More of the same in Obama’s SOTU; Rubio hits the right notes in GOP response

One of the primary reasons I didn’t watch President Incompetent last night, Kyle.

Heard it all before (every speech in the last four years in fact), including the “it won’t add to the deficit” stuff.

The guy is a broken record.

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I felt bad for Rubio. He had dry mouth and the set up made it awkward for him to get a sip of water. Been there. Should have had a podium with a bottle of water handy, so he could have paused, taken a short sip and resumed.

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@Kyle…”The GOP response from Sen. Marco Rubio was the party’s strongest counter-argument yet ”

You must have watched the Spanish version and it must have been WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY better than the English one. Only counter I saw in that speech was the one he crashed into as he bombed. You thought Jindal’s speech was bad a few years ago…Rubio made him look like JFK.

My guess is that Rubio will struggle to break 35% favorables with that performance…

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Obviously Rubio was rebutting a different speech. I know they have to have some talking points set ahead of time but it does seem like they should follow along and make it remotely relate to the speech the President actually gave.

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Too bad the liberals who post here really have nothing substantive to say. That always seems to be the case on these blogs. It’s our guy – great; their guy – terrible. What mindless drivel. Anyway, Obama is losing people’s confidence based on the polls. Most people don’t agree with his policies, which is another reason it was surprising he won re-election. Rubio was very positive and upbeat, and his points were hard to argue with. Being anti-business isn’t helping this country, and we need to have economic policies which encourage hiring and expanding.

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Rubio was a dud! Not only that but he made the case for gov’t entitlements quite convincingly like; both his father and mother having medicare and social security for their golden years, like being able to got to college with gov’t assistance, like cubans getting the most preferential immigration assistance, didn’t hear him calling for any cuts there? He really was in over his head and has a ways to go before he is ready for prime time. No amount of boosting by the con world can inflate a rather mediocre performance at best.

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“…and we need to have economic policies which encourage hiring and expanding.”

I keep hearing this from the party that has held the jobs bill hostage for 3 years now.

For years Israel had said Arafat was the obstacle to peace in the conflict with the Palestinians. Arafat’s been dead for 5 or 6 years and still no peace. This hollow call from Republicans for stronger economic policy is similar in it’s absurdity. If you con’s want to help, step up to the plate, stop whining and help govern.

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“we must invest to put more people to work on useful jobs, which, in turn, will attract private investment in job-creating enterprises. The President knows how.”

And he’s proved it in what way that he knows how, Aynie Sue? In his last four years of dismal performance?

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tiberius

People like you are part of the problem here, know it all arm chair politicians, your very good at negativity and one liners but you really offer no solutions except to expound your pomposity and high regard for yourself! Come down out of the clouds – you’re not all that, the president is far and above the previous dolt and doing the best he can with a belligerant house.

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Sailfish, the problem with people who think they know it all, is that they really tick off those of us who actually do know it all.

And unlike you, I’ve actually served in an elected capacity and didn’t just sit around and arm chair quarterback politicians.

And your issue is that you don’t like the solutions I’ve offered, not that I haven’t offered them.

And to blame the House is disingenuous at best. They’ve at least passed bills. It’s the Senate that hasn’t even bothered to take any of them up. You can’t sign something that hasn’t reached your desk, sailfish, and the ONLY elected body which hasn’t passed anything in almost 3 years now is the Democrat-controlled Senate.

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@Aesop…”I guess I could be missing something here, but if we “reduced” the deficit, how come it keeps going up?”

Yep you missed something…

FY 2009 deficit (Duhbya’s last stand) $1.4 trillion
FY 2013 projected deficit $901 billion

Net improvement $500 billion a year

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“but how did that work out in the end?”

Just fine. Any other stupid questions, JDW?

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Too bad the conservatives who post here really have nothing substantive to say. That always seems to be the case on these blogs. It’s our guy – great; their guy – terrible. What mindless drivel. Anyway, Republicans are losing people’s confidence based on the polls. Most people don’t agree with their policies, which is another reason it was surprising they won re-election. Obama was very positive and upbeat, and his points were hard to argue with. Being anti middle class isn’t helping this country, and we need to have economic policies which encourage hiring and expanding.

There, fixed it for you.

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America needs effective leadership, and new ideas. Obozo’s failed regime offers neither.

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“Over the last few years, both parties have worked together to reduce the deficit by more than $2.5 trillion – mostly through spending cuts – obozo”

President Incompetent-speak for “It could have been worse. If I hadn’t had a GOP Congress that reined me in, I would have spent that $2.5 trillion.”

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“Yeah, might be best if you leave economics to the adults.”

Does this mean you’re leaving us, Finn?

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FY 2009 deficit (Duhbya’s last stand) $1.4 trillion
FY 2013 projected deficit $901 billion
———————–

2009 was the end of the recession. It’s four years later. The pre-recession deficits were, what, $200-$300 billion?

Obozo: Miserable failure, and the biggest spender since WWII.

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“Getting rid of Al-Quaida- heck Bush did that when he put that Mission Accomplished sign and flew a plane onto a carrier.”

Uh, no, he didn’t not so independent non-thinker. It correctly signaled the end of offensive operations in the Iraq war, as has been pointed out ad nauseum to you.

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Bush did that when he put that Mission Accomplished sign and flew a plane onto a carrier

Now if someone in our military had been dumb enough to give W the controls on the plane you could have written “flew a plane into a carrier.”

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“my issue is that before 2008 not one word was ever uttered about the debt.”

Another statement that is blatantly false, sailfish.

“Well, who the hell put us there?”

Both GOP and Democrat-controlled Congresses and failed Presidential leadership for over 30 years.

“Bush signed every bill and never vetoed any spending until the dems took control in 2007.”

Finally, you’ve made a correct statement.

“Every conservative principle was put in place during his reign”

Not so. Conservative principles are supposed to include smaller government and less spending.

“and the result? Bankrupt america and an economic crash that almost led to another great depression.”

Nope. Lots of things contributed to this mess, and his term of office didn’t help, but to blame him and his policies for this mess is incomplete and sophomoric.

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Congress passes farm bill over Bush veto
June 18, 2008
Bush vetoes NIH budget increase
By Bob Grant | November 14, 2007
To the administration, the fight is about fiscal restraint. The House and Senate have added about $22 billion to the president’s fiscal 2008 discretionary spending budget, officials say.
“I put Democratic leaders on notice that I will veto bills with excessive levels of spending,” said Mr. Bush in a June 16 radio address.

Poor little libbies – they so “smart” but they haven’t gotten to the chapter on who controls spending in our government yet.

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military loathing?

LOL, we aren’t the ones trying to cut their benefits every chance we get.

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“You could say America went from 1st to worst during those 8 years.”

No, YOU could, Finn.

I try not to make such stupid statements.

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Sometimes the goony propaganda can work against you -

2/3/2008 6:08:35 PM ET

The 2009 spending plan sent to Congress on Monday will project huge budget deficits, around $400 billion for this year and next and more than double the 2007 deficit of $163 billion. – Associated Press

Gee, how did we get from $400 billion to 1.4 trillion? Oh yeah, the 800 billion dollar porkulus.

And doesn’t it crack you up, the AP was freaked out shrieking over $400 billion because it was Bush, but they sing like little girls with obozo and 1.4 trillion.

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“His ethnicity is icing on the cake.”
.
And hence…..Rubio…….(open border big government, neo-con) .. the last designated loser of the Republican party.
.
Maybe Hillery will appoint him Diversity Czar or something.
.
sad.

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“more than double the 2007 deficit of $163 billion”
———————-

Wouldn’t that be the budget put together by the Republicans, before Democrats started writing the budgets?

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Aesopp, Jay has a chart up that you might want to take a look at.

I assume you’ve been banned from commenting over there, but I expect he’d let you in and allow you to look at the chart.

