Question on new stadium remains: Why so soon?
If you haven’t yet read Jeff Schultz’s column today about whether it would be “the worst thing in the world if the Falcons moved to the suburbs,” I recommend it. Spoiler alert: Schultz thinks it would not be the worst thing in the world if that were to happen.
Although I think downtown is ultimately far preferable to the suburbs for the Falcons’ home games, Schultz makes a number of good arguments. But this is the part to which I want to draw your attention (with emphasis added):
The [San Francisco] 49ers couldn’t get a downtown stadium deal done, so they’re moving to Santa Clara, 30 to 45 minutes away. … By the way, Candlestick Park is 53 years old.
The [New York] Giants left the old Meadowlands stadium, which was 34 years old. The [Miami] Dolphins left the Orange Bowl, which was built in 1939. The [Dallas] Cowboys and [New England] Patriots left stadiums that were opened in 1971. The [Washington] Redskins left RFK Stadium, built in 1961.
The Georgia Dome opened in 1992.
For me, much of what’s disquieting about the drive to ditch the Dome is the timing. In 2017, by which time the Falcons insist they’ll be in a new stadium, the Dome will be a mere 25 years old.
The stadium the 49ers are leaving is twice as old (53) as the Georgia Dome will be in 2017. The same goes for the Dolphins’ old stadium (48) when their new stadium opened in 1987.
The stadium the Giants and New York Jets replaced was about as old (34) as most Georgians probably believed the Dome would be when it was replaced. Ditto for the old stadiums of the Cowboys (38), Patriots (29) and Redskins (36).
I think it’s fair to assume most Atlanta residents recognize that the Dome will have to be replaced at some point in time. I think it’s also fair to assume most of us wonder why that point in time is coming so soon after the Dome was built.
Of course, the Dome will need money for repairs if it stays open. As the AJC has reported, professional estimates of those costs run from $115 million by 2020 (when the Dome would hit 28 years of age) to $401 million by approximately 2035 (when it would be 43 years old).
So, it seems questionable to most people outside the Falcons organization that the Dome has to be replaced so soon. If we having this discussion five to 10 years from now, it would be going a lot differently.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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545 comments Add your comment
JamVet
February 15th, 2013
10:47 pm
Clapton is the God!
There can be no doubt, For god’s sake he played the Hammer of God.
By way of timeliness…
The Hammer of God is a science fiction novel by Arthur C. Clarke originally published in 1993. It deals with an asteroid named Kali headed toward Earth. Captain Robert Singh of the spacecraft Goliath is sent to deflect it. Kali is discovered by Dr. Angus Miller, an amateur astronomer on the planet Mars.
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
10:54 pm
I wonder if this is how waitresses see diners.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmzMRWsY8Zo
moonbat betty
February 15th, 2013
10:56 pm
Deee Liiiight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwjoS-2zm9E
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
10:57 pm
Love this Leon Russell song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np5SnrExMDM
JamVet
February 15th, 2013
11:04 pm
For my USCG brother in arms Mick!
The fumblerooskie!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIRgXCB_sQE
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
11:07 pm
My favorite version of this song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWAEs8XHRmE
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
11:07 pm
Can’t tell you why, but I got into a Cameo mood for a hot second:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZjAantupsA
I’ll try to keep it under better control next time.
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
11:15 pm
Maybe this will put back on the path to respectability. From Dire Straits:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1gG3G07wjI
moonbat betty
February 15th, 2013
11:15 pm
This was difficult to find for some reason.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUybqRzX2sk
Tom(Independent Viet Vet-USAF)
February 15th, 2013
11:21 pm
Let the wealthy pay for it, as Obama would say”pay their fair share”? Really, they should move north of Atlanta, that’s where the vast majority of their paying customers live! Gwinnett Falcons, now I like the sound of it!
Hillbilly D
February 15th, 2013
11:29 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp7_u0kcQRo
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
11:33 pm
Haven’t put this Robbie Robertson up in a while:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAHG4eb0Kcc
Bruno
February 15th, 2013
11:46 pm
Thanks for coming out, everyone.
moonbat betty
February 15th, 2013
11:54 pm
Great mix.
Enjoyed everyone’s contributions.
Well done.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egGdseGTtII
indigo
February 16th, 2013
8:58 am
Aesop – 7:15 pm
H. Sterling Burnett is lead analyst for The National Center For Policy Analysis, an organization funded by wealthy conservative business families including the Koch brothers.
