Clinton: Here’s how you ‘patronize’ gun owners without being patronizing

This is just Bubba being Bubba, in a way no other politician today can quite manage. From Politico:

Former President Bill Clinton warned a group of top Democratic donors at a private Saturday meeting not to underestimate the passions that gun control stirs among many Americans.

“Do not patronize the passionate supporters of your opponents by looking down your nose at them,” Clinton said.

“A lot of these people live in a world very different from the world lived in by the people proposing these things,” Clinton said. “I know because I come from this world.”

So far, so good. Sound political advice, and seemingly genuine toward both the donors he’s advising and the people he’s advising them not to patronize. Toward the end of the story, however, we get this:

“A lot of these people … all they’ve got is their hunting and their fishing,” [Clinton] told the Democratic financiers. “Or they’re living in a place where they don’t have much police presence. Or they’ve been listening to this stuff for so long that they believe it all.”

“Don’t have much police presence” — OK, fair enough. That can be said about a number of rural areas. But “all they’ve got is their hunting and their fishing”? That’s not as bad as then-candidate Barack Obama’s bitter-clingers remark (also to Democratic donors) about religious and/or gun-totin’ folk. But it is, in my experience growing up in North Georgia around a lot of people who liked to hunt, an overwrought generalization at best and a bad caricature at worst.

Yet the real kicker here is the part about how they’ve “been listening to this stuff for so long that they believe it all.” Which is, of course, completely different from, say, wealthy coast-dwelling Democrats who have never held a rifle but have heard (on NPR) all about how anything newer than a musket can only be used to murder dozens of people at a time.

Yes, that’s another overwrought generalization. The point is that so many liberals love to be told they’re the only right-thinking people who consider all sides and then come to the only rational conclusion — which happens to be a liberal one, time and again — and no one is better than Clinton at making them believe that’s all true.

Which is, I have to admit, a gift. A rather patronizing gift, but a gift nonetheless.

– By Kyle Wingfield

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192 comments Add your comment

Doug B

January 22nd, 2013
10:58 am

I believe the “stuff” to which Clinton refers is the mantra that we need guns to protect ourselves from the government.

Don't Tread

January 22nd, 2013
10:59 am

“Or they’ve been listening to this stuff for so long that they believe it all.”

How about “they’ve been seeing what you’re really up to and they don’t like it.”

southpaw

January 22nd, 2013
11:00 am

Kyle! You should know by now that no liberal is ever patronizing or arrogant. If you don’t believe me, just ask them.

In all fairness, some would be right to say they’re not the patronizing type. Others–I wonder whether they’re patronizing on purpose, or if they genuinely have no idea how they’re acting.

getalife

January 22nd, 2013
11:07 am

Good advice from President Clinton.

I agree.

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

January 22nd, 2013
11:09 am

We need guns to protect us from the class of folks who voted for Obozo who believe his divisive, uncivil, fear-mongering rhetoric about the productive class unfairly having more stuff. And for that purpose, the bigger the magazine, the better.

getalife

January 22nd, 2013
11:12 am

You cons are freaking out over better background checks.

That is all we will get from this debate.

Logical Dude

January 22nd, 2013
11:12 am

Kyle: The point is that so many liberals love to be told they’re the only right-thinking people who consider all sides and then come to the only rational conclusion — which happens to be a liberal one, time and again

Liberals: The point that so many conservatives love to be told they’re the only right-thinking people who consider all sides and then come to the only rational conclustion – which happens to be a conservative one, time and again.

Me: The point that so many narrow-minded thinkers love to be told they’re the only right-thinking people who consider all sides and then come to the only rational conclusion – which happens to be their own narrow-minded one, time and again.

Conclusion: Quit putting yourselves in labeled areas and look at things logically. Any self-enclosed group that keeps telling itself the same things over and over will be looked at as narrow-minded by the independents and those who look at things logically.

It’s seen by conservatives who claim global warming does not exist, or is not caused by humans. It’s seen by liberals who think that removing all guns is the answer to gun violence. (yes, I picked the most fringed, narrow minds from each side on these examples). Independents know that the answers to each of these is more complex

Good example above, Kyle, for showing Clinton being Clinton.

