In defense of Georgia’s tax-credit scholarships
This month the Wingfield household, like millions of others across America, has received a growing number of tax documents. Among them are forms certifying that we gave $50 to this charity or $100 to that one, allowing us to reduce what we owe in taxes.
What neither we nor the IRS will receive is official documentation that our church converted X number of non-believers into Christians, or that a charity we supported decreased poverty or sexual exploitation by a quantifiable amount. Or that everyone who benefited from our donations earned less than a certain amount of income.
Yet, similar bits of data are being requested of one of the kinds of non-profits we could have supported but didn’t: Georgia’s student scholarship organizations.
These SSOs accept donations from Georgia taxpayers, who can then reduce their state income taxes by an equal amount — up to a limit for all donors of about $50 million per year, or one-quarter of 1 percent of all revenues the state expects to collect this year. They then give the money to private schools, which in turn award scholarships to students.
Many claims are made about these so-called tax-credit scholarships. The most easily dismissed is that this is the state’s money.
“The United States Supreme Court ruled, clearly, that this is not tax money,” says Rep. Earl Ehrhart, the Powder Springs Republican who sponsored the 2008 bill that authorized SSOs and these tax credits. He refers to the court’s 2011 ruling in two cases involving Arizona’s tax-credit scholarships.
Indeed, the opinion authored by Justice Anthony Kennedy states: “When Arizona taxpayers choose to contribute to STOs [the equivalent of Georgia’s SSOs], they spend their own money, not money the state has collected from respondents or from other taxpayers.”
Given that ruling, it’s not clear Georgia has to report anything about donations to SSOs — any more than it should report how much Georgians give to churches, synagogues or mosques, groups that fight hunger and poverty, groups that promote the arts or conservation, or any others.
Still, Ehrhart has filed a bill this year, HB 140, that would, among other things, raise the annual cap to $80 million but require public reporting of some aggregated information about SSOs: the number and value of donations made by individuals and corporations, as well as the number and value of scholarships awarded.
That last bit of data could help prove what SSO advocates have long argued: that these scholarships actually save tax money, because the average award amount is less than what public schools spend per pupil.
Scholarship recipients’ family income is another matter. Ehrhart says the program “was never sold” as one meant to benefit only low-income students, though he argues they are bound to be the greatest beneficiaries.
“You don’t give [scholarships] to rich kids,” says Ehrhart, who serves as the unpaid head of an SSO called Faith First Georgia. “Why would you take your limited money and do that?”
And, getting back to the original point, means-testing would represent a level of scrutiny not applied to other charities and their donors.
Speaking of scrutiny, a newer complaint about tax-credit scholarships is that some private schools receiving money from SSOs have policies, for religious reasons, that prohibit gay students.
But as the Supreme Court recognized, these donations are private gifts, not public money. There is no conflict here with public discrimination policies any more than when Georgians make tax-deductible gifts to other religious entities with similar views.
Barring these tax credits based on some private schools’ faith-based guidelines for students could, however, set a precedent for attacking the tax-deductibility of all gifts to religious groups.
As for claims that some donors and private schools are finding ways to make sure contributions are earmarked for specific students, including the donors’ own children, Ehrhart points out that practice is illegal — and encourages anyone with knowledge of law-breaking by specific SSOs, donors or schools to contact their district attorney.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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293 comments Add your comment
Gimme Gimme Gimme
January 31st, 2013
5:30 am
Kyle is up early today!
Wilbur
January 31st, 2013
6:03 am
I gave to an SSO for a school that provides services to kids with autism. There was nothing that tells me that any particular child benefitted. I love this program and hope it’s expanded. It’s good for kids and good for Georgia.
The educrats that oppose all change might get a clue and stop being obstuctionists for all change.
cellophane
January 31st, 2013
6:21 am
If it is as simple as you say, Kyle, then why are the SSOs even needed? Let these private schools operate thir own nonprofit foundations to collect deductible donations, just like other charities. Many schools already do this.
Georgia , The "New Mississippi"
January 31st, 2013
6:56 am
Our GOP Johnny Reb Legislature’s low morals and misguided value systems will keep our state on the collision course for implosion.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
January 31st, 2013
6:59 am
Lower cost with better performance than the public education system – no wonder the libs are screeching. That’s one of their fiefdoms under attack.
Ronnie Raygun
January 31st, 2013
7:25 am
Given your examples at the beginning of your editorial, you don’t know the difference between a tax DEDUCTION and a tax CREDIT. You could always take a deduction for donating to a private, non-profit school. What other type of charitable donation do you get a tax credit for again?
BTW: I know the IRS is a big boogeyman to Cons, but it’s a STATE tax credit and has nothing to do with the IRS.
Thomas Heyward Jr
January 31st, 2013
7:30 am
I’m all for helping children escape government schools .
I don’t even think that government should be involved in our children’s education unless one freely chooses to accept that but……………………….isn’t a tax CREDIT different than a tax DEDUCTION?
.
The proper way to do this would be for anyone that pays the tuition to a private school should get a tax credit or deduction for that amount.
All other donations should be considered a charitble donation.
middle of the road
January 31st, 2013
7:37 am
Ronnie Raygun has it correct – if these are tax CREDITS (as I believe they are), then the taxpayer incurs no penalty whatsoever in choosing to give. His tax goes down the exact amount that he donates. It essentially allowing the taxpayer to choose where his taxes go to. Why not have the exact same thing for education, for example, or for prisons? I would like to earmark a set amount of my taxes for prisons.
The other complaint I have heard is that some of these people making donations are doing so to their child’s school, which funnels the money back to their child’s education – basically a scheme to allow people to designate that their state taxes be used to pay for their kid’s private education.
A Simple Man
January 31st, 2013
7:43 am
As a far right winger, I’m against the government involvement at all. I’m with Cellophane and Heyward Jr. on this one. Let people give to the school of their choice and then let them have their own individual tax returns reflect their donation, tuition and whatever. Don’t send the money to Atlanta or Washington or any other government agency.
independent thinker
January 31st, 2013
7:49 am
One more example of the clowns under the gold dome wasting revenue on right wing religious causes. How many public safety officers or teachers could that 50 million pay for?What’s next -tax credits for donating to anti-abortion causes?How about 50 mllion dollars credit for arming the state militia?
Henne
January 31st, 2013
7:50 am
I thought this was a way for people to deduct their tuition from their state income tax bill. Is that not right? Pretty sure Bookman says it is.
Tom
January 31st, 2013
7:55 am
Explain the run-around where kids that have already been going to the private school enroll in their PUBLIC school (where they will never attend) in order to qualify to receive this ’scholarship’ to their private school.
People need to go back and read the NYT article.
(and don’t get me started on the kooks refusing to teach actual science in their “science” classes)
indigo
January 31st, 2013
7:59 am
“you don’t give scholarships to rich kids”
We do in Georgia.
Thomas Heyward Jr
January 31st, 2013
8:09 am
independent thinker
January 31st, 2013
7:49 am
What’s next -tax credits for donating to anti-abortion causes?
—————————————————————————————-
And why not?
Money is stolen from us to pay for abortions regardless of how strongly we feel about them.
That would seem fair.
SBinF
January 31st, 2013
8:20 am
“Lower cost with better performance than the public education system – no wonder the libs are screeching.”
You know, empirical data on the subject shows just the opposite of what you say….to know such would require reading a number of peer reviewed studies published by leftist college professors though.
I’m assuming you don’t read very much.
d
January 31st, 2013
8:23 am
I get very leery any time I see the state offering credits. If they want to give you a deduction for a charitable donation, fine, but this credit is nothing more than a thinly designed veil to harm Gerogia’s 1.6 million public school children by reducing the money available to them and sending it (in whatever manner) to unaccountable schools.
Bob
January 31st, 2013
8:36 am
SBinF, I would like to see that data. My kid went to Catholic school and her tuition was close to half what the per pupil spending is in APS.
Bob
January 31st, 2013
8:37 am
SBinF, one more point, if you are correct then why do so many public school teachers send their kids to privates ?
rwcole
January 31st, 2013
8:40 am
And the party of me, me, me strikes again.
SBinF
January 31st, 2013
8:42 am
A quick Google search turns up a number of options, here is just one of them:
http://www.edline.com/uploads/pdf/PrivateSchoolsReport.pdf
Core Findings
The study found that low-income students from urban public high schools generally did as
well academically and on long-term indicators as their peers from private high schools, once
key family background characteristics were considered. In particular, the study determined
that when family background was taken into account, the following findings emerged:
1. Students attending independent private high schools, most types of parochial high
schools, and public high schools of choice performed no better on achievement tests
in math, reading, science, and history than their counterparts in traditional public
high schools.
2. Students who had attended any type of private high school ended up no more likely to
attend college than their counterparts at traditional public high schools.
3. Young adults who had attended any type of private high school ended up with no
more job satisfaction at age 26 than young adults who had attended traditional public high schools.
4. Young adults who had attended any type of private high school ended up no more
engaged in civic activities at age 26 than young adults who had attended traditional
public high schools.
This study did identify two exceptions to this general finding. The primary exception is that
students who attended independent private high schools had higher SAT scores than public school students, which gave independent school students an advantage in getting into
elite colleges. (These independent private schools enroll many students from affluent families and are often expensive and fairly elite themselves, with tuitions as high as $30,000 a
year.) This finding suggests that while these schools are no better at teaching the subject matter, they may provide students with test-taking skills that help them further their education,
or they may enroll students with higher IQs (aptitude tests like the SAT are a better measure of IQ than achievement tests are).
A second exception is that one special type of private school, Catholic schools run by
holy orders (such as Jesuit schools), did have some positive academic effects. There are
very few such schools, however; most Catholic schools are run by their diocese, not by
an order (Meyer, 2007).
————————————–
As to your second question, Bob, that’s completely anecdotal. My mom was a public school teacher, and I attended public schools and turned out just fine (I graduated from GT and am currently pursuing my master’s at the same institution). So again, anecdotes do not negate numbers.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
January 31st, 2013
8:49 am
SB – You are correct, I do not read left wing claptrap written by college professors. What’s the point? All you have to do is look at what is written by some columnists at the urinal and what is said by the current “president” of the United States to understand that things like the truth and cold hard facts matter not at all to your typical liberal. Do you want to know what is real or do you want to have something sung to you, affirming the life of folly in which you are being led around by the nose?
Plus, there are many things that cannot be measured but are outcomes that are plain to see. Is your kid being taught to be a mannered, thoughtful, responsible and respectful individual or is he being shown the ways of the in your face collective brutalization of this society and it’s culture?
Not everyone wants their kid to be a government dependent moron.
SBinF
January 31st, 2013
8:56 am
Right, so you admit that you won’t subscribe to facts and logic, if it runs counter to your world view.
You were probably one of the one’s declaring that Romney would win in a landslide, despite all the data to the contrary.
SBinF
January 31st, 2013
8:57 am
“Not everyone wants their kid to be a government dependent moron.”
Did you learn about ad hominem attacks or false dichotomies with your private school education?
Kyle Wingfield
January 31st, 2013
9:15 am
Ronnie Raygun @ 7:25: “Given your examples at the beginning of your editorial, you don’t know the difference between a tax DEDUCTION and a tax CREDIT.”
What I wrote: “Among them are forms certifying that we gave $50 to this charity or $100 to that one, allowing us to reduce what we owe in taxes.”
And then: “These SSOs accept donations from Georgia taxpayers, who can then reduce their state income taxes by an equal amount …”
See the difference? I phrased them differently because, in fact, I do know the difference between a deduction and a credit. Now here’s a question: Other than the ratio of the money given to the reduced tax payment, what’s the difference wrt this issue? Would it be all-OK for you if the Legislature simply changed it to a deduction, with a maximum allowable benefit that’s the same as the current credit?
Somehow, I think not.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
January 31st, 2013
9:15 am
SB – It’s a pretty well known fact that most public school curriculum is not geared towards the advancement of the student but is instead used to advance the agenda of the radical left wingers in charge of the school. Just look at any textbook. It’s wonderful that little Johny was able to correctly choose America as the villain in World War 2, give little Johny an A+.
However, this doesn’t mean that little Johny is “smart.”
SBinF
January 31st, 2013
9:19 am
“SB – It’s a pretty well known fact that most public school curriculum is not geared towards the advancement of the student but is instead used to advance the agenda of the radical left wingers in charge of the school. Just look at any textbook. It’s wonderful that little Johny was able to correctly choose America as the villain in World War 2, give little Johny an A+.”
And throw in a strawman too. Who in heavens names the U.S. as the villain in WWII?
Are you trolling me? I just posted some data that supports the argument that private schools are no better at educating students than public schools based on many standard metrics.
Mary Elizabeth
January 31st, 2013
9:20 am
All of the arguments put forth in Kyle Wingfield’s editorial are technically valid. However, something beyond the technical is going on with this scholarship movement.
I am old enough to remember the segregated South and I remember how private schools flourished, legally and technically, in that era in order that white kids would not have to go to school with black kids, and I also remember when Lester Maddox stood in the doorway of in his privately-owned restaurant, barring all black people from being patrons of his restaurant.
I am not stating that this scholarship movement is racist in intent, or even that it represents a simple black-white issue, today. However, I do believe that it is a back-handed way of enhancing private schools in Georgia, at the expense of public schools, which must educate all of Georgia’s students. For example, if a given contributor to the scholarship fund is able to reduce his state taxes by the $2,500. that he contributed to private school scholarships, then public money, in the form of state taxes designed to serve the common good, is further reduced by that same amount.
Kyle Wingfield
January 31st, 2013
9:23 am
middle of the road @ 7:37: “The other complaint I have heard is that some of these people making donations are doing so to their child’s school, which funnels the money back to their child’s education – basically a scheme to allow people to designate that their state taxes be used to pay for their kid’s private education.”
That’s illegal. This response goes for your question, too, Henne.