It is in the financial interest of these families to discredit global warming any way they can.
As long as your information comes from these slanted sources, it is essentially worthless.
Chuck Clausen
February 16th, 2013
9:25 am
The Falcon Headquarters are in Flowery Branch, my guess Duluth would attract more season ticket holders. We were season ticket holders for 12 years, the only reason we dropped them was it took so long to get out of downtown Atlanta after the game. I coach in the NFL for 18 seasons, it looked to me like there was a strong trend for NFL teams to move to the suburbs. My guess is land costs are cheaper and more parking options were available.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 16th, 2013
9:50 am
It is in the financial interest of these families to discredit global warming any way they can.
As long as your information comes from these slanted sources, it is essentially worthless.
indie – Are you really going to put it out there that our government is working in OUR best interests when funds whole bureaucracies and organizations all slanted towards proving this myth?
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 16th, 2013
10:11 am
It is in the financial interest of Algore and George Soros, et al, to promote global warming any way they can.
Corrected you statement indigo.
A Realist
February 16th, 2013
10:15 am
I often disagree with you Kyle, but this time (among some others) you have nailed the issue, and are bringing out why people are perplexed about this issue.
For that matter, why build a retractable roof when a totally enclosed stadium would be far less expensive to build and maintain? We don’t need a new toy with all the bells and whistles that will ultimately need expensive repairs. But then again, if you don’t build a retractable roof, then why destroy something that still perfectly functional? Maybe this is all about corporate welfare?
A concerned public wants to know.
indigo
February 16th, 2013
10:54 am
Aesop
Big Business stands to lose billions and billions of dollars if global warming is proved to be caused by man-made CO2 emmissions from gas, oil and coal. It’s no surprise they will fight to disprove it any way they can. Big Tobbaco did the same thing.
Please explain how billions and billions of dollars can be illegally made by falsifying global warming data.
indigo
February 16th, 2013
10:58 am
Aesop – “proving this myth”
Your fundamentalist pastor and teachers are not in the same league as the worlds top climate scientists.
I think, deep down, you know this but constant fundamentalist brainwasing makes it difficult to accept.
http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/politics/2374/_creationism_and_global_warming_denial__anti_science_s_kissing_cousins/
yuzeyurbrane
February 16th, 2013
11:11 am
Our statehouse politicians still don’t get it. They act as if the $200 million in existing bond authority is the starting point for seeking more government financing. The raising of the GWCC bond limit from $200 million to $300 million just reflects a tactical error Blank and Deal made when they first pushed the $200 million bond increase through in the middle of the night and under radar. Darn, they miscalculated and had to come back to the legislature at a time voters are watching. But the original $200 million of public support was just as wrong as the proposed upward change. Not a penny of bonds should go to this greedy project and the legislature should put on its collective big boy pants and man up to having made a mistake with the sub rosa $200 million and repeal it. That way when the the current Dome bonds are soon paid off, the tax can be eliminated or directed to other more urgent issues. As far as the City of Atlanta goes, it is broke and has a high list of items of much higher priority for scarce public funds. Don’t you think it is odd that Reed is so vague and evasive about how much extra would be stuck on Atlanta taxpayers? He wants a high profile public works project with lots of short term jobs for his voters so he can sweep to reelection. Mayor, why not just build a Pyramid and achieve the same effect?
wallbanger
February 16th, 2013
11:24 am
Most people can’t even afford to go to these games. They are limited to corporate money, and drug dealers. I was down at the parking lot before a game and all I saw were blacks having a great old time. Are you going to tell me that most of the money and taxes made and paid in this city are from blacks? I hardly think so. So I think if you took the ticket sales to drug dealers out of the equation there wouldn’t be any crowd at a Falcons game.
midnight garden
February 16th, 2013
11:44 am
I remember when the Ga Dome had its first game in 92. Its unbelievable we need a new one so soon. Definitely has to be theres money in it for somebody so its going to happen. I just hope the tax payers don’t get stuck with the bill. And the arguement that the Ga Dome will need repairs, etc, well the new stadium will also have upkeep charges too. Its not like once its here theres no more to be spent on it.
10 years from now, I could see it. Just not so soon.
When I see our stadium on tv, it still looks really nice.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 16th, 2013
11:45 am
Please explain how billions and billions of dollars can be illegally made by falsifying global warming data.
