
Yeah, wait until hairy reed brings that bill to the floor and all the red state dummycrats run from it.
We’ll all laugh our a$$es off then.
It’ll be an even bigger butt kicking then your little gun grab was.
Bruno
February 17th, 2013
7:08 pm
indigo @ 6:54–Though your new hero, benitocanadian13, is a little confused about his Physics, his motives for writing the article are clearly stated at the bottom. In his own words: “So in short, if something can indeed come from nothing, than isn’t all your creationist BS invalid now.”
Like you, benitocanadian13 is attempting to create a false dichotomy, that you either accept the current Lib-Science orthodoxy, or you’re a Bible-thumping fundamentalist. Again, indigo, Dumb + A Bad Attitude is no way to go through life.
getalife
February 17th, 2013
7:08 pm
I saw Dr. Carson on hannity.
He is Independent and probably voted for our President but chose the gop vouchers on health care but that debate is over.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 17th, 2013
7:09 pm
You know God wasn’t a dummycrat because He never said “let there be taxes.”
That’s all these libs do is scheme and plot ways of collecting more of your children’s money so they can squander it.
“global warming,” of course, being a prime example of this.
indigo
February 17th, 2013
7:11 pm
Bruno – 6:53
This is the scientist I was refering to.
I doubt you’re even close to his league.
So, argue with him if you dare.
http://www.npr.org/2012/01/13/145175263/lawrence-krauss-on-a-universe-from-nothing
getalife
February 17th, 2013
7:12 pm
“It’ll be an even bigger butt kicking then your little gun grab was.”
That will not even get a vote but extended background checks will pass.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 17th, 2013
7:18 pm
indigo – In my brief time of knowing you, I can tell that you have a little bit of decency about you. Not much, but enough for me to see you as salvageable. I also understand that you are a lib, so the decency could just be an act. But I’m still going to press on with that little glimmer of hope; do you realize you’re taking the same side as the United Nations concerning “climate change?”
ew
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 17th, 2013
7:23 pm
If the libs really wanted to solve the gun violence issue they would start by cracking down on their own voters.