There are people who claim this is happening, but they never seem to have any details. If they do, then as I wrote in the column, they should contact their local prosecutor. Otherwise, I assume this is just another way for them to gin up opposition to a program they dislike for other reasons.
Kyle Wingfield
January 31st, 2013
9:25 am
d @ 8:23: Why is this not a charitable donation? And, because money is fungible, any measure that reduces revenues is, in theory, a way to reduce money available for education, or prisons, or health care, or what have you. If that’s your standard, you should oppose all deductions and credits.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
January 31st, 2013
9:29 am
SB – It was you who initiated this discussion, remember? Try to remain calm.
I, not too long ago, had a discussion with a recent college grad over the merits of the atomic bombing of Hiroshima. I use the term discussion loosely because this young man became enraged, like any typical liberal would, I quickly ended the discussion when it became apparent that no amount of reason was going to penetrate through the brainwashing. This kid had no idea of the crimes against humanity committed by Japan nor of any of the multitudes of estimates showing that the bombs saved some 900,000 lives.
There is a reason why America is ranked 27th in the world in education, it’s because we don’t have an education system. Why do we need immigrants to fill the high tech jobs?
Kyle Wingfield
January 31st, 2013
9:36 am
Mary Elizabeth @ 9:20: The tax credits are not directly linked to public education funding. So, if you want to analyze the credits in this manner, you’d have to assume that, of that $2,500, only about $1,250 would, in theory, have gone to public education. So, arguably, this contributor is ensuring that more of his money is being spent on education — in all forms — than if he didn’t take the credit.
But even that theory doesn’t tell the whole story: QBE funding is one of the few areas of the state budget not being cut this year. So, one might argue that, this year, a $1,000 donation to an SSO means a $1,000 net increase in funding for education in all forms.
Now, I’m sure you don’t see it this way, because I’m sure you consider only that lessons taught in public-school classrooms count as the “common good.” But do you not believe that society benefits from private-school educations as well? Don’t the recipients of those educations help to make goods, provide services and, yes, pay taxes? The actual common good wrt education is seeing that everyone gets the best education possible for them. For some people, and not only rich people, that best education possible will come from somewhere other than traditional public schools. If this program helps more people access the best education possible for them, then isn’t that serving the common good? Particularly if, by taking advantage of one of the scholarships funded by these programs, that student is educated at less of a cost to taxpayers? (And before someone brings up the overhead argument: Overhead — buildings, buses, utilities, etc. — is generally paid for by local tax revenues, which aren’t touched at all by this program.)
Kyle Wingfield
January 31st, 2013
9:37 am
Heading to the Capitol now. I’ll try to answer more questions as soon as I have a chance.
SBinF
January 31st, 2013
9:38 am
There is a good bit of scholarship on the atomic bombings in Japan coming out recently. The war was, in effect, already over and Japan was prepared to surrender. The U.S. dropped the bomb as a show of force to the Soviets.
If you’re interested, I can point you to some books on the subject. Something tells me though that you don’t do a lot of reading.
md
January 31st, 2013
9:38 am
“you don’t give scholarships to rich kids”
Why not? In the old days, scholarships were also rewards for doing well, regardless of how much money mommy and daddy had. The idea is to reward the student for making the right choices and excelling in school…….
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
January 31st, 2013
9:39 am
If there were no government schools, how would our children get their liberal indoctrination and learn to be loyal workers for the proletarian society? Who would buy the Prius, change out their light bulbs, and support the Democrats? That could be one answer to the Libs rabid support of the government schools, or it could be the ole envy gene kicking in. Could be, they are just envious of those, who grow up independent of government, able to think on their feet, and able to become successful, without a government program.
Education money collected by the State, should be given back to the parents, and the parents should pick the school their children attend. These intermediate steps all involve government, and are therefore subject to the inefficiency, mismanagement, waste, lobbying, and political machinations that are always present, when government is involved in the process.
We need to insulate our little crumb crunchers, as much as we can, from the harmful effects of government.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
January 31st, 2013
9:39 am
If there were no government schools, how would our children get their liberal indoctrination and learn to be loyal workers for the proletarian society? Who would buy the Prius, change out their light bulbs, and support the Democrats? That could be one answer to the Libs rabid support of the government schools, or it could be the ole envy gene kicking in. Could be, they are just envious of those, who grow up independent of government, able to think on their feet, and able to become successful, without a government program.
Education money collected by the State, should be given back to the parents, and the parents should pick the school their children attend. These intermediate steps all involve government, and are therefore subject to the inefficiency, mismanagement, waste, lobbying, and political machinations that are always present, when government is involved in the process.
We need to insulate our little crumb crunchers, as much as we can, from the harmful effects of government.
Bruno
January 31st, 2013
9:40 am
This kid had no idea of the crimes against humanity committed by Japan nor of any of the multitudes of estimates showing that the bombs saved some 900,000 lives.
Per the estimated lives saved by dropping the atomic bomb, that’s open to interpretation. With the invasion of Japan from the north by the Russkies underway already in 1945, many people feel that the end of the war was imminent. In fact, many feel that the bombs were detonated more as a warning to Russia than to hasten the end of the conflict with the Japs.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
January 31st, 2013
9:42 am
Sorry about the double post, never had that happen before. Usually the system catches those duplicate comments.
But, it is probably worth reading twice! Hah!
Kyle maybe you can pull one of them down?
Bruno
January 31st, 2013
9:43 am
Ooops–SBinF beat me to the punch @ 9:38. I’ll have to type more quickly next time.
md
January 31st, 2013
9:48 am
” The war was, in effect, already over and Japan was prepared to surrender.”
Yet Japan hadn’t told their enemies the news……..much like Vietnam, they were on their last legs too, and instead of finishing them off we quit and headed for home due to overwhelming propaganda back home……….
ad
January 31st, 2013
9:48 am
Kyle – “That’s illegal…contact your local prosecutor.”
You do know that people who do illegal things go to great lengths to cover them up so they won’t get caught and we have this statement from your own paper:
Parents, however, have received misleading information from program supporters, the SEF says, pointing to comments state Rep. David Casas, R-Lilburn, made during a seminar with private school parents in December 2009.
“You can take this chunk of money and be able to say, ‘I want this money to go to education, and not just education, I want it to go to the school of my choice, and maybe even more detailed — the student of my choice,’ ” Casas told the parents.
So, there are 2 issues. 1)Is the current law being violated? Based on the statement by Casas, it appears it may. and 2) Is it really constitutional? A different Supreme Court might realize that tax revenue lost through these credits, no matter how you spin it, funds schools that discriminate and transfers the tax burden for supporting public education to others.
You can call them tax credits, but they’re really just vouchers designed to further undermine public education, a conservative goal ever since the first portable building “Christian” schools went up in the days when Civil Rights laws began to be passed and enforced.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
January 31st, 2013
9:50 am
Monday morning quarterbacking is what passes for intellect nowadays, eh?
The largest and bloodiest American battle came at Okinawa, as the U.S. sought airbases for 3000 B-29 bombers and 240 squadrons of B-17 bombers for the intense bombardment Japan’s home islands in preparation for a full-scale invasion in late 1945. The Japanese, with 115,000 troops augmented by thousands of civilians on the heavily populated island, did not resist on the beaches—their strategy was to maximize the number of soldier and Marine casualties, and naval losses from Kamikaze attacks. After an intense bombardment the Americans landed on 1 April 1945 and declared victory on 21 June.[85] The supporting naval forces were the targets for 4,000 sorties, many by Kamikaze suicide planes. U.S. losses totaled 38 ships of all types sunk and 368 damaged with 4,900 sailors killed. The Americans suffered 75,000 casualties on the ground; 94% of the Japanese soldiers died along with many civilians.
I would have dropped that bomb to.
SBinF
January 31st, 2013
9:55 am
Monday morning quarterbacking?
So, basically you take issue with the entire study of history. Excellent. Aesop I find that you are a prime example for why we need widespread and easily available public education. A critical look at the past is a great thing.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
January 31st, 2013
9:59 am
When “the study of history” concludes that America was wrong, in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, yes, I take issue with it. Hate me, if you must.
SBinF
January 31st, 2013
10:01 am
Who said America was wrong?
History doesn’t evaluate based on right and wrong. Those are subjective measures, and true historians don’t assess the world in such a way.
md
January 31st, 2013
10:05 am
“So, basically you take issue with the entire study of history.”
I think a lot of that history includes fighting on one’s home turf when things change drastically. It’s one thing to drive the Japanese out of territory they claimed or from satellite/isolated locations, but quite another when taking on the mothership and a nation full of people…..
As a mentioned above, Vietnam comes to mind…….and we and the Soviets have spent how many years trying to conquer Afghanistan???
Richard
January 31st, 2013
10:05 am
Sorry Kyle, but according to you, this is what the SC said:
“It’s private gift to a school. The fact that the state turns around and gives a deduction on public money owed to the state doesn’t make it any less a private gift.”
Are they friggin joking?
If I go to Publix and buy an apple, I’m paying money to the farmer as well as the supermarket. This is no different.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
January 31st, 2013
10:06 am
The Americans suffered 75,000 casualties on the ground; 94% of the Japanese soldiers died along with many civilians.
If you don’t use public school math, you will discover that the deaths suffered on ONE ISLAND were more than the COMBINED deaths of both Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Not to mention the fact that NONE of our soldiers died in either bombing.
Some times people can ignore the obvious and go off in search of the insane, which is pretty much the basis of the entire democrat party.
Dumb and Dumber
January 31st, 2013
10:08 am
“Ehrhart points out that practice is illegal — and encourages anyone with knowledge of law-breaking by specific SSOs, donors or schools to contact their district attorney.”
A local district attorney does not have the jurisdiction to pursue someone who cheats on the federal income taxes — and even if they did, they don’t have the resources to take away from more important things, like violent crime, etc.
Let’s face it — the authors of Georgia’s law knew it would never be enforced. So folks who want to get a deduction for their child’s private schooling will get away with it — so what a few thousand here or there is not like paying an ethically challenged state senator $150K to take a job on the public trough. Something like that would never happen in Georgia.
Dusty
January 31st, 2013
10:10 am
This organization is new to me. I thought we were talking about higher education contributions, not local schools. But, no, seems it is for local schools. Charter schools? Not only for the needy? Affluent students need it?
I contribute to my alma mater (a university) but none of my children graduated from there. Were my tax deductions illegal if my children had gone there? (Tax money directed to help my children?)
We have the Hope scholarships formed by Georgia government which soon became plagued with average students getting higher grades in order to get a scholarship. (Teacher efforts.) State universities then added non-credit classes to jack these students up to entrance level preparedness. More expense.
Today’s “assistance program” seems to be a tax problem created by complications in the tax structure in order to help a very small percentage of Georgia citizens. Once again, let us not complicate government by evolving it into every little problem of a small number of people. We should be able to manage lesser problems without expensive government assistance.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
January 31st, 2013
10:11 am
Enter your comments here
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
January 31st, 2013
10:13 am
haha, I think the left wingers are mad because 750,000 US soldiers didn’t get killed invading Japan. What a perfect opportunity gone to waste, huh?
SBinF
January 31st, 2013
10:22 am
Whole lotta Whiggish history being thrown around here….
Mary Elizabeth
January 31st, 2013
10:23 am
Kyle, thank you for your response. You are correct that I do not see it the way you do. The national movement toward dismantling public schools for private ones, or for public charter schools which are operated by private corporations for profit, is not a movement that I support.
That movement has deeper political and philosophical variances from my thinking than I can discuss here. However, I believe that I do see what is going on in our era, with long-ranged ramifications for our state and nation. I will say, however, that I support private schools that are paid for by private funds, and that I support a reasonable number of public charter schools that will work in harmony with traditional public schools – and not against them – for the equal benefit of all of the students in Georgia. I will, also, say that I support the improvement of traditional public schools so that all students in Georgia are well-served. I tried to be a leader toward that improvement of Georgia’s public schools before I retired. I continue to share my thoughts, based on my educational background and experiences, of how to improve Georgia’s public schools on the “Get Schooled” educational blog of the AJC, as well as on my personal blog.
Bottom line: I do not support schools in which the primary intent is profit. I saw myself as a public servant when I was a teacher, and an educational leader, in Georgia’s public schools. The hours that I spent, over and beyond the required hours, were freely given by me for the betterment of Georgia students and of their families, and not for additional money for myself. The educational philosophy of serving all students equally well, and not for monetary reasons, is what I want to see sustained in Georgia and throughout our nation.
Profit has its place in American society and I am certainly not against making a profit in the private domain. However, I believe that profit-making does not belong in public education. Moreover, to the extent that personal profit-making already exists in public education, then I believe that it must be uncovered and stopped. I want Georgia’s public schools to continue to place priority on educating all of Georgia’s students equally well, and not on profit. One cannot serve two masters equally well. One has to choose. The public domain has its place in American society, just as does the private domain. There must continue to be a well-orchestrated balance between the public and the private (or between making personal profit for oneself and ones’ family and serving the common good of all and not for profit for ones’ self) as our founding father’s recognized. My life’s choice, and my life’s work, has been in serving, and advocating for, the public domain, which ideally serves the common good.
I must leave for an appointment. That you again, for your response to my post.
PinkoNeoConLibertarian
January 31st, 2013
10:28 am
If we’re going to allow people to direct how and where their tax dollars are spent, why stop with private schools? I want all of my state tax dollars to go to the DOT and used to improve the roads and traffic congestion within a 5 mile radius of my house.
Mary Elizabeth
January 31st, 2013
10:31 am
Correction of grammar: “. . .and not for profit for one’s self) as our founding fathers recognized.”
md
January 31st, 2013
10:32 am
And ME is to be commended for ’serving”, as she seems to give the concept the respect it deserves.
But in my opinion, the problem now lies in the definition of “serve”. In days gone by it meant an individual electing to work for what the taxpayer was offering to pay. Today, they form unions to “tell” the taxpayer what they will be paid to serve……..