You might, just might, learn something.

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I won’t hold my breath of course, but miracles do happen…

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Hey Tib, buddy, I’m happy for you – I’d rather have you whining here than, say, kicking your dog….

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And I see that the minimum wage was once again brought up as a saving grace vs as a gov’t interference, which goes to show the difference in ideology.

Minimum wage jobs are stepping stone jobs folks, not designed for eternity. One ideology believes the pay should go up because one had a birthday while the other believes the pay should go up when an individual decides to better oneself and get the heck out of that crappy job…..

It’s simple math for those that actually run businesses……and what’s the difference between $7 and $9 you say? It’s only $2 right? If a company only has a budget of $30 for labor, which is better for the economy, hiring 3 people @ $9 ($27) or 4 people @ $7 ($28)?? Then multiply the scenario times several thousand………….

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If you have expected anything different from Kyle, you haven’t been paying attention. The same mocking attitude, and critique without any substance.

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which is better for the economy, hiring 3 people @ $9 ($27) or 4 people @ $7 ($28)??

Most credible business owners don’t hire based on what is good for the economy, they hire based on demand.

If a company only has a budget of $30 for labor, which is better for the economy

What is best for the economy is the employer stay in business which means that the employer work within the means of the company and not hire too many people or too few people.

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Kyle, we of the liberal, intelligent persuasion understand that, no matter WHAT Obama says, you and other cons here will trash him anyway and everyway possible.

Needless to say, this renders anything you say against him nothing more than useless propaganda.

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Really, how much respect do these dummycrats have for anyone other than themselves? To actually try and blame the stimulus on Bush, it is truly incredible.

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“Most credible business owners don’t hire based on what is good for the economy, they hire based on demand.”

And that demand determines their budget Finn……they can’t hire more than they can afford to pay for….

“What is best for the economy is the employer stay in business which means that the employer work within the means of the company and not hire too many people or too few people.”

And how does he stay in business if he now has to pay more than his budget allows? He starts by laying people off…….much like Obamacare has done in dictating the definition of a part time worker….now all those folks that were working 30 hrs a week will work 29, it’s simple math.

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And how does he stay in business if he now has to pay more than his budget allows? He starts by laying people off

Yeah, that happens – people have to adjust. Raising the rate is still a good idea.

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Did Romney write the response speech for Rubio?- same tired lines and half truths. I guess the stupid party can’t do any better. That’s why they had two responses to try match Obama and show off their combined stupidity.

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cherokee – Thanks for sending me over to kookman’s blog. While there, I made note that it took almost 75 comments for anyone to even attempt to point out what a total fallacy her little chart was, and even that comment was weak minded. Now I know exactly why she bans all the people that call out her lies.

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Aesop- the chart is a fallacy because it challenges everything right wing media has told you? But I bet you can’t point out WHY it’s a fallacy.

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I thought Obama reached out to the other side of the aisle actualy. I was apprehensive that he was going to come out swinging but I felt he really extended the olive branch. On the other hand, John Bohner could not have been more sourpuss looking and Rubio, that was really sad. I know he was nervous, it was a big speech for him. But he missed the mark on this, I felt he took this as “his” moment to make a campaign speech instead of the job he was suposed to do – rebut the SOTU address. Huge failure. I really felt sorry for him, still do.

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I watched…and listened to both speeches. I thought President Obama’s was rambling. He brought up most major topics and he should have stopped there. His comments on guns were spot on, as it relates to other legislation also.Infrastructure investment…yes.

I thought Rubio’s presentation was just fine, although his content was vague as to real solutions. “Watergate” was a misfortune that distracted many from the message. He should have had a glass on his podium. (Jokingly, I wonder if the bottled water company has signed him to an endorsement?) But as cons said above about the President’s speech…nothing new.

I was left with: What are we to do about our crumbling infrastructure? Who pays? How much is needed? Do we wait for a bridge or road to collapse and then feign surprise or disgust?

Gun control: These reps are mostly lawyers. Figure it out. Required background checks seem mandatory. Mental health guidelines/process is a no brainer. ENFORCEMENT OF EXISTING LAWS IS MANDATORY! FILLING THE HEAD OF ATF IS MANDATORY!

A vote on all political appointments is needed now. Approve? Disapprove? I do not care. VOTE NOW!

Bring the troops home. For those non-national Guard units, give them some rest…and then assign them to our borders. Then pass an immigration bill. Figure it out. The hell with Repubs and Dems….figure it out. What is the right thing to do? How can we afford what is settled on? VOTE!

I believe in Jay’s comment concerning that we cannot continue to run from trumped up problem to problem. SOLVE IT! DO SOMETHING!

I AM NOT PAYING FOR MY GOVERNMENT TO DO NOTHING. IT’S ABOUT TIME BOTH PARTIES DO THEIR JOBS IN LEGISLATING.

Cut the hell out of the budget. Approve sequester. And when the economy tanks repubs will be the culprits. If it thrives the GOP will be heroes. I think it will tank. Measured investment esp in our infrastructure will provide jobs. Or are you going to wait for only private investment in infrastructure? It does not appear that all those record profits are earmarked for infrastructure…now are they?

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Anyone, and unfortunately that includes a 102 year old individual that waits until election day to vote brings it on themselves.

Maybe she was undecided….

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md

February 13th, 2013
8:35 am

You’re an idiot! Who was the democratically elected government by the Palestinians, Hamas or Fatah? did Israel and the U.S. after calling for democratic elections in the occupied territories accept the will of the people?

Abbas was the servant of the Americans who having struck a deal without the support of the Palestinian people had the rug pulled out from under him by the Israelis and the Americans making the acceptance of Hamas that much easier.

Was Fatah not accused of vote rigging and intimidation by human rights groups? And as far as Hamas attacking “one of their own”, how is it any different than the hostility the Repug’s show to our President?

You haven’t thought far enough to lecture me. Keep it moving.

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I and many like me on the bottom of the totem pole

Who was it that that wrote earlier on this blog that the minimum wage is a stepping stone. Maybe it’s time for you to step up, md?

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You libs are blaming the 2009 stimulus on Bush, which, on it’s face, is unbelievable.

No we aren’t. It was introduced in January 2009. And now we need another one.

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And what does it say about the columnist that posts such drivel? Is he being paid to blame the stimulus on Bush? Or is he just stupid?

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jdw – From YOUR article -

The CBO expects tax revenue in 2009 to fall by $166 billion, or 6.6%, from the previous year’s collection.

OK, so what happened to the other 834 billion? Wow, that’s awful close to the 800 billion stimulus, imagine that.

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“You’re an idiot! Who was the democratically elected government by the Palestinians, Hamas or Fatah? did Israel and the U.S. after calling for democratic elections in the occupied territories accept the will of the people? ”

Ooooh, the idiot card. Pretty much shows us your character……..

Abbas was elected also, so get over it. Israel tried to appease Hamas by unilaterally pulling out of Gaza……how did that work out for them?

I’m not going to debate much with an individual that has no character, but hamas is and always will be the major stumbling block. When their charter was written on the principle of abolishing Israel and they refuse to even discuss the idea of recognizing Israel as a sovereign state, it’s not hard to see where the problem originates…….

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“Who was it that that wrote earlier on this blog that the minimum wage is a stepping stone. Maybe it’s time for you to step up, md?”

How many unions do you know where the pay was minimum wage? I don’t think I’ve ever seen one.

No Finn, I will be the first to tell you we were overpaid for what we did, hence the reason I had no problem taking a pay cut in return for keeping a job…….those at the top, not so much…..and in the end their lack of willingness to understand that is what lead to the demise of all the jobs……

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Kyle made a fine summary this morning. I read the president’s speech and could not believe much of it. What he does is take facts and then twist them to make them sound good, either by deletions or using words that sound better. It was like a football coach telling a team how good they are at half time when they haven’t scored a point. Strangely enough, our “coach” did not say a word about his poor “coaching’ abiltities.

