Stock gains don’t make up for continued sluggishness in economy, job market
The Dow Jones Industrial Average today briefly touched the 14000 mark, before falling slightly. As I write, it’s hovering right around that level, the first time it’s done so since late 2007. The broader S&P 500 is at a five-year high, about 3 percent off its all-time peak in October 2007. The Nasdaq is at a 10-year high, though it’s significantly lower than its tech-bubble peak. In all, though, these major indices finally are back to roughly where they were before the housing crash and Great Recession (as long as we don’t adjust them for inflation, that is).
Yet, earlier today, the Bureau of Labor Statistics announced the unemployment rate had ticked upward to 7.9 percent even though more people had stopped looking for work than found a job. At January’s rate of job growth (157,000 net jobs created), it would take until at least 2025 to regain pre-recession employment levels. At the rate for all of 2012 (an upwardly revised 181,000), it would take “only” until 2022, a decade and a half after employment peaked.
And yesterday, the Commerce Department said the economy shrank in the fourth quarter of 2012, the first negative quarter since mid-2009. The economy is an estimated 14 percent smaller than it would have been if it had grown since 2008 at the long-term average of 3.1 percent a year. That’s some $2.25 trillion of economic production that never came into existence.
The reason for continued market advances in the face of sluggish economic news might be summarized by this quote from the Wall Street Journal:
“Any not-bad news is helping this market,” said Jonathan Corpina, senior managing partner at Meridian Equity Partners, a New York brokerage. “If we get great news, good news, or okay news, it’s still going to make our screens green.”
“Not-bad” is not exactly indicative of a boom. If this quarter were to repeat last quarter’s performance, the above numbers are where the Obama Recovery would have left us: barely back to zero for investors, still well below it for job-seekers and economic growth.
This is the reality wrought by the primary economic policy of the past four years — trying to jump-start the private sector via government spending and monetary expansion. All the spending and expansion hasn’t translated into robust private-sector growth. Four years later, there’s little reason to believe a boom is just around the corner.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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557 comments Add your comment
md
February 3rd, 2013
12:07 pm
“I am not helped, and neither are you, by huge numbers of Americans being unemployed.”
So it somehow makes sense to decimate the military and put even more in the unemployment line??
indigo
February 3rd, 2013
12:20 pm
md
How does employing Americans instead of “skilled foreign workers” decimate the Military?
Or, are you talking about the Military-Industrial-Complex?
War is their business. Win, lose or draw, they always come out a profit winner.
I’m against useless wars, like Iraq and Afghanistan, where only the Military-Industrial Complex profits.
Are you?
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 3rd, 2013
12:36 pm
indigo buys her shoes from China but thinks companies should buy their labor from Americans.
Hypocrite.
Johnny boy says
February 3rd, 2013
12:39 pm
Arguing with a fool…….
Johnny boy says
February 3rd, 2013
12:42 pm
Everybody: Take your meds and go home. You are wasting valuable breath.
indigo
February 3rd, 2013
12:54 pm
Barry
If no companies in America make shoes anymore, should I just go barefooted?
“companies should buy their labor from America”
Yes. How do you think millions and millions of illegals got into America? Cheap labor, that’s how. And, they are here to stay as more and more of them pour in, thanks to Businesses wanting cheap labor.
Do you think that’s a good thing?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
February 3rd, 2013
1:00 pm
Johnny boy, if you don’t like the discussion, your only choice is to leave.
No one is forcing you to visit here.
@@
February 3rd, 2013
1:07 pm
indigo:
If it had been up to me, we NEVER would have gone into either Iraq or Afghanistan.
We went into Afghanistan to get Bin Laden.
Are you now saying that going into Pakistan to pursue Bin Laden was the wrong thing to do?
Jes wundrin’.
According to today’s paper, American Business is pushing the Govt. to allow up to 300,000 skilled immigrants into the Country.
And?
A bipartisan group of U.S. senators, with the tacit approval of President Barack Obama, is proposing to boost the annual visa quota to 115,000.–AJC
indigo
February 3rd, 2013
1:19 pm
@@
Obviously, we went into Afghanistan not only to get Bin Laden. Otherwise, why are we still there till the middle of 2014? If fact, Bin Laden was actually found in Pakistan. I supported the HUNT for Bin Laden, not a 10+ year war in Afghanistan.
American Business is, as usual, putting profit before patriotism. I don’t care who supports this, it’s wrong.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
February 3rd, 2013
1:43 pm
American businesses have a patriotic duty to STAY in business first and foremost, Indigo. Outside of that, YOU are not the arbiter of who or what is patriotic or not.