By taxing energy use?
Ray
February 16th, 2013
11:51 am
The obvious answer to “why now” is: someone is demanding it, presumably, Arthur Blank.
Kyle, you would have advised different timing. The Falcons are hot, and I can’t help think the pride in have a winning team might make it easier to sell, if we had not just come through the Great Depression. Who knows, maybe having a grand, brand new stadium might be the trick to raise our spirits (the Phoenix, from the ashes). Seeing people at work, huge cranes, heck I just convince myself it is GREAT idea.
Whirled Peas
February 16th, 2013
11:57 am
If it is so easy to tax snowbirds on their way down south, why do we have to pay income tax, property tax and sales tax?
Hillbilly D
February 16th, 2013
12:01 pm
Back to the original topic, Roads will add to stadium price; unclear who’ll pay. Unclear who will pay? A blind man can see the answer to that one; the same people who always pay, i.e. the Great Unwashed. And Atlanta won’t have the money for that, especially after ponying up $300 million, so that’s where Arthur sticks his hand in the state pockets.
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/roads-will-add-to-stadium-price-unclear-wholl-pay/nWQtp/
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
12:24 pm
indigo: Big Business stands to lose billions and billions of dollars if global warming is proved to be caused by man-made CO2 emmissions from gas, oil and coal. It’s no surprise they will fight to disprove it any way they can. Big Tobbaco did the same thing.
Aesop–indigo is one of those Libs who believes in AGW because she wants to, not because it is a valid scientific theory. It confirms her pre-determined world view that corporations (and maybe people in general) are inherently evil, that they exist only to damage the planet and to screw everybody else over.
And, as is typical, the most vocal supporters of AGW are often the ones who understand the science (or lack thereof in this case) the least. You can present reasonable doubts with all of the factual backup you want to folks like her, and she’s not budging an inch. A few ad hominem arguments and blind appeals to authority later, and everything is right in their world again.
The bottom line is that self-righteousness she thrives on, like self-pity, is a mighty addictive drug, and just as toxic in the long-run.
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
12:29 pm
From yahoo: “Obama Bypasses Congress With Public Economic Pitch”
http://news.yahoo.com/obama-bypasses-congress-public-economic-pitch-140104549.html
From the article: “…Obama is trying to change an economic debate that has been focused on deficits and on managing the national debt to one about middle-class opportunities and economic growth. Just into his second term, Obama and his aides want to move away from the type of budget confrontations that have defined the past two years and take advantage of his re-election to pressure Republicans.”
So, tell us again Libs how willing the President is to reach across the aisle, and how focused he is on what matters most to the country right now.
Dusty
February 16th, 2013
12:30 pm
I guess this is a question of how much money will a new stadium cost as compared to how much money will it bring to Atlanta. Of course!
But, when you think about what percentage of people go to Falcon’s games as compared to the total population of Atlanta or even Georgia, it is very very small.
I don’t see how the public will ever be repaid for any money (taxes) invested in a stadium. Has the old one been paid for ? Who got the money? How can you get a cost estimate on a new stadium when nobody knows who is going to pay for the new roads that will be needed.or what changes in costs will be by the time a new stadiium might be built. Upkeep will start on a new one as soon as it is built. That aint free!!
There are too many guesses here for taxpayers. Obviously, people like me who never attend a Falcons game are not interested in payng for such a facility, especially when we have a good one already.
If business men want a new stadium, let them pay for it and take their chances. The Falcons are business people by the very nature of being professional football players. I don’t care to have my taxes invested in a possible-profitable scheme manufactured by the business world. Keep the government (taxes) OUT of this proposed deal that is definitely not a sure money maker.
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
12:33 pm
In other yahoo news: “Obama treats himself to boys’ weekend in Florida”.
http://news.yahoo.com/obama-treats-himself-boys-weekend-florida-095913407–politics.html
Yep, he’s just like those Occupy folks he loves so much, just at a, shall we say, slightly higher level of comfort.
Hillbilly D
February 16th, 2013
12:38 pm
The Falcons are business people by the very nature of being professional football players.