Del

January 22nd, 2013
11:12 am

Today marks the 40th. anniversary of legalizing abortion. 55 million infants have been aborted during this time and that’s just what’s been recorded and to think the liberal far-left talks about onerous gun control to protect the lives of children. Right thinking people, yeah right.

Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories

January 22nd, 2013
11:24 am

Better check to see which “gun” he’s worried about being “controlled,” it could be the one he waves at all the women that get close to him.

Logical Dude

January 22nd, 2013
11:24 am

From Jay’s Blog, quoting Mitch McConnel’s email to his constituents in Kentucky: “The gun-grabbers in the Senate are about to launch an all-out-assault on the Second Amendment. On your rights.On your freedom.Just the other night, President Obama urged them to act. And then he went one step further, spelling out the 23 different Executive Orders he will take to get your guns.”

And there is the fringe talking about another fringe. Conservatives are scared of a fringe concept that is not actually going to happen. Those 23 orders do NOTHING to take ANY guns away from any law abiding citizen.

Sure, some on the liberal fringe would like to ban and grab guns. But Mitch playing to his constituents about that fringe really makes his constituents sound like those who hear the same thing over and over and do not think logically about the issues.

And the cycle continues. (some days, it’s just too easy).

Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories

January 22nd, 2013
11:26 am

And, if he is talking about bullet launchers, then all you libs need to just shut your pie holes, the man has spoken. Kneel before the wisdumb and give us all a big Duh.

Kyle Wingfield

January 22nd, 2013
11:26 am

Actually, getalife, I think you could see sufficient support on the right for better background checks, including closing the so-called “gun show loophole” (which is neither about gun shows nor a loophole, but whatever). See here for one example of conditional support for the idea. I think it will come down to how we would implement background checks for private sales (that’s what people mean when they say “gun show loophole,” but “private sales” doesn’t sound sinister enough, I guess).

I tend to think background checks for private sales might work if you split the burden of proof between the buyer and the seller. For example, you could require the buyer to obtain (and pay for) a document certifying they were eligible to buy a gun, and then require the seller to check a randomly assigned ID number on that document against a (free) online database that displays only enough information for the seller to confirm the document is legitimate (i.e. not a fake). The fee charged to the buyer could, in theory, finance the operation. Also, in theory, you could allow gun dealers now required to perform background checks (even at gun shows) to use the same system in the same way.

I’m open to criticism of that idea, or alternatives.

JDW

January 22nd, 2013
11:26 am

“they’ve been listening to this stuff for so long that they believe it all”

Pretty apt description I’d say. Seems to me it applies to today’s “Conservatives” on a number of issues…guns, taxes, global warming,” libruls”, spending, “The Good Ole Days”, etc…

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

January 22nd, 2013
11:27 am

Clinton’s semi-auto ban didn’t work, so he has no credibility on the issue. When it comes to manipulating folks, however, he’s pretty adept.

Politics over results, every time…just like the failed messiah Obozo.

Logical Dude

January 22nd, 2013
11:31 am

Mitch McConnel talking to his constituents:
My friend, our freedom is under direct assault. From those who want take your guns.

Bill Clinton talking about Mitch’s constituents:
“all they’ve got is their hunting and their fishing,. . . they’ve been listening to this stuff for so long that they believe it all”

Okay, Bill may actually have a good point there.

Bruno

January 22nd, 2013
11:33 am

The point is that so many liberals love to be told they’re the only right-thinking people who consider all sides and then come to the only rational conclusion — which happens to be a liberal one, time and again

Kyle–You’ve done a great job summarizing the self-righteous arrogance which is endemic in the liberal community. In an honest moment, most liberals will admit that they believe that they are more intelligent AND more compassionate than the average conservative. I’ve gotten several of the Bookman regulars to admit as much in the past.

Which would merely qualify them as being obnoxious jerks in most situations. However, since our country is on the verge of financial catastrophe, it’s critical that our elected officials do what’s best for the country right now. Unfortunately, some kind of feedback cycle has been set up in which the more irresponsible the Democrats behave, the more the public blames the lack of cooperation on the Republicans. And given the political benefits involved with successfully blaming the other guy, I don’t see that trend reversing anytime soon.