@@
February 3rd, 2013
1:47 pm
indigo:
When candidate Obama was declaring Afghanistan to be the “right” war…the war to get Bin Laden, the left was behind him 100%. I can remember telling them (here) that Obama wasn’t in Afghanistan but rather Pakistan, a sovereign nation.
The silence was deafening.
When Obama ordered HIS surge into Afghanistan, there was no one to protest. Afghanistan holds no strategic interest for the U.S. other than to limit terrorism. The chances of radical extremists taking over the Pakistani government is next to nil. Their extremists are of a tribal nature and confined to the northwest territory. Pashtuns (radical extremists) make up about 14% of the population. Punjabi (non-radical) 44%.
Iraq, at least, held strategic interest for the U.S. Its geographic location and oil.
Afghanistan is little more than a wasteland…a sandpit too vast for anyone to conquer.
CC
February 3rd, 2013
1:51 pm
The AJC has gone absolutely nuts with the advertising! I can’t decipher whether they sell and e-subscription only (as they don’t deliver where I live). I’d gladly pay for that just to avoid the hassle of their ad war on bloggers!
Hillbilly D
February 3rd, 2013
1:54 pm
In Eisenhower’s “Military-Industrial Complex” speech, which was really a farewell address, he also said this
Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.
The prospect of domination of the nation’s scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present
and is gravely to be regarded.
Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite.
It is the task of statesmanship to mold, to balance, and to integrate these and other forces, new and old, within the principles of our democratic system — ever aiming toward the supreme goals of our free society.
Nobody remembers that part, though. And in actually, the military-industrial part of the speech didn’t get that much play at the time. That came later.
http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html
indigo
February 3rd, 2013
2:12 pm
Tiberius
American Business is made up of citizens, and they have just as much a duty to be patriotic as anyone else.
When they put profit above patriotism by hiring foreign instead of American workers, I most definitely DO have the right
to call them unpatriotic.
indigo
February 3rd, 2013
2:15 pm
@@ “little more than a wasteland”
And, we should have long since been out of there.
Years from now, someone may come up to you or me and say “please tell me what my loved one died for in Afghanistan”.
I dread that day becuase I’m afraid the correct answer will be “nothing”.
Hillbilly D
February 3rd, 2013
2:58 pm
I didn’t realize that some states have estate/inheritance taxes.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/where-not-to-die-in-2013-182307758.html
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
February 3rd, 2013
3:00 pm
Do you get anything right,Indigo?
Never said nor implied you didn’t have the right. Stupidity is protected under the 1st amendment as well.
I said you aren’t the arbiter of who is or isn’t patriotic.
And you still aren’t.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
February 3rd, 2013
3:05 pm
Hillbilly, try getting that part of Ike’s speech through the heads of some of the liberals on here when discussing global warming grants.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 3rd, 2013
3:10 pm
indigo
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I was watching something on Discover or Science the other day. The good news was those low tech assembly jobs that we sent to China, Thailand, Vietnam, etc are coming home soon.
The bad news is that they are going to be done robotically once they return. We are on the cusp of having robots that do most all assembly jobs and once a line is established, the hourly operating costs will decrease to less than the wages in these undeveloped countries. Throw in the import fees the manufacturers pay to have the goods shipped back in and it will be a significant savings for industry. We may wind up doing the assembly work for the Chinese.
Sad, but these low skilled jobs are going the way of the dodo and just as Obama throws open the doors to millions of low skilled Hispanics. There are going to be less and less employees in the USA. What are we going to do? Only time will tell, but fighting yesterdays problems gets us nowhere.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 3rd, 2013
3:16 pm
indigo
One thing we agree on is that we should be out of Afghanistan. The purpose of invading was to root out the Al Queda training camps and to prevent the government from being an al Queda puppet. Now that al Queda has moved into Yemen, Somali, and Mali and other N Africa countries, I don’t see the need in us staying there. Somehow we should arrange for Karzai to get what is coming to him before we leave, however.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 3rd, 2013
3:22 pm
indigo: If no companies in America make shoes anymore, should I just go barefooted?
—————————-
But there ARE companies that make shoes in America. You just don’t want to pay the folks who make your shoes what they’re worth.
Sociopathic predator.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 3rd, 2013
3:29 pm
I didn’t realize that some states have estate/inheritance taxes.
That is what makes those blue states so wonderful for folks like Finn, the blue state admirer.
Another good reason for living in Dixie. I was surprised at TN, the article didn’t get into what their rate and effective levels were, but they should be ashamed.