This is actually something the players have nothing to do with, this is all management. Roger Goodell made $29 million for 2011, which is okay, but don’t be asking for handouts, if the Commish can pull down that kind of money. And by the way, his salary is public record because the NFL (the league not the teams) has non-profit status.
http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2013-02-15/roger-goodell-salary-in-2011-29-million-nfl-commissioner-david-stern-bud-selig
I personally believe that the retired players are going to eventually win their lawsuit, probably after many years and many $$$ spent. I don’t think the future of the NFL is as rosy as most think.
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
12:40 pm
If business men want a new stadium, let them pay for it and take their chances. The Falcons are business people by the very nature of being professional football players. I don’t care to have my taxes invested in a possible-profitable scheme manufactured by the business world. Keep the government (taxes) OUT of this proposed deal that is definitely not a sure money maker.
Even if it were a sure money-maker, Dusty, I’m with you that the government shouldn’t be directly in business that way. A possible argument could be made that there is some public usage of a stadium, and most certainly public “good” is created by the ripple effect on the local economy, so that it’s constitutional, but I think a wall needs to be in place between business and government, in the same way that a wall needs to be in place between religion and government.
indigo
February 16th, 2013
12:43 pm
Bruno
The overwhelming majority of climate scientists believe global warming is real and is caused by man-made emissions.
Do you actually think the best they can do is present “a few ad hominem arguments”? Or that they are the ones who “understand the science the least”?
If so, I’m guessing your source of science information and knowledge comes from fundamentalist teachers and your fundamentalist pastor.
getalife
February 16th, 2013
12:43 pm
goodell should be fired for his treatment of the Saints and there is one retired coach perfect for the job.
His name is Tony Dungy.
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
12:48 pm
HD–I came across this gem last night, a rendition of the old Temptation’s hit, “Standing On Shaky Ground”, done by Phoebe Snow. I think she rocks it, and the guitar work is really spacy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3naBhcnBGE
Dusty
February 16th, 2013
12:51 pm
Hillbilly
The NFL (league) is a non profit organization? That is so rediculous it isn’t even funny. I think I will declare myself a non-profit person because I blog for free ( and the rest that pays isn’t THAT much!)
I wonder when sports because the drug taking profit making professional organziations that they seem to be? Oh well, money is the root of all evil as has been said many times.
Dusty
February 16th, 2013
12:53 pm
Awww…when sports BECAME ..not because. Sorry…
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
12:54 pm
As I said above, folks, ” A few ad hominem arguments and blind appeals to authority later, and everything is right in their world again.” indigo is so dumb, however, it looks like I have to spell it out for her:
ad hominem argument: If so, I’m guessing your source of science information and knowledge comes from fundamentalist teachers and your fundamentalist pastor.
blind appeal to authority: The overwhelming majority of climate scientists believe global warming is real and is caused by man-made emissions.
So, is everything good in your world, indigo?? Too bad you didn’t look at any of the NASA and EPA websites I linked the other day which cast doubt on your supposedly unsinkable theory.
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
12:56 pm
Dusty, even though it’s a song about infidelity, you might appreciate this beautiful performance of “Poetry Man” by the late Phoebe Snow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9GdeGfkXJM
getalife
February 16th, 2013
1:00 pm
Paul Krugman: ‘We’re Halfway To A Lost Decade’ HP
Yes, the w disaster’s consequence is a lost decade of growth.
Never, ever vote gop to lose another decade .
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
1:05 pm
Wow, I made a 64 word sentence in my 12:40 post. That’s more than we get out of HD for a whole day most of the time.
A close friend of mine from Korea told me that they have and expression along the lines of “Men should have heavy lips”.
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
1:07 pm
Yes, the w disaster’s consequence is a lost decade of growth.
Never, ever vote gop to lose another decade .
I can picture getalife 20 years from now in some nursing home, still railing against W.
MarkV
February 16th, 2013
1:07 pm
I have seen many comments on this blog regarding global warming saying, in various forms, “I think (or, “I believe”) that global warming is a natural phenomenon and not caused to a significant extent by the activities of people.” (This is at least a step up from the most backward deniers, who refuse to accept even the phenomenon itself.)
To the above people I would say: You have the right to say that, and to think or believe whatever you want. But if you mean it literally, i.e., that it is a product of your thinking on the subject even though you are not a climatologist, then the value and importance of what you have said is zero, zilch, nada, rien. What evidence can you present, which has not been considered by the scientists, for your “thinking”? How and where did you get that “evidence?”