I did not hear Rubio. So the man took a drink of water. What did you expect? Bourbon?

I see our party Dems here are still fixated on George W. Bush. That’s like remembering the good days while the rain is falling now. Yep, you could believe what Bush said because he did not try to fool us. Now we get the “song & dance” with “pie in the sky”. Ho hum

Off into the rain on the plain and I’ll try not to complain…..

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What he does is take facts and then twist them to make them sound good,

Pot, meet Kettle. Kettle, Pot.

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“…could believe what Bush said because he did not try to fool us.”

Because he ran two wars completely off his submitted Budgets. For two terms.

Or would you rather re-read his “Blue Skies” environmental legislation?

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Well I’ve got to run . But sorry to see that FINN is inclined to “pot” and JUST SAYING did not know that we were at war when Bush was president. These people are kinda slow!

Bye!

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“Well I’ve got to run .”

Cause I’m not prepared to defend my drive-by remarks…

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md

February 13th, 2013
9:37 am

Arafat was the problem…he’s gone. They couldn’t make a deal work with Fatah and now Hamas is the problem. It seems the only constant in the narrative is Israel’s leadership.

As I stated in the beginning if the Repug’s would stop whining and help govern maybe they would stop being the constant obstacle in the narrative of stagnant government in the U.S.

And my calling you an idiot has nothing to do with my character and more with my ability to discern. Learn the difference.

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Now I know exactly why she bans all the people that call out her lies.

Presumably that’s some sort of attempted insult to call Jay a “she.” There’s Mr. Constitution at his finest, sitting in his tiny pup tent and wondering why everyone doesn’t admire his self-proclaimed brilliance.

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“And my calling you an idiot has nothing to do with my character and more with my ability to discern.”

Discern? If one does not understand that calling people names reflects much more on the name caller vs the callee, then I can’t help you……..

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Cherokee, just curious. You’re big into class warfare yet say you’re a business owner in the insurance business in Cherokee County. Something doesn’t add up. Your business acumen must not be too good because you’ve clearly got lots of time to hang out on the blogs here and who knows where else. Then again, maybe your messiah’s assaults on business and the insurance industry have hurt your business.

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“Yep, he did it all by himself……we got where we are as a joint effort, don’t fool yourself in to thinking it was only one “side”.”

The point would be hypocrisy, Fables.
A position you should recognize.
As you’re here all the time…

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Who cares what Kyle and the rest of the nut jobs on the right think, Obama has over a 55% job aprroval rating, something the last rep President who sunk America did not have. Kyle and the rest of the Georgia southern conservatives idiots will never come out of the 20 century and the reason why Dem will win the next two President election.

Mark Rubio is joke and trying to get latinos votes, but latinos are smarter then that and realized conservatives, tea party, whites will never accept them, I hope the head of the NRA and the rest of these idiots who support assult weapons have this same type of support when someone puts a bullet in their love ones head.

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Marco Rubio’s problem was not the monotonous delivery, or reaching for water (I don’t know why people are even talking about the latter- why shouldn’t he take a sip?). Nor the stupid boasting at the beginning that America IS unique because “for much of the history” minorities ruled – never mind all the other countries not ruled by minorities NOW.

No, Rubio problem was that his speech was a collection of platitudes, inconsistencies and inanities, sprinkled with dishonesty. He charges that the President believes that our free enterprise economy is the cause of our problems. Never mind substantiating that charge. He claims the Republicans point out that “our government can’t control the weather,” surely one of the more stupid things anybody could say, but in a tough competition with “every dollar our government borrows is money that isn’t being invested to create jobs.”

Then we have the claim that “President Obama created more debt I four years than his predecessor did in eight.” Probably by proclaiming “Let there be debt.”

Rubio would never support any changes to Medicare that would hurt senior like his mother.
Naturally, because those seniors vote and like what they are getting. So Rubio and the Republicans would do the hurt only to future retirees.

Rubio believes we must effectively deal with the rise of violence in our country. But he is against “unconstitutionally undermining the 2nd Amendment rights of law-abiding Americans,” never mind that nobody proposes that.

Rubio talks about “the President’s devastating cuts to our military.” Suddenly the sequester cuts, which the Congress passed and most Republican leaders voted for become the President’s cuts.
Marco Rubio should have spent much more time drinking water and much less time speaking.

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gm

cite the source of that 55% approval rating. I inadvertently was on a website yesterday that had all the polls on Obama’s approval rating. I saw several below 50% and one or two at 52%, but I didn’t see any 55%. I saw one at 46% and thought that is lower than GWB at the end.

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How many times can one watch this guy lie without conscience to the American people so he and his cronies can live high on the hog on our dime, quite the racket. I’d rather watch Gilligan’s Island re-runs than waste an hour of my life that I can never recover.

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Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America

CNN, Fox, Ny Times, ect, ect, You conservative in Georgia are so stupid that when Obama is giving credit to schools in Georgia you idiots are bad mouthing that.

This is why Obama is loved around the world and in other places around the USA and won the election by 3 million votes because he gives credit to even hated filled southern confederates who still live in the 20 century.

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gm

The poll findings are consolidated at Real Clear Politics and you are right Rasmussen has him at 55%. All the others are lower, in some cases much lower. As you have pointed out repeatedly, you just can’t depend on that right wing troll Scott Rasmussen.

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Marco Rubio will never be president, he is not electable. The vast majority of Americans will not vote for a candidate who is anti-science and anti-choice. He is not a rising star in the GOP, he is yet another extremist freak who is keeping the car in the ditch.

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Blue State, Red Face: Guess Who Benefits More From Your Taxes?
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_reckoning/2012/10/25/blue_state_red_face_guess_who_benefits_more_from_your_taxes.html

So spare me all that red state angst about the federal deficits and national debt. When you stop spending New Jersey’s money, Texas, and produce a plan to replace it with your own revenue stream, then you’ve earned an opinion in the matter.

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“Naturally, because those seniors vote and like what they are getting. So Rubio and the Republicans would do the hurt only to future retirees.”

Don’t they get hurt anyway if the program is broken and doesn’t get fixed?

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“If I called you a Republican or Independent that would be just noticing which way you leaned, soooo…..”

You are grasping Willie in an effort to redeem yourself.

Here’s an idea, raise your hand, say to yourself and others that name calling isn’t necessary to get a point across and go on with your life.

Or, deny it and continue on along the low road……

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Finn….more of that red state blue state non-sense?

Now, put it into context and remember that military bases are included in that federal spending as are senior citizens and their medicare, and SS payments.

Shoot, Fl alone can screw up your premise…..how many seniors that live in Fl moved their after they retired from the north? Doesn’t it make sense that those up north should supplement their own old people?

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Finn McCool @ 11:00 am

“No one is talking about Rand Paul’s speech? No one cares?”

Who wants to listen to or read a collection of slogans? I must be a masochist for reading it, but I will gladly forget it.

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It’s another speech saying how the government’s going to take some more freedom away, jack up the national debt worse than it already is, and still say “it’s all Bush’s fault”, sugarcoated like a dozen Krispy Kreme donuts.

Par for the course for Democrats.

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aesop

Your right, we should have kept the cost of two wars off the books and with invisible ink, that way obama could have false numbers just like george and we wouldn’t have to hear your constant whine.

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I hope we have a country left for Rubio to be president of!! But Obama may try to be the Emperior forever when his 2nd term comes to an end, Democrates will be pushing for a constitional amedment to allow presidents to run again and again.. Emperior Obama..

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On a point of agreement:

” Too many families who have never missed a payment and want to refinance are being told no. That’s holding our entire economy back, and we need to fix it. Right now, there’s a bill in this Congress that would give every responsible homeowner in America the chance to save $3,000 a year by refinancing at today’s rates.”