Johnny boy says
February 3rd, 2013
3:42 pm
Wonder if there is a single redeeming bit of dialogue in here that accomplishes something near a benefit……..
indigo
February 3rd, 2013
3:49 pm
Barry
Actually, you don’t know where I buy my shoes.
indigo
February 3rd, 2013
3:52 pm
Tiberius
To “call them” something is certainly close enough to “decide”.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism
indigo
February 3rd, 2013
3:54 pm
Tiberius
Don’t know where that “socialism” came from.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arbiter
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
February 3rd, 2013
4:09 pm
Defend all you want, Indigo, but patriotism is not something that is judged in that fashion.
Which is why you fail the test for being an arbiter of same.
Do you get anything right?
Ever??
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
February 3rd, 2013
4:11 pm
Johnny boy, please answer this question:
Why are you here?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
February 3rd, 2013
4:12 pm
Enter your comments here
md
February 3rd, 2013
4:27 pm
“I’m against useless wars, like Iraq and Afghanistan, where only the Military-Industrial Complex profits.”
Except this is statement represents a fallacy in reality.
Who profits? All of us do……
Who works for this industry? We do….thousands of us.
Who are the owners of this industry? That would be us…..(check your 401k).
The statement is a talking point but does not actually reflect the reality.
JDW
February 3rd, 2013
4:36 pm
The issue with the 300,000 new visa’s is not so much cost as it is skill set. Bottom line is we don’t have enough skilled technical works. Rafe is quite correct, the days of high paying manufacturing jobs for high school educations is past.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 3rd, 2013
4:51 pm
Hilarity ensues as Twitter users caption and Photoshop Obama’s shooting photo
http://twitchy.com/2013/02/02/hilarity-ensues-as-twitter-users-caption-and-photoshop-obamas-shooting-photo/
indigo
February 3rd, 2013
5:25 pm
md – 4:27
Even if that were true, I won’t support useless wars where our people die for nothing.
Will you?
indigo
February 3rd, 2013
5:27 pm
Tiberius – 4:09
I, like you, certainly do have the right to be the arbiter of my own opinions.
And, when it comes to who’s patriotic, and who is not, its everyone’s business.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
February 3rd, 2013
5:50 pm
What qualifications do you possess which makes you determine a concept such as “patriotism “, Indigo?
indigo
February 3rd, 2013
6:03 pm
Tiberius – 5:50
I possess reasonably good intelligence and have a good well rounded education.
It really is not rocket science.
indigo
February 3rd, 2013
6:08 pm
Tiberius – “Do you get anything right? Ever?
What a concidence!!!
I was thinking exactly the same thing about your posts.
Hillbilly D
February 3rd, 2013
6:09 pm
Rafe @ 3:29
If you click on the link, right under the map on that article, it’ll show you state by state, the top rate and exemption amounts.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
February 3rd, 2013
6:24 pm
Intelligence is not as difficult a concept to determine as patriotism, Indigo.
And while you may feel your education invests you with intelligence, based on your posts, that is certainly not the case.
I suspect you could not describe patriotism in your own words, given its multiple complexities based on differing circumstances.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
February 3rd, 2013
6:27 pm
Btw, I get on getalife’s case on this very issue when he starts calling groups unpatriotic as well.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 3rd, 2013
6:27 pm
During an appearance on al-Jazeera in 2009, a caller asked him about “the perception and the reality” that America is “the world’s bully” – and Hagel told viewers that he agreed.
The leader of our armed forces, brought to you by the dummycrats, of course.
indigo
February 3rd, 2013
6:29 pm
Tiberius – 6:24
But you, of course, could easily describe it.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
February 3rd, 2013
6:40 pm
This is why you are constantly wrong,Indigo, your insistence on assuming things that are not based in reality.
Why would you think I would rail against your inability to define such a complex concept if I didn’t apply the standard to myself?
Your incorrect assumptions about people you have no clue about exposes you to ridicule.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 3rd, 2013
6:47 pm
The Doritos goat was pretty funny.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 3rd, 2013
7:40 pm
Hillbilly
Thanks, I missed that option. Tennessee repealing theirs effective in 2016. I guess they came to their senses and realized that this would be a definite turnoff for retirees looking to relocate.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 3rd, 2013
7:48 pm
49′ers choke!
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 3rd, 2013
8:06 pm
More on the use of robots. America is in for some severe employment problems as robots take over more and more jobs.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f6f19228-6bbc-11e2-a17d-00144feab49a.html#axzz2Jt72Tegn
JDW
February 3rd, 2013
8:24 pm
Well pretty boring first half and Madonna she ain’t…maybe the second half will live up to the hype.
md
February 3rd, 2013
8:29 pm
A bit ironic that the “one nation” commercial was brought to us by an Italian owned company……
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 3rd, 2013
8:32 pm
Well, you can kiss the 49′ers arse goodbye.