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

January 22nd, 2013
11:33 am

Those 23 orders do NOTHING to take ANY guns away from any law abiding citizen.
——–

Why do you ignore Obozo’s legislative proposal, which do?

Every word McConnell said is true.

Georgia, The " New Mississippi "

January 22nd, 2013
11:33 am

Kyle , you started off pretty strong in your opinion I mean “analysis” of former President Clinton’s remarks.Then at the end you write “The point is that so many liberals love to be told they’re the only right-thinking people who consider all sides and then come to the only rational conclusion ” . This is where you miss the mark entirely. Liberals can change and modify their positions based on new facts or a reasonable argument from someone with a different point of view. I DARE you claim your party allows this type of thinking under the Team GOP tent !!!

Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America

January 22nd, 2013
11:35 am

Yesterday, we had James Taylor saying that we should just voluntarily give up some of our freedoms, so that we could implement some gun control for the good of all.

With mind numbed robots like Taylor becoming plentiful, one can assume, we soon will have traded all our freedoms away. You always hear the Libs ffavorably talk about incrementalism, when it relates to gun laws, “oh, we don’t want to take your guns, just implement a few restrictions on the scary looking ones”.

But, mention incremental steps to them about, maybe we could require a 12 year old to get the permission of her parents, before having an abortion, or maybe outlawing 8.5 month abortions, and we get He#l no, you are trying to take women’s rights away.

So, James, He#l no, I am not volunteering to give up one of my freedoms, for you or your collectivist president.

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

January 22nd, 2013
11:35 am

“some kind of feedback cycle has been set up in which the more irresponsible the Democrats behave, the more the public blames the lack of cooperation on the Republicans”
——-

So well said.

The media are in charge of the feedback loop.

Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America

January 22nd, 2013
11:39 am

“they’ve been listening to this stuff for so long that they believe it all”

So, JDW, enlighten us on how you have become more conservative on an single issue, you pick it?

@@

January 22nd, 2013
11:40 am

Having voted for Bill, he do disappoint of late. He just wants to be liked by everyone. He’s uncomfortable with rejection.

A liberal that DOESN’T patronize is a rarity indeed. Funny thing is, the folks they patronize the most are the ones who support ‘em. The folks they fear (criticize) are the ones who reject their patronizing ways.

What do liberals fear the most? I’ll let Hank Jr. clue ‘em in.

I had a good friend in New York City
He never called me by my name, just hillbilly

My Grandpa taught me how to live off the land
And his taught him to be a business man

He used to send me pictures of the broadway nights
And I’d send him some homemade wine

But he was killed by a man with a switchblade knife
For forty three dollars, my friend lost his life

I’d love to spit some beechnut
in that dude’s eyes
And shoot him with my ole 45
Cause a country boy can survive
Country folks can survive

Cause you can’t starve us out
and you can’t make us run
Cause we’s them ole boys raised on shotguns
We say grace and we say ma’am
If you ain’t into that, we don’t give a damn

We’re from North California and South Alabam
And little towns all around this land

And we can skin a buck and run a trout line
And a country boy can survive
Country folks can survive
Country boy can survive
Country folks can survive

Since I didn’t get to comment on the “inaugural” thread, I’ll ask here….

Why do we have second inaugural ceremonies? The first term inauguration is acceptable (barely)…the second is a waste of time and money.

Both, to me, exhibit all the pomp and circumstance of British royalty. Doesn’t seem right. Left? Absolutely.

schnirt

md

January 22nd, 2013
11:42 am

“You cons are freaking out over better background checks.”

I have no problem with background checks, but I hope everyone understands that Newtown would have still occurred. His mother actually passed her background check……

Armed guards are the only answer in a country that will always have arms……..and even that will not stop the crazies.

getalife

January 22nd, 2013
11:45 am

Kyle,

Yes, that will probably pass.

Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories

January 22nd, 2013
11:46 am

Actually, getalife, I think you could see sufficient support on the right for better background checks, including closing the so-called “gun show loophole” (which is neither about gun shows nor a loophole, but whatever).