It has never made sense that those underwater homeowners that have never missed a payment should be shut out because the collateral is underwater. Those homeowners are making the payments, our financial institutions need to reward their good customers instead of punishing them, that is bad business…….

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md
He boils it down to two simple numbers.

You are not adding in the enhanced revenue since Krugman proposed his plans the other day. They plan to pay for all this with “death panels and sales tax”. The only time a Dem speaks of sales tax revenue, is when he has exhausted all other sources.

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I may not remember what Marco Rubio said but I am sure not going to forget that water break. At least he took a measurable sip and not a large gulp.

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Rubio did not offer one single solution to any problem this nation faces and THAT will be his downfall. All he did was say the President is wrong. Nothing more. Really? That is how you fix things? Please GOP, turn off the lights and go home… you’re finished.

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md

February 13th, 2013
11:13 am

No md, I’m calling you an idiot because that’s what I see. Not grasping or groping, just stating the obvious. If it walks like a duck….you get it.

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Aesopp, Jay has a chart up that you might want to take a look at.

At your invitation, Cherokee, I took a gander at Bookman’s column. As expected, he immediately reached for the race card, in keeping with his POS character. Pretty lame rhetorical advice, but extremely popular on the Left side of the aisle for 4 years running.

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LOL @ Aquagirl.

Hey, maybe you and sail might hit it off, although I think he may be a tad out of your age range. That is unless you think grey fins are distinguishing on a sailfish.

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You would think these cons could set up a podium and a glass of water.They desire to go from Water Boy to President in one fell swoop.Dream on.

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You would think these cons could set up a podium and a glass of water.

I do have to give Rubio or his team credit for tweeting a picture of bottled water right after the speech. Heh.

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“You got a problem with that?!?! ”

Ha!
Always worth the read…

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I eat herring for breakfast but almost regurgitated it with the mention of rubio being dead on… more like dead on arrival.

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md

Just asking Kyle to expand on his statement. That is all.

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Always worth the read…

Yeah, if you can endure Kyle’s site, infested with hate towards us water-dwellers. And never a word from him about such flagrant disregard.

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I didn’t know Planet Moonbat had water on it?? Oh yeah, the Great Fever Swamps. I forgot.

Never mind.

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@Tiberius…”I try not to make such stupid statements.”

Hummmm…I think Forrest had you pegged…

“Stupid is as stupid does”

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“Yeah, if you can endure Kyle’s site, infested with hate towards us water-dwellers. And never a word from him about such flagrant disregard.”

Yeaaahh, a little does go a long way…
Laissez faire ideology, I guess
Or as Bruce C. phrases it, “Idolatry of ideology…”

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@Aseop…”You libs are blaming the 2009 stimulus on Bush”

You need to catch up with reality…the stimulus was passed in 2009 not spent. In fact less than $200 billion was spent in 2009. Of the $1.4 trillion in deficit spending in 2009 Duhbya was directly responsible for $1.2 of it.

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MarkV: As for the future, it is interesting to see some people arguing against scientific models containing assumptions (md, February 12th, 2013@6:39 pm: “No Mark, what is most disturbing is that models are used that contain assumptions…”), and then arguing using assumptions in prediction models in the much more uncertain field of economics and human behavior.

md: One is predicated on assumptions of a whole range of variables while the other is basic math Mark. Or did you miss the part about already having to borrow the money from other sources to pay for the program?

md–Although you well addressed MarkV’s statement, I thought it was worth highlighting one more time as a demonstration of how stupid and uninformed he is. Which wouldn’t be a problem unto itself if he didn’t have such a bad attitude.

From last night:

MarkV: Another piece of hogwash, and if that is an example of Mr. Dyson’s knowledge, then calling him a “brilliant scientist” is a travesty. Models are used in every field of science, and Mr. Dyson contradicts himself thoroughly in that one quoted claim. “They do not begin to describe the real world we live in…” Apparently, to Mr. Dyson, motions of atmosphere and the oceans is “not the real world we live in.” Which world is it?

In case you are unfamiliar with Freeman Dyson, MarkV, he is probably the most brilliant mathematician/theoretical physicist who didn’t win the Nobel Prize. His greatest claim to fame was in demonstrating that the “path integral method” of calculation for quantum electrodynamics advanced by Richard Feynman was equivalent to the “operator method” developed independently by Julian Schwinger and Sin-Itiro Tomonaga. Almost up there with Euler’s discovery of God’s Equation e^i x pi -1 = 0. As such, I think Mr. Dyson knows a little bit more about scientific modeling than you do. His comment had nothing to do with your kindergarten-level discovery that no model = reality, and a lot more to do with the fact that the current computer models which are driving the global warming scare are crap.

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Well then.
Have discovered this blog does foresee the need to filter SOME words, AG.
Such as a portion of the name of the Canadian folk-rock guitarist Bruce “koh-bərn”.

And not really his fault. He didn’t have a hand in it…

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bruno

Sorry, but my fins are still true blue and I always like to swim against the current, makes life a more challenging.

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Giving the rebuttal to the SOTU is a thankless job, and very risky for a politician. You are almost always going to look small compared to the President. And, simple things like repeatedly wiping sweat off your temples or lips, or the now infamous water awkward bottle reach, reminds people how experienced our presidents are (and conversely how inexperienced the rebuttal-ist was) . Big moment optics can be hard to over come.

Rubio struck a good tone, but when it turned personal and ugly, where he essentially called President Obama a liar, he turned off the 51% who care a great deal for our president, or those who find bad manners unbecoming a US Senator. It was not necessary.

I hope Senator Rubio is successful, and brings this nation together.

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ray

Interesting comment..not a rubio fan but it really has to be the toughest assignment to follow the potus..every experience helps you grow and this was probably one of those for rubio.
It’s not him personally, just the same old party line, they definitly need a makeover and quick.

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“You need to catch up with reality…the stimulus was passed in 2009 not spent. In fact less than $200 billion was spent in 2009. Of the $1.4 trillion in deficit spending in 2009 Duhbya was directly responsible for $1.2 of it.”

One is quite welcome to keep posting that kind of stuff, but it doesn’t make it true:

” Jan. 12 (Bloomberg) — President-elect Barack Obama asked the Bush administration to notify Congress he plans to seek the remaining $350 billion in financial-rescue funds, White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said.

Obama, who takes office on Jan. 20, called President George W. Bush this morning about 20 minutes after Bush said in his final White House news conference that he was willing to act on the president-elect’s behalf if asked. ”

And then there was a bunch of appropriations bills throughout 2009….none of which was signed by Bush.

A budget is a proposal, spending is an entirely different subject.

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dusty

Scales ruffled? Nah…swimming with the flow and just eating my share of bait fish. By the way, stay away from that burger king fish sandwich, I have it on good authority that it’s my misunderstood neighbors the barricuda…they tell me to pass this on: Try chik-fil-a!

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rubio’s water bottle went viral but his career ended when he said w did a great job.

You can’t fix a stupid party.

Just keep marginalizing the cons.

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Dusty

Are the Dems still in control of the House?

bwhahahahahahahaha

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At least the corporations are thriving, eh ?

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Looks like the Gov will raise some taxes too, spend, spend,spend….

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/deal-signs-hospital-bed-tax-bill-giving-medicaid-a/nWNNY/

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getalife

Not sure who Dusty is jealous of or not, but anyone posting about the Dems controlling the House and how they have had the checkbook for the last 4 yrs as she did a week or so ago, would be best sticking to poetry and leave political commentary to others.

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Ahh Sailfish,

I think you are now an artful angelfish! But watch those barracudas. Not only will they eat anybody, they will vote for anybody.

But part with BurgerKIng? Me? Surely you jest! The answer to that is Nevah!

Do keep a sharp eye in the muddy water. There’s some strange one sided flanders in your school and they are flat out wrong.