MANGLER
January 31st, 2013
10:39 am
Kyle, Folks,
The way that this issue was presented by several news outlets and advocate groups implied that, and in some cases directly stated, an up to $2,500 tax deferment from income taxes specifically into a scholarship for a non-public school would be taken out of the general education fund, dollar per dollar. So a portion of the public thinks that is taking $2,500 out of the State tax money going to public schools and giving it to private schools, regardless of whether or not the person making the deduction/contribution has a kid at the school or not. It’s implied that any GA resident can take tax money directly out of the education fund and funnel it directly into a private school. That perception is what is causing ire. The perception that tax dollars (ie public dollars) are being taken away from public schools which must by law be all inclusive and into private sometimes parochial schools which are not bound by those same inclusion requirements. See how that is angering people?
Is that the case? Is the money being taken, dollar per dollar, out of public schools and being directed into private schools? It can be confusing to read the bill to determine that.
If it is merely being treated as a charitable donation that happens to be going to a private school, then that is another issue entirely.
Hillbilly D
January 31st, 2013
10:47 am
A) I hope Kyle takes plenty of Lysol with him to the Gold Dome.
B) My Daddy was stationed in Japan in 1946-47 as part of the occupation forces. He said that although things weren’t to bad, you still had to be on your toes. They weren’t allowed off-base without a weapon and were told if they were off-base and anybody gave them any trouble, to kill them. He said he seldom went off-base and it was relatively peaceful but you had to be on your toes, occasionally people would take potshots, if they got the opportunity. He also said, that all troop trains traveled with shades pulled down because if they didn’t and people knew U.S. soldiers were on the train, some folks along the way would shoot at it.
Estimated casualties for an invasion of mainland Japan were 1 million U.S and 5 million Japanese. One need only look at Iwo Jima and Okinawa casualty rates for the Japanese, which were over 90%, to know an invasion would’ve been tough sledding.
You also have to keep in mind that the firebombing of Tokyo killed nearly as people as the atomic bomb and that was just one of the firebombing raids. These things aren’t really so cut and dried as some people would like to make them out.
Whole lotta Whiggish history being thrown around here….
In my opinion, both the modern day Democrats and the modern day Republicans are just two different wings of the Whig legacy of the 1800’s. Jefferson’s view of things died long ago; Hamilton’s won out.
ND
January 31st, 2013
10:48 am
As a non-Christian I think it’s absolutely pathetic that you think “converting non-believers to Christians” is a valid cause for a charitable organization.
Henne
January 31st, 2013
10:48 am
Hmm, pretty sure Bookman has presented evidence of this tax-deductible tution being sold as such by schools. I’ll look for it when I have more time.
Dusty
January 31st, 2013
10:50 am
Self-aggrandizement sometimes blocks the view of good intentions.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
January 31st, 2013
10:52 am
bookman has presented evidence, bwahahahahhahahhaha, oh my goodness, thanks for the laugh, my man.
Jefferson
January 31st, 2013
11:08 am
When giving a true gift, you don’t want anything in return. There lies the problem.
Dusty
January 31st, 2013
11:08 am
Hillbilly,
Hamilton was a fine fellow until Burr finished him off in a duel.. Nothing like getting a little huffy about criticisms!
I, too, had a family member in the Navy who entered Japan very soon after the WWII ended. He found the Japanese friendly and courteous and enjoyed the company of a local newspaper man. We have pictures of him standing on ruins at Hiroshima. I guess they were not worrying very much about residual radiation then. I’m sure he took many of the precautions your father did. Being on board ship much of the time might have made a difference.
Truman was a strong president and most Americans supported his decisions about the H bombs. Americans believed in his honesty. That still rings true although some may try to change history to further their own beliefs. .
Jefferson
January 31st, 2013
11:10 am
…. and Let the courts sort it out.
md
January 31st, 2013
11:17 am
Just reduce the tax rates across the board and get rid of all deductions….one page tax forms.
bullwinkle
January 31st, 2013
11:18 am
You’re right, it’s ‘easy to dismiss’ the argument that this is state money. It’s also easy to state that 2 plus 2 equals 183 – and just as wrong. Bottom line, this credit EFFECTIVELY – key word — allows taxpayers to earmark their state income tax payment for one use and one use only. By definition that is money the state would have had for other purposes but does not now. You and Tony Kennedy can write all the opinions you want and that doesn’t change. This is what conservatism has come to, on voting, taxes, schools, you name it – gaming the system to achieve what you can’t through legitimate political means. Sad….
Hillbilly D
January 31st, 2013
11:22 am
Dusty
I’d be curious as to what year your guy was in Hiroshima. Daddy said they passed through there on a train and weren’t allowed off the train because of the radiation. That was in late 1946.
Also, I don’t share your view of Hamilton. Burr was no day at the beach but I think he did us a favor, albeit a tad late.
Hillbilly D
January 31st, 2013
11:23 am
tax rates across the board and get rid of all deductions….one page tax forms.
Good idea but the lawyers and accountants will never let it happen.
southpaw
January 31st, 2013
11:24 am
ND @10:48
As a Christian, I have no problem with Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. trying to find new converts. If they set up charitable organizations that also talk about their respective faiths, that’s a perfectly legitimate thing to do. They’re even welcome to try to convert me, although they won’t succeed. Freedom of religion at work.
Jefferson
January 31st, 2013
11:25 am
Get rid of deductions and go to a progressive rate base on income would be even better for GA.
Lee
January 31st, 2013
11:30 am
Personally, I think that if I send my child to an accredited private school in lieu of a public school, I should be given a tax CREDIT on my state taxes up to the amount the state provides to my local school system. Currently, I think that amount is around $6-7k, but I’m not sure.
The public school is STILL receiving federal and local property taxes, so I think that it would be a net gain for them.
But no, it is not about fiscal responsibility or what is best for the students, it is about the governmental education complex maintaining control of their source of revenue – your child.
My kids are now grown, but I did spend thousands each year on private school tuition AND tax payments in support of the public schools. My choice, but the reason we chose to do so was the sorry state of affairs at our local public schools – and it is not getting any better.
Dusty
January 31st, 2013
11:31 am
Bullwinkle.
Dear heart, you should have mentioned you were a liberal to start with. Then we would know where you were headed.
I would say that conservatives try to achieve their goals through legitimate political means rather than the liberal methods of chicanery. (See Washington for raising the debt level so liberals can increase the 16 trillion $$ debt more & more & more and tell us how good that is).
two riders were approaching
January 31st, 2013
11:33 am
Man, Aesop took a beating today. Probably doesn’t know it yet so that’s cool.
This was designed as a scam, is a scam, and will continue to be a scam. Yawn. Georgia.
md
January 31st, 2013
11:40 am
“This is what conservatism has come to, on voting, taxes, schools, you name it – gaming the system to achieve what you can’t through legitimate political means. Sad….”
As if it’s not a 2 sided game…….EIC?
md
January 31st, 2013
11:44 am
And EIC is the ultimate in game playing, not only is it political in nature, but they had to make it semantically political as well……….but the masses are oblivious to the irony.
SBinF
January 31st, 2013
11:59 am
“Personally, I think that if I send my child to an accredited private school in lieu of a public school, I should be given a tax CREDIT on my state taxes up to the amount the state provides to my local school system. Currently, I think that amount is around $6-7k, but I’m not sure.
The public school is STILL receiving federal and local property taxes, so I think that it would be a net gain for them.
But no, it is not about fiscal responsibility or what is best for the students, it is about the governmental education complex maintaining control of their source of revenue – your child.
My kids are now grown, but I did spend thousands each year on private school tuition AND tax payments in support of the public schools. My choice, but the reason we chose to do so was the sorry state of affairs at our local public schools – and it is not getting any better.”
By your logic, I should have to pay nothing toward educating children, because I have no children. If only I could get a tax credit for all the government services I never use. That would be something!
TGT
January 31st, 2013
12:06 pm
A fine account. Thanks for this Kyle!
yuzeyurbrane
January 31st, 2013
12:06 pm
Nice try at defending the undefendable. First, claim that it was not sold as program to help kids in failing public schools is just a lie. Just read the AJC archives from then. More like a classic bait and switch. Sold as that and then the wording changed behind closed doors and late in the session by our esteemed Rep. Ehrhart to allow parents of kids who were not in that category to be primary beneficiaries. Some of his partners in crime have even been taped telling folks how to scam the system. Second, it would be nice to refer some of the many cases of money being directed to pay tuition of donors’ kids but the same esteemed Rep. Ehrhart put into the law a provision actually forbidding disclosure of such things. To the extent information has leaked out, it seems like the use of funds for disadvantaged families is token at best. None of his new proposals would change things. Sorry to see Kyle get so hung up on tax law type legal technicalities claiming more or less the moral equivalent of “it just depends on what the meaning of is is.” The fact is that people who owe state income tax (which means for starters that they are not poor) can take a dollar for dollar credit for such “contributions”. It has meant $50 million per year removed from the State Treasury; now the esteemed Ehrhart wants to increase it to $80 million! Someone else has to make up that revenue shortfall and it usually means the rest of us. Now, this scheme is highly organized and the schools themselves will guide you through the hoops because the truth is that in the aggregate they amount to a nice chunk of change as a subsidy for private schools. I personally have nothing against folks sending their kids to private schools but I don’t want to subsidize this effort even if it is indirect because of the machinations of some clever CPA’s and tax lawyers. Kyle, you should be ashamed of yourself, especially when so many public schools are still furloughing teachers and have school years cut far below the supposed 180 day standard.
Politico
January 31st, 2013
12:08 pm
“I would say that conservatives try to achieve their goals through legitimate political means rather than the liberal methods of chicanery. ”
And I would say that if you know anything about politics on a local, state and federal level then you were either joking or lying. BS and “chicanery” goes on all day, every day from those of all political stripes. No one has a monopoly and even Stevie Wonder can see that.
bigbill
January 31st, 2013
12:23 pm
@Mary Elizabeth – 10:23 AM – Well said, Mary Elizabeth! Great statement. I believe that you do indeed “see what is going on in our era, with long ranged ramifications for our state and nation.” You correctly observe that this private school tax-credit scholarship movement must be viewed, not just in terms of whether it is but one more good public policy alternative for promoting education in general, as Kyle Wingfield would have us believe, but whether it is in fact just one more destructive prong in the multi-pronged radically conservative, well-financed “national movement towards dismantling public schools for private ones, or for public charter schools which are operated by private corporations for profit…” as you say. And I firmly believe that when one “follows the money” back to the individuals and groups working behind the scenes in state legislatures around the country promoting the passage of these private school scholarship tax-credit laws, people like billionaire radically conservative Betsy Devos and her public school-privatization front group, the American Federation for Children, and the also radically conservative, extreme right-wing legislative clearinghouse group, the American Legislative Exchange Council, one certainly gets a better understanding, a more complete picture, “what is going on in our era.” What’s going on? The elimination of universal, traditional public schools in America.
A terrific New York Times news article on the subject of these private school tax-credit scholarship programs published May 21, 2012, written by Stephanie Saul: “Public Money Finds Back Door to Private Schools,” digs into this as it reports these facts:
“A national network of school choice advocates has been promoting the programs with financing from conservative activists and foundations. The advocacy groups do everything from financing political advertising to lobbying state legislatures. One group, the American Federation for Children in Washington, D.C., has not shied from the rough and tumble of state politics.”
In Florida’s 2010 election, the federation supplied $255, 000 to finance an organization that paid for advertising against Dan Gelber, who was running for attorney general and opposed state financing fro private schools.”
“The ads, mailed to Jewish neighborhoods, called Mr. Gelber “toxic to Jewish education.” His staff found out about them from his 11 year old daughter, who called the office in tears after finding an ad in their mailbox.”
And this: “One big proponent of the tax-credit programs is the American Legislative Exchange Council, a coalition of conservative lawmakers and corporations that strongly influences many state legislatures…”
” ‘ALEC is a huge player in pushing forward a conservative agenda based on the premise that the free market and private sectors address social problems better than the government,’ said Julie Underwood, dean of the school of education at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, who has been critical of ALEC’s education agenda.’ ”
Believe me, Republican Rep. Earl Ehrhart who sponsored the 2008 bill that authorized the SSOs and the tax credits is not operating in a vacuum here. He is carefully following the radical right-wing Republican-Libertarian public school privatization-for-pofit-and-ideology national game plan of Betsy Devos, the Koch brothers and their legion of fellow like-minded conservative Republican-Libertarian billionaires who are using their fortunes to radically transform public education in America by effectively using back-door means to eliminate it. This private school scholarship program is but one of those means.
bigbill
January 31st, 2013
12:30 pm
Here is a link to the New York Times article covering these private school scholarship tax-credit laws, especially the Georgia law, the article entitled “Public Money Finds Back Door to Private Schools,” by Stephanie Saul, May 21, 2012:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/22/education/scholarship-funds-meant-for-needy-benefit-private-schools.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Dusty
January 31st, 2013
12:42 pm
Hillbilly D 11:22
I looked at the WWII pictures in Japan and there were no dates on them. Found some papers and seems he served on the aircraft carrier Shangri La.( Mentioned 100 F43s, Ears ringing. Tiger shot down two planes today. )Left PearlHarbor for Okinawa invasion 4/1/45. Then left for homeland invasion sometime in August of ‘45. Started 1946 @Nagasaki(train ride–40,000 dead). Probably picture of Shinto shrine there. ) . Said he went to Yokahoma March 7.1946. His final separation notice from the Navy was dated 15 July 1946. Also listed were American Theater, European Theater and Asiatic Pacific (2). Lots of papers here with too much info to include.
As to Hamilton, George Washington liked him (so my historical novel said) and that is a good reference. Seems Alexander had an affinity for a “lady” not his wife, but what’s new? Sleazy women and easy men! A never ending “sport”!!!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
January 31st, 2013
12:46 pm
What neither we nor the IRS will receive is official documentation that our church converted X number of non-believers into Christians
But you did get the form telling how many non-believers they burned at the stake?