When someone accuses me “all you can do is make blind appeals to authority since you don’t have the education or intelligence to discuss the pertinent issues on your own,” I can see immediately that I am dealing with someone of impaired or corrupted intellectual ability. Especially when the only contra-argument that person uses is the appeal to “authority,” in this case the muddled opinions of someone who is outside the scientific discipline in question.
A political blog is not a forum for debating complex scientific issues. It is ridiculous when some people start throwing in arguments like “the earth was hotter millions years ago when there were no people here,” or “look, there is extremely cold in Siberia now,” “the scientists are faking the data,” etc., or long-disproven arguments they had read somewhere and they expect to be answered again here. The global warming/climate change debate reminds eerily of the smoking/cancer debate years ago. Just like now, there were powerful economic interests at stake – tobacco companies then, fossil fuels companies now. Just like then, even when a consensus of medical researchers emerged, there were some “deniers.” There were people who refused to believe the link between smoking and cancer because “my granddaddy smoke two packs of cigarettes a day and lived to 96.” People who pooh-poohed the consensus of the specialists in the field and accused those who took that consensus as the best evidence we had of “blind appeals to authority.”
Hillbilly D
February 16th, 2013
1:09 pm
Turns out, the multi-billion dollar money-making machine that is the NFL is, in the eyes of the government, a nonprofit organization. Thanks to an exemption written into the tax code, the league is exempt from federal corporate taxes.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/21715610/we-know-roger-goodells-salary-because-nfl-is-taxexempt-nonprofit
And sports became a business, as soon as they started selling tickets. TV has just magnified things. Babe Ruth made more money than the President of the United States (at the time) but as he said, when asked about it, “……I had a better year than he did”.
money is the root of all evil
The love of is the root of all evil. Wish I had a nickel for every time I heard Grandma explain the difference.
there is one retired coach perfect for the job.
His name is Tony Dungy.
Agree he’d be a good man for the job but don’t think it will ever happen. He’s too honest and the owners want a toady, not a leader, and they control who the commissioner is.
Bruno
February 16th, 2013
1:09 pm
Time for a little Minnie Riperton:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa2vbT42R3w
Hillbilly D
February 16th, 2013
1:10 pm
Opps, only “the love of” is supposed to be bold and of course it was supposed to say money after that. My brain just moves too dang fast sometimes. Leads to brain farts.
And Bruno
Great session work on the Phoebe Snow. Wonder who the players were?
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 16th, 2013
1:17 pm
This suckestration bruhaha is really starting to crack me up. This whole scheme has become a steel trap that our little sociapath, obozo, has sprung on hisself. What committee of tinpots two bits dreamt this up? Imagine the mindless thought process that was expended to produce such an affront. Let’s come up some creepy word to call this so that we frighten the weak minded who perpetually vote for us. All across the metropolitan areas of the United States, the pea brains pop and whirl with menacing thoughts, will this suckestration thing come after me next? It’s a no brainer, boss.
But no, word leaked that the suckestration would turn the dogs loose on the military and the average obozo voter immediately thought “mo money fo me.” And the Cons are like “we’re going to lose the Department of Second Hand Condom Redistribution? You promise?”
So now obozo’s beedy little eyes dart back and forth, he licks his foamy lips with his forked tongue as panic begins to set in. This one wasn’t a big gimmick or shell game! These are real, honest to goodness cuts to federal spending! Hide the lib women and children! Send bookman a big whiny sob story about the .005% cut to the Department of Peace he can post to his blog.
The Repugs didn’t bite on it at all, haha. Don’t worry, you ain’t the only one who’s surprised.
Dusty
February 16th, 2013
1:18 pm
Bruno
I don’t worry about religion because our Constitution has already taken care of that for citizens.. As a Christian, I also feel “free”.in the freedom that Christ gave us.
Of course, free speech allows those who wish to proclaim their faith a chance to speak out. That is fair enough.
Since religion is essentailly personal faith, then it should be personal in our lives. When that personal faith reaches out as it does in our church, then I certainly do support agencies such as Lutheran World Relief, Heifer International,etc. and local efforts such as Networks,etc., which coordinates efforts for the needy in our neighborhood.
Maybe it gets complicated by extremists of any kind or those who reject religion as superfluous. So be it. Fortunately we still live in a country that allows for freedoms along with some restrictions but all aimed at givinig each person the right to direct their own lives. That I treasure.