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Politico,

Like rubio, dusty thinks w did a great job.

No credibility.

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From every account, every measure, any source, whatever….

The largest percentage of our federal budget goes to the military. It is not medicare. It is not welfare. It is not edcuation. It is nothing else. It is the military. This is true in 2013 and has been true for every year for the last many many years.

Why is it the republicans want to focus on the portions of the budget? Isn’t today’s military high tech? Why do we need so many people? How many does it take to make a drone fly?

Why do the republicans refuse to look at the chunk of the budget that eats up most of the money? WHY?

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“Hi getalife, you still swimming around?”

I am alive and kicking.

Our country is doing much better now and our future is back to looking good.

I blame our President for this fact.

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getalife

Wasn’t that Dusty just made an oversight about Dems controlling the House; anyone could have made the mistake and used D or R by mistake. It was that she as so sure of her willful ignorance that she went on and on about the spending and how the Dems controlled it all because they controlled the House and approval of that spending.

It really wasn’t much of an eye opener to anyone who reads this blog, but was amusing to see her back peddle when shown the facts. Needless to say it wasn’t a pretty sight.

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Well Jefferson you better hope corporations are thriving. After all it’s them and their employees whose taxes foot the bill for the dems nanny state. The nanny state can’t pay for itself dontcha know.

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Question for Reality:

What is the wealthy’s ‘fair share’ of income taxes?

Can you give me a number or percentage?

I ask this question from time to time, but have never received an answer.

I’m just really curious, Can anyone define ‘fair share’?

If I prepare my tax return and follow the existing tax laws and get a refund from the IRS, have I payed my fair share?

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corporations and the wealthy will be fine but keep staying the course on slobbering all over Americans that need no help from any American.

We will focus on the middle class while you are without leadership stuck in the wilderness divided and conquered.

Our future is bright.

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dusty,

We cut 2.5 trillion but our President wants more cuts to total 4 trillion.

The deal is still on the table.

Why is your party walking away from this grand bargain?

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Oh dear, I see Politico, that sweet thing, has looked up “flanders”. ahh Flanders Field where the poppies bloom!

But of course, I was talking about those flat footed flounders of fish fame.to the amiable angelfish I guess I was just “floundering ” around. Somethng definitely “fishy” going on here!

Now, what was the recent subject of cerebral stupefaction? . Oh yes, the ;president’s speech. OK….If you say so…

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md @ 12:51 pm

One does not call a program broken because it has a shortfall. The real issue with Medicare is future funding, not current funding.

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“the real issue with Medicare is future funding, not current funding.”

True, both SS and Medicare needed tweaks since the start.

ObamaCare will need tweaks too.

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Dusty

Well you wrote “flanders” in your 2:07 post. Plus you seem to think Democrats have controlled the House for the last four years, so I was just making sure

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getalife, dear valentine

Republicans walk away from the president’s promises because he forgets them the next day.

There’s the first election promises, the first term promises, the second election promises and now he reports to the nation with promises.

Republicans werent” just born yesterday”, as ’tis said. We know his promises of today will be gone tomorrow and we don’t want the country to be “gone” too..

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The TARP program originally authorized expenditures of $700 billion. The Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act reduced the amount authorized to $475 billion. By October 11, 2012, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) stated that total disbursements would be $431 billion and estimated the total cost, including grants for mortgage programs that have not yet been made, would be $24 billion.

The blank check for 24 billion, eh?

By the way, this is how obozo can claim even the most meager of spending cuts, paybacks to the treasury from Bush’s highly successful bailout program.

Now all we have to do to get right is to have some 800 billion porkulus paid back to the treasury, hahahahahahaha, yeah, like that hasn’t all been snorted up their noses.

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Thank you, Politico. That’s the best valentine I ever received from an old barnacle.

Keep hangin’ on there!

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Did you know the total costs of bailing out the gse’s of fred and fan?

Of course not because it is ongoing.

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Bruno,

I know then you pretend to be informed.

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getalife,

Did you know that if fairies danced on mushrooms every night we could have more mushroom soup?

I promise you. More soup for the starving obese children! Cross my heart!!

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You are most certainly welcome big Dust……..

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Brunio,

If you don’t know the “cons”, wait until you meet the” dems”. Would almost beat the Hatfields and the McCoys!

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dusty lives in con la la land where facts don’t matter.

Bless her poor lil heart.

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getalife,

did you mean THE president. I didn’t watch the president because I already knew what he was going to say, which as it turned out like usual, pretty much nothing of substance,

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From Mr. Dyson, a “brilliant scientist,” one would expect something better than suggesting that atmosphere and the ocean are not the real world we live in.

Let me spell it out a little more slowly for you, MarkV. Mr. Dyson’s objections centered on the fact that the computer models currently used by the anointed climatologists don’t account for the effect that clouds and dust have on temperature. Nor do they include the effects of regular old water vapor. They basically center on one factor, and one factor alone, i.e. CO2, which is why it has been mislabeled as a “toxin” or “poison”. Here’s a link straight from NASA to explain it in more detail for you.

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/vapor_warming.html

In terms of “greenhouse gases”, methane needs to be feared far more than CO2, since its impact on global warming is estimated to be 20 times as great. I’ll include a link from the EPA in my next post, since there is a one-link-per-post limit here.

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Come on, MarkV.

Tomorrow is Valentine’s Day. Now say somethnig delightful .with heart warming charm. We’ve got enough cold gray drizzle outside for the day. Now smile!!. Even if it hurts!! (Nevermind. That reminds me of my dentist. This won’t hurt! eeeeekkkkkk)

I’m gone now to work on my taxes.

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You can make a point without falsehoods and lies.

I did. Our debt was around 200 billion.

Yes we had some. Thank you for being so diligent and pointing out a fact that doesn’t change my original assertion one bit.

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Now, if you want to truly educate yourself about Global Warming, MarkV (and JDW), you need to look at the graph below which charts global temps back 400,000 years or so using Antarctic Ice Core Data:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.daviesand.com/Choices/Precautionary_Planning/New_Data/IceCores1.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.daviesand.com/Choices/Precautionary_Planning/New_Data/&h=380&w=750&sz=16&tbnid=ZGU2Pnf9DeQpQM:&tbnh=61&tbnw=121&zoom=1&usg=__fCGxa49tbDa7xy4UFvW1jNBJb6Q=&docid=n1vx4sQhW9XwTM&sa=X&ei=lPYbUaHoOYaS9QS1r4CYCA&ved=0CD0Q9QEwAQ&dur=380

You may notice, shock of shocks, that the Earth has warmed and cooled many times in the past. In fact, the Earth has been warmer in the past than it is now, all long before man had any impact at all on the climate. What that suggests is that there are built-in homeostatic forces at work in which both warming and cooling cycles are self-limited. But, none of the current computer models take such homeostatic forces into consideration, because they’re not well-understood.

So, tell me again how your Lib buddies have it all figured out. You really need to heed the wise words of Richard Feynman, who is likely the smartest human being to walk the Earth since Einstein:

“I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong. If we will only allow that, as we progress, we remain unsure, we will leave opportunities for alternatives. We will not become enthusiastic for the fact, the knowledge, the absolute truth of the day, but remain always uncertain … In order to make progress, one must leave the door to the unknown ajar.”

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“Rubio might be another great one too. Looking forward to that. .”

But Dusty, you’ll have to wait til 2020.
After Mitt’s second term…

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“It was w that wrote the blank check with no strings attached to bail out the banks.”

Oh, give ‘em credit, getalife.

There was that 3 page Paulson outline…

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Your choice, but it was one of the other.

It was neither. Considering what our debt is now I consider 200 billion “nothing”

The Air Force blows that much every other day on a jet nobody wants and will never be used.