Dusty
January 31st, 2013
12:47 pm
Hillbilly
My original post @ 11:08 about pictures of WWII was wrong. I thought they were taken at Hiroshinma but found out later they were probably of Nagasaki. Just wanted to correct that post.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
January 31st, 2013
12:50 pm
but found out later they were probably of Nagasaki.
Well, it’s kinda easy to confuse the two, ya know?
bigbill
January 31st, 2013
12:51 pm
Here is a link to an article with detailed information about radical right-wing Republican billionaire Betsy Devos who created the American Federation for Children, a powerful, well-financed proponent of public school privatization which she and her front organization effectuate in part by means of such programs as this private school scholarship tax-credit law (The article is entitled: “The Right’s School Choice Scheme,” by Rachel Tabachnick, The Public Eye Magazine, Summer, 2012):
http://www.publiceye.org/magazine/v27n3/School_Choice.html
The article labels Betsy Devos as “The Four Star General of the Privatization Juggernaut.” Articles like this are, I believe, extremely important because they show us who is actually behind the curtain pulling the financial levers that make laws like Georgia’s private school scholarship tax-credit law happen not just in Georgia but around the country.
Dusty
January 31st, 2013
1:01 pm
Ya had to be there, FINN, to decide. A pile of debris is a pile of debris even with a Shinto shrine on top.
JDW
January 31st, 2013
1:09 pm
I think the issue is one of scale. A $1000 contribution to a charity of my choice reduces my Georgia taxes by $60 while the same $1000 contribution to SSO results in a reduction of my tax bill by $1000…that is a big difference. Seems to me what it does is allow a parent of a private school student to make a contribution directly to the school that their child attends without actually spending any money…what parent doesn’t make that choice and what private school doesn’t encourage them to participate?
This is really another example of our “esteemed legislators” spending tax money stealthily. This way they can directly appropriate state funds to private schools all the while calling it a tax “reduction” and continuing to preach against “gubmint spending”.
JDW
January 31st, 2013
1:24 pm
@bigbill…wow that article is just flat scary…
@Kyle…you should give it a read. You asked for evidence earlier…it seems they have Wyatt Bozeman, an administrator Wyatt Bozeman, an administrator on video saying…
“A very small percentage of that money will be set aside for a needs-based scholarship fund. The rest of the money will be channeled to the family that raised it.”
The other bit that should give one serious pause about the valitdiy of this use for tax dollars is from the headmaster of the Covenant Christian Academy in Cumming, Ga., confirming that his school used texts from Bob Jones University that teach amoung other things that…
“much variety within the human race has developed from the eight people who left the Ark.”
and calls the purported flood
“the reason for both the world’s petroleum reserves and the development of fossils.”
“You have to keep in mind that the curriculum goes beyond the textbook,” Mr. Arnold said. “Not only do we teach the students that creation is the way the world was created and that God is in control and he made all things, we also teach them what the false theories of the world are, such as the Big Bang theory and Darwinism. We teach those as fallacies.”
Nice of them to point out the “fallacies” in scientific thought.
JF McNamara
January 31st, 2013
1:32 pm
Kyle wrote:
“What neither we nor the IRS will receive is official documentation that our church converted X number of non-believers into Christians,..”
I absolutely hate the exemption for church spending for this reason specifically. You get a tax break for trying to buy your way into heaven. What if you don’t believe in that? Where is my exemption? If the money is used in a charitable fashion, fine, but most of the time the Reverend gets a new car and the church begins an endless expansion.
The church exemption needs to be eliminated immediately. If you want to buy your way into heaven or have a large church to justify your ego, do it at full fare.
alex
January 31st, 2013
1:35 pm
@SBin F:The key to your statement is ‘key family backgroung characteristic”…..so if you are able to control for these characteristics, then the public school student will turn out just as well as the private school student..interesting stats dilema, I wonder exactly what number of students in the public schools have these characteristics and most importantly what are they and are they truly independent of the public school….I suspect it is a difficult ? to answer, BUT for either side when you toss in “key family characteristics to be considered”, you’ve got to ask a lot of questions about the data…
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 31st, 2013
1:40 pm
As for claims that some donors and private schools are finding ways to make sure contributions are earmarked for specific students, including the donors’ own children, Ehrhart points out that practice is illegal — and encourages anyone with knowledge of law-breaking by specific SSOs, donors or schools to contact their district attorney.
This has been proven to be exactly what is going on.
Its the good ole boy network in action
On Monday, SEF officials submitted a complaint to the state Department of Revenue that documents in great detail multiple, widespread, blatant and continuing violations of state law regarding the scholarship program. (The full complaint is available here; it makes convincing reading.) It will be interesting to see what, if anything, comes of it.
- Jay Bookman
Sadly I doubt in this hillbilly state anything comes of it.
bigbill
January 31st, 2013
1:44 pm
@JDW – Thanks for your comment. It is scary. And by the way, check out the latest (today’s) pronouncement from billionaire radical right-wing Republican Betsy Devos’s American Federation for Children – Georgia branch – promoting the “creation of a (Georgia) statewide school voucher to help children from low income families attend the school of their parents’ choice.” Here is the link:
http://www.federationforchildren.org/articles/752
These billionaire radical right wing Republican-Libertarians and their wealthy front organizations are always couching their insidious public school privatization proposals in language that focuses on helping “children from low income families” like this one or “low income black families” like many of their charter school proposals. Just as Jay Bookman pointed out in his recent blog about the Georgia private school scholarship tax-credit law, it was pitched by these conservatives and their right-wing conservative legislator-proponents that this would help low income students leave poor, non-performing public schools and gain access to high quality private schools. Yet there is no means test built into the current law. And believe me there will be no means test for Betsy Devos’s Georgia statewide school voucher law once she gets it enacted.But it sure sounds good to be advocating for “children from low income families.” Right! Yet we somehow know instinctively that these school vouchers will in fact be using Georgia state taxpayer funds to help the wealthy and upper middle class students to fund their matriculation at the fancy private schools they already attend. Follow the money. Always follow the money.
Cletus
January 31st, 2013
1:52 pm
“…official documentation that our church converted X number of non-believers into Christians…”
That one could be zeroed out by counting the number of believers converted into non-believers.
Dusty
January 31st, 2013
2:06 pm
Look, fellows,
If you want to read what Bookman writes, go to his blog or some other blog as Kyle suggests in his rules. Thank you.
If you want to be a heathen, nobody is going to stop you. But in the meantime, don’t write a bunch of tripe about churches and those who worship there when you obviously know nothing about them or haven’t been in one in years. What you read in exciting headlines for a newspaper is little of what you hear in church.
The other “stuff” you hear these days comes mainly out of Washington where someone seems inclined to make us more like Cuba, Greece and Spain. How strange that liberals are blind to that condition but can smear any mention of a church as if it means downfall to them. .Tunnel brain waves? . .
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
January 31st, 2013
2:10 pm
bibbill
So, we should get Davos and the Koch Bros out of education, and put back in its rightful place in the hands of the NEA, the teachers unions, and George Soros.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
January 31st, 2013
2:12 pm
But you did get the form telling how many non-believers they burned at the stake?
Haven’t gotten around to you yet, Finn? I’ll send the Koch brothers an email.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 31st, 2013
2:14 pm
If you want to read what Bookman writes, go to his blog or some other blog as Kyle suggests in his rules. Thank you.
Ill read both and post whatever I want thank you very much.
Its always the religious ones who think they can boss everybody around.
Dusty
January 31st, 2013
2:20 pm
Cheesy,
Always out of step!
I did not make the rules here but they are posted.
You CAN read, can’t you?
Dusty
January 31st, 2013
2:25 pm
Hi Rafe,
Glad you are here. Our fantasy friends are fuming today.
While Kyle’s away, they run astray!
ND
January 31st, 2013
2:35 pm
“As a Christian, I have no problem with Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. trying to find new converts. If they set up charitable organizations that also talk about their respective faiths, that’s a perfectly legitimate thing to do. They’re even welcome to try to convert me, although they won’t succeed. Freedom of religion at work.”
Neither I nor any of the rest of the people of my faith have any interest in converting you or anyone else. I respect others’ right to make their own decisions. It would be nice if y’all did the same. True freedom of religion includes freedom from others’ religion as well.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
January 31st, 2013
2:41 pm
Good column on how fallible supposed experts have been throughout history.
http://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/2013/01/23/experts-arent-deities-n1493995/page/2
sailfish
January 31st, 2013
2:47 pm
Ignorance is not bliss…anyone that would compare our gov’t to greece, spain, or cuba, really has not a clue about reality, just head over heels in propaganda and myths. Good luck with that.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
January 31st, 2013
2:50 pm
Hello Dusty, always good to see our poet laureate on board.
Total freedom just scares people for some reason. We are never going to agree about whom should be allowed to fill your little crumb crunchers developing head, so lets let people decide where their children attend school. If you want a secular school with a conservative bent, a religious school, a liberal based progressive school, a military school, or whatever, the parents should decide. There is too much, one size fits all, involved when the government decides for you.
barking frog
January 31st, 2013
2:51 pm
Dusty poet that you are could use divine wind from afar
to blow the cobwebs from your mind and recognize holy
debris from the common kind.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
January 31st, 2013
2:55 pm
anyone that would compare our gov’t to greece, spain, or cuba, really has not a clue about reality,
So saith the Sailfish! And please enlighten us why that is. Too big to fail? I think I have heard that before. Too many natural resources, just like Mexico? Strong dollar based on ………… fiat? Ability to borrow?
Dusty
January 31st, 2013
2:58 pm
Propaganda is for liberals. I’m not one of them
Here are the similarities, SAILFISH
Cuba is a communist country with universal healthcare, somewhat similar in purpose to ObamaCare.
Greece & Spain are almost bankrupt and up to their necks in debt. The USA is up to its neck in debt of over 16 trillion dollars and is now printing paper money with nothing to back it up.
We all need “good luck” facing these circumstances. .
sailfish
January 31st, 2013
2:58 pm
rafe
Read some of your commentary about public schools in general, I think you are a bit paranoid. Your perception of a liberal bias of some sort is not backed up by any kind of honest evidence. Most schools and teachers just deliver state approved curriculum and it seems to me that georgia leans pretty conservative, what’s your fear and to whom are you listening to?
barking frog
January 31st, 2013
2:58 pm
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
Strong dollar based on ………… fiat? Ability to borrow?
…………………………………………………………
Ability to destroy ?
sailfish
January 31st, 2013
3:04 pm
dusty
No, propaganda has no boundries, conseervative ideology is no different. Guess who devised obamacare? Conservatives at the heritage foundation in the 90’s, it has nothing to do with communism, you fail on that point. Why weren’t all you folks screaming about the debt four, six years ago? Once the housing debacle has run its course and if we can get employment back, then the debt will start moving in the other direction, blaming the president and not the congress shows lack of civics knowledge. Congress spends and appropriates, only they can do it.
Dusty
January 31st, 2013
3:05 pm
BARKING FROG I’m harken to ya! But I’m trying to glean what you mean.
Divine wind? It struck Bartow,
It wasn’t divine. It was TORNADO!
barking frog
January 31st, 2013
3:06 pm
I agree with Kyle that this program is beneficial as it
allows parents more control over their child’s education
but if it is being debased it should be more closely
regulated.
Politico
January 31st, 2013
3:07 pm
“Propaganda is for liberals. I’m not one of them”
Bush must have been a liberal and thought you were one as well………… Just saying
“See in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda.”
May 6th, 2005
GWB
As always, you are mostly certainly welcome. Don’t mention it.
barking frog
January 31st, 2013
3:10 pm
Dusty dear divine wind is kamikaze in the east afar
but given here is just a bar to your gleaning of my meaning
and causing you a bit of vacuum cleaning.
Jefferson
January 31st, 2013
3:11 pm
In the end the state suffers for the privilage of the few. A bumpy road in a BMW is still bumpy.
sailfish
January 31st, 2013
3:12 pm
rafe
Greece is a poor example, please study their problems. For starters, they have been very bad about collecting taxes from their countrymen. The IRS is not so leniant. Their population is aging and declining. The most important difference is that they are tied to the euro and do not have their own currency. We, on the other hand are the worlds reserve currency, if you can’t trust ours, then whose are u going to trust? Thought so..
barking frog
January 31st, 2013
3:26 pm
Dusty dear, the tornado here is a typhoon afar
and may seem the same but with inspection
depending on where you are may be blowing
the wrong direction.
@@
January 31st, 2013
3:29 pm
What neither we nor the IRS will receive is official documentation that our church converted X number of non-believers into Christians, or that a charity we supported decreased poverty or sexual exploitation by a quantifiable amount. Or that everyone who benefited from our donations earned less than a certain amount of income.
Couldn’t help but laugh at that one.
Since it’s been estimated that more than 1/4 of those receiving free breakfast and lunch in our schools are doing so illegally, could I just send in PB&Js or cheese sandwiches in lieu of my school taxes?
Farm subsidies beget school lunch subsidies.
SUPERSIZE and SUBSIDIZE! It’s what goverment’s all about.
Dusty
January 31st, 2013
3:39 pm
SAILFISH
As usual, you ignore similarities. Cuba and their healthcare is communistic, So is the purpose of ObamaCare. Healthcare for all paid, supported planned and executed by government. Nothing individualistic about that
The plan for Obama Care may have originated in the 1990’s but it was not passed then because it was not popular. When 50% of citizens became and believed in almost total government care and provision for almost everything, ObamaCare passed. Barely.
Independence has reverted to dependency on government. That’s a very bad move which has gone forward much faster in the last four years.
Congress does spend and appropriate. Now Democrats control the House with a Democratic president and have for four years. The big things like economics and employment are worse. Not even our allies would venture to say that conditions in the USA are better after four years. Our credit ratings are down.