Dats a fact.

Enforce the laws that are already on the books, particularly in areas like the south side of Chicago, and see what that gets ya.

md

January 22nd, 2013
11:46 am

“Liberals can change and modify their positions based on new facts or a reasonable argument from someone with a different point of view.”

Should a student that chooses to study 24/7, does no partying and makes A’s have to share those A’s with a student that chooses to party 24/7, does no studying and makes F’s? Or should the first student be allowed to keep all their A’s?

Now apply that concept to everything else in life and let us know your answer…….and if you are ready to modify your liberal position.

getalife

January 22nd, 2013
11:46 am

“Armed guards are the only answer in a country that will always have arms……..and even that will not stop the crazies”

It is a good opportunity to hire some vets so they don’t have to work at Wal Mart.

Del

January 22nd, 2013
11:49 am

Liberals can change and modify their positions based on new facts or a reasonable argument from someone with a different point of view. I DARE you claim your party allows this type of thinking under the Team GOP tent !!!

An example of successful brain washing.

Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America

January 22nd, 2013
11:54 am

Kyle, your approach to private sales makes more sense than anything I have heard before. It doesn’t involve a third party, which would increase the cost for the buyer or maybe the seller.

However, any restrictions on private sales of anything is un-American. Requiring one private citizen to investigate another is Orwellian. I have bought a gun from my brother, and the idea that without checking with the government that would be illegal in the future, is appalling. Criminals obtain their weapons through illegal means, and we need to recognize this. Imposing more restrictions on law abiding citizens is not the answer.

Kyle Wingfield

January 22nd, 2013
11:55 am

“but I hope everyone understands that Newtown would have still occurred.”

md: That is a key point here. Are we trying to prevent another Newtown, or to prevent the more routine gun-related deaths? (That’s “routine” from a statistical POV … there’s certainly nothing routine about it for the victims or their families.) If it’s the former — which, of course, is the impetus for this entire “conversation” — then I’m not sure how much of an impact Obama’s proposals would make. Or anyone else’s proposals, frankly; these events are so rare and random that I don’t know how many can actually be prevented.

If it’s the latter, you might improve matters at the margins with some of these proposals. But it’s worth noting there was no political momentum for these measures until they were pitched as solving a different problem. Does that matter in the end?

Michael

January 22nd, 2013
11:57 am

Lil Barry is a good example of what Clinton is talking about. And Dems do own guns but the mantra of the NRA is the Second Amen. which my father and his father and myself have never had to worry about. Fear sells guns and the NRA is the master of fear and very powerful lobbyists. And we all know what lobbyists want. Saw smeone post a Ted Nugent video on FB over the weekend to prove a point and this person has a PHD and used Ted as an example of what is right about gun ownership.

CC

January 22nd, 2013
12:01 pm

I have one statement to make, and this does it extremely well . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tta1qhQZWSE&sns=em

Bruno

January 22nd, 2013
12:04 pm

Liberals can change and modify their positions based on new facts or a reasonable argument from someone with a different point of view. I DARE you claim your party allows this type of thinking under the Team GOP tent !!!

As I said, catch a Lib in an honest moment………

And most certainly nothing condescending at all in your blog handle, Georgia. Just keep telling yourself how much smarter and more compassionate you are than the people you insult.

md

January 22nd, 2013
12:06 pm

“If it’s the latter, you might improve matters at the margins with some of these proposals.”

I’d say that any new rules would still only apply to those that follow rules, so what percent of the problem is coming from law abiding citizens?

MANGLER

January 22nd, 2013
12:11 pm

How is anything Clinton said there wrong or misinformed? He was referring to the “passionate supporters”, not all of them. By “passionate”, he was of course referring to the most outspoken and arguably fringe minded conservative gun rights supporters who view the world as against them, and not the vast centrist majority of conservative gun owners who, like you said, have no problems with sensible regulation. But in today’s world, it seems that the loudest voices come from the farthest fringes, on all sides (better ratings that way).