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If you believe that the climatologists are not aware and are not taking into account the greenhouse effect of water vapor and methane, then your ”knowledge” of the subject is less than rudimentary.

That so?? Let’s let them speak for themselves, shall we??

http://stratus.astr.ucl.ac.be/textbook/chapter4_node7.html

From the article: “The water-vapour feedback and the lapse-rate feedback can combine their effects. If the temperature increases more in the upper troposphere causing a negative lapse-rate feedback, the warming will also be associated with higher concentrations of water vapour in a region where it has a large radiative impact, leading to an additional positive water-vapour feedback. The exact changes in temperature and humidity at high altitude in response to a perturbation are not well-known.”

Got anything else??

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Bruno @3:32 pm

Bruno, talk to the people who are interested in your “discoveries.” I am not among them. Your comments only reinforce what I have already touched upon. The incredible arrogance of people like you, who think they have discovered some secret knowledge that the climatologists, who deal with these questions as a matter of their specialization, are not aware of. Those ignorant experts all over the world, who overwhelmingly make the same conclusion about global warming, are of course quite unaware of “global temps back 400,000 years or so using Antarctic Ice Core Data.” They did not notice that earth has cooled and warmed up many times in the past, etc., etc. They need Bruno and the rest of the deniers to tell them how to do their job. Where do you find this stupidity and arrogance?

As for Mr. Richard Feynman, “the smartest human being to walk the Earth since Einstein” (according to Bruno), he must have been greatly indisposed when he gave preference to ignorance over knowledge: “I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong.” But it gives me an understanding of what you stand for.

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And I’m sure you are intelligent enough to comprehend that 200billion in 1950 equates to more than that today, right

Yes there is a thing called inflation. Even you know that.

What are you the mayor around here ?

The thing is. By nitpicking with the numbers you feel better.

But you haven’t disputed the original point.

I’m sure somebody somewhere on ajc.com is misspelling something.

You are needed there

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Here’s a more general discussion of computer models in relation to climate forecasting:

http://stratus.astr.ucl.ac.be/textbook/chapter3_node22.xml

“Despite very careful design, there is no guarantee that a computer model will be adequate for its intended use: some processes treated as negligible can turn out to be more important than initially though; a parameterisation may not be valid in the particular conditions of interest or may be incompatible with other hypotheses employed; the selection of parameters can be far from optimal; and so on.”

And in case you are unaware, and I’m sure that you are, virtually none of the dire predictions associated with Global Warming have come to pass. The sea hasn’t risen 6 feet, and there are less violent storms now than in the recent past. Link to follow.

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Aesop – 9:01

Obama is not a Socialist.

See below.

How many times will you repeat this bald faced lie?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

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indie – Just because obozo hasn’t started mass migrations to the countryside and genocide yet, doesn’t mean that he hasn’t displayed some of the traits of being a marxist. Why are you stuck on this?

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@Bruno…”you need to look at the graph below which charts global temps back 400,000 years or so using Antarctic Ice Core Data:”

You are beginning to remind me of a frog in a pot trying to convince everyone that the temp goes up and down instead of trying to figure out how he might get out of the pot.

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Wow, talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Projection much, Mark?

Scrivener–I haven’t seen you here on the blog before, and don’t know your political orientation, but I think that I’ve laid out plenty of reasons to keep an open mind regarding Climate Change, Global Warming, or whatever the nom-du-jour is.

Now, I’m waiting for MarkV to make the leap to claim that I obviously don’t think pollution is a serious problem, or that I’m some kind of a Bible thumper. Folks like him can only imagine two possibilities. indigo already tried to run that rap on me because I don’t swallow the Evolution crap hook-line-and-sinker. Not surprisingly, neither can defend their positions using their own arguments, and are reduced to parroting things they don’t really understand.

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Lots of opinions and NO solutions.

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Bruno @ 4:20 pm
“All you have are blind appeals to authority.”

Which is exactly what Bruno has been doing, with his appeals to Dyson, except that he is appealing to a person outside the field being discussed. There is no “appeal to authority” when one takes as the likely most factual what most of the specialists in the field agree to. If we did differently, in any endeavor based on science, no practical action would be possible, because some people would always find some fanciful things that can be questioned.

The issues the deniers have been raising about global warming have been thoroughly discussed in the most reliable and detailed sources, such as the Fourth Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. A draft of the Fifth Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change has been leaked, and according to Scientific American,

“the draft reaffirms humanity’s starring role in global warming, which, along with sea level rise is now “unequivocal.” Also human caused CO2 increases are now “virtually certain” to be responsible for trapping extra heat. And it is “extremely likely that human activities have caused more than half of the observed increase in global average surface temperatures since the 1950s.”

http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=leaked-report-confirms-human-induce-12-12-16

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Republicans like Marco Rubio and Rand paul are stuck on stupid… They can’t remember to do basic things like useing a podium when they speak to avoid appearing awkward and inept… George Bush forgot to flip down a step on the podium so that the head of the Queen of England could be seen and not just her large hat… The non rich Republican voters are even more clumsy than the elected rookie Republican back benchers… Republican are pathetic and not ready for prime time…

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Bruno, February 13th, 2013 @4:20 pm

“All I’m urging is for folks to keep an open mind for now.”

Bruno, February 12th, 2013 @10:02 pm

“Yet many brilliant scientists like Freeman Dyson aren’t buying the hogwash.”

How many sides of the mouth do you have, Bruno?

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@Bruno…”In your world, either you’re an intelligent, caring person who doesn’t question Anthropogenic Global warming, or you’re a stupid, Bible-thumping dolt.”

There is a difference between questioning and belittling. There is no question that temperatures are rising and that extreme weather events are increasing in frequency. The best models we have at our disposal indicate that unless we act there will be adverse consequences. Now we have a couple of choices. First, we can all attempt to convince ourselves that because our information may in fact be wrong we do nothing or second, we can act in the most prudent manner possible based on the best information available. I choose option B.

It is basic logic …there are only four basic courses of action. You should choose the one that prevents disaster.

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There is a difference between questioning and belittling.

I’m not up for belittling people who do something for a living based on my U. of Google degree. The idea thousands of climatologists overlooked something you found on a crazy website is not a sound thought process.

I do the same with doctors, if 99 out of 100 of them said I had a serious problem, I’d go with the 99. This is not a radical idea, it’s common sense.

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I do the same with doctors, if 99 out of 100 of them said I had a serious problem, I’d go with the 99. This is not a radical idea, it’s common sense.

How much money did you blow on al-gore’s Y2K, aq?

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There is no question that temperatures are rising and that extreme weather events are increasing in frequency.

Sorry, but you’re only half-right, maybe only 1/4 right. Yes, global temperatures have risen slightly (less than 1 degree Celsius) in the 150 years or so that we’ve been measuring them. Not a long enough time frame to make any definitive judgments IMO, and possibly small enough to fall under the range of normal variations. As for the “urban legend” regarding the severity of storms, I already put up a link above to dispel that rumor.

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al-gore’s Y2K

Al Gore and Y2K? Never heard that one before. You must be getting some extra-special forwarded e-mails.

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Then, Gore grew serious and tried to convince people that Y2K was even more important to him than global warming and saving the whales.

“I joined the Cabinet meeting when the president laid down the law and went to each Cabinet department and set in motion efforts to make sure that every Cabinet member understands that this (Y2K) is priority No. 1,” Gore said. – Roger Simon, 2008

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md @6:10 pm
“Oh Ok, so the program is short of money now and has an issue with future funding. Yep, I can see how that equals to being in great shape…..”

Only in md talk “not broken” equals “in great shape.”

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“Lots of opinions and NO solutions.”

It’s an opinion blog Don, solutions don’t come from blogs, solutions come from action…..the only action here is wasting time…..

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Excuse me, 10,000 years ago.