The last two years of Bush’s term was negated by a Democratic empowered Congress. Now the DemSenate supports the Dem president. So where’s the progress now?
Where’s the minor miracle we were promised like the end of war and Guantanamo, the great economic rise, the rescue of housing from Freddie & Fannie’s fiasco, the drop in unemployment, infra structure improvement,the answer to illegal citizens? Where’s the promised miracle?
Nunna Yobinnes
January 31st, 2013
3:41 pm
Ronnie Raygun – it’s a charitable deduction on your federal return and a credit on your state return. Your Georgia itemized deductions are reduced by the amount contributed to the SSO, so you don’t get the double benefit. Comprendo?
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 31st, 2013
3:42 pm
Cuba is a communist country with universal healthcare, somewhat similar in purpose to ObamaCare.
Canada has universal healthcare. Are they communist ?
Norway
Japan
United Kingdom
Belgium
Sweden
Netherlands
Austria
Finland
Denmark
France
Australia
Ireland
Italy
Portugal
Spain
South Korea
Switzerland
Israel
Are they all communist too ??? They all have universal healthcare.
Politico
January 31st, 2013
3:46 pm
Dusty
Are the insurance companies no longer able to make a profit? If so, what is “communistic” about making a profit?
Dusty
January 31st, 2013
3:46 pm
BARKING FROG you pick the mind,
but when it comes down to it,
U R A foggy pollywog.
Michael H. Smith
January 31st, 2013
3:50 pm
And, getting back to the original point, means-testing would represent a level of scrutiny not applied to other charities and their donors.
Add one other item specifically: An “establishment of religion” that our government most certainly does RESPECT – Human Secularism
Point made, case closed. Good work Kyle.
Politico
January 31st, 2013
3:51 pm
“Now Democrats control the House with a Democratic president and have for four years.”
Will some kind blogger explain to Dusty that the House is not controlled by the Democrats and hasn’t been since Jan 2011.
Better yet, I love the laughs so let your ramble. It gets better by the post
Dusty
January 31st, 2013
3:53 pm
POLITICO
Attention: We are talking about the principles of government whether they be free or not.. Business will continue one way or another even if freedom is gone.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 31st, 2013
3:54 pm
State law says that donors can designate which school receives the scholarship money, but not which student. In other words, you can donate $2,500 to your kid’s private school, but you can’t designate it to be used for your kid. That would be illegal.
The schools tell parents, no problem. Just bring in your receipt proving that you donated $2,500 to the program and designated our school as the recipient. Then we’ll just deduct that $2,500 from your tuition payment.
- Jay Bookman
Thats what is really going on. Not that anyone cares.
Politico
January 31st, 2013
3:55 pm
“Attention: We are talking about the principles of government whether they be free or not.. Business will continue one way or another even if freedom is gone.”
Then you know nothing about “communism” based on your own words earlier, but keep swinging………
Maybe take another swing regarding that “Democrat controlled House”
bwhahahahahah
JDW
January 31st, 2013
3:56 pm
@Dusty…”Cuba is a communist country with universal healthcare, somewhat similar in purpose to ObamaCare.”
I see Cheesy already gave you a partial list of those other “communist universal healthcare” countries. It might be informative to note that there are only three developed nations WITHOUT universal healthcare…
US
Turkey
Mexico
Nice company we keep…BTW…Obamacare really isn’t universal healthcare…it is mandated insurance purchasing with a subsidy for lower incomes.
Dusty
January 31st, 2013
3:57 pm
You are correct, POLITICO. The Senate is controlled by Harry Reid errr Democrats. I really had not forgotten the Senate was in disarray. Just a faux pas on my pas!
Michael H. Smith
January 31st, 2013
4:00 pm
Are they communist ?
Nope, but they are mostly socialist. Only by the degree of Marxism can socialism and communism be distinguished as different from one another. Labels and names do matter and content counts.
Oh and the Swiss do not have a “single payer system” or even a government total health-care coverage system. They have a hybrid. Something I would support if the government part was excluded completely and replace by a member owner mutual health-care co op.
Politico
January 31st, 2013
4:00 pm
Dusty
How do you think John Boehner (R) is Speaker of the “HOUSE” if his party is in the minority at this time?
Take a deep breath and engage your brain. It will come to you.
I will assist you, yet again; don’t mention it. His party CONTROLS the House. That is how he can be and is the Speaker. Well of course he had to be voted in by other members of his party who are also in the House, but I think even you are starting to grasp it now.
Politico
January 31st, 2013
4:02 pm
“Just a faux pas on my pas!”
“A faux pas” or something that just happen to fit your narrative? Either way thanks for the clarification.
Have an awesome day
Dusty
January 31st, 2013
4:03 pm
JDW
Did you know that the USA is the leading country in the world? No use to start copying those of lesser nature.
Of course, in another four years, we may be at the bottom of a lot of lists and THEN we can start copying the losers.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 31st, 2013
4:10 pm
Nope, but they are mostly socialist.
I’m sure that would interest the Israeli’s.
Socialism is one of those words the Fox News crowd throws around without really knowing what it means.
Its one of those buzzwords unintelligent people can use and think they sound smart.
Michael H. Smith
January 31st, 2013
4:11 pm
Um, Dusty, have you checked our credit rating lately? Four years might be a stretch?
Oh and by the way, wasn’t Comrade dear leader “obama” supposed to have cut the deficit by the end of his first term in office, according to his own spoken words… just words?
Sooner, hopefully rather the later, people even on the left will begin to realize that cutting the deficit is not just a rightwing GOP political thing.
Michael H. Smith
January 31st, 2013
4:15 pm
Socialism is one of those words the Fox News crowd throws around without really knowing what it means.
Wrong. Go educate yourself or read my posts from this weekend. Marxism with its stages fascist, socialist and communist predated Fox News for a considerable number of years.
Dusty
January 31st, 2013
4:15 pm
POLITICO
Two things for you:
#1–I know all I want to know about communism in one sentence. Communism is the opposite of a democratic republic. I value freedom
#2–Of course I know old friend Boehner(R) who leads the House. He’s a saint putting together good things which he knows the negative Senate Dems will not even read. Which reminds me, I better send a little support donation. Thanks for reminding me.
“Have an awesome day!” Poor Politico! Wants to be nice but is so superficial…
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 31st, 2013
4:16 pm
Sooner, hopefully rather the later, people even on the left will begin to realize that cutting the deficit is not just a rightwing GOP political thing.
When have rightwing GOPers ever been serious about cutting the deficit ?
When they are in power all I see them do is spend spend spend.
They just do it on bombs and blowing people up usually.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 31st, 2013
4:17 pm
Wrong. Go educate yourself or read my posts from this weekend. Marxism with its stages fascist, socialist and communist predated Fox News for a considerable number of years.
Huh?
Its like talking to a wall.
Politico
January 31st, 2013
4:18 pm
Poor Dusty wants to sound educated regarding political matters but never days
See her post today as ample evidence.
Politico
January 31st, 2013
4:20 pm
does, days
hays, maze
Either way she needs work, but I’m sure she is a nice lady when she is not talking about the Democrat controlled House for the last 4 yrs.
MarkV
January 31st, 2013
4:20 pm
Dusty,
I did not intend to get into a discussion of schools in Georgia, but watching the new direction of the some of the posts makes it hard not to comment the utter lack of rationality, such as in your “contributions.”
“Cuba and their healthcare is communistic,”
I do not even ask you what that means, because there is no way anybody could recognize an any sense in that statement.
“So is the purpose of ObamaCare. Healthcare for all paid, supported planned and executed by government.”
Here we go from nonsense to a deliberate rejection of what can be called the truth. You always bristle at my calling something a lie, but what do you call this outrageous invention?
Michael H. Smith
January 31st, 2013
4:22 pm
When have rightwing GOPers ever been serious about cutting the deficit ?
When they are in power all I see them do is spend spend spend.
They just do it on bombs and blowing people up usually
Same could, in point of fact, be said about democrats. Actually you should trouble yourself to learn history: It is the democrats who led this country into every war/conflict but one during the previous century.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 31st, 2013
4:23 pm
Poor Dusty wants to sound educated regarding political matters but never days
Is that considered English ?
If not can someone translate ?
JDW
January 31st, 2013
4:25 pm
@Dusty…”Did you know that the USA is the leading country in the world? No use to start copying those of lesser nature.”
Depends on the subject as to the truth of that remark. As it relates to healthcare why no…no we are not.
The World Health Organization’s ranks the United States as the 37th best health care system out of 191 countries.
National Geographic compares health care expenditures with health outcomes and frequency of doctor visits in 20 other nations. It shows that the U.S. is a major exception, combining extraordinarily high costs, mid-level outcomes and a low frequency of doctor visits.
We rank 34 in infant mortality, 136 in death rate per 1000 and 29th in doctors per capita.
Take heart though we are number one in some areas…
We are number one in obesity
We are number one in cost
And most interestingly we are number one in the percentage of adults that describe themselves as being in good health
My guess is many of us are wearing rose colored glasses.
Michael H. Smith
January 31st, 2013
4:25 pm
Huh?
Its like talking to a wall.
Then your ignorance must surely be that wall. Marxism is very well documented from beginning to end.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 31st, 2013
4:26 pm
It is the democrats who led this country into every war/conflict but one during the previous century.
Yes and they also won WWII
Fighting Nazis if I remember correctly.
Either way I must take my leave of you. You’ve ingested too much kool aid for me.
In the words of Mark Twain.
“Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”
barking frog
January 31st, 2013
4:28 pm
Dusty dear the view is not foggy from here and
I have passed the larval stage and grown a pair
of legs and for beer acquired a taste and know
a mind should not go to waste.
md
January 31st, 2013
4:29 pm
“Ignorance is not bliss…anyone that would compare our gov’t to greece, spain, or cuba, really has not a clue about reality, just head over heels in propaganda and myths. Good luck with that.”
I do believe the ignorance may lie in those that refuse to acknowledge the possibility of which every country on the planet is susceptible.
As for the reserve currency being our saving grace, the not so ignorant would know that there are currently other countries on the planet doing their darndest to make that an unreality…..google it.
Dusty
January 31st, 2013
4:29 pm
Don’t you worry, CHEESY
Politico just made a little faux pas. Aint it awful!! He’ll never be the same.
Politico
January 31st, 2013
4:30 pm
Cheesy
Ask Dusty about the Democrat controlled House
hahahahahaha
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 31st, 2013
4:30 pm
My guess is many of us are wearing rose colored glasses.
100 percent correct.
Every single country with Universal Healthcare gets better results than us for less money.
When put to a referendum it is always supported by the people and renewed.
Following suit here in America is a no brainer for those with brains that function.
Our healthcare system sucks.
And we are going to fix it with our without Republicans.
If we have to drag you guys kicking and screaming this will get done.
In fact it already has. Its over and here to stay.
Michael H. Smith
January 31st, 2013
4:31 pm
Oh brucie chill out. Everyone but your other leftside, “the Laissez-faire liberals”, the ones you so often call NeoCons, know we need a greatly improved health care system but we just disagree about the details and on how to do it.
atlmom
January 31st, 2013
4:32 pm
The thing is – it would be wonderful if public education worked properly. I suppose it works as well as some people would like – but we aren’t educating our children. So people would like to have a choice – ‘funneling’ money AWAY from the public schools – well, studies have shown that we keep spending more and more money – and getting worse results…so well, why do they need more money? they should be able to be fine with the money they have. they still do a lousy job.
Yes, it would be nice if that wasn’t the way it is, but it *is* the way it is. So, some parents have decided to take their kids out.
Why shouldn’t people be able to use some ‘tax’ money for school of their choice? doesn’t that make sense?
The ‘govt’ makes lousy schools – then only people with means can have school ‘choice’? why is that?
Dusty
January 31st, 2013
4:34 pm
BARKING FROG
We know about your taste,
But what mind? What waste?
I think thee doth prevaricate
When you only mean to fabricate.
Michael H. Smith
January 31st, 2013
4:37 pm
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
You actually forgot to remember a good bit but more study and you might begin to grasp some honesty and find the the facts you chose to overlook or would rather not mention.
@@
January 31st, 2013
4:40 pm
Marxism with its stages fascist, socialist and communist predated Fox News for a considerable number of years.
I’ve never understood why liberals refuse to accept historical realities. It’s as if they believe some dictator might just be a nice guy?
Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
I almost find myself hoping they get to experience it.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 31st, 2013
4:41 pm
well, studies have shown that we keep spending more and more money – and getting worse results
Most of those problems are because the parenting isn’t very good.
Children are sent to school to be babysat while the parents work.
In homes where the parents are active and an educational atmosphere is promoted.
Well im sure those kids do well in Public Schools.
Also in public schools one gets a more well rounded social education.
Private schools everyone is going to be exactly like you are. Pretty boring.
This gives a skewed view of the world and stunts growth.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 31st, 2013
4:44 pm
Marxism with its stages fascist, socialist and communist predated Fox News for a considerable number of years.
I’ve never understood why liberals refuse to accept historical realities. It’s as if they believe some dictator might just be a nice guy?
But that has literally zero to do with the original point i was making.
I wasn’t saying socialism in its many forms hasn’t been around forever.
I was saying that most people who casually use the world socialism have no idea what it means.
They are just parroting what someone on Fox News said.
Reading comprehension is fun.
@@
January 31st, 2013
4:45 pm
Whoa!
I didn’t know the federal government offered free lunches for students in private schools. Must be some low-income kids attending private schools somewhere.
Mine’s one of ‘em. Our students are required to bring their own lunch though.
Less waste.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
January 31st, 2013
4:47 pm
“When have rightwing GOPers ever been serious about cutting the deficit ?”
When they were in charge of Congress during Bill Clinton’s term.