Logical Dude

January 22nd, 2013
12:11 pm

Kyle: then I’m not sure how much of an impact Obama’s proposals would make. Or anyone else’s proposals, frankly; these events are so rare and random that I don’t know how many can actually be prevented.

Then why is Mitch so darned scared of these proposals? All they do is basically set requests for standards in background checks and looking at making sure gun owners will be responsible.

I agree that these proposals will not stop every single event. what is hoped is that criminals and those disposed to mental health issues will not so easily obtain guns. It’s not the full answer to all the gun violence, but at least it’s a start. And it’s far better than Mitch whining about doing anything about any gun violence.

Jefferson

January 22nd, 2013
12:11 pm

If it bugs ya’ll it has to be true or the right thing to do.

getalife

January 22nd, 2013
12:12 pm

The President set the bar really low on this gun issue but the automatic weapon ban did work.

Bruno

January 22nd, 2013
12:13 pm

these events are so rare and random that I don’t know how many can actually be prevented…… (That’s “routine” from a statistical POV … there’s certainly nothing routine about it for the victims or their families.)

I prefer to look at the big picture, Kyle. We live in a country of approximately 320,000,000 people in which the average life span is about 80 years old (numbers rounded for convenient calculations). Which means that approximately 4,000,000 die per year. In such a context, 20 deaths is pretty insignificant, and shouldn’t be used as a stand-alone motivation to change the law.

What makes it tough is the fact that the media seizes upon these sensational, yet statistically insignificant stories and plays them 24/7 for months, sometimes years on end.

Del

January 22nd, 2013
12:18 pm

but the automatic weapon ban did work.

Not really a ban as fully automatic weapons can still be obtained with a special permit.

indigo

January 22nd, 2013
12:18 pm

Looking at those long lines of people outside of gun stores, I know just what Clinton was talking about.

It’s been a long time since I’ve seen so many dirt road common people lined up like that.
v

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

January 22nd, 2013
12:18 pm

getalife: the automatic weapon ban did work
———-

Not according to the science.

Denier.

Hillbilly D

January 22nd, 2013
12:21 pm

“Do not patronize the passionate supporters of your opponents by looking down your nose at them,” Clinton said.

“A lot of these people live in a world very different from the world lived in by the people proposing these things,” Clinton said. “I know because I come from this world.”

That part I agree with.

The rest of it sounded like a Scalawag to me.

md

January 22nd, 2013
12:25 pm

I recall Clinton getting in a bit of hot water for looking down his nose at……….

Sorry, couldn’t resist.

Kyle Wingfield

January 22nd, 2013
12:28 pm

md @ 12:06: Presumably, there are citizens who now, in complete compliance with the law, unwittingly sell guns to people who wouldn’t pass a background check for one reason or another, and who wouldn’t do so if private sales were subject to the same background checks.

As I said, it might improve matters at the margins.

MarkV

January 22nd, 2013
12:28 pm

“Unfortunately, some kind of feedback cycle has been set up in which the more irresponsible the Democrats behave, the more the public blames the lack of cooperation on the Republicans.”

Talk about a patronizing attitude!

Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America

January 22nd, 2013
12:29 pm

Then why is Mitch so darned scared of these proposals?

Logical, it is called being a politician and playing to YOUR crowd, just like Biden, when he said, “the Republicans want to put ya’ll back in chains”, or Obama when he tells people that the GOP wants America to default on her debt. Why do they do that?

@@

January 22nd, 2013
12:30 pm

It’s not the full answer to all the gun violence, but at least it’s a start.

Roe v Wade was a start and look what that turned into.

The rest of it sounded like a Scalawag to me.

Aye-UP!

Bill would have us believe he’s capable of feeling everyone’s pain at the same time. An opportunist of the “equal” variety.

schnirt

Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America

January 22nd, 2013
12:32 pm

Can you imagine the feuds among friends, when one tells the other, Billy Ray, I can’t sell you that .22, the government says you got caught smoking weed, when you were 16.

Hillbilly D

January 22nd, 2013
12:36 pm

Fully automatic weapons have been banned, without a federal firearms permit, since June 26, 1934. A lot of people are totally missing the point on that one.