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Here’s a stat that really counts from the US Dept of Labor –percent of workforce actually working –for the past six months it has hovered around 63.6% THE ONLY time it has been lower in the past 33 years was in June 1979 -when –OOPS Carter was president.The unemplyment numbers present a incomplete picture since it doesnt count people who used up all their benefits. “Focus like a laser on the economy” Yup.

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Hey all my conned friends….avoiding hypocrisy is my intent…I absolutely understand why you would take a pass on the SOTU, as much as I tried to watch bush, nausea is never pleasant so I totally get it, but at least I tried. Obama gave a great american union speech, one that 47% seem to reject out right without a listen.
In a democracy majority rules and you should let this man have his due. You don’t have to like it, just sit back and watch because if he really is the disaster that all of you portend here day in and day out, then the democrats will be cooked for the next decade. So, c’mon people, let the good times roll.
Whether you hate obama or not, it was a really cool strategy he laid out, quite fair and balanced.
Nanny state? Hogwash.
We the people choose our course and not too many people have 40 acres and a mule to tend to. It’s a 24/7 global, high tech world out there. No, I don’t think in terms of nanny, more like a kind uncle clearing some openings. Once through to the right path, I’m on my own. With a progressive civil society health care for all and social security solid. That’s all we ask.

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indigo @ 6:18. Great answer. When you can’t debate someone, start throwing insults.

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The only reason the UN even exists is because a couple of their leaders chose to appease Hitler and their countries got over run with Nazis.

Hell of a solid organization they are.

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For starters, both you and MarkV went out of your way to insult md, HD and others here who questioned AGW and Evolution the other day.

Because, as he pointed out, it’s extreme arrogance to think you’re that smart. If you have an incomplete grasp of a complex subject you end up in the basket with loons popping shark cartilage pills.

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“When global warming and its man-made causes are proved beyond doubt”

You are aware that is an impossibility….right?

The earth is over 4 billion years old (so think the scientists), and has been going through natural cycles the entire time.

Now, along comes man and his arrogance and he thinks he can take a very small fraction of that time and come up with what he thinks is the natural cycle vs the man made contribution to that natural cycle, after all we had a few hundred or thousand years to make the comparison…..right?

There will always be doubt indigo….always.

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So Bruno insults others as he tells them they insult others

How righteous of him.

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“They simply lack the class to show that kind of honesty.”

Your statement is your opinion and not a fact. You, on the other hand, are apparently educated far beyond your intelligence and have NO class.

Walter Kerr’s statement should have directed at you when he said, “”He had delusions of adequacy.”

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“Because, as he pointed out, it’s extreme arrogance to think you’re that smart.”

Actually, just the opposite.

I’m just smart enough to understand that everything I believe may be wrong, and my time here is used trying to get others to understand that.

It’s how beliefs work…….

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Another tax maneuver.

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“Scrivener–I haven’t seen you here on the blog before, and don’t know your political orientation, but I think that I’ve laid out plenty of reasons to keep an open mind regarding Climate Change, Global Warming, or whatever the nom-du-jour is.”

Lifelong republican, somewhat moderate. I tend to agree with you. I believe climate change/global warming is cyclical and not man-made. I think it’s a tool of the left to try to leverage political advantage. From my long-time reading of MarkV, it seems he will argue in circles ad nauseum even when confronted with solid facts to dispute his assertions. He never lets up on Kyle, especially if he feels Obama has been insulted in some way, but he’s oblivious to the nastiness from his side. Hypocrisy is one of my pet peeves.

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repubs keep trotting out the B team….jindal (now having popularity problems in la) and rubio….and the knucklehead from tx cruz is really going to do wonders for the party…as in wonder what happened to the party

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I believe climate change/global warming is cyclical and not man-made.

It’s certainly caused by nature, but that doesn’t mean the current climate change isn’t anthropogenic. Floods are a natural occurrence too, that doesn’t mean there are no floods caused by human activity.

Also, if it’s flooding, you usually deal with it, not spend a bunch of time yakking about how natural floods are and they just, y’know, happen.

Republicans had to be dragged kicking and screaming to acknowledge the uncontroversial fact it’s getting hotter. Now the same people are hemming and hawing and not showing the slightest bit of embarrassment for being denalist dumbos.

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If you have an incomplete grasp of a complex subject

The irony of that statement, AquaGirl, is that not one Lib here presented a shred of evidence to support their conclusions today, including you. In the end, you are accepting on faith what others are telling you. Which is ok, as long as you identify it as such. Which is all that md, HD, et.al. said the other day regarding their own opinions. But for some reason they were scorned. Apparently your faith is so much more valuable than their faith……..Not.

MarkV @ 7:06–The difference is that I can back my opinions up with solid reasoning and plenty of links, as I have today. Over on your side, we never got past the blind appeals to authority.

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In the end, you are accepting on faith what others are telling you. Which is ok, as long as you identify it as such.

That’s oversimplifying the matter. I accept lots of things at face value, we all do. I pretty much drive without wondering if every bridge I cross is going to collapse. Sometimes civil engineers eff up and they do collapse, but that’s not common. So in that sense I do accept the word of civil engineers on faith.

What I DON’T do is decide I know more about designing bridges than the guy who spent years at Tech learning all the details.

There is no way in hell I would trust my life to what I learned on teh interwebz vs. the opinion of 6000 engineers. That would be arrogant, insane, and just plain stupid.

BTW, cherry-picking stuff and applying it like a Pollack painting is a basic fallacy. When you commit errors in very basic thinking processes, why would anyone think you’re smarter than the Climatologists?

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My take on “Global Warming” is this, I believe the world is getting warmer and has been for at least the last 200 years, at least. How much is a cyclical change and how much is man made, I don’t know and don’t claim to. They’ve only been keeping weather records in most places since the late 19th century, so this is in its infancy, really. Regardless of that, I think we need to keep the world as clean as we can. My thinking is come up with whatever emission standards you deem necessary and fine the hell out of those who break them (or whatever action is deemed appropriate). My problem was with Cap and Trade. In my opinion, that was nothing more than a shell game. On the one hand, it would allow some to buy their way out of complying with regulations and on the other, it’s just a way for some folks to make a whole lot of money, shuffling paper. We’ve had a enough of shuffling worthless pieces of paper around to last us quite a while, in my opinion.

On compliance, if fines didn’t work, why not revoke the corporate charters of the offending companies? Corporations are registered with the states and historically they were granted charters by the state. If a charter is granted it can be revoked. Now, of course, you don’t want to revoke charters on everybody who happens to be out of compliance but it would be something to think about in a worse case scenario.

Anyhow that’s my 2¢, and it has been for a long, long time.

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Aquagirl

There were people in Germany in the thirties and early forties that trusted the authorities to provide a good warm shower after a long train ride. You gotta always be cynical and question peoples motives.

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I guess the libs missed the part about sea levels rising for the last 400,000 years or so, which is a lot longer than they’ve been around. But, hey, I guess if you can attempt to perpetuate your governmental power and further your pointless, parasitical existence by latching on to and scare mongering a naturally occurring phenomena, at the expense of others, like everything a liberal does, more power to ya.

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“It’s certainly caused by nature, but that doesn’t mean the current climate change isn’t anthropogenic.”

Doesn’t mean it is either……from the head of the BEST Project on warming in response to claims that warming has not leveled off for the past 13 years:

“Yesterday Prof Muller insisted that neither his claims that there has not been a standstill, nor the graph, were misleading because the project had made its raw data available on its website, enabling others to draw their own graphs.

However, he admitted it was true that the BEST data suggested that world temperatures have not risen for about 13 years. But in his view, this might not be ‘statistically significant’, although, he added, it was equally possible that it was.”

Notice that last sentence and especially the words “might not” and “equally possible”…..does that sound like a scientific conclusion?