Any other questions?
mike
January 31st, 2013
4:48 pm
Kyle, it doesn’t matter how many platitudes you offer, the net result is the same: Individuals are using tax money to send their children to private schools.
The fact that this so-called credit reduces one’s state tax liability dollar for dollar is testimony to this fact. No other deduction reduces one’s state tax liability dollar for dollar.
No, it’s painfully obvious what the intent of the legislature was and is in this matter. It’s to allow taxpayers to circumvent public schools at the expense of other taxpayers.
Dusty
January 31st, 2013
4:49 pm
Oh dear, a day without MarkV is like a day without sunshine. How ya doing?
I saw your concern so i called a bunch of folks in Cuba. (Liar!) They all said they paid not a cent for their healthcare and it was absolutely wonderful and they loved working in the sugar cane fields for almost nothing and would we please lift the embargo as they were tired of eating bananas. (Liar!)
I know this makes you feel better. Me too. Viva de Cuban de ObmamaCare for de peasants!
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
January 31st, 2013
4:50 pm
“Every single country with Universal Healthcare gets better results than us for less money.”
Not even remotely true when you dig into the WHO numbers and realize they use death rates as their metrics for “success”.
ALL death rates, including murders, suicides and accidents.
None of which has anything to do with health care.
Michael H. Smith
January 31st, 2013
4:53 pm
Reading comprehension is fun.
Yeah, try it you might like. However, try some honesty first. Winning WWII does not change a very dishonest statement made previously about the GOP bombing and blowing up people. Your democrats hold the world’s record for that deed.
@@
January 31st, 2013
4:56 pm
Cheez Whiz:
But that has literally zero to do with the original point i was making.
I stopped reading your posts a lo-o-o-ong time ago.
I was responding to Michael’s point.
md
January 31st, 2013
4:57 pm
“I wasn’t saying socialism in its many forms hasn’t been around forever.
I was saying that most people who casually use the world socialism have no idea what it means.”
Might have something to do with the “many forms” aspect……..
md
January 31st, 2013
4:59 pm
“ALL death rates, including murders, suicides and accidents.”
Yep…..the south side of Chicago is a fine representation of our healthcare system, what’s scary is using that agenda and peddling it to the masses…….
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
January 31st, 2013
5:03 pm
Sailfish
I don’t need to listen to anyone on liberal public school education, biggest mistake of my life, I sent two children through the public schools. After getting into the work force and seeing things with their own eyes, they are beginning to see the light, after both voted for Obama the first time. Now, with a little work experience, all I hear is, we believed him and he let us down. Because they were both very bright, they were able to get into good colleges in spite of their poor government education.
If I get lucky enough to have grandchildren, I will pay for their private education, if their parents are not able to afford it.
MarkV
January 31st, 2013
5:03 pm
Dusty,
I am doing just fine, thank you for asking. I am sorry that the same cannot be said about your performance here today.
I can understand that you are not eager to explain the claims you have made. What is that strange animal called “communistic healthcare?”
And then another set of pearls. The purpose of ObamaCare, according to you, is “healthcare for all paid, supported planned and executed by government.” ObamaCare has been the law of the land for some time. When you go do a physician or hospital for a treatment, how does the government “execute” your healthcare?
And all that rage and nonsense because many people want the US to have “universal healthcare.” Just like more than 30 other countries in the world, which includes virtually all developed countries. (Such as Norway, New Zealand, Japan, Germany, Canada, Austria, Finland, Australia, Ireland, Singapore, Switzerland, South Korea, Luxembourg). Are those countries therefore “communistic?” Quite a few also have the similar “insurance mandate” as ObamaCare (Germany, Belgium, Austria, Luxembourg, South Korea, Switzerland).
barking frog
January 31st, 2013
5:04 pm
Dusty dear no fabrication here nor intended,
prevarication, almost offended, but forward
to the waste of a mind unused to see a
Shinto shrine upon debris
@@
January 31st, 2013
5:07 pm
Might have something to do with the “many forms” aspect……..
The U.S. has adopted its own form of socialism.
The conservative objective is not to let it get out of hand (pun intended).
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
January 31st, 2013
5:11 pm
“Just like more than 30 other countries in the world, which includes virtually all developed countries. (Such as Norway, New Zealand, Japan, Germany, Canada, Austria, Finland, Australia, Ireland, Singapore, Switzerland, South Korea, Luxembourg). ”
And how are these countries different from the U.S., MarkV? What DON’T they have that we do?
@@
January 31st, 2013
5:11 pm
Too funny.
Instead of closing down Gitmo, Obama closed down the office whose job was to close down Gitmo.
Dusty
January 31st, 2013
5:13 pm
So Kyle is offering many platitudes. (4:48)
(We need a change here in attitudes!)
I can plainly see what this alludes,
My money aint going to private schools.
Off to attack some tilapia!
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
January 31st, 2013
5:13 pm
Individuals are using tax money to send their children to private schools.
Why is that wrong, the children are getting an education and it is the states responsibility to educate children, right.
md
January 31st, 2013
5:18 pm
” After getting into the work force and seeing things with their own eyes, they are beginning to see the light, after both voted for Obama the first time.”
Mine went to public universities as well as public primaries. I actually think it helped in their overall development as we had/have constant discussions on teachings vs real life situations. It’s been good for them to understand that “teachers” don’t all teach alike and don’t always separate their ideologies from their teachings. That’s a good lesson in life especially when they grew up in a “believe none of what you hear and half of what you see” household…..of course with the expansion in technology that “half we see” number is increasing exponentially as well.
The worst teacher I ever had was in Philosophy and gave half the students bad grades because we didn’t interpret the readings as he did……of course when asked when was the last time he spoke to Socrates it only made things worse………
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
January 31st, 2013
5:19 pm
This ranking of health care by countries is a joke, Cuba is rated above us, yet they are battling an 18th century plague of cholera. How objective is this list.
If Obamacare is so good for us, why are the Unions (Obama supporters par excellence) seeking exceptions, saying they can’t afford the rising premiums?
Dusty
January 31st, 2013
5:19 pm
Dear Froggie,
Just to clear your mind,
There were only three pieces left of a Shinto shrine.
Abiento!
barking frog
January 31st, 2013
5:20 pm
mike
No, it’s painfully obvious what the intent of the legislature was and is in this matter. It’s to allow taxpayers to circumvent public schools at the expense of other taxpayers.
…………………………………………………………………………………………………….
with public schools funded per student how does removal of a student and
his funding to a private school affect other taxpayers other than to reduce
crowding ?
mike
January 31st, 2013
5:21 pm
“Individuals are using tax money to send their children to private schools.
Why is that wrong, the children are getting an education and it is the states responsibility to educate children, right.”
It is the county’s (and/or municipality’s) responsibility to educate children. Any monies diverted from the state’s coffers for private schools must be made up by other taxpayers.
If you want to send your children to a private school, that’s great. Do it with you own money. Not my tax dollars.
barking frog
January 31st, 2013
5:23 pm
Dusty dear the way is now clear
for congratulations and expectations
of further venture into the way
of Shinto and its shrine erections.
Politico
January 31st, 2013
5:25 pm
Can homeowners with no children opt of contributing to public education?
If not, why shouldn’t they be able to do so or are we going to pick and choose when and why funds can be transferred elsewhere?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
January 31st, 2013
5:25 pm
“It is the county’s (and/or municipality’s) responsibility to educate children. ”
Sorry, mike, but the right to an education is in the state constitution.
Nice try.
td
January 31st, 2013
5:27 pm
mike
January 31st, 2013
5:21 pm
“Individuals are using tax money to send their children to private schools.
Why is that wrong, the children are getting an education and it is the states responsibility to educate children, right.”
It is the county’s (and/or municipality’s) responsibility to educate children. Any monies diverted from the state’s coffers for private schools must be made up by other taxpayers.
If you want to send your children to a private school, that’s great. Do it with you own money. Not my tax dollars.
And the money you pay in property taxes for public education should not be charged to you if you choose to send your children to a private school. Vouchers are the answer and let all schools compete for the resources.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
January 31st, 2013
5:29 pm
md
Speaking of worst teacher, I had a sociology professor, that called me in for counseling, because my discussion paper did not agree with his thesis that socialism was the preferred form of government. He gave me an F, for not having an open mind, and suggested I transfer to trade school. That is when I learned that in Academia, it was just better to regurgitate what you were “taught” in class. I did that the rest of the quarter, and made a “B” in the class. Free thought is not tolerated with kindness in the social sciences. I decided to major in a physical science, 2+2=4, no matter what ideology you adhere to.
barking frog
January 31st, 2013
5:32 pm
Dusty dear Abiento! is not so clear and
really makes me wary after consulting
the Urban dictionary….
mike
January 31st, 2013
5:32 pm
Everyone (unless they’re old or disabled) pays local property taxes on their home (and otherwise) and the bulk of these property taxes goes to fund local schools.
The Right, who want to send their children to private schools, want to avoid paying these local property taxes and having to pay for private schools, too. This is the crux of the issue.
All of the schemes, laws, obfuscations, etc. have one and only one goal: to circumvent paying local property taxes.
Here, our legislature has devised a scheme whereby the Right can avoid (by proxy) paying their local property taxes (in the form of a credit on their state income taxes) and still send their children to private schools.
It’s not complicated. In fact, it is really straightforward and simple.
td
January 31st, 2013
5:35 pm
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
January 31st, 2013
5:29 pm
md
“Speaking of worst teacher, I had a sociology professor, that called me in for counseling,”
I had a sociology professor throw me out of her classroom. She was talking about abortion on demand all the way to birth and all I did was ask her “why Kenny Harwick was in jail”? She asked what I was talking about and I said “If a parent can kill their child up until birth then why can not a parent kill their child after birth since they are still totally dependent on the child to live”.
The classroom did get very passionate and tears where being shed on both sides of the issue but that is what I call a real college discussion.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
January 31st, 2013
5:36 pm
Mike, I think Barking Frog answered your question. Less funding offset by less students.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
January 31st, 2013
5:40 pm
who can then reduce their state income taxes by an equal amount —
Mike, wrong again, got nothing to do with property taxes, so come up with some other excuse.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
January 31st, 2013
5:45 pm
td
I try to stay out of the abortion battle, but your example makes an excellent point. I used to work for a lady, big feminazi type, who would scream at her adult kids, that she wished there was such a thing as retroactive abortion. Funny, I think of that a great deal when I see some of these politicians,one in particular, I wish we had retroactive abortions.
mike
January 31st, 2013
5:46 pm
Rafe: if you’re local property taxes are $2,500 and you “donate” $2,500 to one of these “student scholarship organizations” does that or does that not effectively negate your local property taxes.
And, does that $2,500 less in state income tax received by state have to made up by someone else?
Again, this is not complicated. It’s simple.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
January 31st, 2013
5:48 pm
“The Right, who want to send their children to private schools, want to avoid paying these local property taxes”
Nice rant, but not remotely true, mike. No one doesn’t want to pay taxes for their kid’s education. They just want to be able to USE their taxes for their child’s education.
mike
January 31st, 2013
5:51 pm
“No one doesn’t want to pay taxes for their kid’s education. They just want to be able to USE their taxes for their child’s education.”
No, they want to use their taxes for their children’s private (Christian) school.
mike
January 31st, 2013
5:54 pm
I want to state again, in no uncertain terms, that those “underprivileged” on the Southside who were “tricked” into supporting the Charter School Amendment are going to discover in the next few years, just how badly they have been deceived.
All the “promises” are going to turn out to be hollow when they realize that the quality of education their children receive has been reduced by the “profit” the for-profit “education” companies milk out of the system.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
January 31st, 2013
5:55 pm
“No, they want to use their taxes for their children’s private (Christian) school.”
Well, mikey, if they are forced to have their own tax dollars taken from them to educate their kids, why can’t they use them to educate their kids any way they choose?
Why do you think that you have the right to take from them without recourse?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
January 31st, 2013
5:56 pm
“I want to state again, in no uncertain terms”
I don’t think too many on this blog care about your misguided opinion, mike.
SB Atl
January 31st, 2013
5:57 pm
Kyle,
Regarding your statement that if anyone has information that a parent is giving to a school for their child and then deducting it from their taxes, we should go to a prosecutor. You should also read the bill. It is not illegal. The law is intentionally vague to allow just that. Remember that legislator that was recording telling the parents to do that very thing? Of course, you will obviously forget that because it proves my point. Also, if its such an ‘open process’, why are records sealed and why is there not an accountability done to ensure what is intended is actually happening. I don’t trust ANY republican with my child’s education. I haven’t sent my child to private school. I paid out of my own pocket and didn’t ask anyone for help. I could afford to and so can others but there are a lot of parents who have no choice in the matter.
You are so biased you really just disgust my. As for Mr. Aesop’s Fables, he is really a nut case.
mike
January 31st, 2013
6:05 pm
Tiberius: once again, in the face of a logical argument, you descend into nonsense.
The counties and/or municipalities operate public school systems. Everyone who owns a home in a particular county and/or municipality is taxes to support that public school system.
If you want to send you children to a private (Christian) school, you must do that on your own dime.
Again, this scheme that Kyle describes is just a roundabout way to avoid paying local property taxes at the expense of the other taxpayers.
No amount of nonsensical arguments to the contrary can change this immutable fact.
md
January 31st, 2013
6:11 pm
“No, they want to use their taxes for their children’s private (Christian) school.”
And in a supposed free society, shouldn’t that be an option?
Geez, we are starting to sound like China…..send them to the party school, and I don’t mean UGA.
mike
January 31st, 2013
6:15 pm
OK, how about this? Since I don’t have any school-aged children, I feel like I shouldn’t have to pay school tax. In fact, I think the county should do away with their school system altogether and sell of the schools for warehouses or apartments.
Those people who have children should pay for the own child’s education in private schools. If they can’t afford it, their children will just have to do without or they would have to be “home-schooled.”
Of course, those people who make a great deal of money would be able to send their children to the very best private schools.
This way, I’m out of it. I could care less how people educate their children.
Politico
January 31st, 2013
6:47 pm
“I don’t think too many on this blog care about your misguided opinion, mike.”
yet you couldn’t help but respond………………
@@
January 31st, 2013
6:59 pm
No, they want to use their taxes for their children’s private (Christian) school.
If you want to send you children to a private (Christian) school, you must do that on your own dime.
Is the problem with the private part or the (Christian) part?
There are a lot of private schools that aren’t religion based.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
January 31st, 2013
7:03 pm
“If you want to send you children to a private (Christian) school, you must do that on your own dime.”
Your misguided opinion is noted and logged, mike. However, it fails the logic test as well as the common sense test. It can best be summed up as “mike doesn’t like private schools”.
“Since I don’t have any school-aged children, I feel like I shouldn’t have to pay school tax. ”
In some counties, if you are a senior citizen, that is very much the case, mike.
“I think the county should do away with their school system altogether and sell of the schools for warehouses or apartments.”
As stated earlier, the state’s constitution prohibits that practice, so your idea is not only wrong, but unconstitutional.
“Those people who have children should pay for the own child’s education in private schools.”
They do. TWICE. Once in confiscatory taxes and once out of their own pocket. When is it ever enough for you, mike?
“I could care less how people educate their children.”
Obviously not, or you wouldn’t have commented so much on how that education is funded.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
January 31st, 2013
7:04 pm
I see my leg-humper is still on the blog this evening. Wonder why it is that Politico can’t help but to respond to my posts except with a complete lack of substance?
md
January 31st, 2013
7:06 pm
The problem I see in the current system is the removal of relgion from the schools….and I’m a heathen.
There is no reason a system can not be set up to accommodate more than one view and should allow a choice (there’s that darn word again).
The high schools currently have different career paths one may choose to follow and I see no reason why this wouldn’t work with a highly divisive subject such as religion……the problem arises when taxpayers are forced to pay for public school but then are told what will be studied…..
Politico
January 31st, 2013
7:08 pm
“I don’t think too many on this blog care about your misguided opinion, mike.”
The little flailing fella thinks this passes for substance…..
indigo
January 31st, 2013
7:21 pm
Tiberius
I don’t like private(charter) Christians schools that teach:
1. The Earth is 6,000 years old.
2. Men and dinosaurs walked together.
3. Evolution and astronomy are liberal tools of the Devil.
4. Obama is trying to destroy Christian America.
5. The New Testament is the unquestioned word of God.
Do you?
Hillbilly D
January 31st, 2013
7:30 pm
Dusty (if you’re still around)
Thanks for the response earlier. I was just curious. It was Hiroshima that Daddy passed through, and he was Army as opposed to Navy, maybe that explains the difference. Who knows. I’ve never heard him talk about it but just very few times.
And on Washington and Hamilton, if I’d been around then, I’d have been an anti-Federalist. More of a Patrick Henry type, I am.
Bruno
January 31st, 2013
7:39 pm
Speaking of worst teacher, I had a sociology professor, that called me in for counseling, because my discussion paper did not agree with his thesis that socialism was the preferred form of government.
While at HMC, I took a course called “History of the 60s”. I thought it would be a cakewalk, but the professor ended up assigning 300-400 pages of reading per week. In retrospect, I feel that I was ahead of my time insofar as the title of my term paper was “The Failure of The Great Society Programs” (this was in 1980). Though I suspect that my prof was quite liberal, he gave me a high mark. Of course, writing a term paper back then was quite different from today with the availability of the internet. You actually had to go to the library and round up armfuls of books.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
January 31st, 2013
7:53 pm
if you’re local property taxes are $2,500 and you “donate” $2,500 to one of these “student scholarship organizations” does that or does that not effectively negate your local property taxes.
Property taxes are county revenue, the $2500 is deducted from your state income tax refund. You have to pay state income tax to be able to deduct this amount. Yes, if your property taxes are $2500 and you receive a tax credit of $2500 on your state taxes, you have offset your property taxes, but why drag that in. You could just as easily say you offset your car insurance or you offset your mortgage payment for two months, or you offset your family’s dental bill, blah, blah.
Don’t understand where your property tax rant came from. Property taxes probably return more to the taxpayers than any other form of tax, a lot less is lost in the government sieve.
Bruno
January 31st, 2013
7:54 pm
And, does that $2,500 less in state income tax received by state have to made up by someone else?
Again, this is not complicated. It’s simple.
mike–Although there are some fixed costs within school budgets which don’t depend on the number of students per se, the school budget as a whole is directly dependent upon the number of students within that system. As such, every student who leaves the public school system and enters private school reduces the public school’s costs directly. Therefore, it’s a wash.
Simple enough for ya??
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
January 31st, 2013
7:58 pm
I don’t like private(charter) Christians schools that teach:
Then don’t send your children there, problem solved.
Bruno
January 31st, 2013
8:00 pm
More of a Patrick Henry type, I am.
I fancy myself more as the Ben Franklin type. Not terribly handsome, but a charming way with the ladies nonetheless.
Bruno
January 31st, 2013
8:03 pm
HD–Got one for us old fogies:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SubLzRKYuo4
“W.O.L.D.” lol.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
January 31st, 2013
8:11 pm
Most anything that reduces the amount of money the government gets to spend is OK with me and all other Real Americans.
indigo
January 31st, 2013
8:15 pm
Rafe – 7:58
That is not what I asked.
Hillbilly D
January 31st, 2013
8:25 pm
Bruno
Here’s one, on a different track. This is from of my favorite albums of all time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuN2PyQYiTc
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
January 31st, 2013
8:26 pm
Bruno beat me to it, I woulda hung out with Ben Franklin.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
January 31st, 2013
8:30 pm
“I don’t like private(charter) Christians schools that teach: . . . ”
Indigo, if that’s what their parents are willing to put up with (and I doubt many of those things actually occur, except in your mind), that’s still THEIR choice for THEIR children, don’t you think?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
January 31st, 2013
8:32 pm
Oh, and Indigo, Obama IS trying to destroy America, and he really doesn’t care if it’s Christian or not.
Bruno
January 31st, 2013
8:36 pm
I don’t like private(charter) Christians schools that teach:
1. The Earth is 6,000 years old.
2. Men and dinosaurs walked together.
3. Evolution and astronomy are liberal tools of the Devil.
4. Obama is trying to destroy Christian America.
5. The New Testament is the unquestioned word of God.
indigo–I can’t claim any real familiarity with the curriculum of most Christian schools, but I would hope that none of these statements form the basis of their education. In fact, none of those statements are even based on Scripture. Nowhere in the Bible is the age of the Earth stated. The 6000 year figure is based upon a faulty genealogical reconstruction of who begat whom. Per men and dinosaurs, evolution, etc, the Creation accounts of Genesis are given in outline/story form, and were never intended to take the place of more detailed “scientific” reconstructions. If evolution is treated in a critical fashion in any of these schools, then more power to them since it is junk science at its worst. I’ll have to recheck my Bible, but I think most of the Divine Origin references are contained in the Old Testament. The New Testament is comprised of the Gospels, the Epistles and the Book of Revelation, all of whom have human authors. As for Obama destroying Christian America, you will always find some folks who beat the persecution drum within any faith/group as a rallying cry.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcG47CpsU6c
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
January 31st, 2013
8:42 pm
1. The Earth is 6,000 years old.
2. Men and dinosaurs walked together.
3. Evolution and astronomy are liberal tools of the Devil.
4. Obama is trying to destroy Christian America.
5. The New Testament is the unquestioned word of God.
——————-
Name a charter school in Georgia that teaches any of the above. I am not aware of any.
Bruno
January 31st, 2013
8:49 pm
Here’s one, on a different track. This is from of my favorite albums of all time.
HD–Didn’t know if you saw, but I’ve been putting this track up for the longest. It usually doesn’t draw much commentary, but I think it’s an outstanding track. I still have it on vinyl.
Great call.
Bruno
January 31st, 2013
8:57 pm
Alright, got an answer through Wiki regarding Divine Inspiration claims within the Bible:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_inspiration
Turns out that Second Timothy 3:16-17 can be interpreted as conferring Divine Guidance over the whole of the Bible. Otherwise, such claims are contained in the Old Testament.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
January 31st, 2013
9:05 pm
As an Agnostic Constitutionalist, I’m constantly amazed at the levels of interference from both the left and the right; the former in people’s wallets, and the latter in others personal lives.
Bruno
January 31st, 2013
9:05 pm
From the same summer, a song which crossed over to the country stations:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0o9TyxPRU0
Hillbilly D
January 31st, 2013
9:06 pm
Bruno @ 8:49
Don’t think I have ever seen that when you posted it. I always thought it was a great album, especially the way it flows from song to song with no breaks in between. I never saw them but that’s the way they played it in concert, the whole album, straight through.
And for whatever my 2¢ is worth, according to my interpretation of the Bible, trying to calculate how old the earth is, is as pointless as trying to calculate how many people are/will be in Heaven, or when the 2nd coming will be. I’d refer people to Mark 13:32 or Matthew 24:36. People who spend time trying to calculate all that stuff are missing the point, in my opinion.
Numbers-R-US
January 31st, 2013
9:13 pm
I should get a state income tax credit for the portion of my property taxes that go to the public school system and I should be able to specify who gets the taxes.
Bruno
January 31st, 2013
9:14 pm
People who spend time trying to calculate all that stuff are missing the point, in my opinion.
Might be a few more out there missing the point as well, from the snake handlers to the Prosperity Gospel ministers. To me, the real message is a pretty quiet one, which doesn’t need a lot of theatrics to get across.
ODD OWL
January 31st, 2013
9:17 pm
Just more Georgia rebel Republican skullduggery… Somwhere, somehow, someone is receiving a kickback…
Hillbilly D
January 31st, 2013
9:17 pm
Bruno
What’s now called “the Prosperity Gospel” was called “The Gospel of Money” in the 1800’s. It’s nothing new.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
January 31st, 2013
9:23 pm
“Somwhere, somehow, someone is receiving a kickback…”
And you’re willing to provide proof of this on this very forum, ODD OWL?
‘Cause if not, then all you’ve got is uninformed opinion.
Bruno
January 31st, 2013
9:28 pm
One more from the Boss:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU5XVqOXFt4
Ronnie Raygun
January 31st, 2013
10:02 pm
Kyle: “Would it be all-OK for you if the Legislature simply changed it to a deduction, with a maximum allowable benefit that’s the same as the current credit?
Somehow, I think not.”
Wrong again Kyle. I wouldn’t mind if they changed it to only allow tax DEDUCTIONS for contributions to non-profit schools. Those have always been allowable.Even on the Federal level.
But since you’re in favor of giving tax credits for for-profit businesses, I guess it’d be alright if I can get a tax credit or my monthly contribution to Georgia Power.
“I think not.” Truest words you ever wrote.
AT_
January 31st, 2013
11:12 pm
I pay taxes for schools my kids don’t attend and I pay tuition for the school they do attend. I don’t have much sympathy for the argument that this is taking away money from public schools. I’m saving the state a ton of money by not sending my kids to their schools. Give me a break on my taxes since I am paying to educate my own children and yours and then we can talk.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 1st, 2013
12:23 am
Just more Georgia rebel Republican skullduggery… Somwhere, somehow, someone is receiving a kickback…
————————-
Solyndra executives were not Republican cronies…your failed messiah Obozo was their guy and they showed him the love big time.
ODD OWL
February 1st, 2013
1:10 am
Zionism, Christianity and Islam are religious mythology… The Deities are fictional characters… You people who attempt to literalize these holy books are so naive and guillible… Questions; Why do all the characters in the Torah and old testament have Ethiopian names ??? Abrams, Ishmael, Issac, Jacob, Israel, Saul, Solomon, David etc… The Torah was written in the 7th century A.D. in Babylon, using the worn down, degraded Babylonian, Canaanite version of the 30 letters Ethiopian alphabet… Jehovah is an Ethiopian God introduced into Arabia, Babylonia, Jordan and Canaan by Ethiopian colonizers who belonged to the Addities Danasty, the Biblical Children of Add… Centuries later, the Jehovah worshippers political power was superseded by the political power of another Ethiopian sect, the Baal worshippers who persecuted the Jehovah worshippers by sacrificing them… Babylon = City of Baal…
breakfastfor2
February 1st, 2013
3:45 am
no state money should be used for private school education. tax credit will reduce the coffers of the state treasury by the same amount. but then again, you get the government you deserve. Happy rebuilding after the tornadoes ripping through your state, and don’t come asking the feds for money to fix things either.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 1st, 2013
6:53 am
The examples point to families of four and families of five, both of which the IRS expects in its assumptions to pay a minimum of $20,000 per year for a bronze plan.
“The annual national average bronze plan premium for a family of 5 (2 adults, 3 children) is $20,000,” the regulation says.
Never mind the outrageous sticker shock, what’s the IRS doing pricing it up?
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 1st, 2013
7:35 am
“don’t come asking the feds for money to fix things either.”
——————-
The blue states don’t seem to be shy about demanding all taxpayers foot their bills. And whose money is it the feds are spending? If you’re suggesting the feds stop bailing out every irresponsible moocher who failed to purchase the appropriate insurance coverage, more power to you, though.
JDW
February 1st, 2013
7:52 am
@LBB…”The blue states don’t seem to be shy about demanding all taxpayers foot their bills”
Of course it is the Red States that recieve far more in federal funding than they contribute…why thats arghhhhhh….socialism!
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jan/26/blog-posting/red-state-socialism-graphic-says-gop-leaning-state/
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 1st, 2013
8:07 am
No one’s arguing that taxpayer money isn’t spent in red states too. I’m just shocked that the more highly educated, much wiser, and generally superior blue-staters are so pathetic that they need help at all. Reminds me of the French.