And for the true “believers”, I’m guessing I’ll hear yes……

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Not looking forward to V-day this year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aKgKHmZ9WI

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Compared to my childhood, it’s definitely warmer overall,

I base my opinion on it getting warmer on what I’ve seen in my own lifetime, what my grandparents told me (they were born in the 1890’s-1900’s) and reading family diaries from the mid 19th century. The common thread all the way through is that it’s not as cold as it used to be. I’ve read a diary from about 1859-60, where a snow is mentioned as “a big snow like we used to get”. The same man also killed hogs, most anytime of the year. By the early 20th century, that was curtailed to mainly in the fall. If I was going to do it now, I’d probably wait for the dead of winter.

And, of course, we do have the historical record of 1816 “the Year without a Summer” and the “Little Ice Age” app 1300-1850.

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Bruno @ 7:30 pm

You are not only an ignorant, as you have shown in the discussion of global warming, but quite clearly also a hypocrite, as you have demonstrated now and before. Just wallow in both.

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Aquagirl

I completely agree you should always be cynical but there’s a point where cynicism turns into crazy.

I agree with that, but for everyone who is crazy cynical, there are 3 or 4, who are lazy gullible. Too many just hear enough experts talking about settled science (oxymoron) and then we hear “they say” everyone agrees that man made GW is real.

Lack of intellectual curiosity trumps cynicism unfortunately. No one knows for sure what is happening with the warming, and those who admit that we need much more studies and observations are the ones on the right course.

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This is why you should always be skeptical of what the libs believe -

Global warming causing Antarctic ice to expand

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This graph shows that the trend of the last decade is absolutely flat, with no increase at all – though the levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere have carried on rising relentlessly.

‘This is nowhere near what the climate models were predicting,’ Prof Curry said. ‘Whatever it is that’s going on here, it doesn’t look like it’s being dominated by CO2.’

“In fact, she added, in the wake of the unexpected global warming standstill, many climate scientists who had previously rejected sceptics’ arguments were now taking them much more seriously.

They were finally addressing questions such as the influence of clouds, natural temperature cycles and solar radiation – as they should have done, she said, a long time ago.”

Dr Curry has also written several posts about the ongoing validity of our monitoring stations and then brings up the excellent point that we are comparing data to stations from the early 1900’s, which we all know were top notch state of the art machines (sarc)……….

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MarkV: You are not only an ignorant, as you have shown in the discussion of global warming, but quite clearly also a hypocrite, as you have demonstrated now and before. Just wallow in both.

MarkV–If you follow my posts, my blog friendships have nothing to do with political views. Some of my best e-friends have been flaming liberals, and some of my worst e-enemies have been conservatives. My dislike and mistreatment of you is based strictly on the fact that you’re a jerk. You don’t have an ability to think on your own, yet are quick to vilify anyone who doesn’t buy your pre-packaged conclusions.

Rafe: Someone smarter than me once said we made the mistake of believing that history started the day you were born, and the only place on earth is where you live.

Someone even smarter than that once said that all politics is local. BTW, very refreshing to hear your attitude toward Science. Richard Feynman would be proud. If you haven’t read it, his biography, entitled “Genius”, is extremely interesting. The author, James Gleick, took the time to familiarize himself with the Physics in order to tell more of the real story.

http://www.amazon.com/Genius-Life-Science-Richard-Feynman/dp/0679747044/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360807162&sr=8-1&keywords=richard+feynmann+genius

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And aqua, if you end up doing the research and happen to stumble on Dr Curry’s website, you may notice that she states that she made all those statements in The Mail article……imagine that.

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Rafe @ 9:01–In addition to the regular oceanic cycles, there are also long-term cycles involving the sun that we don’t fully understand either. As I’m sure you’re well aware, the leap from “correlation” to “causation” is a large one, and always subject to revision.

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Interesting that you mention PDO’s and AMO’s Rafe:

http://judithcurry.com/2012/10/14/pause-discussion-thread/

Which is also where Aqua can find the truth….

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Which is also where Aqua can find the truth….

Unfortunately, md, there are none so blind as those who refuse to see. Aqua and many others here (all Libs, coincidentally), have clearly stated that they trust the “experts”, and aren’t going to look into anything on their own. Which is their right, of course. I just wish they would show a little more respect to those who do have legitimate questions. Pretty humorous that the same crowd liked to claim that the skeptics just don’t know anything about Science. As I get older, I’m doing better at accepting life’s little ironies that way.

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Air…Air
Hit me in the face
I run faster
(faster, faster, faster, faster)
Faster into the air
(I say to myself)
What is happening to my skin?
Where is that protection that I needed?
Air can hurt you too
Air can hurt you too
Some people say not to worry about the air
Some people never had experience with…

Air…Air

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Heh, I always laugh at the warnings required to be included in the instructions of product manufacturers, by the liberals, because us simple people would never be able to figure them out on our own.

I think it has more to do with attempting to feign off frivolous lawsuits, which is likely futile.

Just for you, Aesop:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bKW7JkHKm8

Everyone is trying to get to the bar.
The name of the bar, the bar is called heaven.
The band in heaven plays my favorite song.
They play it once again, they play it all night long.

Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens.
Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens.

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Bruno @9:00 pm
“If you follow my posts, my blog friendships have nothing to do with political views.”

Bruno,

Now you are proving you have hardly any mind left at all. In all my discussion with you about global warming I have never accused you of basing you arguments on politics.

You are the one who has shown no ability to think. You have not made a single rational argument for your opinions, other than referring to another scientist. You have exhibited a hypocrisy by accusing people of the sins you have been committing.

Most of all, you are a bragger. You have such a high opinion of yourself that you do not see that you are making a fool of yourself, again and again.

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“Good to see that the comments on Kyles blog keeps up with numbskulls next door.”"

That’s because half of the traffic likes to cross the street: both kyle and jay are more clever than their opponents (critics) think. It’s always right in front of you, just like that fastball and when you do make contact? Sweet!

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aesop@10:02

Interesting….what makes you think you’re any better? Perception versus reality it’s a gas, gas, gas!

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Another sailing song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6M4wsU6VJU

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A little blues, a little country and a good bit of jazz/swing, all in the same song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz_D_52JmAk

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For sailing songs I was always partial to this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtxmgBYlrTs

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“Unfortunately, md, there are none so blind as those who refuse to see. Aqua and many others here (all Libs, coincidentally), have clearly stated that they trust the “experts”, and aren’t going to look into anything on their own.”

Which is interesting in it’s own right as Dr Curry is a professor and Chair of the School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences at the Georgia Institute of Technology.

Guess one doesn’t have to be an expert to hold that esteemed position over at Tech huh…..

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I just stared at him and said ” I can’t play that song, it’s gay!” He said play it!

LMFAO @ sailfish.

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A little blues, a little country and a good bit of jazz/swing, all in the same song.

HD–You trying to build me back up with “This Ol’ Cowboy” ??

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Trick of the Tail and And Then There Were Three were the two best Genesis albums for my money…………..

And this song isn’t from either. It ain’t even Genesis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=an-RGj46xPU&feature=related

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Trick of the Tail and And Then There Were Three were the two best Genesis albums for my money…………..

No argument there, although “The Wind and the Wuthering” was good also. On their later albums, they might have only one or two good songs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLOPj4LlrCg

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUFw5Qi0pjU

Time to say goodnight.

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To hear these clowns trumpet Bushs’ budget adds to the Repub. hypocrisy. The Bush/Cheney wars were left off the books. Even us elementary students knew that. As for Rubio; everything he’s against(medicare, government assistance on school loans, S.S.I.,etc); he and his family were beneficiaries of.

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Put Our President Bush’s two wars “on the books” and Obozo’s deficits still dwarf Bush’s.

BTW, you know that Obozo’s failed stimulus was off the books too, right?

Don’t fear facts.

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It makes sense that this would be the hovel of climate change deniers.
This is also where Mitt won the Presidency…

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