Do babble on though, JDW.
indigo
February 1st, 2013
8:10 am
Barry – “more highly educated, much wiser, and generally superior”
Glad to see you’re finally catching on to the difference between Democrats and Reublicans.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 1st, 2013
8:12 am
Highly educated, wiser, and superior folks know how to spell “Republicans”…
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 1st, 2013
8:54 am
The money spent in Red states is going to decrease dramatically as Obama/Hagel implement devastating defense cuts, that will affect employment at Lockheed, Boeing, and all the southern military bases.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 1st, 2013
9:10 am
Rafe – There is plenty of military pork primed to be cut, boondoggles such as wind turbines, algae to fuel fantasy, cutting up a 277 million dollar ship to save a coral reef, mass regulation of contractors, etc, etc.
indigo
February 1st, 2013
9:12 am
Barry – 8:12
I’m glad you posted that.
You see, I’ve been worried that your being the dumbest blogger here might make you sad.
But now, I feel better.
You are able to catch typos.
So, there is something here you can actually do well, sport model!!!!!
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
February 1st, 2013
9:19 am
Highly educated, wiser, and superior folks know how to spell “Republicans”…
They also vote Democrat.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 1st, 2013
9:29 am
indigo: You are able to catch typos.
——————–
I only play “spelling police” with tools who make some sort of claim of intellectual superiority. Usually turns out to be progs.
middle of the road
February 1st, 2013
9:30 am
Why have a tax credit just for donations to private school scholarships? Why don’t we start a tax credit for donations to support public education? Then we could just allocate our own tax dollars to education and say the h3ll with all other things the state wants to use that income tax for.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 1st, 2013
9:31 am
Poor Cheesy, born without a sarcasm detector.
His Nobel-winning messiah, the most intelligent to ever hold the office, can’t get the deficit under $1 trillion, keeps unemployment higher than it ever was under Our President Bush, and has put record numbers in poverty.
Give me dumb ol’ George any day.
Obozo: Inferior to his predecessor.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
February 1st, 2013
9:33 am
Why have a tax credit just for donations to private school scholarships? Why don’t we start a tax credit for donations to support public education?
Because that would defeat the purpose of the private school scholarship.
Which is to give the money to yourself. ( Moochers )
Couldn’t do that with Public Schools.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
February 1st, 2013
9:36 am
The lower the education level of a state.
The redder it is
The higher the education level
The bluer it is.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 1st, 2013
9:44 am
And yet it is the blue states that are so poorly governed that they’re on the verge of fiscal collapse.
And yet it is Obozo who runs the biggest deficits in history, spends more than anyone since WWII, and can’t do a thing about unemployment or poverty.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 1st, 2013
9:48 am
“Why have a tax credit just for donations to private school scholarships?”
——————
Governments often have tax credits to encourage activities that benefit their constituents. Private schools being superior to public ones, the tax credit makes eminent sense.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
February 1st, 2013
9:58 am
And yet it is the blue states that are so poorly governed that they’re on the verge of fiscal collapse.
LOL. Without federal dollars pouring into the very poor South from those Northern states the South would collapse.
Southern States are the takers.
Heck the South wouldn’t even have electricity if the Federal Government hadn’t stepped in and done it for them.
I noticed you didn’t dispute that the more educated one is or the state as a whole the more likely that person or state is a Democrat.
Lesser educated individuals tend to be Republican.
You prove that here every single day.
I say let the South secede. Within 6 months it would be a third world country.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
February 1st, 2013
9:59 am
And yet it is Obozo who runs the biggest deficits in history, spends more than anyone since WWII, and can’t do a thing about unemployment or poverty.
Not in anyway accurate.
But by all means proceed sir.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 1st, 2013
10:03 am
Cheesy agrees with his messiah that we don’t have a spending problem.
‘Nuff said.
Corbett
February 1st, 2013
10:10 am
Here’s an odd thing, though: If people in the blue states are healthier, wealthier, wiser, prettier, funnier, and generally better off than people in the red states, why is Blue America growing so much more slowly than Red America? According to the Census Bureau, the overall population of the 18 blue states grew by 5.9 percent between 2000 and 2010. The 20 red states, by contrast, saw their total population increase by 13.6 percent. (The rest of the country grew by 12.6 percent.) We see the same thing if we look at changes over 20 years. The blue states’ total population increased by 15.9 percent between 1990 and 2010, half as fast as the 32.9 percent of the red states. (The rest of the country increased by 31.4 percent.) As a result of these different rates of growth, blue states accounted for 46.2 percent of the U.S. population in 2010, compared to 49.5 percent in 1990, while the red states’ proportion grew from 28.7 percent to 30.7 percent over the same two decades.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/331097/red-state-blue-state-william-voegeli
Blue schmoos are migrating.
Ironically, the lovable and selfless Shmoos ultimately brought misery to humankind because people with a limitless supply of self-sacrificing Shmoos stopped working and society began to break down. Seen at first as a boon to humankind, they were ultimately hunted down and exterminated by the U.S. government to preserve the status quo.
jeepers
February 1st, 2013
10:21 am
I think the SC decision was a terrible one. I will always believe that this policy is unconstitutional. Regardless of what you say, in essence the state is subsidizing private school enrollment for kids both poor and wealthy. It reminds me of the hope scholarship that started off as needs based before the Republicans changed it to take care of the good little Repub kids who hardly needed it. The long time goal is obviously to do away with the DOE both state and national.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 1st, 2013
10:25 am
Federal spending per state, 2012, minus income taxes paid -
Alaska – $15,197
Virginia – $14,201
Maryland – $13,723
Hawaii – $13,709
I know what Alaska’s problem is but let’s take a wild guess at what Virginia and Maryland have in common, oh, yeah, they border Washington DC.
Has cheezy ever been right about anything?
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
February 1st, 2013
10:27 am
Obozo thinks the economy is doing just fine, because he thinks the government IS the economy.
That’s what the parasite blue staters vote for.
indigo
February 1st, 2013
10:37 am
Barry – 10:27
Another mindless comment.
At least you’re consistent.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 1st, 2013
10:46 am
If the blue states were so wonderful, why are they losing population? Why is labor union membership declining in this utopian non right to work wonderland, faster than their tax rates are rising?
I would say welcome south brothers and sisters, but once they get here, some of them try to make the South just like the place they fled from.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 1st, 2013
10:51 am
Hawaii is about the bluest of the blue, guess they didn’t get the memo, about sending their money to Georgia. Or it could be the Choom Gang doesn’t pay a whole lot of Federal taxes.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
February 1st, 2013
10:56 am
DOW over 14,000 today.
Considering the pile that W left Obama he has done a great job.
Let the good times roll…….
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
February 1st, 2013
10:58 am
A red state like Georgia sends in much less in taxes than they receive back in federal dollars.
The rest of the country is getting tired of supporting you guys.
Moochers.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 1st, 2013
11:06 am
The all time high on the Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA) as of April 7th, 2008 was 14,164 on October 9, 2007.
Let’s see, I wonder who was the president then? Gosh, what was that guys name? Anyway, looks like it only took obozo about 4 years and a giant crash to get even close to whoever that other president was.
Notice how Bush was a failure at 14,000 but now obozo is a wizard at the same plateau? And to think, obozo only had to devalue our currency and empty out the US Treasury to get there.
Has cheezy ever gotten anything right?
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 1st, 2013
11:08 am
http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2012/08/21/top-10-states-receiving-the-most.html?s=image_gallery
Georgia didn’t even make the top ten, cheezy.
But you keep trying and we’ll keep knocking them down.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
February 1st, 2013
11:12 am
Georgia didn’t even make the top ten, cheezy.
They arent far from it.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
February 1st, 2013
11:14 am
Notice how Bush was a failure at 14,000 but now obozo is a wizard at the same plateau?
What was it when he left office ?
Which way was unemployment heading when W left ?
Nice try but you fail once again.
You see when Obama leaves office things will be heading in the RIGHT direction.
When W left they were most decidedly headed in the WRONG direction.
Unemployment was going through the roof and people were talking depression much less recession.
The devil is in the details.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 1st, 2013
11:19 am
cheezy, dear, the stock market is based on speculation of the future. What was becoming obvious to investors at the end of Bush’s 2nd term?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 1st, 2013
11:22 am
“Background checks will never be universal because criminals will never submit to them,” says NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre.
“Good point,” says Jon Stewart. “Let’s pass laws that only criminals will immediately obey. Let’s do that.”
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 1st, 2013
11:24 am
What was becoming obvious to investors at the end of Bush’s 2nd term?
That it would take years to exit the literal Hell Hole Bush, his administration, and the other Cons had dug us into?
W = Worst.President.Evah
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
February 1st, 2013
11:26 am
Senator Rivera?
With that mustache? Of course, the Senate would be a great place for him to utilize all that experience obtained while hunting for Capone’s lost treasure?
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
February 1st, 2013
11:30 am
Republican states, on average, received $1.46 in federal spending for every tax dollar paid; Democratic states, on average, received $1.16.
This gap between political perception and fiscal reality is also reflected in the distribution of tax dollars at the state level: Most politically “red” states are financially in the red when it comes to how much money they receive from Washington compared with what their residents pay in taxes.
Id be careful.There may come a time when the rest of the country gets tired of supporting you guys
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
February 1st, 2013
11:31 am
What was becoming obvious to investors at the end of Bush’s 2nd term?
That he had made an absolute mess of things and it was going to take anyone quite some time to clean it up.
Finn beat me to it.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 1st, 2013
11:38 am
Ten months before Bush’s term ended and the Dow was at 14,162, what a hellhole. Same milestone the obozobots claim makes obozo a prophet.
Spin it on up, y’all.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
February 1st, 2013
11:41 am
Ten months before Bush’s term ended and the Dow was at 14,162, what a hellhole. Same milestone the obozobots claim makes obozo a prophet.
What was it when he left office.
6,500
Worst President Ever
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
February 1st, 2013
11:41 am
Republican states, on average, received $1.46 in federal spending for every tax dollar paid; Democratic states, on average, received $1.16.
Yep, cheezy word for word, straight from, here comes the good part, mother jones.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/11/states-federal-taxes-spending-charts-maps
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
February 1st, 2013
11:46 am
Stock market is doing well because there is no where else to get a reasonable return on your investments. The Fed is pumping and printing and the money has to go somewhere, and with the economy shrinking, interest rates at near zero, people have little choice in investments.
Kyle Wingfield
February 1st, 2013
11:50 am
Cheesy @ 11:30: You keep peddling these skewed numbers for federal spending per capita that don’t take account of where many military bases are located, where many Social Security and Medicare recipients reside, etc.
On another note, there’s a new post upstairs.
Dusty
February 1st, 2013
12:03 pm
WHERE IN THE WORLD IS KYLE? This blog has gotten to be as exciting as watching two old ladies playing pingpongl Cheesy and Finn keep slinging the ol’ Dem stuff back and forth. I think they have condemned everybody from Whistler’s mother to MonaLisa to our beloved Southerners. Duh to such dummies.!!
Anyway, I direct your attention to the much maligned FRENCH who are busy fighting terrorists while we play Raise the Debt at a fast pace. Yep, the FRENCH went right over in poor poor Mali to fight. All Queda decided Mali would be a nice nesting place. Poor Mali, already loaded with refugees from Somalia. Now come terrorists. But the FRENCH settled their hash and took back the biggest city in Mali.. Hooray for the FRENCH!! Fighting those terrorists!!
Do I even hear a a small bit of support from Washington? Nope! Too busy fighting with Republicans and wondering what’s happening in Turkey.
I love French toast and and French fries and now I love those freedom loving Frenchies. Bravo bravo, mon amis. Tres excelanto!!
Dusty
February 1st, 2013
12:05 pm
Whoops! Hi Kyle! Nice to see you…….
CommonSense
February 1st, 2013
2:03 pm
Many schools are using SSO funds appropriately to fund scholarships for underprivileged students who are not related in any way to the scholarship donors and who would not otherwise be able to attend the school. Those schools are the ones, I suspect, who readily make information available about the qualifications and process for awarding SSO-funded scholarships.
Other schools are abusing the SSO system and allowing — or encouraging – technically legal but plainly improper practices such as allowing grandparents to fund scholarships for grandchildren, allowing neighbors to fund scholarships for each other’s children, and the like. Those schools are the ones that are not transparent about their SSO programs.
What could possibly be the harm in requiring some transparency aound the use of SSO funds which would, without special legislation giving preference to persons who make donations to a certain kind of organization, be paid to the state as taxes? Without any kind of transparency or disclosure, what evidence am I supposed to take to my district attorney to convince him to press a case for a violation of the law? If there’s nothing to hide, then open up the process and let the light shine in!
Kyle Wingfield
February 1st, 2013
2:06 pm
CommonSense @ 2:03: I think more transparency, including more than the measures I mentioned in the column, would be a good thing.
CommonSense
February 1st, 2013
3:08 pm
Mr. Wingfield: Since your column today is essentially a defense of the present secretive SSO process and an objection to disclosure of the “bits of data being requested of . . . Georgia’s student scholarship organizations” I encourage you to write a follow-up column addressing the many documented problems surrounding the program including:
- SSOs which encourage current private school students to “enroll” in public schools they have no intention of attending, so that the students can gain lifetime eligibility to SSO scholarships;
- SSOs which award scholarships to students who attend unacredited or otherwise ineligible institutions;
- SSOs which fail to direct the statutory minimum proportion of contributed funds to scholarships;
- Schools which do not disclose scholarship criteria and are free to make awards to existing students, without any regard to financial need, based on recommendations of donors;
- A 2011 amendment to the SSO statutue which, far from encouraging transparency, strictly limits the information the Georgia Department of Revenue can require SSOs to provide and makes it a crime to disclose other information.
Mary Elizabeth
February 1st, 2013
7:12 pm
@ bigbill, 12:23 pm, January 31st
Thank you for your gracious words to me. Much appreciated.